Questions: 2B, Carroll, Gorzellany, Rhodes
by nickler on Aug 5, 2009 4:10 PM CDT
Email
Print
1. Did anyone see Gorzellany pitch last night? What type of pitches does he have? I wish I had the chance, but we didn't get the game here. It sounds like he was really impressive.
What on earth were the Pirates thinking giving him up? Did they like Josh Harrison that much? Gorz had a great year in 2007, is the same age as Hart, and was doing great in AAA seemingly on his way to becoming the same pitcher he was before. For a young lefty who is under team control for many more years, it seems hard to understand how they could give him up like that.
Case in point: how good was Zach Duke the last 2 years? Wouldn't they want to hold onto him?
2. 2B seems to be a black hole for the team. Why not consider someone like Jamey Carroll of the Indians? At least the guy gets on base reliably. The other possibility would be Omar Infante, although I'm not sure Atlanta would give him up. Right about now, I really wish we would have just held onto the guy.
Even Michael Eckstein might be an upgrade... he has actually hit pretty well outside of Petfield (although that's really weird, since he is a slap hitter kind of guy and you'd expect the field shouldn't make that much of a difference).
I was hoping Fontenot would be good on an every day basis, but he has really disappointed.
3. As the bullpen is having problems, what about someone like Arthur Rhodes or David Weathers? I am thinking of people who might actually pass waivers.
It was my understanding that Hendry has some extra bucks to play with (I think we was going after Teahen) and people like this shouldn't cost a whole lot of dollars or prospects.
Thanks for your wisdom, as always!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
64 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
ooh, ooh, oooh, ooh, oooh - Wasn't he on Welcome Back Kotter?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
whoops
michael eckstein is a friend I work with!
I meant David, but you knew that.
No offense, but don’t you think ANYONE would be better at 2B right now??
Well, Aaron Miles is back.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Onedec?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 6, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding second base
the Cubs are trying to hold out until somebody from the farm system is ready. We’re really deep in the middle infield, and it would be foolish long-term to trade for a guy who is expensive and more limited than the guy who will be replacing him in a year… a guy who might be involved in the trade in the first place.
Since we are in a division (unlike the AL East) that you can win with a mediocre position or two, I would foresee the Cubs looking internally at a combo of Baker/Fonty/Theriot/Blanco/Darwin Barney in 2010. Oh, yeah, and Aaron Miles. Then in 2011, Starlin Castro, Tony Thomas, and maybe DJ LeMahieu will be ready to push as low-cost-in house options. By 2012 or so, Hak-Ju Lee may be ready to be added to the picture.
If we can cover 2B/SS/P/C (a couple brewing options there as well) , with low-cost homegrown quality, we can spend more judiciously (hopefully) on positions we can’t account for from within.
But if the Reds let Arthur Rhodes go on the cheap (Nate Samson?), I’d be all for it.
None of those prospects you mentioned are that impressive, though.
Castro, Thomas and LeMahieu have potential, but banking on one of them to be the long-term solution at 2B is a mistake, I think. Lee has the potential to be real good, and if he pans out, I see him as the long-term solution at SS. Maybe we can then move Theriot to 2B but that’s years away. 2B is the only position right now where I can see the Cubs making a significant upgrade. The corners are set with Lee and Ramirez. We’re stuck with Soriano, Fukudome and Bradley due to their contracts and Theriot’s a bargain at SS. And Soto’s still the guy at C unless he has continues to struggle next year.
Don't really need Arthur Rhodes.
Already have John Grabow.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
at the cost of nate samson
would you be willing to eliminate any excuse for using heilman?
The Cubs ALREADY have good excuses for not using Heilman.
He’s called Angel Guzman.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
/Jeff Stevens
Although he is (was?) a pretty good answer to the excuse for not using the Shark as well.
Not since they sent him to Iowa
and kept Shark. He did pitch a scoreless inning tonight. It bet it is nice for him to remember what the mound looks like.
