Some History And History Lessons: Cubs vs. Brewers Preview, Monday 9/14, 7:05 CT
by Al on Sep 14, 2009 4:00 PM CDT
in Game Threads
76 comments
Today, Dave van Dyck wrote in the Tribune:
Today's lesson is about the theory of relativity, baseball-style.
In other words, how good or bad the Cubs are in relation to other teams, and it doesn't take an Einstein to figure it out.
With their Sunday victory against the Reds, the Cubs are 19-7 against Cincinnati and Pittsburgh this season. Throw in Houston and Cleveland, two other also-rans, and you have a total record of 32-13.
So why aren't the Cubs contending?
Against likely playoff-bound teams St. Louis, Philadelphia, Colorado and Detroit, their combined record is 11-25.
In other words, they don't deserve to be playing into October with those teams.
OK, Mr. Einstein van Dyck, let me give you a little lesson -- this time in baseball history, and why the regular season and the postseason are two different animals. And we don't have to go back too far in baseball history for this; all we need to do is look at the records of two recent World Series champions.
In 2005, the White Sox were 6-10 in the regular season against the two teams they faced in the American League playoffs, the Red Sox and Angels. Should have been an easy time for those two teams, right? Nope, the White Sox went 7-1 against them in October.
In 2006, the Cardinals played all three of their postseason opponents during the regular season (Padres, Mets and Tigers). Combined record? 4-11. Combined postseason record vs. the same three teams? 11-5. And that was after the Cardinals nearly blew a seven-game lead with 12 games remaining in the regular season (losing seven in a row while the Astros were winning nine straight), and had to count on Houston losing on the season's final day to avoid having to play a makeup game the day after.
Point: while the task ahead of the Cubs is still daunting, if they keep winning, who knows what might happen? Stranger things have happened. Just ask the 2007 Rockies.
Oh, and today is the one-year anniversary of some game vs. the Astros in Milwaukee that you might remember.
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Jeff Suppan has pitched three times vs. the Cubs this year, with two losses and a no-decision (the Cubs won that one, too). In 16.2 innings he's posted a 4.86 ERA against the Cubs in 2009. Derrek Lee, who's been hot lately, loves hitting against Suppan: .429 (21-for-49), seven doubles, four HR. D-Lee is three RBI short of 100 this year -- tonight would be a good time to reach that milestone.
Ryan Dempster also has three starts vs. his opponent tonight, the Brewers. He's 2-1 despite a 5.21 ERA in those three outings. Dempster and Suppan faced each other on April 12 in Milwaukee, the game where Reed Johnson made the great catch to rob Prince Fielder of a grand slam. (And I thought about that and thought, "That was this year? Seems like about five years ago.) Fielder has hit a pair of HR in his career vs. Dempster, but the Brewer who hits him best is Jason Kendall (.413, 19-for-46). Incidentally, with Fielder's next RBI he will set the Brewers' single season club record; he is currently tied (126) with current Astros manager Cecil Cooper. Let's hope he sets that record starting Friday in a series against the Astros.
Today's game is on CSN Chicago and FSN Wisconsin. For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Brewerss site Brew Crew Ball. But be careful over there; they've been known to ban Cubs fans in the blink of an eye.
Once again, just two overflow threads today -- 8:15 and 9:15 pm CDT. If there's a need for another one, please post as a FanShot.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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I thought about us for a long, long time
by Emelie on Sep 14, 2009 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now I have that in my head.
Damn you.
by Mapmaker on Sep 14, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be around, once in a while.
Or if I ever need a reason to smile.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 14, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As always,
winning is much more fun. Let’s win and keep winning all the way though the 2010 season and beyond.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
by mrcubsfan on Sep 14, 2009 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Feels like 3 years
Since we last feasted on Soup.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Sep 14, 2009 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and today is the one-year anniversary of some game vs. the Astros in Milwaukee that you might remember.
i think i heard about that!
