Trade Zambrano? Not After Spectacular 3-0 Shutout Of Giants
by Al Yellon on Sep 26, 2009 7:52 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintI have been, at times, the leader of the "Trade Zambrano" bandwagon. I did so after the Z - Michael Barrett dustup in 2007, and I told him to "grow up" after the memorable meltdown with umpire Mark Carlson last May.
But there is no doubt that Z is among the most talented pitchers in baseball, and he showed every bit of that talent in shutting out the Giants 3-0 on two hits. In addition to outstanding pitching -- throwing 67 strikes in 98 pitches and allowing just two singles, one by Juan Uribe and another by Tim Lincecum, and issuing a walk to Randy Winn -- Z drove in two of the three Cubs runs, the first by beating a double-play relay throw, and the second with a double to the base of the wall in left field.
Really, what more can you ask of a pitcher? Z took that intensity that we often have seen explode in histrionics and focused every bit of it on his pitching. If we knew that intensity could be that channeled in every single start, not one of us would be asking for him to be sent away (I've even heard a rumor of a "challenge trade" where he'd be sent to the White Sox for Jake Peavy).
And on a night when the start of the game was delayed about five minutes while the Giants presented their annual "Willie Mac" award for community service to Matt Cain (and emcee Mike Krukow gave a shout-out to Cubs broadcaster Bob Brenly, who won the award while playing for the Giants in 1984), Z and the Cubs accomplished all this in one hour and fifty-six minutes, the first nine-inning Cubs game finished in less than two hours in more than three years, since April 17, 2006, a 4-1 win over the Dodgers in Los Angeles.
With Aramis Ramirez still nursing a sore shoulder (Lou didn't want to play him on another chilly night in San Francisco) and Derrek Lee having a bit of a recurrence of his neck problems after an awkward slide stealing his first base of the year and then getting slapped on his helmet by Angel Guzman in the celebration following Jeff Baker's homer (D-Lee says he doesn't blame Guzman and will be back today), the Cubs put another spring-training-like lineup on the field last night, with Baker hitting cleanup and Bobby Scales again in left field. Scales played a competent LF in windy [Phone Holding Company] Park, and Baker drew two walks off Lincecum.
Sam Fuld had three hits, and Len Kasper pointed out during the game that he had singled off two Cy Young winners (Lincecum and Randy Johnson) in the same game. Wonder when that has happened before? The Cubs even scored a run off Johnson, something they've had trouble doing during the Big Unit's long and distinguished career.
But the star of the game was Z, who now has the only two complete-game shutouts for a Cubs pitcher since Jason Marquis threw a three-hitter vs. the Pirates on May 9, 2007. Z was, in many ways, just as dominant than during his no-hitter last September 14. Though he gave up the two singles, he threw fewer pitches and had Giants hitters flailing away at a devastating slider -- seven of the nine K's were swinging.
Keep up the good work, Z, and we'll be thrilled to see you retire as a Cub. And one more thing about recent Cubs baseball: I think I've enjoyed watching them play this week more than at any time all season. The 5-1 record posted since Sunday has included some fine play by just about everyone, and even the one loss was played well. Too bad we had to wait so long.
Finally, there were a lot more excellent entries in last night's photo caption contest. There were two who played off the "Dancing With The Stars" angle, but the winner is going to be the one who posted it first (by time stamp); that would be lohroffc, who posted, simply:
Fukudome and Velez audition for Dancing with the Stars.
Send me your mailing address and I'll send out the DVD. Today's preview thread will be up at 1 pm CDT.
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Vague feelings of hope just refusing to die - It might not be likely, but it is still possible
I agree with AL. Watched the archive this morning and Z pitched a damn good game! If “good” Z sticks around, trading him would a serious, serious error.
Aegroto, dum anima est, spes esse dicitur – Eamus Catuli
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
It is said, that for the sick, there is hope as long as there is life
In other words – Do not give up the ship.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Numbers
3, that is the Rockies “magic number” to eliminate the Cubs. Of course that overlooks the 3 other teams ahead of the Cubs too.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Nevertheless, until that number is "0" there is still a chance, however small.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep, even an atto chance is still a chance
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
True
The Cubs have not been eliminated, yet.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
If the Cubs win their last 9 games...
… AND the Rockies go 1-7, the Cubs will pass them. Tie if the Rockies go 2-6.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Or if the Cards lose the rest then they tie with the Cubs (I think)
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Of course with the Cards playing the Rockies, it becomes difficult to decide which loss would be better.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Either way you lose
However painful as it maybe though, the Cubs chances at the NL Central are hinging on a 1 game “tragic number,” so you may be better off hoping the Cardinals win against the Rockies.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I hate to say it...
But that hope is sneaking into the back of my mind. At the very least, it’s great the see the Cubs playing good baseball. Eamus Catuli
"Brant Brown...DROPS THE BALL!!!!"
by cubswgnrocks on Sep 26, 2009 8:57 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
so he finally has a shutdown start
and all of the sudden its silly to trade him?
If we can get something of value for him, you trade him. If we’re getting rid of drama queens like Bradley, you have to look to trade zambrano
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Sep 26, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You can look to
trade him all you like but unless he says yes to it it’s a no to a trade.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
If this is the Zambrano we are going to get
I will eat crow, blackbird, raven and pigeon on all my trade urgings.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
µWorf?
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Well the I'll just have to wait with posting a cigar picture.
