What's Wrong With Carlos Marmol? Cubs Win 4-2, But The Question Stands
by Al Yellon on Aug 4, 2009 7:41 AM CDT
in Recaps
580 comments
We should all be happy this morning, after the Cubs' 4-2 win over the Reds put them in a first-place tie with the Cardinals.
Right?
Well, sure, but there are still these nagging questions: "What's wrong with Carlos Marmol? Why can't he throw strikes consistently?"
Marmol, closing last night in place of Kevin Gregg, who has a tired arm and might get today off in addition to his day off on Monday, had an agonizing 36-pitch ninth inning. His boxscore line shows 23 strikes in 36 pitches, but that's a bit misleading. Seven of those "strikes" were foul balls hit by Alex Gonzalez after Marmol had run the count to 0-2; it's difficult to know how many of those balls were actually in the strike zone and how many Gonzalez was swinging at to protect the plate and just get a piece of.
Gonzalez ripped Marmol's 11th pitch to him down the LF line for a RBI double before Marmol got Willy Taveras to hit a ground ball to Derrek Lee to end the game.
So what's the problem? It can't be physical, because there's no trouble with Marmol's velocity; he was flinging fastballs at 96 MPH last night (at least according to the WCIU graphics), but he had no command of many of them. Marmol's out pitch has always been that electric slider; it almost seems as if he doesn't trust the slider as much as he wants to blow people away with the fastball. This happened for several weeks last year, too, but eventually Marmol figured it out and went back to his 2007 level. This year, he hasn't really had command the entire season, walking nearly one an inning and hitting 10 batters. The 10 HBP, incidentally, leads the National League and no pitcher who is a full-time reliever has ever led a league in this category.
Let's hope he figures it out. Soon.
Marmol's shakiness nearly ruined another outstanding outing by Randy Wells, who might have had a shot at his first major league complete game. He threw a few too many pitches in the seventh inning and then with one out in the eighth, Gonzalez hit a home run off Wells. Lou decided to leave him in to see if he could get out of the inning; he got one more out but after another hit, John Grabow came in and finished off the inning.
That gave Wells 102.1 innings pitched in 104 team games, just short of what he'd need to qualify for the league leaders list. With a 2.73 ERA after last night's game, if Wells were on the leaderboard he'd rank sixth in the National League, just behind Wandy Rodriguez and also trailing Chris Carpenter, Tim Lincecum, Matt Cain and Dan Haren -- a very impressive list of pitchers. Presuming he makes his next start five games down the road, that will be the Cubs' 109th team game, so he'd need to throw at least 6.2 innings to make the league leaders. He has thrown that many innings in 10 of his 16 starts, so I'd expect he'll break onto that list with his next outing, and also has to now be among the favorites for the Rookie of the Year award, especially now that Colby Rasmus isn't playing every day.
Wells didn't pay back Aaron Harang for the three-run homer Harang hit off him at Wrigley Field (although he did get his first ML extra-base hit, a double); he left that revenge to Mike Fontenot, whose three-run shot in the second inning turned out to be enough to win the game. Fontenot also singled. The Cubs could have used some extra runs given Marmol's troubles and not getting more than one run in the eighth inning despite loading the bases with one out is a bit concerning.
Kosuke Fukudome continues to perform well from the leadoff spot -- since he was moved there more or less permanently on July 4, he is hitting .302/.408/.488 in 104 plate appearances, much more in line with what we had hoped for when he signed his four-year contract before the 2008 season. His season line of .271/.388/.443 gives him a .831 OPS -- raise that another 30 or 40 points, entirely doable, and you've got a very productive major league outfielder who also plays plus defense. So Lou -- leave him there. It's working.
Onward. This series is eminently sweepable. Go for it.
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this week we get
to cheer for the me….
cheer for the me……
root for johan santana’s team.
Fortunately, Santana will start one of the two games vs. the Cardinals...
… tonight.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Might be a pitchers' duel.
Joel Piniero vs. Johan Santana.
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime.
The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 4, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
I've got no problem cheering for the Mets.
I’d cheer for the Devil and his six hundred and sixty six children if it meant the Cubbies getting into the playoffs.
The Mets
aren’t even in my top three hated NL teams anymore. Playing them only six times a year really dulls the hatred.
I guess they are still my most hated NL East team, although the Marlins are close and might pass them this year.
I hate the Marlins a ton more
but I’m only 21 so I don’t remember the days of Cubs-Mets hate
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
FWIW, I wouldn't have guessed that
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah I really do a good job of hiding my feelings about the Marlins
sarcasm
PS I hate those bastards
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Actually, I meant that I wouldn't have guessed you were 21
I thought you were older
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll take that as a compliment
wise beyond my years I suppose. That or bad Cubs baseball has aged me at an accelerated pace.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Probably a bit of both
But yes, it was meant as a compliment. (Not that 21 is a little kid, mind you)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Those of us old enough
can remember when the Mets were the Cubs #1 rival. Well, maybe the Cardinals were still the #1 rival, but the Mets were close and I certainly hated the Mets more.
I had some Met fan friends in college. We would play whiffle ball and there would be a Cubs team and a Mets team. The game would start with the Mets team announcing “Now batting for the Mets, Lenny Dykstra” at which point the first pitch would go straight at the batter’s head.
It was kind of a tradition.
Don't fall for that Josh
They are still part of the evil empire. I don’t care if the newspaper listings show them in a different division. I don’t care if we only play them six times a year. I know who they are. Unlike the majority of YOUNG folks here , I actually have no particular hatred of the Brewers but I am still confused as to why we play American League team so often and the Astros are annoying but not worth hating. I will always hate the Cardinals, Mets, White Sox & Yankees in that order. Beyond that the Dodgers . I got over hating the Reds and Padres at various periods.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 4, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I started following the Cubs in the early 1980's
So I don’t have the same Mets hatred anymore, either. Josh is right; for those of us that don’t remember 1969, it’s not the same now that the two teams don’t play as often.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't remember 1969 either
but I remember the Dwight Gooden, Ron Darling and Darryl Strawberry Mets. And the Cubs had some titanic battles with them.
Oh yeah, and Lenny Dykstra. He still deserves to get beaned. (Did you read the story about how he’s the boss from hell now?)
Didn't see the Dykstra story - do you have a link?
And we remember the same era Mets. The July/August 1984 battles were fantastic.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Here
is a direct link to the GQ article that I was specifically referring to, although those others are good too.
Thanks Josh
I remember there was some other references of Dykstra being an epic tool, but I couldn’t remember where they were from.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
That cab fare story is . . . interesting
Yeah, he still deserves to get plunked
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
(I figure no point in commenting on the other stuff....it speaks for itself)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't have any memory of 69 and I actually rooted for the Met in 73
( what did I know) but those 80s Mets got my wrath and living here for almost 20 years has only made it stronger.
I had a hard time when Maddux was on the Padres but I do respect Bud Black. The fans still suck and hopefully after
this season Maddux will work for the Braves instead of the Padres ( Sorry he won’t work for the Cubs, still hates cold
weather). I did actually become a fan of the Braves when Maddux was there when most everyone else hated them
Best run and fairest organization in the sports world but their fans did not deserve them. Of course I hate the Yankees
and White Sox and unlike a lot of other fans I still love the Red Sox.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 4, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Borderline at best
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 5, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
See, growing up in Wisconsin
the Brewers were my most hated team when they were in the American League.
But I still hate the Mets more than any other NL East team. That’s something. And I’d still bean Lenny Dykstra.
"Hey, Cubs suck!"
Yeah, I remember those days. When the Brewers were good and the Cubs . . . not so much.
I don’t feel bad for those mopes now.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
true
but I will say I have never seen a group like Padres fans. They relish the fact that they got over on us in ‘84. Amazing. I was at the Bear-Charger game and when Tommie Harris caused the fumble near the goal-line and the Bears recovered, I had some knuckle-head say, "that’s ok, but we still kicked the Cubbies ass in ’84!" I just laughed at the jackass.
Mets still take the cake—can’t stand Carter, Darling, Gooden, Straw, Hernandez, Backman, HoJo, McReynolds, Orosco. Boston just had to lose to that group—jeez.
San Diego
is one insecure town. They’d rather not be LA than be San Diego.
I’ll say it before anyone else does—San Diego has to be constantly reminded to stay classy. It’s something they struggle with.
there's
certainlky an inferior complex. I love what you said—they’d rather not be LA, then be San Diego.
You ever been able to go to a Charger-Raider game at the Q? Unreal.
No, I've never done that
I have heard the stories, though, and watched some of those games on TV.
What are they like in person?
I have been to five Cubs games in my lifetime.
The Cubs' record in those games: 5 wins, 0 losses.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Aug 4, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
well, pretty angry
between Raider fan and Charger fan. They average, I believe about 100 arrests, per game. There are fights in all parts of the stadium and then there is a bevy of activity in the parking lots immediately following the games. It’s mainly jersey-wearers and face painters squaring off.
The language is most definitely R-Rated. I give up my seat to my partner for that game every year. I just do not feel the need to be in that environment.
Yeah, when we played the Pads last series..
The Padres announcers brought it up every game, showing clips. Since they got trashed by Detroit after and won 3-2 in a five game series it makes me shake my head they relish beating us so long ago.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
they had to
they were celebrating the 25th Anniversary of them losing the World Series, errrr, I mean the 25th Anniversary of them going to the World Series when the Cubs were in town.
The new team to hate for me...
Is the Marlins. I can’t stand that team, and I’m glad we only play them two series. Heck, it even spilled over to Alex Gonzalez during that at bat last night. I caught myslef screaming at the TV, “Would you miss, you friggin’ ex-Marlin?!”
It’s probably mostly because of 2003, of course, but I think at least part of it is jealousy that a team that’s run that way can win every 5-6 years, like clockwork.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
hahaha, I do the exact same thing!
When a guy keeps fouling off pitches against the Cubs I yell “C’mon [expletive], strike out already!” Nice knowing I’m not the only one.
When that's happening
I sometimes hope that baseball had the beer league softball rule of fouling out after a certain number of pitches…
What's wrong with Marmol?
Well, premium set-up men most often have a short span of goodness. As the appearances and innings pile up the effectivness usually goes down. You would be hard pressed to identify top set-up men in baseball who have sustained a period of goodness for more than a few seasons in a row.
For whatever reasons the same can obviously not be said for top closers. Their sustainability levels are much greater. One assumption is that the closer role has natural insulation built around over-use in terms of appearances and innings racked up.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Stone was saying yesterday on the Score,
he falls off way to hard towards first base to stay consistent with his command. I have no idea how his elbow withstands that sort of stress. It would help if he threw more first pitch fastballs to get ahead in the count, and why didn’t he climb the ladder with Alex Gonzalez? You don’t see Marmol throw too many high heaters trying to get guys to chase upstairs.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
He tried to climb the ladder & throw High Heat to Gonzalez.
He missed badly. Ended up being belt high fastballs that Gonzo fouled off. His control is way off right now. No one knows where his pitches are gonna be.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
It was interesting
watching Hill behind the plate for Marmol last night for the exact reason you say that no one knows where his pitches are going to go. It looked like Hill really dug himself in (more so than when Wells was pitching) getting ready to lunge to either side of the plate to catch the pitch.