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 4:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What's Carlos' record since that no-no? Just curious...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Sep 14, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
8-7
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z quickly turned a no-no into a long path of so-so
And so it goes.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Sep 14, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And is yet another reason the Cubs will shop Z in the offseason...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
by Zeke on Sep 15, 2009 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suppan has more walks than Ks
I know he’s been bad but Wow.
And please don’t give Fielder anything to hit. Ever.
by Mapmaker on Sep 14, 2009 4:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please, Lou
start Jake Fox tonight. Please?
by elgato on Sep 14, 2009 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your Wish Is Granted
Per Twittermeyer:
riot, fuky (9), lee, rami, soto, fox (7), baker, fuld (8), demp
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Sep 14, 2009 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
F-Troop in the outfield
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
by Clutch16 on Sep 14, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say we have the F-troop at SS too
Private Vanderbilt?
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Sep 14, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
Again, Dome hitting second while Theriot bats leadoff? Crimony…
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Sep 14, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
THERIOT IS A GREAT LEADOFF HITTER
HE CAN SOMETIMES STEAL BASES AND SOMETIMES HITS THE BALL
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sarcasm detected
HE CAN ALL THE TIME GET THROWN OUT TRYING TO STEAL AND MOST OF THE TIME HAS A 3 PITCH AT-BAT ENDING IN AN OUT
Fixed
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YOURE IGNANT
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, Lou should be arrested for continuing to put Riot out there as leadoff.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Sep 14, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bigger crime will be when Miles pinch hits
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Sep 14, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playing Miles at all
should be a capital offense.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
by KaliCub on Sep 14, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
I’m more interested in Miles’ possible upside than Theriot’s.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 14, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather make Blanco play everyday the rest of the season
and get Theriot on some sort of conditioning program that allows him to play the final month of the season.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't plan on playing Theriot full time next year anyway.
At best, he and Fontenot should be fighting for the 2B job; if they each took 300 PA from 2B, that might work.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 14, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is my dream situation
But we all know that as long as Lou is the manager Ryan Theriot will be playing SS.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade him.
Trade him before he costs money.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 14, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
now all Theriot costs us is
extra base runners and higher pitch counts with that limited range and 2B arm.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Sep 14, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would be the first guy I offer to teams this offseason
IDK what the market would be, prolly not much, but probably something.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leadoff is not our problem
the 5 spot is.
Or something. Right? Uck.
It never gets to be easy
by chitownhawkeye on Sep 14, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not sure which spot it is
lou keeps changing his mind…
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some musings, a year after the no-hitter:
My wife and I snagged tickets the night before on the Cubs Web site. $60 each, seventh row right behind home plate.
It had been raining very hard that weekend, and Sunday the 14th was no exception. The drive up to Milwaukee was longer than usual. Also, I-94 was a mess with construction (still is).
Randy Wolf was very hittable then. The Cubs had already lit him up earlier that season, when he was still with the Padres—a game I also attended, in Wrigley alas. The Cubs faced Wolf twice this season and got stymied both times.
We were surrounded by very nice Cubs fans, and three Texans stranded in Wisconsin because the hurricane-du-jour cancelled their flights back to Houston. They couldn’t had been more gracious, except the son was a loud yeller, and he yelled encouragement to Tejada and Lee often and loud.
By the seventh inning, none of us wanted to talk about anything. We all just looked at each other in disbelief. My wife wanted to go to the bathroom, but I forbade it. The outs kept coming, and there were no hits. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. The energy kept rising. Most of the 23,000+ people in attendance were Cubs fans, and it was just electric inside that sterile box they call a stadium.
When Darrin Erstad struck out to end the game, everyone just exploded. I then proceeded to cry like a little girl—my wife recriminates me to this day because I didn’t cry on our wedding and I cried “because the Cubs won.”
The ride back to Chicago was fun too. Most people on I-94 were honking their horns, and we waved at each other when we passed them.
