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The Tale Of The Season: Cubs Defense, Marmol Fail In 7-5 Loss To Reds

Even I, the eternal optimist, have to admit that the task of making a baseball miracle and getting this Cubs team into the playoffs is probably impossible now.

The Cubs lost to the Reds 7-5 on another sun-kissed September afternoon that reminded all of us of the summer we missed, both baseball-wise and weatherwise. That wasn't the entire story, of course; the Cubs made a stirring comeback from a 5-0 deficit to tie the game in the bottom of the 7th, only to lose.

Wasn't that about the story of the entire season? We got teased from time to time, the team making us think they were about to make an extended run and get back into the race, only to fall back and have reality set in.

Today, the Cubs gave the Reds six outs in the third inning and no team can expect to overcome bad play like that. They were, in fact, lucky to get out of that inning with only two runs scoring. One of the three Cub errors in that inning was an unlucky one -- Aramis Ramirez couldn't have aimed the throw on Drew Stubbs' grounder better than he actually threw it. The ball hit Corky Miller in the helmet and ricocheted at least 100 feet away into about the fifth row behind the Cubs dugout. A run scored and runners wound up on second and third. This was after Derrek Lee, as sure-handed a fielder as the Cubs have, fumbled a bunt attempt by pitcher Johnny Cueto, which should have been an automatic out.

Even after that, the Cubs could have gotten out of the inning with no runs scoring. Darnell McDonald hit a ball to Ryan Theriot, who threw home to get Cueto. That left runners on first and third with one out, and Randy Wells got the tough Joey Votto to hit a grounder right to Lee for what should have been an inning-ending double play. Unfortunately, Theriot dropped the ball, and Brandon Phillips' subsequent single scored the second run of the inning.

Both of those runs were unearned due to the errors, and the three runs that scored in the third should have been unearned, too; Votto's ball that glanced off Lee's glove was scored a hit, but should have also been an error. That could have been a double play, too, and then even after a pair of walks Jonny Gomes' grounder would have ended the inning with no runs scoring.

Star-divide

Randy Wells deserved better, and the bullpen did a good job of keeping the Reds at five runs while the Cubs were hurriedly catching up; Geovany Soto, whose bat has come alive in this series, hit doubles in the sixth and seventh innings, driving in three of the five runs the Cubs scored to come back and tie. Ramirez was thrown out at the plate -- I would have sent him too, with two out and the tying run already in. It took a perfect throw and relay to get him.

But then, Carlos Marmol came in. Marmol has been very good since being anointed closer, but this was not a save situation and Marmol pitched like the old, bad, pre-closer Marmol. Even after a slick DP got him to two out and no one on, he walked a pair and gave up a two-run double to a .176 hitter, Drew Sutton. (Can you tell the difference between Drew Stubbs and Drew Sutton? I can't.) How can you do that? In any case, Angel Guzman should have been in this game instead of Marmol, but apparently, Guzman is deep in Lou's doghouse after the two had words the other day in Pittsburgh when Guzman didn't agree with Lou's decision to yank him.

That simply can't happen. Guzman was wrong to do that, but at a certain point, the manager has to put the guy in the game who has the best chance of doing the job at hand. In this case, in a tie game in the ninth inning, it was Guzman's role, not Marmol's.

So at this point, what to do? Play guys who have a chance to be contributors next year. Bobby Scales, thank you for your moment in the sun, but you're not going to be a Cub in 2010. Jake Fox should be in LF every day while Alfonso Soriano is on the shelf, in order to either determine his role in 2010 or increase his trade value. Same for Andres Blanco; he should be playing SS every day, particularly since Theriot is hitting .211 since August 15. Let's find out whether Blanco is someone who could be the primary backup infielder next year. And let's not put Aaron Miles into any more games, please.

I'll have lots more to say about 2010 once this season has finally ended. It's been difficult -- as you all well know -- in many ways. Until then, try to enjoy the rest of the season; perhaps there will be a thrilling comeback win, or a great individual performance to enjoy. It's still baseball, and we all love the game, or at least I hope you do. We'll miss it when winter comes. And next year will bring new ownership and new hope. Keep the faith; someday, the Cubs WILL win the World Series. In the meantime, I'm off to the U2 concert tonight at Soldier Field; maybe I'll see you there.