"I daydream just like everybody else, I just do it with my body facing the field, so everybody thinks I'm paying attention."- Greg Maddux
by Doggie Stalker on Aug 7, 2009 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Right, that was the point of the "was?"
Can’t believe we have the inferior pitcher up here in our bullpen when it makes more sense for the Shark to be down in AAA still trying to work on becoming a starter. We get the worst of both worlds.
On 2nd base
If Fontenot continues to bat in the 7th spot, his power might be a better than the weak hitting but higher OBP Carroll. By the way, Fontenot has been better in July/August. I really doubt that an Infante, Eckstein, Carroll move would have been that much of an upgrade for the rest of the year. I expect that Fontenot in a strict platoon and playing 2nd will be ok. He won’t match 2008 but he should be better than May and June.
I agree
I think Fontenot’s bat will continue to come around. I’ll bet by years end his average will be around the .270 mark with maybe 13-15 HRS. I still think his playing 3rd for the extented time he did hurt his batting. So in short nix the thought of trying to involve more 2b into the mix.
Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.
Earlier this
year I made similiar statement when Lee was hitting something like .220. Someone replied that Lee would have to hit .360 to get back to his career norms. In all reality for Fontenot to hit .300 the rest of the year is quite possible.
Trade Doug Deeds to Washington.
2B isn't too much of a concern
I’m saying this because Soto will be back Friday.
I’m banking on Soto hitting near his career average numbers. If he can do that, a subpar hitter being in the 8th spot isn’t that bad and actually pretty normal on almost every team.
Maybe I'm not thinking of something...
…but why exactly would Rhodes or Weathers clear waivers?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Should have
Should have gone after Sanchez of the Pirates…300 average .. Or pushed for Brian Roberts .. Give up unproven talent for an basestealer , 280 – 285 average . Great glove … And a pure leadoff guy .. Fills two holes for the Cubs . 2nd base and leadoff hitter . The O’s are so far down in rankings I’m sure Mac Fail would have heard offers for young talent
Clearly, some Cubs fans will never let this go.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Even though Sanchez isn't that good
…and even thought the Giants gave up waaaaaay too much to get him. We seriously didn’t want to outbid them on Sanchez, given what they paid.
I think both Rhodes and Weathers will clear waivers.
But the Cubs don’t really need them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cubs got John Grabow.
Grabow can do what Rhodes can.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not even sure where to start with this post.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
You could read an excerpt from your biography.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
It would prove............
…………more cogent than this post.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Seriously, give us a paragraph.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Gilbert Gottfried
is doing the reading for tville’s bio for books on tape
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Aug 7, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
And, might I add,...........
………..does a most excellent job!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Seriously, give us a paragraph.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Curse you, BCB posting gremlins!
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I don't know too much about Jamey Carroll...
…but his stats show that he’s 35 years old and has gotten only 206 PAs so far this season – so I’m not sure whether he’d be an “everyday” solution at 2B, which is what everyone and his or her uncle’s brother’s half-sister seems to want. I guess the Cubs could pick him up off waivers – that high OBP is very nice – but if he’s just a utility guy, why do that when we have Andres Blanco (who will presumably recover from this mysterious “calf strain”)?
And regarding Gorzelanny, yeah, a bunch of us saw him pitch and you can read all about it in Al’s game recap. For a look at his pitches, check out this comprehensive breakdown by Harry Pavlidis.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Sure, he's a utility guy
but at least he’s a utility guy who gets on base.
He’s 35 and a one year kind of guy, but as a stopgap for the huge hole at 2B, and for cheap, wouldn’t you think it’s worth a gamble? Think of how well Kenny Lofton worked out for that one year.
I just don't see Jamey Carroll filling a "huge hole"
Fontenot’s slugging is higher than Carroll in spite of the significant difference in BA. So you could replace Fontenot with another spray hitter with no power. Not really sure that solves much.
Nah, I don't think it's really worth a gamble.
I just don’t see the second base situation as making or breaking this team. Last night’s gaffe aside, Fontenot is still a solid defender and he picked it up a little in July (.720 OPS for the month), and he’s hit pretty well so far in August. Patching that over with a random, aging utility guy probably won’t make that much of a difference.