A truly unforgettable day I’ll cherish for the rest of my life.
by chilango2 on Sep 14, 2009 4:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my wife recriminates me to this day because I didn’t cry on our wedding and I cried "because the Cubs won."
atleast you have your priorities straight
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 14, 2009 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One correction:
My wife and I snagged tickets the night before on the Cubs Web site. $60 each,
We actually had to buy them off the Astros’ Web site. The apparel shops inside Miller had Astros paraphernalia, which I thought was strange but nice.
by chilango2 on Sep 14, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic pictures.
You are an adorable couple.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
by sue369 on Sep 14, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Las fotos son bonitas!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 14, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That park is amazing and you're insane.
Wrigley is a hole and we all know it. It may be Baseball Mecca to us all, but Miller Park kicks the sha-hit outta Wrigley.
by stuartscottslefteye on Sep 14, 2009 4:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I like new stadiums, just not Miller Park
Idunno what it is about it.
by chilango2 on Sep 14, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably knowing
that there are plenty of Packers fans attending the game.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 14, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still on that, eh?
Did you hear Cutler is going to draw the Pick 4 for the Illinois Lottery?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 14, 2009 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for sharing.
I went to Lilly’s one-hitter the next day. I almost didn’t go because I couldn’t find anyone to go along. I thought it would be too awkward and that I would be bored. My husband encouraged me to just go by myself. I am so glad I did! It was a blast and with no one else to talk to or distract me I was able to pay attention to every detail. At one point Edmunds made an awesome catch in the 6th to keep what was looking like a no hitter going for Lilly. It was as you say “electric”. I will never forget it.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 14, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great story Jose.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
by sue369 on Sep 14, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Similar story here.
Some friends and I had drunkenly talked about going the night before. When we woke up the next morning, one of them had already gotten tickets! No backing out then… we were headed out.
Traffic blew, i think we missed the first inning and a half. It was worth it.
A truly unforgettable day I’ll cherish for the rest of my life.
Exactly.
Follow me on twitter @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 14, 2009 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al is right on in response to van D.
Also – who’d have thought when Suppan and Marquis were both signed off that Cardinals team, that Suppan would have the 5+ ERA and Marquis the 4- ERA this year?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 14, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the lesson is
Don’t sign pitchers leaving the Cardinals if they weren’t good before getting there.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite birthday present ever
came last year. It definitely wasn’t “icing on the cake” when Z threw that no-no. Let’s hope we get another one tonight?
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Sep 14, 2009 4:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to disagree, but Van Dyck is right.
It’s pretty much the formula for a 90+ season…beat up on the teams you should, and play .500 against the really good teams…if the Cubs had done this against the teams Van Dyck mentioned, they would be right in the thick of it.
That stretch in LA, COL, and home to PHI was very telling, unfortunately.
Al, you seem to take these shots that people take at the Cubs personally. I love your passion and enthusiasm for this team, and your dedication to BCB, but it’s safe to say that you, and the rest of us, care more about the Cubs than many of the players wearing the laundry.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Sep 14, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
Why’d you have to go and remind me of the Z no-hitter, Al? I had tickets to that game (as scheduled in Houston) but instead spent the day looking for ice, checking in on my neighbors, and trying to call all my friends and family to make sure they knew I was OK. I couldn’t even listen on the internet – hardly anyone had power…
by false cognate on Sep 14, 2009 4:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice!
It sure seemed like a magical year at that point. Then the playoffs started, and, you know.
by Mapmaker on Sep 14, 2009 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replay fail
That was supposed to be for the photos you posted
by Mapmaker on Sep 14, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, me too.
Honestly, Ike was probably down to low Cat 1 or high tropical storm by the time it got to my apartment, and if that’s true, I have no desire to ever experience a Cat 3 or higher storm. The aftermath itself wasn’t that bad – it was interesting to see a major city brought to a standstill, and everyone pulled together, cooperated, and shared what they had to get through the next few days. But hurricane force winds howling through your neighborhood definitely will set you on edge.
