Shark Homers, But Cubs Lose To Brewers; Milton Bradley "Apologizes"
by Al Yellon on Sep 24, 2009 7:51 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintThe CSN production crew showed, at one point during last night's telecast, video pointing out the differences in Jeff Samardzija's motion in his first, disastrous, start on August 12, and last night. Back in August he wasn't bringing the ball fully back, more or less "pushing" it to the plate; last night he had more of a full extension, hiding the ball behind his back briefly before delivery. The results were better; he gave up only five hits and a walk in five innings and threw 54 strikes in 82 pitches. He had good velocity (hitting 97 on the CSN and stadium speed pitch meters) and his breaking ball looked better; the lack of a good breaking pitch has been one of the biggest criticisms of Samardzija becoming a solid major league pitcher.
Unfortunately, two of those hits were home runs; the one by Prince Fielder came with a man on base and the homer Shark allowed to Jody Gerut was the difference in a 3-2 Cubs loss to the Brewers that reduced their elimination number to 4.
There's no shame in giving up a home run to Fielder; Samardzija became the 39th different pitcher to allow one to him this year. Gerut? Not so much, although the Chicago-area native has had a good September (.327/.377/.551, with 3 HR in 49 AB, two of the HR off Cubs pitching) in an attempt to let baseball people know that he'd like a job in 2010.
Meanwhile, Samardzija's HR cut the deficit to 2-1 and Bobby Scales' RBI double in the 7th made it 3-2 after Gerut's HR. But once again, the Cubs could not get a runner home from scoring position with less than two out; Scales did make it to third but Felipe Lopez made a nice catch of a floater that Ryan Theriot nearly got into right field, and that was the end of the Cubs' best chance to tie the game. Credit also must be given to Brewers' journeyman starter Chris Narveson, who struck out ten.
Unfortunately, the Milton Bradley merry-go-round continues for another day; yesterday he issued an apology for his recent actions in a written statement, which read:
"I chose Chicago as a free agent," Bradley said in a statement, "because I wanted to be part of finally bringing a championship to Cubs fans. I expected to have a great season and I am deeply disappointed by my performance and the team's struggles. I played every game with everything that I had and wanted to desperately win.
"My frustration and disappointment boiled over and I said and did certain things that I regret," he said. "In hindsight, I wish that I had handled certain things differently and I apologize for those things that did not work out for the better.
"The air has been cleared," he said, "and we all want to move on and look forward to better days."
Wow. There's so much wrong with that statement that I can't even really begin to dissect it, except for this: it's yet another example of the 21st Century Celebrity Apology, which is vetted by a lawyer and carefully crafted to say nothing while appearing to apologize. Look at what he actually apologized for:
I apologize for those things that did not work out for the better.
What on Earth does that mean? No specifics, no people mentioned, no one specifically apologized to? All of a sudden "the air has been cleared"? I'm tired of seeing these sorts of apologies, which basically boil down to "I'm sorry you caught me being an idiot, please forgive me so I can keep making these enormous sums of money."
Here's what a real Milton Bradley apology should have looked like:
I truly did want to become a Chicago Cub to bring the team, the organization and the best fans in baseball the championship they have longed for, for over a century. My performance was beneath my own expectations for myself and I wish I had done better on the field and the team had won more games and we were headed to the playoffs.
Recently, I said some things to the Daily Herald's Bruce Miles that were said in anger and frustration and I want to apologize to those I offended.
I apologize to my teammates. I said I worked "harder" than anyone on the team. This is not true. Every single member of the Cubs works hard to better his performance and win, and I don't want them to think I didn't appreciate them as teammates. I am sorry.
I apologize to Jim Hendry. He put his faith in me by investing $30 million of the team's money for me to perform, and I let him down.
I apologize to the entire Cubs organization. I told Bruce Miles it wasn't a positive environment, and that they haven't won for 100 years because of "negativity". That certainly is not true of all the dedicated people on the coaching staff, the scouting staff, and the rest of the people who work hard every day in the office. They all want to win. I apologize to each and every one of them.
I apologize to the media. I'm a private person and sometimes I don't react well to some of the questions you ask. But that doesn't mean, as I told Bruce Miles, that you are "bashing" me. I know you have a job to do, just as I do. I am sorry.
I apologize to all Cubs fans. I wanted to win for you very badly, but I failed and because I was upset at myself, I took it out on you. There were a few bad fans who made nasty and uncalled-for remarks to me, but I don't want you to think that I believe you are all that way. I am sorry.
Now that would be a real apology and if Milton -- or, for that matter, any athete or celebrity caught doing wrong -- would issue such an apology, I think people would go a long way toward forgiving him.
But the "apology" he did issue? Nothing but cover-my-butt. The Cubs may have to eat a significant amount of Bradley's contract to move him, or possibly even release him and pay off the entire deal. It will be an expensive lesson learned for Jim Hendry -- who should have seen this coming -- and the organization as they move into the Tom Ricketts era.
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Shark homers! And seems to have pitched pretty well.
What’s the world coming to? ;)
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
I liked your apology much better Al
Ever think of becoming a spin doctor for political gain?
Scales surprised me with his RBI double. I really wish there were a place for him on ANY MLB team. It seems he has gained some trust of this organization and must be an all around good guy. The players in the dugout seem to enjoy him. I wish him well, I just don’t see how he will make our roster next year.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Scales, oddly...
…. seems to be much better off the bench than when he starts.
He’s 7-for-11 this year as a PH, with 2 doubles, a triple and 2 HR.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree. he may have a role next year as a supersub-pinch hitter
He can play many positions and coming off the bench does not seem to bother him.
The key will be for Lou not to over use him. He reminds me a bit of Lenny Harris.
Not Lenny when he played for the Cubs……but everywhere else. He was an older guy who could play several positions and could PH from the left side. Scales has him beat in the speed department.
Just a thought.
Seriously?
I would throw up a little in my mouth if Bobby Scales is on the Opening Day roster next season.
by Damen Jackson on Sep 24, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions
As the 25th man?
He’d be OK as the 25th guy. Can PH, play 3 or 4 positions, pinch-run. Useful in limited situations.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
When you consider our 25th man until Sept. 1 was Miles
Scales is an upgrade.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Maybe as the 25th man...
