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Do the Cubs have what it takes to win the World Series?




Like all of us here I want nothing more than to see the Cubs win the World Series this year. While I had my doubts about us making the playoffs, I don't have them as much now as long as the team gets healthy. Many people say "just get in and then anything could happen" this logic started to really take off after the 2006 Cardinals limped into the playoffs with 83 wins and somehow won the World Series.

I think the "just get in" philopsophy is a bit flawed and that one outlier (2006 STL) has made us people think that any flawed team could win it all if they just make it. So I wanted to see two things- does the team that wins it all each year follow a sort of formula or pattern, and just how many times does an underdog go on to win it all.

I started from the beginning of the Wild Card era (1995) and went all the way up to this past season.

 

1995 Atlanta Braves- The Braveswon 90 games in the strike shortened 1995 season, second in all of baseball behind Cleveland who won 100 games. The Braves had most of their success with a lights out pitching staff that included Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz. Their closer that season was Mark Wohlers who was having a sensational year closing out games.

Tom Glavinewas their WS MVP with a 1.29 WS ERA and 5 earned runs allowed in 4 postseason starts. Their star hitter for the season, Ryan Klesko, hit 3 homers in the WS and hit .316 in the playoffs despite not getting a hit in the LCS.

1996 New York Yankees- The Yankeeswon 92 games in 1996 and beat the defending champion Braves in the World Series. The Yankees were pretty average statistically during the season, getting a boost from the return of David Cone. The bullpen was the main strength of this team, closer John Wetteland was pretty good, but he had help from some hot shot set up man named Mariano Rivera.

Wetteland won the WS MVP in a pitching dominated series.

1997 Florida Marlins- Another 92 win team, this time the Wild Card entrant, the Marlins were led by a dynamic pitching duo of Kevin Brown and young gun Livan Hernandez. Hitters like Mosies Alou and Gary Sheffield led an offense full of future big names.

Hernandez won the WS MVP (There's a pattern starting to develop here) with a 4-0 postseason record (though he didn't have a great World Series with a 5.27 ERA).

1998 New York Yankees- This is the outlier to match the 2006 St. Louis outlier. The Yankees won 114 games in 1998 and breezed through the playoffs. This team had great starting pitching, a great offense, and Mariano Rivera. Nothing can be gained from look at this postseason

1999 New York Yankees- Just another great hitting, great pitching, great bullpen Yankee team. This team faced little trouble in the postseason and did so despite having nine games played by a certain guess hitting hack. I would be more impressed by these Yankees teams if their roster didn't read like a copy of the Mitchell report.

Mariano won the MVP, again I don't know how much we can take from these Yankees teams other than to say they were just that good.

2000 New York Yankees- This version of the Yankees machine rode Roger Clemensand Andy Pettite to glory. Along with Rivera closing out games and Derek Jeterbeing Mr. Clutch. Jeter won the MVP.

I'll stop here for a moment because I think this is a turning point of sorts. From the end of the strike to 2000 the Braves, Indians, and Yankees sort of ruled baseball. Typical Marlins sneaking in and winning one. I would have started the analysis at 2001, but I thought it was important to show that a top to bottom solid pitching staff and mediocre offense was able to attain postseason success. Right now the "formula" seems like ride two or three great starting pitchers, have a lights out closer, and score just enough runs to win. After 2000 is when it gets interesting.

2001 Arizona Diamondbacks- This postseason run is all Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. This is also the only World Series team that this decade that didn't have a dominating closer (until Johnson took care of that in game 7). Luis Gonzalez got some big hits, and was the best hitter throughout the postseason, but the D-Backs offense (with the exception of a 15 run game 6) really didn't go very much the entire postseason.

2002 Anaheim Angels- The Angels may have been the wild card team this season, but they won 99 games so they were obviously a really good team. They had solid starting pitching, but their postseason boost came from having the best 1-2 end of game punch since the 1996 Yankees. Troy Percival and some guy named K-Rod who threw in 5 games during the regular season (Andrew Cashner anyone?). It also helped that they clubbed the living daylights out of teams thanks to Adam Kennedy and Troy Glaus.

This Angels team actually had pretty mediocre starting pitching over the course of the playoffs, but they scored so many runs that combined with those two guys at the end of the game it didn't matter.

2003 Florida Marlins- Also known as the Josh Beckett/Miguel Cabrerapostseason. The Marlins also had a pretty damn good closer in Ugueth Urbina. We all know how they made it to the World Series, and in the series itself they didn't hit very much, but Beckett was so good, and Urbina was able to close out games that they didn't need many runs.

Now the Marlins were the Wild Card team, but their 91 wins were more than the Cubs, and the fact that Beckett was so freaking good made their run less random.

2004 Boston Red Sox- The Red Soxwere the Wild Card team, but they won 98 games that season so, again, we aren't talking about a mediocre baseball team. This is another story that we all know. The Red Sox made it through this postseason because of a great offense and a lights out closer Keith Foulke.

2005 Chicago White Sox- The Sox won 99 games this season, and rode the greatest starting pitching staff performance of all time to a World title. They also had Bobby Jenksto finish out the postseason games. Their offense wasn't exactly on fire during the postseason, but as is the pattern of these good pitching teams, it did just enough. Remeber in that World Series they had a couple of walk off homers and a 14 inning game.

2006 St. Louis Cardinals- The team that will forever give mediocre teams hope that really isn't there. Simply put the only thing his team had going for it was Albert Pujols and he hit .200 in the World Series. A hot hand in Jeff Weaver and a young closer named Adam Wainwright were key to St. Louis shocking the world. Even in the extreme case of mediocrity coming through to win, they still had a dominating closer and Chris Carpenter's great starting pitching.

2007 Boston Red Sox- This version of the Red Sox reminded me of those old Yankee teams a bit. Great everything. They could hit, had the starting pitching, and Papelbon was dancing his way through the ninth inning. Of course having Josh Beckett in the postseason never hurts, and if you haven't noticed yet, a great ninth inning guy is at a premium here.

2008 Philadelphia Phillies- Cole Hamels and Brad Lidgewere the stars here, along with a pretty good offense. Now obviously this wasn't the best regular season team in the NL, but they had 92 wins and arguably a more "post season built" roster (more on that in a moment).

Once again ending the game with a dominating guy, and having a lights out starter for 2-3 games in a series prove too much to stop.

 

So what did I gather from all of that? There are three ways teams have won a World Series since the Wild Card started. On fire starting pitching from one or two guys, a game over closer, and a mashing offense. Usually 2 of the 3 are needed to win. There have been teams with all 3 (Yankees 1998-2000; Boston 2007) but never a team with just one. Even the 2001 Diamondbacks needed Randy Johnson to play closer in order to win game 7. The question is now- Do the Cubs have right now, or have the capability to get in October, two of these things.

Our starting pitching is deep, but is there a guy capable of dominating a series? Rich Hardencould be that guy, but he isn't capable of pitching long enough to fill that role. Dempster doesn't have good enough stuff and as sad as it might be to say, neither does Ted. That means its on the shoulders of Big Z to dominate, he has the stuff and the ablility, but its all about him getting his head on straight.

Our bullpen is lacking that lights out guy. Teams have shown (1996 Yankees, 2002 Angels) that starting pitching doesn't have to be great if you can make the game 7 innings long. Basically Carlos Marmolbecomes the wild card or all wild cards here. Him finding the strikezone is the key to the Cubs filling this part of a World Series puzzle, if he doesn't find a way to throw strikes, we might as well forget filling this part. Gregg is a guy, and not a guy that is going to set the postseason on fire. Guzman is good, but by October his arm will be fried. Perhaps Andrew Cashner can come up and be a K-Rod type guy. Still Carlos Marmol's command may in fact hold the Cubs World Series hopes.

The third possible key is a mashing offense. Really only the 2002 Angels used this instead of a dominating starting pitcher. Still offense is the Cubs issue this season and has been the past two postseasons. Without runs scored, there won't be any wins. Obviously the Cubs have good hitters, and these teams tended to lean on one or two guys to carry them. Soriano, Lee, and Rami are all capable of doing that. Its simply a matter of them getting the job done.

So hypothetically the Cubs could have all three things working for them, Carlos Marmol is the most important factor, because without him dominating out of the bullpen this whole discussion is kind of pointless. It comes down to if Big Z can step up, if Marmol can get it together, if Soriano or Rami can get hot. There may seem to be a randomness to the playoffs, but with the exception of the 2006 Cardinals, hindsight shows that the winners were all pretty predictable. Look for a team that has a lights out ace, a lights out closer, and just enough offense. Then you will find your World Champion.  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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We have exactly what it takes to win a WS.

A Major League baseball team.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2009 11:52 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 7, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of couse Al also has what it takes to win the Boston Marathon...

two legs. So take my first comment with a grain of salt.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Aug 7, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

This was a very detailed analysis and obviously took a great deal of thought and work.

But the truth is, getting into the playoffs is much harder than winning the World Series (although it might not have seemed that way the last two years).

Once you get in, it’s a crapshoot, and the best regular season team doesn’t always win, as we have learned.

The key is to get in and then have a manager who is willing to think outside the box when it comes to winning playoff games.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 7, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Lou is what worries me sometimes

He just doesnt seem to think outside the box. He made the one interesting move with marshal to the outfield then back, but he just always seems to play by the book. He must use his lefties against only 1 batter and that’s it.

Tweeting about the Cubs most of the time from @jmkobus

by jkobus on Aug 7, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is my biggest and most angry complain with the idiot that is Bud Selig.

Baseball playoffs should be ranked, like EVERY OTHER MAJOR SPORT. There’s no f-ing incentive to win 99 or 109 games when everything resets for the playoffs! The best team/s in each league should be rewarded for their regular season successes, and the worst (or wild cards), punished. I don’t care how you figure it out, but there should be a reason for teams to play all 162 games.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

???

they are ranked in baseball – the best record in each league plays the wild card team in the 1st round – 1 seed vs. 4 seed. that is the reward and punishment you seek.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by joeschmitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wildcard

being the Wildcard doesn’t mean you have a worse record than the other teams, it just means you had the best record of the non-division winners. Maybe, dtpollitt would like to see the team with the best/worse record play each other in the 1st round.

"Stay thirsty my friends."

by bigz38fan on Aug 7, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would prefer this as well

They’re trying to avoid division rivals playing each other in the first round. I understand that but I’d much rather that the team with the best record be rewarded by playing the team with the worst.

Another idea would be letting the team with the best record pick their opponent.

by madcow256 on Aug 7, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect this is for television ratings more than anything else.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Continuing things here

I actually would prefer if baseball adopted a form of NFL’s playoff system. I don’t like the road for a WC team being the same length, or having the same degree of difficulty as any other team.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Aug 7, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There was once some talk about...

