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Around SBN: Indy 500: 'Greatest Spectacle In Racing' Set For Sunday

I'm not sure whether this helps us money-wise, because I believe Texas has financial issues. But there ya go.

over 2 years ago 1993_topps_mm_marlins_tiny daver 156 comments 0 recs  | 

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Perfect

Maybe we can actually get a solid player or two back from them. I don’t know, though. If we do, I think either Byrd or Murphy would be a solid addition.

by Mulhollandmania on Sep 21, 2009 10:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Well then

Murphy could be made available, depending on if they resign Hamilton.

by Mulhollandmania on Sep 22, 2009 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Michael Young?

He’s a good player, but he has an absolutely terrible contract. I have no idea if they’re interested in trading him, but with their financial issues they might jump at the chance to save money. Obviously it also depends on whether Ricketts wants to take on another huge long-tern contract.

by Big D on Sep 21, 2009 10:58 PM CDT reply actions  

The Rangers would probably love to dump Michael Young's contract.

Maybe this could be a solution.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

From Cots...

Michael Young inf
5 years/$80M (2009-13)

5 years/$80M (2009-13)
signed extension with Texas 3/07, with Rangers exercising $5M 2008 club option as part of the deal
09-13:$16M annually (total of $15M deferred)

no-trade protection 2007-09, limited no-trade protection from 2010 to May, 2011 (submits list of 8 clubs to which he’d accept trade), before receiving 10-and-5 rights in May, 2011

award bonuses: $50,000 for All Star selection; $25,000 for Gold Glove

Not the worst contract ever. If we traded contract for contract, the Cubs would essentially add on an additional $44 million to what they owed Milton. I’m not sure I’d do this. If you did, you’d probably say goodbye to Baker.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Baker has trade value.

So he, maybe along with some other player(s), could bring help in another area.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

i would love that infield

I could be wrong here and please correct me if I am but Young was a pretty good defensive Shortstop. Why not move him back there, move Theriot to second and have Blanco and possibly Fontenot to back them up. Lee, Theriot, Young, and Aram in the infield..This is a trade i would love to see happen..

"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher

by BelieveinBlue2314 on Sep 22, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not a good defensive shortstop - see below.

But, still, not necessarily a bad idea.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Rangers third baseman Michael Young said he had no issues with Bradley, either. “A lot of guys like Milton,” Young said. “I’m pretty sure if you ask guys in Chicago they’d say they like him. I don’t know what’s going on in Chicago, so I can’t really comment on it.”

Uh, Michael- you just did. And if you don’t know what’s going on in Chicago, how are you “pretty sure” guys in Chicago like him?

"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)

Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...

by Zeke on Sep 23, 2009 6:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Rangers are loaded

with prospects too! Loaded loaded loaded

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on Sep 21, 2009 11:06 PM CDT reply actions  

but do they have lind

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 21, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Apparently Ken Macha gets along with Milton too

This from MLB.com article

“Milwaukee’s Ken Macha managed Bradley in Oakland in 2006. Was he surprised by the outfielder’s troubles in Chicago?

“The Cubs have to do what they have to do,” Macha said Monday. “I had him for a year, and I think Milton and I are friends, so I’m not going to say anything negative about Milton. I know Lou and Jim Hendry, and I’m friends with them, too, so those guys have to figure out what’s going on with their own club.”

When asked to characterize Bradley’s personality, Macha said: “He’s intense, let me put it that way. He played well for me. He was our best player in the playoffs, and that guy has a tremendous desire to win.”

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 21, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Bradley on Brewers

I’d pay to see the cage fight between Fielder and Bradley in the lockeroom!

by ak123 on Sep 22, 2009 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

That reads like a lukewarm endorsement

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not even lukewarm.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bradley for Hamilton

Then we can sell Hamilton to the Reds for another $50,000.

by BucknerKongCardenal on Sep 21, 2009 11:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Apparently not.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

What is the story?

Not to re-open this discussion, but we agreed to sell our Rule 5 pick to the Reds prior to the draft.

At the time (and certainly in retrospect) I would have preferred to take the chance on Hamilton myself — I don’t think that he was teetering on the edge of relapse where only Mr. Narron could save him.

In fact, as it played out, he was in Texas within a year, away from Narron anyway.

We certainly had a huge hole in CF, and were looking for a LH power hitter to fill that role. We could have carried Hamilton for 90 days.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Teams do this all the time.

