Separated at birth - Derrek Lee & Paul Konerko: Who would you rather have on your team?

by dtpollitt on Aug 5, 2009 8:56 PM CDT Comment 90 comments

My roommate, a die-hard White Sox fan, and I were discussing the value of Derrek Lee & Paul Konerko. Both of us agreed that our respective first baseman is the better choice. I'll let Bleed Cubbie Blue make the decision. I'll be posting this to South Side Sox, too, but need to wait a day to activate my membership. I'll be certain to link to the results.

Without further ado, I'll present the facts as straightforward as possible. All statistics found below can be found using Baseball-Reference, FanGraphs, Baseball Prospectus, Cot's Baseball Contracts, and Fantasy Pitch FX, and is current as of 08/05/09.

Both players are 33 years of age, and entered MLB in 1997, and have played nearly the exact same number of games (1632 & 1652). Derrek will turn 34 a few months before Paul.

Both players are right-handed hitters and fielders; they are approximately of the same stature: 6'3-5 & 205 lbs.

Derrek has been healthy throughout his career, with a broken wrist a few years ago, but this year has been bothered by back problems. Paul has been even healthier, with only one short DL stint in his career.

Lee has made nearly $58M in his career; Paul, $66M. Both are signed through 2010.

Paul has been selected to the all-star game three times, Lee, twice; Lee has three Gold Gloves, Konerko has zero. Lee was third in MVP voting in 2005, Konerko was sixth that same year; Lee has a Silver Slugger award, Konerko has a ALCS MVP trophy.

Both players have a world series ring; Lee in 2003, Konerko in 2005.

Lee has a career OPS+ of 123; Konerko, 116, but Paul has slightly more HR (318 vs. 280) and RBI (1026 vs. 900). Lee steals a lot more bases (100 vs. 7) and strikes out a lot more (1345 vs. 956). Lee's wOBA is exactly .010 points higher than that of Konerko's, but the former's BaBIP is .040 points higher than the latter's. Paul hits fly balls over 50% of the time; Lee, however, hits the ground ball nearly as much. Paul hits into more GIDP than all but 6 of his peers; Derrek is 29th on this same active list. Paul is about to crack the all-time top 100 HR hitters list; Derrek is 148th on this same career list.

In the playoffs, both have appeared in 5 series, with the Cub in 103 PAs vs. Sox 79 PAs. Lee's power seems to escape him in the playoffs (dropping .188 in the post-season), whereas Konerko's is raised by .002 points, and is .167 better than Lee's overall.

As for fielding, the two's percentage could not be closer - .995 for Paul, .994 for Derrek. Derrek's UZR/150 is -0.2, Paul's is -1.0. Derrek has nearly 600 more putouts at 1B. Derrek's range and errors above average are better than Paul's.

Lee's career WARP is significantly higher than Konerko's: 48.2 vs. 28.9. Finally, WAR for the two: 28.3 (Lee) vs. 17.4 (Konerko). FanGraph's converted WAR into dollars values Lee's performance as over $35M higher than Konerko's.

A few of my thoughts:

I do not know of two professional ball players that could be more similar, and from the same city to boot! In fact, BR has their "Most Similar" as being each other. These two guys hit for power, play good (if not sometimes over-valued defense, at least in Lee's case) defense, have won World Series, and are proven leaders on their respective teams.

For those BCBers that cried out last year about Lee's GIDP-ing, it could be worse. Lee doesn't hit into double plays nearly as much as Pauly. Derrek fails to hit for much power, or to drive in runs, during the playoffs. Konerko's performance during the post-season is as solid as his regular season performance. Lee seems to really benefit from his speed; his stolen bases total is much higher, his BaBIP is significantly higher (.40!), and he hits for more doubles and scores more runs. Lee's speed also seems advantageous to his fielding, where he performs better defensively and covers more ground, while making fewer errors in more put outs. Konerko is the typical power hitter; he hits the majority of his balls in the air, and is well situated in the 4 or 5 spot in any lineup.

If I must choose, I select Lee. Statistics show (although by tiny margins in some cases) that Lee is a more valuable player (WARP, WAR, UZR, OPS+, wOBA, BaBIP all show this). Qualitatively, I think both players are leaders, represent their team well, and are excellent baseball players. I wouldn't have a problem with Konerko.

Dan

PS - My roommate Chad will read this, and he sucks. You can tell him this, too. Go Cubs.