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
I personally say about the 2B situation
Keep what we got now. Teach Jake Fox to play second in the offseason. done.
Like the idea
Heard Cub announcer the other day on TV talking about the Cubs are going to put Jake Fox in instructual league to teach him how to play 2 nd base .. Where else can you put his bat ? Sure do like his bat everyday in the lineup . Keep Fontenot as a good backup .
We have a solution for the second base problem
It’s call a Baker / Fontenot platoon. And we’re already doing that. Problem solved.
You & I don't often agree.
But on this, you are correct. Over time this will make a fine platoon.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have yet to be sold on the adequacy of Jeff Baker
I hope you are both right. I see 2B as a position that needs upgrading.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 6, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Lifetime vs. LHP...
… Baker is a .275/.337/.554 hitter with 14 HR in 222 AB. That implies that he can get back to that level at some point.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Again, I hope you are right.
I also hope that Mike Fonenot learns how to field his position properly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Aug 6, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm certainly with you on this al
Last year, Baker hit 12 homeruns in 299 at bats. That’s a 24 homerun pace. He also hit 268. I think if Font can produce a 260+ average the rest of the way, second base won’t be a problem.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 6, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
This year
Baker / Fontenot platoon .. Next year get Jake Fox at second base ..
Watching these "Trade x for y" posts is like....
flipping channels on sunday afternoons outside of football season. I’m really tired of trades and trade talk – unless it’s for some major upgrade (e.g. Heath Bell or Brian Roberts) at a key position. Yes.. I said Brian Roberts.. shoot me. Point is, at this point, we have a lot of modestly good players already when compared to what’s “available” on the market – especially with 19 of 30 MLB teams still in a shred of contention. We’re beyond tweaking and need to run the horses we have unless a total stud becomes available.
PS.. To nickler...
I’m still glad you posted this. I realize my comment was a little snarky, so sorry about that if it disrespected your post…
by DisCUBbobulated on Aug 6, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I simply can't believe............
………..Rondell White was not mentioned as an option to cure this team’s ills.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Maybe that could be a chapter in your next edition of your bio
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill
by lookingdeadred on Aug 7, 2009 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Nope.
Rondell is reserved for Nickler only.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Rondell White?
You mean the poor man’s Jacque Jones?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 7, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
But from the right side!
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
First of all...
Rondell is awesome. Period. Honestly, though, one year of him probably would have been better than the three years of Jaque Jones. So maybe I wasn’t that far off.
The bigger question is that there is much discussion of a Fontenot/Baker platoon. Maybe in time this will work. But Baker absolutely sucks right now. Don’t you think he needs to go to AAA for a while and get his groove back? And Fontenot can’t get on base.
The Twins just picked up Pavano for cheap (PTBNL). I am pretty sure at this point, the Indians would offer Carroll at a similar price. He is being paid 2.5 mill this year. I think that, for compensation of less than 1 million of that, the Indians would let him go for next to nothing.
My point is that this is not a “gamble”. This is an aging second baseman who is NOT in our long term plans who has a hot bat. For goodness sake, didn’t we pick up Steve Traschel a couple years ago? What do we have to lose?
Jamey Carroll is exactly what Aaron Miles was SUPPOSED to be this year. So we pick him up for next to nothing. Why not give it a go?
Jeff Baker has had only 41 PAs as a Chicago Cub. 41.
And please define “next to nothing.”
I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.
Likely
either cash only (pay for remainder of his contract) or PTBNL. The Indians gave up Pavano for this. This is also what we gave up for Steve Traschel.
The Indians are dying to shed payroll and get any prospect they can, even those that are low level.
I know Baker hasn’t been given much of a chance, but every time I have seen him (I know, very small sample size) he strikes out. When you watch that, combined with his BA in the 100’s you start to yell at the TV and get angry that he’s in the game. My feeling that he stinks is likely largely emotional, but his numbers certainly aren’t good at all.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