The Cubs were asked by the Reds to pick Hamilton for them — they had John Narron in their employ, a man Hamilton trusted to keep him sober.

The Cubs NEVER had any intention of drafting Hamilton. Ever. Teams don’t renege on these sorts of deals.

incidentally, the pick of David Patton last year in the Rule 5 draft was made for the Cubs by another team — the Reds.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I hope you have this speech saved in a word file...

…so it’s easy to copy and paste to BCB.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, we *could* have had Josh Hamilton.

We had the #3 pick in the Rule 5 draft. The Reds asked us to trade them that pick. We said yes. We just as easily could have said “Well, thanks Cincy, but we’re going to see how Hamilton works out for us.”

It was pretty clear at that point that Hamilton was taking his rehab efforts very seriously, as he’d thrown himself pretty heavily into religion and straight-edge sobriety for a (Narron-free) year at that point. And, after a year in the Reds’ employ – primarily spent on the DL and away from Narron anyway, he was sent to Texas, where he has continued to live drug-free.

The Reds didn’t want Hamilton because they thought the presence of Narron would help Hamilton’s sobriety.

They wanted Hamilton because Narron, a family friend, knew that Hamilton was sober and was willing to take a chance on him.

I wish that the Cubs had shown a similar faith in the guy – getting Josh Vitters with one #3 pick, and Josh Hamilton with the other, would have made the 2006 season worthwhile.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hamilton is not some sober hero

He’s been caught on camera drinking.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Sep 22, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

So have I.

Obviously, there is a big difference between drinking and shooting up.

That said, Hamilton took his “relapse” very seriously, and immediately reported it to the Rangers — because he believes that it’s a slippery slope, and that by getting drunk, he put himself in a position where he’d start asking for cocaine.

As for the use of the term “hero” – well, he’s just a baseball player. And even though he brought the evils he’s overcome upon himself, he has kicked a very serious drug habit and rebuilt his life, and saved his marriage and his family, which is pretty “heroic” by any standard.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's no way anyone could have predicted...

… that Hamilton, who had never played above A ball, would have been successful the way he was that year.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fortunately, predictions were unnecessary.

The Cubs would have paid a small sum for Hamilton, and he started hitting from the get-go.

You bring him to spring training, where, as we all know, he hit .410 with power, and you go from there. If he had failed, he would have been Tampa’s problem.

Besides, didn’t we break camp with Angel Pagan or some such that year? We had spots on the 25-man roster being taken up by Murton, Craig Monroe, Pagan, and a host of other useless players throughout that season. The Cubs could have easily found room for Josh Hamilton.

It was a totally zero-risk move. And as we’ve seen, the reward was remarkably high. Hendry should have taken the opportunity, but he passed. And it was the Cubs’ loss.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay but hindsight is 20/20.

Maybe he comes to Chicago, takes one look at Rush Street, and falls back into his old habits. Maybe Texas was the perfect fit for him. Who knows. Certainly not you or I.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Or Lou sits him on the bench

and Hamilton decides to hit Rush Street. In Piniella’s first season when the Cubs were supposed to be contenders hey were not going to gamble with a recovering drug addict.

by rlpete on Sep 22, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

In that case, he's Tampa's problem

It’s also kind of insulting to Hamilton to say that he couldn’t possibly have avoided drugs in Chicago. He’s pretty fanatical about religion these days.

Also, the Cubs were coming off of the horrendous 2006 season. “Supposed to be contenders”, I suppose, but expectations were certainly tempered.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not insulting at all.

He has relaspe before, so that shows he’s not perfect. The temptations living in Chicago may have been too much for him.

You don’t know Hamilton personally. You don’t know how the situation would have been affected had he been in a different city, different organization, different teammates, etc…

You and I both don’t know. So stop with the “what-if” games because you’re going to drive yourself crazy.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm only arguing that the Cubs could have had Hamilton.

Al continues to say that the Cubs could never have had Josh Hamilton, when that’s simply not the case.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it is the case.

They never had any intention of taking him, and as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Reds never revealed to the Cubs who they were going to take when they received the pick.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

No Al, D98 is technically correct...

You are looking at this from AFTER the Cubs agreed to make a deal with the Reds for their pick. You’re forgetting that the Cubs could have never decided to make a deal with the Reds. If they had wanted to use the pick for themselves, they could have. But they didn’t see anybody that they wanted.

So technically, D98 is correct. It’s a bit of a hollow point, as there isn’t any reason to believe that Hamilton would have turned out this well, and the Cubs already had a crowded OF. But it’s true that the Cubs could indeed have had Hamilton.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Basically, your first sentence sums it up...