"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg
I'm sure it's a terrifying experience catching him.
Especially with the tying runs on base. Set up low and away and you need to be ready to catch it high and outside. Set up high and you need to be ready to block something low and in. Nightmare.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I want to see
his fastball at the letters. I know he can’t locate right now, but I just don’t feel like he uses that pitch enough.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
Until he can locate that is going to be a problem.
He tried 2 or 3 times to Gonzo and just couldn’t get it high enough. Kind of Lucky that Gonzalez fouled those pitches off.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
Gonzalez became Ted Williams last night...
I get that Marmol’s out pitch is his slider but wasn’t there a stretch last night where he threw like 5 sliders down and away in a row? What happened to challenging batters with his 97 MPH fastball on the inner half?
The sun will shine in '69
That's what Hershiser was saying.
And since Marmol was rushing his delivery, his arm slot was all over the place, causing him to hang sliders and fail to locate the fastball for a while, too.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
he can't command the fastball. that's why you see him go to the slider almost exclusively.
he has much better control of the slider. the fastball is all over the place. once he gets in trouble, he’s going to the slider. and it’s a nasty pitch; the trouble is when a hitter sees it five times in a row he’s more likely to hit it. and marmol makes a lot of mistakes with it as well. he overthrows and his delivery is inconsistent, but he has better control with the slider.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Aug 4, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
hasn't he always done that though?
The slider is about the only thing he can sort of guess where its going… He’s never had great command.
well, he had better command than this last year.
if we want to chalk it up to overwork, that’s fine. but, i still think it has more to do with his flailing mechanics. i guess i’d like to see him. take a few mph off the fastball in order to add some consistency. but, i’m not sure that’ll work. if he remains wild, i don’t mind him just throwing the slider with a fastball here and there for effect. even when he throws it a lot, slider is a weapon.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
He's gotten more erratic
but his command never struck me as great. Maybe he is overworked and thats why his mechanics are a mess…
It's also scary...
because the slider is designed to LOOK like a fastball, so the guy swings while the ball moves away from him. But when the batter knows it’s not a fastball (b/c Marmol refuses to throw them), then his out-pitch is next to worthless….
Very frustrating. I kind of wish they’d send him down to clear his head and work on his mechanics.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 4, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if it's his release point or mechanics but
by now he sure has me worrying about him getting it together. You gotta hope Gregg can stablilize so we have at least one of them dependable. I thought Lou put Gregg in there last time solely because he blew the previous save, wanting to get him right back in there…I sure hope that “dead arm” stuff has some merit after seeing him blow two saves back to back as a result. Unless we get someone else good this year we’re gonna need both of these guys to turn it around.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Release point
is a function of good mechanics. His are bad/inconsistent, therefore his release point is likewise.
many things
1) Horrid mechanics. Pretty obvious to anyone watching. Release point varies from ab to ab, and sometimes from pitch to pitch. You can’t fall that far to the 1st base side and maintain consistent command. 2) Mental- Slow the hell down and “reset” before the next pitch. He gets in such a hurry to throw the next pitch that I’m almost positive he isn’t putting the thought or focus into each and every pitch, and that’s essential for a pitcher in high-leverage situations. 3) Overuse ? BLou is right. Shelf life for a high-stress setup man is pretty limited. Add in the innings he’s piled up over the last 2+ seasons and it’s a valid point.
by justpassinthru on Aug 4, 2009 8:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Overuse sure could be a factor here.
I hear people say every once in awhile (and surely after he has a few succesful outings) that despite his wildness he is close to the lead in holds this year. That simply is true to me cause Lou pitches him so often, now with Gregg struggling I hope Lou keeps that in mind cause I think Marmol can use some rest too. Keeping Marshall on the shelf for both games seemed a crime to me…
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Scot Shields
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Using that logic
all closers should have the same ‘short span of goodness.’ Please name some set-up men that you are referring to.
Scott Linebrink has been a quality set-up man for a number of years with the Padres, Brewers, and White Sox.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 4, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
and of course Mariano Rivera...
Trevor Hoffman and a few others. Though it might the case that the majority of guys fall off. Of course, that’s true of every position…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Aug 4, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Re: What's wrong with Marmol?
His amazingly poor/inconsistent mechanics are what’s wrong with him. Front shoulder flies open early, his arm angle changes at times, rushes his pitches, falls off the mound uncontrollably (albeit many hard throwers do, he comes close to falling down too much), etc. The list is too long for this guy to be reliable enough to be a closer. Guzman is looking like a better prospect as Marmol consistently can’t find the zone.
Now I'm not a pro scout but....
It seems to me that the opposing teams have learned that if you have a little patience with Marmol he will throw a ball or 2 and then get then get concerned and eventually groove one
If the world didn't suck we would all fall off.
Agree
A buddy and I have been saying the same thing all season. Why would you ever swing at one of Marmol’s pitches??? Just stand there and let him walk you. You can’t hit him (.169 batters avg) and he sure as Hell can’t throw strikes.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Or stand there and let him HIT you
Marmol is just rushing everything – his tempo, his delivery. ESPN caught a great shot of Lou screaming for him to “SLOW DOWN, SLOW DOWN, SLOW DOWN!!”
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
by DKT on Aug 4, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he waited far too long to go out there
Getting Rothschild out there before at least could help. I was hoping Koyie would calm him down and seeing no one go to the mound seemed an error in judgment to me. Koyie being the back up catcher I guess you can expect that, the manager has got to do something in my eyes besides yell in the dugout.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
This is where
Marmol needs to go back to the drawing board and concentrate and throw a first pitch strike, throw the heat on the first pitch. Curious how many first pitch sliders Marmol throws. But Marmol and Rothschild needs to work this crap out.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
He can't
just “throw a first pitch strike.” I’m pretty sure he’s trying to, but he’s just so wildly inconsistent with his mechanics from pitch to pitch that it’s just not concentration. The way he flies open with his front shoulder, he can’t find a consistent release point. He’s got to “concentrate” on staying closed in bullpen sessions so it becomes muscle memory on the mound in a game. He’s going to struggle as long as he continues to pitch like that. Verdict’s out in the scouting report with this guy…take till you get a strike, he just might not throw one.
2 things:
he does “fly open” and it has nothing to do with “staying closed”—why? Because his front shoulder is pointing to the ground before he delivers. Look at the dreadful picture Al posted for this thread. The only place he can go with his front shoulder is to the left and fly open. Telling him to stay closed will not make a difference. He needs to level off his shoulders as his foot beings to plant—then he can stay closed. Watch Angel Guzman or Big Z versus Marmol and you will see the difference I am speaking to. His wildness from flying open is also because he gets under his pitches from opening too soon. His slider is missing the downward bite and his fastball is flat with a lot of run on it.
there are no bullpen sessions because he has to be available every day to pitch. Staters yes, but not relivers. He can attempt to simulate mechanics while tossing before a game, but to implement a change at this point of the season would be difficult.
You are absolutely correct—he has no release point whatsoever.
Maybe I wasn't
too clear with what I intended to articulate, but I agree wholeheartedly with you. I wasn’t saying telling him to stay closed would affect much change, but finding a way for him to actually do it (to which you described quite well) was my implication.
And there are indeed times when the bullpen coach during games and the pitching coach in between games will work on pitcher’s mechanics. They don’t just figure this stuff out on their own. That’s what I meant as a bullpen session, not necessarily a 50 pitch simulated game.
Randy Wells...
TOO MUCH GOOD STUFF…he has been fantastic!
And yes, who can take any more Carlos Marmol. On August 3rd, he is agonizing, can you imagine if we have to endure that in early October. Cub fans around the country will be dieing of heart attacks!
Lets take two more in Cincy!
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
Randy Wells has been flat out excellent
An advanced age “non-prospect” who comes out of nowhere and knows how to pitch. I’ve concluded that Wells is no flash in the pan. The man knows how to pitch, is smart and has decent enough stuff to get major league hitters out en route to producing quality starts. He looks like a solid # 4 type starter that is a real asset.
"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)
Toronoto returned him, right?
After drafting him via Rule V?
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
Inexplicable, but we thank them for doing that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What about his inning count?
Not sure of his history, but will Lou need to moderate his innings any these last two months?
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Could Wells
in October conceivably be our set up man? His stuff is pretty good but he won’t start in the playoffs, not a chance unfortunately.
Why do you say that?
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Right.
Right now I think I might start him ahead of Harden.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree. Harden is erratic and unpredictable.
Wells is anything but. He would lay a perfect platform for a playoff game IMHO.
Hey, Harden is always good...
for five solid innings!!! :)
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I just don't think Lou has the stones
to go with a Rookie in a 7 game series. He would go Z, Demp, Lilly, Harden bumping Wells to the pen to mop up after Harden.
I can only hope the Cubs have the problem
of deciding which starter to put in the bullpen for the playoffs.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
First place is great, but it’s not over yet.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Could Harden be a set up man if the team can make October?
I know relieving doesn’t do anything positive to him healthwise, like Woody, but he has an effective arm and may be better than other options.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
As discussed before, Harden's arm has not responded well to pitching more than every 5 days
back when the A’s tried it. That said, I wouldn’t mind having him waiting in the bullpen to relieve any of the starters immediately if they are showing any signs of what happened to Dempster last year. Almost like a starter in waiting.
I thought it was that limiting his outings to one inning didn't
make any difference to his arm health and therefore he was more valuable as a starter.
Hopefully, someone else can weigh in because you may be right.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Wells...
I would have Wells starting Game 1, 2, or 3 of a playoff series for sure. Other than Zambrano, who would you rather have out there in a big game? If I were managing the Cubs, there is no way Dempster would start a game in the playoffs for me.
Normally coaches do not like pitching rookies in a playoff series, seems to be rare.
But this season has been far from normal and Wells isn’t exactly your typical rookie. Depending on how healthy the starters are at the end of the season I can see Z, Lilly, Harden all going first…Lou does seem to use the hot hand. To me you gotta get Wells in there and I agree about Demp, until or unless he shows me something different consistently he hasn’t earned a start yet for the playoffs.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
They even worked with him on his
sinker which has helped become a more complete pitcher. I heard him on a radio interview and he could not say enough good things about the Toronto pitching coach.
I kind of makes you wonder what goes on in the Cubs lower levels in regards to development?
Besides not teaching fundamental baseball
Not too much.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Everyone's been waiting for him to be figured out and be sent back down to the Minors.
It ain’t going to happen anytime soon.
Last night was his 3rd start against the Reds...
and still performed extremely well…but you’re right, its a game of adjustments.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions
He did an excellent job of adjusting from his
three game stretch where he went to the zoo on some batters after getting big outs.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Couldn't agree more!
He just looks like he knows how to pitch!
Even Orel Hershiser, last night, was going on and on about him and his sound mechanics. I almost feel more confident with him on the mound to get a win, then guys like Dempster or Big Z.
He is like or Chad Billingsly or Clayton Kershaw to this Cub team.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 4, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Love Big Z
but honestly, I’m always waiting for him to loose it and explode. He could always throw a no-no, but if its a huge game and Z is on the mound, I’m really nervous that day!