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So what you're really saying Al, is that even though it was...
a beautiful day,
you stilllllll…. haven’t founnnnnnd…. what you’re looking for….

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 4:11 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm just...

… stuck in a moment, can’t get out of it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

You've got to get yourself together!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 12, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't believe the news today.

Oh, I cant close my eyes and make it go away.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Sep 12, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Through the storm we reach the shore,

You gave it all but I want more.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 12, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

They used those lyrics..

… from “Sunday, Bloody Sunday”, with video from game 5 of the 1984 NLCS, in the video from that year.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fox

Is Fox hurt? Or is there a reason he has only been pinch hitting the last few days?

"Don't think; it can only hurt the ball club."

by Jesse Guam on Sep 12, 2009 4:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I think Lou's pissed at him.

Why, I have no idea.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Why is Lou...

…mad at Fox? BTW: Why does it seem like everyone is mad at Fox? I just read something about him and Scott Serviss(sp?) getting into it a lot in the minors…

by TheHawkRules on Sep 12, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Was Howry a victim of the proverbial doghouse?

I keep seeing conversations pop up that refer to him as a quality reliever. That’s not my memory.

by ol Pete on Sep 12, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

He could be really good at times - think Farnsworth without the thick head

Then again, he really knew how to “gregg” it up at times, too.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

He was NEVER in the doghouse

Lou kept putting him out game after game to give up gopher balls. He even said he talked to him in the last week of the season as if that fixed everything NOT. It was EYRE who was in the doghouse and released. He was great for Philly last year and great this year. He has the last laugh.

To be fair Howry was good in his first two seasons with the Cubs and so was Eyre.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Howry

Threw strikes.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Sep 13, 2009 9:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Howry was

a quality reliever until 2008

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is more reason

that Lou should go. Pissed at Fox, Pissed at Guzman, PIssed at Wuertz, Pissed at Eyre etc….
 Jeez Lou get over yourself.

by Grockcubs on Sep 12, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

for every quality player he hates

he loves 2 crappy ones

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where...

… or why is Lou mad at Fox? I want to see some evidence of this.

An no… just lack of playing time isn’t enough evidence…

by TheHawkRules on Sep 12, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, do you have a better explanation as to why Fox hasn't played as much recently?

Lou being mad at Fox is the working theory of most here because it’s the most plausible. And I don’t think any of us really care if Lou is mad at Fox or not – what we want to know is why isn’t Fox playing more. So again, if you have a better explanation, I’m all ears eyes.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wish one of

the media had the balls to ask Lou why Fox isn’t playing.

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Sep 12, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Fox hit on Lou's wife at a party...

…its the only thing I can come up with… ’

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Sep 12, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

That would make her the only thing Fox has been hitting lately...

The guy has looked really bad at the plate over the last few weeks.

by SouthernCub on Sep 13, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

… its possible, but possibility doesn’t make it truth.

Maybe Lou believes we’d have a better chance at winning if he plays veterns? Maybe he believes Fox can’t handle playing everyday, and if they want to trade him during the offseason, they want to limit his faults… I dunno where exactly he can play everyday on this team… so if he is going to be traded in the offseason, then Lou and Hendry want to keep a desirable light upon him…

These are my first two thoughts… and they are just as possible as the “being in Lous doghouse.”

by TheHawkRules on Sep 14, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

thats just it

no one knows why Fox isn’t playing… so anger from Lou is the only option everyone seems to agree on.

It wouldn’t be the first time Lou ignored a player b/c he had some issues.

Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave

by Allie on Sep 12, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fox asked them

Yesterday if they are mad at him and the coaches said no

by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 12, 2009 8:46 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’ve been wondering the same thing. Barring injury, there is simply no sensible reason why he should not have been starting at least half of the time since Soriano has been out.

by cwpettis on Sep 12, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

The guy has hit when given the opportunity. No reason he should be sitting while Scales gets to play.

by qccub on Sep 12, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Except that he hasn't hit for the last month...