“they never had any intention of taking him…”

That pretty much implies that the Cubs could have had him. They chose not to use the pick for themselves and sold it to the Reds (who then said “take Hamilton, please”). Only at that point were they unable to have Hamilton.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

and who would he have replaced on the Cubs roster?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 22, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we traded Josh Hamilton for David Patton?

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

(I’m joking)

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Sep 22, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, I understand that. What I'm saying is, why make that deal?!

Yes, once the Cubs entered into a deal to trade Hamilton, that was that.

However, what was the downside to refusing said offer, drafting Hamilton, and inviting him to spring training? Absolutely nothing.

Especially when you consider the Cubs’ deficiencies in the OF – especially CF – going into that season.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs didn't trade Hamilton.

They traded their draft pick. It wasn’t until the actual draft day that the Reds told the Cubs to pick Hamilton for them.

by Clark Addison on Sep 22, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

BINGO!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo... how?

The Cubs literally traded Hamilton, in that they drafted him, and traded him to Cincy. So that post is wrong on a literal level.

They had also “indirectly” traded Hamilton, in that they’d agreed to let Cincy use their pick in exchange for $50K, knowing full well that Hamilton was on the board, was healthy, and had passed about a year’s worth of drug tests.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs most certainly DID trade Hamilton.

The Cubs selected Hamilton. Then they traded him to Cincy. They didn’t trade a draft pick, because trading draft picks is not allowed in MLB.

Second, the Cubs knew that they had the #3 pick, and they knew that Hamilton was available in the draft. In unconditionally trading away their draft pick, they traded away the right to select Josh Hamilton.

Seriously, the leaps in logic here are astounding. The Cubs traded Josh Hamilton, in every sense of the term.

Including literally, in that they entered into an MLB trade in which Hamilton was traded from the Cubs to the Reds.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh......

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're going to have to be more specific.

When Al says

 "I might have to (add the “true story” to the sidebar) if people keep saying “we could have had Josh Hamilton”, someone has to set the record straight.

The Cubs could have had Josh Hamilton. No one can know what would have happened to Hamilton’s career if we’d kept him, but to say that the Cubs never could have had him is simply 100% false.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

No, he's not...

Hamilton hasn’t even reached arbitration eligibility yet (I think he might reach that point this year). If the Rangers offer him arbitration, he remains a Ranger. But he’s not a free agent.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh perfect

As long as they take the contract, I’d be happy. They can just HAVE him. The Cubs wouldn’t need anyone in return. It would be addition by subtraction.

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Sep 22, 2009 12:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Nobody is taking Bradley's contract

The Cubs have made sure of that. The only question if the Cubs will eat 90% or 100%. The Cubs will then be paying him for the next two years to play for another team because for league minimum of $400,000 there are several teams that
would take him on.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Sep 22, 2009 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Rangers might take it...

… as noted above, if the Cubs took Michael Young’s deal. That would help the Rangers financially, and also give the Cubs a good-hitting shortstop.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Michael Young is a terrible shortstop

I don’t understand how people here can constantly bash Theriot for his defense and then promote the idea of trading for a SS that is far below average defensively.

Young would be a better hitter than Theriot, but I doubt that’s worth the $13 million or so that Young makes for the next 4 years, especially when you consider he had a career year he’s not likely to replicate.

Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain

by dr stabbingworth on Sep 22, 2009 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Young's offense might make up for the defense.

In any case, it’s at least a possible way of getting rid of Bradley’s contract and at least getting a productive hitter in return.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

But at a significant salary increase over even more years

SS is one of the few cost -controlled spots in the lineup that allows us to blow huge amounts of money on other free agents. Unless Rickets is feeling really generous in a bad economy, the Cubs are going to need to do some pretty fancy money-maneuvering.

Life is parallel to hell but I must maintain

by dr stabbingworth on Sep 22, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

But does he really need to replicate this season?

He’s still a career .798 OPS hitter with three .800+ seasons and a couple other seasons close to .800. That’s a lot more production than we’re ever likely to get out of Ryan Theriot. The defense is a big downside, though.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, he has 4 .800+ OPS seasons

Two of which (2005 and 95% of 2009) are almost .900 seasons.

And as for defense, that last SS season was a -5.4 UZR with like 11 errors, and a pretty great 113 doubleplays. Young’s offense goes a long way toward mitigating that deficiency, such as it is.

Of course, the Cubs would probably be better off with Theriot at SS and Young at 2B, rather than the other way around.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, well, I wasn't counting this season because it's not over yet.

But, yeah, he’ll likely finish with another .800+ OPS. Is he done for the year with the hamstring thing?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

He should be.

He came back last week and re-aggravated his hammy pull. The Rangers aren’t doing anything – why not shut it down?

That said, he’s running in the OF before each game – I think he wants to return.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hm, it's an idea worth looking into.

Young’s offensive numbers look fantastic this year – he’s flirting with a .900 OPS at the moment. A couple downsides, though:

1) At least according to UZR, he is not a good defensive shortstop. He actually appears worse, much worse, than Ryan Theriot. Perhaps his offense could make up for it, though.

Plus, with trusty Andres Blanco around, maybe his defensive shortcomings could be mitigated. Young’s been playing third base this season, too (though not particularly well, per UZR). Still, he could serve in that capacity if Jeff Baker wasn’t available for some reason.

2) He appears to be having some serious hamstring issues at the moment. Presumably, he could get that under control by next season, but I thought I’d point it out.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Plus he is a year removed

from his last season playing SS badly. I’d look at him for 2B before SS.

by rlpete on Sep 22, 2009 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that may be the best solution

Careerwise, his best (or least bad) UZR numbers are at second base. Of course, that would likely leave Theriot at SS, which would aggravate a lot of people.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

But, at least you'd have an offensive upgrade...

… AND get rid of Bradley’s contract.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

If the Cubs can upgrade the offense with Young

and improve the clubhouse by subtracting Bradley, I’m all for it. Of course, Young isn’t left-handed, which hurts the chances of making this happen.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I believe it was.

But what if (and this is the scary part) the Cubs still feel that they have to have that left-handed bat in the middle of the order?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Judging by Lou's refusal...

…to just put Dome and Bradley at the top of the lineup and leave them there, I think it’s still an issue. Well, theoretically at least. He obviously can’t put Bradley there anymore.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would argue Lou's insistence on having Hoffpauir play this month

over Fox is another example of it.

It sounds weird to say, but maybe if the Cardinals show that you can win a playoff series with 4 straight RHBs in the middle of the lineup, the Cubs would make an adjustment to their thinking.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've actually been thinking of...

…looking at some of the typical lineups of other MLB teams to try and get some sense of whether other managers are also fixated on having a lefty (or, in some cases, righty) bat break up the middle of their lineups. I mean, I understand Lou’s thinking and, on a theoretical level, I agree with him. It is good to have a lefty bat break things up. But if you don’t have that guy on your team, just give it up and move on.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a historical perspective on Lou

His teams have found the most success when he’s had that lefty bat to break things up.

On the 1990 Reds, it was Hal Morris; with the Seattle teams of the late 90’s/early 2000’s, he had John Olerud.

For the 2008 Cubs, it was an outlier in terms of Lou’s successful lineups; even the 2007 Cubs had Jacque Jones.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

So your saying he can't adapt?

Because clearly you don’t NEED to have a LH hitter breaking up the RH hitters. Just because he’s had that in the past doesn’t mean it has to be.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

He can adapt.

But after last year’s failure in the playoffs, what did Lou want? A left-handed bat in the middle of the order, same as he had in Cincinnati and Seattle.

Now, he’s adapted along the way I’m sure, but he fell back with a security blanket in his offseason desires.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it'd be nice to have a LH power bat...

but I wouldn’t go forcing square pegs into a round hole just to try to have a LH power bat. You play the cards you’re dealt the best you can.

You should devise the lineup the best you can given the parts. You shouldn’t try to fit the parts into some ideal image of a lineup.

What he’s doing isn’t terribly different than what Baker was doing batting Patterson at leadoff because he’s fast and Perez second because he’s a slap-hitting middle infielder.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

He'd be an outstanding acquisition - especially for Bradley.

Young could play 2B, 3B, and in a pinch, can play SS. He’s having what could be considered a “career year” right now, if it weren’t for his equally outstanding 2005. Looking at his career, it seems that his mediocre 2008 is the outlier.

If this is even remotely possible, I’d throw in some additional players to get it done.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know I said I was done talking about him, but permit me a trade idea

Milton could have success playing with the Yankees, and they could take his contract no problem. I’m not joking. There isn’t a physically bigger clubhouse, a more stable group of leaders, and more media distractions (A-Rod). I think it just might work.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Sep 22, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Totally agree - this is a point I've made a few times recently.