My fingers remain crossed for you, the kid and your better half.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
I thought your wife was the one who is supposed to crave strange food.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions
By the way pigeon tastes rather good...
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
A little bit...
You might want to try pigeon breast with red wine gravy, roast leeks and wild mushrooms, if “clean” pigeons are available in Chicago. I never had pigeon before moving to Europe, and don’t think I ever saw them used for food in the States.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Looks tasty.
But you’re right, I doubt there are any “clean” pigeons in Chicago. Not the ones I see around here, anyway.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
In some parts of Germany, raising Pigeons for racing and/or food is a big hobby.
I wouldn’t want to eat a street pigeon…
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Are chickens any cleaner than pigeons?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
It all depends on how the animal is raised and kept.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
City kid
I’m a city raised kid and not acquainted with live chickens.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I'm city kid myself,
but my “sister in law” in Turkey had a hand raised house rooster. Hansi loved to sit on people’s heads, and was a very clean bird. He ate all the scorpions, which endemic around their house (a big plus point). Because it is not possible to get a chicken to be house clean, he was not allowed inside and lived in the atrium.
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
THAT'S FUNNY!
Interesting about them eating scorpions. I’ve heard that chickens are a good at clearing fields of ticks too. These things learned should prove useful next time my suburban home yard becomes overrun with scorpions and/or ticks.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
The hosts on Travel Channel
seem to be eating pigeons, snakes, or exotic organ meats in every other show.
Just an observation.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 26, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm as big Zambrano fan as anyone
as he has dominating stuff. But where was this the during the regular season? I find it hard to believe even after last nights dominating start, it was only Big Z’s 9th victory of the year. Also his ERA for this season, 3.69, is above his career ERA of 3.50. An ace has to be more consistent. Ideally, he would be a number 2 starter… and probably the best number 2 starter in the majors.
Still, I’m like Zambrano on our team because of his nasty stuff, his hitting ability, and constant hustle.
I hate that I always catch all my gramatical errors after I preview/post
I’m as big of a Zambrano fan as anyone*
Still, I would like Zambrano on our team because of his nasty stuff, his hitting ability, and constant hustle.
#2
I think Cain, Wainwright, Lester, and others would argue that they are a better #2 than Z and would be right. Z was masterful and dominating but that was just 1 game.
Al even stated that : But there is no doubt that Z is among the most talented pitchers in baseball. Wow thats like saying that John Smoltz is still among the most talented pitchers in baseball after he struck out 7 padres in a row. It just isnt true. Z had a wonderful game against a wonderfully punchless team. Was it great to see? Yes! Does it erase his ho hum year and put him back with the elite? No way! Every pitcher is going to be on top of their game once in a while and have a great game what separates them from the greats is consistency which we all know Z does not have. I hope I didnt sound like this post was pointed at you. We are actually in agreeance with Z as more of a #2 although I see him as a middle tier 2 or maybe even a 3.
You make some good points
Cain, Wainwright, Lester… most people would take them over Z including myself. However, I think Z had a down year and will put up better numbers next year. Like I said in my earliar post, his ERA of 3.69 is above his career average of 3.50. One of these years, hopefully next year, he is poised for a career year. He didn’t have a great year this but I do believe he can be and is an elite pitcher in the MLB.
And hopefully
he takes care of his body a little better for next season.
BigZ- get those ab excercises done at the beginning of your workout; it’s much easier that way.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Z should stay
I really hope they don’t trade him away.
Chicago
Cubs
We are the better CC.
by Zy Toro Young on Sep 26, 2009 8:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I like his game.
I don’t think he is lame.
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 26, 2009 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
No more rhyming now, I mean it!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Boooo! HISSSSSS!
Dum spiro spero…
Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Sep 26, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Anybody want a peanut?
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
I'm glad someone gets it
I do love me some Fezzik
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Don't worry.
I won’t let it go to my head.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
While you may mean well
And are probably swell,
To give him away
Would make me say,
oy vay
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
OTOH, Trib writer Sullivan says SF interested in Bradley for Rowand
Trib, my bad contract ($23M remaining) for your bad ($36M remaining)
More right handed, my suggestion is if you are willing to take Bradley how about Soriano and then still find a place to dump Bradley.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
This is a good idea
Soriano for Rowand. Although the Cubs would have to add something to the deal, money-wise. Maybe take another contract back? Soriano>Rowand in talent, but that’s a huge disparity in years on the contract.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
The CUBS would have to add money ?
Rowand would cost 13 million dollars more and probably has less of an upside. Pass.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know.
I think Rowand would produce much more in Wrigley than the ballparks he has to play in the West. Taking on the 13 million stinks, but if deals are limited and depending the offers out there, this would not be a bad deal. Someone would have to tell Rowand that brick is behind the Ivy, not a regular padded wall like at Citizens Bank.
The issue with Rowand
is how often he’s going to be healthy in Wrigley Field. This is a man who’s signature move is running into outfield walls. In Philadelphia and San Francisco, that’s dangerous. In Chicago with the bricks, it’s almost potentially lethal.
Still, it’s something worth considering. Rowand isn’t a bad player (OK, he’s not a good player anymore either) and he’s really not a SF kind of guy. Maybe getting him back in Chicago is just what he needs.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 26, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't we have our outfield-wall-running-into position pretty well tied up?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I would think so
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
That was just a silly FENCE
You want WALLS , here is Fuld crashing into walls
http://tinyurl.com/yezf2qk and here
http://www.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6108747
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I am discussing Soriano for Rowand
Yes, Soriano is more expensive than Rowand. More per year and more years.