Here are his numbers of late:

last 14 days (18 PA): .111/.111/.167 (.278 OPS), 8 K
last 28 days (38 PA): .222/.263/.444 (.708 OPS), 18 K

Fox has been atrocious at the plate lately. Perhaps pitchers have made adjustments to him.

If you aren’t hitting AND you are bad defensively, you don’t play. That’s what the problem is for Fox at this point. Now, there may also be a “doghouse” issue. But to say there’s no logical explanation for why Fox isn’t playing is ignoring the fact that he’s stopped mashing.

by SouthernCub on Sep 13, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

At the same time...

… maybe regular playing time would help him. As you note, he’s had 18 PA in the last 14 days, and has started only two games this month.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2009 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

They want Fox to look good...

…because they are going to trade him during the offseason.

by TheHawkRules on Sep 14, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

this is what happens when aaron miles plays

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 4:16 PM CDT reply actions  

I was busy

watching my Hawkeyes kick the crap out of Iowa State.

by qccub on Sep 12, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

GO HAWKS!!!!!

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Sep 12, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was busy watching my Spartans...

…oh, never mind… :P

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Sep 12, 2009 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

aw, so sorry Zeke ;-)

Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT

by sue369 on Sep 12, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I was disappointed.

Always rooting for the Big1T1en in non-conference play.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2009 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I just finished watching my Trojans break the heart of Ohio State. Sweet...

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Sep 12, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

yeah

i bailed. beautiful summery day i wasn’t going to sit at the computer anymore.

especially when you start thinking that it’ll be snowing soon enough. enjoy the sun while you can.

Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave

by Allie on Sep 12, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

That will be me tomorrow.

I’m going to a local dog show.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 12, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I did just that.

Sat on the deck at Castaway’s (North Avenue Beach) drinking margaritas and watching sun-kissed strangers play volleyball and frolic in the sand.

It was a good day.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Sep 12, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I stuck it out.

I spent most of the time after the fourth inning talking college football with Zeke.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 12, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. See above. GD u-m came back to beat ND.

Now it’ll be all over MSM that u-m is BACK and SOS (Same old Spartans)… :P

Crap.

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Sep 12, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

ND is over-rated (clap-clap-clapclapclap)

Don’t worry about the tangerines just yet

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2009 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

No offense to Craig in South Bend . . .

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 12, 2009 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

This game does sum up the year.

This team was out of it for awhile, but this is the type of the game that just happens to frequently for the Cubs.
 Why Fox is on the bench, is just beyond belief. If he finishes strong Fox could be a chip used for a trade. The more I watch Theriot, the more I am convinced he is not a major league SS, move him to second or trade him also.
 If Guzman is in the so-called “lou’s” doghouse, then screw Lou. Work the difference out, and get Guzman back on the mound. You can make a case that Guzman has been the Cubs best pitcher in the pen all year.
 Just curious, what was the crowds reaction to Bradley striking out with the bases loaded?

by Grockcubs on Sep 12, 2009 4:22 PM CDT reply actions  

Fairly loud booing.

I didn’t mention it because I didn’t want to stir up more Bradley talk. We’ve had enough, I think. I’ll have more to say about Bradley when the season is over.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just curious, what was the crowds reaction to Bradley striking out with the bases loaded?

i heard people saying woooooo

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

or maybe lou

im not sure…

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Livid...

And as an aside, I can’t figure out which was worse; Lou sending Fox in to pinch-hit in the fifth, or choosing to send Miles in to pinch-hit at all.

by Damen Jackson on Sep 12, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Both.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 12, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

That first sentence sums it up for me.

This one was painful.

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 12, 2009 4:28 PM CDT reply actions  

not sure if guzman instead of marmol was the right call

it was the middle of the reds order coming up – marmol gets them and cubs win in 9th was the plan I think -

by doofus cubs guy on Sep 12, 2009 5:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Well then,

I really hope Guzman gets into a game soon to disprove the “Lou is angry at Guzman” talk.

Though I agree that there must be a reason why Guzman isn’t getting into games anymore.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 12, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Listen

If Marmol can’t pitch well when the score is tied, because it is not a save opportunity, there is a bigger problem than his crappy outing today.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 5:40 PM CDT reply actions  

Using a closer in tie home game is not unreasable

but IF in fact Guzman is in the "doghouse’ and Lou chose not use him for that reason, it is pretty damn stupid.