I think the Yankees could insulate Milton well in their massive organization (and clubhouse). He’d be a small fish in a big pond and could serve as more of a role player (DH, occasional OF) much like Nick Swisher’s been doing. The question is: Would they take him?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well they need an OF this offseason

Matt Holliday would probably be their first choice, but perhaps they could be convinced that Milton could be a cheaper alternative. He could fill Damon’s spot in the 2 spot of the lineup keeping a high OBP guy in front of the big boppers. That porch in RF probably adds 5 homers, and the DH spot affords him some “offdays”

Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Swisher, Sabathia, Texiera are all guys who can help control Bradley if needed.

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Sep 22, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

the problem is

John Daniels has Jim Hendry by the balls because of Hendry’s silly over-reaction to comments made to the press. TEX won’t happen unless there is a swap of bad contract for bad contract.

NYY might be the logical fit because money is not an issue for that franchise. Probably wouldn’t even need anything back – PTBNL would suffice. Just take the contract. Should make for Hot Stove fun this off-season.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, if the Yanks would just take the contract...

…that would probably be the best fit of all. Of course, the Cubs would then have to scramble to figure out how to replace Milton’s production in the lineup. But, financially speaking, that would be ideal.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

if it freed up $10MM

Hendry might be able to find a suitable replacement.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

if they trade him

I hope it’s to the AL. I just don’t want to see him against us.

Rangers would be a great destination.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 9:14 AM CDT reply actions  

Are you kidding me?!

I’m not scared of this guy what-so-ever. The Cubs fans would be in his head all day long as an opposing player.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

to each his own

I’d rather not face him and let him play in the AL.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tom Hicks,

owner of the Rangers is in financial stress

ARLINGTON— Rangers owner Tom Hicks said on Saturday afternoon that his ballclub is continuing to conduct business as usual under normal budgetary constraints, without any interference from Major League Baseball and without being affected by the potential sale of the team.

Hicks said that the Rangers asked for a $15 million line of credit earlier this summer as an advance toward future revenue coming in at the end of the season. He said the Rangers have taken advantage of only less than half that amount and that it has not had a negative effect on the club’s operations.

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 22, 2009 9:33 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, he is trying to sell the team

Coming out and saying “Yeah, we’re losing a ton of money!” isn’t the best way to attract potential buyers.

by Big D on Sep 22, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs will get nothing for Bradley

In fact, they will have to eat part of his contract. There is no way that the Rangers would give up any top prospect for him. None.

Perhaps they would want to get out of Young’s contract, but what would the Cubs do with him? I’m not too keen on having him move back to SS. I’d rather the Cubs go for a speedy top of the order guy.

Don’t parlay the $20M of bad Bradley contract into $80M for someone else.

by jerry morales rules on Sep 22, 2009 9:36 AM CDT reply actions  

I'm not on that "speedy leadoff guy" bandwagon.

Speed is overrated. Let’s get guys who can GET ON BASE in the first place.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

(Bites tongue)

Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.

by nji232 on Sep 22, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

ISWYDT

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 22, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

We have some of those guys...

Fukudome and Bradley to name two. Even if/when Bradley is traded, Fukudome is still a high-OBP guy. But instead of using either of those guys, Piniella instead prefers to use Theriot there.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know that seems to be the sentiment these days

but look at the way this year’s playoff teams are constructed, in terms of leadoff hitters

Phillies – Rolins
Dodgers – Furcal, Pierre
Cardinals – Lugo
Rockies – Fowler
Angels – Figgins
Tigers – Granderson
Yankees – Jeter
Red Sox – Ellsbury

All of these guys could be called “speed” guys. All of them, except Lugo and Furcal, have more than 20 SB, and they certainly did earlier in their careers.

And the last time the Cubs won a playoff game, they had a speed guy, Kenny Lofton, leading off.

Obviously, the architects of successful baseball teams do not agree that you don’t need a speed guy leading off.

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd argue that it has less to do with speed at the top...

and more to do with production in the middle of the order.

I’m not saying that speed doesn’t help, but all of the teams that score a bunch of runs (the Tigers are pretty bad offensively, actually) have a bunch of mashers in the middle of the order.

Also, the Cardinals should be omitted from your example. They’ve only had Lugo for a little or than month or so.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, the Cardinals got Lugo

from the Red Sox on July 22nd, so it’s been two months. And that is about the time the Cardinals started on their tear. They were 51-46 on July 22nd and are 37-17 since. Of course, they also acquired Holliday in there, but, as all BCB readers know, he can’t hit away from Coors Field.

