Tough to do, but needs done.
by shepp_uno on Sep 3, 2009 5:20 PM CDT
Email
PrintI'm not sure this can be done, but it needs to be. We have really one or two more shots at most with this great rotation we have. But if we can make these trades happen in the offseason we would have a much better shot at taking home a title.
First; Trading Soriano
His offense when healthy is undeniable great, he can really carry a team when healthy, but his defense likely costs the cubs half a run a game this season, if the cubs are going to make a run it is going to be with pitching and defense. So offer up
Soriano, Theriot, Vitters, and a second tier pitching prospect and cash to the orioles for Jim Johnson and Ty Wiggington
From the Orioles standpoint, they need a star player to put fans in the seats and after an offseason for his knee to heel soriano should have a pretty good 2009 and they can DH him if need be, they get a solid SS which they badly need and they get a 3B to take over the job in 2011, the cubs get another solid bullpen guy to setup marmol and a super utility player.
Second trade Milton Bradley and cash to the Royals for DeJesus
Again getting Milton out of a high media market will make his numbers go way up, plus the royals are dead last in the league in OBP.
Then we can resign Harden to a two or three year deal, resign Grabow, and sign Iwamura and figgins
So our lineup looks like this next year
SS Figgins
RF Fukodome
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
LF Fox/Hoffpauir
C Soto
2B Iwamura
CF DeJesus
Bench
Wiggington
Fontenot
Johnson
Hill
Baker
Rotation stays the same as this year and the bullpen is essentially the same as now with Johnson taking Gregg's place
Realistically this lineup would work better with a manager like Ozzie, Pinella for whatever reason doesn't like to utilize the running game, sure he does the occasional hit an run but that is about it.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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in fantasy baseball...
this could probably happen, but there are no indications that any of those free agents would be interested in coming to the cubs in the first place, and you also have the cash considerations being forwarded to the other teams. if the cubs have a budgetary number, you could easily exceed them without getting the players you want.
money is not the issue
Between soriano and bradley alone, the cubs could potentially shed 38 million for next year, if you even send 10 million in cash in the soriano deal, that still leaves us 28mil in the positive, theriot’s and wiggy’s salaries offset, so we still have 28 to resign harden for 10mil a year, johnson and iwamura dejesus would each cost 3 mil, leaving roughly 9mil to try and get figgins who should sign for somewhere around 6per year. Now you also have to consider some pay raises and departures, which the team salary looks like it will increase by close to 8 million just in pay increases. But we have Miles, Chad Fox, Aaron Heilman, and Kevin Gregg coming off the books which will free up another 9.2 million. Figgins I’ll give you may be tough to get here, but Iwamura has said before that he would like to play with Fukodome.
hate to say it
but we have miles for another year
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Sep 3, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
could we have packaged Miles with Heilman to the Giants?
by cozmotaylor123 on Sep 3, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
He was claimed
and the Cubs decided not to let him go. Why? IDK
"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run for Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray
There is if the other option is paying him in 2010
And I think that’s what Hendry plans to do.
(Archie’s referring to Heilman)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 9, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
please tell me that is a joke
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Hendry loves "his guys"
And Heliman is one of his guys’ guys – Manieri loves Heilman.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 9, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess that's possible.
But, for the time being, I’m choosing to believe that Heilman has pitched so poorly this season that even Notre Dame fetishist Jim Hendry will let him go.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
thats what i was hoping also
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Money is not the issue???
How do you figure the Cubs would save 38 mil between Soriano and Bradley? Even if they were able to shed them both (you have a better chance of winning Lotto) they would save about 28 mil.
Now, back to reality. Soriano is almost untradable, that is unless you want to eat at least half of the remaining 80-85 mil he has on his deal (especially after this year). Bradley is more tradable, but you would still need to eat some of his dough, or take a bad contract in return.
I don’t disagree changes need to be made, but unless Ricketts will allow a payroll of 150+ mil, drastic changes are not coming. You will see one more year of this core group, because that is the position Hendry has put them in. After that, it will still be expensive to unload some of these guys, but you also could be losing (or have to fork over more dough) for Lee, Ramirez and Lilly if you want to retain them.
They are in a tough spot, no two ways about it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Sep 3, 2009 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
you make it sound so easy
for the Cubs to find a team that will take on the salaries of Soriano and Bradley. Oh well, this is the time when all the wannabee GMs come out and dazzle us with their schemes to make the Cubs great. It’s going to be a long off season.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Begin the flames of hell
Interesting thought process, I could see some of it happen, maybe if money wasn’t such an issue. You do know you will be shouting down from the halls of Mt. Olympus? I give you credit for trying at least.
The sun will shine in '69
Are you suggesting trading Soriano, Theriot AND our top prospect
For a relief pitcher and bench player? Seriously?
I would like to sigh Iwamura though.
Just say no to players named Aaron on the Cubs.
Oh my god, where the f do I start?
THE ORIOLES HAVE A STAR PLAYER, HIS NAME IS ADAM JONES
No one is going to trade FOR Soriano without us taking on the large, large majority of the contract.
Why would we want a pitcher and a bench player??
My god, I can’t go on. I need to do some drugs or alcohol.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
did you even watch the cubs this season
You can’t call a guy that hits in the 2 hole a star player, Adam Jones is a great player no doubt, but he won’t ever be a big time run producer that Soriano has the capacity to be.
"you can't call a guy that hits in the 2-hole a star player"
Thanks for supporting the Derek Jeter is Overrated Thesis!
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
or the DP who plays second for boston
how could anyone ever give an MVP to a 2 hole hitter.
I can think of a #2 hitter that won an MVP award...
…and definitely deserved it.
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Sep 3, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+23
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
+HOF
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
He's the manager most of the fans deserve for certain.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 3, 2009 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
plus he can stay awake for the games
unlike Sleepyhead Lou…
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
WOW
So Sori wasn’t a star in Washington because he hit first? Adam Jones has already driven in 70 runs in the 2 hole on the Orioles.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrong
Jones drove in the majority of those runs while batting below 300 in the 5 spot, the orioles found out he is a bad breaking ball hitter so they moved him to the 2 hole so he could get more fastballs.
I don't care how this sounds...
but I’m going to give you one last chance to do some fact checking and retract the last statement before I embarass you and expose you for being a fraud and making stuff up.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
your correct...i was wrong
it was the 3 hole they moved him out of after almost two months…
Also...
he drove in 15 runs in the 3 spot… and 54 in the 2 spot… so that was something you made up as well. Not that a player’s rbis mean anything.
I hope you understand that Adam Jones could do almost nothing with his bat and he would be a superstar level outfielder just based off what he can do with his glove.
He slumped the last month and now you’re going to throw the guy out because he caught his ankle in a freak play? You’re insane. This is his first full season in baseball. He’s only 23 years old. He’s already one of the most valuable outfielders defensively and offensively in the game, and he’s only going to get better.
If you think any team would rate Alfonso Soriano higher than Adam Jones, could you please go run the St. Louis Cardinals for a couple years?
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
SINCE WHEN
Do where players bat in the lineup HAVE ANYTHING to do with their star player abilities???
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
doesn't really...
but there are cases where players only look like stars because they bat in front of players or behind players that make them look like stars. That’s why just looking at a guy’s rbis/runs is a bad way to evaluate a player.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Adam Jones is a great player
He is one of the 5 best defensive centerfielders in the game, but you can’t call a guy a star who hasn’t played a full season
He's one of the top 5 tool-rific players in the game.
I’d even suggest he’s #2 or #3 behind Mauer and Longoria.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
again..
he is a great young player, you always see young players come up hot over their first year..then typically you see a drop in the second…guys like tulo and hell remember eric hinske, al rookie of the year…how did his second year go…
Soooooo, lemme get this straight.
Because a select few of players SUCKED in their second year, it’s risky to get excited over a first-year player breaking out and dominating?
HELLO! EVERYBODY! I THINK WE FOUND OUR NEW GM!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Sep 4, 2009 12:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Eric Hinske
24 homers and 84 driven in and was in the top three voting for gold glove his rookie season, labeled can’t miss, new cornerstone of the franchise, now 5th outfielder for the yankees…if jones is great we will know in year two…if he is struggling now it is because pitchers and scouts have finally figured him out and now he has to make the adjustments…if he is able to do that in year 2, then yes, I’ll say he is a top 5 player
no one needs to explain a one year wonder to Cub fans
Jerome Walton is the perfect example
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
jerome walton may be *THE* example
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I think too soon
since he can still make up for it next season.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
That's not what you said
You said he isn’t a star because he bats second. Which one is it?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
both right now
again…the reason he is batting second is because he couldn’t lay off bad breaking balls, he hasn’t figured out how to make the adjustment…they put him in the two hole because they wanted more fastball opportunities for him
So when Soriano cracked 40 homers a year with Washington in 06
He wasn’t a star because he hit leadoff and couldn’t layoff breaking balls?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
he also had a career high of 160 strikeouts that year and a whopping . 277 batting average
So Andre Ethier
Carlos Pena, Jason Bay and Troy Tulowitzki all suck because their averages are worse or around the same area?