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
#4? - right now he is the Ace
If the playoffs started next week I’d have Wells in game 1. Z, Demp, Harden, Lilly are all less consistent than Wells has been this year. Lou needs to make decisions based on current performance rather than past history or individual ego.
by BatCubFan on Aug 4, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do I hear a new nickname?
Randy “AM/PM” Wells? Because with “AM/PM”, you can never get too much good stuff?
I like it!
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Z in the playoffs
I would not start Z in Game One. He’s too emotional and volatile. I’d go with Wells. Of all the Cubs’ current starters, he’s the one I’d expect to respond best to the pressures of a playoff game. Hard to believe I’d ever be saying this about a rookie, but I think many of you will agree. He’s cool under pressure.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Wells
It’s possible he’d break down, a la Maddux in the first game of the 1989 playoffs, when he was just 23. But Wells has a better temperment now than Maddux had then. It’s hard to remember now, when Maddux has the reputation as such a Zen figure, but he was fiery back when he started and often let his emotions affect his pitching, as Z does now.
I haven’t seen that happen to Wells, and remember, he’s not a young sprout. He’s actually on the older side for a rookie. I doubt Lou would start him in Game One, so we’ll never get a chance to see how he’d perform, but I do feel comfortable with him doing so.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
last season we tried starting the
“hot hand” in game 1 and it was a failure. I think Lou understands that Z is the man to hand the ball in game 1
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
lets just hope he understands
when to go to the bullpen….
no matter who he hands the ball to
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
and that those bullpen arms do their job
Instead of letting mark reynolds hit 2 run homers.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
+1
He may not be a typical rookie but I don’t think it would be wise and it’s academic to me because I don’t think Lou would even consider it. You see a number of times during a year when a rookie pitches well during a season then freaks out when playoff time comes. With Ankiel being the ultimate example of that. Start him in a lower spot and at least some of the pressure is off him to be the best.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The Eighth wasn't that productive.
But earlier in the season, there were times when we’d leave all baserunners stranded.
I don’t care if we win scrappy against the Reds, I don’t want us to impress anyone. I just want us to stay atop of the NL Central and leave all our impressing for the playoffs.
It was nice to see DLee
rip that ball for a double in the 8th inning.
However, very disappointing to see Soriano whiff at a ball way outside. right before that pitch, I was sitting on the sofa telling my wife that the next pitch would be a slider low and off the plate, and that Sori would swing and miss. I mean, he is so predictable in those circumstances. He always chases those stupid outside and low pitches for strike three.
I guess we had his nice little week-and-a-half hot streak, and now it is back to the old Soriano
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 4, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Funny
Had almost the exact same conversation in our house! Saw him go opposite field early in the game for a hit, but then he got too excited with the bases jammed up in the 8th!
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions
That is funny!
I guess if people like us can see the hitting tendencies of Soriano, just imagine what all the other teams have (strategy-wise) regarding him.
Seems like with a 2-strike count on him, he would simply move a little closer to the plate, so that he can reach those outside pitches better.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Aug 4, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions
All the strategy you need to know for Sori:
NEVER throw a fastball. EVER.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
by Fishbone2 on Aug 4, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
the real key is to move the ball off the plate away.
he’ll hit a breaking ball every once in a while.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Aug 4, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Or Bounce it...
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I had the same conversation at home that CubFanSince1970 had last night.
When Soriano was hitting with 2 strikes, I got up, approached the TV screen and pointed where a slider should be pitched at to strike out Soriano. And sure enough, that’s what happened. I assume the other teams are doing that. It’s only with less than 2 strikes or when the pitcher cannot locate the breaking ball that Soriano connects. So, I expect him to be a bust against good pitching. Anyway, he is getting more hittable pitches in the 6th spot in the lineup, so he will have his share of hits against normal pitching.
by Fraggin Judge on Aug 4, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
i must say
i’ve actually been really impressed with the increased patience soriano has shown since the break. he’s has been giving some quality at bats and is often ahead in the count. he’s still susceptible to that breaking ball, especially with two strikes, but he has been much, much better. and i didn’t really think he had it in him.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
Fuld
To me, this is one of the times when you go to Sam Fuld. A pitcher like Weathers knows Sori’s history all too well, and you are in a spot where you really just need some contact to have a chance to score. You are also bringing in a better defensive OFer for the last two innings.
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
There's no way they pinch hit for Soriano in that spot
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
quite.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions
really
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Hmm yes lets pinch hit Sam freaking Fuld
for Alfonso Soriano with the bases loaded and one out. That seems like a sound baseball decision that surely wouldn’t produce worse results.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You go to Fuld to replace Sori in the 9th
in the field but at bat.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 4, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Does screaming at the tv
“don’t swing: it’s going to be a slider low and away!” count as having the same conversation? Because that’s what I was doing.
by mykalmorgan on Aug 4, 2009 10:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
By Einstein's defintion, both you and Soriano are insane.
“doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
and also all Cub fans.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Damn, that means this 8 inch knot in the middle of my forehead is from
hitting it against a wall and I’m not becoming part unicorn.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Gotta agree with you swl.
That said I keep doing it, with the team and Soriano batting. I’m a little encouraged he’s hitting a few opposite field hits…it may be exactly as posted before he’ll only do it with less than 2 outs but at least it’s an improvement.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
How has he not learnt to avoid this?
It must be a crazy reflex action he just cannot control.
But I believe Alfonso won’t go back to being as cold as he was in the first half. Here’s hoping I’m right!
Only Soriano
can work himself out of a walk. Weathers was pretty wild and was already ahead 2-0. It was disappointing as usual to see Soriano help them out with a K.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Aug 4, 2009 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sure was.
The Reds announcers were complaining how walking the first batter Weathers pitched to made it hard for him to locate and it sure seemed he didn’t know where it was going until the end. I was hoping Sori would get to strike 2 before swinging at anything, a walk sure would have been nice to see.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
My feeling is if we make it to the playoffs....
We are going to be a whole lot more focused on the goal at hand without the expectations of the best record in the league and the first time jitters of 2007.
This team is going to surprise a lot of people come playoff time and nothing could be better for a club so weighed down by expectation that to fly under the radar ( to some degree).
I would love to agree with you, but...
so much pressure is on any Cub team that even sniffs the playoffs (well documented…), that I can’t hardly imagine our team not stiffening up again. Honestly, we need a few ’idiots" like the Red Sox had in ’04 that are frankly probably too stupid to get caught up in the hype and nervous. Seriously.
“Don’t think, just pitch.”
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I know what you're saying,
but don’t you reckon if the Cubs scrape in ahead of the Cards the pressure will be less than what it was last year (the 100years BS, best record in the NL)?
I believe so. If things keep going on as they are the focus will be on who will play the Yankees in the WS: Philly or the Dodgers. The Cubs story isn’t as interesting this year and I think the media attention, at least, will be diminished.
I get what you’re saying about dumb guys though. You imagine there is a lot more going on in the heads of articulate guys like Derek Lee than the ball bearing rolling around inside Manny’s head.
LOL
I’m guessing 95% of major leaguers have more gears turning in their mellon than Man-Roid, Fat Papi, and Kevin Millar.
We are having fun with these guys, but I really believe there is something to being oblivioius to the pressure, and is there anyone better at this than Manny?
We have guys like Big Z, Gameboard, and Marmol that break down and loose it after a bad ball/strike call. How could they possiably handle October pressure?
“Look” (to quote Lou), I would love to be wrong. I just don’t see this team handling the pressure that comes with being a Cub in the post season.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
They've had a couple of seasons of it,
I hope they’ve learnt a lot from those failures.
I’d wager if they make teh playoffs again they definitely won’t be sent packing in straight sets like the last two years. They will be a lot more comfortable.
Here is to you being correct!
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope so! I've been wrong plenty and I betcha I'll be wrong plenty more!
But I also think the decision not to make any big mid-season trades might be a conscious decision from ownership not to add anymore pressure to the team. If we’d traded for a big bat the focus would have been right back on the Cubs again and the pressure would have increased tenfold on the club to make the trade payoff.
Instead, there was a little bit of tinkering, pinching a few players at the Pittsburgh firesale and no noise was made.
No one’s making any bold predictions that we are going to go all the way (a la Dempster). Instead we’re battling it out against a team which made a significant gamble to clinch the division this year.
no, pressure will be increased after two straight sweeps.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
by buckmulligan on Aug 4, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
No, pressure will be reduced
Both of those sweeps came with the Cubs heavily favored. They won’t be favored for anything this year. They will be the underdogs.
This will not, however, reduce the pressure inside many Cubs fans craniums.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I'll never understand how
we were favored in the D-backs series. I thought we could win the series.. but I sure didn’t think it was likely.
I think it was more about hope...
The national personalities wanted the Cubs to win because of the story. That and they played really well in that September.
But yeah, the D-backs has home field, a really balanced lineup and two good starters. Looking at it objectively, I really didn’t get why the Cubs were favored either.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
i don't see that as mattering at all.
the pressure has nothing to do with being favored to win; it has everything to do with being in the playoffs and being the cubs! the pressure comes from not having won anything in so long and everybody wanting it. the previous two years increase that pressure in my opinion, no matter where the club stands.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
I think there is less pressure if they are the underdogs
There wasn’t as much pressure onthem in 2003, 1998, etc.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention
That they’d probably be starting on the road, and if they just seal one of the first two, they have a very good chance of winning a series. Which I think it the biggest reason Wild Card teams have done so well in this playoff format.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
I think there's something to that this time
I have to say, I hate the current format.
The first series should be 7 games, to slant it more to the better team. The Wild Card should have to play the best team in their league, regardless of which division that team is in. And, the Wild Card should have a distinct disadvantage in terms of home games as a penalty for finishing second.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I've hated the playoff format...
even before the Cubs started going regularly. And I agree that the first round should be 7 games. I looked it up on baseball reference.com last year, and just glanced at the first round playoff records.
I didn’t count them up literally, but it was shocking how many series DIDN’T go 5 games, and how many times the winner of game one won the series. It seemed like it was around 70%. It’s like the team that lost game one knew they were done and quit.
So, in effect, MLB has instituted a one-game playoff for the first round, and that’s a joke.
However, I do like that WC doesn’t play a division rival in the first round. While I get your point, and wouldn’t hate it if they changed it, it would also suck if you had two great teams in one division, that played each other 18 times already, have their season come down to one of those stupid best of fives, when it’s entirely possible that those two teams are the best in their league.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
If you don't see that as mattering at all
I think that you mistake the pressure that the players feel with the pressure that you feel.
Just my opinion, but most Cubs fans feel more pressure than the players because they have more history with the team. I have been a fan since 1969. Most players don’t have that long history.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
If thats the case
How do you explain the Cubs blowing the best of 5 1984 NLCS after winning the first game 13-0 and the second game as well? Why didn’t the Padres roll over and die?
That aside, I’m with you. If the team winning the first game wins 70% of the series, I think that’s a problem. Seems like it should be 7 games, even though I’m typically against expanding the postseason.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Why don't the Cubs think of this when they compose the team?