… giving the WC team the first game at home, but then giving their opponent the next four games at home. That might be interesting.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 7, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WC degree of difficulty

As much as I hate the wildcard, I like the idea some have proposed of having TWO wildcards. The teams would meet for a one game series and then the winner would face the division winner with the most wins the next day. Presumably the WC team would burn its best pitcher in the WC game, making it that much more difficult for the WC to advance (and also reward the team with the most wins). MLB would need to change the rule that the wildcard can’t face their own division winner in the first round.

by cliff on Aug 7, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting indeed...

It does make the degree of difficulty steeper, but it still doesn’t address the issue of surviving in the post season not being as difficult as surviving in the regular season. I think it makes it harder, but it isn’t as great of a challenge.

I would really like to see the season end a week sooner with 2 WC teams facing off for a playoff spot in a 5 game series, and then facing the #1 seeded team, while #2 and #3 face off in a seven game series. Then onto the NL/ALCS, etc. I doubt that would ever happen, but you never know.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Aug 7, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's no way that'll happen.

Teams are not going to give up a week’s worth of regular season dates.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 8, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

People only watch the games that matter anyways the last week

I don’t understand how the NBA has half the regular season games that MLB has and then twice the amount of playoff games. Why are so few teams allowed into the postseason? I think the system would be interesting if they set it up kind of like the NFL where the two division winners with the best record get a bye. The division winner with the worst record would play the #6 team in a 3 game series as well as #4&#5 in a 3 game series. The winners of those series would play the #1&2 teams in a 5 game series and then the rest being the same.

by IowaCubsWS09 on Aug 9, 2009 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind more playoff teams and a shorter regular season, but...

…would the loss in regular season games (revenues) be offset by sharing playoff revenues or the likelihood of receiving playoff revenues? I would think that MLB has looked at this already? They could just raise regular season prices to offset the expected losses?

Maybe they could just extend the playoffs until around Thanksgiving or for that week or two after when College Football has that lull?

by DudeVf11 on Aug 12, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but thats how EVERY OTHER MAJOR SPORT (to use dtpollitt's language)

also does it – i.e., the division winners in NBA are 1 and 2 regardless of record, the wild card teams in fball play in the wild card games regardless of record.

not sure about hockey

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by joeschmitt on Aug 7, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most other sports have more than 8 teams in their playoffs

Which means that the first round opponent is not usually affected by the division winner shuffling, and the top teams still play the bottom few.

by madcow256 on Aug 8, 2009 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Unless of course the wildcard team comes from the same division as the team with the best record. In which case the team with the best record then plays the division winner with the worst record. Or, a 1-seed versus a 3-seed.

Maybe I should use your apparent belief as my tag line.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Aug 7, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my apparent belief?

sure, go ahead, although its nowhere near as funny as yours.

my “apparent belief” is the rule, and you pointed out the exception. congrats.

Cubs will win 79 to 83 games. Season has been over for weeks. St. Louis will eventually run away with this division. And you can print it. BLou (7/21/09)

by joeschmitt on Aug 7, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YOU'RE F-ING OUT, I'M F-ING IN!

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hahahahaha

Season 2, please come soon.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Aug 7, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because the wildcard has very little to do with team performance...

…and much more to do with the team above you? I know that may be the wrong way to put it, but look at the AL East…put any of those teams in any other division, and you’d have all division winners.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In every other sport, the "Wild Cards" are ranked behind the division leaders.

The 3rd seed in the NBA or NHL could have less wins than the 5,6,7, and 8th seeds.

Randy Wells. A product of the Roy Halladay School of Pitching, located in Toronto, Canada. Possible relocation.

by Cub Style on Aug 7, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that's not the problem.

One extra home game doesn’t make a short series any more of a crapshoot. If you look at the numbers, the team with the best record in each league is just about 8% more likely to win the league pennant than the playoff team with the worst record. Short series are just too random and we let in too many mediocre teams to not expect poor teams to catch fire and have frequent success. Here’s a telling stat: of the 18 teams since the wildcard era began to record 100+ wins, only 4 of them have won the pennant. If that doesn’t tell you something is wrong with the system, nothing will.

Personally I’m in favor of a four-league system with the team with the best record in each league winning the pennant, and then a four-team playoff to decide the World Series winner. That way record is rewarded – with a pennant – and there is still the postseason tournament that MLB loves.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'd only get four playoff teams that way.

Not enough for MLB.

Plus, you’d have to ADD two teams to have four eight-team leagues, the only way to make the leagues fair.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 8, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

It’s a kinda rough-around-the-edges idea. As for adding two teams, I’m pretty sure it will happen sooner or later. The question is when. But there are still markets out there clamoring for baseball.

I don’t see what’s wrong with having fewer playoff teams. Sure you lose a little revenue, but you could lengthen the season to make up for it. Say a 168 game schedule – 24 games against 7 teams in the league. (You lose interleague play that way as well, but I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing.) In fact, with the whole of MLB in action for those extra games as opposed to just the 8 playoff teams, you probably make more money, and it’s a fairer system – rewarding regular season success, because 160+ games mean a whole lot more than a few short series, but still maintaining some form of a playoff system.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

With so many teams in financial trouble now...

… and a recession going on, I can’t see any clamor for MORE teams.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 8, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, yeah.

Not in the foreseeable future. But the recession’s gotta end sometime, and then who knows. I’ve had a hard time though trying to figure out a fair alignment with a number of teams other than 32, so far at least.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't.

I’d say it will be at least ten years before another expansion, maybe more.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 8, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And where

would you expand? I can’t think of any market right now that is clamoring for a baseball team.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 8, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 8, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear

Montreal has an empty stadium.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 8, 2009 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are some great baseball fans in Montreal

but as long as Olympic Stadium is the only option, MLB never will return there. Heck, they might not, anyway.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 9, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Montreal isn't a baseball town.

When they got a team in 1969, Montreal was the largest city in Canada and the headquarters of many corporations, etc.

Most of those companies moved to Toronto. Montreal’s now the third largest city in Canada. Vancouver deserves a team before Montreal.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 9, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oboy

make sure it’s in the AL. Going to California is bad enough. :D

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 9, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a former Expos fan, I want to qualify the title of your post.

Montreal never was and never would be a “baseball town” in the sense that Boston, New York, Chicago, or St. Louis are, but for a while it held its own with the rest of the MLB pack. I would go to Expos games almost every year when I would go to see my extended family in Quebec in the summer. I remember going to games in 1994 (when the Expos had the best record in the league before the strike) and in 1995 when there were easily 30,000 in the stands. Again, it was never as packed as Wrigley, Fenway, Yankee Stadium, or Busch Stadium, but comparable to most other cities.

The attendance started dropping off after the strike and once Jeffrey Loria (the team’s owner at that time) began selling off prospects like Pedro Martinez. As attendance began dropping the other MLB owners took over the team, and of course had no interest in ponying up money to keep the likes of Vladimir Guerrero in Montreal. I think most Expos fans that were left at that point saw the writing on the wall and quite frankly began giving up on a long-term Expos presence in Montreal, and then it became an easy decision to move the team to DC.

All that to say that I don’t think Montreal is any less a “baseball town” than Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, Phoenix or even Anaheim. Give the town a good ownership team that is making a clear effort to invest in a competitive baseball team and the fans will come. Give the fans an owner that consistently sells off your best players as they hit their prime and the fans will get frustrated (witness Pittsburgh, Kansas City).

It frustrates me that I keep hearing comments about how Montreal is somehow less a baseball town than the rest, usually from fans who didn’t get to see what I saw when the Expos actually had a chance at winning. Cubs fans should consider themselves lucky that there is a dedicated fan base and baseball tradition that will fill up the stadium even in lean years. But again, if that is your criterion for which cities deserve baseball teams, then it’s my contention that you’re pretty much looking at a 4-team league.

"TOOO much good stuff!"

by cdnsportnic on Aug 9, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

While your point about 1994 and the fire sale is valid...

… the 1993 Expos, a contending team, finished 13th in the NL in attendance, and the 1994 team, which might well have won the World Series if there had been one, was 11th.

Expos fans had been deserting Montreal — mostly for Toronto — since the late 1970’s.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 9, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have a point

in that the language issue has chased from Montreal a lot of English speakers and, presumably, a higher percentage of baseball fans. But there are plenty of French-speaking baseball fans there. And I’d agree with cdnsportnic — Montreal is no worse a baseball town than plenty of cities that currently have teams.

(Are the Expos any better off in Washington than they were in Montreal? It doesn’t appear that way.)

The biggest problem for the Expos was the lack of desire on the part of the local business community and the local/federal governments to come up with an ownership/stadium plan. After being on the hook for the 1976 Olympics, I guess I can’t really blame them.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 10, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Expos/Nats WILL be better off in Washington...

… once management puts together a better team. As I noted, even in 1993 and 1994, an outstanding Expos team drew fewer than 20,000 a game in Montreal.

The Nats will pack that place if they ever win.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 10, 2009 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope so, Al,

but I’m not terribly optimistic. I just don’t think the Washington-Baltimore area can support two teams. (Too bad, because I do like the Nats’ new stadium. Heard you were there for the Cubs series, too. How did you like it?)

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 10, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did like it, but...

… it’s kind of generic. Looking out at the outfield from the lower box seats, you have no idea you’re in Washington, you see a parking garage. You might as well be in Cleveland.

The Washington/Baltimore area has what, about 5 million people? That ought to support two teams.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 10, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come to Oklahoma...any sport does good here...

That’s all people care about here…sports and going out to eat, and church. Lol seriuosly…okc would work.

I live in Tulsa, Tulsa just applied for the olympics. I know there’s abetted chance of people in hell getting icewater than Tulsa getting the olympics, but hey. If we think we could support olympics, why not make a splash for amlb team?

by Wrigster on Aug 9, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw that article in the Tulsa World,

and I almost spit my orange juice all over my keyboard.

by Tate491 on Aug 10, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe its something like...

…the last 13 seasons the team with the best record in the NL has not reached the Series.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 7, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NL WS team with most wins

1996, 1999 and 2004 WS all had the NL team with the most wins. So in 13 seasons, the team with the most wins made it to the World Series about 25% of the time. (see crapshoot)

by cliff on Aug 7, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

An even worse stat (that I also mentioned below):

There have been 18 100-win teams in MLB since 1993 (the start of the wildcard era). Only 4 have reached the series. That’s 18%. Absolutely ridiculous.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then its..

that they didn’t win the W.S. The playoffs are a crapshoot.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Aug 21, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Al, the playoffs are not a crapshoot

I hate hearing that the playoffs are a crapshoot.

Clearly nji has layed out a “formula”, if you will, to post season success.

Getting to the playoffs is very hard, no doubt. But what have we seen from the Cubs the last two postseasons? An anemic offense, Beyond Zambrano, starting pitching that has fallen apart at the seams, and a bullpen that seems to implode in pressure situations.

What the poster is saying is that the based on what we have seen the Cubs do not have the components that past WS winners have had.

As, much as I want the Cubs to win it all….I see the Cubs as a team with one true ace who doesn’t pitch past the 5th inning, a pitcher in Zambrano who could either be lights out or could implode and give up a game in the first few innings, and a bullpen that leaves me feeling no confidence with a one run lead.

For the sake of sounding like a typical Cubs fan, this team certainly appears to be one that would find a way to blow it…..Some of the pieces are there but for them to all come together is “a crapshoot”. Most teams that already have that together is not due to luck but good team construction and managing.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 7, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reason I say it's a "crapshoot" is...

… would you have bet that the 97-win Cubs would have gone three and out, in the way they did?

Or that the 100-win Angels would have won only one game?

Talent, granted, is critical. But there is luck involved, and also getting hot at the right time — sort of like the Dodgers did, until they ran into the Phillies. Or the Rockies in 2007.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Aug 7, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think sometimes a team just isn't built for short series

Last year’s Angels and Cubs are examples of that IMO. Strong deep pitching staff that doesn’t necessarily have a stud ace but doesn’t have any weaknesses either and an offense that can abuse bad pitching and really beat on lesser teams.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 7, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Built for a short series

I might be willing to accept this if it was always true. In 2001, Schilling and Johnson carried DBack to the series; obviously a team well built for a short series. The following year the DBack, still obviously well built for a short series, were swept in the first round.

The 1998 Yankees, the most dominant team on the list, lost the first 3 games of the season behind eventual World Series dominant pitchers such as Pettite, Cone and Wells. All great teams have a bad stretch where their best starters get beat and/or their dominant closer blows a save or two or the bats go quiet. If it happens in October, people start looking for excuses (no left handed hitters, need two dominant pitchers, manager is an idiot, etc.)

If you make the playoffs, your chances of winning the World Series are between 5% and 30%. If you don’t make the playoffs, it is zero. All GM/manager/players can do is make the playoffs. After that it is more luck than skill.

by cliff on Aug 7, 2009 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Built for a short series, or built to face #1/#2 starters

My perception of one of the Cubs’ problems has been that there are guys like Soriano who are notorious bad-ball hitters, who can eat the lunch of a teams #3-#5 starters and help rack up the regular season wins. But there are basically no #4 or #5 starters in the playoffs….

Now, I have no statistical evidence that this is true, just ancedotal. But I’d love to see a comparison about how the ’07 Cubs did against #1/#2 starters compared to the rest of the league.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 9, 2009 8:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly no

I expected last years team to perform much better. At least least win a game or even keep it close in at one lousy game. But even before the NLDS started I was a little on edge about facing the Dodgers. They were the one team I didn’t wanted to face out of the NL.

I agree that being hot is critical come post season time. But, more often then not if you trot out Sabathia/Burnett, Lee/Hammels, Beckett/Lester, (you get the picture), and close it with a stud, your more often going to win a series then not.

I personally, don’t have that confidence with Zambrano/Harden and Gregg/Marmol. based on what I’ve seen last postseason and this season. Obviously they can do, any team is capable of winning on a given night, but I don’t have the confidence they could sustain it for three straight series.

THE FONZ HAS ARRIVED!

by amaru on Aug 7, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

When your season’s longest winning streak, 5, is followed my an 8 game losing streak, you are not a Championship caliber team.

STAY THIRSTY, my friends!!

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

except your analysis is flawed

During the regular season last year, our offense was not anemic. Our starting rotation was very good. Our bullpen was stable.

It’s only in the post season that the team imploded.

The post-season is a crap shoot. Any team can beat any other team.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 7, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked your use of the term "crapshoot" to describe...

…the outlook for this Cubs team coming together this season.

I still have hope and the standings dictate that I should, but the more I watch the Cubs the more I am leaning towards a playoff appearance being the result of luck for this season. I keep saying “If th big money guys start producing consistently then we’ll be in the playoffs” and I still think that’s the key to the remainder of the season, but as time more passes I am starting to wonder whether such an outcome is just luck now. In other words, the longer that I watch the 2009 Cubs the less inspiring they are for me.

But hey, we can only win today’s game and we can still win this series from the Phillies.

by DudeVf11 on Aug 12, 2009 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree to an extent.

All it takes to win the WS is to get into the playoffs and play better baseball than your opponents. In the right post-season, you could have the worst manager, a poor defense, inconsistent pitching, and still win.

I actually think it might help break through the gravity of the Cubs “curse” if the team had no expectations to win.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Aug 7, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this assessment.

I’ve had it in the back of my mind all year that all the bad luck the Cubs have experienced this year is a big deke by the baseball gods, to get us looking the other way so that we can be truly shocked with the rest of the world when the team we all felt least likely to win it all actually does.

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 7, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

very detailed analysis but still pointless and stupid post

only lawyers should care for grammar are you one?

by angryandy on Aug 8, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You really have very little going on in real life, don't you?

Debate/disagreement is one thing, but you’re just rude.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 8, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your sig is beyond hilarious.

I’m beginning to think there’s more to you than meets the eye.

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 8, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why so

angry, Andy?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 8, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you for your pollution.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 9, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Recommended because this is how FanShots should look.

And my answer: “No. Well, we have the TOOLS to win the World Series, but not the consistency or headstrong players to do it. Not this year.”

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Aug 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Just get to the postseason first

Aim to win the division and not the wild card. While you can get to the World Series as a wild card team and even win it, every team’s goal is still to win the division, win the pennant and then win the World Series. Even wild card winners had that goal, but settled for the wild card because it still gets you in the playoffs. The Cubs simply need to win the games that they need to win. Wednesday night was an example of doing just the opposite when presented with an opportunity to turn their lead in the division into a one game lead instead of remaining tied with the Cardinals. There will be more opportunities, but teams need to take advantage of situations like this. The Cubs haven’t done a great job of it overall this season with injuries and a lack of clutch hitting.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 7, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Very nice work!

I’m with you with a focus on what it takes to win the WS, though I really believe that some poeple also put a lot of value in winning lots of regular season games too – enjoying the ride as much as the destination. You characterize the issue well in that the keys to post-season success are a couple of lock-down starters, and lights-out 8th and 9th inning relief staff, and the ability to score runs when it counts. We have 5 (or 6!) very good starting pitchers, but all of them for one reason or another will have me biting my nails in the post-season. I have appreciated Gregg as a regular season closer – he’s done his job – but I’d very, very much like to have Heath Bell on our roster.

I think the best NL teams for pitching the post-season are, in order.

1. Giants – Lincecum, Cain, and Affeldt/Wilson
2. Cardinals – Carpenter, Wainright, and Franklin/Miller
3. Dodgers – Kershaw, Wolf, and Broxton (and pretty much their entire badass pen)
4. Cubs – Zambrano, Harden/Lilly/Wells, and Marmol/Guzman/Gregg (lots of ?’s)
5. Rockies – Marquis, Jimenez, and Street/Fogg/Morales
6. Phillies – Lee, Happ, and Madson/Lidge

by DisCUBbobulated on Aug 7, 2009 12:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lidge has not had a good season so far

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Aug 7, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thus the low ranking for the Phillies, even with Lee and Happ in the rotation..

Interestingly, Lidge was the best int he business last year, and look how that turned out for the Phillies.

by DisCUBbobulated on Aug 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hamels

is still very good.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dodgers could be #1 or #5 by the end of the season

in my opinion. Did you purposely leave off Billingsley as he will be the Dodgers #1?

by socalbob on Aug 7, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.. you're right on Billingsley being the guy they go to..

But he’s kind of stunk up the place lately, so who knows what they’ll get out of him? But, if the growing question marks for their SP’s is why you think they could either go to #1 or #5, I think that’s pretty solid rationale.

by DisCUBbobulated on Aug 7, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep, you pretty much are reading my thoughts

also, Broxton has been up early and down lately. Sherrill was a great addition and now with Kuo back they seem to have the pieces. But 5 weeks could change all that as there are certainly question marks. Kershaw has been dominant lately, but will that continue and how will he fare in post-season baseball.

by socalbob on Aug 7, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the Cubs offense can score 4 runs/game in the playoffs

Then sure, I like their chances.

But let’s get there first and then start rolling the dice.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Aug 7, 2009 1:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The 1906 White Sox didn't have what took to win a world series

But they won anyway. Against the Cubs as a matter of fact.

by Cubbiegoon on Aug 7, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's see if they have what it takes

To at least split a series with the Rockies. Not trying to be pessimistic because I’m usually not but considering the Cardinals play the Pirates and Reds, Cubs really need to try and win this series.

by ak123 on Aug 7, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Neat stuff

This is a good recap and analysis. Thank you!

Step 1 Win the NL Central or the NL wildcard.
Step 2 Win the first 2 playoff rounds to get to the WS
Step 3 Win the WS

Once the team gets past Step 2, then I’m willing to say anything can happen.

Back to Step 1 – I looked at the Cubs and Cardinals schedule for the rest of the season and didn’t think one was necessarily more difficult than the other. The Cubs have about a 50% chance of winning the division and I think that is their best chance to make the play-offs. Unlikely the Astros or Brewers will resurrect, but they are certainly not a lock-out at this point especially if any resurrection includes winning the games they play against the Cubs and Cardinals.

Getting through Step 2 would be difficult. Difficult enough to not want to bet on it even if they go on to win the division handily. Expect having to score some runs off of better than average pitching. In postseason the 5th starter should be on the roster to come out of the bullpen. They may want to go with “closer by # runs ahead” in the playoffs where Gregg, Marmol and the starter assigned bullpen duty are the choices. What they don’t want is for Gregg to be the closer with a 1 run lead because his fastball does not have enough movement.

At least 3 starting pitchers should be on their game from now till anything can happen. That is because the offense and the bullpen aren’t likely to come through often enough, especially the bullpen. Return of a healthy Ted Lilly pitching like he did for most of the season should make the order for starting pitching easier to fill. The lineup is better with Ramirez in it, but the offense should be more consistent than it has been since he returned to the lineup.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 7, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chance of winning the division

Baseball Prospectus has it at just over 38%, based in part on the schedule. Brewers have less than 6% chance.


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/ps_odds.php

by cliff on Aug 7, 2009 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Impact of this weekend

I don’t understand the methods for any of the versions, but the ELO version gave the Cubs a 49% chance of winning the division and a better chance of making the playoffs than the Cardinals and Rockies. The original version, which I assume is the one they consider having the best probabilities, gives the Cardinals and the Rockies a better chance of getting to the playoffs. I wonder how much this can change with this Rockies series. If the Cubs win 3 or 4 of the 4 games, for example.

by AboutTheCubs on Aug 7, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sure they do

whether or not they WILL, well, remains to be seen.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 7, 2009 2:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This provides some interesting perspective.

Honestly, I just want to win the division again. I know that the division doesn’t really mean anything, but winning it three years running is at least something - something the organization can perhaps build on going forward. And it’s right there for the taking.

I’ll admit that I’m not exactly brimming with confidence about this team competing in the postseason – especially with the way the Phillies have improved and how dominant the Dodgers have been all year. And let’s not even get into AL teams.

But there’s just no reason to lay down and die right now. And something tells me that, when the Cubs finally do win the World Series, it will be in a most unprecadented fashion that no one really saw coming.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 7, 2009 2:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In the immortal words of Lou Brown...

“I think we’re a contender right now.”

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Aug 7, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sure they have have what it takes, except....

the possibility of one element, and that’s only a maybe.
The Cubs have enough pitching to win, enough hitting to win and enough defense to win.
But I doubt that any team has won it all without some LUCK. Maybe the Cubs will have it and maybe they wont.
 Another thing….do the Cubs have what it takes to win a World Series?
It might depend on who they play…and how much luck they have.

without looking it up, one of the teams not mentioned above was the lowly Dodgers that swept the mighty Oakland A’s. The Dodgers were one of the worst hitting teams ever to get to the World Series. We all know how that turned out…Kirk Gibson!! Was it luck? Who knows, but the Dodgers swept them. You just never know!

"I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member" : Groucho Marx

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 7, 2009 6:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that what happened is exactly what happened to us last year

Eck gives up the GWHR to Gibson and they never recovered. Demp gives up the Loney 4 bagger, and we shut down, albeit we shut down against a better Dodgers team.

I feel that the expectations of each team were totally shattered when those HR’s came and it rattled the entire team into submission.

I like Lou but his post season record is pretty crappy. He’s the equivalent of Doug Collins/Phil Jackson, IMO.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 8, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

After watching them fall flat tonight

after an off day…and a mental off day against a 32-year old rookie the day before, I’d say unfortunately…no.

I have nothing funny or creative to write.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Aug 7, 2009 11:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But then

you would say that regardless.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 8, 2009 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So two games is your sample size. Got it.

I've committed to tweeting about the Cubs for the rest of the season. (Does that sound as ridiculous as I think it does?) Anyway, if you're on Twitter, you can follow me here.

by dat cubfan daver on Aug 8, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do they look after last night's game

since your opinion probably changes day to day?

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 9, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope so.

I wouldn’t bet any more money today than I would have in June, though.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 8, 2009 12:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

World Series will be the Philadelphia Phillies taking on the New York Yankees, with the Yankees hoisting yet another trophy.

Cubs will not make the playoffs.

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 8, 2009 1:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I assume this prediction means

you think the NL Wild Card is coming out of the West then?

Will it be SF or Colorado?

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 8, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

world series

sorry but no. i cant even see this team making the playoffs.

by NOMAR on Aug 8, 2009 8:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chicago Cubs - Arizona Cardinals

The two teams with the longest championship draughts in sports are the Chicago Cubs and the Arizona Cardinals.

Both made the playoffs in 2008 and a closer look at both teams is especially meaningful.

The Cubs won 97 games, went into the playoffs as favorites, and got killed.
The Cards went 9-7, went in with some calling them the worst playoff team in history, and came within three minutes of making history.

Once the playoffs start . . . .the regular season is MEANINGLESS.

The Cubs haven’t figured that out (see 2007/2008). The 2008 Cubs went into their series ‘overconfident’ and were quickly dispatched.

The Arizona Cardinals went in with a chip on their shoulder the size of Mount Rushmore
and gave every team all they could handle in the post season.

The regular season does NOT carry over into the postseason. The Cubs will never win it all until they begin to understand that simple concept.

by GeoMak on Aug 8, 2009 10:53 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The postseason structure is flawed.

Any team can have three bad games in a row. There has to be more value to winning 95+ games than a playoff spot, which is, essentially, no more than a lottery ticket.

by cubsforever on Aug 8, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give the team with the better record a 2-0 lead to start the game lol

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 8, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This has to be the stupidiest thing I have ever read

"Cubs will win 79 to 83 games." BLou (7/21/09)

by BLou on Aug 8, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll tell you what the stupidist thing is

That’s the Cubs (and I’m a lifelong Cubs fan) being overconfident playing the Dodgers last season (and both Soriano and DeRosa made comments to that effect after the series).

The Cubs were 12 games better than L.A. last season (basically the same thing is being one game better than another in football).

Of course, there were TWO Dodger teams last season: Before Manny and After Manny.
The Cubs (unfortunately) were playing the After Manny Dodgers in the playoffs.

Any cursory look at the stats easily showed that the After Manny Dodgers were basically the equal of the Cubs for the same time frame, in most of the meaninful stats.

Oh, and the Dodgers had the hottest hitter in baseball at the time (Manny Ramirez). The Cubs had ABSOLUTELY no business being overconfident when they played the After Manny Dodgers . . . but they were.

That’s stupid.

by GeoMak on Aug 8, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

Way to explain why. And use those neat little things called facts.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly, the postseason structure

“is what it is.”

It’s a ticket to the dance, where everybody starts 0-0.

Thinking that you are better than another team just because you had a better regular season is not very intelligent.

All games matter (even games in April) but clearly, how a team is playing in August/September (see Cubs/Mets 1969) matter MORE.

The regular season totals DO NOT MATTER once the playoffs start. So why give them ANY weight?

by GeoMak on Aug 8, 2009 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying they SHOULD matter.

Because over a long 162 games, the best team will win the most games (given a balanced schedule that is, which currently we have nothing of the sort). Giving an 84 win team a chance to beat a 100 win team is absurd.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should add that as American sports fans we tend to think there is no other way to have a sports league than the US structure of season + playoffs.

In the wider world it works very, very differently. Top-level soccer leagues in nearly every country have no playoffs (I doubt you like soccer, but obviously something must be working because it is the most popular sport in the world). Basically Australia is the only country that has a structured sports system that resembles ours in any way.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not disagreeing

as to what should matter.

I’m just saying what does matter.

All that matters is what a team does after they get in.
That’s why I mentioned last years AZ. Cardinals.

They were ridiculed going in, but they played better than Atlanta, Carolina, Philadelphia and almost better than the Steelers.

Personally I have no problem with it.

I look at the regular season ‘record’ as just a way to get in. If a team like the Cubs wins 97 games, to me, that just means that they are almost assured of ‘getting in.’

And that’s all. Once the playoffs begin, it’s anybody’s ballgame.

That’s the beauty of sports. The upset. The underdog.
Getting in is juts half the battle. Winning in the playoffs is the other half.

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not exactly true. The UEFA playoff system is basicly the same as an american style

playoff. The top teams from the Eurpoean leagues qualify and brackets are set up to determine the eventual winner. It is extremely popular and the championship team is generally regarded as the best soccer club in the world. The individual soccer leagues mirror our divisions as the top teams move on the the Champion League playoffs.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 9, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Champions League is a whole different can of tomatoes.

I wouldn’t exactly compare European leagues to our divisions. Winning a European league is very prestigious, i.e. why Liverpool are focusing the majority of their efforts on winning England to break their almost 20-year draught. And Champions League is played concurrently with the domestic league season, not after the domestic. So while there is some comparison, it really is completely different.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point is that it is a playoff system that is extremely popular. Yes there are some

minor differences in when it is played and yes teams are focused on winning there own league first, but the Champions League final is one of the most watched sporting events around the world so there must be something to this playoff thing.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Aug 9, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course.

I’m not against playoffs, I’m just for regular season success being rewarded. European teams who finish with the top record win their league, which is a pretty good reward. Then multiple teams are presented with the opportunity for European glory. It’s a win-win kinda deal.

And playoffs work a lot better with a sport like association football where a small number of games means a lot more than in baseball.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but not every playoff team gets to play the Pirates 18 times

The unbalanced schedule means that you can’t compare total wins/losses nearly as easily as you claim that one can.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 9, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

The unbalanced schedule is also a problem. But the solution is to rebalance the schedule, not to assume a few short playoff series can make up the difference.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget that AZ beat Carolina

thanks to Delhomme having the worst game of his career. To me, football playoffs are a lot like hockey, a hot QB or goalie can carry a team. In baseball, you need 2 of 3: pitching, closer, offense.

Warner was a stud, and Larry Fitzgerald was his go to guy. The Cards give up SO many points, they have to score 35 at least to win. Without Warner, they don’t make the playoffs, period.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 8, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure they did

That’s not my point.

The Cardinals opened the playoffs by being the underdog to the surprising Atlanta Falcons . . . at HOME! (They were the underdog in all four games).

That set the tone for the whole playoff series.
All of those players, in the days leading up to those games, were disgusted that they were being so disrespected (home underdog, being called the worst team in playoff history) and they most definitely used that emotion on the field.

Period.

by GeoMak on Aug 8, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They were the underdog for a reason

Do you live in AZ? Did you see any of the games during the last 5 years? The Cardinals gave up over 400 points last year. Look at the other division winning teams points against. They won a division that was ripe for them to win last year. Remember the Thanksgiving night game? The team got it together at the right time and rode it to the SB.

I understand your point about anything can happen in the playoffs, and I agree. If every team beat the team they were supposed to, then the playoffs aren’t worth anything. I was simply commenting on how bad the Cards were and caught a break with Delhomme’s poor play.

Now, with all that being said, this season we will see the real AZ Cardinals, a team that has arguably reached the next level and have to prove that last year wasn’t a fluke.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 9, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I live in Arizona.

I am not tying to say that the Cardinals were a powerhouse team. Thier defense wasn’t bad last season but they were very inconsistent.

But, when they clinched the division, they literally shut it down for a few weeks (before their final game against Seattle). Which, in part, explains their terrible perfromances against the likes of New England and Minnesota.

Because of their horrid history, they almost threw the team a parade after they clinced the division.

And it’s one thing to be an underdog, it’a a whole ‘nother thing to be completely disrespected.
That’s a big part of what I am saying here.

A). They were being called (starting with Chris Collinsworth) possibly the worst team in playoff history.

B). There was some poll before the start of the playoffs (it might have started in Atlanta) that gave the Falcons the edge at every position over the Cardinals except at WR.
One of the Cards (I think it was Dockett) disgustingly said “You’re telling me that Matt Ryan is a better QB than Kurt Warner?”

Anybody that doesn’t understand how the emotion of the Cardinals being completely disrespected played into their postseason performance just doesn’t understand what happened.

Question? How could a Cardinal team that was just slightly above average in the regular season in the weak NFC WEst play extremely well in the postseason (obviously against some of the better teams in football), winning three games as underdogs and almost winning the fourth?

Answer. In part, their attitude had a lot to do with it. They took the field pissed off and they took it out on their opponents.

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A couple of things

I know disagreeing with you is not allowed but I am throwing chance to the wind again…

1. Where you live is irrelevant. That you live In AZ does not make you expert in the Cards or football.

2. Why did the Cards do so well in last year’s post season? Emotion played a role no doubt, they were roundly disrespected going into the playoffs, but they were not the first team to be disrespected, and I suspect most of the others played down to the experts’ expectations. Another explanation, maybe, just maybe, it was just a case of an inconsistent team suddenly finding some consistency, just at the right time. A team that had been struggling sometimes get its act together and gets hot, like the Cards did last season and the Giants the year before.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 9, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can disagree

Where I live is relevent here.
Why?
Cause you hear a lot more on the radio and see it in print when you live here locally.

A guy named Mike Jurecki (who is teamed with former Chicagoan Dan Bickley) is basically the ‘Cardinal Insider’ in town.

Guys will say things to Jurecki on the radio here that, if you don’t live here and listen to his show, you wouldn’t know. Nothing personal, but you wouldn’t know if you couldn’t listen

So, yes, that’s why it matters. I heard (and read) a LOT more here in Phoenix than most people were exposed to.

Doesn’t make me an ‘expert.’ It just means I’m more informed about the team that people living elsewhere.

2. All I am saying is that, yes, they were not the first team to be disrespected. They may have been one of the first to be called ‘possibly the worst playoff team in NFL history’ on National TV.

I am NOT saying that that was all. Of course you have to translate that to the field.

I am, however, a firm believe in ‘overconfidence.’ In 1987, the 49ers suffered one of their worst playoff defeats ever when they lost at home to the Vikings.

Bill Walsh publicly has stated that one reason they lost is that Walsh worked the team too hard in practice in the two weeks leading up to the game. The other was that the team was overconfident.

Conversley, in 1988, the 49ers traveled to frozen Soldier Field to play the Bears in the playoffs. The 49ers felt very disrespected going in and the Bears were no doubt overconfident. Final score? 28-3 SF.

I’m a firm believer in this. Others have every right to disagree (however, when you hear a great HC like Bill Walsh say it, it must mean something, right)?

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a little nitpick.

The Cardinals won in the playoffs because their defense picked up form just in time. Remember all the media comparisons to the ’06 Colts?

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And again

almost to a man, they were completely disgusted with the perception of them.

After their opening game victory against Atlanta, Darnell Dockett was walking off the field and someone was attempting to ask him some questions. Without breaking stride, he kept waslking and saying “Worst team in playoff history. Worst team in playoff history. Worst team in playoff history.”

In a very sarcastic tone of voice.

Those guys were livid at the way they were being disrespected and they took it out on the field.

Which was the point to my original post.

And I’m not trying to fight with you, but the ’06 Colts were clearly a team of “with Bob Sanders” and “without Bob Sanders.”

That defense revolves around Bob Sanders, who missed something like 12 games that season, only to return in time for the playoffs.

The Cardinals basically played the same guys last season. It wasn’t a case (for them) of their superstar safety returning just in the nick of time.

Any media comparison to the ’06 Colts was absurd. The media itself was the problem in this case, when they label them the worst playoff team in history and published polls saying that Matt Ryan was a better QB than Kurt Warner (the Cardinal defense put an end to that comparison in that game).

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I concede.

I wasn’t able to follow the Cardinals too closely last year. You know more about them than me.

by cubsforever on Aug 9, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not trying to start fights here.

As a lifelong Cubs fan living in Arizona, I went to three srping traing games, the three D-Back Cub games and I even flew back to Chicago for four games in August (my first time back at Wrigley in a long, long time).

I saw almost every Cub game in 2008. I’m not a Cardinal fan, but of course, living here, I’m pretty tuned in to the team.

It just struck me (which is why I posted my original comment) that these two championship starved teams entered the playoffs in almost completely different ways:

The Cubs rolling in with the best regular seasonrecord and ‘somewhat’ overconfident.’
The Cards being called a terrible representative in the playoffs (and to tell the truth, they deserved some of that).

End result? Cubs get crushed and the Cardinals almost pull off a miracle.
To me, the ‘weight of expectations’ matter.

The Cubs were (hoped to, expected) to win it all (and failed miserably).
The Cards were expected to maybe, MAYBE, win one game.

I’d rather have my team pissed off going in (like Mike Ditka said in ’85—"put a chip on your shoulder and keep it there all season) than thinking that they are better than the other team cause they had a better regular season record (which of course, means nothing once the playoffs start).

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your premise cannot be disproven

but nor can it be proven. You believe the Cubs were overconfident going into the series with the Dodgers last year and that led to their downfall. While you are entitled to your opinion, you really have absolutely nothing to back that up. My theory is that they went into the series without a lot of confidence, despite the fact that they statistically dominated the NL last season. To me they had the look of a team with very little confidence and when they the Dodgers jumped out in game 1 what little confidence they had was lost. To me they looked more tight than overconfident, but that is just my take on what I saw.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 10, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure I do lookingdeadred

When you say I have ‘absolutely nothing to back it up’ I have the words of both Soriano and DeRosa (as I related in my post . . . did your read it all)?

Both of them, after the sweep (On Cubs.com) basically made the same statement : (“We didn’t think the Dodgers were that good.”).

If that’s not overconfidence, then what is it?

That’s ABSOLUTELY overconfidence.

by GeoMak on Aug 10, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there are more than two guys on the team

and these comments came after the sweep not before, so I take them with a grain of salt. It is easier to say I underestimated the other team than to say I choked under the pressure again, or I am not as good as I think.

As I said, your premise can be neither proven nor disproven.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 11, 2009 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You argument is ABSURD!

‘Proof’ belongs in the realm of science, For example. water boils at 212 degrees, freezes at 32 degrees.

Those kinds of things can be ‘proven.’

Most of the stuff on these blogs can’t be (or in sports, beyond the final scores)..

However, when two starters, two of the best players on the team, say virtually the same thing, I give it a little weight.

Of course they said it after-the-fact. They were saying it as ‘a reason’ ‘one of a number of reasons’ why they lost. Why else say it?

You are free to disagree, but don’t talk about proof.

These two made public comments that, to any reasonable person, sounds like overconfidence, and you dismiss them out of hand.

And that makes sense, how? (Actually, it doesn’t make sense at all).

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My arguments are only absurd in your eyes

because I had the temerity to disagree with you. I have been on this board and WCG for a relatively short time, but one lesson I have learned is that you believe you are never wrong about anything, and anyone who dares challenge what you declare is not making sense.

My take on why the Cubs lost in the playoffs (false confidence not overconfidence) last season has as much validity as yours. You cannot prove you are right, so if someone disagrees with you, they are being just as reasonable as you fantasize you are being.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 12, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree all you want lookingdeadred

Say “I DON’T think they were overconfident.”

That’s fine.

But don’t say “You have no proof.”

That, my friend, is absurd. When two of the BEST players on the team (Soriano & DeRosa——-BTW, did you READ those comments on Cub.com ?——cause I sure did) make statements that would lead anyone to surmise that (at least those two players) were overconfident, that’s all the PROOF I need!

BTW: What ‘s the ’difference’ between ‘false’ confidence and ‘over’ confidence?

Talk about splitting hairs.

But really . . . what’s the difference betweeen the two?

Explain to me the difference between false confidence and overconfidence?

by GeoMak on Aug 12, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my last comment on this thread

I see what Soriano’s and DeRosa’s comments more as an attempt to spin the latest Cub playoff collapse. It is easier to say we really are better, we just underestimated the Dodgers, than to say we choked again, just like the year before. The comments are not proof, they are opinion.

As for my “hair splitting”, I am not surprised you cannot see the difference between overconfident and false confident, as you confuse opinion with proof.

BTW, false confidence seems to describe you to a T. You are all bluff and bluster, but when confronted, you get all indignant, just like the a schoolyard bully.

As much as I am enjoying our “debate” (not), I find it and you boring, so I am moving on.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 13, 2009 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You KILL me dude.

Now, you are reading their minds?

Too funny.

When Bill Walsh was quoted as saying his team was overconfident regarding the ’87 playoff loss, I take it as just that.

Proof? It came out of his mouth.

The Cubs choking? Anybody with even ONE eyeball could see that.

Soriano & DeRosa could’ve said a MILLION things. They could’ve said “No Comment.”

But they DID say that they were surprised that the Dodgers were that good, but you hear something else.

INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Really.

Of course if you used an ounce of intelligence here, you would CLEARLY see that their comments ‘fit right in’ to the total picture: (Best NL record, Pep rallies, the whole world saying that “this is the year”).

Is it so hard for you to believe (especially after two players admitted it) that maybe they WERE overconfident going in?

You KILL me dude. Really!

Amazing!!!!!!!

BTW: Please explain (cause you CAN’TTTTTT) the difference between ‘overconfidence’ and ‘false confidence.’

I challenged you to do that, and you tucked tail and ran like Jesse Owens. Pathetic.

But please, enlighten me. The difference between ‘overconfidence’ and ‘false confidence’?

Too funny!

by GeoMak on Aug 13, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am also a lifelong Cubs fan living in AZ

for the last 9 years. I don’t listen to the local sports radio here because in general, sports radio gets redundent and I am at work from 6am to 6pm. I am sure most of the Cardinals felt disrespected. But think about it, they give up almost 4 touchdowns a game. You say inconsistent, I say porous for a playoff team. I am also sure the chip on their shoulder is something that Whisenhunt extolled, to bind the team together, and that’s what a coach is supposed to do. Look at what Lou Holtz used to say in his pregame press conferences when he was coaching ND. The Domers would be playing a crappy team and he would still say that they were expecting a battle and that they had to play error free and yadda yadda yadda. I have a feeling that Ken W. prepares his team for the post season gauntlet better than Lou does.

On the other hand, the Cubs rolled through the regular season with very few bumps in the road, but they did preview their collective futility offensively a few times during the season. This season, it lasted for a month or more instead of a week here and there. I was out of the country when the playoffs started, but from what i have seen and read, they were overconfident and not prepared for battle at all. That I lay at Lou’s feet. As I have said before, Lou is a poor playoff manager. Everyone with a passing interest in baseball saw how well the Dodgers were playing and peaking at the right time. I still believe in my heart that the 100+ year drought does play a part in the psyche of the players. Of course they say it doesn’t, are they really going to admit it in public?

Back to the Cardinals, sure, they probably shut down once they had a playoff spot secured, but good teams don’t totally pack it in, they still compete. The Cards got humiliated in s couple of those last games. I guess the chip on their shoulder fell off or even wasn’t there yet during that stretch. Also remember that The Edge was rested all season for the playoffs and it did reap rewards. Again, in sports, luck is involved. The Cards faced a crappy Delhomme that day. You woul have to agree it wasn’t all the defense’s skill, Jake threw a few balls that he should have held on to. The Cards also got a favorable call or two in the Philly game. Irregardless, they came ready to play.

Basically, what I am saying is that yes, how a team approaches the post season has some effect on results. But don’t say that the Cardinals football team was a juggernaut that everyone disrespected. They were in a weak division, had a porous defense but just enough offense because of Warner, Edge and Fitz. and a wee bit ‘o luck along the way. They were underdogs because they had not proven anything to that point. Now they are in the upper echelon of the league (some say). We’ll see how they play this year. IMO, this is the year they earn the respect, not because they almost won the SB. If they have a good season and show improvement, then they will earn some. If they revert back to a .500 team or worse, then all last year meant was that they had a good stretch of 4 games.

Last year, the Cubs weren’t prepared, pure and simple. Was it overconfidence, or one of a hundred reasons, tangible or not? They were squeezing sawdust from their bats like they did the year before. Sure, the 2006 baseball Cardinals limped into the playoffs and won the whole thing. But with LaRussa as manager, I’ll bet he prepared that team and their team played loose because of it.

This year could be a good thing for the Cubs. Even though the sports talking heads still say the Cubs are the team to beat, I tend to think that most fans don’t feel that way. If the injuries start to end and the lineup tinkering produces consistent production, then we have a chance to win the division, but somehow the drive to win games has got to be bigger thant the thought of losing them and the “here we go again” mantra we have tired of these 100+ years.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 10, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Putting words in my mouth, BigJohnAZ

When you write this:

But don’t say that the Cardinals football team was a juggernaut that everyone disrespected.

I clearly said “I’m not trying to say that the Cardinals were a powerhouse team” in my 9:51 post yesterday.

You are obviouly putting words in my mouth that i never said.

Clearly they were only 9-7 in a weak division. Thei defense was inconsistent, at best (terrible at worst); their passing offense carried the team.

They CLEARLY shut it down for a few weeks after clinching. Whisenhunt (finally) put his foot down after their embarasssing loss in NE in time for the finale against Seattle.

They CLEARLY didn’t need Whisenhunt to help them with the ‘chip on their shoulder.’

The all got that, starting with Cris Collingsworth (on down) describing them as possibly the WORST playoff team in NFL history. That, my friend, goes far beyond your garden variety disrespect.

When Darnell Dockett says (like he did) that he had tears in his eyes in the parking lot before their first playoff game, you begin to understand how emotional these players were. They played on one of the worst teams in NFL history through most of their careers and were being laughed at before the playoffs even started.

The Cubs? Sure they were prepared. They also:

A) Were OVERCONFIDENT (why do so many people have trouble believing that this happens) based in large part on their ‘best record’ 97 win season. As I stated before, both Soriano & DeRosa, after the sweep, made comments to the effect that “We didn’t think the Dodgers were that good.” That’s the very definition of overconfidence.

B) The ‘choke’ factor. It hovered in the air like the fog at Soldier Field during the Fog Bowl. CONSTANTLY hearing about the ‘100 years’ . . . the curse . . . the goat . . . and then the pep rallys . . . the ‘This is the Year’ . . . the priest and the holy water.

That team, when they took the field couls NOT have been any tighter (and they played like it).

Demspter couldn’t find the plate . . . the infielders couldn’t find the ball . . . and so on.

Overconfidence & suffocating pressure basically explains their stunning collapse in last years playoffs (it’s one thing to lose . . .it’s another to act like you forgot how to play the game.

by GeoMak on Aug 10, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad on the juggernaut comment

I was getting a vibe from you that you think they are better than they really are. My apologies.

I still disagree that the Cubs were prepared last year. I think they thought they were going to roll all the way to the WS, and win it. The game one Loney HR told them the Dodgers wanted it just as bad and the Cubs responded with a butt clenching to end them all. What pisses me off is that they battled back from deficits all year and this time, nary a whimper. If the Cubs would have lost all 3 in a 8-7 fashion, then fine, we got our butts beat by a better team. I still feel they were the best team in the NL last year, unfortunately not that week. As I said, I wasn’t in the USA that week and didn’t know about the priest and the Holy Water debacle. That alone put bad mojo on the team. No disrespect to God and his minions lol

Yes, the Cardinals had something to prove, and they finally did, winnig big games. But don’t discount the Wiz’s influence, he’s from a championship winning background and this was still mostly Dennis Green’s team. I applauded the Cardinals when they hired Whisenhunt and knew he would help this team get to the postseason. I am not going to jump on the football Cardinals’ bandwagon just yet. I watch their games when I can and I hope they have truly turned the corner. After the newness of the new stadium, you know it’s a matter of time when the fans start staying home if the product on the field is garbage. Ask the Coyotes. That’s a post for another day and another blog!

As they say, that’s why they play the games.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 10, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big John

You write this:

I think they thought they were going to roll all the way to the WS, and win it.

That’s EXACTLY my point. We are saying the EXACT same thing. You call it “Not being prepared.” I call it “Being overconfident.”

I think they went in oveconfident (expecting to win) and I FIRMLY believe that they felt the pressure almost from the get-go.

Maybe we can agree to call it “Not being prepared due to overconfidence!”

The priest? The pep rallys? All that other stuff. It’s just BS that serves no useful purpose. It just constantly reminds that team that they are attempting to do the ‘almost impossible’ in winning it all.

The Cubs were be FAR better off going into the playoffs as an underdog (like a WC team) and open on the road.

They’d be far better off going in ‘seemingly disrespected’ than overconfident.

They’d be far better off WITHOUT all the pep rallies and ‘hoopla’ before they even win a playof game.

IMO.

by GeoMak on Aug 10, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to beat this horse to death lol

but I personally find a fine line that seperates the overconfidence from the lacked of preparedness. You have to have some attitude going in that you’re going to kick ass and take names and STILL know that if push comes to shove that if you don’t roll as planned, that you are prepared enough to battle it out, if the series goes the limit. That’s where I feel the failings are on last year’s team. They should have had confidence, most definitely, they bashed their way through the season, but when the lead evaporated in game one, they had nothing to pull them out of their funk.

As we watched all of last year, they battled back time after time and won games they probably should have lost. But Lou and the coaches did not prepare them for a dogfight, so they choke and get swept. As an aside, there were enough veterens on the team to try and settle the nervous nellies if that was the case. But the hits never came and LA played loose and confident. If Lou and the coaches DID prepare them for a potential 5 game series, then the players as a whole, save D Lee, shat their pants.

I agree that the best thing would have been for them to open on the road. Losing game one at home in a short series is a knife through the heart.

We’ll see what transpires this postseason-if we get there.

Also, thanks for this conversation! What part of AZ do you live? I’m in Chandler, would love to hook up and talk AZ and Chicago sports with you over a frosty beverage somewhere.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 10, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BigJohn

I live in Laveen.

by GeoMak on Aug 10, 2009 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

overconfident AND falling victim to crushing pressure?

You can have one or the other but not both. You can’t feel like the other team has no business being on the field with you and at the same time find the pressure from your fans just too great to perform up to your capabilities. The Cubs played in front of these fans all season. Either they dreaded the pressure they would bring come playoff time ( and thus, would be lacking in confidence) or they thought the crowd would have no influence or a positive influence which would help them beat a team they felt was not their equal.

by the nth on Aug 11, 2009 2:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you can have both.

Overconfident coming into a series and then when it doesn’t go your way, you revert back to the pressure factor. I don’t the pressure comes form the fans, per se, but the century of ineptitude that they are reminded of on a daily basis, which gets ratcheted up come playoff time. Because they don’t have a lot of post season success to fall back on, the thought of failing again in the playoffs overcomes them.

I think any Cub team assembled wants to be the curse-breaker and that added pressure is evident. Just my 2 pennies’ worth.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

well said

I would agree that the Cubs overconfidence was more accurately false confidence, and the moment things went awry, that false confidence burst like a bubble and the underlying insecurities came rushing out. When the Dodgers jumped on Dempster in game 1, you could almost see the Cubs thinking “Oh no, not again” after the previous year’s playoff three step at the hands of the D-backs, and, yes, maybe the century of futility also.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 11, 2009 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

False confidence.

That’s a better term for it. Surprised that I hadn’t heard that before.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 11, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree, you can be both overconfident and insecure

It is kind of like a schoolyard bully. Bullies act overly confident but underneath they are often very insecure, and when confronted by someone who stands up to the their bluff and bluster, the false confidence comes crashing down. I think that describes the Cubs of 2008. Their confidence was a mile wide and an inch deep after their dominant regular season. But when they Dodgers jumped on them early, their “confidence” popped like a balloon and their insecurities took over.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 11, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which again gets to the point

I don’t like to address … if that team couldn’t get the job done … which Cubs team will?

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 11, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hopefully the next one

While they are not out of it by any means, this series in Colorado was a very bad sign. With all the contracts, it will be difficult to rebuild this team if they decide the current one is too flawed to fix.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

Look at 1984. We get Suttcliffe and we roll through the season. We SPANK the Pads in game one, win decisively in game two. All we need is one freaking win in SD. We blow game three in the 9th, got whupped in game four and in game five, with the lead in the 7th, we have the infamous Leon Durham Gatorade soaked glove error which ties the game and we know the rest.

That team, the 2003 and 2008 team IMO were the teams that should have gone all the way.

Even with the 2003 team, we had the lead in games 6 and 7 and didn’t get it done. I don’t care about the Bartman game.

2008 DeRosa puts us up 2-0 and Dempster shits the bed and the rest of the team follows suit. NBF, I have never openly said we are cursed, but you know what? It gets harder and harder not to believe it when you watch how many different ways we screw it up.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best part of the '84 series

was that the Padres, on the flight back home from Chicago, were making vacation plans!

They (thought/knew) their season was over.

They then play with NOTHING to losing (expecting to lose after being down 0-2) and won it all.

Unbelievable.

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a way, I feel that

that series set the tone for every series since. We basically have that series in the bag, all cylinders clicking, etc. And then the Padres, like you said, feeling that they’e done, take the next 3. If we win that series and still lose the WS, fine, we got there, at least the drought since 1945 is over. But we blow it and now we have our post season falings to add to the others. And every time we lose a series, it adds to it.

The ’89 and ’98 Cubs got beat, the others gave it away.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Call it what you want

(curse, bad luck, crappy postseason play)

WE’VE GOT IT! (unfortunately).

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's the secret.

Play like you have nothing left to lose.

Have you ever seen a team better prepared for this mentality than this year’s team? I’m only half kidding.

"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said." ~William F. Buckley, Jr.

by Goodie1969 on Aug 12, 2009 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Curt Shilling

Like him or not, he’s one of the greatest postseason pitchers in MLB history.

He clearly was the main reason the Red Sox finally won it all (both for what he did on-the-field and off).

Ted Williams (in his one WS series ) pretty much sucked (and I’m the biggest Ted Williams fan there is).

The Cubs, next time they make the playoffs, DESPERATELY need a starter (or position player) to ‘show them the way.’

I am just a BIG believer that, once the postseaon starts, you can throw out the regular season.

The regular season records matter no more, and now, it’s a case of what player (and what team) is going to ‘ratchet up their game’ when all the pressure is on the line.

As we ALL know, the Cubs have had some excellent/great regular seasons, but have NEVER had a great postseason (in our lifetimes).

And that’s all that matters.

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, Johnson and Schilling carried the 01 D Backs as well

and on the other hand, look at A Rod. Great player from April to October, but nonexistent in the playoffs. But, because of others he has a ring.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some guys (teams) have it in the postseason

an some don’t.

Unfortunately, we all know what catagory our beloved Cubbies fall into.

And that’s my BIGGEST complaint!

I don’t care if the Cubs go 162-0!

With their playoff history, they never have ONE reason to be overconfident (even if they went 162-0).

They will ALWAYS be the playoff underdog, until they finally win it all.

PERIOD!

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're right.

Unfortunately :(

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARod doesn't have a ring

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 11, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

For some reason I thought that they had won a WS with A Rod on the team. It’s weird now that I go to the record book and find that the Bombers haven’t won a WS since 2000.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And the Steinbrenners are none to happy about that

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs need a player or two

that has the charisma or whatever you want to call it to WILL this team to the WS.

The Rays last year, as talented as they are, played loose because they had nothing to prove. But, the Phillies were pretty much loaded and backed it up.

I felt we were better than the Phils but the Dodgers were better than us for that one week.

We have too many players that are notorious no-shows after October 1.

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

This goes back to my point, that the problem last year was not overconfidence but the opposite. At best they had false confidence but as soon as things took a bad turn, they collapsed like a house of cards. What they need is a guy (or two) who will step up when all around are falling apart and make a stand. In a short series that usually is a starting pitcher, and the Cubs had no one like that in 2007 and 2008 and they still don’t. I hoped Zambrano would become that kind of rock, but it is apparent he is not up to the task of being that kind of elite pitcher. He is a fine #2, but he is no ace. The other starters lack the talent to be that kind of ace the team needs.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 12, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that makes sense (LOL)

They won the most games in the NL last season.

They were playing a team that won 12 games less.

Virtually EVERYONE (the fans of the city of Chicago, the media ,and almost ALL analysts) were picking the Cubs to win.

Mark DeRosa and Alfonso Soriano BOTH made statements, after the blowout, that “they didn’t think that the Dodgers were that good.”

And they didn’t go in “overconfident?”

Unbelievable. Connect the dots . It’s all there for you.

by GeoMak on Aug 12, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dodgers were good enough to sweep the Cubs in the playoffs

You don’t have to be the greatest team ever to win a playoff series. I think that series against the Dodgers proved it. Not as annoying as that was Marty Brennaman giving his “I told you so” comments after the Cubs were swept. The Cubs did not perform like the best team in the NL in that series, which left many fans, including myself, wondering just what the hell it would take for the Cubs to win a pennant and it gave every other fan in baseball fits of laughter.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Aug 17, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said lookingdeadred

They ‘popped’ like a balloon.

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great analogy

"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse

by BigJohnAZ on Aug 11, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure you can - Thanks for the assist BigJohn

They went into the series thinking this was their year (on account of their 97 win season and the fans/media going hysterical).

That (to me) set up the ‘overconfidence’ factor.

Once the games started however, (and the 97 wins DIDN’T matter——and the pep rallies were but a distant memory) they played as tight as humanly possible (deathly afraid of making a mistake – so they made a million) and got killed.

All I know is this. I’ve been watching this team for 40 years now. The 2008 playoff series was the first time that I, literally, could see/feel the ‘cloud of pressure’ on that team.

It hovered over Wrigly Field like a cloud (to me).

They collapsed under the weight of the pressure almost from the get-go.

That’s just MY opinion. Others are certainly free to disagree.

by GeoMak on Aug 11, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a silly, post-hoc rationalization as to why the teams who won did so
On fire starting pitching from one or two guys, a game over closer, and a mashing offense. Usually 2 of the 3 are needed to win.

I would bet if you looked at all of the teams that made the playoffs but didn’t win the world series, this would describe most of them. How do you even get to the playoffs with poor starting pitching, poor relief pitching, and no offense?

by Wreckard on Aug 8, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Dempster?

Great Regular Season (Little league postseason)!

It astounds me how some people just can’t see it.

Tell me where disagree with me.

1. Cubs make playoffs (not an every year ocurrence, but it happens sometimes).
2. City goes crazy (I get it. I was born in ’56. I was 13 during the collapse of 1969).
3. Ron Santo starts to talk about “This is the Year.” (I love Santo. He was my favorite player as a youth).
4. Jim Belushi leads a pep rally before the playoffs. (I love Belushi also).
5. The series starts (and the Cubs look pathetic). Sure explains 2007/2008.

Here’s an idea: “Why doesn’t everybody wait until they win at least ONE playoff game before they start acting like the heaves are about to open and the Cubs are going to win it all?”

The Cubs were so tight (especially in 2008) that you couldn’t have pulled a toothpick out of their asses with a Mack truck.

And you’re not going to give any CREDENCE to being ‘overconfident’ or to ‘choking?’

OK. All I know is that when I read (on the Cubs.com) both Soriano and DeRosa basically saying that "We didn’t know that they (the Dodgers) were that good after being humiliated three straight I almost threw up.

You didn’t know they were that good? Hell, after Manny got there, they were actually a better team than you were during the rest of the regualr season.

I simply amazes me that some (many) people give little or no credence to the mental/emotional side of the game.

Amazing.

The 2008 Cubs were TWO different teams (almost like split personalities).
Excellent regular season team (and HORRENDOUS playoff team team).

It’s one thing to lose (it happens to everybody).
It’s a completely different thing to act like you just started playing the game (all four infielders make an error the same game)?

Sorry.

I’ve been watching this team since the ’60’s. I know what I saw the past two seasons. (I was at the Diamondback game when Lou pulled Zambrano early to save him for the rest of the series (which of course never happened).

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wreckard

It’s called “Acting like you are going to win it all (or like you already HAVE won it all)” BEFORE the first pitch is even thrown.

Oftentimes, one sets themselves up for complete failure by doing that.

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great.

What exactly does that have to do with my post? Other than being the exact same kind silly of post-hoc rationalization that the original post resorted to.

by Wreckard on Aug 9, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are confusing me

Are you saying that you give to bearing, to what I am saying (about the team being overconfident)?

Is that what you are saying?

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

None whatsoever

See: post-hoc rationalization

by Wreckard on Aug 9, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry

I’m an intelligent person but I’m not really understanding what you are saying in your post.

I probably should, but I just don’t.
I will concede, at this point, that it’s more of a failure on my part than on yours.

Please rephrase it and tell me exacltly what you are saying (in reference to the 2008 Cubs).

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say anything about the 2008 Cubs.

That’s why I’m so confused why you were replying to me in the first place.

My bone was with the original post – he says, basically, that good pitching, good hitting, and good relief pitching is the secret formula for winning a world series, but he fails to consider that the teams that lost probably have that formula as well.

You can’t just look at one outcome, point out some factors that contributed to that outcome, and say “see that’s how you succeed” when you don’t compare it to those who failed.

by Wreckard on Aug 9, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Got it.

I was genuinely confused.

You’re right (now I understand what was going on). The losing teamsprobably had those things too.

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The formula is basically solid.

If you get good hitting and good pitching, your team will likely be successful.

But when it comes to the post season and a short series, itt would be more accurate to say the team that wins usually gets better hitting and pitching in that series, and that is not always the team that seems to be the better team. The team that had the better pitching and hitting throughout the season, does not always play to that level in a single series. Baseball is replete with examples of a “weaker” team rising up in a short series and beating a better team. My first memory of such a case, the 1960 World Series, the Pirates beating the Yankees. Another that leaps to mind for me, the Dodgers beating the A’s in 1988, the Kirk Gibson limps out and wins game 1 series.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 10, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sports radio speak to the highest degree...

“If you get good hitting and good pitching, your team will likely be successful”. That was an exact duplication of the “true American hero’s commercial”. Hello, if you score more than the other team you might win? I will say, that is a complicated theory.

by whosdeadred on Aug 11, 2009 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't listen to sports radio, so I will have to take your word for it.

Oh, and to bad you missed my point.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--Winston Churchill

by lookingdeadred on Aug 12, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We have what it takes in the Cubs to win the WS

They just have to remember to bring it to the freaking ball park in October.

Like fielding, pitching, clogging and unclogging bases, a few timely HR’s here and there.

Stuff like that.

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Aug 9, 2009 12:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said cubnational

You just basically said what I am saying (in about a million less words)!

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that pulling of Zambrano was probably the worst bit of coaching I'd seen

in a playoff situation since Riggleman pulled Kerry Wood in the Wild Card game in 1998.

The most haunting words I’ve ever heard in my Cub fan life were what Woody said afterwards.

“My arm felt fine.”

Riggleman, enjoy your day job.

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Aug 9, 2009 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Lou

And I pretty much hated Dusty Baker.

But Lou has SUCKED in the playoffs.

If the manager doesn’t matter (and it’s all about the players) then you or I could be/should be the F’ing manager.

At some point, people have to take some responsibilty.

BTW: There’s a great SportsCentury program about Bob Gibson. During a World Series game, the manager should’ve taken Gibson out but left him in. The Cardinals won and the manager, after the game, said “I was committed to his (Gibson’s) heart.” (You don’t take your best pitcher out when he’s struggling but you’re still in the game).

Great line. At some point you have to let your best players perform.

by GeoMak on Aug 9, 2009 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we have what it takes

but the Cardinals,dodgers,Phillies, and brewers have alot more of what it takes to go more so

only lawyers should care for grammar are you one?

by angryandy on Aug 9, 2009 1:07 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Brewers?!?

Yeah. One starting pitcher. That’ll get it done.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 9, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers are toast.

I bet in Vegas the odds of the Brewers winning the NL Central are at least 10-1. They have nothing but an inferiority complex that makes Cub fans’ inferiority complex look like we are Yankee fans.

It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??

by Invalid User on Aug 9, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol!

why so angry, andy?

(hint: the Brewers are done.)

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 9, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wink wink

nobody is done yet including the Astros who like always win 35 of their last 45 games. I am not angry I am easy

only lawyers should care for grammar are you one?

by angryandy on Aug 9, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TWSS

I am easy.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 9, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

easyandy?

doesn’t have the same ring to it.

The Brewers are done. So are the Astros.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I agree.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 10, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do you post more hear

Than at South Side Sox?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 9, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are good temas in the NL

And some to have more of what it takes. I can’t ask a question?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Aug 9, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's not objective.

He only posts here to rip on others and/or the Cubs

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 9, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cubs dont have what it takes to even win the division. Let face it boys, the cubs dont have neather an ace (our best pitcher is a rookie) and a closer and uur best player Ramirez is hurt. The rest of the guys are very inconsitent with the exception of theriot and lee.

by spursfan87 on Aug 9, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, they do

It’s getting to the dance first that is the issue. Once there, with all the off days and how pitching rotations change and lineups change, the Cubs would have a good chance.

Besides its a crap-shoot nearly every year. Just last year the top 2 teams in all MLB got bounced in the 1st round. In 2006 the Cards were barely over .500 and won it all. Wild card teams have accounted for 50% of the last 6 WS winners IIRC.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Aug 9, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

sorry to intrude...

i’m a cards fan but enjoy checking out other NL central blogs. anyway, just wanted to throw in my .02 — feel free to ignore.

1) i agree with wreckard: every team that makes the playoffs probably has good pitchers, good relievers, and good hitters. this fanpost basically says: “hey, all those teams that won the WS had some good players.”

2) that being said, i don’t understand all the grousing about the playoffs being a crapshoot. what ever happened to rooting for the inspiring underdog story? what ever happened to rooting against the evil empire? the playoffs would be incredibly boring if the team with the most wins took home the title every year.

besides, luck is so important in baseball that the series would have to be prohibitively long to ensure that the “best” team wins each time. hell, even after 162 games, there are still teams whose W-L is fairly far apart from their pythagorean W-L.

no amount of tweaking the postseason structure is going to prevent that grounder from finding a hole vs. turning into a double play in the bottom of the 9th with the game on the line. that’s just the way baseball works.

by djones9 on Aug 10, 2009 8:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't really feel like doing the research right now

But I’m pretty sure there have been a number of recent WS Champs that limped into the playoffs. 2005 Sox, 2006 STL for sure, and I’ll bet there have been more.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Aug 10, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly.

it sounds like lots of people here want the team with the best regular season record to be crowned WS champion automatically. if that’s the desired result, why even bother going through the trouble of having a postseason?

by djones9 on Aug 10, 2009 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

1st The Cubs need to win the Central division and get into the post season. Then the Cubs have a chance to win the World Series like any other team has that makes it to the playoffs. If the Cubs players are all off the DL watch out they are as good as any team in baseball. If they have injuries well who knows a Triple A unknown can end up being a hero! All they need is there big shot to prove it.

by santo4hall on Aug 10, 2009 11:05 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Score

I love a 3-run homer as much as the next guy, but when a team can’t score consistently, they are not a Championship team. Yesterday was a perfect example….5 runs on 17 hits. 28 LOB, 0 BB and 3 errors. Top of the 7th inning, down 8-3, Lee and Fox lead off with singles, Fukudome and Soriano make the outs swinging for the fences. All the Cubs needed was a hit. Play small ball!! Advance the runners. As much as a 3-run homer may lift the team, not scoring with runners on and no outs can deflate the team more. Stevens gives up 3 runs in the bottom of the 7th.

"Stay thirsty my friends."

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 1:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll bet you a dollar

you’re adding up that LOB number wrong. 17 hits, no walks cannot possibly add up to 28 LOB. 5 runs wins you the game in most places. Colorado isn’t one of those places. The errors were what lost this game for us, not the offense.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your opinion

I didn’t add up anything, 28 was the number in the Box Score. I guess 13 officially. 28 was overall when you total the runners LOB by Theriot (2), Bradley (1), Lee (4), Fox (2), Fukudome (4), Soriano (5), Baker (6), Hill (1), Wells (2), and Fontentot (1). With 17 hits, you need to score more runs.

STAY THIRSTY, my friends!!

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 2:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You can't total LOB like that. It's not accurate.

That would be 3 men per each of the nine innings, plus one.

You are right about the missed scoring opportinities, though. Too many wasted chances.

(BTW, the discussion flows better if you use the reply function)

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 10, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

reply

doesn’t always work

STAY THIRSTY, my friends!!

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes it does

just click the right one.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK...he isn't describing the technical term "LOB"....

But what would be the stat for runners LOB after each At Bat…….

i.e. Assuming lead off man gets on…..batter in 2 hole walks…3-4 and 5 all strike out….
1 LOB for 2 nd 2 each for 3-4 and 5…

Or better yet……LOB/out….for each out, figure out how many runners were still on base….that more accurately reflects walks and Sac flies…but still hurts sac bunts…then you could have 27*3 potential LOB’s

I think he is trying to convey a stat I’m all for……one that tries to point out clutch hitters vs. chokers.

Notice ESPN removed it’s tally of such a measure from its box scores this year….

The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."

by kcjones on Aug 13, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's pretty nebulous

I’m not a huge fan of the sacrifice bunt, but if the manager tells you to do it, you do it. So, you want to create a stat that penalizes players for bunting?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I win a dollar!

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your Mom should be so proud

13 official LOB. If half of those score, 6.5+5=11.5, we win the game. The Cubs have to start taking advantage of scoring opportunities if they want to win anything. IMO, the Cubs are taking their non-productive at bats onto the field with them causing the poor defense.

STAY THIRSTY, my friends!!

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

LOB

Right, if half the LOB score, the Cubs win 11.5 to 11. Unless the Rockies manage to score .75 runs in the bottom of the ninth. I think Drew still gets the dollar and reply has never failed for me.

by cliff on Aug 10, 2009 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and how many

of the 11 runs that the Rockies scored were due to defensive miscues on the part of the Cubs?

Yes. Leaving men on base is bad. Every team does it. We’re doing a lot better then we were in the first half.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leave your comments to yourself

Al,
Please ban me from this web site. You can’t voice an opinion without being belittled and berated by people who think they know everything. Their opinion rules!

STAY THIRSTY, my friends!!

by bigz38fan on Aug 10, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure Drew and Cliff's responses had nothing to do with:
Your opinion

or

Your Mom should be so proud

I don’t think either of them belittled OR berated you.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 10, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

first of all, why do you need to be banned from a site in order to keep from participating in it, and secondly, while you’ve every right to voice your opinion, you’ve NO right to have that opinion go unchecked. I say a lot of stuff here, and I get a lot of guff here too, and that’s part of life.

You can have your opinion be that we had 28 LOB, but that doesn’t mean we have to say “oh, well, let’s debate whether or not that’s correct”. It’s wrong, and you know it’s wrong. Now, we CAN debate the opinion “is 13 LOB too many”, to which my response is “of course, 1 LOB is too many” but no team (and I’m sure someone can find an example to blow my point here) scores EVERY runner. We scored five runs. usually, that’s enough to win the game. Except in Colorado last night.

If you wanna argue THAT point, then excellent, let’s go. But don’t get all huffy when you say “28 LOB!” and are questioned on your math.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Aug 10, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't know about being belittled.....

I can tell you about being belittled!!!!!!!!

"I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member" : Groucho Marx

by Dave Pendleton on Aug 10, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoyed this piece. Great Job

This is the type of discussion I love to read about. It gives you perspective on many opinions and hpopefully makes you see things in a different way.

I would like to see the Cubs win series against good teams. It seems (and I haven’t researched) that we always tend to lose those series. We definitely need to take advantage of the Phils this week. They have not been playing that great. I am a little worried about the pitching lineup we have though.

when asked about his performance against the Reds - Lieber said the following
"Well obviously I made some bad pitches today, left to many over the plate and they got good wood on the ball. The only good thing was that I was able to get back into the clubhouse earlier then I planned so I could eat."

by 1060 W Addison on Aug 10, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No

To have a chance they need to play more consistent on the road, tighten up their defense, and find some timely hitting. I’m especially pessimistic after witnessing in person the past two games. Just an awful display of baseball.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill

by propheteer on Aug 11, 2009 12:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent analysis....

I agree completely

The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."

by kcjones on Aug 11, 2009 5:38 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the WS?

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!GET REAL AL JESUS HAVE WE BEEN WATCHING THE SAME TEAM?

by goatstew on Aug 11, 2009 11:00 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yes and No

The Cubbies have what it takes to win the World Series, on paper. They have pitching & offense, if they play like they should on paper, then yes. However, but if they play like they have so far then no they don’t.

"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009

by DrCrawdad on Aug 11, 2009 11:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you are far too nice Doc

I would say they don’t even have it on paper this year.

Answer is a resounding NO.

by socalbob on Aug 12, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It'll be interesting

to look at this thread on Oct. 4 and see who was right and who was wrong.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If the Cubs make the playoffs, how will you know yet?

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 12, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?

I’m a little dense (surprise), so pardon my question.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 12, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought the question was if they have enough to win the WS.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Aug 12, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's right.

Did you mean November 4?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 12, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't mean to say he wasn't clever

I meant to say “pretty clever, no?” I get what he was getting at now.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Aug 13, 2009 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah.

Wo ming bai.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Aug 13, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don’t know what it is but something is lacking this year. That spark that was there this time last year is gone off somewhere.
Cubbies will go to the world series………if they buy tickets. :(

by gydigh on Aug 12, 2009 8:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

HELL NO!!

"He can't hit, he can't field, he can't run—all he can do is beat you."

by Itchy on Aug 18, 2009 1:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

no......

I’m an unbeliever after the last two games against the Padres!

I wanted a happy birthday outcome! It’s my party and I can cry if I want to!

by AussieCub on Aug 19, 2009 5:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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