Poll

Who would you rather have on your team?

Derrek Lee

307 votes

Paul Konerko

49 votes

356 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

4 recs | Comment 90 comments

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Comments

I'll take Lee

For his defensive presence. Overall he is a better package IMO. Konerko seems like a great guy though so this really is a great debate.

"The more i practice, the luckier i seem to get" -Yogi Berra

by ChiCubsFever on Aug 5, 2009 9:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I voted for Lee,

he has a way of bringing the team up when they are down, and I just like the guy. Konerko, good player as well, tough call! My Cub heart chooses Lee though.

by Fonzie2178 on Aug 5, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Speaking from a ballhawk perspective, I gotta go with Konerko

When he first came up with the Dodgers, I was drooling, thinking here’s somebody with Billy Ashley power that looks like he’s actually going to play for awhile. Well, Pauly didn’t quite have Ashley-power (few do), but he’s certainly played for awhile and has been very good to us ballhawks in the limited games he’s played at Wrigley. Don’t get me wrong – Lee’s been in close contact with Waveland Ave. many times, but if they played the same number of games at Wrigley, Pauly would definitely have the edge in street shots, probably by a large margin.

Speaking as a fan though, I’d probably go with Lee for the overall package – speed, defense, athleticism, etc. It’d be a close call though. If I could tweak just one thing about Lee, it’s his leadership style. I wish he were a bit more vocal. Maybe he is in the clubhouse – we’re not privy to that. But I would have liked to see a bit more visible assertiveness over the years. I understand that’s not his style though, and I certainly do appreciate the quiet leadership and strong example he sets for the rest of the team.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 5, 2009 9:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Lee is a good person ...

… and a very good baseball player. In my experience, Sox fans in general have great respect for Lee, as do I.

You would not be wrong in choosing Lee. However, I’ll take Paul Konerko for how he came thru for the Sox when it mattered most, with absolutely no disrespect meant towards Lee.

"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009

by DrCrawdad on Aug 5, 2009 9:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is exactly what my roommate said, Crawdad.

Konerko is more valuable and revered than Lee because his WS ring happened with the White Sox, whereas Lee’s came at the Cubs’ expense in 2003. Then again, I tried to disseminate the facts of each player, not the myth behind the man. As Chad (roommate) said, “No White Sox fan would trade Konerko for Lee, and no Cubs fan would trade Lee for Konerko”.

Like I said, I’ll post this @ SSS tomorrow when my membership is complete.

Dan

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 5, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A legend to some a myth to none.

Then again, I tried to disseminate the facts of each player, not the myth behind the man. As

Paul Konerko is no mythical figure.

Myth is a poor choice of words, however I think I know what you mean, but Konerko status has been achieved because of what he accomplished on the field of play. Perhaps cemented his status with his gesture of turning over the ball to Reinsdorf and then resigning with the Sox (when my Cubbie fan friends were talking about World Series TV ratings and how Konerko was set to flee the Sox).

As I typed this Konerko launched a bomb against the Angels.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 5, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong word.

I was thinking “fact versus opinion” and “man versus myth” came to mind. We’re on the same page here.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 5, 2009 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very good to great.

I teetered between very good to great in my description of Lee.

Derrek Lee may very well be better in the key areas of comparison, but Konerko hit the shot, caught the final out of the World Championship run & turned the ball over to Reinsdorf at the celebration. I think most Sox fans will be hard pressed to say, “oh, I’d rather have had Lee.”

by DrCrawdad on Aug 5, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko is a very good player...

… and as you say, a key part of a World Series winning team.

I’ll still take Derrek Lee, primarily because he’s a better fielder.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 6, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would be interested

to have seen how this would have been debated if Lee and Konerko had played on opposite sides of town. Would Konerko and Lee have had the same lines, or would they skew much differently.

That being said, I respect them both and to me the glove of Lee wins this one, but neither is a bad answer. Konerko also had to take over for Frank Thomas, so there was added pressure IMO over Lee coming in to replace Hee Sop Choi.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 6, 2009 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you until the Big Hurt pressures.

By the time Konerko arrived, Big Frank was a DH and a prototypical first baseman was needed. Not to take over from Frank, but to take attention from Frank.

Paulie was the perfect fit on the southside to balance the Frank persona. One is the former football star, flashy, hip hop record producer, former household name, big contract, who loved to discuss every hangnail with the media the other is a lunch bucket type with a 5 o’clock shadow at 7am always available with the media but gives the quiet answers and was cost minimal on arrival.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The pitching staff

won that World Series more than Konerko did. If Lee is a better hitter (he has a higher career OPS), and is a better fielder (I don’t think that’s in question), than in what way is Konerko better? Because he has a World Series ring? By that logic, you’d rather have Trent Dilfer as your QB than Dan Marino.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Aug 6, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah and that Grand Slam in Game 2...

… with 2 outs in the 7th inning with the Sox down by 2 runs, meaningless.

Paul Konerko
2005 post-season
5 HRS
15 RBI

By that logic, you’d rather have Trent Dilfer as your QB than Dan Marino.

I’m not much of a football fan. I don’t really know much about Trent Dilfer. So I don’t really appreciate your comparison.

Konerko is a very good slugger, good hitter and an decent 1st bagger. Konerko played a key role in the Sox World Series Championship and Konerko continues to produce at a high level, for these things I’d take Paul Konerko.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 7, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The ironic thing here

is that Lee really had one of the key hits in NLCS Game Six v. the Cubs, the bases loaded double that knocked Prior from the game, but no one really wants to talk about that in comparing Lee to Konerko. I think I’ve even read one message that ignored Lee’s own WS ring.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Aug 7, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad you brought it up

So I didn’t have to. Lee happened to be pretty clutch for the Marlins, though I choose to pretend that it didn’t happen.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 7, 2009 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're talking about right now

We’re talking about right now not 2005.

I think if we were to put Lee on one side of a scale and Konerko on the other it would balance each other out as some things Konerko is better at, some things Lee is better at so they come out about equal.

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 7, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good question Dan...

I watch most Sox games with a neutral opinion. Konerko is a good first baseman and very good at digging out throws. He is also a very dangerous hitter with runners in scoring position. As most people know, the thing about Konerko is he can’t run a lick.

Lee is a similar player to Konerko with respect to batting average. He is however an excellent first baseman, as we all know, and has average to slightly above average speed.

Konerko has the edge in the power department, altough Lee has been hitting more HR’s this year, but when you add in the baserunning and slightly better fielding, my vote goes to Lee.

by cubfanwill on Aug 5, 2009 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No offense to Konerko

but having had the pleasure of watching Derrek play for my team the past 5+ years, I cannot vote against him. I’ve seen him do way too many special things in a Cubs uniform, but I’m sure any Sox fan would say the same about Konerko. This is the beauty of baseball, and the loyalties associated with being a fan.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Aug 5, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you should add Hee Seop Choi as a third option

In all seriousness, I’m surprised they are so alike… I have to go with Lee out of both Cub loyalty and last name solidarity. Now if only the Cubs could have gotten Cliff we would almost have the full set…

by hmlee on Aug 5, 2009 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm reminded of the song...

Ebony and Ivory… together and perfect harmony. Lee and PK really are complimentary hitters. PL has a TON of power, and Lee is a contact hitter who can flash some power. They are pretty similar, but I’m going to have to tip my hat towards Derrek here. Not just because of what he’s done for the Cubs since he signed… Not for what he’s done for the community and not just because of Project 3000… mainly just because I like him better, and that’s my opinion.

By the way, I bet if you polled 200 fans, 100 Cubs fans and 100 Sox fans, you’d get a straight 50/50 split because ultimately PK and Lee pretty much represent the same player to each respective team, which is pretty cool. We’re both lucky to have such awesome players at the same time in the same town.

by lswaidz on Aug 5, 2009 9:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This is weird, because this exact same debate happened a few days ago on SSS

I anticipate the post, though I’m fairly confident you can just take the opposite of the poll results here and get your answer. Konerko is beloved my almost everyone, but some people aren’t fond of his icy relationship with Frank Thomas or the current large contract.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 5, 2009 10:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Chad, you suck

just saying

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Aug 5, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn, I knew I was forgetting something in my response earlier... ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 5, 2009 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dan should have him join

So we can all reply to all his comments saying he sucks!!!

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 6, 2009 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dan should just amend his sig, so it's a daily occurrence.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have a feeling that the Sox fans will take Paulie

and we will take Derrek.

Both play great defense at first, and Lee’s hitting is a bit better while Konerko has more power.

Since a part of me wonders what Lee’s numbers would look like without the wrist injury, I’ll take him.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 5, 2009 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You hit on exactly what I was thinking.

Both players have had long stretches of suck over the last two years. Both have come out of them, but Konerko has endured large slumps with no obvious physical issue. Most of Lee’s decline can be tied back to the wrist and whatever swing changes Lee alludes have changed to put him in the current Zone.

Konerko’s slumps, when they appear, seem more mysterious.

Konerko gets points for having a won his ring in town, but I will go with Lee where in addition to being a Cub, has some foot speed, gold gloves (representative of his fielding even though the award itself is flawed), and (I believe) has solved his hitting woes.

As much as I like Konerko, if he gets any slower as he ages, the only way he’ll be safe at first base is to hit a HR.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what strikes me most about both Lee and Konerko?

They are two of the best people in baseball.

Both have represented Chicago with the utmost class.

I am proud that both have played the best years of their career in Chicago and we’ve had the privilege to watch them play.

My heart is with D-Lee but I’d be proud to have Konerko as a Cub.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Aug 5, 2009 11:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You know

just last night I was just remembering how much I loved Spy Magazine—at least its glory years of 1988 to 1991. After that it was crap. But for three or four years, it was fracking brilliant.

(In case you are wondering the relevance here, Spy created and trademarked the phrase “Separated at Birth.”)

by Josh77 on Aug 6, 2009 12:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

No doubt about it Konerko

One is a future hall of famer while the other one is a future player on the disabled list a couple times a season rememberr it was only earlier this season Cubbie fans were talking about getting rid of D lee

take it easy
why care about a bloggers grammar
no matter how much you hate me you still read and comment me

by angryandy on Aug 6, 2009 2:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he isn't a hall of famer.

Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball

by lexmarklover on Aug 6, 2009 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

hall of very good though.

Milton ...... see the ball hit the ball

by lexmarklover on Aug 6, 2009 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mentioning either of these guys.............

………..and the Hall of Fame in the same sentence is simply absurd.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 6, 2009 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True.

The White Sox have a probable HOF first baseman on the roster and it isn’t Konerko.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct.

And they have a former 1B who has not yet retired (I think?) who will also be in the HOF.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 6, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you and N Oakley are talking about the same player.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 6, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have two players in mind.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 6, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One's Thome the other is Thomas.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Frank Thomas has officially retired.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 6, 2009 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Retired in last 2 years or still playing

first baseman/DH in a HOF discussion, not yet eligible (this is not a McGuire discussion)

Thomas
Thome
Pujols – ROY, 2 MVP, second for MVP 3x, WS, and 9 straight years of OMG.
Bagwell?
Anyone else?

(I don’t see Giambi, Delgado, Helton in the discussion, Palmiero’s a separate conversation)

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thomas and Thome were the Sox players.

Baggie’s numbers are pretty good. Assuming he dodges any PED discussions, it seems likely he’d be selected

I think Helton will have a shot. The .327 BA is hard to overlook, along with the Gold Gloves, All-Star appearances, etc. Coors may have had an impact in HRs at one time, but I’d say the .327 is hardly Coors-aided. If he makes a solid push over the next 3-5 years, he should have a legitimate shot.

Bagwell’s replacement, Lance Berkman, might also make the cut, but that’s a few years in the offing.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Aug 6, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking I forgot about Berkman, but

I looked him up and didn’t realize he was already 33.

.300/.413/.558 are pretty good. 306 HR, 1016 RBI, 1530 Hits are also pretty darned good for 10.5 seasons. If Berkman can play a productive 4 more years and whether he’s viewed more as an OF or 1B may tip the scales in either direction.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Helton has an outside shot at 3000 hits, depending on how long he plays.

If he gets there, obviously, he’s in.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 6, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's had a great career and has spectacular triple slash numbers.

Not sure he has it in him to eek out another 927 hits turning 36 this month, but he’s in if he gets there. Averaging near 175 hits a year would require another 5.29 seasons. Be hard to do, but I hope he can do it.

3000 hits is an amazing accomplishment.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 6, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ballpark Effects

In my opinion, park effects are a big reason why it isn’t more clear that Derrek Lee is the superior player. Derrek’s superiority shows up in OPS+, which is factored to account for park effects. Consider the park effects for these guys side by side subce 2001.

2008 – The Cell – HR 1.353; R 1.126
2008 – Wrigley – HR 1.163; R 1.068

2007 – The Cell – HR 1.220; R 1.084
2007 – Wrigley – HR 1.150; R 1.172

2006 – The Cell – HR 1.307; R 1.054
2006 – Wrigley – HR 1.212; R 1.075

2005 – The Cell – HR 1.383; R 1.050
2005 – Wrigley – HR 1.054; R 1.013

2004 – The Cell – HR 1.402; 1.139 R
2004 – Wrigley – HR 1.329; 1.123 R

2003 – The Cell – HR 1.329; R 0.971
2003 – Pro Player – HR 0.690; R 0.828

2002 – Comiskey – HR 1.200; R 1.057
2002 – Pro Player – HR 0.737; R 0.939

2001 – Comiskey – HR 1.257; R 1.058
2001 – Pro Player – HR 0.956; R 0.923

You can see how extreme the differences in park effect were for Lee and Konerko when they were coming into their primes. Derrek Lee spent his age 22-27 seasons playing in a home park that swallows HRs. Konerko, on the other hand, has played nearly all his career in a home park that launches HRs.

For example, from 2001-2003, Derrek hit 51 HRs in away games, while Paul hit 36 HRs in away games.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Aug 6, 2009 6:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yup, I considered throwing those in, too.

But felt as if the Sox fans would think I was cherry-picking Lee-favored statistics. I think it’s pretty clear Paul benefits from a juicebox of a ballpark.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 6, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Psh, stop using this mumbo jumbo

Can you explain why Land Shark (what an awful name) is such a HR haven this season? I don’t follow the Marlins in any form, so it’s pretty confusing how a football stadium could be such a launching pad.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 6, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't explain specifically why it's been easier to hit HRs this year.

Sometimes all it takes is removing or adding a little architecture and the wind blows differently. I’m not following the fish any more than you, or for that matter, anyone, so I don’t know if they altered the stadium or if it’s just an odd year.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Aug 6, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko's also played his entire career in the AL, while Lee plays in the much easier league

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Aug 10, 2009 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always thought pitchers were impacted

by the differences of the leagues due to the AL using the DH. I’m not sure the impact for hitters is as great.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Aug 11, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that pitchers have the same ERA in both leagues

Despite the presence of the DH, implies that the average AL Pitcher is better.

F*** Billy Beane... actually, I kinda like Holliday

by vivaelpujols on Aug 11, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lee

because I hated him when he was on the Marlins. Always got the clutch hit. And then we goth him. Not to mention he’s saved probably a billion throwing errors.

by beckmania on Aug 6, 2009 6:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

*got

although a goth DLee would be pretty dope.

by beckmania on Aug 6, 2009 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I need a photoshopped goth DLee.

Immediately. Someone make this happen.

by KDoggers on Aug 7, 2009 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Incidentally...

… this is a good example of how to make a good FanPost — it’s a topic that hasn’t been covered before, makes an interesting point, is well written and backed up with facts and statistics.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 6, 2009 7:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Thanks Al!

I have moments of blackout, every few months or so…

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The reason Paulie's fielding pct is .995

is because he can’t get to so many balls, he can’t even be charged with the error.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 6, 2009 10:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I bet

BLou voted for Konerko.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Aug 6, 2009 9:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Blou is still looking for his fav 1B

Slumpy McSlumpster

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 7, 2009 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Although

officially Lee took over for Choi, the player he “replaced” is Mark Grace. Derrek has done a great job in the line of great Cub first basemen. Lee is a better fielder than Koberko and seems like a nicer guy.

by ChicagoRobb on Aug 6, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

but there was some time between Lee and Grace

and Stairs and Choi both took thier shots there. He was not the first one in line.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 7, 2009 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lee & Grace.

Sounds like a TV sitcom.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 7, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and let's not forget ol' Uncle Fred...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 7, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Karros and Simon

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 7, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Update from Chad (roommate):

“Awesome internet friends, Dan. I bet out of the entire population of your friends, over/under on gotten laid: 6.”

LOLOLOLOL

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 6, 2009 11:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh... here's the real test of friendship then...

Did he take the over or the under?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Aug 7, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Konerko

Konerko is one of my favorite players in baseball.

Lee is my 2nd favorite player on the Cubs.

I think when all is said and done they are about equal.