But I’d still throw up a little bit in my mouth over it.
And seriously, Bobby Scales can’t play three or four positions. The only spot that I would ever be comfortable with him defensively is second base; maybe third if I’m desperate. It’s shameful to watch Lou send the guy into the outfield, especially when it would be much wiser to see if Jake Fox — who could actually have a major league career — could man those corner spots.
by Damen Jackson on Sep 24, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Back before the days of 12
and 13 man pitching staffs, such a player would be really useful. Now, even though they might be more even useful, I don’t know if there’s a roster spot for him.
Of course, we could realize that 12 pitchers is at least one too many.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
That was our
25th man to start this season. Scales is a much better player than that, Scales can play more than one position, and can actually hit a baseball!
back to the apology(s)
An apology is actually an atonement (fairly current moment for many now), but understand what Bradley’s prepared statement is actually saying or not saying.
An apology is an acknowledgment of an individual’s own actions, it takes personal responsibilities and acknowledges damage, hurt and accountability, furthermore the stuff that Miles reported blamed everyone else for Bradley’s outcomes and his reactionary actions.
This was no apology, it was a professional move to try to save a revenue producer (the agents’ and possibly the player), for if I were the Cubs I might say that Bradley’s published statements voided his contract—-they were detrimental to the team and the organization.
Even your version doesn’t go far enough for it doesn’t offer a remedy, an acknowledgment that the behavior must be corrected by some overt change action.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Actually, Gathright can probably play all three OF spots.
He’s also likely faster than Scales and I assume we don’t want to get into the jumping thing.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Problem...
… Lou never really used him as a defensive replacement. He played in 20 games as a Cub, started one, played in the field in 10 others.
The Cubs could have gotten the same thing from Felix Pie, and then Pie could have filled in when injuries hit.
The Gathright signing was completely pointless.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not disagreeing there
I’m generally a supporter of Hendry’s, but the moves I most disagreed with this off-season were the Wuertz trade, and the Pie and Cedeno (essentially) for Heilman trade, which in turn necessitated the Gathright and Miles acquisitions.
I’d much rather have had Cedeno, Pie, and Weurtz than Gathright, Miles, and Heilman. Granted all those moves look worse in part due to hindsight.
I think I'd have rather had those three BEFORE those deals were made.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep.
Let’s hope someone will take Miles’ contract. It’s possible they might be able to throw him in on a Bradley deal, depending on the size of the other “bad” contract they have to take in return.
Heilman’s better performance lately probably gives him some trade value.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't miss Cedeno at all
He might be the dumbest player in MLB. Plus he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire this season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 24, 2009 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I would not be surprised to someday read
that Cedeno has tried to run the bases clockwise.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Speed kills.
In Joey’s case, he wasn’t a good defensive replacement, couldn’t get on base, and was picked off as a pinch runner.
The first criteria is the 25th man has to either play defense, hit, or run the bases, be a rule 5 stash, or be too cheap to complain about. JG was none of these things, just unusable speed.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
unusuable speed
that’s a very good way to describe JG
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I still think Gathright WAS a good defensive replacement...
…though he certainly didn’t look that way in a Cubs uniform.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
He also WAS a good pinch runner. As a Cub, he made
Cedeno look like a wizard on the base paths.
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
But
When did gathright ever show this? All I can remember was him getting picked off, caught stealing, and striking out. The guy was a total bust. Cedeno was a bum though.
He really didn't get much playing time...
…and, when he did, he didn’t look good. But, as I recall, UZR gives him very high marks in centerfield – and he defintely has speed if you can figure out a way to get him on base.
Ha, I can’t believe it’s September and I’m still sticking up for Joey Gathright. What is wrong with me?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
the funny thing is
Gathright has a shot to be on the Red Sox postseason roster simply because he’s fast.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Unreal.
And how ’bout Chad Gaudin? Will the Yankees take him into the post?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
That's quite a path
dumpster → curb → playoffs
we’ll see though
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Some of the bloggers seem to want him on the roster
as the long-man.
That’d be a heckuva journey.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
The Merits of Dumpster Diving, by Chad Gaudin.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
he's no Dave Roberts
Joey had a rep as being on the decline with the glove, poor on base skills, and not a good base runner, despite the speed. He was actually pretty cheap for what he offered (warts and all) but, as with most of the dang team, underperformed.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Red Sox fans will liken him to Roberts, solely because of the speed, but it seems to me that Roberts had more “smarts” on the bases than Gathright.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
exactly
Freakin’ Yadi Molina is a better baserunner than Joey. Well, in some regards. Speed is speed, but knowing how to read a move, how to read an outfielder, how to read the ball of the bat, well, Joey’s results indicate those may not have been his strong points.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes when you're that fast you can get away with it.
I’m sure Gathright was able to do that until a certain time, which looks to be the Major League level.
Who knows, maybe the Sox have worked with him on some of the recognition-type issues he seemed to have.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Your apology is spot on, Al
And actually one that any reputable PR agent would issue. The first rule of countering bad PR is owning up, coming clean, and being honest about what went down. Anything else only exacerbates the problem and makes it larger — ala MB’s faux “apology.”
My guess is MB thinks he has absolutely nothing to apologize for but his entourage have convinced him that some statement is necessary. The “apology” is the most he would grudgingly oblige.
I liked Lou's statement in the paper
something to the effect of that’s nice, now we can move on. Very contrite. This chapter is over, turn the page.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I think you meant "concise", not "contrite".
Right? Lou doesn’t have to be contrite about this.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think MCF meant Lou was saying Milton's apology was concise.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
All of the above!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
He wont apologize for
anything more because he has nothing more to gain. He’s getting his money that why ‘the air has been cleared.’
Chicago
Cubs
We are the better CC.
by Zy Toro Young on Sep 24, 2009 8:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That's the usual disagreement between lawyers and public relations people.
The lawyers don’t want their client to admit to anything while the public relations specialists want to, to improve the client’s public image. Lawyers only care about the consequences (legal and monetary) and don’t care that much about the client’s public image.
Bradley’s apology looks like one a lawyer would suggest and draft.
