At Least They Can't Clinch This Weekend: Cubs vs. Cardinals, Friday 9/18, 7:15 CT
The Cardinals' magic number to clinch the NL Central is 8. (It's the lowest of any of the magic numbers, division or wild card, right now.) Even if they sweep the Cubs, they won't get to celebrate this weekend. Small consolation, I know.
If the Cubs can rise to the occasion and sweep the Cardinals, it may not make any difference in the final standings, but it's always nice to beat your biggest rival, and that would also even up the season series. So there's definitely something to shoot for in a series that, several months ago, looked to mean a lot more than it does right now.
It's been suggested that So Taguchi wouldn't get a good reception returning to St. Louis. I beg to differ. When Jim Edmonds made his first appearance in St. Louis last year in a Cub uniform, he got a standing ovation. Taguchi, who was a good contributor as a bench player to two Cardinals World Series teams (and another WS winner last year in Philadelphia), would probably get warmly welcomed. He's not part of the Cubs' future, obviously, but maybe he can give the slumping Kosuke Fukudome a break by playing one of these games in CF.
Here's a different take on Milton Bradley -- this one from Athletics Nation, where they discuss the deal made by the A's after the 2005 season, where they sent Andre Ethier to the Dodgers for Bradley. It's food for thought. I'd like to see the Cubs deal Bradley and maybe, just maybe, if their scouting is good enough, they can steal someone like Ethier from another team. Pipedream? Maybe. But worth discussing.
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Note: Smoltz's stats below are with the Cardinals only. See the pitcher box above for his full-season stats.
It's really impossible to tell what John Smoltz will do against the Cubs tonight. He has started four times for St. Louis -- two really good ones and two average starts. He is 15-5 in 39 career appearances (29 starts) vs. the Cubs, but most of that was in his prime with the Braves. His last two starts for Atlanta vs. the Cubs were in 2006, and he got pounded twice by that really bad Cubs team. Aramis Ramirez is 4-for-12 with a pair of homers off Smoltz and Derrek Lee has also homered off him. Incidentally, that's not a typo above -- he really does have only one walk for St. Louis in 22 innings.
Ted Lilly is 1-1, 2.40 vs. the Cardinals this year, losing on May 19 despite pitching well, in that series where the Cubs refused to score, and holding them to one run and four hits on July 11 in a 5-2 Cubs win. Current Cardinals are hitting .200 (44-for-220) off Ted. Lifetime he's 7-3, 2.89 in 13 starts vs. St. Louis.
Today's game is cable-only, on CSN Chicago and FSN Midwest. For other games today see the MLB.com Mediacenter.
Baseball-reference.com game preview
Please visit our SB Nation Cardinals site Viva el Birdos.
Once again, just two overflow threads today -- 8:15 pm and 9:30 pm CDT. If there's a need for another one, please post as a FanShot.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Scary Smoltz pic!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
You want scary? How about one with his jersey off?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That's really you without your weiner suit on isn't it, ballhawk?
(I peeked at your old blog site)
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
ah yes... me and the hotdog guy go way back
I get the home run balls but he gets the tips – and some days, those tips are pretty significant, thanks to the drunk bleacher and rooftop fans.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Let's Go Cubbies. Only so many games left in the season
Let’s win as many as possible before a long cold winter.
Albert Pujols for Cubs Starting 1B in 2012
I was hoping to see a Bradley free post...sigh.
Maybe we can all give it a rest until after this miserable season ends. (you too Al)
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
The Athletics
gave up Ethier to get Bradley. A year later they got a minor league pitcher for him from the Padres, and the A’s had to throw in some cash. (That was after the A’s DFA’d Bradley). Then, a year later, the Padres let him walk as a FA. A year later, the Rangers did the same. Contrary to what others have said, the Rangers made no real attempt to keep Bradley, the offered him arbitration only to get the compensatory draft pick.
And interestingly, the Rangers improved their W-L record greatly this year, without Milton.
That's likely not cause and effect.
I’ll give the credit for the Rangers resurgence this year to Mike Maddux, who has done an outstanding job with that pitching staff.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
IMO Nolan Ryan
should be MLB Executive of the Year. The leadership & philosophy he’s brought to the Rangers this year has been night-‘n-day. Hon Mention to Maddux & the rest of the staff who embraced Ryan’s old-school approach to the game.
I'm a Baseball fan first, Cards fan 2nd.
by Cardsfansince62 on Sep 18, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to be a jerk, sorry.
Maddux and the Rangers’ pitchers can’t be Honorable Mentions for Executive of the Year.
No doubt
Maddux has made a huge difference.
I was just pointing out that the Rangers apparently knew what they were doing when they let Bradley walk.
That is also the problem I have with Adam Dunn. Despite all the gaudy numbers he puts up, the guy has never played on a winning ball club. After seeing him during his brief stint in Phoenix last year, I think I know why.
It’s the same reason why the D’Backs made no attempt to re-sign Dunn, even though he said he would’ve liked to stay.
So why hasn't Dunn played on a winning ball club?
Well, technically, the D-Backs were a winning team that year, and Dunn hit pretty well for them. I’m not familiar with what you saw from him in AZ.
I always figured the reason he’d never played on a winning ballclub (other than Arizona) is that he was stuck with the Reds for the first 8 years of his career, and the Reds were never able to put much of a lineup together. And then he signed with the Nationals, who have no pitching.
Dunn is never going to be as good as some of his hitting numbers, because he’s really, really bad at defense. That doesn’t make him a bad person, just a limited baseball player. I haven’t heard anything bad about the guy beyond that.
The didn't win when he was with them
They had a miserable September and lost a nice lead after they acquired Dunn.
Not only does Dunn play bad defense, but he is just physically or psychologically incapable of doing the little things that are necessary to win. The kinds of things that DLee and ARam do almost every game.
Dunn drove me nuts. He could hit the ball out of the park when it meant almost nothing, but he couldn’t catch a low throw at first (a couple of times he dropped a ball that hit him right in the glove), he can’t move a runner, he can’t catch a ball in the outfield unless it is hit right to him, and sometimes not even then. He misses signs, he loses focus. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
And was it Dunn's fault that they didn't win?
I recall the whole team being in fade mode at that point after their hot start. Dunn, as I said, did what they brought him in to do: hit.
Dunn’s defense is bad, really bad. It’s bad in ways that advanced defensive stats measure, and they say he’s amazingly bad. It’s bad in ways that no existing defensive stat measures (cutting off balls in the gap, playing balls off the wall, getting to foul balls, inspiring confidence in his fellow infielders), and I acknowledge this. If you establish a baseline UZR for Dunn that represents his true talent at all the things it measures, you should then keep deducting beyond that to find his defensive value. He gets on base a lot but runs the bases poorly and usually does so in front of the bottom of the order. That’s why I said, “Dunn is never going to be as good as some of his hitting numbers.” He’s limited. There are lots of better players than him.
Most of the time, believe it or not, it’s not a good idea, tactically, for Dunn to try to move runners over at the expense of his ability to hit the ball hard. It’s not just Dunn, this applies to most hitters. For those occasions when it is a good idea, you might consider pinch-hitting for him; most of these situations will come late in close games when lifting him for a defensive replacement might be wise anyway, considering how incredibly bad he is at defense.
A lot of people think of Adam Dunn as a superstar that doesn’t play the game right. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it. He’s like a good defensive infielder that can’t hit much, but inverted — and probably somewhat more valuable than that infielder. He’s good at hitting the ball hard, and he’s worked out an approach at the plate that gets him pitches to hit hard. He’s overrated by a lot of people, and running him out in left field every day for a season might not be the best way to utilize his talents. The Washington Nationals almost certainly overpay him to do just that, and if he only plays for teams that use him that way for the rest of his career he may never play for a winning team because (a) when you overpay and overvalue one guy it limits what you can do with the rest of your team and (b) a team that thinks Dunn is worth superstar money and a LF starting job is probably going to make other mistakes in talent evaluation as well. None of this makes him “not a winner”. If the market for Dunn rationalizes, and he winds up with an AL team, mostly DHing and making less money, he could very well play for a winner.
I didn't say
it was Dunn’s fault they didn’t win. It is entirerly true that the D’Backs were struggling when they went out and got Dunn. And his acquisition was just like throwing gasoline on the fire. There were several games down the stretch last year where Dunn’s mistakes directly led to losses. And they only lost the division by two games.
Your evaluation of Dunn is largely true, but it misses a lot of the total picture. As I have explained, it isn’t just Dunn’s defense that is the problem, it is his whole game. His inability to move a runner. Throwing to the wrong base. Getting picked off.
I watched this guy with great interest last year as the thinking was he could do for the D’Backs what Manny did for the Dodgers, and in the same way. Nope. I did a little celebratory jig when the D’Backs decided not to bring him back.
The point is that even given Dunn's flaws he's still valuable.
But he’s not Manny. He can’t do what Manny did for the Dodgers because he’s not as good. Manny is prone to mistakes and lack of concentration himself. He’s hardly a wizard in the outfield, but he is better than Dunn, faster and more athletic. And he’s an amazing hitter, one of the best of his generation. Expecting Dunn to be Manny is irrational. If you expect that you’ll always be disappointed.
Dunn’s inability to move a runner is no different than Andres Blanco’s inability to hit for power. If he comes up and you really need someone to do that (now, usually, moving over runners is less important than avoiding outs and hitting the ball hard, but sometimes the opposite is true) then pinch hit. If you can’t stand having to cover for this flaw in his game then don’t sign him.
Dunn is only valuable
if he is on your fantasy team. If you need him to help you win a pennant, not so much.
I am not comparing Manny to Dunn in terms of overall offensive stats, I am comparing them in terms of situational hitting. Manny will give you a clean single to start off an inning. He’ll get you a SF when you really need one. If he comes up with men on first and second with nobody out in a low scoring game, he’ll find a way to move the runners. He does this consistently. Like clockwork. For whatever reason, Dunn has never developed this skill set and it is safe to say now that he never will.
You know, Dunn took the Nationals offer last off season out of sheer desperation. He had literally no other significant offers. That should tell you something.
I don't play fantasy baseball so I don't know how it works.
I do know that in real baseball the runs that score when Dunn hits it out of the park are valuable things. And a team that uses him the right way can maximize the positive value and minimize the negative.
It’s a good thing that nobody else offered Dunn what the Nationals did. He’s not worth it. He’s probably not a good person to hand a starting job to on an NL team. He is probably worth a much smaller contract to DH in the AL. That’s what I mean by valuable, that he has value, that he could be of use to a winning baseball team.
I’m not comparing Manny to Dunn in terms of overall stats either. I’m comparing their talent. Manny is a truly great hitter, with contact- and power-hitting skills and a good eye. Dunn does not have contact-hitting skills. He has power and discipline. Dunn has forged his approach around his strengths and limitations. Manny, surely, has also designed his approach to minimize his weaknesses, and come out far ahead.
Now, if it’s true what you say about Manny’s situational hitting, there is a way to measure that. If you compare a player’s linear-weighted runs above average (wRAA) to base-and-out-state runs (RE24), a master of situational hitting should have significantly more of the latter. It would take a long time to stabilize, but Manny has had a long career. On Fangraphs Manny has 696.9 runs by wRAA and 672.35 by RE24. Manny actually has more runs by linear weights. Another way that a player might have great situational hitting is by contributing to important runs disproportionately, compared to unimportant ones. This can be measured, too: comparing RE24 on a win scale to WPA. Again, I’d expect this to take a long to stabilize, but Manny has played a long time. In this case, his WPA of 54.26 is far below his REW of 63.93. The record does not support the proposition that Manny is a great situational hitter.
It’s important to look at the aggregate record. Manny does not succeed every time at the plate. He succeeds in important situations at a higher rate than most players. But he does so for the same reason that he succeeds in unimportant ones: he’s just a flat-out great hitter.
An outfield of Dunn and Soriano...
… would have made me feel bad for Dome. He’d be one busy dude.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 18, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW
the Adam Dunn Factor is why you simply cannot rely on stats alone. I saw an interview with Josh Byrnes, GM of the D’Backs recently and he made this point. Byrnes is known as one of the Sabremetrics guys, but he said you have to use the metrics along with visual evaluation.
I’m not saying Dunn won’t get you a big hit from time to time. He is a force at the plate and there is no doubt of that. But, in between those big hits he will do a half dozen things that will hurt your chances to win.
If you had a team full of players who did the little things the way Adam Dunn does, you would finish last in the league 10 times out of 10.
and where would you finish if you had a team full of David Ecksteins? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
you would be neck-in-neck with the team of Oompa-loompas
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Well okay
point taken.
But, it’s no accident that DE has two rings and AD hasn’t sniffed the playoffs yet.
That's where you're... mostly wrong.
There is one very limited way in which Eckstein’s two rings are not an accident: the teams Eckstein has played for have known his limitations. They haven’t paid him and used him like a superstar when he isn’t one. This is, in fact, very limited. He happened to catch on with the Angels and Cardinals, two good teams. He’s sure not winning any rings with the Padres this year, because the Padres aren’t very good. Neither Eck nor Dunn could pull this year’s Padres to the playoffs — vintage Bonds couldn’t.
Eckstein and Dunn are each very limited, but in very different ways. Each has been able to stick around MLB for a while because he’s adjusted his playing style to match his talents. That is all.
I have no idea what you are talking about
neither Dunn nor Eckstein nor Albert Pujols has the ability to make a bad team good. I never said that.
But, if you have a good team that is in a pennant race or in the playoffs, David Eckstein can do things to help you win a tight ball game. Adam Dunn, for the most part won’t, at least not as frequently as he will do something to help you lose a tight ball game.
I’ve seen Eckstein win a game by successfully executing a suicide squeeze bunt, stealing a base at a key moment, or hitting the ball to the right side to move a runner into scoring position.
Meanwhile, Dunn will be dropping a fly ball, overthrowing the cutoff man or getting thrown out at second with nobody out. Two different ball players and one has the rings and the other doesn’t.
neither Dunn nor Eckstein nor Albert Pujols has the ability to make a bad team good. I never said that.
you underestimate the powers of Lord Pujols
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
pujols was too busy curing cancer to save the 2007 cardinals
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
There is a bias in your thinking.
You’re willing to attribute the entire win to a little thing done by Eck and an entire loss to a mistake made by Dunn. That’s an incomplete picture of what happens in a baseball game, and over the course of the season. In 2006, year of the Cardinals’ wacky WS win, Eck’s record on stolen bases was Theriot-esque.
The things that decide close games are the same things that turn close games to blowouts, and vice versa: runs. You win because you score more than the other team. There are lots of ways to score runs and to give them up. Dunn contributes to the outcome in ways that you’re ignoring… which is odd, because of how those contributions are so frequently overvalued by fans and GMs.
Please
I don’t need a lecture from you on how baseball games are won and lost.
In 2006, Eckstein was the WS MVP. I’m sure they must have miscounted the votes. He also was a big contributor to the Angels in 2002.
There are a zillions things that can lead to a win. I watched a game last night where the ump missing a ball and strike call making the count 2-1 instead of 1-2 clearly changed the game. It can happen.
But, when you have a larger sample size and watch someone like Ramirez or Eckstein over many years do things to help their ballclub win, and watch Dunn do the opposite, then there is no doubt what you are seeing.
You're using the wrong tool.
The human mind, alone, is not very good at drawing conclusions from large sets of observations spread out over a long time. Given a pencil and paper it’s a lot better. That way it can keep count. My point with Eckstein’s stolen bases is that some years (2002 and 2006 among them) Eckstein probably hurt his team, on balance, by trying to steal bases. Yes, some of his steals contributed to wins. Other times he got caught and contributed to losses. And we won’t figure this out if we don’t keep count.
I’m sure Eck deserved the 2006 WS MVP (I didn’t see much of that WS, so it’s hard for me to say). He certainly hit well in the series, by the numbers, and it’s a lot easier for people to draw conclusions from small sets of observations, like one World Series. The votes weren’t counted wrong at all. It is wrong to say that one guy is a Real Winner because he performed well in a 5-game series and another is a Big Loser because he’s never had the chance.
Ramirez, Eckstein, and Dunn all have contributed positively and negatively thousands times to their teams over the years, all in different ways. The mind can’t rationally process all that and is subject to lots of biases. When you’re watching a team collapse like the last year’s Diamondbacks the good contributions of players are diminished when ultimately they’re not enough to yield a victory. Who remembers the go-ahead run in the 8th when the closer blows the save? A rising tide lifts (or capsizes) all boats.
And I really don't think we're too far apart on this.
I don’t think Dunn is all that good, I didn’t want the Cubs to sign him last year, and I don’t think they should in the near future. I just don’t think he’s destined to always lose (unless, of course, he’s consistently signed by idiots that think he’s a superstar).
Well, I'm pretty sure
if the Cubs had signed Dunn instead of Bradley, as Al and some others were campaigning for, the Cubs would be in much the same position relative to the Cardinals that they are now. That’s conjecture on my part, using my flawed human mind, but there you have it.
Now, Bobby Abreau, that is a different story. I have watched the Angels a lot this year and Abreau has been a big contributor to their success. I think if the Cubs had signed Abreau, the Cubbie fans would be raving about him.
And interestingly, the Rangers improved their W-L record greatly this year, without Milton.
having a decent pitching staff does that
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
and a good coach
Obviously there have personal changes on both teams but worth noting that the Brewers team ERA has soared one full
run from last year while the Rangers have dropped one full run from last year. Hmm I wonder what those stats have in common ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 18, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
with the Brewers losing Sheets, Torres, C.C. and Shouse, 4 of their top ERA guys from last year, it is likely their ERA would have gone up close to a run even if Maddux had stayed.
don't doubt the (big bro) doggie effect!
manny parra’s era would be 6 runs lower under his guidance!!!
by doofus cubs guy on Sep 18, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Well if you want to compare more directly
Brewers have 3 starters from last year, Looper is doing about the same but Bush and Parra have tanked and their
ERA’s have each gone up over a point.
Rangers have only two starters from last year , Millwood & Feldman both have improved DRAMATICALLY dropping their
ERA’s by over a point each. ( Padilla was doing roughly the same before being dumped)
Maddux and Ryan have been following what is in fact I think a Maddux family mantra of not giving a rats ass about pitch counts and preaching the " pitch to contact" philosophy. Mike may never have been the pitcher Greg was but I think he has as much baseball smarts. I can only hope one day big brother decides to put his brain to use as coach or manager.
As I noted once before I think they should be a team like Powell & Pressburger ( that is for you John) or the Coen brothers and just manage and coach together. They can alternate trips to the mound.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 18, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
There is no way to know for sure
that Feldman, who is only 26, wouldn’t have had a breakout year anyway, or that Millwood, who has been good before, wouldn’t have a bounce back year this year anyway.
Furthermore, several of Maddux’s Milwaukee staffs finished near the bottom of the NL. They were 25th in ERA in 2006 and one other year. Or did he just suddenly get smart this year? Gotta look at body of work.
And your argument re Padilla doesn’t hold water. Maddux lobbied to get rid of him and they finally did.
What argument about Padilla ?
I did argue anything about him but now that you mention it I think dumping him was right in line with the Ryan /Maddux goals. I kind of give up otherwise though. You love stats, I gave you stats only to have you tell me they don’t really matter it all would have happened the same anyway. I take the stats of the starters from the last two years ( and changing the way starting pitchers are taught and coached is at the heart of what the Rangers are doing) from both teams and you tell me that the middle relief guys are the right comparison.
Ok off for now. Hey you have a JOB so you should be spending less time here.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 18, 2009 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm off this week
I thought you said Padilla had roughly the same improvement as Feldman and Millwood. I just read it again and I may have misunderstood.
And I didn’t say that it would have happened anyway. What I said is that you have no way of knowing that it woudn’t. That is why you have to look at body of work. Milwood has been good before. But, he has been unable to sustain it. Now, if he puts three really good years together under Maddux, then that would indicate that Maddux was responsible.
But, that is the danger of the pitch counts be damned approach. It might work for a year, but unlikely to be good long term. Teams didn’t start instituting pitch counts because they like limiting their best pitchers, it was because they got tired of those pitchers having arm injuries.
It’s great when you are Gregg Maddux and can throw all day long with no arm problems, or when you are a freak of nature like Nolan Ryan. But, for everyone else, it is a given.
There is nothing in Mike Maddux’s background that suggests he is a miracle worker. Not in the Duncan class, anyway.
And BTW, the Rangesr dumped Padilla for one reason only, and it has nothing to do with his production. It was because he is a head case. Same reason they dumped Bradley.
Bush, Parra, and pitching to contact
Bush was lucky last year. His FIP has barely changed, but his BABIP is more normal. He is giving up more fly balls than last year, but he’s not pitching to any less contact. He’s always been a contact pitcher and for the most part contact pitchers that give up as many fly balls as he does get killed by homers. This was actually true last year, too, but he was getting so lucky on hit prevention that it didn’t matter as much.
Parra… he’s getting killed on BABIP this year. He’s also walking more batters, but striking out fewer, too. That sounds more like loss of stuff or control than a change in philosophy.
Pitching to contact is great if you get ground balls. Or if you happen to be one of a handful of pitchers with sustainably low HR/FB rates.
I’m also not sure Greg Maddux would be a great coach or manager. He doesn’t seem like much of a people person. The key to his success as a player, as much as baseball intelligence, was execution. He was able to execute his pitches precisely better than almost anyone else. Guys that can locate their fastball look like geniuses.
I'll fill in for Doggie Stalker on this one
“I’m also not sure Greg Maddux would be a great coach or manager. He doesn’t seem like much of a people person.”
Just ask the players who were teammates of GM’s if they agree with this. I have heard too many players say they learned more about baseball from Maddux than from any other teammate or coach they’ve had in their careers.
And this includes guys that only played with Maddux for a month or two.
He would be a great coach, no doubt about it. Whether he would want to manage or not would be a question, because so much of that is PR and other non baseball stuff.
Thanks for taking care of this
I might have used another 10 paragraphs to make the same point and included about 20 articles on the subject.
He has said he would like to be a bench coach but I think if he wanted to he would have no problem dealing with
the non baseball stuff. He had the press eating out of his hand and perfected the art of being polite while saying nothing of interest. He understood when he played that while he did not care for it , dealing with the press was part of the job.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 18, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
From all accounts
Maddux was a hell of a guy, and an incredibly smart guy too. I have no idea where aldimond is getting that idea that he’s not a people person.
www.facebook.com/craighudak
by Craig in South Bend on Sep 18, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know a lot...
… all I know is that more often than not he seemed kind of aloof with the press. I’m not in the clubhouse, so I don’t know much about that… he’s never seemed like a person that wanted to be in the spotlight. That’s hard to quantify, and I might be wrong.
By the time he was in the majors and dealing with the media he was basically always successful. It’s fairly easy to have the media eating out of your hands when you’re successful, and have the reputation of being a great pitcher. Even when Maddux was deep into his decline, what sportswriter would dare grill him? He was more popular than they were. As a manager, well, everyone hates you. I’m not saying that he couldn’t do it. I just think there’s a good chance that he wouldn’t want to manage and have to be in the spotlight all the time.
I could easily see him becoming a fixture in a coaching role… I could also see him struggling with it. I honestly don’t know. My understanding is that most of the players that learned a lot from Maddux were guys that actively sought him out, and he might have a harder time with the more institutional role of being a proper coach to the whole team. Or he could knock it out of the park.
I'd love to help you on this
but when it comes to subtle nuances of Maddux’s personality, we’ll have to call on Doggie Stalker. When I have seen Maddux in a press conference situation, he has always been polite, if a little aloof. At times, he has a kind of smirk on his face that seems to indicate he thinks the questions he is being asked are rather stupid. But, that could just be a facial tick.
Jessica forwarded to me an interview that GM did around the time the Braves honored him earlier this year, while their was nothing especially new, I was impressed with how open and responsive he was. Other times he has seemed guarded and evasive in interviews. But, I wonder if that is just because he is not actively a player anymore and maybe he would be awesome in dealing with the press as a manager, as long as nobody refers to him as a “baseball savant”, which I know drives him nuts.
Also
3 of the Rangers top ERA guys this year, O’Day, Crill and Jason Johnson were either not on the team or were hurt last year. Scott Feldman has definitely had a break out year, and Millwood has regained previous form.
Due to Maddux? Perhaps, but I doubt it can all be attributed to him. It’s not like his Brewers staffs consistently were at the top of the NL while he was there.
Crill, O'Day & Johnson
are perfectly ok middle relief guys ( Johnson of course is the emergency long reliever) but not really the point of what
the Rangers have been working on which is pinch counts and starters. I think the dramatic turn around in Millwood and Feldman speaks for itself as does the horrific years of Bush & Parra. I am aware Mike Maddux is no magician but he and Ryan are finally trying to reverse years of over emphasizing pitch counts and returning to sort of old school baseball and
it has worked.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 18, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
If we knew the guy on the other end would turn out to be Ethier...
… then, absolutely, trade Bradley for him. But, of course, nobody knows that. If we did that prospect would never be shopped. When you trade for prospects you take on that risk and the likelihood of making your team worse in the short-term. Even though Bradley hasn’t had a good year, I think that swapping him straight-up for a good AA prospect would probably make the 2010 Cubs worse. And these days Bradley’s trade value is probably not as high as it was entering 2006; the Cubs probably couldn’t get a prospect of Ethier’s caliber for him (the Dodgers gave up Bradley and some other MLer — Ethier was well thought-of by the As as well).
The Cubs have to go for it in the next few years because of the contracts they have; the best hope for that is probably a Bradley and Soriano turnaround and tweaks to the middle infield and bench. Just my opinion.
If we knew the guy on the other end would turn out to be Ethier…
i would necessarily say people didnt know that. his 2005 numbers in the a’s system seem pretty close to what he has done with the dodgers. granted thats only 1 year
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Lots of guys hit well in AA and never figure out MLB.
That’s the risk. Trade for a guy with Ethier’s AA numbers and you might get Ethier, or you might get Corey Patterson (actually Patterson did not perform as well as Ethier in AA, but he a few years younger; certainly lots of people thought he’d wind up a major-league star).
good point
ive never been a minor league aficionado, so anything i say about minor leaguers probably isnt correct
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus,
didn’t we trade DeRo for some pitching prospects? While long term that may turn out to be good, but it really hurts us short term.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
And we'd be trading Bradley from a much weaker position than we traded DeRo
DeRo was coming off a career year, Bradley will be coming off one of his worst. I don’t think we could get all that much for Bradley.
I don’t think every time a team looking to compete now trades veterans for prospects it’s a bad idea. And if a deal came around for a good prospect that’s close to the majors at a position we needed it would be worth a look. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that for post-2009 Bradley. I think the ceiling and floor over Bradley’s remaining contract are more than anything we could get for him (if they weren’t no team would consider a trade), and I think the next few years really are our window (as long as Soriano rebounds).
Actually that's not entirely true
Either was thought of as a good contact guy with little power. There were serious doubts he would be a run producer at the major league level. Of course, that has turned out to be incorrect, but that was the thinking at the time.
One year ago today
was the infamous “Geo Game,” after which the Cubs’ Magic Number was 2.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard a more unbelievably sudden and exhilirating comeback, and I can’t imagine such a feat coming from this year’s team.
Sigh.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
I was there and it is one of my all time...
…favorites. Never forget that day since I wasnt even supposed to be there.
Its amazing how far they have fallen in almost every respect since then.
Muskat has a 2 question inbox today
Nothing of a meaning as usual. She is completely useless as far as getting info.
I usually can get a lineup here before she posts it and she’s works for the Cubs!
per gordo
No Milty today. What else they got: riot, fuky, lee, rami, hoff (rf), soto, baker, scales, lilly.
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
im still confused as to why scales keeps playing
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
every time i see theriot leading off and scales in LF
a small part of me dies
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Must be a VERY small part of you...
… and you must be very close to entirely dead.
Dibbs on your TV!
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 18, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
ill be back in 3 days after i go
so please dont break the TV
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
it works better than you think
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
My guess
He’s hanging them up after the season ends, and the team wants him to live it up while he can. If so, I say good.
If not… who knows.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
What tonights lineup should look like
Fukudome CF
Baker 2B
Lee 1B
Rami 3B
Fox LF
Soto C
Hoffpauir RF
Theriot SS
Lilly P
I would like to see what Hoff could do batting 2nd ahead of Lee and getting Decent pitches. But that would be stretching it.
Hoff has not demonstrated the ability to get on base.
Without that a hitter should not be hitting #2. Hoff is a power hitter. To be effective in the Major Leagues power hitters have to be able to hit in the positions where their power can most help the team.
If we weren't already toast for the season
that outfield defense would generate quite a lively discussion.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
Scales isn't much better in LF and has a 2b arm. Plus Soriano was terrible
So its not like Fox is a major dropoff. Now if he was replacing Fuld, I would agree with you…..
I know, but picture that lineup
being posted in May, and you might get where I’m coming from.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
HAFPAWAR 4 1B
SCALES SHOULD START AT 2B
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Watching "The Last Samurai" right now...
Great quote from Katsumoto (Ken Watanabe) which seems very apropos to this weekend’s series…
“It is not yet time to die”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Not trying to fan the flames, just reporting:
PWSullivan Milton killing it in b.p., but held out of lineup with ‘knee’ soreness. Hoffpauir in right.
Available to PH, then, I'm guessing
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Cardinals pregame show
Just got done not only showing the 10 greatest Cardinals walk-off victories over the Cubs in the TLR era, but also showed the Bartman play not once, not twice, but three times.
What a bunch of inferiority-complex-infested inbreds.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2009 6:53 PM CDT reply actions
how dare you speak about the greatest team in baseball
in the great baseball city in the world with the greatest player and manager in the world in the greatest stadium in the world with the greatest fries and grounds crew in the world like that
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot
The greatest beer vendors in the world.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
And don't forget the greatest fans
If Taguchi gets into the game tonight and receives a standing ovation, I’m going to vomit.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
maybe theyll give aaron miles a standing O too
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
"they paved paradise and put in a parking lot"
every time I hear that verse I think of St Louis!
because that place should be paved over—nothing redeeming about it, since everyone who lives there thinks it is paradise. good grief.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
St. Louis isn't a bad town
and a lot of their fans are good. I’ve enjoyed many a Cubs-Cards game at Busch.
But the sanctimoniousness of a lot of Cardinals fans drives me up a wall.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 18, 2009 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Tomorrow...
I’m going to my second Cubs-Cards game at Busch. Since I don’ t have to worry about them clinching while I am there, all I am worried about now is the 40% chance of rain.
if they do
im sure someone will come on here and say cub fans are disrespectful for not being nice to miles
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 18, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions

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