PS The Phillies may have a bigger problem. Madson who is the “new” closer just gave up two in the 9th and lost the game. I don’t really get why Philly did not address the Lidge issue earler other than just assumng since he was perfect last year this was just some kind of funk he was going through ala the Cubs and Soriano.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

Actually REALLY bad day for closers so far

Franklin & Jenks have blown saves, Marmol & Fuentes have given up go ahead runs in tie games and most games are no where near over.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

fuentes has been horrible since july

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Madson's not the new closer, at least not all by himself

Manuel said he’ll go with Lidge, Madson or Myers, depending on situation.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Since all 3 have sucked

He has a BIG problem on his hands. College of closers is a BAD idea for a team going to the post season.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd rather have bad ideas on a postseason team then good ideas on a team staying home.

Frankly, I think he’s better off with 3 guys sharing the blame/credit than dumping it all on Lidge. No need to revisit that Pujols nightmare again.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heck I would be happy to start Miles

and have Gregg as our closer if it meant being in the post season and anyway once you get there a lot of stuff changes
fast. I am rooting for the Philies. I want “Stevie” Eyre to get another ring.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's nothing inherent to baseball about the role of a closer.

Well, except for the rather dumb “save” stat. It does happen that designating a guy as a closer gets him a fair amount of work over a season and tends to put your best reliever in the most important situations, so it’s a reasonable strategy. The reason that “closer by committee” tends to fail is not that it’s a bad idea, but that it’s almost always used in desperation by teams whose entire bullpen is struggling.

by aldimond on Sep 12, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think

That we will have to agree to disagree on what Lou should do.

I know that you are in the camp that says that Lou is a toothless old hound that should be sent home to stay. But here you go, trying to pull his few remaining teeth. I see that argument as inconsistent, and I think that Lou needs to be able to discipline this lot.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if true he is "displining " guys for the wrong reasons.

He tolerates Sorianos HORRIBLE play both offense and defense until Sori himself takes himself out but is somehow
benching or at least mysteriously not using Fox & Guzman because they have some kind of "bad " attitude ? Now there may be more background here but based on what he did to Eyre etc Lou just freezed out guys who somehow don’t do what he wants yet coddles some of the crappiest players on the team. This year his has seems particularly uninvolved but my main issue for the last TWO seasons is his horrific in game managing in which he basically seems never to think more than one batter ahead. It is not new just that poor play this year by regulars magnified his inability to make the right moves during games and in setting the line up. He clearly has never had much support from the players which I really don’t care about IF really did kick butt in the RIGHT direction. Now he is basically Dusty without Dusty’s one great attribute of motivating players.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still think

That we will have to agree to disagree on what Lou should do.

From your narrative, I don’t see any common agreement on what is going on out there. You have your interpretation, and I have a completely different interpretation.

As I said in another post, days ago, I think that Lou mined our farm system for the few nuggets that it contained (Marmol, Theriot, Marshall, Soto, and sometimes Hill) in 2007 and 2008. There ain’t much left in the upper levels. It is a bad sign when everyone that you are bringing up is 27 years old or older (but god bless you and best wishes, Bobby Scales). All of these guys are 1/5 or 2/5 tool players. I think that Dusty completely failed to promote anyone from the farm system, and I see Lou as head and shoulders above him in that regard. He made the veterans happy (I guess) and brought in an old favorite (Neifi) or two.

And what about making Dempster back into a starter and Wood into a closer? No credit to Lou for either of those moves? I thought that they were pretty audacious and doomed to failure at the time, but they paid off big time. If you damn him for the assembly of the team in 2009, you have to at least praise him for the assembly of the team in 2008.