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 24, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
If a lawyer didn't care about the public image
He would advise against any apology at all.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Sep 24, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
While the fantasy apology you wrote Al is great, it's never, ever gonna happen- from anyone.
Unfortunately, it seems few people ever admit guilt or take responsibility for their actions anymore. It’s the auto accident model. Admit nothing. Agree to nothing. Never, ever say “I’m at fault”. Contact your representatives and let them respond.
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
Where does he blame anyone but himself?
“I am deeply disappointed by my performance”
“I said and did certain things that I regret”
“I wish that I had handled certain things differently and I apologize for those things”
Seriously, how much more contrite does he need to be? You guys are ridiculous.
by Wreckard on Sep 24, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Bradley can do no right in Chicago
He has been thoroughly discredited and even his “I’m sorry’s” will be torn apart. Just the way it is.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
I cannot see how you can continue to defend this man.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Go ahead and start defending Bradley, Al
that’s how you’ll get Wreckard to slam him. It’s Pavlovian at this point
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
When was the last time you didn't take a contrarian point of view just to be "edgy"?
It’s tired now. Al says something. You say the opposite.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
My views are extremely consistent.
The notion that I’m somehow changing my views to play devil’s advocate around here is pretty laughable. It’s not my fault Al’s wrong about so many things.
You never answered my question: when was the last time you actually contributed something to a discussion around here? Your primary purpose around here seems to be to try and drive away the statistically-inclined posters, and fling personal attacks at the players like a monkey flinging feces. You’re the laziest poster on the board.
by Wreckard on Sep 24, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Drive away statistically-inclined posters?
Little old me??? ROFL!
Tell them to grow a pair.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I said try
I don’t think anti-intellectualism like yours is going to really bother anyone of the sort but that doesn’t seem to stop you from trying. Over and over again. With the same tired jokes and passive-agressive insults.
I have great respect for the stats guys
their lunch money spends real good.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
they help me with my math homework...
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 24, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I've really had enough with your cries of "anti-intellectualism".
No one here is doing that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sure they are
Yourself included. You backed off your stance, but Tim and Worf continue with ad hominem attacks on anyone that attempts to apply empirical measures to any topic around here.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It does, however...
… seem at times that Wreckard shows up here simply to take the opposite position to mine, no matter what it is, and calls me “wrong”.
We are all expressing our opinions here. That doesn’t make any of us “wrong”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
In this case, maybe
I don’t think he’s being devils advocate for giggles, but I would agree it’s an opinion on the sincerity. But this would be an exception.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Al you are one of the most prominent Cubs bloggers on the internet
You get interviewed by other SBN Blogs for the “Cubs viewpoint”. Your articles are linked to on prominent sites like Yahoo and The Daily Fix.
If I’m harder on you than on some of the other posters around here it’s because you represent Cubs fans in a very tangible way.
Frankly, sometimes you come across as someone who doesn’t do their homework. You put out a lot of opinions that not only aren’t based in fact but don’t hold up upon any inspection.
And I think this stems from something that I feel the need to constantly challenge you on, which is that you’ve set up this false dichotomy that there are somehow two legitimate opposing viewpoints: using stats vs using observation, as though these are two mutually exclusive ways to understand baseball.
The truth is that any decision making process involves both observation and fact-finding. You need to be both to evaluate something effectively. But people need to be able to realize that when the facts contradict their observations, the wrong thing to do is to just throw up your hands and say, “Well, they’re both equally legitimate, I guess I’ll go with my gut here!”
And maybe that’s too much to ask of the common fan, who just wants to be entertained. And if I thought you were the kind of person who took pride in their ignorance, like Worf for example, I wouldn’t bother. I’d think you were hopeless.
But you’re not a common fan; you’re a prominent blogger on a subject that I care greatly about. I think you’re a smart guy, and I think you want to be a better blogger and provide insights – which is why I’m often dumbfounded that you’re not willing to not only back up your observations but to actively challenge your own opinions.
So if I come across as harsh, I apologize for those things that did not come across better. I’m just trying to provide a viewpoint that I wish you were more open to, because you’d be a better blogger for it.
I have already said...
… that I am open to your viewpoint, presuming you are discussing the stat discussions we’ve had in recent days.
Simply taking the opposite position to mine, for what appears to be no other reason than just to do so, not so much.
I agree with the proposition that you can use statistics AND observation to analyze and understand baseball. There’s no question in my mind that’s both reasonable and necessary.
I’m happy to have you here because in general you present your points and back them up and don’t make personal attacks. Let’s keep it that way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
For the record
Simply taking the opposite position to mine, for what appears to be no other reason than just to do so, not so much.
This is absolutely not something I do. The majority of opinions you share go unchallenged by me either because I agree with them or don’t find them objectionable.
Let's keep it that way, then, and civil.
You do seem to be in the extreme minority on today’s issue, Milton Bradley’s apology.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Is getting the majority on your side all that is important?
I ask that with sincerity. The minority aren’t always wrong and often times the majority isn’t right. Just because more people agree with you doesn’t make you correct. Of course a lot of people around here aren’t going to disagree with you because it’s your sight. You might want to consider that the voices that disagree with you are the ones you should be listening to more closely. We all can learn a lot more when we listen to the people that aren’t just telling us what we want to hear.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 24, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually I meant your "site," I don't think your "sight" is in question here.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 24, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm perfectly willing to listen to other voices...
… as long as they present themselves in a civil way and don’t namecall and keep the profanity to a minimum.
Note, I am NOT accusing you of doing any of that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I agree with you on the name calling and attacks, I just hope you are as judicious with enforcing these standards on those that agree with you.
It’s just my opinion but I doubt Cubbie-Tim would have personally attacked people the way he did this week unless he thought you would tolerate it out of him.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 24, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
His post on Bradley's apology has been recced 5 times.
At least 5 people agree with him. I’m one of them.
Of course, I would hardly describe myself as a master of communication and social situations, in fact I’m pretty much the opposite. But since that pretty well describes Bradley, too, I think it’s a useful viewpoint. My instincts for apologies (similar to public “thank you” speeches) are something like: take responsibility and keep it short… the more people you name the more likely you are to forget someone, the more specific you get the more likely you are to miss something, the more you say the more likely you are to say the wrong thing.
and a non-descriptive muddled mess of an apology...
isn’t really an apology at all.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 24, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
It isn't the State of the Union address.