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
didn't say they sucked
and would you pay anyone of those guys 18mil a year for your team
ummm
point is… a guy’s ba ain’t what you should look at.
Tulowitzki is probably worth 18 mil a year right now and he’s getting better, much like Adam Jones. Bay would be close on account of his bat, but his glove kills him. Pena is about at the height of his value and not worth nearly that much.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok they're still stars
And yes, I would give all but Pena, only because of his VERY low average, 18 mil a year.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
sure
because AL pitchers are so scared of the rest of the Orioles lineup that they’re going to serve up meatballs to Adam Jones, and that’s why he doubled his homer total and made the all-star team. Laughable.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm saying...
teams aren’t throwing him more fastballs because he’s hitting in the 2 spot. You only throw a guy more fastballs if the guy in front of him is getting on base and you don’t want him to steal (Roberts has stolen far less bases this year than in years previous) or you’re scared of walking him and having to face the guys behind him with even more runners on. Neither is the case in Baltimore.
Jones has actually been more effective this year against curveballs than fastballs… which has been the case in both of his seasons in Baltimore. His improvement this year has come from hitting curves and change ups better. It has very little do with the fastball.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions
you really should let it go
you are getting badly embarassed here
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2009 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
You haven't heard?
Ichiro sucks because he bats first, so does Derek Jeter. They’re also considering taking some players out of the HOF because they were first or second hitters in their lineups.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't say anything about leadoff hitters
A pitcher will throw a full arsenal of pitches at a leadoff hitter, a hitter in the two hole will get up to 25% more fastballs than any other spot in the order according to baseball reference. The greats would be great no matter what spot in the order you put them, but guys like pedrioa and jones hit in the two hole because they have a hard time laying off bad breaking balls
Wrong again
Guys get more fastballs not just because they hit second, but because they hit in front of a great hitter or behind a great leadoff hitter. Neither of these are the case with Adam Jones. He’s the best hitter and defender on a pretty bad baseball team. This was his second full season and he’ll hit where ever the Orioles need him to hit and he’ll produce. This thread shouldn’t be about Adam Jones. The Cubs wish they had anybody with his kind of talent, upside or production in the outfield.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Er
Your definition of great varies with I call great.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 4, 2009 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you have a link to the b-ref info on fastball percentages in relation to lineup slot?
John Dewan did a stat of the week piece on percentage of fast balls seen by the different slots in the order and the lead-off hitter actually sees the highest percentage of fastballs. His data was just from the 2006 season but seemed to be an accurate representation. I find it very hard to believe that the 2 hole sees 25% greater percentage of fastballs. Here is a link to Dewan’s piece:
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 3, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
i guess thats why so soriano was so good in the leadoff
no sliders in the dirt…
by jesus christos on Sep 4, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I would love to steal
Nick Markakis from the Orioles, he makes a fraction of what our outfielders do and he his consistent
"Okay, just so I understand it...in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil."- Jim Halpert
by ryanbrixenivy on Sep 3, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Um, he is also cost-controlled, and heading into arbitration
Those dollars are going to go way, way, way up….and the Orioles are as likely to trade him as the Cardinals are to trade Pujols
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
Thats why I used the word "steal" ;)
"Okay, just so I understand it...in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil."- Jim Halpert
by ryanbrixenivy on Sep 3, 2009 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention Nick Markakis, Brian Roberts, Matt Wieters.
The O’s don’t lack star power (relatively speaking), they lack pitching.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Why can I not recommend this post.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
There's seriously no where for me to recommend it.
I know where it is, it’s not there.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Sep 3, 2009 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
(dying laughing)
Maybe the Cubs should trade Soriano for Pie instead
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
Give up Vitters for a reliever...
…are you serious?
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Sep 3, 2009 6:11 PM CDT reply actions
Again
In order to get anyone to take on the contract of Soriano you have to give up something in return, they badly need a third basemen for the future. Second, have you seen Johnson pitch…mid to upper 90’s fastball, plus slider, and has killed the AL east hitters this year, bring that to the national league and he will be a shutdown set-up man, or even our closer.
you offered up way too much in that trade
by including Vitters AND cash
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Soriano has one of the worst contracts in the history of the game
He’s been sub replacement level this year, and is being paid 18 million a year over the next 4 years. Vitters and cash is not even close to how much you would need to give up for another team to take Soriano’s contract.
Smoltz.
I thought it was a bad deal when Hendry signed Sori because of the number of years and his age.
Considering Soriano’s first 2 seasons resulted in the team winning the division I’ve changed my view. The fact is this team wouldn’t have made it to the playoffs without him thus I see return on the investment. I don’t think Soriano is as bad as he’s shown since he banged up his knee in April thus I can’t say he won’t continue to bring value to the team. I took a look at fangraphs and Soriano was worth $22.7MM in 2007 and $13.8MM in 2008 while the Cubs paid him $24MM that results in a $12.5MM gain for the team. This season he’s only been worth $2.2MM which is a loss compared to what he’s being paid for the season but it still puts the team at around a break-even point. Soriano has lived up to that contract thus far.
It’s just way too early in this contract to say it is one of the worst in the history of the game especially when the numbers up to this point say otherwise. You must also remember that at some point in the future the Cubs may move him without paying their entire portion of the deal.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions
I mean it is the worst going forward
There is no denying that he has been valuable to the Cubs, but it’s unlikely he will come close to earning the remainder of his deal.
Smoltz.
I would agree.
When they signed this deal, I said, “If they win it all in the first three years, none of us will care about the rest of it.”
That window, unfortunately, is closing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
agree with all the above
and VEP, you have stated why to move Soriano you must give up too much, which is exactly why the Cubs are stuck. NO ONE will take his contract on, unless they are getting a golden reach around in the deal.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Dare I say slamming shut with our fingers still in the way.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
So, it's not the worst ever but it's going to be the worst ever?
We don’t know that yet. You refuse to retract your hyperbolic statement, calling it “one of the worst contracts in the history of the game,” even though he’s lived up to it thus far. People want to believe it’s a bad contract and even when presented with evidence to the contrary they refuse to relinquish their opinion. People just love to say players don’t deserve their money.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions
The Full No-Trade clause
makes it a REALLLLLLY bad deal. Historically the worst? Possibly not, but its really bad especially when no one else was offering him close to the same money and protection.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Epic Fail
That’s revisionist history at it’s finest.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 4, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
If it's true that Soriano is hurt this year
We could be making a huge mistake trading him for next to nothing.
I want one more year before I jump on that bandwagon
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Why wait
He will still be a bad defender next year…we have offense, a platoon of Fox and Hoffpauir would give us power and run production. Just get Soriano off the field.
Welcome back to 1979....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Sep 3, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I ate lunch at Hot Doug's today...
…and I noticed that Dave Kingman had autographed the menu-board next to the listing for “The Dave Kingman”, which I thought was kinda cool. I’m not sure if it’s a compliment to have a chicken sausage named after you but, apparently, Kingman was a good sport either way.
A pic of the menu-board, from some random person’s flickr account.
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Sep 3, 2009 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Was tasty when I went there a few months ago
And based on the line outside, it seems like they could learn from economics and raise prices a bit without hurting their bottom line.
I don't think it's overpriced, for what you get...
The Chicago hot dog, with all the condiments, is still less than $2. The prices on the basic stuff (italian, polish, etc) aren’t out of line with what you’d pay at a greasy hot dog stand. The fancy items (weird sausages, things with goat cheese on them, and the like) are all about $6-8 but that seems fair. After all, where else are you going to find a sausage made with rabbit and topped with a white wine sauce?
I always get something fancy and weird as well as something that I know I’ll enjoy, usually a brat or a polish. Today, I had a Portugeuse Lincuica (I think), which had a really good smooth mustard sauce on it. It was really tasty, kind of like an andouille sausage. My safety choice, a polish, was good too. A bite of my cousin’s rabbit sausage made me jealous, regretful that I’d wussed out with the safe pick instead of going all in on the risky choices.
The downside is always the line. It’s ridiculous on Fridays and Saturdays when they serve fries cooked in rendered duck fat. I waited 20 minutes today at 12:45, and considered myself very lucky. My cousins, in from out of town, were taken aback by the wait but they’ve never seen the line stretch way down the block…which always prompts me to keep driving and say, “meh, I’m not waiting an hour for a sausage, let’s go somewhere else.”
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Sep 3, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Hot Doug's is worth every damn penny.
Just looking at today’s specials is enough to make my mouth water.