I still don’t get all the hatred for Lou.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't hate Lou

But he is just awful at in game managing. He has no plan beyond the next batter and he coddles his pets ( usually but not always veterans) and banishes others. This is all VERY old news since this has been my opinion since April of 08 ( yes THAT game again) though at the time 99% of the list thought me crazy. Beyond everything else a manager whose post game response to one horrific lose after another is " what do you want me to do" is NOT a leader or a manager. I was one of the last people to think that Dusty had to go because while I accept his in game managing was nearly as insane as Lou’s has been this year he dealt with a LOT more injuries and had the saving grace of inspiring players who wanted to go through walls for him. In the end that lead to a lot of Neffi but it was not overall a terrible thing. Virtually every player who has left the Cubs ( Wood, DeRosa, Eyre) has indicated however subtly that they did not think Lou treated them right and that speaks volumes to me. Earlier in the season I thought there was ZERO chance of Lou leaving, now I am more hopeful. I don’t want to see another season of wasted talent. I understand the players are the ones who have to perform but a manager needs to know how use them to do it and to make them feel at least useful and I don’t think Lou has done that.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh well, at least you don't hate him...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

AMEN......

Gotta agree with alot you said here…..

by cubs north on Sep 12, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with everything you say,

But one thing … which game are you referring to?

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 13, 2009 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wounder how the Cubs are going to approach the offseason.

Is Chone Figgins in the Cubs radar? Are the Cubs going to keep Miles, Fontenot, and Baker at second? Should the Cubs say goodbye to Gregg and Heilman? Is Grabow going to sign with the Cubs? I think in 2010 the Cardinals are going to be the only competition in the central division.

by Cubbiegoon on Sep 12, 2009 6:42 PM CDT reply actions  

Should the Cubs say goodbye to Gregg and Heilman?

yes, 5 year deals with NTCs

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

by yes i mean no

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

fraudian slip?

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Sep 12, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Call me nuts

But I don’t think they need to make a lot of major moves. Needless to say I would like to see Lou suddenly discover he misses seeing his grandchildren and become a “special advisor” but roster wise dump Heilman, Gregg, Miles & Fontenot and I am sorry to say Johnson whom I really love. Keep Baker & Blanco. Harden will walk and I suspect Grabow will too but I also think they can be replaced in house. You have a team that VASTLY underperformed at most positions and a bloated payroll so believe it or not I think a little tinkering should do the trick. I mean if you can trade for a really good SS or 2B go for it otherwise most of the positions are pretty locked down. I am ok with Baker at 2B and I am more than OK with Blanco on the bench. I think Fuld has earned his way to the bench and Fox as well who should spend the off season working on being a backup at 3B & 1B. I don’t see any spot for Hoff but if you can’t trade him he might as well fight for a bench spot. Gorzo & Marshall fight for 5th starter ( or anyone from Iowa I suppose) loser goes long relief. I am sure Blou will think me crazy but I don’t think any massive changes except at manager are needed and I realize that probably won’t happen but I can always hope.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 12, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

and what about Naomi?

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Sep 12, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great closing paragraph, Al.

It perfectly reflects how I feel at least. For better or worse, enjoy the season while it lasts.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 12, 2009 6:48 PM CDT reply actions  

so glad this wasn't the national game of the week

Mrs. Cubnational got a tweet from my sister in law at the game:

what a beautiful day at Wrigley (even if the Cubs are playing like the Cubs)!

I would have puked, but the day was redeemed watching the Cards get stepped on by the Braves. For 30 minutes, I chopped and warchanted with them .. and the boys from the South came through.

Didn’t watch any of the game today because I’m too broke to afford MLB.TV .. and it sounds like this game really was but a microcosm of 2009, with the fat lady warming up under the stands.

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Sep 12, 2009 7:05 PM CDT reply actions  

is he left handed

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so.

But he could climb the ivy at Wrigley.

by Cubbiegoon on Sep 12, 2009 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I gotta disagree with the idea that Marmol shouldn't have been in...

Exactly what situation should he have been used in today? There was never going to be a save situation given that we were the home team and it was in the 9th.

Plus, we were facing the middle of Cincy’s order AND we had the top of our lineup coming up in the 9th.

There was no better situation to go to the closer to shut down Cincy and then get the winning run in the bottom of the inning.

by SouthernCub on Sep 12, 2009 7:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Rec'd

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

9/10 times you have your closer in the 9th in a home game.

Marmol has been solid. And as you said he induced a DP. It sucks we lost, it sucks Marmol blew the game, but he’s been better than Gregg.