If I wanted to read a page-long apology when someone messed up I’d have gone into business or politics. I went into computer programming; when you mess up you acknowledge it, then you shut up and do something useful. Baseball is a lot more like programming than politics. Get the talking over with and play the game.
I wish he would have actually spoken...
this “released statement” is lame.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 24, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Wanting a spoken apology is fair.
I think it would also be fair to not take questions from the media afterwards — I don’t think Milton owes most of those guys anything. I would accept a spoken apology to his teammates and coaches and a written statement to the press — we don’t know if that has happened or if it will, though I doubt it. I’m not sure if he would be given the forum, but he should at least request it.
I rec'd his post
because I wanted others to see Wreckards’ and Harrys’ posts.
Oh, I'm totally doing it
Because I got sick and tired of trying with these guys. Any time you dared suggest that something besides stats mattered, you got made fun of.
So now I’m giving it back. It’s a little dance we do and Wreckard is taking it personal again. He’ll leave for a while and pout and then come back and we’ll do it again.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Please show me an example
I asked multiple times yesterday, the only response was Tim’s on VEP’s views on projections, and, sorry, Tim’s take on VEP was inaccurate. I’m still looking for a real example, ad hominem attack would be a bonus.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
More crickets....
chirp chirp chirp
Is no one up to the task of backing up the claims put forth by Cubbie-Tim, Al and Worf? Amongst others.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Let it go, man.
This is a classic “agree to disagree” situation. You aren’t ever going to see it their way, and you aren’t ever going to verbally berate them in to seeing it yours. You love stats, they see something else. WE ALL GET IT.
If you were so convinced you were right, you wouldn’t need to drag it from thread to thread, looking for validation.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's not my point
First, I’m not berating anyone or tyring to be right about something. I want to read for myself what I’ve been told over and over. Simple as that. I find it quite interesting that I’ve been attacked as a proxy for other points of view, that are undocumented as best as I can tell.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't making a point.
I was imploring you to find it in your heart to understand that not everybody sees it in your way.
Your robotic answer, completely missing that plea, i suppose was to be expected.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 24, 2009 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
You know... you guys would be a lot less insufferable
if you stopped carrying on like Gallileo being persecuted for heresy.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Am I?
Other than Tim’s screed yesterday, this has been thoroughly impersonal. I don’t like the narrative some are consturcting, but I don’t know if that’ mailicious, y’all don’t know me, so I don’t feel persecuted, just confused by the level of minunderstanding here.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
You there, Robot.
Can you even feel feelings?
(dying laughing)
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
You've got to go back weeks
to find the real epic battles on this. You’ll see it.
Don’t get me wrong, I find some stats interesting and I am glad to see baseball pulling away from the avg/RBI/win paradigm.
There is nothing wrong with new ways to look at human playres. There is something wrong with ignoring their are human players
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
OT: Thanks for the Pitch F/X Posts
What looks like a strike to the naked eye, and what should actually be called a strike are two different things. For so many of us, we can say a pitch looked high, low, inside, or outside, but we really don’t have any concrete proof of that. PItch F/X has been very eye-opening in redefining how I look at the strike zone with the naked eye.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Yes, I'll second this.
I don’t even pretend to fully understand Pitch F/X, but I’ve found it really interesting – not only as a fresh perspective on the strike zone, but also as a way to get a really specific, in-depth look at a pitcher.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Pitch F/X ????
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
I meant to ask what is Pitch F/X
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Well, hopefully Harry's still here to answer your question.
He’s the expert. It’s basically the very intense, precise analysis of a pitcher’s performance using data gathered from in-game cameras.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
many tnx
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
I'm back
Basically, each MLB park has a pair of cameras set-up to track the flight of the ball from mound to plate. It provides a very nice chunk of data on the ball’s flight characteristics. Speed, spin direction, movement caused by spin etc. It allows you to classify the pitch by the grip used to throw it with alarming precision – as in two-seam vs four-seam fastballs etc. The next step, already released, sort of, are initial flight characteristics of batted balls (sans spin) and, already piloted, cameras on top of the light standards in parks to capture everything. Including pigions and hot dog wrappers, which is actually problematic.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, pigeons
not pig ions, as I typed it
Although, I suspect pig ions could be a bother
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope they are pigions
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
depends if they're positive or negative pig ions...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Are they always bipolar or do swine monopoles also exist?
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
I prefer down quarks myself
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
It would be cool to use the cameras for something like Red Bee's Piero system
I’m studying the site right now – very interesting indeed!
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
How large are the margins of error? Have they been checked?
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
not a big problem
plate location are accurate within an inch, usually within a half inch, and, in some tests run by sportvision but not published, less than a quarter inch
spin movement is a couple inches horizontally and a bit less vertically
release points are a misnomer, although I’ve seen some ideas at getting at that. Gameady uses 50 ft (actually 48.something), I use 55. Some pitchers release around 53 ft (on a y axis runing from the rubber to the back of home plate).
The biggest challenges are comparing games in different parks, since the cameras are never positioned exaclty the same way, amongst other reasons, including human factors. But they’re tractableproblems.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
The biggest challenges are comparing games in different parks...
Yes, but that is “easy” to account for, if you can do a clean calibration for each park. It is “just” a question of trigonometry.
The optical tracking system, which we use at work, mostly for soccer, can be calibrated using the camera images. We do not know head off time where the cameras will be, and there are large variations in pitch size in Professianal soccer. The positions of the field markings are, however, known, just like the plate and the rubber would be in baseball.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
upps - spelling failures - sorry
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Well, assuming you have that much coverage
They calibrate tightly around the plate, not so much at the mound, so the release ponit precision is not great, and that confounds the movement values.
Check out this link
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/
scroll down a bit and there’s a goldmine of info. Once you see the imags they actualy get on camera, you’ll see why the calibration isn’t perfect at the mound.
Sounds like some cool stuff you’re working with yourself. What are the applications?
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It’s not my fault Al’s wrong about so many things.
Wow, just wow. I think alot of people, myself included happen to agree with Al about so many things. So I guess we’re all wrong too. How arrogant can you be?
