Don't look now, Felix Pie is a major league hitter
It's been an up and down season for Felix Pie as he disappointed early and found himself firmly entrenched on the Orioles bench once again typecast as 4th OF. He was sitting at .195/.271/.310 through May but had just 87 AB's through his first 36 games with the Orioles. The lack of playing time continued in June and July with just an additional 34 AB's, but Pie's fortune turned around as more balls started finding holes. But the real turn-around came on August 17th when Aubrey Huff was traded to the Tigers. This opened up 1B for Luke Scott and allowed the Orioles to give Pie playing time as an OF while DHing some of the other OF's; the opportunity was later expanded when Adam Jones went down with a hamstring injury.
Since that point in time Pie's started 10 of the last 12 games and gone 13-33 with 3 2B's, 1 3B, and 3 HR's raising his season line to .271/.332/.442
Sure it doesn't seem like a lot, but he's basically providing league average production (his OPS+ is right around 100), but this comes with the move to the league's toughest division in the AL East. His extra base hit rate has jumped to 8.8% after posting just a 6.9% XBH Rate with the Cubs. This is much closer to his 10% rate in the minors. His .40 BB Rate is mirroring the .39 BB Rate at the minor league level and his BABIP at .315 is very normal.
He's not likely to be a star because of the poor plate command, but at 24 he's already become a competent league average CF in the toughest division in baseball while continuing to play good defense. For $10 Million less a year he could've produced somewhat similar overall value than Milton Bradley had the manager and organization had a little more patience and some willingness to give Pie consistent playing time.
Instead of focusing on all the holes in his swing and weaknesses in his game (the glaring lack of plate command), the Orioles have just let Pie play and use his strengths (good gap power) to become a pretty solid young ballplayer.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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82 comments
Comments
good for him.
I hope he goes far. Maybe someday he’ll come back to play for the Cubs again.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 28, 2009 10:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't look now...
so is Angel Pagan
by IowaCubsWS09 on Aug 28, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really liked Angel Pagan
A lot of what we see in Sam Fuld I saw in Pagan and never understood why we couldn’t find a spot for him on the team.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Aug 29, 2009 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pagán has a history of injuries.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 29, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he had a groin or a hamstring pull
that just refused to heal. He was gone for months, wasn’t he?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 29, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he was with the Cubs, he had some type of intestinal disorder;
Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, or something like that. He couldn’t keep his weight up and ended up on the DL for several weeks.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 29, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crohn's disease
is terrible. It basically kills your intestines, which means that you can’t digest food. Which means that when it gets to your colon… look out.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 29, 2009 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it was something bad...
I think he went on the DL in June and never really recovered the rest of the year.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 29, 2009 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was colitis.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 30, 2009 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And McGehee.
Ok, so that was a cheap shot.
But seriously, what else does a Brewer fan have left in this nightmare of a 2nd half?
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Aug 29, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Small sample size as you say, and the AL east is the leagues toughest division for pitchers not hitters
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Aug 28, 2009 10:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not in terms of park
but in terms of talent…
its a double-edged sword you have to be a better pitcher to get through those tough lineups, so posting a 4.00 ERA in the AL East is far superior than any NL league
the AL East is home to:
Jon Lester
Josh Beckett
Roy Halladay
CC Sabathia
AJ Burnett
James Shields
so on and so forth…
its a tougher league for both hitters and pitchers, hitters just have the benefit of playing in some good parks to hit, against far tougher pitching than any division
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 28, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very True
I wish him well for sure and think he shouldve been given a real shot here….I dont know that theres any real easy division in terms of pitchers faced. Look at the NL West: Lincecum, Cain, Haren, Scherzer, Webb, Kershaw, Billingsley
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Aug 28, 2009 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but again...
a lot of those guys in the NL West are putting up similar numbers against far inferior competition (think Padres, DBacks lineups…)
its a pretty big discrepancy in talent between the two leagues and has been shown in the interleague play records the last few years
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 28, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true again
but I wouldnt expect Pie to be a world beater anytime soon, he’s been hot the past few weeks, which might be his ceiling; simply a part time player who can get hot, but whos athleticism is always an asset….perhaps we shouldve sold high, but we never even gave him a shot to reach that position of strength.
Im really curious to see what the future of the DH will be, it seems that the more fans are attuned to sabremetrics, the more they realize the AL game is somewhat better in part b/c of that extra hitter.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Aug 29, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm very happy for him
But any player in the majors can pull off a string of good at bats in 33 attempts.
Let’s see how he does in September and 2010 before making a full decision.
by ak123 on Aug 28, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that's fair
except looking at the whole 181 ABs, his numbers line up nicely with his minor league performance
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 28, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you.