I find it just odd that it seems we have more red-asses/hotheads/whatever you want to call them than almost any team in the league- a la Zambrano, Marmol, Bradley, etc…..the LAST team who needs guys like that is the Cubs. I just don’t understand why Cub management doesn’t seem to consider the psyche of the players on the roster when trying to build a WS winner.
I’d like to see an owner, GM, and manager in here who “understands Cubdom”, who understands the immense pressure of playing for an organization who hasn’t won for 100 years, and takes this pressure into consideration when contructing a roster. Maybe it’ll happen under Ricketts, with a new GM and manager to match.
uh
they specifically cited how Bradley’s attitude was something they wanted in the clubhouse.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions
At one point
I thought Bradley might bring enough attitude to overcome the pressure…if he was on fire in late September, who knows???
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The same can go for the whole team
If they go in hot (as opposed to limping like the last 2 years)… who knows what can happen?
I did too...
but when I hear his comments like, “I don’t like being the center of attention…I didn’t know how intense the environment was here” it makes me want to puke. Was he not informed of all this before he signed? Why didn’t they do their homework on this guy a little more first?
who knows what goes on behind closed doors, but they ought to sit down with these free agents to be and simply tell them, “If you can’t handle pressure, don’t sign here. It’’s more pressure playing here than playing in NY. If you can’t handle this, and can’t handle being scrutizined, we don’t want you.” Though I wonder how many would listen and just sign the $30 mill contract (ahem, bradley, ahem)
I am almost utterly certain
that it completely doesn’t work that way. You can’t be an MLB ball player and not have an ego. The first thing these guys think when they’re told that is “oh of course I can handle it.”
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Sad but true (or Drew)
Everybody is trained from Little League to never quit and always try to be the hero.
yeah, and he's saying he doesn't understand that thinking.
and to be honest, i don’t either. we have a bunch of flighty, temperamental, talent guys when it seems like the cubs should have even-keeled, reliable guys. i thought fukudome was perfect at one time, then he proceeded to baffle me. this is not to say the whole roster is flighty; lee, rami, theriot, and some others seem about right (as did derosa, regrettably). i don’t really think this perception is a significant or even ‘valid’, but i am puzzled by a lot of the decisions made by the cubs in terms of player acquisition.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
I'm also concerned about the number of "unfinished masterpieces"
on this team. It seems like the guys who are key contributors have a hole in their game that keeps them from truly being dominant – Marmol’s control, Soriano’s streakiness and fielding, Bradley’s aggression, Theriot’s baserunning and limited range.
Of course we have Lee and ARam. And maybe most MLB players are
“unfinished” and I’m only acutely aware of the Cub players’ shortcomings. But I (and the rest of you) would sure love to see a couple more Pujols/Miggy Cabrera/Sandberg/Maddux types come up through the system.
You're talking about Hall of Fame players.
With free agency, a team full of HOFers is no longer realistic. The last team with multiple HOFers for a long period of time was the Braves in the ’90s. And even then, the Braves only won 1 WS.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The championship
Is all about catching lightning in a bottle. Of getting hot at just the right time. The Cubs have the skills to make that run in October, if they get hot at the right time.
I don’t see how it does any good to be concerned that the crew that we have is not perfect. There are plenty of opportunities to learn, in a 162-game season, how the parts can fit together. There are not enough masterpieces to go around, so we make do.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I'd like to agree with you, too, but...
…I haven’t seen anything from this team that suggests that they can handle the playoff pressure. Hopefully their hitters will show up this time (and the Manager gets it together as well). I’d settle for three competitive games.
well, it's not really a puzzle.
if they sneak into the post season, hopefully the bats happen to get going in the first series and things loosen up.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
i'd also settle for just getting there and not getting completely dismantled.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
Not me.
I want much more than that.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
by Blue W on Aug 4, 2009 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, the 06 cardinals really proved to me
that success in the playoffs has a lot to do with luck. get there enough times and eventually things will go right. so, i just hope we get there and give ourselves a chance.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
Winning the first series would be like winning the pennant.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Winning the second one even more so.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
winning the second would be like winning the WS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
What would winning the third be like?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing no one has gone 101 years between . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
There is no word in elvish, entish, or the common tounge for what that would be like...
it’s not even on the periodic table of awesoments.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Some of the pressure may be off because the expectations aren't quite the same as last year.
My worry is that they won’t be in game shape and sharp after all these injuries. They sure seem to have a snowball effect with the remaining players getting injured after a lack of rest. I hope Lou continues to rest players and extends that to his bullpen…yes we have to win to get there, but if your DL continues to be used so much it’s gonna be a big problem come October.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know that I will ever have confidence that
Wells next start won’t be the one that he blows up, but he sure has become a good pitcher. He throws STRIKES, something other members of the staff don’t always seem interested in, and he works quickly. Something tells me ROY in the NL is coming down to who gets the most wins between Wells and JA Happ.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
So he throws strikes and works quickly
Sounds like a pretty successful starter on the South Side of town, who gets by with less than overpowering stuff. I’d take that kind of work from Wells in a heartbeat.
As a defender, it’s easier when you know your pitcher is working quickly – you don’t have time to let your mind wander and know you have to be on your toes at all times.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
I love it when the game starts
but for some reason I can’t get over the “he’s a rookie and about to blow up” mindset yet.
I wish every pitcher would just throw strikes and believe in their stuff. Its amazing how throwing strikes and successful pitching go hand in hand
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
That's always been the Twins' philosophy
Throw strikes, and more times than not, the batters retire themselves.
I’m with you on worrying about the “rookiness” of Wells, but with each start, I think it subsides a little more. I don’t think he’s had a bad start since he faced the Twins back in June.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
i hope the guys that deal with picking the ROTY know w/l is one of the worst stats to rate a pitcher by
by jesus christos V2 on Aug 4, 2009 9:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No they don't
which is why thats what it will probably come down to.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Marmol's Wind-up
I have noticed that Marmol has changed his wind-up (or starting stance). He used to hold the ball out, concentrate, then look towards the catcher for the sign. Now, he just appears to stand there and look at the catcher. Maybe that little split second he had to concentrate on the ball is what is missing this year.
They need to sit him down and look at video, then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
actually
that was, according to Bob Brenley, a deliberate change. It reduces the number of things he does in his setup. Makes him think less about being in the “right” spot and more about pitching the ball well.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Then shouldn't he deliberately change back?
It doesn’t seem to be working. Besides that looked intimidating.
"Fasten your seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
I think
they maybe think he needs more time to put it together? That would be another reason why Lou keeps putting him out there; forcing him to assemble the pieces properly under game pressure. Sure is nervwracking.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes... that's exactly the difference between his delivery last year and this year.
And, I suspect, of course, the Cubs coaching staff has forced him to change it. Let him go back to how he was setting up and delivering the ball last year. Don’t try to fix what ain’t broke!
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
What's wrong with Carlos?
Nothing that some confidence wouldn’t cure.
While I do think he has some of the stranger mechanics for a pitcher that I’ve seen, I think “what’s wrong with Carlos” is the 8" of grey matter between his ears. As pointed out above, he’s been well scouted now and batters have learned (or been told) to wait until Carlos gets TWO strikes over the plate and THEN begin swinging. As his walk/innings ratio clearly points out, often he’ll walk or hit a batter by overthrowing first. Then it just begins to snowball and it’s inside his head and he loses his arm slot and release point.
Strangely, that CAN work in his favor because like with Nuke LaLoosh, neither Carlos, Hill or the batters can be sure where his next pitch is going.
Although I don’t see it happening (especially now that Gregg has a “tired arm”), Carlos needs to back to Iowa to straighten himself out. No big deal. Major leaguers often do minor league rehab stints. Just consider this a MENTAL rehab stint and JUST DO IT.
We need a healthy and effective Carlos Marmol to go anywhere but home for the winter in early October.
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
I agree that lots of experienced guys have gone to AAA for 4-6 week tune ups and come back and been
“lights out” when they came back to the big show. the advantage of AAA is they can work on certain pitches and even “take one for the team” a few times while they do this in a game situation. That is the advantage of working on “sheet” whether it is mental or physical, off the big stage.
I think Lou has to tell Carlos to pack up his bruised ego and go to Des Moines for a few weeks. That is the proper stage to work things out. I do not see Larry and him getting things worked out in the stress of a pennant race. Get out of the bright lights for a few weeks and recharge the batteries.
By Labor Day, no one will give a crap about Marmol spending time in the minors as long it is “Old Carlos” who is helping the Cubs get to the Promised Land!
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
except to make it to the minors he has to clear waivers
which won’t happen
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I believe Marmol has an option left
and he doesn’t have enough service time to reject a demotion to the minors.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
but hasn't he been up long enough that he has to go through waivers?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Nope, I'm almost positive he hasn't.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm sure you're right
my knowledge of major league service rules isn’t as good as yours.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Marmol has to clear waivers before being sent down.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
after reading all of that I have a giant headache
and I’m only more confused, but at least they put the answer in there.
Its a shame he can’t be sent down because that would help him a lot I think.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
OK, then I retract my earlier "wish".
Obviously he WON’T clear waivers, so we’ll just all have to gird our loins for the coming few months when he comes in to a game…
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
they could
DL him, and give him a few appearances in AAA, tho.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
too bad.
this stuff is confusing
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
It was a good idea, rest and the minors would help to me.
Since they can’t send him to the minors, why not rest him more…he’s been used too much this year to me, a few more days off and using some less pressure situations could be just what he needs to regain focus and work on his mechanics.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I've near heard of the find print of that rule.
I’ve always thought that if a player had an option but less than (something like 4 or 5) years of MLB service time, they could be optioned without going through waivers.
Man, are MLB rules confusing.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
he doesn't need mental rest
he needs physical rest…
look at how good he was right after the break, which coincidentally came right after he had thrown only twice in 10 days…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
This is in referral to a stint at Iowa
I think it’s a confidence issue.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 4, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
so his confidence was good
just 2 weeks ago
and now its bad?
seems like hindsight bias, confirmation bias, and selective memory
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Soto?
Anybody know how Soto did last night?
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
Soto
He said he felt no pain and that he would join the Cubs on Thursday, assuming there are no problems.
"Stay thirsty my friends."
Pretty excited, I hope he comes back hungry
Have at it boys and girls…..lol
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I hope he isn't too hungry
thats what got him in trouble last time
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
He can have some Rocky Mountain oysters in Denver...
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Wonder about his weight?
Hope he didn’t put on any more poundage while he was “rehabing”.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. He certainly should be fresh for the dog days of summer and if he can get hot could be a real weapon in October.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Whether it's a blessing in the sky
or on the baseball field, I really hope we’re not the only ones that thought he was overweight. I hope he realized it too and did something about it.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
Honestly, I think they sent him to AZ to lose some lbs.
What better way to lose some in the hot AZ heat.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
Yeah man, rehab has been great man, I can really think more clearly now man
I am like totally feeling no pain anymore man.
Holy cow folks. I hope none of YOU ever make a mistake in your lives.
Geo did a stupid thing. He’s acknowledged it, accepted responsibility and as far as we know is taking steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
I did dumb stuff when I was young. I suspect many of you have too.