First base has been well manned in Chicago for a long time.

From someone long involved in the Chicago charity community, you can’t ask for 2 classier and friendlier guys.

(Buerhle and Konerko are not only my 2 favorite Sox players they are 2 of my favorite players period)

Konerko also went through a very rough situation off the field a few years ago that got little publicity. I felt so bad for him. So did Buerhle.

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 7, 2009 12:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Another question

Here’s one what is the best position in Chicago baseball right now if you combine the 2 players?

I’d say 1st base is it.

3rd base if Beckham stays there will take over though.

I adore Beckham. While I love Buerhle and Konerko since Beckham can play SS I’d take him in a second if the Cubs could take 1 player off the Sox.

Okay Sox fans who visit if the Sox could have 1 Cub, money and what you’d have to trade notwithstanding who would you take?

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If I had to pick a positional player, either Fukudome or Aramis

A pitcher, Zambrano. I loathe the man, but he’s one of the best pitchers in baseball.

The Chicago Bulls.....the more profitable Los Angeles Clippers.

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 7, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My head hurts.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And conversely...

… as a Cubs fan, the one Sox pitcher I’d take right now is, obviously, Buehrle.

Position player? Carlos Quentin. He can be a game-changer, if he can stay healthy.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 7, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinda sounds like Milty's rep before he came over

Ball 4!

by californiachicagoan on Aug 7, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Beckham

If I were to take a position player.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 7, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you talking to yourself?

Adore Beckham? Love Buerhle and Konerko? Umm, don’t look now, but I think you are a Sox fan.

Ball 4!

by californiachicagoan on Aug 7, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ironically

Ironically there have been times the past 2 seasons when the fandoms of their teams wanted them to be taken out back and beaten with a stick.

It got so bad the Sox fans were clamoring for Micah Hoffpauir too!

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 7, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Really? Never saw that or heard anything like that.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 7, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For awhile on the Score if the call wasn’t a Cubs fan demanding Lee be taken out and shot it was a Sox fan calling to have the same done to Konerko.

The Hoffpauir thing was a joke. It was only some Cub fans.

By the way I liked your quote. Your a good example of how a fan of a rival can be a positive presence on a board. Yes there have been a few kerfuffles but nothing horrible.

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 9, 2009 7:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha!

The Hoffpauir thing was a joke. It was only some Cub fans.

I just wondered about that. Not as a putdown of the ‘Pauir but just hadn’t heard Sox fans pining for him.

Your a good example of how a fan of a rival can be a positive presence on a board. Yes there have been a few kerfuffles but nothing horrible.

That won’t win you many friends here. With your permission, I’d like to add your comment to my sig.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 10, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

9% votes for Konerko?

I guess this establishes how many non-Cub fans read this site.

Ball 4!

by californiachicagoan on Aug 7, 2009 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Dr. Crawdad...

Angry Andy…

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 7, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Derek Lee is a damn good ballplayer, why...

… would I be surprised or angry if on a Cubbie site 91% voted for him?

by DrCrawdad on Aug 7, 2009 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not surprised

Are you?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 8, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would look different if we were comparing the talents of let’s see gosh in reality most of the positions in town are pretty evenly matched. I can’t think of one where one team has a true standout heads and shoulders above the crosstown equivalent.

I had to delete my twitter account. But you can still find me at fanfiction.net under puckish prosecutor.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Aug 9, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

RF, Dye/Bradley...

… the standout there is clear.

And LF. Neither Pods nor Soriano will win Gold Gloves, but Pods is having a fantastic year offensively.

by DrCrawdad on Aug 9, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, I'm a Cubs fan, but I voted for Konerko.

I considered who I would rather have going forward, and Lee’s nagging injuries (the back and neck more so than the wrist) concern me, even if their contracts only go for another year. Lee is likely the superior player (although the steals stat is pretty misleading- he doesn’t run much anymore), but he is also more fragile.

by Pat19 on Aug 10, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe Konerko has a thumb injury that has bothered him for quite a while.

He is on a schedule of cortisone shots that allow him to continue to play. This is something that will likely bother him for the rest of his career.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Aug 11, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by Ozzie Montana on Aug 11, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm?

If we’re talking having them from when they entered the league I’d edge Derek Lee, if we’re talking about having them going forward I’d slightly more edge towards Paul Konerko.

by Ohpityme on Aug 8, 2009 8:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs