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Hendry scapegoats Bradley


Another perspective about Bradley's suspension from Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus.

Here are the main points:

Who the hell has ever been suspended for two weeks for what they said to the media? This is a severe and unwarranted overreaction, a cynical public-relations ploy designed to curry favor with fans and the media and distract both groups from a Cubs season that is ending with a whimper.

Star-divide

 [Bradley's] comments in the Herald weren't particularly new or enlightening, and they didn't attack any individual. They weren't profane or notably inflammatory. For this, he gets sent home for two weeks. By doing so, Hendry is blatantly pandering to the disgruntled fan base and the local media, as Carrie Muskat reported as far as Hendry's comments on the subject for MLB.com:

"I'm not going to let our great fans become an excuse, I'm not going to tolerate not answering questions from the media respectfully."
Really, now. This is why you've suspended one of your best players for two weeks, because it's mission-critical that your players respect the fans and treat the media well? That's nonsense, and the rush to back up Hendry and tear down Bradley is yet another example of the co-dependent relationship between baseball teams and the free media they rely upon.

Personally I think everything in the opinion piece is spot on.  Hendry overreacted in order to protect himself from the fan's backlash this winter.  Do I agree with what Bradley said?  No.  Was it an affront to Cubdome?  No. Was it a guy venting after a really crappy season on many different levels?  Yes.  But hey the Cubs fans want a pound of flesh from someone and Hendry was willing to serve up Bradley oh so quickly. 

The funny thing is this blog and it's strong personalities on this site have fallen for Hendry's cheap trick. 

That being said I still think Bradley needs to be off the team.  If Dempster is willing to pile on Bradley after he's forced out (which again is a little cynical because he to signed a big contract and played like crap this year) then it is clear the locker room wants him gone.  Bradley clearly has created a hostile work environment which cannot be overcome by his baseball talents.  For that reason Bradley must go.

But after Hendry threw Bradley under the bus, it is also clear to me that Hendry need to follow Bradley out the door.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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This is different

Milton had already had some run ins with the media and the team took the high road and did little about it. This is basically the straw that breaks the camel’s back. It would be different if someone like Derrek Lee acted like this and was suspsended.

To be honest, Bradley got what he deserved..

I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!

by Chanman25 on Sep 21, 2009 6:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

this over-blown reaction from Hendry

will have long-lasting impacts on significant free agents ever signing for the Cubs. Hendry was a player’s GM and now that all has changed.

This should have been dealt with internally and never blown up.

Milton is still an idiot for biting the hand that fed him.

by socalbob on Sep 21, 2009 6:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I dunno...

Bradley has played for a lot of teams and with a lot of guys. In short, he is a known quantity.

There could be a lot of players that don’t bat an eye over this one.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He still is a player's GM...

Everyone in baseball knows that Bradley is an exception. GMs, managers, and players around the league know his history and what kind of crap comes with him.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Sep 21, 2009 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my contention

is he just changed his perception.

No player in the history of baseball has been suspended for what Milton said in a fishwrap.

by socalbob on Sep 21, 2009 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

But my contention is that rational people will realize that it was a series of incidents with fans, the media, coaches and possibly teammates that caused this suspension. Wouldn’t the confrontation with Von Joshua and refusing to PH be reason enough for a suspension? Not to mention the inflammatory comments.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Sep 21, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to be fair

Bradley has stated many times he is injured. And Joshua got in his face, so Joshua should be accountable for instigating this situation. There should be no suspension at all. Fine him and fine him HUGE—this is something that all players understand very well—their bank account.

When it comes to free agency and players coming to certain teams, there is nothing rational. It is emotion based. Is the money good? Can my family live there and be happy? Can I play well there? Is it a good park? Is the team any good? ETC. These are all emotional elemnts of the decision-making.

Hendry just changed his perception from being a walk-over player’s guy to a hard-ass GM. He suspended a guy for stating the truth in a newspaper. Again, this has never been done in the history of the game. The only near suspension for this long was Albert Belle who threw a ball at a fan.

I think we, as Cubdom, will have a rude awakening as to what players we can attract to come play at Wrigley.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you have it backwards.

Bradley, apparently, originally offered to PH on Saturday. Then, when asked, he refused, which is when Joshua supposedly got “in his face”.

I think it’s clear who “instigated” this situation.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 22, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if that's true

then ok, I understand. I didn’t read that article. Do you have a link?

Still doesn’t warrant a suspension. HUGE FINE, yes. Suspension, no.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This one incident alone, maybe not.

But this is a culmination of a year’s worth of problems, many of which we may not have heard about.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 22, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not " a years"

but rather “many years” worth of problems. Im sure players in MLB are not looking at the cubs or JH and thinking they dont want to play here, rather they are probably thinking if MB is released, i hope my Gm doesnt pick him up.
In defense of JH, MB was pretty well behaved last year in texas and had a great year. it was a risk yes, but sometimes you have to take risks to succeed, and they dont always work.

by imacubman on Sep 22, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First sign if fans have stepped away from Cubdom

Is Cubs Convention. If they don’t sell out tickets then there ya go. You can’t blame economy either because they sold out quickly the last two years…

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not a good measure

It will easily sell out. Maybe it will take 4 hours instead of 3. It is not that expensive and not that many tickets available.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 21, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tons of tickets available

What is it like 10 or 15 thousand?

Plus hotels rooms can be expensive and people fly in from all over the US. I know I did twice. Add in paying for photos, grab bags, lockeroom merchandise and you got an expensive weekend.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

God.

This shit is SOOOOOOOOO boring. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be Milton Bradley and have all this “drama” around him all the time; it’s boring and tired just reading it on BCB every damn day. As I said last night:

Milton Bradley started his season suspended (first few weeks).

Milton Bradley ended his season suspended (last few weeks).

Go away, Milton. And I hope the door hits you in the ass, knee, or whatever part of your body ails you the most.

Dan

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Sep 21, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What I think is being missed

is that this sort of thing is not uncommon, but the results are usually exile, either trade or release. Those aren’t really options here, so instead he gets house arrest.
And it’s hard to put a guy who is playing reasonable well on the bench without some sort of explanation, so instead of just sitting him there under a black cloud, they’re sending him home. He’s still a distraction, but at least it’s from a distance.

It never gets to be easy

by chitownhawkeye on Sep 21, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, Joe Sheehan said.

Okay, then I guess I’m just a sucker.

Sorry, Joe, for disappointing you, whoever the hell you are.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Sep 21, 2009 7:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

BAM!

Someone else said it earlier — you have to go by the 80-20 rule. We know 20 percent of what really happened.

But Sheehan is too busy screaming, “Ma! The MEATLOAF!” to appreciate such niceties of human behavior.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't

I think they’ve been spraying Febreze on his crap all season, covering up, apologizing, downplaying and smoothing things over.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see

So Bradley was such a cancer that he deserved a suspension? I can think of at least a few players who have said worse things this year than Bradley and nobody has batted an eye.

by vivaelpujols on Sep 21, 2009 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name them

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quotes and links

This is your argument, not mine. i shouldn’t have to work for your argument.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks to me like the GM really took off on him

And I don’t see where Braun has done anything since.

Bradley has already acted up all season and apparently didn’t change.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 21, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When has Bradley acted up before his recent comments?

He got into a fight with Lou (who hasn’t?) and he threw a ball into the stands.

by vivaelpujols on Sep 21, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou has been...

…relatively calm during his tenure in Chicago. When he blew up at Bradley, Hendry should have taken notice and took control of the situation at that time. He didn’t, because he hoped things would get better and his signing would pan out. In the end, Lou was 3 months ahead of Hendry in calling out Bradley back in June.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 21, 2009 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou Fighting.?

I thought Lou was asleep most of the time, something must happened pretty serious to wake him up, heck a baseball game sure doesn’t.

The sun will shine in '69

by gaclaudy on Sep 22, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As much as I dislike Ryan Braun,

I would love to have him in our outfield instead of Bradley, and calling out our starting pitchers.

That would be a nice problem to have.

"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa

by Goodie1969 on Sep 21, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The quip on the rotation was taken out of context and blown up...

He went after his whole team that day… a tactic some clubhouse leaders use to wake up their teams.

I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all.

by Dou on Sep 22, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No disrespect....

..But as a Cub fan, I don’t give a shit what Braun or Uggla said or did. They’re the problem of their respective teams. Moreover, neither (so far) has the disruptive history from team to team to team to team to team to team to team that Bradley does. Hendry, if anything, waited to long to finally bitch slap Bradley.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Sep 22, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This was just the last straw...

There is so much more to this that goes all the way back to spring training.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Sep 21, 2009 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

In fact, he’s been underreacting all season. It’s about damn time.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Sep 21, 2009 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Hendry overreacted, although I personally could have

done without the whole “our great fans” part. I think this could have been done at several points during the season, either by Hendry or Piniella, and it wouldn’t have been overreacting.

I also think some people believe that a team full of Ted Bundy’s could win if their OBP was good enough.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Sep 21, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is...

…Hendry didn’t handle this early on, so he had to save face by doing what he did.

I fully agree that Bradley is a POS (just like Lou said), but Hendry should have jumped in on this a while ago.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 21, 2009 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over-under on how many are dumb/clueless enough to call you racist: 3

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 21, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice jab.

Racism does not exist, racism does not exist, racism does not exist…

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 21, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never claimed it didn't exist.

But everyone who criticized Milton Bradley at all on this site has been immediately labelled a racist for weeks now.

Not only is that vile and hateful, it detracts from the problem that racism does actually exist.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 21, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't want to argue with you Shanghai...

because I know that you’re a reasonable and logical poster, but I do think it trivializes a possible issue when you preface every comment with “Someone will call you/me a racist by criticizing Bradley”.

The only reason I think racism is relevant in this discussion is the potential stereotype that it could create. Are Bradley’s issues all related to the one instance where he called out a few racist fans? Of course not. His actions are not justifiable based on that one defense.

But I am wary of the stereotype that might loom if we continue to have players call out fans for this offense. Torii Hunter is already on record as being hesitant to play in Chicago. Jacque Jones, Dusty Baker, Milton Bradley, Latroy Hawkins…the list continues to build. And Derrek Lee went on record this year as acknowledging the racism present at Wrigley Field.

I’d hate to see the stereotype created that states that Cub fans are racist. I’d hate to see it hurt our chances down the road of signing an impact player. It’d be one thing if a crazed MB was the first to mention this, but evidence is mounting against a few idiotic Cub fans.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to attack you with sarcasm but this is something we can sweep under the rug so easily.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 22, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

last sentence...

this is NOT something…

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 22, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

as I have written the same thing. You could add Corey Patterson to the list as well.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough. No offense taken.

I’m probably lashing out over things that happened weeks ago and need to get the hell over it.

I agree with you that I don’t like that growing reputation. I’ve never understood how anyone can think like that in the first place, really. I’d love to get into someone’s head who believes what a person looks like has anything to do with their value as a person to see how that makes sense to them.

There are some here who are still taking it to a ridiculous extreme when anyone criticizes MB, but I don’t need to bait them. Point taken.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

It does get out of hand at times.

But, as I said, this could develop into a larger issue for the organization moving forward.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 22, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone who participates in such behavior should be ejected and banned from the park.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

and not just WF, but all sports venues IMHO

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 22, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I steadfastly refuse to delve in to any more Bradley debates till the season is over...

… as i’ve made my point (the Cubs share in the blame, and would do better to figure out how to handle players like Bradley rather than ditch them) so those that are open to the idea have heard it, and those that aren’t have ignored it.

I will attack the racism issue though…. as somebody who had supported Bradley up until just before he was suspended, i would have to assume i’m lumped in with those dumb / clueless you mention. I take offense to that.

I’ve been in the bleachers and have heard racist comments. Not just in reference in Bradley, but sure, he is included. And to pretend it isn’t an issue and shouldn’t be addressed, specifically in MB’s case, is to ignore a major element of the debate. Chicago is the most segregated city in America. The team we support is on the white side of the dividing line of that segregation. Race does, and should, play in to the conversation.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 22, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will disagree with you on only one comment...

… race, IMO, should NOT play into the conversation. We should judge and analyze each baseball player we discuss here on the merits of his performance and/or attitude, NOT on his race.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 22, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Race plays into the conversation..

because it’s part of the issue at hand, not because it’s a determining factor on anti or pro Bradley.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 22, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, no

It keeps getting brought up by people who seem to want to insist on it, but Bradley got suspended over something that had nothing to do with his race.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Sep 23, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 23, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley claims part of his attitude and troubles with the place...

…was due to racist comments he and even HIS KID were subjected to while on the North Side.

It’d be pretty convenient to ignore that, sure. It’d also be disingenuous to the situation he and other players are put in. It played in to Bradley’s problems here.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have to believe it one way or the other...

… to realize that it is part of the conversation. Even if that is a bald faced lie, it is one that has been leveled at our city, our fan base. It must be part of the discussion surrounding Bradley at this point.

I’m agreeing that there are those that take it to the extreme, that holler “RACISM!” over everything, and that it isn’t always about that. But we can’t let those people distract from the real issue, that race and racism – real or imagined – did play in to Bradley’s discomfort here.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he's lying about the school

what else is he lying about?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 23, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows?

Who cares? Should we not talk about it because he might be lying? Should we ignore his claims because he whines an inordinate amount when others shut up and accept it?

I’m not saying the fans at Wrigley are racist. I’m not saying Bradley was treated unfairly, or worse than others. I’m saying it needs to be discussed and considered as part of the greater Bradley situation.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would you have a foreign policy discussion

and incorporate people who believe that aliens from Saturn are controlling the Prime Minister of Italy?

The very fact that someone makes a claim should not automatically make the topic valid.

Race IS a valid topic and I’m up for that discussion. But I’m saying Bradley’s experiences in Chicago are no longer credible to me.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 23, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So race isn't a worthwhile discussion as it relates to the Cubs...

… because Bradley is a jerk?

He isn’t the first to complain. As i said below:

Lets not pretend like it isn’t real… you need no more than to look at the t-shirt selection for sale outside the bleachers after every game to see it in action with respect to Pujols and Dome.

Look, i personally heard people hurl racist insults at Bradley at Wrigley. That doesn’t mean everyone that is critical of him is racist. But we can’t pretend it isn’t a factor the players for our team, the team we love, must contend with.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And yet Bradley says he wants to come back

Or, his mom says he does.

This is way too murky to solve. I have no doubt that a few fans crossed the line. I have no doubt about that.

And no one should have to endure even one taunt.

But I also think that Bradley is the type to take one taunt and make it 50.

I think he will take what could very well be one three-year-old calling his son a name that neither child understands and turn it into a school-wide conspiracy, or a city-wide one.

In short, I think he is far too leaky a vessel to put this discussion in.

I’m willing to discuss what YOU heard and what others have heard. But I no longer have any interest in things Bradley says he heard.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 23, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As with anything...

…how much weight you give something falls to one important thing; credibility.

From what I have seen, Bradley has little if any credibility. If he was in a court of law, he would get chewed up to the point nothing he said would carry any weight what so ever.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 23, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what about the claims

from Baker, Hawkins, Jones, et al who have had their battles to?

Are you implying it never happens and isn’t part of this equation?

by socalbob on Sep 23, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting that you mention Jones.

Jones made similar claims, and they were likely true.

However, after that he pretty much didn’t say anything, started to play better and by the time he left here, I think Cubs fans in general had a decent opinion on him.

Milton just keeps digging the hole larger and larger.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 23, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must be reading this wrong...

is anyone else seeing what I am?

by iCub on Sep 23, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jones made similar claims, and they were likely true.

However, after that he pretty much didn’t say anything, started to play better and by the time he left here, I think Cubs fans in general had a decent opinion on him.

Milton just keeps digging the hole larger and larger.

Seriously? I hope THIS is not the solution. I hope i am misinterpreting, reading, or something. Because what I’m seeing is not good.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on Sep 29, 2009 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're misinterpreting.

What do you see here?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 29, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That a player should just be quiet and take it? I thought your statement was in reference to Jones’s claims and that because he chose to ignore it opinion of him changed. If what Jones claimed is true, there should be a light shined on it and hopefully that element of the fan base will somehow lose its connection to the team.

I live in Louisville, KY and usually get to Wrigley a few times of year and to Cincy for the series there.

I’m also a black man and the racial comments I’ve heard from Cubs fan aren’t usually of the KKK type but of the insensitive joke at work type. They are the type some people wouldn’t be afraid to make in the company of people of other races because it’s a, I don’t know how to put it, stereotype or prejudicial joke.

No type of racial comment is worse than another, they are all bad. However and attitude towards a comment can be worse. Where as more people are less willing to comment about someone making a joke based around stereotypes or prejudices most will be more willing to condemn someone calling a player a nigger.

Both are racial comments, people just appear to have a different attitudes towards one and not the other.

 In closing from my limited experience I’ve noticed Cubs’ fans to have their problems with racial insensitivty but not anymore so that I’ve experienced from the public in general. I think possibly the fact that Cubs fans are more vocal in general can lead to a higher rate of these comments being made.

My two cents.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on Sep 29, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not in any way...

… trying to minimize what Jones and Bradley and others have heard, nor what you have had to face in your life.

It exists. But as you say, what Cubs fans exhibit is reflective of society in general. We have to fix that problem, and hopefully we will, but I do not think all Cubs fans can be tarred as racists.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 29, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you are trying to minimize

The statement just read awkwardly to me. Also I in no way think all Cubs fans can be tarred as racists.

Actually it’s a similar ignorance involved when someone attempts to make assumptions about Cubs fans based of the ignorance of a part of the fan base.

"Do you want a bunch of duds walking around with their shoulders slumped and having no emotions, no feelings?" Bradley said. "I don’t think the fans want that. I think they want a guy who’s going to get into the game and feel a little bit. I’ve always said, ‘I don’t really play baseball, I feel it.’ "

by Villeslgr on Sep 29, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley perceived...

…what you are saying correct, but one’s perceptions can be jaded (and sometimes completely off base) depending on there agenda etc..

This guy is one who has to have something to dislike, and he clearly loves being the victim.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 23, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could have sworn...

I specifically said it wasn’t part of the Bradley debate. But it is part of a larger issue.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 23, 2009 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying we judge the players based on race, Al...

… but I am saying pretending others don’t is ignorant. And pretending race didn’t play, at least a little bit, in to the MB situation, isn’t being fair to what he and other players at Wrigley endure.

Ignoring it is not acceptable. Its part of their experience on the field at Wrigley. It should be part of our discussion.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it SHOULD be a part of the discussion

But as I said yesterday, and others have noted, a handful of posters went over the edge and saw every single slight as racism.

It is possible to dislike someone because of who they are, not because of their heritage. The fact that a handful of others dismissed that was maddening. But, I and others have given those few too much attention already, as K25 helped me realize.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not tossing around accusations or racism...

… i’m pointing out that it exists and applies to the Bradley situation.

Big distinction.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess a more diplomatic way to say what i'm trying to say...

… would be to point out that we should no more pretend it isn’t an issue (and therefor not talk about it) than we should pretend it IS the issue, and make it entirely about that.

a handful of posters went over the edge and saw every single slight as racism.

Those people are idiots, hurting their own cause. But those pretending it has NOTHING to do with it are no better.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

But you assuming that I was lumping in all Bradley defenders with that group is no less wrong, no?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, you said this:
Over-under on how many are dumb/clueless enough to call you racist: 3

Wouldn’t you agree that saying that diminishes the ability of those who wish to have a real conversation about the issue to do so?

I would have never thought to accuse anybody here of racism unless they came out and said something racist. I’m not interested in a preemptive strike against hypothetical racism. You made a preemptive strike against anybody looking to include race in the discussion, and then, in turn, we’ve got Al saying things like:

race, IMO, should NOT play into the conversation.

Why not? It clearly affected Bradley, no matter if it was real or imagined, no matter if he needs to grow a thicker skin or not. Lets not pretend like it isn’t real… you need no more than to look at the t-shirt selection for sale outside the bleachers after every game to see it in action with respect to Pujols and Dome.

I just feel there is a happy medium between those hollering “RACISM!” at every turn and those wishing to pretend it doesn’t exist at all. And that your shot across the bow at the other side isn’t any more productive or warranted than the other sides disingenuous claims of racism were you to criticize Bradley legitimately.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I said that as a jab at the extremists

The point of my apparently too subtle jab was that I wouldn’t have been surprised to see someone post a response calling Damen a racist for criticizing MB without realizing that Damen is, in fact, a black man.

In all seriousness, please tell me how you could take that and read into it that all MB defenders are tinfoil hat wearers. Because that’s what your first response to me implied – not that you thought I was trying to take racism completely out of the discussion. (I wasn’t, btw.)

Al’s point was essentially this, I think: why can’t you dislike someone without it having something to do with their heritage? I don’t think he was suggesting that racism should never be discussed. Hell, I suspect he’s encountered anti-semitism, so he’s not going to claim prejudice doesn’t exist or shouldn’t be talked about. Again, it was the extremeists that were being addressed — and I think you’ve seen some of the more ridiculous comments, so there’s no need for me to link to them.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just re-read Al's comment, and you took it out of context

He was saying that should not be a criteria to judge a player. In a previous response, you seemed to realize that’s what he was getting at. So why would you use that out of context?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't looking to take it out of context...

… and when you look at it in the larger view of what we are trying to discuss here, what Al said doesn’t really make any sense.

He wants to take race out of the conversation and only view players based on their production and attitude… yet it is clear that the race issue, in and of itself, has affected Bradley’s production and attitude. Now, granted, the “thicker skin” thing comes in to play. Others have dealt with it better. But it still played its part in this whole controversy.

Again, i just want this to be clear. I’m not accusing anybody of racism. I’m not accusing anybody of IGNORING racism. I’m just saying that making a discussion entirely about race, or leaving race entirely out of it, in either case, would be wrong.

(As a side note, i think i finally stumbled on some of the ‘too quick to holler racism’ posts you and others referred to. Patently redic, i agree. Shame on those folk for devolving a very real issue with that sort of rhetoric.)

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"The too quick to holler" posts

are what got me going all along – not the least part because of your last sentence.

I was surprised that you thought I lumped you in with that crowd, but if you hadn’t seen them, it makes more sense to me now.

I understand what you’re saying about including the issue, but I really think what Al was saying is that people shouldn’t inherently read that into the criticism.

Anyway, I think we’re pretty much on the same page here.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would recommend...

…Bradley’s future team screen every fan that enters the stadium to be sure no one will yell anything he doesn’t like.

If that doesn’t work, I would recommend he find a new line of work where there aren’t 40,000 people watching him work.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 29, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I never said you were

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you don't belive his performance and/or attitude...

… could be directly affected by issues of race?

Those with a thicker skin than Bradley, maybe not. But in Bradley’s case, we need to admit it did affect his performance and attitude. And thus is fair game as far as being part of the discussion of how this season played out.

Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Sep 23, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, Andrew. You skipped over several clarfiying comments that were posted

4 hours before you posted this.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rec'd

Very well said, I think you hit the nail on the head here

"Respect" ~ Ryne Sandberg

by gwood on Sep 22, 2009 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry threw Bradley under the bus?

Try Bradley threw his teammates, his manager, the entire organization, the city, and all of Cubdom under the bus. Dempster wasn’t “piling it on”, he was telling it how it was, just like Reed, Aramis, and Lee did.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Sep 21, 2009 8:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Like Al said...

When Aramis Ramirez starts talking about a situation something is SERIOUSLY wrong, because he usually just talks with his bat and keeps his comments to himself. Dempster, Lee, Reed, even Theriot told it like it was. What, are we supposed to sugarcoat everything NOW, too?

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually more revealing was Theriot being pretty silent

Theriot has been the go-to-guy for quotes this year. Yet he provided very little in this situation. To me, his lack of quotes gives way that Bradley was a serious issue. Then again, Theriot might have just repeated what everyone else said so he wasn’t quoted very much.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think it’s telling that he DIDN’T say very much, that’s what I tried to imply. He just gave one line, and you’re right, maybe he didn’t say very quotable things, but the way his passage came off, it was almost as if the last thing he wanted to do was talk about a chapter of his playing career that seems to be over now.

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because Theriot will be honest

If you’ve ever heard him on the radio or at Cubs Convention he doesn’t speak highly of Dusty Baker. He told a story where Dusty told Theriot his only use for the team was to get plunked by Roger Clemens (I believe his first at-bat). He also said Dusty betrayed him by practically guaranteeing a starting spot in 2006 but then insisting they trade for Freddie Bynum.

Now I’m not looking for a Theriot debate, but the fact that he openly has talked about his disdain for a manager who is in the NL Central, it’s telling.

That being said, perhaps Theriot is afraid that Bradley is a psychopath and since they are locker neighbors he didn’t want to say anything where he’d have to watch his back in the clubhouse.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I don’t even remember the negativity between Theriot and Baker. I didn’t pay much attention in 2006, not because the team sucked but because of personal issues that just didn’t allow the time to watch the games.

I remember watching one game against Colorado in ‘06 where he had a bases clearing triple, I believe. This was around the time he was hitting .360, and nailing just about everything in sight. I turned to my uncle and asked "Why in the hell do Neifi Perez, Freddy Bynum, and Cesar Izturis see the field while this guy’s on the bench?"

I’m a big Theriot fan and have been for awhile. I’m glad he’s got a gig here as the starting shortstop, and I think you’re right, maybe he’s just really apprehensive to say anything about Bradley before his hopeful leave.

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think this was in 2005 with the pinch hit incident

By the way, I don’t recognize your SN on here. Are you new or have we just not chatted back and forth before? If you’re new, welcome! This site used to battle over Theriot bashing and Theriot supporters. Obviously there have been bigger issues on the team this year to subside those fights. Just giving you a heads up on what you could expect in the off-season!

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've been around.

I had an old nametag I didn’t really care for so I went under a new name, following the whole Chickenfoot craze. I’ve been lurking and posting between that old name and this for about a year and a half now. I was around during the offseason, and trust me, I know how it gets. Can’t say I’m not looking forward to the debates, though, that’s for sure!

I’ve had this tag since June, so we haven’t chatted back and forth, though I have read your posts. I don’t post around here much anyway, between school and life it gets a bit overboard. But thanks for the welcome anyway, it’s greatly appreciated!

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Link to game

It was 2006

http://www.kplr11.com/cs-060815cubsgamer,0,3786646.story

I remember hearing this story a year or 2 ago but it stuck with me for some reason.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

These comments don't prove Theriot's honesty.

These comments come off as very self-serving. It’d be different if the stories were, for example, about how Dusty held back other players.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Sep 22, 2009 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They are scrappy, though.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True.

Theriot still leads the league in SCORP and has daver mentioned his SZR rating?

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Sep 22, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

man, now THAT is cool

was that As Seen On TV??

Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..

coda

ELO, 1975

by cubnational on Sep 22, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably.

Came up as a result on a search of “scissors” on Google Images.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 23, 2009 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So did this:

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 23, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree w/ most of this

Sheehan is acting like a fan who has no clue. As has been said, the Bradley stuff that we see is just a part of it. There likely is a LOT more going on then we know. The fact of the matter is that a lot of boorish stuff goes on in baseball clubhouses and much of that does not get public comment from other players in the clubhouse. The fact that players have been speaking out on Bradley for quite some time now should tell everyone that there is much more to this than meets the eye.

However what I do agree with is the part about currying favor and distracting fans. Hey Jim, what the hell did you think was going to happen when you signed Bradley? Milton has a track record of run-ins throughout his career. No GM has ever wanted to give him a multi-year deal. What did you expect to happen when you signed him? Hendry ignored past behavior or simply thought that Bradley would change and that was foolish on his part. Hendry deserves a lot of blame for signing Bradley and bringing his attitude into the clubhouse.

by dmlichte on Sep 21, 2009 8:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

And then there's the Tribune today

Where all of this nonsense occurred:

Bradley took himself out of Saturday’s lineup, then refused to pinch-hit late in the game, leading to Joshua getting in his face.


That’s not race, thats not the media, that not anything except for being an idiot. See ya.

"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth

by TkGoUWGB on Sep 21, 2009 8:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Its a means to an end

the writing is on the wall, this wont end well, so he saw an opportunity to strike the first blow and he did; whether Hendry will get away with it w/o some sort of claim by the Union is unlikely, but one can imagine its simply the first step to Miltons departure.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Sep 21, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks...

…for a different perspective, but Joe Sheehan is wrong. If Hendry was wrong and was making MB into a scapegoat, then the Chicago CUbs TEAM would be all shocked, surprised, and unable to believe what happened. Obviously, they are not, and don’t mind one bit that MB is not on the team. That right there says everything.

by TheHawkRules on Sep 21, 2009 9:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The team backed Hendry...

…because Bradley had it coming. The issue is, he had it coming months ago and Hendry didn’t send any message then.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 21, 2009 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno.... maybe...

…It’s very possible there is a lot more going on than what we know. We, as fans, always act like we know everything that goes on in the locker room, etc… I think the Cubs clubhouse haven’t been open to us about a lot of things concerning MB… and they have every right to be like this.

There will be more revealed to us as time goes on. Just wait and see…

by TheHawkRules on Sep 21, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

When Lou called him...

…a POS, that should have been clue number one that something was amiss and Hendry should have stepped in. He didn’t because he was hoping beyond hope, that he didn’t make a 30 mil dollar mistake.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 21, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

… and they probably all sat down and had a lot of butt kissing conversations filled with a million “i’m sorries.”

Something prolly should have been done earlier… but something recently really hit the nail on the head. What? I dunno. Maybe we will find out.

Regardless, Hendry should not have signed MB and there is no way MB is going to be a scapegoat because the mistake was Hendry’s in the first place. There is no saving grace from that. He signed a dud and that’s going to be in Hendry’s resume no matter what.

by TheHawkRules on Sep 21, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked.

Here I thought I was paying attention and yet I had no idea Ryan Dempster played like crap this season.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 21, 2009 9:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

did you hear aaron miles is hitting .170

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 21, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What do we care? He plays for St. Louis.

Wait, what?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no no

he got drafted by the astros

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 22, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

To the article.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 21, 2009 10:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Andre Dawson disagrees

Is he racist, too?

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 21, 2009 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ANDRE DAWSON!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, i’m a huge fan. Thanks for posting this.

by TheHawkRules on Sep 21, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am, too.

Dawson should be in the HoF. He’s a class act, also.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good lord you're being shrill about this

Your hilarious defensiveness has made you fundamentally incapable of understanding the difference between “Race may have been one of the many factors that impacted Bradley’s reception at Wrigley” and “All fans who dislike Bradley are racist.”

by Wreckard on Sep 22, 2009 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No, you don't get it.

I never disputed that race may be one of the factors.

For a month, anyone that said anything negative about Bradley was being labelled racist on this site.

It’s absurd, and as I’ve said, it takes attention away from the fact that racism still is a problem – not just in Chicago or the United States.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Enough

Milton has had enough chances his whole career. He repeatedly wears out his freaking welcome in a town in less than a year. Shame on Hendry signing the clown.
 It is obvious from the players comments this bullshit has been going on for a while, and what I can gather they have no issue for him hitting the road. So screw some reporter that doesn’t spend the whole day around the guy, a whole 10 day road trip with the guy like the manager and players do. I take there word before some rag writer. CASE FREAKING CLOSED, He is gone, thank goodness.

by Grockcubs on Sep 21, 2009 10:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

BLAME THE MEDIA

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 21, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could be way of base...

…but I don’t think this happens unless there was an ownership change coming or the team was doing better.

I say that because of this; Hendry was defending Bradley the whole way and now he decides to suspend him. If he would have nipped this in the bud originally, it may not have gotten to this.

Piniella went off on Bradley back in June, and I didn’t see a lot of public support from Hendry at that time. Now, things aren’t looking real good and Hendry probably said I have to show I am in charge.

I have said this before, but it has been a while. Hendry reminds me of a politician who is very cognizant of public perception. He did it with Sosa in 04, and he knowingly cratered his trade value by releasing the video, because the most important thing to him was getting the public on his side.

If you listen to Hendry’s quotes about Bradley when he signed him, you would think Bradley was the greatest thing since sliced bread. He even defended some of his goofy in previous years, by saying he would have been dissappointed if he didn’t respond the way he did.

You really have to wonder what Ricketts thinks about all this, and how thrilled he is with the money he will have to eat on Bradley and others to clean up this mess.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 21, 2009 10:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Indeed.

Why the sudden change of heart? He’s been blaming the Cubs fanbase and barking at us for booing him since May. He’s thrown us under the bus more than enough times to count, so why on earth did Hendry wait until now, after comments that didn’t seem nearly as serious as some of his other diatribes earlier in the season, to put his foot down?

We did the right thing, because I’m so glad that the Milton Bradley era is apparently over. But why did it take so long? I’d have done something as soon as Bradley got into it with Lou. Lou may be a pain in the ass sometimes to players I’m sure but he never seemed like a guy whose face you need to get into. That was beyond ridiculous and should’ve been handled better than it was.

You’re right, Ricketts must be THRILLED about having to eat that contract. While I think Hendry did the right thing, I still wouldn’t be happy with him if I were Tom Ricketts. That’s just me.

I think Hendry needs to go with Bradley. He, Soriano, Fukudome, Zambrano, Miles, and all the other bad contracts he’s given out really bit us in the arse this year. And I can’t see it getting much better.

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey...

…Maybe Ricketts is the one who picked up the phone, called Hendry, and said something like… “I don’t like this…” Hendry could have responded, “I’ll take care of it!” and that is that.

Who knows.

by TheHawkRules on Sep 21, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe.

It’s possible, who knows? None of us do. So we jump to conclusions, all of us including myself are guilty of that. Anything’s possible in this scenario, and I have a feeling we haven’t heard the end of any of this.

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair

Since the whole Sam Zell purchase, who knows how many of Hendry’s decisions haven’t been from someone higher up?

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference with Lou and Bradley

Was that Lou was professional enough to admit he didn’t handle the situation the best he could and apologized. I don’t read many Cubs articles but please show me one this year where Bradley did the same thing.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He hasn't.

That’s the problem, he’s shown zero remorse for anything he’s said this season. He spews his BS and expects it to stick, but here’s a guy who wasn’t endeared to the city as it was and he never helped his cause during the season. And I don’t expect any kind of apology from the guy, either.

Lou’s a professional. That’s why he’s been in the game so long. Bradley would be lucky to get another season under his belt, I’d say.

by ZachenFoot on Sep 21, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought so

But I want to give him benefit of the doubt that someone who supports Bradley on here will show an article to debunk what I said.

I will make one more point. I’ve been lucky to see Cubs plays at 6 different parks this year. In Philly, DC and NY fans have yelled derogatory comments to Bradley in the OF or when he’s at-bat. Nothing racist but definitely not flattering. All three of those comments were unnecessary because he played a good game and this fan didn’t yell at anyone else. Granted I couldn’t tell you if it was a Cubs fan or a home fan of the park but you get my drift.

by ak123 on Sep 21, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is a description

of the Piniella-Bradley shouting match. http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/06/milton-bradley-at-us-cellular-before-saturdays-game.html

If you look at it impartially, it appears Bradley was the grown up in that incident. Remember that this was around the time Zambrano was beating up gatorade dispensers. I’d guess that Lou took a disliking to Milton early in the year for him to go off on him in June.

If you like Selig's handling of the steroid issue, you'll love his choice for next Cub owner.

by tharr on Sep 22, 2009 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I doubt these will meet your criteria...

But I’m not sure what he was supposed to do. Apologize for being called a POS?

Quote 1:

Asked if he was singled out by Piniella since other Cubs players have made a scene in the dugout, Bradley said, "Like I’ve said, I don’t have the same set of rules as other people. Because of the mistakes I’ve made in my career, I don’t get the leeway other guys get to a certain extent."

Qoute 2:

“To me, Lou Piniella is somebody. If its a motivating tactic and he’s taking a different switch since people are saying he didn’t have fire, then I understand. I take a lot of heed in what he has to say. It matters. I take it to heart and I’m better for it.”

by redward on Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was glad they suspended him.

Is it harsh? Yes. Is it justified? Yes.

It reminds me of when the Angels released Jose Guillen when they were in the middle of the pennant race because he was a total d-bag. Respect is a two-way street, and as an organization, you have to expect a certain amount of professionalism.

G’bye Milton. It wasn’t all your fault…but most of it was.

Scott Bora$ is satan.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Sep 22, 2009 6:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hendry probably did Gameboard a favor...

….could you imagine how much uglier the crowd would be against Milton the next homestand after those comments in the paper?

Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team

by carmen_fanzone on Sep 22, 2009 7:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

An interesting point

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley needed to go but

Hendry’s supposed defense of Cub fans is pandering to the highest degree. Just embarrassing. He knows he made a number of horrid moves this year and hopes it will all be camouflaged by his late season “handling” of the Bradley fiasco. One of the worst seasons for a GM in this town in a long time and this being Chicago, that’s really saying something.

by the nth on Sep 22, 2009 8:48 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Not surprised

Hendry and the Tribune used the same tactics to run Alou and Sosa out of town.

I’ll say one thing, the guy is great at lowering the value of our players. Buy high, sell low. Have another donut, Jimbo.

by salparadise23 on Sep 22, 2009 8:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that's what he's saying...

Milton’s done the every day work in that department, but definitely making a big splash with such a public suspension has to have an effect in what we can get from him in the offseason. Similar to Sammy, for sure.

I’m totally on board with getting rid of Bradley. You do this quietly in the offseason and you might be able to build a scenario that sounds appealing to a team. Now there’s no question we’ll take pretty much anything…

I don't care how long you've been around, you'll never see it all.

by Dou on Sep 22, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hm, that's true.

I think Hendry felt his hand was forced. I even wonder whether he feared Milton would embarass the organization further in coming weeks.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 22, 2009 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

daver speaks sense.

Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.

by DGU on Sep 22, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks!

I may have to make this my new sig line.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 22, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may be right, but I'd have had more

respect for Hendry if Bradley’s last straw occurred before the Cubs were finally out of it. MB’s comments weren’t great, but if all this is based mostly on behind the scenes stuff fans don’t know, keeping him around “just in case” gives the scapegoat argument credence.

MB has turned out to be a fool, but Hendry deserves most of the blame for the season. Not starting the season with a working every day second base plan, a backup capable of more than spot starts at third, a better bullpen, etc.

if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand

by N Oakley on Sep 22, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

could also have been pressure

from the players to remove him.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 22, 2009 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For a baseball insider

such as Joe Sheehan to be as cynical as he is about this situation, just shows how truly ignorant he must be. I’m sure this is the last thing Hendry wanted to do. Why would Hendry be willing to diminish the trade value of Bradley by suspending him for the remainder if it was only because of his rants to the media? Not a single player defended Bradley after they found out he was suspended, that is an unusual situation for a player inside the Baseball fraternity not to be defended by one of his teammates. What was really going on behind the scenes that we as fans aren’t privy to? The situation probably became too much for anyone to handle, and the result was probably best for everyone involved.

As for what happens to Hendry as a result should at least be played out until he can find a suitor for Bradley and then we see what he gets in return. We all seem to forget as did Hendry that this man’s transgressions didn’t just exist on the field or in the clubhouse, Bradley was a volatile person in his personal life as well. In 2005 the L.A. Police were called to his home numerous times and one time they found his pregnant wife with a bloody nose, Bradley had fled his home before police arrived and the officers on the scene said they "would have arrested him if he had been home at the time".

I would love to see the Cubs unload this guy before the start of next season but to be honest I would prefer not to see him in another uniform again, the man is bad for baseball.

by troutfishin on Sep 22, 2009 10:19 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Jim Hendry = Otter???

I think the public reasons given for the suspension are lacking. The short quote (which may have been far less than he actually said) reminded my of this scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TgqenWW0I

by DaveinHouston on Sep 22, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

"Hendry needs to follow Bradley out the door."

Regardless of when Bradley was suspened or the reason, he was a crappy pick-up and Hendry is a crappy GM. I know he built back-to-back division champs and you can’t blame him for the team choking in the first round in back-to-back years. You can, however, blame him (and I do) for not building a bench, having a crappy bullpen, the debacle that was David Patton, and bringing in that locker room cancer Milton Bradley. We all know his stats and that Hendry was banking on Bradley having a comback year. I never bought into it and I’ll be glad when they are both gone.

by Justin T on Sep 22, 2009 2:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Joe Sheehan is being presumptuous...

by assuming that what is public knowledge is the only reason Bradley was suspended. Unless Joe knows the whole story (which he obviously does not)… perhaps he should ease up on the self-righteous talk.

This seems like a guy who doesn’t know all the facts, but will spout off at the mouth anyway, to get some visibility.

Mustache be gone!

by digitalbenjamin on Sep 22, 2009 5:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Cubs convention

Everyone should boycott it to show the fans distaste with Hendry and management. Isn’t JH reprimanding himself by using Bradley as a scapegoat for the season? I mean he’s the one that gave him the rediculous contract.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 22, 2009 6:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Great, You Stay Home

More for room the rest of us.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Sep 22, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And shorter lines for autographs

Actually the convention has a LOT of kids so good luck telling them you are not letting them go because the Cubs
signed Bradley.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 22, 2009 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to worry

I’d rather eat nails than go to it. There’s nothing like eternal optimism surrounding an overrated signing(s), or listening to a borderline senile manager talk about the upcoming season.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 22, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gee, it must be good to you

I mean, so much better than the rest of us and all.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Sep 23, 2009 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To each his own

Never said I was better than anyone. It’s not for me, and to support a team after a failure of a year would be like throwing chum to a feeding frenzy.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 23, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've never been to a Cubs convention. Is it fun? What do they do?

I haven’t gone because I’m not really into getting autographs, but have often wondered what else goes on there and if I’d be interested. Is it worth giving up my birthday/Christmas presents and other such bribery to go?

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 23, 2009 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are some very interesting Q& A sessions with players & management

Which contrary to popular belief is not all sunshine & puppies.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 23, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so, how exactly is Bradley one of our best players?

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Sep 22, 2009 7:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OBP OBP OBP

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 23, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you acknowledge...

… that maybe these other things that Hendry alluded to were dealt with privately, outside the media, and thus got no attention? Perhaps Hendry was trying to keep those troubles in-house, given Bradley’s stated desire for privacy and a lack of attention, and only this last public outburst was the final straw?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 23, 2009 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course Al.

That’s why I don’t think we can give a definitive judgment on how Lou and JH handled Bradley this year. All we really know is the end result.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 24, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

It’s hard to have a conversation about this situation, because so many people are so angry about so many different things.

My thinking is that issues in the clubhouse must have gotten bad enough that Hendry wondered what Bradley would do next if they kept running him out there. The problem with what Hendry did is that he made Bradley’s trade value negative when before it was at least neutral. But what if Hendry had a sense that Bradley was going to go that far if left unchecked anyway?

The positive for what Hendry did is that the players and manager clearly approved. Someone said that Hendry can’t be a players’ manager again having done this. I don’t know. I think Hendry did this because he is a players’ GM.

What if MB was annoying through most of the season, but when it became clear that the Cubs were going to trade him in the offseason, over the past few weeks, what if Bradley had decided to just wreck havok in the clubhouse? The fact that MB wasn’t taking pitches or walks in Sept implied that kind of screw-it attitude.

That’s my speculation anyway.

"Jim is a smart man. He knows what he has to do. He knows what went wrong. I'm pretty sure he's going to fix it." - Aramis Ramirez on one of the best GMs in the game.

by DGU on Sep 23, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry if my comment bothered you,

but the way I see it just the mention of MB’s name brings out a lot of arguing back and forth. I wrote that after that monster 900 comment game recap. To me, when people blame the media, fans, Hendry, racism, etc. etc for his behavior they are in effect defending him. I also feel that when they defend him, they are sort of insulting the rest of the team whether they realize it or not because it goes against the players and other people involved that are saying that suspending him was the right thing to do. Other people may not see it this way. It’s just how I feel. Again, I apologize if this was taken the wrong way. I really don’t want to start any arguments. That’s why I said I would stay away.

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 23, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which was a very unimpressive "apology".

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 23, 2009 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

And if people start suggesting that we forgive and forget, I will not be able to hold my tongue any longer.

"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Sep 23, 2009 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very umimpressive...

…and not very sincere either.

Clearly, this was recommended by his representative, to try and do something to repair his image. Good luck with that one!

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 23, 2009 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always

recommending or written by an agent, attorney, representative, etc. It’s rarely from the heart, and most certainly not sincere.

"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet

by propheteer on Sep 24, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your comment...

did not bother me at all. I too get fed up with repeat arguments here. I didn’t mean any offense by using your line as an example.

Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub

by Kansas25 on Sep 24, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It seems to me that people are using this sad Bradley situation to try to make themselves

“the story.” One is Sheehan, the other is the author of this needless Fanpost.

Seacrest, out.

"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson

by LAcarl519 on Sep 24, 2009 7:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's the entire situation summed up very well.

Thank you.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 26, 2009 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bradley

is a cancer plain and simple. the cubs got what they deserved for signing a guy with his reputation. we could have signed adam dunnand had 40 to 50 home runs from the position. as far as getting bradley out of the clubhouse good job.

by NOMAR on Sep 27, 2009 5:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The suspension for what he said to the Daily Hearld is bogus.

Nothing new. Nothing he hadn’t already said. For that he gets a suspension until the end of the season? Ridiculous.

If it was a culmination, then Hendry should have said that. Bradley should have filed a grievance, and he would have been justified in doing so.

Hendry most certainly threw Bradley under the bus and made him the scapegoat.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Sep 27, 2009 10:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hendry DID say it was a culmination of things.

I can’t find the link now where he said that, but he did say it. And given the fact that Hendry is a players’ GM, I believe that he must have been pushed pretty far.

There were no grounds for a grievance, because Bradley IS getting paid. The union cannot force a team to put a player in the lineup or even have him in the clubhouse, as long as he is getting paid.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 28, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was suspended without the proper paperwork being filed...

Therefore Bradley had cause to file a grievance with the Player’s Union. Plain and simple. I was not aware that Hendry gave the reason initially that it was due to a culmination. When he announced it, (without filing paperwork), it was my understanding that he stated it was b/c of the interview & what Bradley said. Make no mistake though, Bradley had every right to file a grievance.

I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...

by Jimmyeatworld on Sep 28, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...

..he had every right to file a grievence, just as I have every right to run down to the court house and file suit against anyone.

Face it, the dude was freaking impossible to deal with, and he really was over matched with the pressure playing in Chicago. Hendry just screwed up by being blind in thinking this guy was the answer – end of story.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Sep 28, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No grievance was filed.

Of that, you can be certain. No “paperwork” needed to be filed, because he is getting paid. Everything was worked out, and no grievance was filed, nor was any grievance justified. MPH73’s post above is spot on.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 28, 2009 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, Jimmy - gotta disagree.

The Herald interview marked the first time Bradley explicitly disrespected the Cubs organization and, if I’m not mistaken, the first time he openly disrespected his teammates (hard to say whether he meant to do this or not – but he did).

Plus, as Al said, Hendry’s first statement after the suspension did state that the disciplinary action was based on a culmination of incidents, not the least of which was a nose-to-nose confrontation with hitting coach Von Joshua. And I haven’t seen any indication Hendry is scapegoating Bradley for the Cubs disappointing season.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 28, 2009 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do make some valid points.

However, the missed opportunity was by Jim Hendry for not realizing before he signed Milton that his personality simply wasn’t going to fit in as a Cub. I think the key is this: Bradley himself said he “didn’t want all the attention”.

If that’s the case, why sign with probably the third-highest-profile franchise in the game with a national fanbase?

About being a cancer, etc. we simply do not know what went on in private — all we have are the statements of his teammates, not one of whom defended him and just about all of whom said that he really didn’t fit in nor did he make any effort to fit in, and the statement of Jim Hendry, who said the remarks to Bruce Miles were only “the last straw”.

You’re right that there’s no chance of reconciliation. There shouldn’t have been a relationship in the first place.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 28, 2009 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying his being here was an opportunity.

Now, it’s not like there’s any way to round up all of the Cubs fans and media in Chicago and get them to agree to stay mum on the subject till he settled in. But what if, through some miracle, that happened?

Would it just be delaying the inevitable? I think many, if not most, here would say yes. But I’m not convinced. I think if he’d had a chance to find his feet, he may have been able to build up enough good will and confidence to shield him from some of the noise. We may have at least been able to get a year. And a year of good, productive Milton on the field and a less disruptive Milton in the clubhouse might just have been enough this year.

Now I’m not saying it’s our fault. He has said himself that he has less leeway because of the mistakes he made in the past. But I will say this: throughout this season, I’ve become increasingly disappointed in my fellow fans. We’ve become accustomed to success, and we’ve begun to demand instant results from our players and we let them know if they don’t meet our elevated expectations.

We boo our own guys. On opening day. We shout racial slurs out our players in our stadium (yes, we do). I don’t think that’s okay. I think we’re turning into Yankees fans. And I cannot stand the idea of that.

by redward on Sep 28, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who the hell is this "we" you talk about?

Every single Chicago fan could agree not to say a word to Bradley and he’d find a way to get mad at passing pigeons.

I have no doubt a FEW fans made racial slurs — although the one reliable eyewitness story we got had a White Sox fan visiting Wrigley and making the bulk of the comments.

I will not be tarnished with that brush, any more than I would call Bradley a criminal because a black guy mugged someone.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 7:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no doubt it was more than a few.

And as far as that’s concerned, it’s not limited to Bradley. I’m sure there are slurs hurled at our non-black, non-white players as well. And at our white players, for that matter.

As for the “we.” It’s Cubs fans. If you don’t consider yourself part of that community, fine. But if you do, you have to take responsibility for the people you associate with.

What I’m talking about is beyond Bradley. I’m talking about a fanbase that seems to have become increasingly angry. Right now I think it’s just an obnoxiously vocal minority, but it’s growing. I’m sorry, but I’d rather be a lovable loser than a shitty winner.

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will not be responsible for that

I will speak against it and I have.

But I will not be defined by them.

Brett Myers beat his wife. I guess all baseball players beat their wives, right?

This is a disgusting, offensive and stupid argument you are making.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think if you don’t stand up to those who are making you look bad as a group, you can’t complain when you all get painted with the same brush.

If you see a guy shouting racist insults and you don’t even use the anonymous security text alert they’ve set up, I think that makes you a coward. Or someone who doesn’t care how Cubs fans look to the rest of the world.

When it comes to baseball players, they are now presumed guilty when any steroid allegations are raised. Why? Because they all kept their heads down and did nothing to fight the growing plague within their ranks.

So right now Cubs fans are just a few bad apples. But you know the actual saying, right? “One bad apple spoils the whole barrel.”

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, and that's a stupid saying

I go to a game once every three years. I refuse to be defined by how people act at games.

An Asian woman ran a red light and hit my car a few years back. I now proclaim that no Asian should be allowed to drive.

This is fun!

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You’re comparing a traffic accident (unless she purposely ran the red light) to someone consciously shouting pure hatred at a guy playing a game.

Bad analogies spoil the whole argument.

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In this case, each of you is talking about ONE person.

You said “one bad apple spoils the whole barrel”.

I could come back with another saying: “Don’t judge a book by its cover”.

There are clearly some bad Cubs fans who yelled racist stuff at Milton Bradley (and others). That does not tar the rest of us, though.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 29, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it does if the rest of us don’t work to either distance the bad Cubs fans from us or ourselves from them.

Racism is a disease. It spreads if left unchecked. There are kids at these games. What are they learning?

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We do have to do that.

But again, it doesn’t mean all of us are racists.

Obviously, the problem is bigger than just baseball fans.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 29, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And any Asian who didn't force the other driver to go to driving school

is by extension, a bad driver.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now you're just extending an analogy that was never apt in the first place.

Either way, I’m done arguing with you.

It appears you’d rather shout me down and throw off condescending, lazy arguments than have a meaningful discussion.

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let me know if you ever produce anything more meaningful

than “We shout racial slurs”

That was stupid, offensive and immature. Other than that, it meant a lot to me.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay. I'm giving this one last shot.

This is going to get pretty sophisticated, though, so you may want to prepare yourself.

Cubs fans shout racial slurs.

We are Cubs fans.

I didn’t say “We all, down to the last fan, shout racial slurs.” I said “We shout racial slurs.” Some of us do.

Apparently that was offensive to you.

It’s offensive to me, too.

Maybe “we” should try to weed out those among “us” who are killing our reputation among other fans and players.

Or maybe “we” should just stand pat and say “not my problem.”

I favor the former. You appear to favor the latter.

You counter my arguments by calling them stupid and by introducing irrelevant analogies.

I try to clarify my arguments so we can either reach an agreement or determine the fundamental ideas on which we differ.

You just extend your bad analogy and call my argument stupid again.

I think I’m better at arguing than you are. You probably think that’s stupid.

by redward on Sep 29, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

No
I didn’t say "We all, down to the last fan, shout racial slurs." I said "We shout racial slurs." Some of us do.

It is SIMPLISTIC, not SOPHISTICATED (both begin with an “S” so I guess I can see your confusion) to say that because SOME fans shouted racial slurs, WE shout racial slurs.

That is ridiculous tarring of a fan base because of the actions of a few. And it’s done in defense of someone who could hear ducks mating and think it’s a racial slur.

We have no common ground. You are interested in taking a cut and making it a sucking chest wound. You are interested in taking a gnat and making it a T-Rex.

And you’re doing it in defense of a loser who will play any card in the racial deck.

Bradley’s problem is that he let himself be defined by drunken idiots who made a racial taunt.

I have no interest in making that same mistake.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There seems to be agreement here

that Milton must have done more than we heard for these actions to be warranted?

Inspector #23 certifies that the above post is sarcasm free, most certainly not what she said, and chock full of intangibles, although regressing to the intangible mean, as you'd expect.

by DGU on Sep 28, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, I thought he handled it just fine.

We do not know all of the incidents that led up to this; Hendry is a player’s GM, and thus I believe he must have been pushed pretty far to have to do this. You cannot look at the final straw in a vacuum; a lot of other things happened that we never heard about.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Oct 1, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

according to Bradley apologists for the most part

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Oct 2, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guess what? I don't care

I don’t care if Bradley is being given more than his fair share of the blame. I care that he’s off the team.

I’m not going to cry for a player who didn’t want to be here. He’ll be very happy with the $21 million he has coming and he can play for last-place teams in San Diego or Kansas City, where no one cares what he does.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 29, 2009 6:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You don't go on public record

criticizing the organization that pays your (most generous) salary. You just don’t. At least not without expecting repercussions. There was no other way to handle it except to get rid of the person which amounts to firing except a team can’t really do that. So Hendry did what he could , he suspended him. And I do believe that this was the final straw in a long line of Bradley issues, many of which we know nothing about

, All of the Bradley psycho babble in this thread is meaningless except for perhaps an analyst should Bradley ever consider exploring why he is so dysfunctional. But as a baseball player, he either performs and functions in a positive way or he doesn’t. And it’s been clear for some time that Bradley does not.

Which begs the question…why in the h—- did Hendry sign him, for three years no less? Apart from his skills a player brings a package ( a presence) into the clubhouse and who in their right mind would actually choose to inject poison into a happy, contented environment as the 2008 team claimed to be.

Well, Hendry made a big big mistake. But give him credit, he chose not to live with it anymore.

by alexinSac on Oct 2, 2009 3:17 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

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Recent FanPosts

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Cubs 2010 2B and "the L word"
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Is there anyway we trade some of our high-priced players?
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Milton Bradley Named NL "LVP" By Joe Posnanski
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Crazy Idea: Rob Quinlan
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OT: Big Ten Football Thread, Nov. 21
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Grabow to sign
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SI archive story on Sandberg and Salaries
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OT -- Head to Evanston to Root on Northwestern -- 11/21 v. Wisconsin
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On Harden and the Players Jim Hendry Lets Go

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FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

FanGraphs calls Grabow a "waste of cash."
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Baseball America's Top 10 Cubs Prospects
An animated tribute to the no-hitter that Pirates pitcher Dock Ellis threw on June 12, 1970. Simply...

Recent FanShots

A Chicagoan, Part Of Cardinals Ownership Group, Dies
Making Fun Of Tim Lincecum's Hair...
Would you blow up the farm system for Halladay?
Minor League Ball Interview With Billy Beane
Castillo Rumor Won't Go Away
Minor League FA's
The Cubs Debut of Turk Wendell: A Cautionary Tale Of Classic Cubs History
Slightly OT re: Cards
Lincecum wins NL Cy Young
Kansas City Royals new alt cap, to be worn during home day games. My verdict: ugly. Details here.

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It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

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Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

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Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
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Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
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Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

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