Let it go.
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
by Zeke on Aug 4, 2009 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I imagine a good percentage of the haters have also tried pot at some point in their lives.
Something about glass houses comes to mind.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
Ba-da BOOM. CHING!
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
what was the stupidity?
a) that he smoked pot
b) that he didn’t know how to mask it in a urine test
Not specific to Soto, but aren’t we a bit tired of athletes who say “this is my one time” when they get caught. What they are really saying is, “this is the one time I was caught.” These are entitled athletes with lots of money and lots of free time. Sheet happens.
They are not perfect but rather human with insecurities. To believe this “one time” stuff all the time is just silly. Don’t condemn these athletes either—just accept life’s imperfections in all of us.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
naw
it’s too easy to make fun of him for being fat.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Soto is going to be a target for criticism
We all had such high hopes for him, but instead he spent his offseason smoking dope and eating.
I think every Cubs fan is dissapointed in him, the jokes about pot and being fat come from that dissapointment. I don’t have a problem with it, but then again I am one of the main participants.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
but instead he spent his offseason smoking dope and eating.
I’m glad to see your investment in spy-cameras turned out so well.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
In their own words:
Geovany Soto:
“While I fully acknowledge my inappropriate behavior, I want to assure my fans and my family that this was an isolated incident,” Soto said in a statement released by the Cubs. "I do not say this to minimize or deflect from my conduct and I fully understand the ramifications of my actions. I have and will accept any and all consequences.
“I am fully dedicated to the game of baseball and my teammates, and I apologize for any distraction and embarrassment this may cause them.”
The Cubs:
“Geovany assured the organization this was an isolated incident and a misstep in judgment that will not be repeated,” the statement read. “Though surprised and disappointed, the club supports Geovany as he takes responsibility for his actions and accepts the consequences.”
June 26, 2009
I refer to my earlier post. He’s making amends for a stupid mistake (smoking pot, not getting caught). When he returns to the Cubs he’ll be doing everything he can to help get the Cubs in the playoffs.
What more do you “Geo’s a pothead and fat!” want from the guy?
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
Agreed! And he'll be trying to do just that...
Let’s just give him a chance to do it without all the fat/doper stuff the first time he strikes out once he’s back…(is all I’m saying)
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
Zeke: I am all in favor of cheering for Geo to come back and succeed,
but I also think it is naive to believe him or any other athlete when they say, “this was an isolated incident.” As role models, they have to say this. Is it believable, no.
These guys are human, they are rich and entitled, under a lot of pressure and have lots of free time. To not think they will use recreational drugs is naive. To think many baseball players also used or use HGH or PEDs as a short cut is also naive. Like people in the workplace, they are all looking for shortcuts to get ahead of the next guy.
I just can’t believe that you believe an athlete when he says “it was an isolated incident.” I don’t believe Geo, but that doesn’t mean I like him any less. Like everyone else on BCB, I just want the guy to perform. Geo says what a lawyer from MLB tells him to say. It is all crap. I still cheer for Geo to come back and do great.
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
SHould say: What more do you "Geo’s a pothead and fat!" POSTERS want from the guy?
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
for him to lose weight
and go back to being good at baseball.
Of course they say its isolated and all that stuff, but you can’t be the naive to actually think that was the first and only time he smoked pot.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
No spy cam needed
His positive drug test and Pinella-like physique show me all I need to see.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I see.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
What exactly do you think Soto spent his offseason doing?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I agree. The pot jokes
at his expense have gotten very old.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
So have the TLR drunk jokes
the Lou old/fat jokes, the roids jokes about Tejada/etc.
They’ve all been beaten into the ground
what we need is some new material
perhaps a brewer or two could get arrested/busted for roids/something like that
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
The NFL season will start soon,
and then we’ll have the NBA to kick around after that!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah those two leagues have problem giving us things to make fun of
I thank them for that.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
YOU KNOW WHAT NEVER GETS TIRED THOUGH?
THIS NEVER GETS TIRED. GET IT RED ALLIE!!!!!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That thread was funny
but even thats been beaten into the ground… every thread has an ERIC LIND wannabe.
Oh, very well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
what an enthusiastic and assured vigorous and lively
picture
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
and I'd have a hard time believing that the topic of ski-jumping Sumo wrestlers
has been beaten to death here
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You don't remember that Fanpost?!?
It got something like 450 Recs. Oh man, that was wild.
But it got old very quickly.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Dang
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I agree.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
I don't think the jokes about Geo toking have been mean spirited here...
that just made me laugh, to me it has just been a harmless joke everyonce in awhile. Am I wrong on this?
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I've been told that on ESPN last night they talked about the Cubs
thinking of sending Jake Fox to the Arizona Fall league to try second base. Now since the information came from ESPN and then another person I can’t imagine it is entirely accurate, but did anybody else here that on the broadcast last night?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I heard it
trying to find a way to get Fox in the line-up on a regular basis
"Stay thirsty my friends."
Ok well at least we know ESPN was talking about it
While that doesn’t make it true, still something interesting to think about.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I've no idea how they train you at that level to learn a position, but
don’t you think he’s a bit too big to play 2B?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
personally I think it would be a disaster
but at the same time I can’t fault them for wanting to try it. You would think he would have to slim down quite a bit to play that position full time.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
But that kinda defeats the whole purpose, no?
It’s a real shame they can’t do much about giving him real playing time. I’m a huge fan, and not necessarily 100 percent about his baseball prowess.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I would think that he has already carved out his role on this team
for this season and the future. He can back up all four corner positions with a real solid bat. He isn’t a disaster at third base (actually in limited time that is his best position by UZR) and compared to what goes on in that outfield most nights he isn’t much worse.
I’m all for giving it a shot, the worst that happens is he can’t do it and he goes back to getting better at the other positions.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
It would seem with the ability to backup those 4 positions
we should be able to get him a start 3-4 days a week giving some of the other guys rest. I don’t know why this concept is so hard for Lou.
Lou doesn't want to use his backup catcher.
It sucks, but that is the situation, hopefully with Soto coming back, probably this weekend, Fox should be able to get more starts.
You’re killin’ me Smalls!
He's eligible to switch to catcher as long as he's not pulled from the game
I keep hearing that excuse, but it doesn’t really make sense. If something happens to Koyie, move Fox there.
Then you might as well play him at one of the other positions
Get your regulars some rest, and put his bat to use, no?
Considering he has caught Bradley in Homers and has 1 more RBI...
I think he has earned the right to play more.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
No doubt he needs to play more
Lou only knows why he isn’t. Its a crime that he didn’t get one shot at catching an entire game.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I don't mind them trying him out in AZ, that's what it's for.
But it’s a real big reach. He can hit and so at least the Cubs are now trying to explore all options but I doubt he can pull it off. If he does—wow! It doesn’t hurt to try him in AZ since he’s not getting on the field now.
I'm not saying Fox has DeRosa's athleticism but,
DeRosa is listed at 6’1" 205, Fox 6’0" 210lbs. So I’m sure he could play a halfway decent 2nd base with practice, though Fox turning double plays may get interesting.
You’re killin’ me Smalls!
I'm with you
not necessarily about size but more about agility and athleticism. Specially when it comes to laying out for a ground ball in th hole or trying to turn two.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
He looks "girthy"
and much bigger than Dreamy DeRo. I’m rather surprised by the weight listed.
Anywho, if he can show some range to the trainers in AZ, I’m all for keeping him. His attitude alone is a huge asset to this club.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
Case in point.
Casey McGehee, 6-1, 195, seems to have a similar body type to Fox, has played quite a bit of 2B for the Brewers this year and done it reasonably well.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow. 105 out of 100?
That’s pretty good…;)
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
shouldn't be a problem, especially when you a gold glove defensive wiz playing alongside him at SS
(SWL rebuttal coming in 5… 4… 3…)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Imagine the double plays they could turn into FC together
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I can't imagine a lot of guys trying to take him out on the double play. Ouch!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 4, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I concur.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
who do you think we are signing to play SS next year???
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
Here is the current SS Free Agent Class of 2010....yuck.
Orlando Cabrera (35)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Bobby Crosby (30)
Adam Everett (33)
Chris Gomez (39)
Alex Gonzalez (32) – $6MM mutual option with a $500K buyout
Khalil Greene (30)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
John McDonald (35)
Marco Scutaro (34)
Miguel Tejada (36)
Omar Vizquel (43)
Jack Wilson (32) – $8.4MM club option with a $600K buyout
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Might not be a coincidence that good SS in their prime
don’t hit the FA market.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Its almost like some teams put a premium on that position
Of course the cubs don’t participate in that seeing as no Cubs SS this decade has had a league average OPS+
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Don't know about you, but I haven't seen a world class SS come out of the Cubs system worth
locking down for more than 3 years.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Thanks darlin -
I think I owe Daver a thanks for that.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Rhymes?
Anyway, I tend to be leery about prospects that the Cubs hype.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Daver was amazed at the ease of his pickup lines -
Hey darlin, I’m Starlin.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
When Ryan Theriot is the best shortstop I've had on my team
I know I root for an organization that needs some help in that position.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I can only imagine what is must be like inside Trammell's brain...
watching Theriot play SS day after day after day.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably many of the same words that Lou
is saying to him watching Marmol pitch. Lots of cursing.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Doh!
Brought out the grandmother eh…you’re fiesty today, and right lol
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
There are a couple good ones down on the farm...
Castro is 19 and played in the futures game. Flaherty is someone else to keep your eye on. Played at Vanderbilt.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
Lee
is the guy to look at in Boise. Flaherty won’t play SS in the majors. In fact, milb.com already has him listed as a 2B.
Ahhh... Thanks for the clarification.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I know many of your qualms are with his defense
but as a comparison, check out Rafael Furcal’s OPS + starting in 2007 (when Theriot became the everyday SS): 90.
Compare that to Theriot’s 87 and it’s pretty close. Furcal has a cannon arm, yes, but he cost 35 (!) times as much over the last two years! I’m only using Furcal as a comparison because the Cubs were strongly in the hunt for him after 2005 on the free agent market. I know the last four years haven’t been the best of his career, but he’s the most prominent free agent shortstop of the last half-decade.
I know you’re using 100 as “league average” OPS+, but that’s not really a fair measure. Shortstop is a below league average offensive production position and Theriot’s production over the last three years has actually been just about league average for his position. His defense is not good. But it’s also not terrible.
I’m by no means a Theriot apologist, but he has been durable and average (which is GREAT when compared to his salary). When he first came up, I saw him as overrated for his scrap/grit/hustle. Just trying to make sure the pendulum doesn’t swing too far so that he somehow becomes underrated.
I feel like after months of debate
BCB in general has Theriot rated right where he belongs. A slap hitting bat that can spray some doubles, get on base at an average rate, and play average defense at SS with a weak arm. Also poor baserunning.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
In other words....
a pretty good second baseman.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
there is the SWL we all love :-)
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
so he should play on Commonewealth Edison's
softball team?
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
and, yes, I did get the pun
nicely played for those of us in So Cal.
I think you nailed it right there.
Switching him to second where he belongs to me would be perfect until you see the class of FA SS available next year. Makes you wish Blanco could hit but that’s just Pie wishful thinking I suppose…
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough.
As long as he stops swinging for the fences every time and pays attention when he’s on base, I can live with Theriot as our SS.
Wow. My arthritis is acting up for just READING this list.
Where’s my ibuprofen?
Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...
Amen.
usually in front of the Oxycoton
"If it's obvious, it's obviously wrong." - a well known stock market guru
Marmol
People in Chicago may not like Steve Stone, but he may be right about Marmol. I’ve heard Stone say, including on Tribune Live yesterday, that Marmol’s consistency problem is due to the fact that he falls off the mound towards 1st base way too hard. LR is apparently trying to break him of this, but to no avail.
"Stay thirsty my friends."
And in the eyes of many, especially around here
If he fixes it, it will be all Marmol. If he doesn’t, it’ll be Rothchild’s fault.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't care who gets the credit, I'd just like to see Marmol working on it, getting some rest
and turn it around. You’ve got to hope they pick one thing to try with him…wind up or whatever, and work on it for awhile. I’d think anything would help him focus just because he has to think about that instead of whether he’s gonna throw a strike. Some days off would help too.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not a scout, but I think it's a combination of wear and confidence.
A minor-league stint actually could help with both.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you and unfortunately as posted in the link earlier, he would have to clear waivers.
Big shame to me. I think it would help with both but because of waivers I think all Lou can do is give him more rest and change where he pitches him for awhile.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
So... who closes if I read right that Gregg is rested and,
I assume, Carlos won’t be risked again?
Will it be Angel Guzman?
Ha! When Heilman actually pitches an innning of relief without giving up a run, that is a victory in itself.
Sadistically, you may just be right.
He got the Save Saturday after Gregg imploded, but
I know what you are saying.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
he really has
done that plenty of times. Just not in a row.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right.
This season, when Marmol comes out you can bet half the time he is gonna walk a heap of blokes and get himself in trouble, while Heilman comes out you can bet 1 out of 2 times he is gonna give up some runs.
The Marlins certainly had problems with him, but they chewed up Gregg.
Lou said had he known Gregg had a tired arm he wouldn't have pitched him Sunday...
Which then I question Lou. Gregg threw 36 pitches on Saturday and has logged a lot of meaningless innings lately. You couldn’t figure this out on your own?
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I believe a tired arm is different than just being tired.
If that makes any sense.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
What is Larry's role in all this
Heilman, Gregg, Marmol, look real bad
When is he going to say to Lou WTF ? are you thinking
Marshall and Guzman have been better
"If The Phone Doesn't Ring, It's Me"
Or when is Lou going to say to Larry
WTF, get these guys straightened out so I don’t have two or three heart attacks a game
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
To be fair...
Gregg has only looked poor the against the Marlins, his old club who would know him inside out.
For all the flack he copped earlier on in the year he had been very solid coming into the Florida series. The word has been he had been overworked, I reckon that might be all that was wrong.
Same thing happened to Woody
I don’t know if the reasoning is the same, but it’s kinda funny for it to happen like this against your old team.
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He looked bad against the Braves in Atlanta too
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
I'm going to defend Gregg on that blown save in Atlanta
Before Francoeur homered, Anderson reached on a strikeout and wild pitch that really should have been blocked.
Yes, he still gave up the homerun, but the inning should have been over.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah that was on Geo
or Hill whoever was catching, I’m guessing it was Geo.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Yes, it was Geo
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
A pitching coach can't "fix" everyone
Heilman was also bad in NY last season. Maybe he is just done. Gregg looks to be about the same as he was last season.
I have no idea whether Rothchild is good or not. People like to bash him but doesn’t he get credit then for Wells, Lilly having his best seasons, Dempster’s recovery, Harden staying healthier than in Oakland, etc.?
My only concern with Marmol is in the post season
If we make it to the playoffs what would stop any major league manager from telling his team not to swing at anything Marmol pitches?
If the team is down a run or two why wouldn’t you let him try and load up the bases.
Well he has 2 months to figure it out, hopefully he does!
We'll just have to win all the playoff games 10-0 so that won't matter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But we have Milton Bradley!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Funny you said he was relying on fastballs
When the commentators last night were saying he seemed to not want to throw anything but his slider.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Cubs brought up Cashner for middle relief the rest of the season, and started using Guzman more in the 8th and 9th. Cashner has the potential to be the rally-killer Marmol was the last couple of years. I don’t know why they won’t give Stevens or Parker a decent shot, but the club seems to believe in Cashner.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I think if the Cubs had left Cashner as a relief pitcher
He would already be on the team. I doubt they burn an option and start the service clock, but I could be wrong.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Cashner could be the Cubs' version of Frankie Rodriguez (back in 2002)
Or the 2007 Kevin Hart.
If the Cubs brought up Cashner in September and he was light’s out, then I could see him sneaking on the postseason roster as another power arm. Especially if the Cubs use only 3 starters in the opening round.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Yeah I agree
Does a September callup burn an option? If it doesn’t then why not bring him up and see what he can do, it cannot possibly be worse than Heilman
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
It would start his service clock
I don’t know if it would burn a full option year, though.
Either way, the Cubs are going to need some reinforcements to play some big roles in that pen in September, since I think some of those arms are going to be near cooked towards the end of the month.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
options only occur
iirc, if you get sent down. so calling him up wouldn’t burn an option. but if we would return him to the minors in 2009 or 2010, that would. he is young enough to where he not need be on the 40 man roster. as soon as he gets called up, he takes up a spot there. so the best case scenarion (for the cubs and his contract status) would be to keep him off the roster until the season starts in 2010. in other words, the cubs would love to bring him up in may 2010.
I understand leaving him in the minors until 2010.
But if the Cubs feel that Cashner can be a difference-maker later this year, whether it would be in a spot-start or in the bullpen, I hope beginning his service clock isn’t a factor in their decision making.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
No, it wouldn't burn an option
since they wouldn’t be sending him dow (optioning) to the minors. He would stay with the Cubs for the remainder of the regular season.
I don’t believe September service dates count towards whther a players is a super 2 or not (and eligible for arbitraition after 2 years).
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions
All the more reason to bring him up in September
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
The reason to not bring him up
is they aren’t required to add him to the 40 man roster over the winter (or risk losing him in the rule 5 draft in December). They would have the flexibility of that open roster spot over the winter and could use it to protect a player that is in jeopardy of being taken in the rule 5 draft.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Sure.
But if he’s talented enough, why not bring him up? If his stuff translates to being a successful reliever in September, then why not give him a chance to be a power arm down the stretch?
Who would you rather see on a playoff roster – Andrew Cashner (with a power arm and control), or Aaron Heilman?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Then no reason he shouldn't be here September 1
and if he pitches well, on the playoff roster
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I think you are right because they aren't removing anyone from the 40 man roster.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
By the way
Parker has given up ZERO home runs this year in 40 appearances (46.1 innings). Last year he gave up three HR in 45 games. He is a groundball pitcher. Righties are batting .188 against him in Iowa.
Cashner has yielded 1 HR in 72.2 innings. Last year he gave up 1 homer in 20 innings as a pro.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Marmol
First, where are the posts wanting him as closer now?
I think it is a lot of things:
1. Teams know his control isn’t that good. When he was good last season, he got a lot of batters out with pitches out of the zone. Batters are getting smarter and laying off many of those pitches.
2. His mechanics. For whatever reason including possibly overwork, his mechanics seem to be all over the place.
3. His confidence. He looked scared out there to me. He was rushing. I didn’t see someone who felt he was going to get through the inning.
4. Setup men frequently have ups and downs. Look at Howry.
While Marmol has the stuff to close, guys struggling to set up
don’t get considered for starters. They are the backup quarterbacks of the bullpen. No one calls for them if they struggle.
Further, confidence seems to be the key ingredient after two good pitches for a closer. Marmol needs to get back his pitches and confidence to be considered a lock down set up man, nevermind the closer role.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
What do you think Sweet Lou said to Mr. Marmol?
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
Thought I saw Lou
point towards the outfield, maybe telling him to let his defense help him out? Maybe that’s part of his “problem”, thinking that he has to strike out every single batter and blow them away.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I think he was asking him if he can play left-field... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'll bet
that it wasn’t the same thing I was yelling to the TV from the comfort of my own couch.
Then again, maybe it was…
"They say that money doesn't buy happiness...but it DOES by Cub tickets. You ever see a sad person with Cub tickets?"
Almost looked like Lou was going to yank him...
and then changed his mind when he realized a Reds had a new pinch-hitter up…Lou had to come up with something quick on the way to the mound. I’m guessing the best Lou could come up with is “What the Hell are you doing? Throw strikes!”. Its what we all were thinking.
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
Who is the Cub leader
for the ‘most infuriating to watch play baseball?’
I vote for Soriano, Bradley, and Marmol – in that order.
"They say that money doesn't buy happiness...but it DOES by Cub tickets. You ever see a sad person with Cub tickets?"
For me (and this won't be very popular)
Its Dempster, Heilman, Fontenot, then Milton
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
hmm...
Dempster is a bit of a surprise…no love for a Canuck?
"They say that money doesn't buy happiness...but it DOES by Cub tickets. You ever see a sad person with Cub tickets?"
The Aaron Heilman Sucks Fanclub casts its collective vote for the aforementioned
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
It's gotta be Soriano
If he’s not hot, he might be the worst baseball player I’ve ever seen. Seriously, everyone in the whole park and watching on TV knows he’s going to see sliders out of the zone when down in the count, and he still swings at them. It kills me.
Bradely will walk on occasion. Soriano just doesn’t do anything good when he’s going bad.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
Marmol, Heilman, Sori
"Cub fans like to think of things in catastrophic terms." - Crane Kenney
by NashvilleBlue on Aug 4, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Marmol more than any other, because of my expectations from him.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Brooks
Seven of those “strikes” were foul balls hit by Alex Gonzalez after Marmol had run the count to 0-2; it’s difficult to know how many of those balls were actually in the strike zone and how many Gonzalez was swinging at to protect the plate and just get a piece of.
Brooks Baseball Pitch F/X tool is your friend. Look in the wide zone.
Do people actually think this team will make it into the playoffs?
I’m not convinced of that yet. If Marmol doesn’t get his head and his arm straightened out, I don’t believe we’ll get that far. We need him to be good.
by Blue Heron on Aug 4, 2009 9:45 AM CDT reply actions
I would be shocked if Kosuke doesn't lead off a game with a walk
he seems to do that every time. It’s pretty amazing.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
Guzman should close
tonight, if Gregg gets another night off. I’d have Stevens/Marshall for the 7th and 8th, Guzman for the 9th. Marmol needs a night off too.
I have nothing funny or creative to write.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 4, 2009 9:50 AM CDT reply actions
You're assuming Gorzo goes 6?
Could be a long night for the pen if his comeback fails miserably.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
I don't think Guzman is a canidate to close
simply because the Cubs have been very careful with him all season due to his injury season. Guzman is not able to handle the workload of a close at this point.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Why Not, Marshall?