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Sep 24, 2009 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
He's not being arrogant, he's providing and argument with substance
that happens to be in opposition to the majority opinion. He’s not the one being arrogant.
Yes, the LOL
he posted after a long post on intangibles was riveting. Took weeks in the library that one did.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
A post like that most likely deserved less.
Nonetheless, you seem to forget the other 20-some comments he posted on there.
Well there you are
A post likely deserved less.
Why on earth should we give your stats stuff the attention beyond one rat’s fart when you won’t do the same?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And why would you think an opinion off the top of your head
is equally valid as one that someone spent time researching and backing up?
How much time did you spend on that LOL?
Did you have to invent the L and the O?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
May I buy a vowel?
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
You're really going to call me out on one throwaway joke
When you post almost nothing but throwaway jokes?
You’re dodging the question.
I post my share of them, yes
But unlike you, I make no bones about it. I’m a wise-ass with a few hot button issues and I don’t apologize.
You on the other hand, pretend like you’re sent down from the Goddess Athena, here to edumacate all of us ignorant heathens. Anyone who dares question you is farting in her temple.
I make throwaway jokes, but I’m not a stinking hypocrite about it.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Well I'm not going to coddle your inferiority complex here
…or question your hilarious self-image as the wise-cracking everyman who shoots from the hip and takes no prisoners.
How am I a hypocrite here? I never said that people shouldn’t make jokes, just that yours were tired and unfunny.
You're a hypocrite
because you give no thought to someone else’s ideas, yet expect the world to treasure yours.
Yes, “LOL” is quite original and witty. Quite spiffing, that one is.
And let us not quibble about self-images, when yours seems to boil down to being the conscience of the board.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
in a way you find acceptable
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Sep 24, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not "my" stats, they're stats indicative of a game.
And it wasn’t “your” opinion as much as it was Cubbie-Tim’s. I would have been more than willing to give praise and little credence to a post that had
1.) A well thought-out hypothesis
2.) Supporting evidence that’s objective, and not from personal accounts
None of that were provided. Heck, it didn’t even have to be from a peer-reviewed article, I would’ve taken a diluted one from ESPN.
This is why others don’t take opinions like “yours” to high value; because it’s not warranted.
As well, one lasting thing about that thread:
Just because something is considered “intangible” shouldn’t warrant intangible evidence with intangible findings and reporting. This leads to Homer buying Lisa’s rock for tiger insurance.
My Favorite "Arrogance" Quote
“I’m not arrogant. I’m just better than you.”
I don’t agree with that attitude, but too many people have it.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Where am I defending him?
Where have I defended any of his recent actions?
I’m questioning the characterization of his apology here. Zeke is claiming Bradley admits nothing. Elsewhere in the thread, people say he’s not taking accountability for his actions.
He does both of these things in the apology. That’s all I’m saying here.
I agree with Wreckard's refutation of Al's characertization of the apology.
Al takes
I apologize for those things that did not work out for the better.
out of the context of Bradley admitting he did and said things that were inappropriate.
"Jim is a smart man. He knows what he has to do. He knows what went wrong. I'm pretty sure he's going to fix it." - Aramis Ramirez on one of the best GMs in the game.
That's not taken out of context at all.
That’s all he apologized for: “those things that did not work out for the better”.
That’s not an apology. It’s mush.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The context is that he's apologizing for the things he regrets.
He regrets things he said and did. That’s about as specific as it gets in apologies today. Yes, that stinks, but it’s the world he lives in as much as any of the rest of us.
"Jim is a smart man. He knows what he has to do. He knows what went wrong. I'm pretty sure he's going to fix it." - Aramis Ramirez on one of the best GMs in the game.
I agree, Al
but in the end, who cares? The apology wasn’t meant to be an apology, nor was it meant to be sincere.
This is just the little dance we do now. If it helps him move onto another team and we only pay $12 million instead of $18 million, it served it’s purpose.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Much like
Your “sorry if I offended you” apologies. Ironic.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
and I cannot understand why you continue to rip him a new one at every opportunity
“Let it go” – you said that in Ivy Walls’ post. Well, why won’t you let it go? The apology is already old news, yet you bring it up again, dissect it, and write what you think should have been said.
For better or worse – and an overwhelming vast majority of the time it’s for the better – you’re our fearless leader here, Al. And as long as you keep bringing up the negativity of this whole sorry saga, people will keep feeding off it and revigorate (yes, I just made up a word – cross between regurgitate and invigorate) the argument.
I swear, this continuing pile-on reminds of the torture scene from Braveheart where Wallace is being gutted and the crowd cheers. And I apologize to all those of Scottish descent out there because I am in no way equating Bradley’s actions with those of Sir William. But by the holy founders of St. Andrew’s, enough is enough. How much longer is this going to continue? When will the crowd slowly start to yell out “Mercy!”
Well, I’ll be the first – “Mercy!”
Take a deep breath, let Hendry do his magic and invest your time and emotions more productively elsewhere.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Sep 24, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 9 recs
I'll agree with you that Hendry needs to do his magic with this.
I’ll be hoping and waiting for him to do it ASAP after the World Series is over (not likely that any major deals would be made before that).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, in Al's defense...
…I believe this was his first opportunity to address the apology on the front page. It is a huge news story and probably does warrant a highlighted discussion beyond Drew’s Fanshot.
But I feel your frustration. And the good news is this is more than likely the beginning of the end of Milton Bradley’s time with the Cubs and the endless debates he has inspired.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Batten down the hatches
More is coming. It may take until January to move him.
God only knows who else besides day care center workers made racial taunts. More stories will come.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I hope not 'til Jan
but you’re probably right on with this one….yikes!
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe, maybe not
Depends on how hard they want to try to not eat a large chunk of salary and how crucial the return is to them.
I hope Hendry learned something from the mess of 2004-2005 Sosa dealings. That was all he focused on and it dragged on forever.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
It'll be a balance
If the Cubs slow-play it, they might convince people that they are considering bringing Bradley back, so anyone that wants him has to up the price.
But that would require Bradley to shut his yap and play along AND he has to be convinced that the Cubs really aren’t trying to keep him and this is just an act.
In the end, it’s probably not worth it for what would amount to an extra single A player.