I think the Cubs gave up on Pie too early.
Or, if they were insistent on trading him, they should have done so two years earlier, when his perceived trade value was higher than “Garrett Olson”.
You realize what that means, right? Pie was, essentially, traded for Aaron Heilman. Ugh.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 29, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs were right to trade Pie.
He might develop in a rebuiding team, but a contender like the Cubs were could not afford to waste a spot in the OF waiting for pie to develop. In fact, it took a trade in a cellar-dweller team to open a spot for Pie to play consistently.
However, I agree with you, Al, that the Cubs apparently got too little in return for Pie. That says more about Pie’s value back then than about the Cubs.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 29, 2009 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering we've wasted a spot with Joey Gathright
this year might not be the right year to say we didn’t have room for Pie
by Illicat on Aug 29, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's always room for Pie.
Especially Coconut Cream!
by Ron Trauma on Aug 29, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie now has twice as many PAs this year as he had last year
which means that when DartmouthCubsFan looks at Pie’s #s he has twice the amount of sample size that we had last year when so many people concluded that Pie was irredeemable.
Since June 24, Felix is hitting .329/.378/.524 in 90 PAs.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a few weeks ago
i caught pie pinch-hitting against jonathan papelbon during an mlb.com live look in. pie ended up striking out but he had a very good 7 or 8 pitch at bat and unlike his time in chicago looked like he had a plan at the plate. it doesn’t surprise me that he is having a torrid august.
by circuitclout on Aug 28, 2009 11:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We should
trade for him…
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
by airweino on Aug 29, 2009 12:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Make Rich Hill the PTBNL in the Rich Hill Deal
Then trade him for Pie
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Aug 29, 2009 1:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was so ready to give you a LSA
for giving Pie a fair shake… something Lou never seemed willing to do.
then a stupid jab at Bradley. Don’t know why I ever expect something different around here. Ugh.
Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave
by Allie on Aug 29, 2009 12:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think he's taking a jab at Bradley.
The point here isn’t that Bradley’s as bad as Pie. The point is that Pie has become as good as Bradley. And that is doubly a huge critique of Lou Piniella who does the opposite of good managers. Lou puts players in positions where they are less likely to succeed. Lou has been unable to transition Fukudome. He was unable to accept Felix Pie for the talent he is. And he’s made the clubhouse worse for Bradley, rather than helping to make Milton more comfortable.
With Felix showing he can do it, the whole LH bat problem is now entirely of Lou’s own making. The amount of talent we have dumped because Lou couldn’t work with them is horrifying. It was documented last year that Hendry and co were very angry at Lou’s mismanaging of Pie. Rightfully so. Note, that Felix didn’t have to learn to bunt and become Juan Pierre to succeed. He’s on the path that will make him Jacque Jones on the low end and Curtis Granderson on the high end. But those are precisely the kind of players Lou undervalues.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
not sure how its a "stupid jab" at bradley?
its comparing the two players…. Pie could’ve given similar overall value for far less cost
how is that a jab at bradley?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting Gameboard's clubhouse issues aside...
At this stage of his career, Gameboard is strictly a corner OF — which forces Dome to play out of position. Pie is a pure CF. Even if they were making the same money, Pie (with about the same OPS) is more valuable than Gameboard since he greatly improves the defense.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 29, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a key point.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 30, 2009 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To their credit, the Orioles have made Pie
Terry Crowley’s pet project this year. This was a good fit for Pie. The Orioles knew they weren’t going to be contending this year, and could afford to carry a relatively useless player for much of the year, rarely playing him other than on a defensive switch. The O’s have praised his work ethic, and it looks like the efforts both sides have put in is starting to pay off.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Aug 29, 2009 6:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why couldn't the Cubs have afforded to carry Pie?
After all Felix Pie potentially brought to the bench the combined talents of Micah Hoffpauir and Joey Gathright. Carrying Pie instead of those two would have given us the roster spot to carry a backup left side infielder. Knowing that Bradley and Soriano would need time off in mid-season, we could have given Pie playing time, especially since he would have been the only plus CF on roster.
No, there is only one reason we did not keep Felix Pie:

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pie
i laughed out loud at the last line above. probably right. lou ran murton, barrett and jones out of town. but we all pull for felix. i hope he has a long career. but the cubs gave him enough chances.
by NOMAR on Aug 29, 2009 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Murton, Barrett and Jones
haven’t exactly been Cooperstown material since leaving…
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 29, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is NOMAR's point. He's being sarcastic.