Too bad Cubs couldn’t have left it 5-5 in bottom of 9th and had a nice walkoff HR. I think Cubs fans deserved a nice game winner like that this year.

by ak123 on Sep 12, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yup

There’s a “blame Lou for everything” epidemic going round. Might as well blame Lou for this one too I guess.

by shoemile on Sep 13, 2009 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

also

The home-plate umpire really blew a call on a a 2-2 pitch to whoever was hitting after the DP. Marmol had strike three. Inning should have been over.

Now, Marmol shouldn’t be allowing doubles to Drew-freaking-Sutton. But strike calls were hugely significant in the results of today’s game.

by elgato on Sep 13, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

the ump messed up on the 2-2 call and the 3-2 call

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 13, 2009 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

i think there is a heck of a lot to be concerned about for 2010

1) Marmol cannot be relied upon as our closer. That is a fact. You insert him as closer and you are asking for 10-12 blown saves
2) Pinella saying he likes Dome and Theriot at the top of the order is suicidal (Dome is back down to basically a .260 hitter and doesn’t steal bases – this is the guy Pinella wants at the top of the order?)
3) Theriot cannot field, run bases or draw BB

What are the promising pieces —
1) Lee and Ramirez mean no worries at the corner positions
2) I have to think Bradley and Soto will get it together for next year
3) Baker very promising at 2B

by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 12, 2009 7:43 PM CDT reply actions  

I wouldn't exactly say that Dome to lead off is suicidal

The OBP is more important than average or speed here. Speed is nice to disrupt the pitcher’s rhythmn when the guy gets on base, but getting on base is more important.

Theriot has been better at dinking hits to right field than he has been this season. The HR burst messed him up a bit. I think that Theriot can be valuable, but he would be good enough if he could get those dink hits again, be more patient at the plate again, and get some regular rest throughout the season.

I agree with the promising bits. I just saw Baker’s numbers since joining the Cubs, and did not realize how good they were. He deserves a chance, but they should sure see if they can improve up the middle, at 2B or SS.

"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill

by vonde6 on Sep 12, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

On the plus side, I found out the wife of a friend of mine has access to two sets of season tickets

to the Cubs through her company. We’re already talking about getting to use some of them next season.

She said they call them their good and bad seats. The “bad” seats are in row four of the upper deck by first base.

I said: “Are you KIDDING me? You think those are BAD seats?” So I asked where the “good” seats are.

Row 2 next to the visitors dugout by the on deck circle.

Well, Ok, by comparison maybe but really…

Anyway: Wait ’til NEXT YEAR!

Quia tuum es fatum titulis discidiis, vexillinis limbis nationalis,
gloriam seriis mundialisque, nunc et in saecula saeculorum...

Amen.

by Zeke on Sep 12, 2009 7:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Definition of Curse

Definition = 2009 Cubs Team Players! Pinella’s short fuse against and favoritism for various Cubs players, certainly has not molded a true team spirit. Milton Bradley once said that baseball is a hard game to play. I agree. I have come to realize that had it not been for the individual efforts of the guys on the current Cubs team the Cubs would not be second best the NL Central Division.

I watched a considerable amount of Cubs games this season and all I can say is that Pinella’s lack of reasonable managerial decisions was the reason for the Cubs not having a better win ratio then the team currently has.

Maybe when Lou comes back in 2010 to manage the Cubs he’’ll stop letting his little head tell the big head how to manage the team.

by Shambles on Sep 12, 2009 8:36 PM CDT reply actions  

wait - Lou's got a little Farny too?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

"lou, have gregg pitch to albert pujols!"

“ok farney!”

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can't wait for BCB Annual Report Cards

Here’s a spoiler on mine:

Aaron Miles gets an F and nobody receives an A+.

by ak123 on Sep 12, 2009 8:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Aaron Miles gets an F and nobody receives an A+.

i can think of 3 people that deserve A+’s

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

Because I reserve an A+ only if my team makes it to the post season.

I’ll give out A’s but no A+

by ak123 on Sep 12, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

ted lilly and his 2 clones are all deserving imo

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

A A A

I can’t give them an A+. Sorry…everyone is entitled to their own grades. I’m sure others will give DLee and A+ and perhaps even Randy Wells but the fact is, you don’t go to post season, you don’t get an A+.