Look, Marmol and Gregg has been terrible lately. Marshall needs to be the designated closer for this evening’s game. Hopefully, Sean will make good on a save opportunity tonight. I still believe in Marmol and Gregg, but they both need a rest right now.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Bad Grammar Alert
Look, Marmol and Gregg HAVE been terrible lately.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I'm sure hoping so.
After leaving Marshall out of the first game Gregg blew the save, I’ve really been scratching my head Lou letting him sit there…he could have easily started Marshall with Gregg or last night Marmol warming up if needed. Even if you think they have the experience to handle the situation more than Marshall, it seems to me with how much Lou worked these guys during the year we absolutely needed the fresher arm in there instead. Plus, by now Marshall most anything he does will look good by comparison.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If Ryan comes back well and Gregg continues to struggle, I think Ryan should get some chances
he has done it before. His stuff might not be there though.
Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball
Dempster?
No, they’re not going to move him out of the rotation. He hasn’t exactly been a disaster – and who would you start in his place?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I think he's referring to BJ Ryan
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I think he means BJ
Right now a BJ Ryan miracle might be our only hope
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Yes, you're both right
That not only makes more sense, but lexmark seems to know what he’s talking about.
My bad . . . was posting between getting actual work done. Won’t let it happen again!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
As posted above, if Wells continues, Demp to the 'pen if they
make the playoffs isn’t a bad option to have.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Votto
anyone else think that he pulled an acting job on his HBP in the 8th? Looked like he’s been watching tapes of Ryan Braun
by VillanuevaExperience on Aug 4, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions
I agree
Doesn’t the hitter have to make an effort to get out of the way? Last night Votto looked Biggio-esk in his ability to not move from a pitch.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Aug 4, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
I didn't see it, but yes - you are supposed to make an effort
Was he wearing elbow armor like Biggio?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
No armor, but
in the majors, no effort to get out of the way is really necessary. Ever watch Reed Johnson get hit?
You’re killin’ me Smalls!
Oh, it's rarely called
The best ones make it look like they are getting out of the way as they dive into it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Like Coach Ernie Pantuso. He could take one off the melon on a slider outside
in the dirt. The man was an artist.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 4, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
"Is there an Ernie Pantuso here?"
That’s you, Coach.
“Speaking!”
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Considering that Milton didn't exaclty dive out of the way of his HBP
I’ll let this one pass.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
He was thinking
of his gaudy OBP. That’s the only stat that is gaudy!
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
I'm not so sure
Marmol’s out pitch has always been that electric slider; it almost seems as if he doesn’t trust the slider as much as he wants to blow people away with the fastball.
Last night, as well as in the recent past, he’s always relied on his slider way to much. I can’t remember who was up before Gonzales, or maybe it was Gonzo who was outmatched by his FB, but he refused to throw it again. I think it was the guy who hit an opposite-field single.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
Mark Prior (shoulder) hasn't pitched in the majors since 2006, hasn't picked up a ball since April, and was released Monday by the Padres.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Sorry
That was the link in the Fanpost. Here is the Fanpost: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/8/1/972038/prior-to-be-released#comments
Hasn't picked up the ball since April
Not even a towel session?
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
I'm not sure how much more evidence can pile up
before people come to the realization Marmol has been overworked the last 2+ years and his command is suffering from severe fatigue.
He’s had this same pattern throughout his career that the more often he’s worked the less effective he has been at locating the zone. I’ve posted so many times on this, shown the numbers and continue to come back to posts like this: “What is wrong”. I’m not the only one who has done this either as hardballtimes had an excellent article on Marmol last year. It’s frustrating to see everyone come up with all sorts of other excuses (its mental, over-reliance on his fastball, etc) when the most obvious reasons are right in front of you.
He’s been abused. His arm is fatigued. When his arm is fatigued he compensates by dropping his arm angle. This maintains his velocity but costs him command. His fastball tends to have more run and his slider tends to hang more and isn’t breaking as sharp. This has been the case for over a year now.
His career command #’s continue to show a disturbing trend.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=marmoca01&year=Career&t=p#dr
Days Rest BB/9
0 Days, GR 6.71
1 Days, GR 5.31
2 Days, GR 4.54
3 Days, GR 4.18
4+ Days, GR 3.86
That’s a linear relationship that clearly shows the more fatigued he is the less command he has.
If you take that basic concept and extend it to the idea that as he’s been overworked the last few years his long-term effectiveness is being compromised as well. We’re seeing this in the declining command this year as well as the declining K Rate.
BLou is right in the sense that middle relievers carry a ton of volatility towards them because of their abuse patterns and while Marmol being in the setup role may have always been predisposed to this, the abuse was exagerrated by Pineilla’s unwillingness to trust anyone else in the pen AND his refusal to put strict boundaries on Marmol (i.e. not using him 3 days in a row, or in games with more than a 5 run difference in score). THIS is the reason closers don’t succumb to the abuse patterns, because they’re more conservatively used. This SHOULD have been the case with Marmol given he was identified as the long-term closing option.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Thanks for looking that up.
I was having a discussion with a friend as we watched last night that a three-run game heading into the ninth would have been a good situation to keep Grabow in as he used three (four?) pitches to get two outs in the 8th. He’s been effective against both left- and right-handed hitters; but of course Mr. Piniella chose to go to Marmol.
I seem to remember some comment from Lou earlier in the year that Marmol needed to pitch at least every two or three days to remain sharp. At some point, doesn’t he have to let the evidence (i.e. HE’S NOT BEING SHARP) dictate his strategy rather than a vague philosophy that is not working?
there were plenty of good reasons to leave Grabow in
especially given Marmol had thrown 55 pitches in the last 3 days (2 extended appearances), now he’s up to 91 pitches in the last 4 days
but yes, I’ve been complaining about the Marmol usage patterns for over a year now with little luck in convincing people here of this trend. My guess is just like people here, Lou just chooses to ignore the evidence and believe in whatever reasons he chooses to believe.
I just wish at some point the Cubs would take it out of Lou’s hand and DL Marmol for a period of time
Look at how good Marmol was right after the ASB (4 day layoff, had only pitched twice in 10 days)
then during that period when he was great again, he was abused, being used 7 times in 11 days
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Even with a smidgeon of control he's excellent
Right now, though, he has none and is therefore mediocre.
If, as you propose and support with evidence (gasp!), that this complete lack of control is due to overwork, someone needs to firmly remind Lou that sometimes he shouldn’t go with his gut. If it’s Marmol saying that he needs work to stay effective, someone needs to firmly remind Lou that he is the manager and doesn’t have to listen to his players.
Rec'd
Remember when it was all the rage to argue Marmol had to be over-used to be effective.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
+1
That was sure tossed around a lot
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Closers
What you say about Marmol makes a lot of sense. However, I disagree that closers don’t pretty much suffer the same fate as middle relievers and set up men. Rivera seems to be be the one great exception. Possibly Hoffman another. But look at Lidge this year versus last, and he also had his ups and downs when he was at Houston. In the end, most good set up guys wind up as closers (take Rivera again). Everyone seemed to agree that this would ultimately be Marmol’s destiny, but unless he gets himself straightened out, no one is suggesting that now.
"Earthly fame is naught but a breath of wind, which now comes hence and now comes thence, changing its name because it changes quarter." -- Dante, Purgatorio, Canto XI
Closers are insulated more
from the massive innings totals
most closers finish in the 60-70’s in IP, most MR’s in the 70’s-80’s, some in the 90’s
as an example here’s a smattering of teams last year:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2008.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2008.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2008.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SDP/2008.shtml
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
70-80 innings
Since when is 70 innings over 162 games “massive?” That’s less than half an inning a game, or maybe 15-20 pitches every other day, assuming the reliever is effective, as Marmol was last year. Doesn’t seem like too much to ask.
We’ve gone from having the best middle relievers throw 150 innings a year, to 100, down to 70-80, over the last few decades. And they’re still getting hurt all the time. Maybe if they only threw 40 or 50 innings a year, the “pitcher abuse” crowd would be happy. But we’d need to have 15-man pitching staffs.
I’m not advocating going back to 100- or 150 innings a year, either. I’m just saying that at some point, it doesn’t make sense to keep dropping workloads.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
i think you're mistaking innings for abuse
back in the old days, guys didn’t pitch every day or warm up every day, they had a few days off because SP’s would go deeper into games
plus comparing “olden days” to now is silly. The mound was higher, the hitters on the whole were worse as lineups weren’t as deep as they are today and pitchers generally have to work a lot harder today to get through an inning (Orel Hersheiser’s piece on this was fantastic)
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed to some extent
Yes – now they do get up every day and warm up – good point.
But I don’t buy your “mound is higher” argument because it’s not based in fact. The mound was lowered in 1969. When I was talking about relievers throwing 100 to 150 innings a year, I was referring to the 1970s, after the mound was lowered.
There are numerous other factors working against pitchers today, as you point out. Having 80% of hitters on steroids couldn’t have helped. Hopefully that’s one problem that’s going away.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
SOB
Lou said Aaron Miles is almost ready to be back, which means we get back a hitter who did this in AAA
.253/.267/.299/.566 with 4 2Bs, 0 3Bs, 0 HRs, and 5 errors
Screw that, just release his ass and eat the salary.
Roster moves afoot: The Cubs will send a reliever, likely Jeff Samardzija or Jeff Stevens, to Triple-A Iowa on Tuesday to make room for starter Tom Gorzelanny. Samardzija has been ineffective against left-handed hitters, who are batting .393 against him.
“The stuff looks good to me,” Piniella said, adding Samardzija’s command is the real problem. “He throws a lot of pitches, he falls behind, he walks people — and that’s not good.”
Piniella also said Aaron Miles is almost ready to return from Iowa, which could mean a demotion for Andres Blanco.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Why Miles at the expense of Blanco?
Blanco is infinitely better as a defensive SS and at least as good/bad as Miles at the plate.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Because Miles is signed for 2010.
The Cubs are without an owner or at least an owner that has the power to make decisions for 2010 therefore releasing aplayer owned money in 2010 cannot be done. There literally isn’t anyone who has the power to make that decision.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
If they passed around a basket at Wrigley Field the next homestand
I’m 99% sure they would come up with enough money to eat Miles salary.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Why do they have to release him? Can't he stay in AAA?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
No, he has to much MLB service time.
The collective bargaining agreement prohibits this.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
It does and it doesnt
No current active owner to make a decision on next years payroll, but then why add Gorz and Grabow?
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
Grabow is a free agent.
Technically, the Cubs aren’t locked into any salary on Gorzalany for next season as he doesn’t have a contract after this season. The Cubs will need to offer him a contract (or arbitraiton if he is eligible) by the deadline date or non-tender him (or trade, of course.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
There is absolutely nothing Miles can do that Blanco can't do better.
Time to simply eat the contract and release Miles. Period.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why...
Other than the salary thing, would the Cubs even consider bringing him back? Seriously, either release him, or find another thing to DL him with. Calling him back would do nothing but make this team worse.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
Keep Miles in the minors or release him. There is no place on this ball club for him, period!