The Atomic Bomb: Damn Spicy Pork Sausage with Blood Orange Mustard and Habanero-Jack Cheese
Try to find something like that anywhere else in Chicago. Just awesome.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
That's a waste of a blood orange
And very nearly a waste of an orange entirely. There’s no way anyone is going to be able to tell regular from blood orange juice in a prepared mustard applied to, basically, a hot link with pepper jack.
Case studies quote patients reporting a sensation of "giving way," a "bursting noise" or "sudden explosion."
Doug, the proprietor, used to be the head chef
at a gourmet restaurant but struck out on his own to start this place.
To belittle his creations as “basically a hot link” is to misunderstand what he creates there. You really have to try it to understand.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
I wasn't belittling his charcuterie
I was, however, belittling the notion of “blood orange mustard” as being distinguishable from “regular orange mustard” under the best of circumstances, much less when composed with the heavy flavor palette of “damn spicy pork sausage” and “habanero-jack cheese.”
But now that you bring it up, I find no evidence to suggest that Doug Sohn has ever been “head chef” anywhere, including “at a gourmet restaurant.” Was this anachronistic lingo meant to be intimidating?
Case studies quote patients reporting a sensation of "giving way," a "bursting noise" or "sudden explosion."
Maybe he wasn't "head chef" anywhere.
My memory must be faulty.
But this “anachronistic lingo,” as you put it, is not meant to be any more intimidating than using pretentious verbiage like charcuterie.
I get it. You’re a food snob. It doesn’t make his menu any less delicious.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
No, you don't get it
There’s nothing pretentious about the term “charcuterie” when one is talking about a place that cooks french fries in duck fat. You might also note that I haven’t denigrated the food.
Snobbishness is characterized by an unthinking fealty to ideals that come from “above.” Pointing out that “blood oranges” are not superior to regular oranges in the compounding of prepared mustard is rather the opposite.
Case studies quote patients reporting a sensation of "giving way," a "bursting noise" or "sudden explosion."
Dude
you’re just digging yourself a deeper hole. Christ.
"I wouldn't know a steroid from a reefer." -Lou Piniella
Same could be said about most of our OF's.
Not bad, just average (at best)
The sun will shine in '69
I don't see any reason to platoon Fox.
He’s been far to successful to be locked away against right-handers. In fact, he’s been awesome against right-handers.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
huge mistake?
playing him while he’s hurt is a huge mistake. I would rather the Cubs trade him for next to nothing than just keep running him out there while his injuries render him ineffective. The player he is right now is worth less than next to nothing.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You do understand that the body is likely to heal in the time period from October to March, right?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
of course
You do understand that right now isn’t somewhere between October and March, right?
There’s a much better chance of him healing back to the player he should be if they start the healing process right away, right? If they drop back too much farther, I’d suggest the same about Aramis Ramirez.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions
No way
Even the injured Rammy is still putting up numbers, and his defense statistically wise has been getting better every year. Soriano was a bad outfielder this year and a worse one this year. Even if he does get healthy we are stilled saddled with a bad defender in left with a huge contract and a propensity to play me first baseball, we had a chance to tie the game today in the 7th with a runner at 2nd and no outs in a 1-0 game and he isn’t bunting the runner over…are you kidding…yes let’s take the chance that his sub 200 average bat over the last 3 months is going to hit one out…yes lets
re Soriano
you answered your own question about trading him, and why it is damn near impossible to move him, when you said
bad defender in left with a huge contract
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
but but
i thought every other team made trades with us just for our benefit
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I will give shepp_uno credit for
putting some thought into it, and explaining his thought behind each move. I will not say I think they can happen, but I give him credits for thinking it thru more than many have.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
That's just too much credit, Timbo.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
going to an AL team
he can be a spot outfielder and DH
but then they'd miss out on the hop
so it’s out of the question!
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
never going to happen
No team in baseball will take his contract. Not one dime of it… and the way he’s playing, nobody would pay him the minimum until he proves otherwise… and it’s going to be hard to do that at all when he’s not healthy.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions
but
you also get a top 3b prospect, a legit starting ss, and the potential for him to return to what he was
and for only $90 million?
a bargain
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm thinking...
the rest of the league is just fine having Soriano on our team screwing up our chance at success.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not going to disagree with you there
but andy mcphail has been known to make some outrageous moves so let’s not give up hope
Riot's a 2nd baseman...
…ask anyone.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Sep 3, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and pay his contract
you suggest cash, it would be more like 60+ Million we would have to toss
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
yeah
Aramis is putting up those numbers in a lost season on one good shoulder. We’ll need both of those shoulders healthy to compete for a playoff spot next year. Both of them need to go have surgery and get themselves healthy for 2010. We might want Spriano gone for just cause, but the truth is he’s going to be the starting leftfielder for 2010 and beyond until he proves he can’t do the job again or someone else gets stupid enough to trade for him. That doesn’t mean he has to be the leadoff hitter or even have a prominent place in the lineup, but he’s going to be in the lineup, unfortunately.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano is the most frustrating player IMO
cuz when he is on, its a lot of fun to watch, and when he is off you want to change the station when he is up to bat.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Hopefully
we solved the riddle of him ever batting leadoff again. The last two years I didn’t care that he was on because he was batting in the worst place for his skill set… and there’s always the defensive problems. Numbers were ok before this year, but the fundamentals were atrocious.
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by jameslcrockett on Sep 3, 2009 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
What is "me first baseball?" Would that be playing 4 months with a bad knee because you believe your team needs you?
“Me first,” would be a guy that’s already banked a huge contract sitting out with aches and pains because he doesn’t want to hurt his numbers. Criticize his play but Soriano has definitely given this team his all. You suggest he sac bunt but that’s not his call. It’s the Manager’s call and obviously his Manager believes he’s better at hitting than sac bunting.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 3, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm such a skeptic....
I don’t think that Soriano’s “bad” knee would hurt quite as badly if he was capable of laying off sliders away.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
He's been hurt every year of the contract.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
Yeah
And exactly how many days did he spend on the DL prior to this contract? Dumas
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 4, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
" I want one more year before Ijumphop on that bandwagon "
There – fixed that for you…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Sep 3, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
well played
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Well at least he threw an idea out there
Of course we can go into next with the same exact line-up and does anyone believe we will get a different result?
So this guy’s idea is bad (according to some), what you got?
The sun will shine in '69
lind pv roberts
GETITDONE JIM
Theriot is not clutch, he's double clutch!
by jesus christos on Sep 3, 2009 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course we can go into next with the same exact line-up and does anyone believe we will get a different result?
Yes. Most players on the Cubs have drastically underperformed this year. Remember, this lineup, basically, won 97 games the year before.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 4, 2009 1:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think sums up my thought
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 – 1955)
The sun will shine in '69
Thanks
For the completely irrelevant quote.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 4, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes because sending this line-up out there will surely get us to the playoffs
I mean look how good they did this year, so let’s not make any changes and see if 70 wins will get us there!!!!!
That would be Insanity, hence the quote, but I’m sure you understood that, well maybe not.
The sun will shine in '69
Not quite the same line-up
New 2B, New RF, New closer, and new #5 SP, and no super-utility guy.
Two everyday players, a new closer and a new #5.
The sun will shine in '69
quite a few differences
plus the 97 they won resulted in a sweep by LA.
here are the players who have changed
New to 2009
Blanco, Andres
Bradley, Milton
Freel, Ryan
Gathright, Joey
Gregg, Kevin
Heilman, Aaron
Miles, Aaron
Patton, David
Scales, Bobby
Vizcaino, Luis
Waddell, Jason
Gone from 2008
Bob Howry
Carmen Pignatiello
Casey McGehee
Chad Gaudin
Daryle Ward
Eric Patterson (to OAK)
Felix Pie
Henry Blanco
Jason Marquis
Jim Edmonds
Jon Lieber
Kerry Wood
Kevin Hart
Mark DeRosa
Matt Murton (to OAK)
Michael Wuertz
Rich Hill
Ronny Cedeno
Scott Eyre (to PHI)
Sean Gallagher (to OAK)
so no, it is not basically the same team, that is a lot of changes
now remember that players like Koyie Hill, Angel Guzman and Randy Wells (for example) had very little time in 2008, instaed of being a big part of 2009. Technically, you could think of them as newbies this year.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
The core of this year's team was very similar to last season minus DeRosa and Edmonds.