Of course, the argument could (and should) be made that the pressure the speed guys put on teams, results in more fastballs to hit for the middle of the order guys, which contributes to their production.

But, hey, what do the Angels, Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox, et al know.

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a possibility, sure...

I’m just saying that I wouldn’t necessarily attribute it to the speed. I am pretty darn sure that having speed is not what has causes Pujols and Holliday to hit the cover off the ball. I’d say St. Louis’s surge has had a LOT more to do with Matt Holliday and the phenomenal starting pitching than Lugo.

Again – I’m not saying you’re definitely wrong here. I’m just not sure speed is as key as you seem to be attributing it. Could be, and it’s a reasonable theory, but it’s hard to disentangle because all of those teams also have/had very strong middle of the order.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure if you asked

Ryan, Ludwick, Pujols, Holliday, et al, they would tell you that Lugo putting pressure on the defense has changed the opponents pitch selection as well as getting them more strikes to hit. That is how it works.

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I'm pretty sure that that would be lip service...

considering that Pujols and Holliday have both hit just fine with and without Lugo or another big speed guy in front of them.

by SouthernCub on Sep 23, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Another problem with your theory...

is that nearly EVERY team has a speed guy at the top of the order. So it’s not really a separating argument to say that the good teams have speed at the top.

While on one hand you can argue that is evidence supporting your point, one can counter that it is more accurately just evidence of tradition trumping experimentation. Remember – 1B couldn’t bat second in the old days, and shortstops needed to be slap-hitting little guys.

The point is that it’s easy to say “look – all of the good teams have a speed guy at the top” when the reality is that all of teams (good and bad) have speed at the top. So it’s not so much a sign of a good team as it is a sign of a team. By the similar token, I could say that all of the good teams use five-man rotations.

Is speed the cause? Maybe. But it also may be that speed is just an innocent bystander while something else is the cause, like having a bunch of really productive power hitters throughout the lineup.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

No that's not true

 a lot of teams do not have the speed guy. Cubs, D’Backs, Padres (before Sept. callup), Brewers, Royals, Blue Jays, etc, really don’t have speed guys leading off.

In fact, one thing you can say about a lot of teams that have struggled this year is that they either have been unable to find a quality lead off guy…experimenting with several different players, or the leadoff guy they had got hurt, i.e., Reyes with the Mets.

A good case in is point the Padres. They posted one of the worst records in baseball up to September 1, while lacking a true leadoff guy. Then they called up Durango, an extreme speed guy and ever since they have been one of the hottest teams in the NL. Go figure.

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Durango has started one game. To credit him with the Padres’ resurgence is just silly.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 23, 2009 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

You named 6 of 30 teams - some of which are wrong...

Even then, that’s like 80% of the league has a speed guy at the top of their lineup. That includes some really good teams and some really bad teams (Astros, Nationals, Cincy, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Oakland, Cleveland).

Also, I’d point out that Theriot is as much of a speed guy at the top as Jeter at this point, and moreso than Lugo. So I’d say you need to either cross the Cubs off your “no speed guy” list or consider the Yankees and Cardinals examples of good teams without speed at the top. And the Royals have Bloomquist, who has 23 SB this year batting up top for them. So yeah, they actually have a speed guy too.

And as Al noted, the Padres are NOT a good case study for you. You can’t be the cause of a big run if you don’t actually play. Sheesh.

by SouthernCub on Sep 23, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Slight edit...

Theriot is not as good a baserunner obviously, but he’s a “speed” guy in the 20 SB criteria you set forth.

The more important point is that 80+ percent of teams in baseball (including many of the absolute worst teams) have a speed guy at the top. And of the teams you list as not having speed guys, three of them (Zona, Milwaukee, and Toronto) are above league-average in terms of runs scored – better than many of those teams with the speed guys.

by SouthernCub on Sep 23, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, my error regarding Durango

is somewhat understandable as I saw him win two games recently against the D’Backs with his wheels – both were games he didn’t start. But, he changed the games nonetheless.

But, hey, people make mistakes…like saying Lugo has only been with the Cardinals for a month. Sheesh yourself.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Theroit

has only led off 35 games this year for the Cubs. So, no, we don’t cross the Cubs off our no speed list.

The 6 teams I listed (I could’ve listed more) were only meant to illustrate that there is a correlation between teams that struggle offensively and the lack of a true speed threat at the top of the order – just as it is demonstrable that teams that make the playoffs do have such a threat.

This is intuitively obvious, even if you can’t see it.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

This should be obvious

but since you don’t seem to get it, I’ll point it out. I’m not saying that having a speed guy leading off makes you a good team. But, as looking at the playoff teams from this year, and from past years show, it clearly is a key component of a successful team.

And just as clearly, a lot of bad teams are at least partly bad because of the lack of same.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right, but...

… I don’t think the Cubs should go into the offseason thinking, “This is the problem and getting such a guy will fix it”.

Because the last time they went into the offseason with that sort of thinking (i.e. “We lost a playoff series because of ONE problem and this is the ONLY way to fix it”), disaster ensued.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 23, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you

but I have heard Lou mention a couple of times that the lack of speed is something that he considers a weakness of this particular team, and I don’t disagree with that, either.

I heard an interesting stat the other day. The Cubs are the WORST team in baseball in taking the extra base, i.e., going from first to third on a single. That is very telling. That is something the Angels have historically been really good at and it wins them a lot of games.

If the Cubs can acquire some speed while addressing other needs (such as SS) I think it would behoove them to do so.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think you need edit down that list a bit.

Lugo really isn’t a speed guy anymore and Jeter certainly isn’t either. In fact, Jeter only bolsters the point Al and I are trying to make – just put your high OBP guys (was watching the Yankees-Angels game last night and Jeter’s OBP is sick) at the top and don’t worry about speed. That said, OBVIOUSLY, if you have a guy with decent to good OBP and speed (Ellsbury, Figgins) he’d be a natural choice to lead off. But too many times we see Corey Pattersons and Willy Taverases – or, uh, Ryan Theriots – leading off only because they have wheels.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 23, 2009 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Jeter

is 27 out of 32 in SB this year, and besides, my point was more about guys who put pressure on a team’s defense, which Jeter and Lugo both still do, even at this stage in their careers.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow, surprising.

But I still think high OBP, a high number of pitches-per-plate-appearance and smart baserunning (which is probably behind Jeter’s SB success rate) are more important than speed.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 23, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

dump the word speed then. What I am really trying to describe is a guy that can get on base via his wheels and who put pressure on the defense. Foot speed is a component of this, but so is intelligence on the base paths and baseball IQ. Knowing when to drag a bunt hit, for instance…and being able to execute it.

Everyone who follows baseball at all knows the dynamic I am describing. Nitpicking stuff to try to argue that it doesn’t exist is just goofy.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting

you mention Willy Tavares. Um, who was leadoff man for the Rockies when they made their one and only appearance in the World Series?

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

The guy with the .367 OBP, that's who.

He hasn’t been that guy since – even though he’s still fast.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 23, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

and how did he manage the .367 OBP? By leading the majors with 37 bunt hits, that’s how.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

No

actually, I think he has led the majors in bunt hits something like 4 of the past 5 years. But, the 37 he had in 2007 was, by far, his high water mark.

The main reason his OBP has plummeted in that his batting average fell. From 2007 to 2008 he went from .321 to .251. This year it dropped to .235, plus his BB total is half what it was in 2008. I don’t get to see Taveres that much, but first of all, he has only played in 98 games this year, so I am guessing he has been hurt. Secondly, it sounds like teams have adjusted to him and he needs to also adjust. Plus, we know Dusty Baker is not a big fan of the Base on Balls, not even from his leadoff man.

by azjazzman on Sep 23, 2009 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well...

….while I think I probably agree with you, the Cubs would essentially take on an extra $44 million if you did a Milton for Young trade.

Young owed $64 million over four years. Bradley owed $20 million over 2 years.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Looking only at the two years remaining on Bradley's deal...

… it’s $32 million for Young, $21 million for Bradley, or about $5.5 million per year over the next 2 years (then $32m more for 2012 and 2013, admittedly).

For that you get a better hitter and fill an infield hole. What’s wrong with that?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is that really the best way to spend $43 M?

The Cubs have the option of just losing the remaining $21M and doing with the other $22M as they please.

by jerry morales rules on Sep 22, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

SS/2B with .900 OPS don't grow on trees.

There are definitely worse places to spend that kind of money.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

yep

Bradley, Theriot, Marshall, and Vitters for Young, Millwood, and Kinsler?

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, they're never throwing Kinsler into any deals.

And I’m not even convinced that they’re willing to trade Young.

But I’d do Bradley + midlevel prospect for Young.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

they have financial probs

so you take out 2 of their largest deals, replace it with one, move a prospect and add Kinsler (due a huge contract jump in arbitration). More fantasy than reality, I guess.

Carzier things have been done. I think Hendry is going to have to be very creative.

It’s probably more because I want Theriot gone.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

In general, yes.

But in this case, you’re still trying to win now, plus getting rid of a bad contract.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Normally...

…nothing. But with all the backloaded contracts that we have, I’m not sure it’s the best idea. Baker seems to be a cheaper solution to the 2B hole.

Plus that’s assuming that either Theriot or Young would be okay moving to 2B.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Theriot would do what the organization asked him to.

Not sure he’d be happy about it – as I still believe being a starting SS holds a certain amount of prestige that guys don’t want to give up. But I think he’d move to 2B if asked. Not sure about Young.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I figured someone would say that.

And I’m not a stats wizard, but I believe Theriot is considered a better defender than Young.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not.

I was just saying Theriot would probably move to second base if asked. As I mention (somewhere) above, putting young at second base would probably be the ideal solution. Given the fact that he can play third base, too, he wouldn’t be all that different from…hey…Mark DeRosa.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's try this again.

I’m not: I was just saying Theriot would probably move to second base if asked. As I mention (somewhere) above, putting Young at second base would probably be the ideal solution. Given the fact that he can play third base, too, he wouldn’t be all that different from…hey…Mark DeRosa.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by daver on Sep 22, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ah okay. I thought you were suggesting that.

I agree about Theriot doing what’s best for the team, he seems like that kind of guy.

As for the comparison to DeRo…can Young turn water into wine?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Sep 22, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Young can't do that.

But hold a “Fishes and Loaves” Night at the park and see what he can do…

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Suddenly it's not just a promo for the first 10,000 people in the park

Courtesy of Young and Baker, all 40,000 get fishes and loaves now…

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

With a Comcast Sports Net logo pasted on them!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

This could happen.

Someone get the Marketing Department on the phone.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Bill Potter on Sep 22, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd be glad to downgrade at SS defensively

as a .900 OPS versus a .722 OPS will outweigh the defensive metric.

At SS, I want a SS who catches all the routine ones and makes a few extraordinary ones. Young is certainly an average defender (reliable) and way above average offensive player.

by socalbob on Sep 22, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, young moved off SS this year.

He’s currently a 3B. But he can play 2B and SS, too. None of them particularly well, but a .900 OPS makes up for a multitude of sins.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Sep 22, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I would think a Bradley-Millwood deal would be more likely

Not saying I want it, but Millwood’s 12 million option vested last night. this is his first decent year since 2006, but it’s the sort of deal that Hendry may have to take back. Even so, Hendry may have to kick back the difference in contract values.

"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin

by davidalanu on Sep 22, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions  

the cubs are good in the pitching department

The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:

Why?

by jesus christos on Sep 22, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll be more impressed

when Rangers GM Jon Daniels says he would welcome Bradley back. After all, it was Daniels that had to restrain Bradley from storming the KC broadcast booth, and of course Daniels was the one that let Bradley walk after the 2008 season.

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 3:05 PM CDT reply actions  

IIRC...

… Daniels was willing to have Milton back on a one-year deal.

Which, in retrospect, he should have taken.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Sep 22, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

The one year offer

was a token one. Daniels and the Rangers offered Bradley arbitration knowing there was no way Bradley would take it and that way they would get a compensatory draft pick.

Even before the statement by Ron Washington, Buster Olney reported that the Rangers were not interested in Bradley. Who do you think told him that?

You are saying Bradley should have taken a one year, $7-8M deal over one for 3/$30M if he stays healthy? How does that make any sense?

by azjazzman on Sep 22, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I won't begrudge Bradley for taking the $30 million deal...

With his injury history, he simply HAD to cash in on his big year. Taking a one-year deal and risking another serious injury (or a down-year offensively) would have been a huge risk. It could have cost him $15-20 million.

Given his injury history and his personal history, this was probably the best financial offer he could have ever hoped for and he took it.

by SouthernCub on Sep 22, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice find Daver

Wow, there’s a myriad of paths the Cubs could take here.

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2009 8:12 AM CDT reply actions  

I find it interesting

that as of last night, the Dallas newspaper didn’t pick up on this “story”. Nada.

You would think….

by azjazzman on Sep 24, 2009 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

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