Remember, this isn’t Sosa. Sammy’s exit was bad, but he was still much more marketable in 2005 than Bradley is today.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Apologies=Big Story
This apology is not a story its fodder. It should have been ignored for every reason that it was dissected. It should be a byline to other things that will actually impact the club and organization.
If anyone should be dissecting the Bradley situation and how it didn’t work its Jim Hendry. Jim should be inviting Bradley into his office to have the longest deepest conversation with Bradley about what did not go well so that in working with future free agents Hendry can have an idea about what doesn’t fit. Its not like Bradley is the first failed OF free agent in the last 25+ years. The mental side of playing and dealing with media is becoming ever more prevalent with each passing tweet. Shame on trader Jim for not recognizing this.
You make a really good point.
In everyone’s haste to pile on Bradley the larger point is being ignored. The Cubs organization needs to figure out how they were culpable in this whole mess and see that it doesn’t happen again. Bradley isn’t the first free agent to come in and be given a hard time by the media and the fans until he’s run out of town. The Cubs made what could be viewed as a risky investment and did very little to protect it or do what they could to maximize productivity. Everyone wants to hear Milton accept responsibility but it’s even more important that the organization figure out how they screwed up.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 24, 2009 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough. I hadn't considered the front page angle.
And frustration was very much why I posted it. And I probably shouldn’t have used the “rip him a new one” phrase. Al, please accept my apologies for that.
I just can’t get over how much people are willing to keep beating a dead horse. Not that we haven’t beat dead horses here on BCB before – we have. But usually there’s a humorous angle to it or pictures or ALL CAPS or something. But this whole thing just reeks of bad karma and I can’t see any good coming from continuing to talk about it.
I really hate having to ever quote Hawk Harrelson, but w.r.t. Bradley, “It’s ovah” and “he gone”. Let the people whose job it is to deal with this stuff, deal with it, and let us get back to doing our jobs…
…Arguing stats vs gut instinct. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
When there's a new story, I don't consider it a dead horse.
This is a new story, and I thought it at least deserved to be discussed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
oh daver....:shakes head::
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
lol, it's okay
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
Rec'd
I used to like to come here to talk about baseball.
Now more and more all I see some people arguing about such inane things. It disappoints me to see Al drop down a few levels like this.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Sep 24, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wreckard
You and your pesky facts are really frustrating
by Holtzmaniac on Sep 24, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
It would only please half the posters here if he
got down on his knees and begged for forgivness.
Chicagoan in the Lou.
by Mike Martin on Sep 24, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's basically what a lot of people here are asking for
And even then I don’t think most of them would forgive him and welcome him back. He’s forever dead to them because he said mean things.
That's a bit simplistic
He shouldn’t be back because his teammates seem delighted that he’s gone, and bringing him back would cause a pretty big rift, not to mention sending the signal that the “former players’ GM” now doesn’t care what the team wants.
He shouldn’t be back for safety reasons, because there are nut jobs that would do who knows what if they were in the stands in RF with him there.
He shouldn’t be back because his history suggests that he really doesn’t get it, and he probably needs help.
He shouldn’t be back because he and Fukudome look like they’re essentially the same player – good OBP, not huge power numbers. Not as good of a fielder as Dome, though. And, the offense could use an injection of OPS.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with most of that
But if it’s a foregone conclusion that he’s gone – which I agree it is – why even worried about his apology? It seems like for everyone involved it’s a formality at this point, which is exactly what we got.
Because it seemed insincere and written by an attorney.
I only wish he’d have written his own, which is why I wrote what I’d have said if I were in his position.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not sure where I stand on that, to be honest.
I’ve participated in the discussion, but I get your point.
However, I think the statement about begging for forgiveness is a little strong.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
For whatever reason...
…I think many of us have an emotional need – however misguided – to actually feel that Milton is sorry for what has happened. If the apology had been written in a less perfuctory, attorney-esque way, we all might feel a little closer to getting some (and I’m sorry to use this word) closure on this issue.
Most of us here have a pretty strong emotional attachment to the Cubs and this whole Milton debacle has only rubbed salt in the wound of this very disappointing season. I agree that we probably shouldn’t let the verbiage of his apology get to us, but, again, it’s more of an emotional reaction than anything else.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I think it has to do with Milton seemingly rejecting Cub fans from the very beginning.
He pushed Cub fans away before they had a chance to be won over by him. I think he must have some serious scars and until he deals with his issues, the cycle will continue.
Personally, I just feel sorry for Milton Bradley. He is a gifted athlete and doesn’t seem to enjoy being a Major league baseball player. I find that very sad.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Sep 24, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
It is very sad.
It’s like trying to watch someone steer a car and, no matter how hard they try, they can’t keep from crashing.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
More like watching someone trying to steer a train.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Sep 24, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Maybe Doc Brown could fix things
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
♪Runaway train, never going back♫
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Honestly
I was thinking of these guys.
I was angsty back then.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
Shark looked better last night
but he still uses that fastball too much, it’s a good pitch, but not one that he should use as much as he does. He needs to work more in the winter leagues if he’s going to make this team next season like the Cubs are hinting.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
I'm glad he's going to winter ball.
Clearly, he has talent and he showed that last night. He needs more regular work and to work on the breaking ball; maybe the Cubs can still get a useful pitcher.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He showed last night that he might have a floor as a useful relief pitcher
His homer rate is disturbing though.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Like I said...
… lots of pitchers have given up HR to Prince Fielder, so Shark is in good company there.
It’s the guys like Jody Gerut that he has to stop giving up the longball to.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
ah talk of baseball :)
Let’s play a game of naming all the ex Cubs who are current 4th outfielders for teams!
Gerut
Pagan…
Which one?
Corey Patterson is about the 7th outfielder on the Brewers.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Actually, Eric Patterson is up with the A's now.
I saw him on MLB Network just the other night.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Not quite a fit
but Jerry Hairston comes to mind, and Pie
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Jones is hurt
Otherwise he’s been in reserve.
Adam Jones, btw, is an impressive young player.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Nothing against Gerut
but he’s not someone you expect to crush one like that
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions
OTOH...
… as I said in the original post, he is having a good month of September.