BCB needs a special early-warning sarcasm detector when NOMAR is doing his stealth-posting.
In response to NOMAR, Lou’s had his hits – players he pegged and helped Jim Hendry see accurately, but he’s also had his misses. The fact that Pie is succeeding now shows clearly that the Cubs did not give him enough chances. He never had regular playing time, and if you aren’t going to give a guy regular playing time, you need to allow him longer to learn and adjust, as the O’s saw.
I may sound like I’m overboard on the cost of giving up on Pie, but everyone else thinks adding Milton Bradley screwed the season. There’d be no Bradley here if we had Pie. In place of the clubhouse presence people think Bradley has, we’d have a young go-getter who was always credited in the minor leagues for having a great drive to win. We’d also have money to spend in other directions (unless all that money instead went to Kerry). We’d have better defense and more team speed. Over half of what the naysayers gripe about this season goes back to last season’s decision to bench Felix Pie in the first week of the season.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we need to see it play out a little longer
Before we call Pie a mistake.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 29, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot longer
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 29, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On one level I can agree; on another I can't.
One level is this – do we know who will be the more productive player over the course of the next three years, Felix Pie or Milton Bradley? No, of course not. Felix could be having a quick surge than will not continue. It happens. Remember, Corey Patteron had a whole good half year before the leg injury.
On the other hand – we never know who will do well and who won’t. We could have acquired Carlos Beltran and he could have suddenly stopped playing well. On the other hand, so we turned down Beltran and made Neifi Perez our CF and Perez lucked into a career year with a .600 BABIP. Would that have been a good decision? It’s about playing the odds, informed by your scouts’ perspectives. Jim Hendry’s scouts told him that Pie could make it, but Perry and Piniella disagreed and sat on Pie’s playing time. I said then and have continued to say that this was a poor strategic decision.
Finally, we have to ask “how long?” We were once told that Pie would never hit at the ML level. Well, that’s not true now. We were told the approach he is taking getting some power out of his talent would never work. Well, that’s not true either.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DGU...
It’s 10 games (none of them against a team that would be in the playoffs if the season ended today) for a team that was out of it in Spring Training
Forgive me if I’m not calling the plaque makers at Cooperstown yet.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
by Worf on Aug 29, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh - I see, you and I are looking at different #s
I see why. DCF cited Pie’s record over the past 10 games. But, to me, DCF’s bigger argument was about Pie being productive now on the 200 PA body of work he’s had this season, which includes his rough start, but also includes his line of .345/.389/.575 in 36 games since June 24.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie is another example...
…of the Cubs not handling a players development correctly and recognizing what they have.
It still boggles my mind they were grooming the guy to be a 3 hole hitter in the minor leagues. With his speed, he should have been taught to use that to his full advantage and if he had power, that would come in time. The fact that he rarely tried to bunt for a base hit was astounishing to me, because the guy could literally fly. If he had this ability in place when he was called up, it would have increased his value tremendously, and would have bought him more time to adjust to major league pitching.
Pie was mis-managed through his development and his skills/weaknesses were not maximized or worked on properly. This is one of my major reasons that Jim Hendry should not be running the baseball organization. They didn’t know what they had with Wells either, and if they had a clue on Blanco (or even Scales) they probably could have avoided the freaking Miles acquistion.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Aug 29, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Loud, sustained applause.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Aug 29, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right on one level but looking more and more to be very wrong on another.
I agree that the Cubs didn’t recognize what they had in Pie, but you and I see very different things when we see Felix Pie.
With every HR that Pie hits out of Camden Yards your argument that he needed to be forced into a top of the order hitter mold becomes less and less believable. The problem is that Lou doesn’t like low-patience hitters like Soriano-JJ-Pie. I tend not to like them either, so I understand the bias. The problem is that you have to accept what they are and let them be what they are down in the order, even if they have the speed that makes you want them at the top of the order.
Pie didn’t need to buy himself more time. We had all the team he needed to adjust last season on a 97-win team if only Lou had been willing to give Pie that time and sacrifice one, maybe two wins.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank god...
someone else realizes the mistakes were made in trying to fit a round peg into a square hole
if you want to criticize the Cubs for not emphasizing a better approach at the lower levels, i suppose that’s fine.
But the guy had a TON of success at those levels doing exactly what he’s done now. To suggest the very thing that made him so good in the minors should immediately be changed when he got to the majors is pretty absurd. Unfortunately that’s exactly what the Cubs tried to do.
Pie had been a gap power hitting CF who derived much of his value through SLUG, not OBP. Once he got to the majors the Cubs decided since he had a smaller frame and was fast, he needed to become something different than he’d always been. This was the biggest mistake the cubs made.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton has been good.
I can’t believe teams keep cutting him loose. He is a quality major league player.
by cubsforever on Aug 30, 2009 4:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe because he is really isn't as good as you think?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 30, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it's because he has a 2B bat and a DH glove?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Aug 30, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?????
Pie has put up “league average production” in the last 10 games and you suggest he has finally become a big league hitter? Wow, things are really getting crazy here.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2009 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
League average production only comes from big league hitters.
DCF didn’t say Pie is an All-Star. DCF said he’s a big league hitter, something that has repeatedly been claimed would never happen.
And league average hitting is very valuable when it comes from 1) a top defensive talent, 2) a player who also runs well, and especially 3) a player who is making the league minimum.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, where to start?
1. I didn’t imply that DCF said he is an all star, so one strawman down.
2. ten games and a few dozen productive ABs does not make anyone a big league hitter either.
Maybe he turns into a productive big league player and maybe he doesn’t, but it is way too early to assume anything.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to avoid strawmen, then
tell us what your definition of big league hitter is.
I was working under the impression that it meant someone who can hit at the big league level.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the strawman comment was in response to your misrepresentations of what I posted
You posted "DCF didn’t say Pie is an All-Star. " I never said or implied that DCF said anything of the sort. That strawman was all yours.
As for Pie being a big league hitter,, I’ll call him a big league hitter when he shows he can do it for at least a season, something he has yet to do.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 30, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, now how would you define "season"?
How many PAs would put him in the running to be called a “major league hitter”? Serious question.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 30, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would 400 meet with your approval?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 31, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not seeking approval.
I’m asking for clarification – thanks.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Aug 31, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
league average hitting
over 181 ABs, not just the last 10 games
the numbers i quoted for SEASON LONG numbers
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
181 Abs at this point
are not exactly season long numbers are they?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 29, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are....
for Pie…
are they the equivalent of a full time everyday player? no not yet, but they are HIS season-long numbers so far
as opposed to the 10 games (which are FAR better than league average for what its worth), which was suggested i was citing above
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no matter how you try to parse it
Pie has yet to show he can be a big league hitter. Doing it for part of a season proves very little, and that is all he has been able to do to date.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 30, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this was the same argument
used when people said he couldn’t hit major league pitching when he was in the minors…
he hasn’t been given the opportunity to provide enough data to appease you, so i guess why don’t you let us know when its been long enough
pie just hit another jack today
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 30, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to jump on the Pie bandwagon
be my guest (I am sure there is lots of room), but it is way too early to declare him a big league hitter. Lots of hitters who never amounted to much have good stretches, maybe even a good season, but that does not make them good hitters.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 31, 2009 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dood
DCF has been on the Pie “bandwagon” (snicker) for years. He was running it when I joined.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 31, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roommates at Dartmouth???
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Aug 31, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Sep 1, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had no room for Pie
He wasn’t contributing to victories. If we had carried him in the lineup down the stretch last year, people would’ve written the same thing they now write about Aaron Miles: automatic out, even if he’s the last man off the bench he has no place on the roster.
I wish him well, but he either should’ve stayed in the minors a lot longer than they let him, or be traded like he was.
by Orval Overall on Aug 29, 2009 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
joey gathright
was the reason we had no room for Pie?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 29, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright was a huge mistake.
But you also notice he was cut relatively quickly, and at a time when Pie was still horrible. So what then? They should’ve carried Pie, and stuck it out with him even if he played like Gathright to start the year? You know as well as I there would’ve been 100 posts by late April on how the Pie experiment was over, and it was time to trade or DFA him.
by Orval Overall on Aug 29, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
or maybe, if he’d gotten a chance to actually play regularly, he could have developed in Chicago the way he developed in Baltimore.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 29, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where were we going to play him regularly?
And, unlike the Orioles, we can’t afford to wait around for someone to develop if we want to be a contending team.
by Pre on Aug 29, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
precisely. He should've played at Iowa as long as they could keep him there.
Once he was out of options, they had no choice but to deal him. He was a liability to a playoff team, and needed playing time they couldn’t give.
by Orval Overall on Aug 29, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What you're missing is that the O's didn't give him regular playing time either.
They were just willing to be patient and now they are reaping the rewards.
I don’t get how Pie could have cost us more than a win or two at most last year had we decided to give him 200 PAs last year, and then not have burned his option, too.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope Pie does well
At some point before the 2008 season stated, I proposed a scale by which Pie’s could be compared:
1. Junior Griffey
2. Andy Van Slyke
3. Garry Maddox
4. Paul Blair
5. Henry Cotto
At the time, I thought that Pie had the potential to become Garry Maddox. Sadly, he’s been more like Henry Cotto, although one must remember that Henry did have a 10+ year major league career. If Felix can hit a little more, he can become the next Paul Blair.
But thinking that he’s going to develop into a plus major league hitter over the next three years, even with Terry Crowley at his side… I don’t see it.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Aug 29, 2009 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
bottom line is Hendry
hit the friggin’ panic button when he realized that Lou would not play Pie full-time.
Hendry is just not solid is his roster management. I wish Felix well.
MPH73 is spot on too—he is a failure of our system in that one of his tools (immense speed) was never developed to become a skill. He could have easily been taught the bunting game, but wasn’t. If yiou are a shitty bunter with speed, you get to 5 of 10 execution—that’s a .500 average! In addition it brings in the corner spots opening up bigger holes in the IF. Needless to say, I am down on our system and have been quite some time.
by socalbob on Aug 29, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's address the bunting issue.
Torii Hunter has 22 bunt attempt ABs in over 5000 career ABs.
Curtis Granderson has 20 bunt attemp ABs in almost 2500 career ABs.
Felix Pie has 10 bunt attempt ABs in over 400 career ABs.
Felix Pie is showing, as he showed in the minors, that he is in the model of Torii Hunter and Curtis Granderson. Do you fault the Twins and Tigers systems as much as you fault the Cubs system for handling those similar players the way they did?
If the Cubs had had Granderson in their system and had told him to stop hitting for power – something he could do – and start trying to become a table-setter – something he wasn’t doing so well, dropping his ceiling from what he did become to a Michael Bourn type player, would you really see that as a good thing?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Aug 29, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you continually try
to make everything “all or nothing” in your rebuttals. You address the bunting issue with a discussion about power? You don’t even address bunting or the art of it. Why can’t the Cubs develop a well-rounded player who can hit, hit for average, drive balls in the gap, use OB skills, and steal a bag? Pie has all those tools, no? Why would you say I am asking him to become a Michael Bourn clone?
I will tell you Pie is a faster runner than either Granderson or Hunter. And he doesn’t come close to having their power either. They are more dis-similar than similar. I never mentioned a thing about “power” or telling Pie to forget about it.
Furthermore, Pie was a raw Dominicano who never had the luxury of playing in H.S. learning the game of baseball. Hunter was a top draft pick and H.S. All American baseball player. Also, Granderson had the fortune of playing 3 years collegiately—raking almost at a .500 clip his junior year. Again their backgrounds are not even close.
Let’s address your numbers—can you tell me how many of those bunt attempts were bunts for hits versus a sacrifice? I doubt it. And, if so, do you have success rates of bunting for a hit?
I said his tool of SPEED needed to be turned into a SKILL. One of the skills of speed is bunting and another would be basestealing. Two things Pie is not very good at. So the Cubs failed to take his raw tool (SPEED) and turn it into a useful baseball skill(s).
You don’t simply tell players to stop hitting for power either. I wasn’t suggesting turning Pie into Luis Castillo, just simply saying he could have developed another tool in his bag. Dropping an ocassional bunt for a hit can curtail prolonged slumps. This is one of those things that cannot be measured by stats. It’s an “inside the game” thing that a player with his speed should have been coached/taught to execute. Heck, even faking a bunt gets fielders to move and change positions—that’s a good thing.
I don’t see how Hunter and Granderson were even brought into this.
by socalbob on Aug 29, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Mostly for all the points you brought up about bunting. You don’t have to bunt every time up for it to be an effective weapon. I wonder how many more base hits Willy Taveras has past a diving third baseman who was playing on the grass… or how many fastballs up in the zone he has been thrown in a “bunting situation.”
Same thing goes for stolen bases. More fastballs for the hitters, rushed deliveries… all indirect results of having a runner who has the ability to steal a base.
Good pitching beats good hitting, and vice versa.
by tibbelkrunk on Aug 30, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good for Felix.
I hope he continues to be productive in baseball.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
by sue369 on Aug 29, 2009 2:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But he's always be Felix PIE
to Tony Bruno on Fox Sports Radio. I nearly rear-ended a guy when he thought he was a tasty dessert last week on his unsually- non-entertaining program.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 29, 2009 8:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like
Pie.
"I’m not going to allow Al Yellon to flush this thing down the crapper without a fight." (BLOU)
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 29, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too wish Pie well
I enjoy watching him play when I get the chance. It is nice to see an enthusiastic baseball player!
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
by Tekboy on Sep 1, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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