The thing that sucked most was missing the Z no-hitter; I heard about it on the slow, intermittent, internet connections I could get, and it was confirmed by my girlfriend in Chicago.
by false cognate on Sep 14, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had tickets too (in Houston)
I had planned a road trip to Houston to visit my college roommate that now attends Rice. I ended up staying in San Antonio and missed the entire storm.
Guy at bar: "Do you just like that hat or do you like Chicago?"
Me: "I'm in Love, Obsessed and Addicted to the Chicago Cubs!"
by KC in OK on Sep 14, 2009 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Dick Van Dyck
I always liked him in Mary Poppins and his own sit com and I think he is right on here. Now, the post season is a different animal and what happened in the regular season counts nada but does anyone here believe the Cubs deserve (better yet should) be in the playoffs? They played well against some bad teams and poorly against better teams (better = greater than 500). If they would miraculously make the playoffs and win then no one would remember the regular season but this style of play (right now) is not good enough. They deserve to be home this October (I still hope they aren’t).
by Krug on Sep 14, 2009 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If they can pull something off and get there, they will deserve it!
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 14, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now
the team’s obligation is to prepare for the 2010 season. The odds of making the playoffs are 199-1. It seems we should take a look at Blanco at SS. Granted that it would be a slap at Theriot, but team comes before players. More Soto at C since he seems to have turned it around. More down time for ARam to let him heal for next year. If Baker can play 3B, that’s one fewer hole that must be filled off season.
If Harden goes, can Marshall or Gorz take the 5th slot? Rather than playing as if we have a shot, let’s be pragmatic and look towards the future.
If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.
by tharr on Sep 14, 2009 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying we should just give up?
Last time I checked no one clinched yet. Sure the odds might only be 199-1. I’d still rather they at least tried. There will be plenty of time to prepare for 2010.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 14, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what you will think on Sunday
When the Cards are celebrating the NL Central title against us. This season is O-V-E-R, over, or OVAH! if you enjoy Hawk Harrelson.
the time to prepare for 2010 is now, especially in the case of Soto, Fox, and Blanco.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
by nji232 on Sep 14, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?
When and if that happens we can prepare then. A couple of days isn’t going to matter. I’d like to see them give it all they’ve got NOW.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 14, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GOTTA AGREE....
Now is the time for Cubs brass to start planning for 2010 . We don’t want to hear " Baseball is a funny game ." or " THey played better than us ." or " I don’t know what to do ." Lets hope that the manager ( who ever it may be ) is up to this task . From now to Mesa this club has to start planning .
by cubs north on Sep 15, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caption:
Where did you get those nachos???? I want some!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 14, 2009 5:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gallardo to pitch for Brewers instead of Suppan
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Sep 14, 2009 6:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Can we get the 2008 Chicago Cubs to bat instead of the 2009 Chicago Cubs?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 14, 2009 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, according to message board @ Wrigley
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Sep 14, 2009 6:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Disregard - Suppan is warming up
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al on Sep 14, 2009 6:39 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Caption:
Dusty wanted to see my Ron Artest impersonation
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Sep 14, 2009 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineup:
Theriot, SS
Fukudome, RF
Lee, 1B
Ramirez, 3B
Soto, C
Fox, LF
Baker, 2B
Fuld, CF
Dempster, P
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 14, 2009 6:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is Fox playing? That's weird.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 14, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the Yin/Yang of Lou
he puts Fox in the lineup but bats Theriot in leadoff. no one is perfect.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
by LAcarl519 on Sep 14, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why some reporters shouldn't represent the media in general...
I read a comment on the yahoo Cubs page from Lou on what appeared to be an answer to a question ABOUT SORIANO HITTING LEADOFF!!! What the ffffff…!? Nice question pal. Did you get that Journalism degree awww by yer wittle sellllf? Awwww.
"What the hell, let's review it." - Dale Tallon
"They are!" - Pat Foley
"What a farce." - Dale Tallon
by HawkVision on Sep 14, 2009 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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