I wouldn’t even give Pujols an A+ in 2008. 2009, he’d get one.

by ak123 on Sep 12, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

how many pitchers can fly?

3

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just making conversation here, but...

…why bother handing out individual grades if you’re going to let one aspect of the team’s overall performance influence it?

Pujols has a monster 2008 and you’re gonna penalize him because the rest of the team didn’t play well enough to make the post-season? I mean, aren’t individual grades just that – grades for the individual?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 12, 2009 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just my opinion

I don’t really see a big difference between an A and an A+. I just won’t give one to a team that didn’t make it to post season. Sorry, really don’t have much more to say about this….

by ak123 on Sep 13, 2009 4:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

More than a little tweaking needed

What’s difficult is making assumptions about how Fukudome will perform at the plate. He can draw a walks, but will he perform offensively in 2010 like he has so far this season or better, or will he flop like he did in 08’? One thing to take for granted is that he’ll be back and so will Soriano; not positive but a reasonable assumption I think.

The Cubs shouldn’t fill-out their roster for 2010 pretending Fukudome and Soriano aren’t still taking up two spots on the roster. Further, they will probably play alot unless they flop for weeks, maybe months, or go on the DL. So, Theriot, Bradley and/or Baker are the players who would get alot of playing time if they remain with the team and should, instead, be traded so that somebody who can hit for OPS can be brought-in. Personally, I’d rather they keep Baker and let Theriot and Bradley go.

Soto was on my roster clearance list too, but he is hitting well lately. Can’t tell whether that is a Pirates/Reds/Mets thing, or maybe he’s back to form. The free agent market for catchers isn’t good, so getting a viable primary catcher wouldn’t be easy anyway. Just hoping Soto can produce in 2010 because trading him this season should be a lower priority.

Realizing that not every good team has to have the superior hitting that the 08’ Cubs did, but they do need more of what that lineup had IMO. Even with Fukudome flopping the way that he did and Soriano with DL stints, that team was capable of scoring runs until the season was almost over. It would be a miracle if they replaced the players who have to be moved out during 1 offseason. But their isn’t enough luck in the world to think that Ramirez, Lee and Soriano can perform at high enough levels to make-up for not having enough RBI hitters. So, I hope they can make some deals before next season starts.

by AboutTheCubs on Sep 12, 2009 11:21 PM CDT reply actions  

Further, they will probably play alot unless they flop for weeks, maybe months

soriano would like to disagree

people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face

by jesus christos on Sep 12, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see the need to replace Fukudome

His ops+ is 111 at the moment. Not amazing, and not worth 12 million, but I don’t see why people are so upset about paying a guy that much who isn’t a product of our farm system. He’s doing fairly well.

by shoemile on Sep 13, 2009 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

well the 12 million dollar salary is an issue for people

a product of our farm system would’ve been under control for a while and not in line for that kind of money

by shoemile on Sep 13, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

We really do suck don't we?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 12, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Good news! Cardinals, Giants and Rockies all lose!

Oh wait… so did we…. darn… never mind…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Sep 13, 2009 12:09 AM CDT reply actions  

doghouse

dont screw with lou. the message of the day. i think lou suddenly has issues with fox for his defense. i remember murton dropping a fly ball and being sent to aaa the next day. the guzman thing i did not know about. but you dont hurt the team because your pissed at the player. we have enough drama following the cubs without this crap. play the best you got. as for next year release miles and keep blanco. they can do this because they ate at least 3 contracts this year.

by NOMAR on Sep 13, 2009 7:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Why hasn't Soriano been sent down to AAA for consistently dropping fly balls?

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Sep 13, 2009 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Partly because by rule you can't send a veteran to AAA...

without clearing a lot of hurdles.

And partly because Soriano had been such a productive hitter (up until about May of this year).

by SouthernCub on Sep 13, 2009 7:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're not serious, are you?

Because a veteran like that can’t just be “sent down”.

Not that he doesn’t need help. But that’s not the solution.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 13, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

It was obviously sarcasm, guys. Sorry, I am very sarcastic nowadays :-)

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Sep 13, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

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