This year’s team was still projected to be a 93 or 94 win team. There was not a significant drop off in talent from last season by any means. Would having DeRosa and Edmonds here have prevented Aramis and Soriano from being injured? Had Soto, Soriano, and Aramis had this kind of season last year the Cubs wouldn’t have won 97 so saying this team is significantly worse because of personnel is not true. The core is the same Aramis, Soriano, Lee, Theriot, Soto, Fukudome, Z, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marmol. Wells has been good, who can lament the loss of Marquis? Wood has been worse than Gregg this year. The 2009 team has had injuries and under-performance that the 2008 team didn’t. It’s not that a great team was dismantled into a team of significantly less talent. The 2009 team has just as much talent just worse results. Teams have bad years.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I believe key componets were removed
The sum of parts are more than the whole. When they removed certain players, the chemistry was changed and due to injuries holes were exposed. Yes losing just a few componets did cause the collapse of this team
The sun will shine in '69
The team's best hitter was lost to injury for 2/3 of the year that is not going to be overcome by lesser players. No team has a back-up to compensate for that.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
No but a team should have a plan
for when, not if, something like that happens. What was Hendry plan?
The sun will shine in '69
I guess he could have traded for A-Rod to have as a back-up????
No plan is going to compensate for losing your best hitter along with having another star player playing on one leg. No plan would have compensated for the unexpected under performance of Soriano, Aramis, Soto and Fontenot. Too much to overcome. Your back-ups are only expected to perform at an average level for a limited amount of time. Aramis missed too much time and there was no way to expect that or institute a plan that would negate it. You don’t plan on your best hitter being out 2/3 of the year. What team does that? Was there a plan in place in 2007 and 2008 that would have made up for the loss of Aramis for 2/3 of the year? Luckily they were relatively healthy in 07 and 08, this year, not so much.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And Puljos could be a PH
No, I don’t expect them to stock pile superstars to sit on the bench. But when your back-up to A-Ram is Fontenot, you may have to re-think how the time is constructed. If you the GM’s plan for your starters to play 162 games with no relief or injury, then the GM is smoking crack.
The sun will shine in '69
Here, I've found common ground with you gaclaudy.
This is Hendry worst mistake of the offseason, not having any backup for Aram. It’s not as if Aram hadn’t been hurt before either.
And it worse, since he finally realized it in ST, with Koskie, but that didn’t work out. And that one mistake was the trigger for the season spiraling out of control. (plenty of other reasons along the way, but that one was the trigger)
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yes, ARam had been hurt before
and he missed maybe two weeks as a result. Not more than two months.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Sep 5, 2009 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Fontenot looked like a very good player before the season started
He was amazing last year, and has sucked this year. I don’t know how that is Hendry’s fault.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 9, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
When all’s said and done, Fontenot may be my personal biggest 2010 disappointment. Bradley’s slow start isn’t ununusual for a guy in the first year of a free agent deal. And Soriano and Soto have had injuries to deal with. But Fontenot just never seemed to get his feet under him. I still think he’s a far better player than he showed this season.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Accuse me of using hindsight, but
I thought Piniella picked the spots to use Fontenot very well last year.
I think he’s an ok player. Can’t hit lefties, and like his DP partner, not a lot of baseball smarts, which he should have considering he doesn’t have the raw talent.
One example – he still doesn’t cover 2B properly on a stolen base attempt.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 11, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I really can't comment on...
…the covering 2B thing as it’s not my area of expertise. I would point out (as I have many times before) that Fontenot has received fairly high marks from UZR for his career at second base.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
you said
This year’s team was still projected to be a 93 or 94 win team
which is exactly why I have been saying for years, not to take projections too serious.
he 2009 team has had injuries and under-performance that the 2008 team didn’t. It’s not that a great team was dismantled into a team of significantly less talent. The 2009 team has just as much talent just worse results.
and if I had tits, I would be a woman, please dont use that as an excuse the projections are off. the reason they are off, is that projections are based 100% on stats, and remove 100% of the human element.
The core is the same
NO. The core is older, and missing some important parts (mostly mental, and leadership IMO). Weakness’ have been opened up that were not there last season (Font as a starter to begin with).
Would having DeRosa and Edmonds here have prevented Aramis and Soriano from being injured?
well, teachnically how do we know if he would or would not have. DeRosa might have been at 3B that day, and that would have prevented the injury. More important, DeRosa would have prevented Fonty from being the everyday starter for too long this season. If Ramirez was injured with DeRosa on the roster, we would not have needed to trade for Freel to play 3B, nor would Fonty had been pressed into 3B in Rami’s absence. DeRosa also would have been the clubhouse leader it needed. I understand that the trade brought three young arms, and I am not knocking Hendry for moving DeRosa a year early instead of a year late.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Argh
Answer this smart guy. How many other teams could contend when 4/5th of their opening day starters go down to injuries during the season? Team chemistry is by far the most overrated fake thing in sports today.
BTW, the late, great Mark DeRosa is batting a very AVERAGE .256/.329/.441 What would that have gotten us? 3-4 more wins? Big fricking deal, we’d still be 7 games behind the damn Cards.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 4, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
ok slappy
first off, I was not saying DeRosa was the savior. Team chemistry is different than leadership which is a point I made.
want over rated, projections are over rated. Each season you see projections for players that come no where near what the player produces. Why, because the human element is removed, so its a computer version of the season. I understand the point of projections, but living and dying with them is ignorant.
You can say DeRosa would have upped our win total, or lowered it, that cannot be proven, it is nothihng more than an opinion and guess. His stats,playing time, comfort, and our bench stregnth with DeRosa as a utility guy changes the entire team outlook, and IMO for the better.
Again, as i said I am not knocking the trade, it makes sense to grab 3 young arms for a vet utility player, but if DeRosa had no value (as you seem to be hinting at) they why did the Cardinals (a team we are chasing) go out and get him?
you are welcome
signed,
Smart Guy
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
re injuries
two points to that I will make to answer you
1. this is where having a good minor league system, and good scouts allow for kids to step in and play.
2. St Louis had some injuries, and we are chasing them
Todd Wellemeyer
Mark DeRosa
Kyle Lohse
Ryan Ludwick
Rick Ankiel
Chris Carpenter
Brendan Ryan
Khalil Greene
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
add Troy Glaus to that list.
He’s the reason the Cardinals traded for DeRosa.
"F@*& Lidge and the horse he rode in on!"
-Cards Fan in Chitown, via text message shortly after the VEB Get Together Day.
thanks. I figured I would miss a few
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
which is exactly why I have been saying for years, not to take projections too serious.
I don’t understand what you mean when you say this. Projections are simply the best estimate of a teams true talent level. Obviously the real outcome will differ, but the projections are a much better indicator of teams true ability than their record this year.
Smoltz.
i would think that their ability is what they do.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
and I am sure you have a projection of how I am wrong?
I do not see projections as part of its definition
Anyone is able to play baseball, but projecting what everyone can do never will be accurate, it is a guess, based 100% on stats, and is imopossible to include the human elements in it.
VEP quite often I enjoy your posts, and i appreciate your insight, but this is something we never will agree on. Projections are educated guesses, where actual results do not match up. That is why, as the old saying goes, you play the games.</strong>
To determine the season based on stats alone, like a projection is, might as well just plug the numbers ito your XBox 360 and let it determine the results, and that way no one gets injured or has to be booed, etc.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I think you are taking the projection aspect of the word to litterally
Think of it this way, projections attempt to measure each players true talent level, or how they would be expected to perform if they had an infinite number of at bats. However, projections aren’t perfect at measuring each players ability, and even if they were, you would expect a large amount of variance anyways due to the fact that players only have 600 or so at bats, and they have the ability to play better or worse than their true ability over a small sample size.
A team projection, essentially does the same thing, however, it’s less precise due to the fact that it is basically a composite projection of 25 players, all with a lot of variance in their actual performance. That is why you see teams over or under perform their projections year and year out.
So, you see, a projection is essentially an estimate of a teams current true talent level. However, we know that a teams record will not be the same as their projection. When that happens, a small amount of it is because the projections didn’t perfectly measure the teams true ability, and a MUCH larger part of that is that a team has the ability to play better or worse than their true ability in a 162 game season (which is an amazingly small sample size).
Now how that relates to the Cubs here, is that Taco Pie said that the Cubs were projected to win about 93 games before the season started. That is basically the true ability of the Cubs, and 120 games of relatively poor play only nudges that projection down a tiny bit. So the Cubs are still a very talented team, just one that’s been underperforming. However, it’s important to note, that just because they have been underperforming doesn’t mean they will continue to, this year or next.
Smoltz.
Projection is what a team/player is capable
of doing on paper. I understand all that. I do not put too much weight in projections, since players like Rich Hill 2008 show that the reality of human element skew it too much
capable and able are not the same btw.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
you cannot accept
that I do not agree that projections should be viewed as a great thing, and that i should base my season on them, sorry for that, guess i should stop living in reality and live in the land of computerized numbers.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Your being obtuse
I gave you a detailed explanation of what the projections are for, and how reality is related to them. You obviously didn’t read what I wrote, or didn’t understand it, because I made very clear my point.