Sorry my “this” seemed to refer to the previous headline, rather than the trade mentioned in the post. I have hanging "this"s all the time in my writing, but I usually remember to clarify in my professional writing.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
No!
Keep both of them in black n’ orange! Zito’s best years were in Oaktown, and are not likely to be replicated in SF!
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
I think a probable Bradley trade
would take long enough. Trading Soriano would more difficult. It would take the entire offseason. Hendry wouldn’t have to focus on other things and to improve the team. When the trade finally happens he will have to follow it up. We won’t all that we need from it and might not have other options. I hope this doesn’t turn into the same situation that we had in the Sosa offseason.
Chicago
Cubs
We are the better CC.
by Zy Toro Young on Sep 26, 2009 8:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
*wouldnt have TIME
I’m terrible.
Chicago
Cubs
We are the better CC.
by Zy Toro Young on Sep 26, 2009 8:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Best game of the year ...
playoff implications, dueling aces, and a Cub win.
Yes, it is easy to love this Zambrano, just as it is Demp’s outing the night before. But, when you look at the body of work, there is too much inconsistency.
"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - Ernie Banks
Some notes from my friend the Giants fan
I was messaging with a Giants fan friend when they play each other and last night he sent me this ( after I said I was sorry it had to be the Giants the Cubs beat but so it goes)
“Best pitching performances I’ve seen all year: Zambrano’s tonight and Jonathan Sanchez’ no-hitter. Zambrano’s was actually the better of the two, as there wasn’t even a loud out tonight.”
I told him about my “interest” in Fuld and he said he thought Fuld was great and should be a starter next year and I had to tell him that despite Sam’s 3-3 night he was not exactly a .300 hitter and had no power to which he replied
“Nobody on the Giants except Sandoval has any power at all, so I concluded that Fuld is a starter. "
I am fond of the Giants and I think they have great fans and a great park but these last two wins have been beautiful.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Think you missed the point
He never heard of Fuld and saw him get 3 hits and run the bases. Slightly better than the Giant’s CF so he just assumed Fuld would be a starter. Irony is he had o idea Fuld was a great DEFENSIVE player so of course I sent him some links
to his Web Gems.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
when does an "interest" become an "obsession"?
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
Hey just because I stumbled on his wedding gift registry on line
is no reason to assume I am thinking of anything beyond the Cubs getting the best line up possible.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I am with Jessica when it comes to Fuld.
If you objectively look at his improvement this year, he is proving to be a legit LH hitter who has actually proven that he can hang in there with LH big league pitching too—his #s against lefties are better than Fukudome (I assume) and though it is SSS, he has faced top notch pitching in the few at bats he has had.
Many of you who say “Fuld is not a starter” are looking at his body of work from 2008. Many a minor league player presses too much the first year he comes up and learns to play within himself the second time around. Maybe, just maybe we are seeing the real Fuld in 2009—and he has done one hell of a job.
Why not have Fuld in an outfield platoon with RJ, Fox, Dome (I am leaving Fonzi out of this) to start camp in 2010. That seems fine with me. The guy is proving to me that he is not only a good defensive player but that he can hit big league pitchers.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
He might make a decent platoon CF
but I am content if he just stays on the damn team next year. The one thing he has proved is that he can be an MLB player ( which many here doubted) and that defense and speed are sorely underrated. I am afraid Fuld did not play in the MLB in 08 but did have a few ABs ( but no hits) in 07. Anyway he is the kind of guy the Cubs NEED.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
+1
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Sep 26, 2009 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Fuld's playing time was '07?
time flies when you are having funk.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Alas he got injured before the start of the 08 season
After having been named player of the year in the AZL. Things got so bad he spent part of O7 in AA but he stuck with it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the season he crashed into the RF ivy
during a Saturday game on Fox, I believe.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 26, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the
reason is the career .760 OPS in AAA and a career .754 AA OPS—they are looking at his body of work. RJ, Fox, Dome, and Fuld would make up the worst OF in all of baseball. That would be a scary thought to being 2010 with those guys only.
He’s a nice 4th-type. I wouldn’t give him the job—we already have Dome. That would be a “peat and repeat” OF.
I don’t see the need for another sub .800 OPS platoon OF.
The Cubs starting outfield OPS this year:
Soriano .726
Dome .797
Bradley .775
Granted, this was a big part of the problem with the offense and we expect better next year.
What is the solution? Go to free agency and get a “good” veteran backup. We all know how that worked out this year. We are talking a #4 or 5, why pay a free agent when you can get similar production from within?
I agree w/ DS above. Defense and speed are underrated. Guys like Blanco and Fuld save runs in the field. I sure would have like to have Fuld in left or right earlier this season when they weren’t generating offense anyway.
I’d like to see him have a chance at a platoon, if he doesn’t produce offensively, then pull back on his starts. Let’s address other needs first, in my opinion.
Some people say the glass is half empty, some say half full. I say, are you going to drink that?
by BleedsbluinMI on Sep 26, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I would not trade "Z"
I love the way he competes and hustles. His blowups are inexcusable, however he does appear to be on board for the team and team results.
I honestly believe if he got moved, he would make the Cubs rue the day just like Maddux did.
Agreed on all points.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Sep 26, 2009 8:51 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
can of worms redux
The last bunch of series were well-played and enjoyable to watch. I can’t help but think that the absence of Bradley in the clubhouse has helped. Silly me.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Sep 26, 2009 8:40 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Oh no... Here we go again...
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Really big "if" there:
If we knew that intensity could be that channeled in every single start, not one of us would be asking for him to be sent away…
Correct his ADD or whatever, a little anger management, and better conditioning, and yes, he will be a Cy Young candidate, maybe even MVP.
But really, he’s getting a bit too old to be a pitcher laden with “ifs”, isn’t he? Time for the guy to just settle in and pitch, and hit as well as he does.
I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again
Big Z is maturing, both emotionally and as a pitcher. No more fistfights, fewer Gatorade receptacles on the DL, and he works to contact more and more. It took him a little longer to get here than anyone would have liked, but IT’S HAPPENING.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Good Lord, how quickly we Cub fans forgive and forget.
Part of the reason Z’s great performance was all but meaningless last night was Z himself. Where was a performance like this in say, April, May, June, July or August? If you can get something good for him, ship his inconsistent crazy ass out of town.
And I did rue the day Maddux was allowed to leave. Because he had shown steady improvement each year and had just won a Cy Young Award.
Z reminds me of a line from the great book “Bang The Drum Slowly.” A player is described as having “…a million dollars of talent worth five cents on delivery.” Obviously Z’s better than that, but not by a lot.
As a big Z supporter
I cant say I don’t understand where you’re coming from. He’s earned every bit of criticism he gets.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Sep 26, 2009 8:54 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Respectfully disagree
28 or 29 year old, who normally will post 200 innings and win 14-16 games. You better get a pitcher of equal value and a prospect. No “budding” prospects for “Z” please, a established, consistent starter and they are tough to find.
Now Felix Hernandez, I would no doubt be in the talks.
The man has been here seven years.
In that time he has not lost a pound nor shown much interest in changing his immature behavior. I know watching guys pump their fists is exciting to fans but if Z were a true competitor he would have come to camp 40 pounds lighter sometime in the past seven years.
And
turned 28 years old this year. Goodness find me another pitcher that the Cubs could within reason get in a trade equal or better value?
“Trade Him” is a easy phrase to shout out, getting a pitcher in return that is equal to “Z” is a lot tougher.
Trade “Z” you lose 200 innings, mid 3’s ERA and 15 Wins.
A trade would probably shock Zambrano
out of his comfort zone — he’d lose 25 pounds and (who knows?) eventually haul in the Cy Young for somebody else. His ego and pride would be wounded, and probably then, understanding his personality (as best as we can from the outside looking in) he would finally be challenged to work and excel.
Perhaps this has been a humbling season for him, and he rebounds.
I’d let Hardin go before trading Z — unless the deal is amazingly spectacular.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 26, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I forget the exact quote
But a good article linked from here this year had the approximate title:
“There are no pitching prospects”
The point was that pitching performance ebbs and flows to much to consider anyone a pitching prospect.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
All the sudden this team is REALLY
Fun to watch again. What is the missing variable again?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Sep 26, 2009 8:52 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Jayne does not approve
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Of course, Jayne rarely approves of anything
Great to see a Firefly reference!
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Sep 26, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Shiney, ain't it...
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Albert Einstein
Was this Z's 2nd best start of his career?
Other than the no hitter? He was absolutely dominant last night. Plus, he drove in 2 of our 3 runs. What a performance.
People who are screaming “trade him trade him” need to chill out. Remember two years ago when he won 18 games? This year he has a better ERA, better K:BB ratio , more K’s per 9, fewer walks per 9, and he’s given up far fewer HR’s (just 10 in 163 innings). If Z had more than 9 wins, this “trade him, he’s not a real ace” crap wouldn’t even be talked about. And we all know it.
I would actually rank this as his best.
His pitch counts were lower, and he had more devastating stuff with his slider.
But yes, it is open for debate, and anytime someone pitches a no-hitter, it is one of their best pitching performances.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 26, 2009 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on how you slice it
http://www.cubsfx.com/2009/09/is-lou-expecting-too-much-from-zambrano.html
he was lucky, in a few ways
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/9/26/1055954/should-the-giants-back-off-tim
but he was strong as heck (and yes, that slider was moving)
by Harry Pavlidis on Sep 26, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Z
We sat about 30 feet away while Z warmed up before the game. I was struck by both his intensity and, oddly enough, his calmness. He looked like a man that knew what he had to do to pitch well and was going to see it through. My wife and I were really excited (to the annoyance of the Giants fans behind us) to see Z come out to pitch the 9th inning. He was dynamite last night.
wccubfan
But see, part of the reason he only has nine wins is because
he doesn’t stay in shape and is beginning to get hurt more often. As long as we’re talking about his great performances (San Diego ’03 also comes to mind) how about compiling the number of times he was cruising along for three or four innings, let a bad call by an ump or error by a teammate piss him off, then came completely unraveled turning a potentially good outing into one of his five inning a hundred and ten pitch specials. The man is not mentally tough.
And I’m not demanding they trade him. But if I were Hendry, I’d definitely entertain realistic offers.
Look at his game logs...
There have been 6 starts of his this year where he went at least 6 innings, gave up one run or fewer, and didn’t get a decision. THAT is a much bigger reason for his win total than not staying in shape, as you put it. And on the field, the dude still busts his ass harder than anyone on the team, in my opinion.
agreed.
lots of short memories here. his run support early in the season was just awful. you don’t think that wears on a guy like Z too? granted, he is not born with the mental discipline of Randy Wells, but Z got screwed out of 4-5 wins at least, by crappy run support. do we remember how many games where the only run/runs scored in a Z game came from Z? even last night 2 of the 3 RBIs came from Z—pathetic.
there is a reason the Cubs are near the top of quality starts (more than thy had in ’08) but are no where near the top of the NL in wins. the problem has been the offense and hitting with RISP.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Good point.
A lot of our starters could make a case for more wins. Z is definitely one of them. As you correctly say, the lack of run support has cost him several wins.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 26, 2009 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
+Randy Wells
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Glad you brought that up
Has he had some blow ups this year, sure. But look at the starts he has had that could of been in the win column:
IP H R ER HR BB K
May 27 PIT W 5-2 - 6.1 7 2 1 0 3 6, No decision
Jun 10 @ HOU L 1-2 8.0 3 1 1 0 2 3 No decision
Jun 23 @ DET L 4-5 7.0 5 3 3 1 2 4 No decision
Jul 3 MIL W 2-1 - 7.0 5 1 1 0 3 3 No decision
Jul 27 HOU W 5-1 7.0 3 1 1 1 4 4 No decision
Sep 4 @ NYM L 2-6 6.0 3 1 1 1 3 7 No decision
Sep 20 @ STL W 6-3 6.0 5 2 2 0 3 6 No decision
These are some starts that “Z” could won. Granted to win all 7 no, but how about 4 of them, get him 13 wins with one more start. Not Bad I say.
Crap
it was fine before I posted it, oh well. Point is 3 earned runs in only one of those starts, 6 innings or more, and no wins.
I think every Cub pitcher has a list like this for 2009.
Yeah, he should have a few more wins. And he might have several more without two trips to the DL this year. Really exciting to see him bust his ass on the field. But if he was committed to being an elite pitcher, the best pitcher he’s capable of being, he would bust his ass in the gym.
didn't Z say he is now committing to working in the gym (finally)?
that he is too old to let his body “go”.
the fact that Z admitted this is a sign of maturity (admitting a weakness), cut the guy some slack. he does seem to admit when he is wrong—this is a sign of growing up.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
I hope he meant it...
… and will do the work he needs to, to stay in shape.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Saying he'll work out in the gym is not a sign of maturity.
Working out in the gym would be a sign of maturity. I hope he means it but only time will tell.
responding to you and Al...
when you admit that you have been lax and hate it, it seems to me that your next move is to spend the money on a trainer and do the things to force yourself to get into the gym. it is one thing to say “I will get into the gym” but when you admit “you hate it” you are admitting you will need outside help to force yourself to stay committed to the program.
I think by the way he admitted his mistakes and failings, he is very committed to coming to spring training fit. My guess is Ramirez, who looked very fit this year, might be a help to him in this effort. I know this is nuance, but it is important nuance. By admitting he hates going to the gym, he said a lot about how he will attack the problem.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
I know Dempster will want to devote his offseason to being with his family as much as possible
but boy, if there’s anyway he could host a “Chubby Cubbie Camp” this offseason in Arizona, I’d be all for it.
Obviously Soto and Z would be the guests of honor, but there’s probably a few others that could use a few weeks of long “strolls” up and down the mountains outside of Phoenix. Heck, if I had a place to stay out there, I’d sign up. Sorry, Randy Hundley – I’d love to attend your camp someday, but first things first…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Zambrano actually did participate in an off-season conditioning program last year.
He said he doesn’t like to do abdominal work and needs to focus on it more. His admission of being lax in his ab area wasn’t an admission of being out-of-shape. Ab work is important but it’s not like he sat around in the off-season and didn’t work-out. You can be in good cardiovascular shape and still need to do more to build up your core. People have taken his remarks out of context and jumped to him being out of shape when that’s not actually the case. He is a big guy but he’s not been out of shape like Geo was at the start of the year.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 26, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just curious why you would think Ramirez can help him in the off-season?
Carlos Zambrano lives in Venezuela in the off-season while Aramis lives in the Dominican. It’s not like they would be off-season work-out partners.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 26, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if Z knows how to swim...
…just a few visits to ARam would probably do the trick. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
z can fly
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 26, 2009 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It's about time he pitched like an ace.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
The cubs won't trade zambrano
All the rumors suggest that the cubs would have to eat a portion of his salary and won’t get a whole lot in return if they choose to trade Z. It would be idiotic to eat salary and get little return for a guy that could potentially be a cy young candidate next year.
The only way Z is traded, is if a team comes out with a real strong offer. I say 95% chance he is a cub on opening day.
75 cents on the $1
I agree, he won’t be traded unless a team like Boston or NY throws in one of their young stud pitchers. Which by all accounts won’t happen.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Serious question
Is Fuld 100% outfielder or does he have some infield experience? He seems to be one of those guys you could afford to use some training time and increase his value for trade / team. He seems to me to be yet another guy whos game does not relate to his position. I know light hitting CF are the norm but not on a Cubs team. Thoughts?
Baker should be starting next year and Blanco, Fuld would be an interesting tamdem?? Not to mention with Baker you have more of that Derosa factor in versitility.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
Fuld is lefthanded.
Thus the only infield position he could play is 1B, and we already have two of those.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
See what I get for thinking
Thanks Al
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 26, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well if you asked him nice
I am sure he could switch to being right handed.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I am leaning toward
Hypnosis or an herbal remedy
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Sep 26, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
for Fuld to switch hands or Doggie to lessen her obsession?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Aw, a break for the girl
The HOF’er is gone…..
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 26, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sharing the enthusiasm
The Giants are the worst offensive club in baseball. They are pathetic. He should mow them down. They suck. When he takes out the Phiilies or Rockies like this, then we can take notice. But the pathetic Giants? Nope, not for me.
We have Zambrano, can afford Zambrano, and should keep Zambrano. Period.
With that said, no one on the Cubs is untradeable. Listen to all offers. Maybe we can upgrade up the middle or add a corner OF with some bullpen help? Who knows what teams may be willing to give up.
The Giants absolutely aren't the worst offensive team in baseball...
but if the sensationalism makes you feel better, then so be it.
yes they are
- in all of baseball with a team OPS of .695. They are the only team in baseball below a .700 OPS.
Care to revisit your statement?
damn
they are #30 out of 30 teams in MLB for OPS.
We could have unloaded Bradley on them earlier
and saved the trouble
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And Rothschild's gonna be the one to fix Zito?
(shudder)
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Isn't Zito kind of fixed?
I guess we find out today, but I think he’s been pitching well recently
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
No No No No
Zito is in a league of his own. His contract is the worst in the majors. No thanks.
"When you're going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
No.
Because they’re not last in runs scored. And that’s what it’s all about — scoring runs. Near the bottom, sure, I believe they were 5th worst. But not THE worst.
whatever dude
it’s not even worth the time or effort
no, you are not
and it’s pretty funny. You try to call me out for hyperbole and when I post how pathetic they are you take 20 minutes to go find 1 stat to prove your point which is futile. They get on base-less and slug less than any team in MLB. Runs scored is not the metric I would suggest using as “unearned runs” add to the total runs scored which skews the overall number as it is not related to how well the Giants play offense. There is no fear when facing them. My points stands.
And given the lineup out there last night, my points stands even more. Move along.
Are you really this dense?
What’s the goal of an offense? To score runs. When you declare a team as the “worst offensive team in baseball” they better score the fewest runs in baseball. There are four teams who have scored fewer runs than the Giants — meaning that those four teams are worse at scoring runs — meaning that the Giants aren’t the worst. It’s pretty simple.
And no, I didn’t take 20 minutes. I took 20 seconds to look at team runs scored.
So, no, your “points” don’t “stands.”
Let it go
He made the point that Z should pitch well due to SF being a horrible offense. You could easily make the argument that team OPS is the best indicator of team offense. Having their team be 5th lowest in runs scored, rather than lowest, does not make his point any less correct.
That you keep harping on it just makes you look petty and annoying.
DEJESUS!!!
runs scored
is not the end all metric for measuring how good an offense is. kepp thinking that though so you can show your lack of knowledge.
No, I am not dense. That’s for the inquiry.
sometimes i wonder if you argue with people just to argue
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 26, 2009 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
are you fucking kidding me?
he repsonded to argue my post.
Youa re the type who posts crap 4 hours after a thread is done. Piss off.
No reason for this type of language.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
No there isn't and please
refrain from using it. JC is correct that you seem to be arguing just to argue.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
clueless Sue
you are clueless regarding this situation. You fail to read and follow the thread.
If anyone was being argumentative it was the responder to my post. Sorry. I don’t buy this.
And coming from someone who calls himself or herself “jesus christos” in lower-case letters has no room to lecture me. This person adds no value to this board and posts 1-liners well after the fact on numerous ocassions.
And by the way, I think this was a snarky reply to me as I asked the same thing of Cubbie-Tim during the “intangible” debate. So, in my opinion, this person is being a jerk to me. So, therefore my reply. So, yes, I had a reason. Sorry if it offended you.
And please don’t single me out when there have been numerous inflamatory posts with foul language over the last week. I didn’t see you in those threads calling people out. Your objection is noted and I will make sure I read before posting trying to eliminate the emotion.
I followed the thread fine.
There are other ways to express yourself with out being crude.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
you continually fail to read, Sue
“sorry if I offended you” and “your objection is noted and I will make sure I read before posting trying to eliminate the emotion”
And you reply to me about being crude? Jeez. Whatever. Good day, Sue Perfect.
She was simply commenting on your language.
There was no need for that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
to which
I apologized. When the flame wars go on and on via numerous threads, I was surpsied to see someone calling me out when backs are turned on all the others. This was the first time in 5 or so years in here that someone said something like this to me.
And by the way, I think this was a snarky reply to me as I asked the same thing of Cubbie-Tim during the "intangible" debate. So, in my opinion, this person is being a jerk to me. So, therefore my reply. So, yes, I had a reason. Sorry if it offended you.
it was not
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 27, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
well done
you again confirmed my previous post. Another 1 liner after the fact. You are special.
i was saying i didnt reply to you in cubbie tims intangible post
but ok
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 28, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
did you see that lineup
they threw out there? That was the wrost lineup in all the major leagues last night to take the field.
Randy Winn has been hitting 3 for them—he of the craptacular .650 OPS. That is an 8 hitter playing in the 3 spot. Sorry. I stand by my statement. They are brutal.
Velez, Winn, Sandoval, Uribe, Bowker, Isikawa, Posey, and Rowand.—yep you read that right Juan Friggin Uribe hit in the 4 hole. But if you feel that’s a great lineup, good for you. This was the Fresno team playing last night with Sandoval down for a rehab assignement.
But we have had a 10 hitter in our infield.
Aaron Miles, of the .457 OPS.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 26, 2009 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
We had Jeff Baker
hitting fourth. I think we were worse.
Yet somehow we beat Lincecum.
by Josh Timmers on Sep 26, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
we had a pathetic lineup
as well. What’s your point? We won? Ok, great we won. Baker has an .853 OPS as a Cub. Not too shabby and 30 points better than the Giants 4 hole hitter.
My point had nothing to do about winning or losing. It was about Z’s performance and he SHOULD have dominated that team. It was not all the alarming of a performance given how pathetic SFO’s offense is. Do you agree?
i give the Cubs a lot of credit
they could have just rolled over once ‘eliminated’ as the Astros have apparently done but are playing hard and professionally. That is encouraging to see for sure. On Zambrano games like this of course are the great Z tease. Talent is very different than consistency.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Sep 26, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions
Mail from So (Taguchi), talking about Z
I almost forgot one more Japanese Cub who writes diary – So Taguchi. He write his famous diary almost everyday since he joined MLB back in 2002 (Dome don’t write new one since Aug 25th though), and his passion, insight and humor have fascinated so many Japanese baseball fans for long time.
Yesterday he wrote about Z write after his shutout as:
When Z shows up on TV screen, he’s always attacking to someone or destroying something in dugout, but my impression on Z’s personalty is always upbeat, heartwarming and great guy.
He always has a great deal of curiosity and is very clever person. He is very interested in Japanese language and always listening I am talking in Japanese with someone from my country, and says “Hey, are you talking about car?”. He speaks a little Japanese greetings and his current boom is “Iikagen ni shinasai!” (“Gimme a break” in west Japan dialect) with perfect accent, just like my hometown folks are talking. I just want to show him speaking this to you fans ;-)
by dragonsfanatic on Sep 26, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
That's great :D
Thanks for the translation, as always.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Not surprised he can speak Japanese with a perfect accent
even if he does not know that much of the language. His imitations are hysterical and the one of Lou might be funniest thing I have heard come out of players mouth, at least intentionally.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions
not having much luck finding it
It is fantastic. I believe he did it right after the no hitter last year. He sounds EXACTLY like Lou , no trace of an accent, just brilliant.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Sep 26, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard it on Waddle & Silvy
last fall.
It was hysterical.
Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave
reply to Al's caption
if he did this every time for the next 5 years, he would win 1 Cy Young and 4 more Carlos Zambrano’s.
Bull
Expecting him to do this every time is ludicrous. No human is perfect EVERY TIME. Even Lincecum isn’t like this every game.
Jerry’s been so distant lately and Lovie barely calls.- Just Dave
Who cares?
Who cares that he pitches well when it doesn’t matter? I don’t. When the game matters he craps down his left pantleg.
I’m just going to say that I think he was our best pitcher against LA last year.
Change is inevitable; progress is optional.
He was pretty good against AZ in 2007, too.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
if only the infield remembered what fielding the ball was...
The official slogan of your 2009 Chicago Cubs:
Why?
by jesus christos on Sep 26, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
stupid post?
Zambrano has a 3.90 ERA over the last 3 seasons. His best seasons come when the Cubs are having a down year. He takes himself off the mound by doing dumb crap like getting ejected, suspended, or hurting himself (or teammates). If a team will take him, and give us talent in return, I would trade him in an instant. He makes too much money for him not to be a true ace. And he definitely isn’t a true ace.
by immessedup17 on Sep 26, 2009 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
This is why Z is our ace
I know it drives some here up the wall, but Big Z is our ace. He is having an excellent season and been worth 3.5 wins this season which is his best since 2006 when he was worth 3.9.
Enjoy watching this guy while you can because he is the best Cubs pitcher to come around since Greg Maddux, but he’s stayed here. There won’t be another like Z for a long time.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Well put
I can see trading Bradley and even perhaps Soriano. But Z should be untouchable. Good pitching doesn’t grow on trees.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 26, 2009 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
About the only reason I’d trade him were if the Cubs had more specific information about his health and from that felt like he might be a high injury risk in the coming years.
That said, I don’t see Z as a HOF type candidate and so I don’t think it’s quite like trading Maddux, although HOF is hindsight. I think what I am trying to say is that I could see an offer being made that a team cannot refuse for Z (and you wouldn’t look back), and if that offer were made I wouldn’t be critical of the Cubs for moving him, but I think the chances are next to nil and they should be.
Z’s an excellent player. I find him frustrating for what I perceive to be actions and behavior that may inhibit his best performance, but to me that’s never a reason trade a player, it just becomes part of the total player and expectations should be adjusted. He seems to be a very well liked guy by his teammates, although I suspect he has frustrated a number of them over the years and probably to a man they want him back. I don’t necessarily have to like EVERYTHING about a player to root for him to succeed and when I am old and senile Z will become one of my most memorable Cubs players.
I don't think he deserves this crap.
I’ve always been a Big Z fan and I guess I can see where the “trade Z” people are coming from. But it still would be wrong to trade him. He is an absolute monster on the mound. He could easily have 14 wins this year if it wasn’t for our inability to hit with risp this year. His blowups arent as frequent as they used to be, hes been a good postseason pitcher, and he knows when hes gotta step up his game. His career stats are the stats of a legitimate ace.
If you remember earlier in the year, his ERA was down to around 3.23 or sumthing around that. his first game back off the DL he had a rough game. thats the only reason his era has been higher than normal.
look at cliff lee. he gave up like wat, 7 runs yesterday? not every pitcher is going to give you 7 innings of shut out ball a night. like every other player, pitchers go through rough patches. Carlos Zambrano is our ace.
"I didn't poke no goddamn rabbits!" 9/2/09
by Chicago White Sux on Sep 26, 2009 10:38 AM CDT reply actions
Zambrano's talent...
…is established and is well know. But, after 7 years in the league, I am more concerned about his productivity, as opposed to talent or potential.
I just can’t get excited about one game against a team that can’t hit in perfect pitching conditions. I look at the totality of the last couple years when I asses what he is likely to be in the next couple of years. I also fear he could be entering a phase of his career when he goes on the shelf each year, and I also believe its likely he continues his inconsistent ways.
At the end of the day, I think Zambrano will be here next year, but I also think people that see him as a true ace, will continue to be dissappointed.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 26, 2009 10:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
That was a thing of beauty
That was the Z we’ve been hoping to see all year. It was great to see him come out of hibernation.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Sep 26, 2009 11:13 AM CDT reply actions
With the strong game, Z just increased his trade value...
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
What impressed me the most was
the mostly-scrubs Cubs lineup and their ability to play small-ball. I only caught from the bottom of the 5th on, but the Cubs showed good at-bats, competent defense and timely execution. It was great to see them play good ball and have fun.
Hey Jose,
Did you get my email?
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Sep 26, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions
One good start
does not make the man.
We all know Zambrano has a world of talent. The problem with him is you don’t always/often get that with any degree of reliability.
This start doesn’t mean you want to keep Zambrano. A whole year of good starts would. He hasn’t given you that.
Hopefully this one good start gets us something great in return.
DEJESUS!!!
this was a GREAT start.
Z has had many good starts this year.
some Cub fans are very hard to please…
are you as hard on yourself at your own job?
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Yes
and I don’t even make 18 mil a year.
I take care of hospitalized children, so I demand excellence of myself every day.
DEJESUS!!!
demanding excellence and living with failure are two emotions that conflict, yet
we all have to live with them.
baseball is a sport that teaches that. the best hitters fail 70% of the time and even the best pitchers will put 20% of the hitters they face on base. As Bob Brenly has often said, the best pitchers are the ones who can get through 6+ innings when they don’t have their best stuff that day. I guess to you, a pitcher fails if they don’t have their best stuff every time. that just is not possible.
.
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
It never ceases to amaze
how some Cubs fans love to flush the baby with the bathwater, Carl.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 26, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Baker
On a different note, aside from all the banter about BigZ, does everyone think Baker and his +.850 OPS will be the Cubs starting 2nd baseman in ’10? Or will Lou use him as a “super-sub” like many believe?
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
He's a natural 3B
But we’ve got that position pretty well taken care of, TYVM. I’d like to see Baker starting at 2B and Blanco starting at SS, but there’s no way that’s happening as long as Riot is wearing Cubbie Blue.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Riot
I love the guy, but I’m afraid the Cubs will never win with him as our everyday SS.
"Repetition is only good when you've been winning." - Valet
Why the hell
is my Fox station showing the RedSox/Yankees game today? I’m hoping they change it to the Cubs as a last minute change.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
My Fox station
is out of Des Moines. It still shows the RS/Yankees game. Think I’m going to go to our Jr. college football game today.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
I'll go see The Informant and catch the remainder of the game via Pat & Ron
…Fox truly sucks. maybe we can pray for rain on the east coast
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
Mine is too :(
But we’re in an AL market.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Yankees v Red Sox in LA today...
Fox decides to show this game in SoCA instead of Cubs/Giants which is on Fox at same time. Oh well, I guess they assume the Angels fans want to stay home and watch their potential opponents. The world revolves around Yankees/Red Sox. Ugh…
"Truth hurts. Maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it hurts." - Leslie Nielson
It was a very nice outing...
…from Z last nite. During pre-game warmups, he was seriously working that slider with Hill. He probably through fifty or sixty pitches as well then.
Baker still looks good, and I wouldn’t mind giving him a shot at starting 2B. Of course, I was hoping that his first go round with Timmy was going to end up out of the park, but it fell short. Next time!
Great game, and here’s hoping for the sweep! Now you’ll have to excuse me, but there’s a ferry I need to catch.
Rickey has spoken. Keep the Athletics in Bump City.
Brenly
There were honoring all the former Willie Mac Award winners who were in attendance at last night’s game, so Krukow pointed out Bob Brenly in the Cubs booth (the Giants broadcast showed him a couple of times acknowledging the cheers) and Krukow said he was the best catcher he’d ever had. How us Cub fans put up with this blatant diss of Tim Blackwell, I don’t know. :-)
But the sportwriters on “Chronicle Live” (their version of Chicago Tribune Live on CSN) asked Brenly how close he came to being the manager of the Giants in the early 90s (when they hired Dusty instead) and Brenly said he didn’t think the new owners back then would have hired him—only if the Luries didn’t sell the team would he have had a chance to manage. But then they speculated on Brenly becoming the next manager of the Giants. Some thought it was a good idea, but others thought 1) that Brenly wants the Cubs job (which I don’t believe at all) and 2) Brenly, as a manager, is hardly any different from Bruce Bochy.
big z
of course you dont trade z. is randy wells a one hit wonder? lily has only one more year on his contract. you never have enough pitching.
Was anyone able to unearth............
…………the answer to the Cy Young question?
When was the last time – if ever – that one hitter had a hit off two different winners in the same game?
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
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