And he did have a 22-HR rookie season, though of course that’s six years ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I couldn't resist
HEre are the pitchers Gerut took deep, prior to 2009
‘Paul Abbott’
‘Kurt Ainsworth’
‘Bronson Arroyo’
‘Grant Balfour’
‘Rob Bell’
‘Joaquin Benoit’
‘Bartolo Colon’
‘Nate Cornejo’
‘Adam Eaton’
‘Freddy Garcia’
‘Jon Garland’
‘Livan Hernandez’
‘Jason Jennings’
‘Jason Johnson’
‘Gary Knotts’
‘Esteban Loaiza’
‘Kyle Lohse’
‘Braden Looper’
‘Pedro Martinez’
‘Joe Mays’
‘Mike Myers’
‘Danny Patterson’
‘Joel Pineiro’
‘Brad Radke’
‘Rick Reed’
‘Scott Schoeneweis’
‘Brian Shouse’
‘Jeff Suppan’
‘Ugueth Urbina’
‘Luis Vizcaino’
‘Brad Voyles’
‘David Wells’
‘Carlos Zambrano’
‘Jake Peavy’
‘Jon Rauch’
‘Aaron Taylor’
‘Jeremy Bonderman’
‘Wilfredo Ledezma’
‘Les Walrond’
‘Matt Roney’
‘Aaron Heilman’
‘Danny Haren’
‘Rafael Perez’
‘Charlie Manning’
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Looks like a pretty wide-ranging list.
All the way from Jake Peavy to Les Walrond.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Pedro Martinez, Brad Voyles
and who the hell is Brad Voyles?
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/voylebr01.shtml?redir
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Shark isn't alone
the HR that Wells gave up to Gerut (a slam on a 1-2 pitch) was a worse infraction.
Shark gave them more last night than I would have expected. Still not sold on him, but he’s pretty damn young.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Sep 24, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
1-2 Counts
That reminds me of a question I always have: Is there any tracking of staffs or pitchers giving up hits on 1-2 counts? It seems like the Cubs give up an inordinate amount of these gaffes.
yep, the pitcher profiles on espn.com do that pretty well
Check it out, I just selected a pitcher at random – scroll down a bit and you’ll see results on all the counts.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=5019
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
im not sure who that pitcher is...
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 24, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions
What winter league is Shark going to?
by Fraggin Judge on Sep 24, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Mexican.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Sep 24, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Hopefully Mazatlan
they televise their home games, and it streams free online
The MLB Network will carry some games, too.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
That's nice to know.
I love what MLB Network has done all year. If they carry winter league and/or AFL games, that’ll be a godsend all offseason to those of us who love baseball and want to see some, not to mention being able to keep up with what prospects are doing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'll be happy
since my Spanish is not good enough to grasp everything. Last winter, it was Mazlatan games and games from the Venezuelan league. Often interrupted by a message from Chavez or some bureaucrat, but good baseball for stave of MLB withdrawl.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Speaking of the hinting part...
Does any semblance of the “Shark” doing well in September make it even more for sure that Rich Harden won’t be back next year?
I kinda get that feeling more and more.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Sep 24, 2009 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions
I wish the Cubs would keep Harden used in the right role
Meaning lots of DL stints to keep his arm rested. He can say whatever he wants, but his arm breaks down with too many starts in a row. We have the pitching depth to use him properly, something not all teams do.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
But he needs more time between outings than most guys
as a starter. So what makes you say that?
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Two pitches
By nature, that makes him a closer candidate. But he’s an oddball, since he can do a few things with the circle change, and, as vonde points out, he seems to need extra rest.
But, the same thing may have been said about Kerry Wood.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess because I think of him as a strikeout pitcher
and I think strikeouts are usually more critical when the game is on the line than in the early part of the game.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
what about platooning Harden and Maybe Gorzo for the 5th man?
They both seem to be better off with long rests between starts
"It doesn't matter what country someone's from, or what they look like, or the color of their skin. It doesn't matter what they smell like, or that they spell words slightly differently some would say more correctly. I'm a person. Bret's a person. You're a person. That person over there is a person. And each person deserves to be treated like a person. "
by Rhymenocerous on Sep 24, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Harden will get between $8M and $12M through
arbitration and probably a 3 year deal in the $12M range in free agency. He can be great, but as Daver and I discussed the other day, he’s great in half his starts this year, and meh in the other half. The team is .500 in games he pitched this year and that involves coming back to win after he was pulled in a few games.
Does a guy who struggles to start 25 games, an ERA near 4.0, is inconsistant worth Ace money when his numbers, in a year he was considered healthy, average to a #5 starter? Further, he only pitched well in away night games. For a team with 82 home games, most during the day, is Harden worth the money for the Cubs?
if this was still new to me, i wouldn't understand
I wish they had gotten something from the Twins for him.
By the way not letting Heilman go to the Giants was a weird move as well.
I know he has pitched a little better of late but that was a good way to shed some payroll for an easily replaceable player.
Heilman...
… pitching better lately, might give him some offseason trade value.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
"not letting Heilman go to the Giants"
it takes two to tango.
Unless you think the Cubs would get a lump of coal for him. With the way he has thrown in the last 60 days, they may be able to trade him in the off-season for someone of modest skill.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Excellent apology, Al.
If that had been the actual Milton Bradley apology, I would have said: “thanks Milton, all is forgiven, and welcome back to the Cubs. Now let’s rock the league next year!”
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Sep 24, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions
Had that been Milton's actual apology, monkeys would now be flying out of my butt...
"Pain don't hurt you none" - Sparky Anderson (1987)
Obviously Sparky was never a Cubs fan...
It’s like Al said, Milton just gave that canned apology because it’s expected, today’s apology means nothing in the big money celeb world. Screw up (badly) and then come out and apologize for basically nothing. It’s almost like a kid’s passive “sorry” when a teacher or parent makes him do it. Not much depth there.
World we live in.
Accountability is non-existent. Milton is no different. Enough of Milton.
Shark did look good last night. Couple of mistakes, but over all not bad. Spring next year could be a telling year for him.
Cubs, go 8-3 to finish the season. At least have some positive feel towards 2010.
6-5 is more likely
Win 1 in SF, 3 against PGH, 2 against AZ
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
That's a pretty reasonable expectation...