Send Samardzija down, he hasn’t done anything to deserve to stay.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
More Miles hate
I’m sorry, I understand he would just be the backup infielder and shouldn’t really matter in the long run, but he isn’t even a better hitter than Andres Blanco and clearly not the defensive player Blanco is. How freaking stupid is Cubs management that they would consider allowing him back on the team?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Let's not panic just yet
Patterson had the “surprise” set back.
And if Miles does come back, he’s not going to be playing as much as he was when Ramirez was hurt.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I know its just a backup infielder
but if the idea of a major league roster is to put the best 25 players you can together, how can adding Miles be justifiable?
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I don't disagree, but all the angst-filled replies to the original comment seem a bit much
This won’t be the difference between holding off the Cardinals/finishing second.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Obviously he won't make a difference either way
I think most of us just prefer never to have to watch him play.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Not going to argue that
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Bullcrap! Any player on the roster could effect winning this division or not.
Sending down a valuable player like Fox or Blanco for Miles could definitely change the course of even one game, and that one game where Miles boots a ground ball or grounds back to the pitcher with the bases loaded, could be the difference in making the playoffs of not. We’ve seen his act for months and it don’t play here and he has no business on this team.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
So much angst....
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
it's entirely possible
that Miles’ arm is, you know… better. If that’s the case, maybe he can produce.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I thought about posting something similar, but thought that might put people over the edge
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
what
again?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
well I saw it once
and that should be enough to draw judgment!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Statements that aren't outright condemning seem to
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll post it again in case anyone missed it
This is what Miles did in AAA. In case you think he can produce when healthy
.253/.267/.299/.566 with 4 2Bs, 0 3Bs, 0 HRs, and 5 errors
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
not it's not...
it’s .063 HIGHER than his ML OPS this year. He’s improved!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions
To think Barry Bonds had a higher OBP than Miles OPS
one season.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
You're leaving out that he only has 1 RBI in 21 games
Truly awful. Andy White’s OPS is only .620 this year, but at least he can play SS without committing an error every 4 games.
Started 3
Defensive replacement 6 other times.
. . . 2 errors at SS, but 0 in his 32 games appeared at 2B
Wherever you put Blanco, put him before Miles.
I spent 90% of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted - George Best
Produce what? Outs with his bat?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
.240 would be fine for a backup
He’s way overpaid, but that’s Hendry’s fault.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
It also seems fine for a starting right fielder too I guess.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions
ISWYDT
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
No, it's not. The guy can't produce and it's been proven.
He has no business in the majors.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Such angst . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you mean David Patton?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Whoops!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Really off your game today!
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
No kidding. Maybe it's time to call it a morning and go to lunch.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow... 11:26 already.
Sounds like a plan.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
how could they even consider bringing miles back?
he offers nothing to the team.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
another critique on Lou last night
If you’re going to be frustrated by a guy walking batters, why would you bring Marmol in to close out that game?
Marmol’s walking over a batter/inning, so it was just plain probability that you were going to endure some walks there. Why are you so surprised and upset in the dugout? Why not take responsibility and put in reliever that throws strikes from the start like Angel Guzman?
Seeing Lou get upset and act surprised at what was happening was perhaps the most frustrating part of watching that 9th inning last night.
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 10:48 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Probably because the score was 4-1
If it’s a closer game, maybe Lou changes his mind??
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
I don't care what the situation was...
While you don’t know ever what will happen, overwork+wildness meant Marshall was the much better option just like the night before when he brought in Gregg again. To me the problem is Lou felt he had to anoint a new closer with Gregg out and after saying that earlier in the day had to follow through. Why not just go with your best option Lou? We don’t need a second closer…just the best pitcher given where you are with your ’pen.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps HIGGY can address
this, but I know that Marmol has pitched basically from early winter until now. DWL ball, then WBC, then ST, now MLB.
Isn’t that just plain pitching too much?
In 2007/2008 he was unhitable. No longer.
And, he was complaining early on about not getting the closer nod out of ST, too.
He still is unhittable. Batters are still only batting .159 against him.
When you walk people and hit people… Bad things happen.
''This should be the most important thing you've got going on, right? You physically and mentally prepare yourself to play every day, and if you're not physically or mentally ready to play every day as an every-day player, then you're letting the other guys down."
''That's how it works in every aspect of life. It's no different than construction work or anything else. That's how you should be as a person.'' - Koyie Hill 8-3-09
When was the last time
a club had 2 consecutive ROYs.
For the Cubs
1961 Billy Williams
1962 Ken Hubbs
Campenella
Halladay
Hobbs
Lee Jackson
Oswalt
Parmelee
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Now, turn your head and cough for me please.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
He tricked me by including Karros.
I’ve been duped, and stop fondling me dammit.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
They also pulled 4 in a row in the 70s
I think.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
It was late 70s, early 80s
They had:
1979: Rick Sutcliffe
1980: Steve Howe
1981: Fernando Valenzuela
1982: Steve Sax
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
too lazy to look it up
but wasn’t there a Garvey, Cey, Lopes, Russell, or Marshall run in the early 70’s?
This is why I am skeptical of the "experts"
that rated the Cubs farm system so high a few years back when many of those players turned out to be duds.
Now, they rate the Cubs farm system low and don’t even rank Soto or Wells on their so-called prospect lists.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
And the experts still have in-house sack-of-crap, Samardjja, ranked as a budding star!
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
I tought Soto was the "budding" star.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
too bad we can't trade him
and he becomes somebody else’s in house sack of crap
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
For sure, give McFail a call in Balt.
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
It seems a little early to declare Shark a bust.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Again?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup, found myself watching some crap after the game
interviewing Australian surfers “One minute I’m watching the fish and I felt something brush my leg. Looked down any my leg was mangled and lahge shahk is hanging from my knee mate.”
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
Thah tigah shahk ahte mah bahbee!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Reminds me of Seth Green’s band on “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” – they were called “Dingos Ate My Baby”.
Well, that's the phrase that I was inspired by
But that’s older than Buffy
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Here: http://www.scoutingbook.com/prospects/91-100
"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."
Wow.
They consider Rami as declining.
The Chicago Cubs made Vitters the third overall pick in the 2007 draft, and the hope in Hopeland is that he’ll develop 25-homer power in time to replace the declining Aramis Ramirez.
Change is inevitable; progress is optional.
they're saying
that by the time Vitters is ready Ramirez should be declining…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
in that case...
his slugging HAD declined 5 consecutive years before this season
by DartmouthCubsFan on Aug 4, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
And his OBP improved in each of those years.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I was only looking at the last 3 years.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Aug 4, 2009 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
You misinterpreted the quote..
They’re saying by the time Ramirez is declining, the hope is that Vitters will be ready.
Could Rich Harden eventually be converted to closer?
Obviously, this is more of a down-the-road solution and does nothing for our current predicament, but does anybody else think Rich would make a good closer? Right now, the guy eeks out every minute of his five days off, but could he be conditioned to be on a reliever’s schedule? So many veterans move to the bullpen toward the end of their career; I would think this could be a way to maximize his ability (which, as a started, is pretty much limited to five innings) and longevity.
Thoughts? Is the lack of rest between appearences too much of a barrier for him?
I think Harden will want
at least one more big SP contract before even considering a move to the bullpen.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
I think he'll make a good little league pitcher
They only play 6 innings.
I think it could work
so much so that last night I obnoxiously declared I was right in my opinion that Harden should start closing. My aplogies to Drew and Allie for being snarky.
Check out Pre-Game thread from yesterday.
Discussed in the comments:
recap- Oakland tried it, his arm didn’t respond well to pitching on consecutive days. Also, right now, he’s more valuable as a starter. Maybe if he has more arm injuries.
so im about an hour and a half away from cincy
and its like a hurricane out there. not good
by jesus christos V2 on Aug 4, 2009 11:40 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
so im about an hour and a half away from cincy
and its like a hurricane out there. not good
by jesus christos V2 on Aug 4, 2009 11:40 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
so im about an hour and a half away from cincy
and its like a hurricane out there. not good
by jesus christos V2 on Aug 4, 2009 11:40 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
we're looking at straight-line winds here in Indianapolis right now.
It’s good times all through the Ohio Valley – we’ll see if they get tonight’s in.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Wow, that's nasty looking stuff on the radar...
… all the way from central Illinois through the Cincinnati area. Might be delayed if not postponed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It does look nasty, but I think they'll play
That line should be out of there by late afternoon. A delay or two wouldn’t surprise me, though.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Only a 40% chance of showers by game time
But looking at things right now, it’s ugly. I’d be surprised if it starts on time.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
TWSS
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
no idea why it triple posted
by jesus christos V2 on Aug 4, 2009 11:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Glad you didn't say beetlejuice.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
or candyman
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Or Aaron Miles
I know, it doesn’t follow the same logic. I just don’t like seeing his name.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
Or Mary Hartman
Because that’s only supposed to be twice.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 4, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Great Show
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
What's this comment about the Cubs
wanting Fox to go to the Instructional league this winter to learn 2B, as per Hershheiser? If that idea has come up this years, I’ve missed it completely.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Aug 4, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions
But then our manager down there will refuse to play him there.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Randy Wells is fantastic.
A great surprise for sure.
Please fix Marmol. Whatever it takes please do it.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
Give him a chance...
I think that if given the chance and worked with I think Marmol could fill the role as a closer……I hope the cubs dont give up on him so early and trade him away……Gregg on the other hand is not a closer….maybe middle relief but with a weak are that he has hes no closer.
RIP Rod Beck……..
um
With the exception of the two blown saves in Miami, Gregg was one of the best closers in the league since May.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Aug 4, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
well i dont know too much about gregg and his history. Wins losses etc but I dont think that he has a presence and pitches with confidence. Thas my opinion and im sticking with it. I am diehard cubbie blue but i would trade the south side closer for gregg in a heartbeat…….Bobby Jenks.
It helps the flow
of conversation if you use the reply feature.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
You know, it's been speculated that LaRussa
will manage the Reds next year. The flaw in this theory is that the Reds just traded for Scott Rolen. The REASON the Cards traded Rolen is because of the rift with TLR.
I think the Rolen trade puts the kabosh on the TLR to manage the Reds in 2010 rumor. There’s no way the Reds could trade Rolen without eating some of his contract or taking another bad contract back.
Hey, it's a new century!
yeah, i don't see him going to cincinatti.
i expect him to stay in st.louis for a few more years. otherwise, i think he’ll go to a team with more weapons.
"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie
The Cincinatti Bengals?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 4, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Well played, sir.
Well played.
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Aug 4, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I've read those rumors too, and you sure make an interesting point there.
The split when Rolen left wasn’t pretty, nor the comments made on either side thereafter.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Aug 4, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: Anyone by chance just catch Mark Grace on Jim Rome Is burnning???
Gracie was hilarious when talking about himself and steroids, and why he never did them. He did rip on the Chicago Media some. But he did talk about some of his favorite teammates— Said Kerry Wood, and Mcrae were his two favorite with Cubs. He had a funny line about himself and Mcrae and that had they not been running mates both their batting averages would have been 25 points higher.
how in the world can we justify
activating Miles and sending a pitcher down? Miles is useless, let him rot in the minors.
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