Smoltz.
you have tried to convince me more than once
to love projections as you do. I have told you before and will again, reality is what matters, projections mean nothing when it is all said and done. I did read it, and have read what you have said about projections on other occasions, when you tried then to convince me, as you are now. When a projection actually wins a game then I will care, until then, reality wins out.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
So in the situation that we were talking about
Which was the Cubs are playing less than their projections. Are you saying they are under performing? Or are you saying that they are performing exactly at their true ability and the projections have no weight?
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 5, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Also, I'm not trying to convince you about the magic of projections
I don’t think you understand how they work, and I don’t think you are understand how they are applied.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 5, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
to try to support VEP here, I'll use an analogy.
If I were planning a trip to chicago for the second week in december, I might want to know what the weather’s like at that time. So, I look on line to see what weather almanacs say the second week in december is like in chicago. Let’s say it’s, on balance, 25 degrees in chicago at that time. The almanacs are relying on decades of information about chicago weather, so I figure they’re pretty reliable.
So I show up for my trip and the weather is nothing like 25 degrees – it’s 50. Or it’s 10 below. Sucks for me. But were the almanacs “wrong”? Well, they didn’t predict the correct temperature. But they aren’t really predictions the same way that the guy on the 10 o’clock news predicts tomorrow’s weather. The almanacs are trying to describe chicago’s “true talent” for being warm or cold.
So, the almanacs aren’t tremendously good at telling me what the weather will be, necessarily. But it will still be more likely that the weather next year in chicago at the same time will be 25 degrees than that it will be 50, or 10 below.
Weather, just like baseball, has a high-degree of random variation to it. Projections may be made in advance based on tons of good data. They won’t perfectly describe what will happen in one game or even one season. The point is that they try to reach the underlying reality.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Sep 5, 2009 4:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
had to ice my thumbs after.
the truth can't hurt you, it's just like the dark/ it scares you witless, but in time you see things clear and stark -- macmanus
by tom s. on Sep 5, 2009 10:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
what is hilarious
is both of you seem determined to change my stance on projections. I work in accounting, I have to make projections about what amount of the collectables are going to be collected, and what are uncollectable. I understand. Just like in collections, the truth is different.
That is why I never hold projections too close to my heart, since reality is not the same as projections.
I tried to stop earlier, but VEP continued to try to convince me to not believe what i see wth my eyes, and to believe a computer instead. Sorry, reality > projections
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
How 'bout this:
Projections can give you a reasonable foundation on which to base your expectations, but you’ll naturally have to adjust those expectations as the season is played out.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I'm with you Tim
So the argument goes, that if the Cubs fall short of projections, it has to be the team underperforming and not the projections themselves.
This is one of those instances that Al rails about, some fans are in love with stats to the point even when the statsare wrong, it means that the real life team is wrong and not the stats themselves.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
how can you know
if it is under performing or not? Let me guess, based on projections, you can prove projections are correct….which is even further proof of the false floor that the projections are standing on. You cannot prove an estimate using other estimates.
Reality says your estimates are incorrect.
based on the projection mindset, if a player hits 250 this season and never hits 250 again, he is under performing sine his projected ability is 275 (just throwing numbers out, not based on anything so to speak) when the reality is he peaked and 250 was his best ability in real life.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
what is your base line for measuring performance?
in other words, under or over perform vs what?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Projections
Past performance.
Obviously, you can never truly know a team or player’s true ability, but you can come reasonably close.
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 10, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I would say the team was constructed poorly by Hendry
Depending on players that had contract years the season before, digging vets that were important to team chemistry and betting on certain players that failed this year.
Hendry is te chief fault for this year. Oh there is plenty to blame:
Lou and his staff not being to take the steaming pile of roste and making it work, a’la La Russa or Torre.
Poor performance by key players
and just bad luck
The sun will shine in '69
Why is it Hendry's fault when players under-perform? Injury to players and bad years by key guys aren't really his fault.
Had Aramis the team’s best hitter not gotten injured this team would probably be in the thick of the wild card race. I can’t see how that is Hendry’s fault. He put the best talent on the field that was available to him with the resources he had. Results aren’t guaranteed.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
You are right A-Ram getting hurt
I believed Hendry could have signed other players, such Abreu or made a trade for Matt Holiday or went after a SS/2B in the off-season. Hendry did make some moves, I don’t believe he chose wisely.
The sun will shine in '69
You know the Cards gave up their #1 prospect for Holliday, right? The Cubs don't even have a prospect that compares.
Abreu’s defense is bad, he’s had a -9 UZR . His WAR has been 2.1 which isn’t significantly higher than Bradley’s 1.6. Abreu wouldn’t have made the Cubs significantly better. It’s easy in hind sight to say what moves should have been made but Bradley was and still is a better all around player than Abreu. Even with a below average year at the plate Bradley’s WAR is only slightly lower.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 4, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I kinda agree
Abreu’s contract was less, allowing more wiggle room for salary to be added, or not let go
Abreu + DeRosa salary = (close to) MB annual average salary, IIRC….
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Hey, still standing by your man?
I was at the game yesterday in LF and laughed my ass off when the best LF in MLB made an error. What is that 12 errors this year? So tell me how are Sorryaino’s defensive stats this season?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
he hs had a bad season no doubt
but i am curious about how his leg is. it is not an excuse, but you have to admit it does change everything if he has been playing injured for months.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
When The Hopper flopped Stone had this line...
That’s what happens when you play a designated hitter in LF, and it’s been happening all year.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I always have apreciated his honesty
but even you have to agree, he has been overboard with negative comments about the Cubs, and it is due to being fired (which I didnt like either). Stone has become worse than Kaplan.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Overboard? What did he say?
The Cubbies won 97 games last year and to many was going to be no regular season just a matter of who the Cubbies would be playing in the post-season and then World Series. The Cubbies are struggling to stay above .500. How or what has Stone said that is overboard?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
like Kaplan
every chance he gets to rip into the Cubs, he does so. Is taht hard for you to understand? Looking for the cheap shot instead of discussing his own team (now the Sox) is overboard.
Again, I loved his honesty, but why doesnt he talk about the Sox more than he talks about the Cubs? It is like many Sox fans, who hate the Cubs more than they care about the Sox.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Speaking of cheap shots...
every chance he gets to rip into the Cubs, he does so. Is (that) hard for you to understand? Looking for the cheap shot instead of discussing his own team (now the Sox) is overboard.
I hear this often from Cubbie fans, but rarely hear examples. I’d like to hear of some examples of how he’s ripped the Cubbies, and I’d really like to know of when he does this unfairly. If Stone rips the Cubs as often as you say, that should be easy for you to produce examples.
I think it’s just that Cubbie fans are overly sensitive to candid criticism of their beloved Cubbies, especially from Stone.
BTW Stone’s paid to discuss BOTH Chicago teams by the Score, so he does.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
ty spelling guru
listen to him on 670 the score, listen to him on CTL and whenever he has the chance, he rips the Cubs.
It is sad, I liked him a lot, he still is one of the best announcers, no doubt. I hated seeing him leave the Cubs, especially how he did. It is cuz of how he was outed by the Cubs that he is bitter towards them
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Still no examples?
Stone rips them all the time…but you can’t think of one example of him ripping the Cubs?
I stand by my comment:
I think it’s just that Cubbie fans are overly sensitive to candid criticism of their beloved Cubbies, especially from Stone.
When you consider the monumental flop of the 2009 Cubs, you don’t think they deserve to be ripped?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
he ripped them starting in the
preseason on the 670 the Score, sorry I cannot link a quote to internet radio from March, April, May, June, July, August, and September, where he has ripped them monthly. I also cannot link you to the TV Show Chicago Tribune Live, where he has taken many jabs, and in some cases warranted, some not warranted.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I remember Stone saying repeatedly...
… that the Cubs would easily win the NL Central and that they were perhaps the best team in the NL.
Damn guy, ripping & dissing the Cubs!
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
what?
no link, like you asked me for to a quote from the radio?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
here is a jab
he said directly to a fan, which I believe is out of line
I had a caller on WSCR berate me for talking about the backloaded contracts. He said, “The only thing we care about is winning the World Series.” I said, “That’s great and you should care about that.” But I said to him, “Give me a call in 10 years. If you have children or grandchildren, and you have to tell them how beautiful the ivy was, and what it was like to watch a Cubs game at Wrigley Field on a summer day. And you have to tell them about it because you can’t afford to go there anymore. When that day comes, call me back and tell me those backloaded contracts didn’t mean anything.”
the entire read is not bad, but there are jabs
They weren’t the only ones who thought that because Zambrano was coming off a missed start due to rotator cuff tendinitis, Piniella should have limited his pitch count. Zambrano threw 110 pitches in the no-hitter.
‘’I don’t agree with allowing Zambrano to throw 110 pitches,‘’ Stone said Tuesday on ’’The Mike North Webio Show’’ on wildfirerestaurant.com. ‘’I don’t care if it’s a no-hitter. The only job that Lou Piniella has to do, and still has to do, is make sure his pitchers are ready.
’’I would have pulled him in the sixth. A manager is paid for some very tough decisions and no-hitters are delightful. You can always say you have a no-hitter.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
this one deserves its own post
Steve Stones tweets about the Cubs
In detroit for the series. Understand a guy named bruce miles believes that the whole bradley story was made up. Who is bruce miles.
From the mouth of dave dombrowski the GM of the tigers, i would not have him on my team. Bradley homered and is closing in on beckham rbi.
Bradley not in cubs lineup today. With cardinals trading for derosa, lugo, and holliday, if hendry doesnt make a trade he loses the division
Rumor is that tigers are interested in trading for milton bradley. Cubs should fly him in a private jet.
Congrats to milton bradley for staying off the disabled list for 75 games as of fridays tilt with cinci. It kicks in a 12mil 2011 contract.
Have you noticed that sox rookie gordon beckham is hitting .304 with 2 more rbi than cubs superstar milton bradley. Milt 10m beck 300 thou.
Jason marquis has the most wins in baseball with 12. Can bob apodaca be that much better than larry rothchild, or did that trade stink.
Its sad that the cubs do not play the angels. Hendry could see abreu, dunn and ibanez knock the seems off the ball while lou teaches milton.
Sox and cubs in 2nd place in respective divisions. Cubs have much easier road to the playoffs judging games remaining. Sox in tough 2nd half
Jim hendrys choice bradley 6hr 20rbi 238ba—dunn 23hr 62rbi 269ba—abreu 308ba 57rbi 17sb—ibanez 22hr 60rbi 312ba. All lefty rbi guys.nice
Milton bradley is benched for the first of the 4 game cardinal series. I wonder if he will take it as well as soriano the other day.
Tony LaRussa has dropped his lawsuit against twitter. I can now criticize cards. I cant do it because they spent 77ml on team. Cubs 135ml.
Jason marquis pithed 8 strong scoreless innings as the rockies shutout the nats 1-0. The cubs paid 5.3ml to trade him. His 11 wins lead NL.
The sox conclude their 7 game trip with KC. Sox 5-1 with one to play. Casey McGehee was 4-5 with 5 rbi. Bradley trails him in every category
Cubs just traded for rockies utility man jeff baker. Insurance for ramirez. The lost casey McGehee on waivers to brewers. How would he look.
For those cub fans that do not know a lot about sam fuld, i saw him tear apart the arizona fall league. Hendry liked felix pie. Nice choice
Jason marquis is 10-5 leading NL in wins. Cubs spent 5.3 mil to trade him. Zambrano and dempster cost 30.75m combined. Their win total-8
Jim hendry made countless mistakes this offseason-look at brewers Casey McGehee. 5 hr-21 rbi- 336 ba. Cubs lost him on waivers for 50,000.
Sox win as do the cubs. Bradley drove in a run and then made quacking hand signs at pirate fans. 17 rbi near july. Big run producer my butt.
Its the complete cub experience-zambrano comes unglued-bradley hits like stevie wonder-soriano loses ball in sun-cubs shutout 6-0.
Cubs miss out on derosa who joins albert pujols in st. Louis. Cards had need and got some. Cubs needed lefty rbi guy-pass abreau-dunn-ibanez
News hot off the presses. Mark derosa is now a member of the st. Louis cardinals. Cubs seem to be a day late and a few dollars short.
Bradley says he feels isolated on the cubs-no real bonds nobody to vent to-in between eruptions mt. Vesuvius is peaceful-then boom. Lol milt
Cubs win first of three. Soriano misses ball in the sun and steps on blanco. Almost cost cubs the game. Fates intervened.
Bradley sent home by piniella after tantrum in dugout. Thrown helmet and smashed water cooler. Hendry believes its bad luck.
After the marijiuana revelations about geo soto he will be featured in j.d. Salangers sequel-catcher in the pie.
Its the calm before the the storm. Sox-cubs 2 and bradley will be benched for the second game in a row. 205 with few rbi will do that.
Sox win a thriller-pardon my michael jackson words.cubs have lost 4 straight on the road. Geo soto tested positive for marij, 30 lbs heavier
Uncle lou getting a little antsy on the north side of town. Look for some changes. Hendry still insists bradley is a run producer.
Things took a unique turn last night as the sox beat baseballs best. It was 10-7. Cubs lose at detroit-bradley fails to break bat over leg.
Sox for some reason hitting 60 points lower at home than on the road. Sox lose 5-2 to LA. D lee of cubs has 20 game hit streak. Milt 16 rbi.
Cubs ramirez getting ready-my guess is after the allstar break. Ramirez has 16 rbi in 18 games. Bradley has 16 in 2 and half months-nice job
the floor is yours Dr Crawdad
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Criticism, sure. Ripping the Cubs? Hardly.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
sorry you are wrong
saying things like
Bradley has 16 in 2 and half months-nice jobis ripping into him, along with how many tweets are poking at MB directly? He knows damn well what he is doing with each one.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
and why does he
as a Sox announcer, feel the need to say such things as
Its the complete cub experience-zambrano comes unglued-bradley hits like stevie wonder-soriano loses ball in sun-cubs shutout 6-0.
Dr Crawdad, you are not a moron, and you know better than to say that these are just criticism, and not directly poking adn ripping MB or the Cubs.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
God forbid that Stone criticize the Cubbies. The 2009 team (as with other Cubbie teams) entered the season with so much hype and hoopla and flopped (dare I say choked) they are certainly not above being criticized by Stone or anyone else with a critical brain.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
he should be critical of the Sox
you know, the team he is paid to be critical about, and stop worrying about the Cubs, you know the team with a better win loss record than the Sox, which happens to be under 500.
This is not about his being critical, but the direct jabs he takes, time and time again, since being let go by the Cubs.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
…and stop worrying about the Cubs, you know the team with a better win loss record than the Sox, which happens to be under 500.
I’m not worried about the Cubbies at all. You should be though. They’ve choked. They’re what 12 games out of first place?
Oh, if you’re point is that the Cubbies are better than the Sox with that 1 game lead over the Sox. How’d the Cubbies do against the Sox this season?
I’ll break the news to you real gentle, since honest candid criticism seems to hurt your feelings…
The Cubbies suck!
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
wow
you missed what I said. Stone should stop worrying about tweeting negatives about the Cubs, and instead be critical about his beloved Sox.
wow, try and read what I say, instead of jumping on one part of it.
try and read what I said again
he should be critical of the Sox you know, the team he is paid to be critical about, and stop worrying about the Cubs, you know the team with a better win loss record than the Sox, which happens to be under 500
now, if by he you thought i said you, then instead of being worried about my opinion on Stone in the current media, you should learn the difference between various words
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Why don't you dig and research his comments...
… and tell me the percentage of time he’s critical of the Sox vs. the Cubs?
I don’t believe Stone rips the Cubs and IF he does it’s deserved, especially this season when they were hyped as the best team in the NL and are 12 games out of first.
By comparison, the Sox were picked by most experts to finish 2nd, 3rd, 4th. On this board folks were all giddy that the Sox would finish in last place.
Who’s more deserving of criticism, the team that’s done better than expected or the team that’s done much, much worse than expected?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
One other thing...
Stone should stop worrying about tweeting negatives about the Cubs, and instead be critical about his beloved Sox.
The only people who read Stone’s tweets are Cubbie fans sifting thru his words searching for anything that is critical about the Cubs.
How about I use your words …
(Cubbie fans) should stop worrying about (Stone’s) tweeting negatives about the Cubs.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
And I stopped posting at ESPN for reasons like this
You don’t have to like the Cubs, but there is such a thing as beating a dead horse. People can criticize this team and there’s plenty to talk about. Stone appears to just beat a dead horse, which is another matter entirely. I think this is what Tim is trying to get across.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
And further beating a dead horse...
… Stone is a pompous ass. No doubt about it. I wonder if that is what actually bothers Cub fans as much or more than what he says.
How about this, if you guys don’t like Stone ignore him?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
my point Dr Crawdad
which you continue to miss, is there is no need to end every sentence (so to speak) with a “Cubs suck” type of statement. Stone is a damn good basebal mind, but has put his personal issues with the Cubs front office in front of his ability to talk rationale about the Cubs and baseball. Trust me, I am critical about the Cubs, but I do not need to take a jab after each post at the team.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
HYERBOLE ALERT!
there is no need to end every sentence (so to speak) with a "Cubs suck" type of statement.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
you are a lost cause Crawdad
ignoring facts given, and playing stupid when we all know you are not.
I am done with you, since you are jsut a waste of tie
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Your comment was dumb...
… I had ONE statement saying the ‘09 Cubs suck. Rather than blasting the Cubs, I’ve had literally dozens of posts here commending the Cubs. In fact I thought they’d win the NL Central this season AND up till about a month ago I was saying they were in it when Cubbie fans were kicking the dirt after losses.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
somehow you have changed what I state
to YOU when each has been about STEVE STONE!
you are not that important knucklehead
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Steven Stone has been ripping...
…Jim Hendry and Milton Bradley continually throughout the 2009 baseball season on Twitter.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Same line-up huh?
I don’t recall but I don’t believe Gregg was a set-up guy last year (Nice 5 run 8th there Gregg)
The sun will shine in '69
I have a feeling this is going to go down in the BCB HOF of FanPosts.
And not for a good reason.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
The only thing keeping me from consigning it to the dustbin
is that there were actual ideas — maybe not worth much, but at least ideas.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Let the photo hijacking commence
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
hehe
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
that can't be the reds
look at all those baserunners. as dusty would say “walks clog the bases” :)
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, but
where are the toothpicks??
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, it sure can't be the Cardinals
No way Bob Gibson lets a cat chew up on his right arm like that without at least putting one in the cat’s ear next time up.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Angels?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
LMFAO
I got to snag it, hope you dont mind.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Lets pick up this hamster
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
how about we trade vitters fukudome and soto
for the hampster and ADAM LIND?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Ump says...
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Hey man, don't get me wrong, I don't know you, you don't know me, I'm not attacking you as a person.
But this trade wouldn’t even be allowed in a fantasy league:
Soriano Johnson
Theriot for &
Vitters Wiggington
That’s our best prospect, a player that is actually pretty useful (Riot), and a man that used to be one of the best in the game (and still might have fuel in the tank, who the hell knows), for a career bench player (think DeRosa, only bad), and Johnson.
Oh, and Milton Bradley tried to attack the Royals announcer, so that probably won’t work.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
According to some at BCB
Off field issues in the past have nothing to do with what a player does on the field and therefore should not be part of the decision in taking a player on.
The sun will shine in '69
so, if I understand this correct
the season is not over, no one ahs filed for free agency, been offered arbitration, Ricketts has not completed the purchase of the Cubs and has not set a salary cap for hendry to work within
yet we have the next off season set with the moves we should make.
ok…………….
Do you, sir poster of the off season moves, have any inside knowledge as to the trade ideas you suggest, or are you pissing in the wind with ideas?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
pissing in the wind for the most part..
I was really just trying to start up conversation on this, but the royals were looking for an OBP guy at the deadline according to most papers, and of any gm, Mcphail and hendry probably have the best trading relationship, and we can actually fill needs that they have, and hopefully eleviate some of our troubles
I only have one thing to say
GET IT DONE JIM!!!!!! and please, cue the facepalm pics
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
Soriano
Needs to go over Bradley. Miles and maybe even Font before Theriot. I dont see the smarts in having your platoon in r/f being Fox/Hoff.
That defensive platoon would be worse than Soriano was his first two seasons here.
Fox and Hoff can’t throw runners out and they have no range. Soriano was actually a plus defender in left his first two seasons with the Cubs. This season with the bad knee his defense has seen a steep decline.
by Acapulco Taco Pie on Sep 3, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions
BCB Hall of Fame Ceremony
Eric Hanna
Fanofthebulls
Shep_Uno.
The official induction will be the day their trade ideas actually happen. Please attend.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
Can i bring a date?
because i’m so there
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
Everyones invited.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions
must be on PPV
so we can DVR it
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
WTF?
I thought alcoholic beverages were complimentary for all invitees
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
This one is going to be fun for the next few days...
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
hehe i know
i must say, these do cheer me up. :)
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
After all the bs we put ourselves through
we need posts like these to bring us all together. :)
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
So true
I haven’t been around too much the last month of so because everything just gets crazy, but when I read this post I just had to jump in.
"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver
by wrigleyrocker12 on Sep 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Amen!
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
who gets more recs
HANNA or shepp
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
so this post
is up for the ERIC HANNA award?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yeah, but it's still a ways away
There are only a few photos. There are few of us here. _uno actually has a thought process. This is miles away yet.
Hanna will be tough to beat, but lets give it a try.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Hanna is unbeatable, i think
BUT THAT"S BECAUSE HE HAD THE BEST TRADE IDEA EVER BECAUSE ADAM LIND IS A REALLY GOOD HITTER
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
it has to be the
spelling and caps usage that makes his so superior
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
+1
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
idk, the OP is in the room, this might be fun with him here.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
In all fairness...
…I would not dump Shep_Uno in with that ignominious company. While I don’t think this trade scenarios is particularly realistic (Hendry probably wouldn’t trade Vitters just to get rid of Soriano), I do think Shep_Uno put some thought into this and has at least stuck around to defend himself rationally and with some good humor.
We can probably expect a lot of Fanposts like this in the coming months.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
and we all should have Google Images at the ready...
Oh what the heck – why wait until then? Do a Google Images on “Google Images” and check out the first one that comes up. You can thank me later…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Hmm... I don't know about "very" - her assets were suitably covered/clothed
plus it was on a site called “scientificblogging.com”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'd say that was SFW
Nothing inappropriate about it that I saw
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Supposed to be all caps
Fail
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
ADAMN LIND
his name cannot be mentioned on this site unless it’s in all caps. How else will anybody hear his name?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Lets all play baseball
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
no way
you cannot make trades in that version
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
What is best in life?
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I vote for...
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
let me say it this way..
I really love beer.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
How about wringing the beer from a wet t-shirt?
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Now we're going somewhere
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Oh the possibilities will be endless with this post.
Can’t wait for SWL to get going.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
i'm still waiting for the first of many facepalms..
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll have a double...
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
holy facepalm!
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
And to think I got this conversation started with the intent of quoting the Conan movies
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
There's a lot of NSFW on the intrawebs
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
like this post?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
But I'm having fun searching...
Like, I just found out a girl who was on the LL Cool J sitcom is now a hooker.
Wait...
there was a LL Cool J sitcom?
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Sep 3, 2009 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess this is going to have to be the recap thread
until 11 PM CT…. Al is experiencing technical difficulties per his tweet.
Just saw.
There’s not much else to be said about that game though. And I don’t want to lambast anyone or anything—other than stupid Aaron Miles for his incompetence and Lou Piniella for his stubbornness.
so you need to just create a macro to run
every night in the recap thread lol
by LT on Sep 3, 2009 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay we're at 7 rec's, go to keep it going
It’s like Maris chasing Babe.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I guess we live in Fantasy land
nobody is taking Soriano off our hands
Kevin Gregg is the Mother F'n Anti-christ!
This thread will reach the status of legend
Keep up the recs. Go go go.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
only 8 so far
a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go for HANNALAND
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
This post is pure 100% pure kickass
Also, could someone post a link to the ERIC HANNA post that started the madness? I missed it the first time it made the rounds…
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/6/30/931029/cubs-need-to-make-a-trade
HERE YOU GO, GOOD SIR
by jesus christos on Sep 3, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHA
I’ve read like the first five comments and I’m laughing my ass off. I may print this and put it on my bathroom mirror to read every time I need a laugh,
"Your eyes can decieve you. Don't trust them." Obi-Wan Kenobi, the first sabermetrician...
by Curtain Jerker on Sep 3, 2009 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions
we need an AMBER ALERT
for ERIC HANNA
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
good times
this is a must read
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Borat approves
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
This is the first time that I have read this post.
Is this an example of the Game Thread tirades and rage being harnessed for good?
Ummm......
Do you realize that after seeing Chone Figgins attempt to play SS for about 3 weeks you will be dying for the return of a “good” SS like Ryan Theriot??
I’m not sure but that Mike Fontenot would be a better SS; certainly Miles is. There is a reason that Scioscia uses Figgy at SS only in an emergency….
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
certainly Miles is
you give miles too much credit
by jesus christos on Sep 3, 2009 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Miles better at SS than Figgins?
seriously?
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Sep 3, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
"better" is probably a relative term
I haven’t watched too many Angels games over the years so I can’t claim to have seen Figgins’ skills at SS. Still, Scoscia a) loves putting Figgins on the field, just about anywhere but b) won’t play him at short. Miles is a wretched shortstop but I can’t imagine that Figgins is much better, considering that he’s a manager’s pet but has hardly played the position since 2004.
A competition between the two would probably be about as sad as watching two bald men fight over a comb.
"I'd rather play baseball than eat." - Andy Pafko
by LaddieRenfroe on Sep 3, 2009 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
This is a valid point.
Figgins has played only 150 innings at SS in his career – and he’s no spring chicken.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
just cuz he is not a spring chicken
does that mean he cannot be a yardbird as well?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Yes, because he can't play guitar as well as Jeff Beck.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Let's get Adrian Gonzalez while we're at it
Maybe we can also swing trades for Johan Santana, Tim Lincecum, K-Rod, and Heath Bell while we’re at it.
Actual thoughts on this:
Don’t resign Harden. He will be to us what Carl Pavano was to the Yankees.
Don’t resign Reed Johnson. He is getting old, and is injury prone.
There is a reason Chone is not playing shortstop for LAA. Don’t put him there.
Don’t trade Vitters for Jim Johnson and Ty Wigginton. They won’t be able to take on Sori’s salary, and if we want to trade Vitters, he can get us MUCH better players than those two. That trade is in such heavy favor of Baltimore, and if you really want Wigginton, I believe he is a free agent after the season.
We can get a higher return for Bradley than David freaking DeJesus.
While we're trading
Aaron Miles for Erin Andrews.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Clothed...
…or unclothed?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
as long as it doesnt become
Erin MIles and Aaron Andrews
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
HELLO TO MY FUTURE SELF!!
You are f-ing awesome, and rule at life.
This post will go down in BCB history, and I was here not only to witness it, I was apart of its take down.
Dan
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
but his defense likely costs the cubs half a run a game this season
I hope you realize how ridiculous that sounds. A half a run a game is equivalent to about 80 runs over a full season.
Smoltz.
Second trade Milton Bradley and cash to the Royals for DeJesus
And why the fuck would the Royals do that? DeJesus is better, cheaper and less injury prone than Bradley.
Smoltz.
I ignored both these comments.
1/2 a run a game is, well, irrelevant when we’re dealing with these trades. You’re too smart.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
OK, maybe this Fanpost is a little more ridiculous than I thought.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Geez, when are you gonna drop it from all your posts?
“Your gonna get flamed” on all threads, “You can’t bring up off field issues”, “Some people here like Bradley”.
Drop the baggage, enjoy the site, talk about the Cubs, life will be much more fun and constructive if you can get past some stuff.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
I was just giving friendly advice to someone
to prevent them from getting what I got. Not once did I mention anything specific.
The sun will shine in '69
I really don't
want to see platoon of Fox/Hoff in LF next season. Let Soriano get healed up and see how he does next season.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
If Eric Hanna's post was a Picasso
this is cheap motel art.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
Of course it would be the Bates motel too.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
Hey they said that about Andy Warhol
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
i saw the epic problem....this post needed to be ERIC HANNA'd
I’M NOT SURE THIS CAN BE DONE, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE. WE HAVE REALLY ONE OR TWO MORE SHOTS AT MOST WITH THIS GREAT ROTATION WE HAVE. BUT IF WE CAN MAKE THESE TRADES HAPPEN IN THE OFFSEASON WE WOULD HAVE A MUCH BETTER SHOT AT TAKING HOME A TITLE.
FIRST; TRADING SORIANO
HIS OFFENSE WHEN HEALTHY IS UNDENIABLE GREAT, HE CAN REALLY CARRY A TEAM WHEN HEALTHY, BUT HIS DEFENSE LIKELY COSTS THE CUBS HALF A RUN A GAME THIS SEASON, IF THE CUBS ARE GOING TO MAKE A RUN IT IS GOING TO BE WITH PITCHING AND DEFENSE. SO OFFER UP
SORIANO, THERIOT, VITTERS, AND A SECOND TIER PITCHING PROSPECT AND CASH TO THE ORIOLES FOR JIM JOHNSON AND TY WIGGINGTON
FROM THE ORIOLES STANDPOINT, THEY NEED A STAR PLAYER TO PUT FANS IN THE SEATS AND AFTER AN OFFSEASON FOR HIS KNEE TO HEEL SORIANO SHOULD HAVE A PRETTY GOOD 2009 AND THEY CAN DH HIM IF NEED BE, THEY GET A SOLID SS WHICH THEY BADLY NEED AND THEY GET A 3B TO TAKE OVER THE JOB IN 2011, THE CUBS GET ANOTHER SOLID BULLPEN GUY TO SETUP MARMOL AND A SUPER UTILITY PLAYER.
SECOND TRADE MILTON BRADLEY AND CASH TO THE ROYALS FOR DEJESUS
AGAIN GETTING MILTON OUT OF A HIGH MEDIA MARKET WILL MAKE HIS NUMBERS GO WAY UP, PLUS THE ROYALS ARE DEAD LAST IN THE LEAGUE IN OBP.
THEN WE CAN RESIGN HARDEN TO A TWO OR THREE YEAR DEAL, RESIGN GRABOW, AND SIGN IWAMURA AND FIGGINS
SO OUR LINEUP LOOKS LIKE THIS NEXT YEAR
SS FIGGINS
RF FUKODOME
1B LEE
3B RAMIREZ
LF FOX/HOFFPAUIR
C SOTO
2B IWAMURA
CF DEJESUS
BENCH
WIGGINGTON
FONTENOT
JOHNSON
HILL
BAKER
ROTATION STAYS THE SAME AS THIS YEAR AND THE BULLPEN IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME AS NOW WITH JOHNSON TAKING GREGG’S PLACE
REALISTICALLY THIS LINEUP WOULD WORK BETTER WITH A MANAGER LIKE OZZIE, PINELLA FOR WHATEVER REASON DOESN’T LIKE TO UTILIZE THE RUNNING GAME, SURE HE DOES THE OCCASIONAL HIT AN RUN BUT THAT IS ABOUT IT.
GET IT DONE JIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 4, 2009 3:02 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
work 07
its a one click change to all caps
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
work =-MS Word
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
no way in hell
I woudl actually retype it all in Caps
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
UNLESS
YOURE ERIC HANNA IN DISGUISE
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 5, 2009 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
but since i have so many typos
i would have screwed it up lol
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
When I saw all the rec.
I was excited to read this.
I’ve been fooled again!
Maybe I should do a new top 10 list:
“Top 10 Reasons why you should think before actually posting on BCB”.
I cannot get rec this post the twice
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Time to get this thread back on track...
…with a good case of Bjorn-ography
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ok, let me help .. Tough to do, but
Standards Of Cub Pulchritude
Standards Of Forked Tongues Speech
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Born-ography? - Another Cub fan is born.
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
That's tough
DeJesus is NOT a CF. I have seen about 200 Royals games the last 2 years. He is a very good LF, a avg – below avg CF. And there is no way Bradley would go to KC after trying to go in to the booth last year to kill their TV announcer Lefebvre who made some rude comments about him.
SERENITY NOW!!!!!
Just to show that BCB is a classy joint, jackets are required here...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Here's a jacket for Blou too...
Say this much for big league baseball - it is beyond question the greatest conversation piece ever invented in America. ~Bruce Catton
New home unis for 2010
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
some traditions just never need to change
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
marla we still miss you
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
neifi, guess what
i find it hard to miss you
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
soriano is a -80 defender?!
holy wow
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
also
it’s kinda funny that you think these really bad teams are gonna take on big contracts. especially that soriano contract. yeesh. 18mm/yr for the next five years?! good luck unloading that to anyone
Of course, hope means being cut down on some street corner, as you run like mad, by a random bullet.
we
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
just
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
don't
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
♪♫ "Red light, green light, strawberry wine..." ♪♫
Anyone? Anyone?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
♪♫ "...good friend of mine, follow the stars. Venus and Mars are alright tonight." ♪♫
Venus and Mars Rock Show, McCartney & Wings.
See? The 80s did not have a complete monopoly on bad music – the 70s had its share…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Admiral Halsey notified me ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Anyhoo ..
What needs to get done? I dunno. Where do we start?
So much went wrong this year and the Cubs were never really in synch. There was never one real issue to point to. This team should have been better .. and just wasn’t.
The bullpen would fall apart and the bats would go cold, with RISP’s scattered to the winds. The Bradley drama finally settled down but was a needless distraction. With Soto and Soriano in abysmal slumps this year, not to mention the loss of production from Ramirez and Fontenot we just never saw the machine prime up at all. Lee soared and Fukudome’s resurgence was a sight for sore eyes. Guys would get hurt (God, do I miss Reed), come back, and then the hitting would heat up again, like it just got a snoot full of nitro .. and then die again.
It’s been maddeningly uneven. All they can do now is play like the dickens now and hope they can sneak in to the WC now. I’m stating the pathetically obvious. Giving Blanco, Fox and Hoff some more time the next couple of weeks to play might be a hidden spark to ignite something that the Cubs have long lacked .. an even burning fire.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Anyway, back to gratuitous imagery related to the Cubs
What, no ivy? What a rip ..
Now, I LIKE this .. makes me want to take up whittling and woodwork again ..
I bet they had to do a fireman’s carry on this chick to get her out of left field .. and afterwards, take a long shower .. blech ..
You can’t get any more on spot than that ..
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
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