…though I’m still hoping to split the Giants series.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
The Cubs swept a much better Arizona team at Wrigley last year.
They could do it again, especially if they don’t have to face Haren.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sweeps are tough to expect, though
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions
True enough.
Except when you play the Pirates.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sure, but it even then. Anyone can have a bad start, for example.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Or, by the same token, an opposing pitcher...
…can have a ridiculously good start, like Narverson last night. Or Lehr. Or Figueroa. Or…
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Did Naverson have a big strike zone?
Not why they lost, but from my vantage point down the 3B line, it seemed like he was getting a lot of low pitches. He still pitched well either way.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 24, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, the strike zone was huge.
At least according to the CSN postgame report.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Watching the game it was huge, I'd agree.
The HP Umpire was giving a Glavine-esque corner, low and away.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Bill Potter on Sep 24, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
It looked like one strike-three pitch
he threw to Johnson was in the dirt. I think the big strike zone was why so many of those K’s were of the looking variety.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 24, 2009 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The second I saw him pause in his delivery
I knew we were done. Just like Doug Davis, we don’t hit those guys.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Al, if you ever decide to leave the TV industry, you have a future in Crisis Communications.
Now, onto the game. Samardzija was impressive last night, especially given the standard he’d set this season.
My only quibble would be with how many fastballs he threw – maybe he just doesn’t have the confidence in the offspeed pitches yet (or Soto wanted a lot of fastballs). I think continuing to refine his offspeed arsenal in winter ball will help Samardzija a lot.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
One problem with the pitching comparison
It looked to me like the “old” Samardzija was pitching out of the stretch, and the “new” Shark out of the windup. In fact, a few batters later, when there was finally someone on base, he went back to the less upright stance and more hurried motion. Keep in mind at the time they showed the comparison, he had only pitched out of the windup.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I try to stay out of the Milton threads so perhaps this has been suggested
But I think the Rays are a good match for him. With Desmond Jennings coming up they are kind of on the fence about BJ Upton. I think Upton would look damn good in center for us.
We give them Milton who plays DH and RF for them, we take Upton and Pat Burrell’s final year ($9mil). If we agree to eat $12 mil of Milton’s deal we essentially pay Upton and Burrell Milton’s money the next two years, and I wouldn’t be opposed to just cutting Burrell if needed.
Blast away.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
If Burrell could play RF, it would be worth it.
But he can’t.
And I don’t see the Rays putting Upton in such a deal, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
LF UZR 2006, 2007, 2008
Adam Dunn: -13.7, -18.8, -15.3
Pat Burrell: -10.5, -17.6, -4.3
Not saying I want either of them in right field, but it’s just funny you’d say this after advocating the worse-fielding Dunn out there.
Yeah both would be awful in right
I would just cut Burrell in this fake trade world, Upton is the prize here. Getting Burrell simply helps the Rays lose a contract and player they might not want.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Why would you trade for and then cut a valuable player?
It makes no sense.
I just don’t see why the Rays would give us Upton in that deal anyway. They really aren’t gaining anything but risk, and are losing a high-upside player who’s had success at the major league level.
I agree with that.
Maybe the Rays would take Milton, but there’s no way they give up Upton.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't know that Burrell would fit here, perhaps as a pinch hitter
Actually yes I would love him to be the pinch hitter, so forget the cutting part.
As for the Upton thing, this ESPN article details various struggling young players.
Here is the Upton part.
We’ll cut Upton some slack because of injuries. He underwent left shoulder surgery last winter, and he says he never had an opportunity to develop strength in the shoulder. He’s also been bothered by an ankle problem since early September, and the injury has hindered him defensively.
But that’s no excuse for Upton’s bad body language, inconsistent approach to running out ground balls, and seeming indifference at times.
“When he strikes out, it’s like he’s on major league rehab in extended camp,” said an AL scout. “It doesn’t seem to bother him. They’ve got a real issue there. They’re probably not going to be able to trade him and get close to equal value, and that attitude sure isn’t going to help him become a better player.”
Upton complained when manager Joe Maddon dropped him from leadoff to ninth in the order, and recently told Rays beat writer Marc Topkin that he’d like to “flush this season down the toilet.” After hitting 24 homers in 2007, he has 19 combined the past two seasons. His on-base percentage took an enormous dip this season, from .383 to .303.
“He’s not a bad kid at all,” said a front office man who knows Upton. “He’s not lazy, and he really cares. But sometimes he gets embarrassed, and I think that’s when he lopes after a ball or doesn’t run one out. He really makes you scratch your head.”
Reports I’ve read suggest they need an OF to go, and Upton is probably the lowest on their list of guys to keep based on his attitude and performance.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Well a trip over to DRays Bay
what I should have done to being with, reveals that they don’t they will trade him.
Oh well, I’m sure I have more unrealistic trades up my sleeve.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
holy post fail
They don’t think they will trade him. I just skipped words the first time
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
bad combo
But that’s no excuse for Upton’s bad body language, inconsistent approach to running out ground balls, and seeming indifference at times.
This would seemingly be a bad fit in an media market that doesn’t do well with stars not living up to expectations: see Patterson, Corey, Bradley, Milton and Jones, Jacques (semistar).
What have the Cubs done to make you believe they could maximize the potential of a player that is perceived as having attitude issues?
I love Upton’s talent but have no confidence whatsoever in the Cubs to get the most out of him. He would be hounded about his past by the local media and every move he made, they would attempt to use it against him and relate it to his past. Once a player has earned a certain reputation the Chicago media is too lazy to form a new narrative. Haven’t we learned anything from this season?
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 24, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
This season sure
Over their careers they’re remarkably similar. Here’s their wOBA for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons:
Dunn: .365, .399, .383
Burrell: .381, .391, .374
Obviously Burrell’s been terrible this year, but he’s also been hurt and playing in a tougher league. To me they’re very similar players.
Dunn would have been a better fit given Lou's desire for a LH hitter.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But his defense would've wiped most of it out
He’s really awful in the field, just horrific. They’d have fixed one problem, but created another one.
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 24, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
The Rays are going to be looking for veteran leaders in the off-season by all accounts
The Cliff Floyds of the world, again.
For some reason, I don’t see them looking to Milton, especially as they look for veteran leadership.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg