Replace Jim Hendry
by incurable on Sep 5, 2009 1:52 AM CDT
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PrintAlright, the miserable season is all but over. It is "wait till next year again." And there is plenty of blame to go around, some of it because of injuries, some of it on the field, some of it with the field manager (he is still trying to figure out the best starting lineup.) But as the old saying goes: "A fish rots from the head down." In the Cub's case, in my opinion, the 2009 odor comes primarily from the trades made in the off season. I don't have to name them. All Cub fans know what trades I am talking about, who we got, who we gave away, how much was spent (I think we have the third most expensive roster), and how it all came out. And who made those trades? Why, Jim Hendry of course. (And he refuses to take the responsibility.)
So I have some advice for the new owner: Start fixing things by getting rid of the head, the General Manager. I wonder how many Cub fans agree with me on this? I have not done this before so don't get on me if I do it wrong. But I would like to conduct a poll.
Those who agree with me and say replace Jim Hendry (and I don't really care with who but Steve Stone would be a good choice), vote YES; those who want Jim Hendry to stay on, vote,NO.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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My vote is no
Jim Hendry is not all responsible for this season. Pitching has not been the problem, the bullpen at times yes, but mostly it has been our offense. Out of the 8 everyday starters from last yr only Edmonds in center and DeRosa at 2nd are gone, replaced by Bradley and the Baker, Fontenot, Miles, Scales, and whoever else has chipped in at 2nd. 97 wins last yr to 67 wins so far this season. I dont think Edmonds and DeRosa helped win that many more games. Aramis being out for 50 some games, Soriano being hurt, dropping pop outs, slipping on the grass when just standing there waiting for a fly ball, Big Z, Harden, superman himself Lilly being all on the DL has killed us and Aaron Miles.
Look its hard to win a division in back to back yrs unless youre the Braves or Yankees, and the way the Cardinals are playing it seems like they lose once every other week. Thats baseball as they say you cant win them all. Im just saying its just not Jim Hendrys fault. As far as the Wild Card goes, as my little buddy in Angels in the Outfield would say “Hey it could happen!”
"Women...you can't live without them, and they can't pee standing up." Rube Baker
by Eric16 on Sep 5, 2009 3:06 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
While you are correct that...
… Hendry is not “all” responsible, he’s the one who put together this roster. Lou throws up his hands and says “What can I do”? That’s a veiled slam at Hendry, I think, for not giving him good players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They should both be out of a job next year
This roster was their idea.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
It was Lou's idea, really.
Hendry’s poor execution of the idea didn’t help, admittedly. But the impetus came from Lou (“we’re not lefthanded enough”) Piniella.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hopefully something is done about the front office situation
If Ricketts wants to give Jim another year, I say that should only be if Lou rides out the final year of his contract. Once Lou is done, don’t renew his contract and send Jim packing no matter the results.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Even a World Series
Though I don’t expect that to happen.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
That's just silly
If you bring a guy back, you give him a chance to stay.
If he’s gone no matter what, let him go now.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I would let him go now
The thing is, I don’t own the Cubs.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
exactly.....I dont understand this concept
…of letting Lou finish his contract. He will most likely retire after next season and he has quit on this season.
Why on earth would you want him in his retirement season? I have lost a lot of respect for Lou this year. His players didn’t execute and he basically has as Al mentions above thrown his hands in the air.
Fontenot replaced Derosa
After Fontenot’s ops was over 900 last year. I wasn’t in favor of the move, but I understood it. Other than that, there was no significant move to get more left handed (miles replaced cedeno, hill replaced blanco).
Roster construction, specifically fontenot over derosa, has hurt. Why Jim decided to not get a backup third baseman is baffling as well, and also hurt.
But the biggest problem this year has been two guys we counted on last year failing abysmally this year. People can harp on roster construction all they want (and personally, I’d like to see Hendry let go anyway), but Soto and Soriano’s absolute failure is the problem with this team. Dero’s 103 ops plus would’ve been helpful, no doubt, but the biggest difference is that the guys who lead us to those 97 wins last year have not repeated that performance, or come even close.
It may not be all his fault
but he has ultimate responsibility for putting a team good enough to win it all together and he has failed. He had pretty much all the money he needed to do the job and yet he has yet to put together a winning combination. It is not as if he has not been given enough time or money for cryin’ out loud! How many more years of not making it to the WS will it take before you admit he is not up to the task? Time for a change.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
like in any business
the head gets fired, since it is easier to do that, and less expensive than firing the entire staff who have failed the head.
a GM and MGR are hired to be fired in every sport.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
no
like most of the players jim has had a bad season. a few years ago when the trib opened up hendry could go get players like soriano and lily. last winter with no money he ended up getting guys like gathright and miles. i think he,s done a good job. if you can get theo epstein or billy beane then i will gladly change my vote.
You're right
The fate of the Cubs season relied on Mark “I walk on water” DeRosa. If they wouldn’t have traded him away, it’s simple, Cubs win the World Series this year.
Idiot fucking Cub fans deserve this year. And they deserve next year when Sam Fuld or Jake Fox are starting in RF after Milton Bradley requests a trade in the offseason and the Cubs lose 90 games.
So... wait
You make fun of people for saying DeRosa would have meant a World Series ring.
Yet you say with a straight face that Bradley is the only thing standing between us and a 90-loss season?
Whatever, dude.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Yes I do
If retards can say that DeRosa is the reason this team sucks, then I’m saying they will be worse without Milton Bradley.
OK, we're done
No interest in someone who uses that language. Rot in hell.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Milton Bradley is the reason we don't have 90 lose season
with only two outfielders playing, most teams would hit it to the big hole if RF
The sun will shine in '69
Well your wrong
For the record, check out what DeRosa has done for STL. Very very little offensively (don’t watch many of their games to see defense). If he had an output like this for the Cubs, we wouldn’t be winning games. Compare him to RF with Bradley and Bradley has been much better all year.
I really like DeRosa but look at his numbers…we had him for his two best years.
DeRosa ...
… suffered a wrist injury within a week after being traded to St. Louis. At the time it was thought he might miss most of the rest of the year. It’s clearly affecting his hitting.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Say what you want
But I would have preferred DeRosa at second this season instead of Mike Fontenot. There’s no reason we could not have had Bradley in right and DeRosa at second this season.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Either way
It doesn’t change the fact that Fontenot’s bat was mostly a non-contributor this season, but that’s more than you can say about Aaron Miles.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
It depends if you subscribe to the theory
that Fontenot his natural defensive position improves his bat.
And not for nothing, but DeRosa could have replaced Soriano OR Bradley when one of them got hurt.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Right.
No one is saying that Mark DeRosa’s presence would have, by itself, made this team a World Series winner.
But it damn well would have been a better team than the one we have now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's going to take DeRosa doing something good for the Cards in the playoffs
before some people get it. And others won’t get it then.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Which individual on the Cubs
would you have dealt to get three quality pitching prospects?
DeRo was our only deal-able veteran.
It’s sad, but true. Even if he hits 8 homers in October.
So we're a team that worries about prospects now?
C’mon, that was not the reason DeRosa was sent off.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
There is a window of opportunity
The ages of Soriano, Lee, Ramirez, Dempster and Lilly, not to mention the mentality of a Pinella, do not allow for worrying about guys who won’t be in the big leagues consistently for three years.
DeRosa would have solved a lot of problems this year and prevented problems like Miles from happening.
Does it mean 125 victories and a World Series sweep? No, that’s a little straw man others like to put up.
But I’m reasonably sure it translates to something besides 11.5 out in the division and 7 out in the Wild Card.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And getting beaten in three or four
in the first round by the Phillies/Dodgers/Giants/Rockies
And having less pitching in the pipeline.
And people on this blog saying, “This is worse than last year.”
Jerry Krause fired Doug Collins because Krause didn’t think Collins could win a title. He replaced him with a guy who’s pro head coaching experience was in Albany of the CBA.
This team might have eked by and won something. Or not. We needed a legit overhaul to be able to look like as good of a team as the Yanks/Red Sox. Are we there yet? Obviously not. Would the likelihood improve with a different GM? Maybe yes, maybe no.
I like the way we’re heading, but only because we are starting to develop legit talent in the pipeline. That is what good teams do.
Will Lou’s replacement be the next Phil Jackson? Dunno. But Mark DeRosa wouldn’t have made us an elite level team in 2009. We decided to start planning for 2011, methinks. I have no problem with that if we have a representative team that looks like it could contend every year.
St. Louis broke the bank to try to win in 2009.
Despite it all, I’m happy. The weather is fine. I’m healthy. Birds are singing. And the Cubs will be a decent looking team in 2010.
Jackson would have done nothing in Chicago
without JORDAN. I would bet my left testicle that you remove Jordan from the Bulls of the 90’s and Jackson does not get credit for being anything in coaching. Look at the teams he has won with (Jordan/Pippen, Jordan/Pippen/Rodman, Shaq/Kobe, see a trend?)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Torre wouldn't have won
without talent.
Lombardi wouldn’t have won without guys buying into his system.
You need the guy in charge to lead his team. Collins wouldn’t have gotten it done, but obviously a coach needs talent.
Collins wouldn’t have gotten it done
we dont know that.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
The team wasn't tough enough under Collins
It would have been a moot point if Jordan misses the shot against Cleveland. Pippen would have been dealt, and Cleveland would have been the team to unseat the Pistons in the East. In that game, the Bulls ran one play in the fourth quarter. (I have the game on video. I should watch it again soon.) High screen roll with Cartwright freeing up MJ for a one-on-two mismatch with MJ chucking it to the corner for a three ball if help came.
That beats Cleveland, but gets flambeed by Detroit.
Enter PJ. Enter the Triangle. ’Nuff said.
first off
Jackson was an assistant to Collins for 3 seasons.
second, look at the roster from Collins last season to Phil’s first season, neither are great, but they both failed in the playoffs.
1988-1989 – Collins Last Team
Bill Cartwright
Dave Corzine
Charles Davis
Horace Grant
Jack Haley
Craig Hodges
Anthony Jones
Michael Jordan
Ed Nealy
John Paxson
Will Perdue
Scottie Pippen
Dominic Pressley
Brad Sellers
Sam Vincent
David Wood
1989-1990 Jacksons First Team
B.J. Armstrong
Bill Cartwright
Charles Davis
Horace Grant
Jack Haley
Craig Hodges
Michael Jordan
Stacey King
Clifford Lett
Ed Nealy
John Paxson
Will Perdue
Scottie Pippen
Jeff Sanders
I am not saying Jackson is not a good coach, but that he has won with top-tier talent, and superstars more than his ability to coach a team of lesser talent (see the two season without Jordan in Chicago for proof of that)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
those years proved he was a very good coach
But for Hue Hollins, the Bulls go to the title without MJ. An NBA Finals team without a clutch offensive player. It is very rare.
1993-1994
Without MJ, here is his roster
B.J. Armstrong
Corie Blount
Bill Cartwright
Jo Jo English
Horace Grant
Dave Johnson
Steve Kerr
Stacey King
Toni Kukoc
Luc Longley
Pete Myers
John Paxson
Will Perdue
Scottie Pippen
Bill Wennington
Scott Williams
they lost in the second round to the Knicks that season. This did prove he was not a bad coach, but if he was the God DeRosa of coaching some seem to think, he wold ahve won another title that season.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Collins couldn't get it done with virtually the same team Jackson had.
Are you going to tell me that Bill Cartwright made all the difference?
Give Jackson at least some of the credit. I’m sure Jordan would.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
see my comment above
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
and FYI
Cartwright was there for Collins as well.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Barely. One year.
Bulls got him for Oakley after the ’88 season.
So far, the only major differences I see are Armstrong and Jackson.
I’m going to put my stock in Jackson and the triple-post offense of Tex Winter.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
I'd rather have taken a chance on winning THIS year.
Stevens, Gaub and Archer might be good. Or not. We already knew what we had in DeRosa.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As I said below...
I live in the future. My decisions are based on two decades in the future on a personal level. I have no problem with trades for the future. It sucks we didn’t have anything else legit to trade.
Let us know how the scouting of preschool Little League games is going
Because those are the prospects we’ll have two decades into the future.
You do realize you sound fairly pompous with all this, right?
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I've been called worse.
I’d rather be the Cubs (not mortgaging their future) than the Sox (emptying their system for a chump middle reliever, and Jake Peavy, as well as picking up Rios for a salary that is similar to Soriano’s.
I know I’m supposed to live and die with every loss. I don’t. I like the team. I’m already priced out of attending games. I’ve downsized my cable and rarely get to watch.
I call them as I see them. Popularity on a Baseball blog isn’t as high on my list of priorities as listening to a good symphony on my IPod. Again, DFA me. Or disregard me. Whatever. I’m still waiting to hear who this wonderful GM candidate is that will only sign good contracts and trade people three weeks before they start to suck.
The Cubs traded Felix Pie for Aaron Heilman.
So basically, they simultaneously mortgaged their future away while trading their useful MLB players for maybe-could-be-useful-middle relievers.
Pie has been absolutely nails for the O’s since the Huff trade. He’s outperforming Bradley in every relevant statistic during the “good” portions of their years.
I call them as I see them, too – and this offseason is, and was, completely indefensible.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
That's kind of silly.
If you’re going to run an MLB team, the goal is to win the World Series. The Cubs had a contending team, and have a built-in advantage which will allow them to outspend the vast majority of their opponents every year.
They had a veteran roster that was built to win immediately. The idea that you HAVE to trade DeRosa just because he was the most tradeable commodity is wrongheaded.
The idea that you have to trade him for three arms that you project out as - ideally - mlb middle relievers is ludicrous.
Even if all three of these arms pan out and turn into nice MLB middle relievers, so what? The Cubs are a major market team that can bludgeon other teams with their payroll, and middle relievers make, relatively, squat.
Say Archer, Gaub and Stevens all hit it big in Cleveland’s bullpen. Rather than paying them, Cleveland would/will jettison them for cheaper prospects. And the circle of life continues.
The Cubs don’t need to trade a bird in the hand for a pig in a poke. They should accumulate elite prospects whenever possible – and the only time that’s really going to happen is the draft, because we shouldn’t be in the business of selling off useful MLB parts — but they should have absolutely zero interest in piling up minor league middle relievers at such a huge cost to the MLB roster.
Also, cut the condescension. We’re all smart around here, and capable of “making decisions with an eye on the future”. The thing is, you have to discount future value appropriately.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
No
They are NOT all smart around here. In fact, there are many, many idiotic morons soiling up the site.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 7, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't seem to bother the Cards
to ship off their best prospect for Holliday and trading to get DeRosa. They seemed to justify what they did, wanna check the standings and let me know.
The sun will shine in '69
those moves were made
to convince Pujols the Cards want to contend for years to come, and to extend his contract (this is what I was told by a friend from St Louis, and it makes sense)
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Think that is the added bonus to the trades
They had to show Pujols that they were commit to win. Otherwise Pujols would be the new starting 1B for the Red Sawxs
The sun will shine in '69
as i said in another post
when ARam was injured, for all we know, DeRosa would have been at 3B that day, giving ARam a rest, avoiding the injury. Lou had no one he felt good about putting at 3B to spel ARam before the injury. DeRosa would have fixed that .
Doesnt mean we win a WS because of DeRosa, but there are many differences I see with and without DeRosa.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
YOU ARE 100 % CORRECT............
I sat with the thousands of other Cub fans at Comerica Pk in June . ( Let’s think back the Cubs blew all three games ) . Fontenot played third and did a poor job at it . I am not putting the series on him but he did not help the cause . The Tigers fans sitting behind us kept asking where was Dero …….Go Figure ….
Since you're firing him
What is the name of his replacement?
What was the last front office job he held?
Actually, he has been mentioned. The similarities to Stoney and Hawk Harrelson running a team seem freakily similar. I’d rather have Hendry.
::shudder::
I’d rather have Yosh Kawano.
"Was you ever punched in the face five hundred times a night? It stings after a while." ~Rocky Balboa
I guess you were serious about Stone
but, why?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
If he becomes
the GM for the Cubs I will no longer cheer for this team.
Recipe for Disaster;
C'mon Cubs, hurry up and blow this so I can relax.
by Bluekoolaide on July22, 2009 3:08 PM CDT
Oh, lord, not this again.
The “Steve Stone for GM” posts are getting as bad as the Peavy/Roberts posts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
but not as bad as the Miles = the anti-Christ posts
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 6, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Maybe we can trade for a 2nd Baseman
I hear Baltimore has a decent one, what’s his name again?
The sun will shine in '69
lind??
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 6, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
YES
people who swing at the first pitch should get punched in the face
by jesus christos on Sep 6, 2009 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Stone would trade for Peavy and Roberts
Miles for Roberts, Heilman for Peavy.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I've got three
Gerry Hunsicker
Dan Feinstein
Mitch Lukevics
All three are in the front office of the Tampa Bays Rays are responsible for the scouting and minor league OPS.
Wanna rebuild a team from the ground up, these guys have done it before.
The sun will shine in '69
I've heard of Hunsicker
I wouldn’t mind any of the three. A track record is vital.
Again, I’m thinking long-term. I expect a work stoppage in 2011. I hope the Cubs are well-positioned by then.
Feinstein is a "Moneyball" disciple
while Lukevics is the directory of the Farm System.
Hunsicker had previous GM jobs with Mets & Astros.
I think anyone of them would change the thought process with the Cubs.
The sun will shine in '69
And how do you know that their teamwork isn't part of how they've done well?
Teams have tried raiding successful systems and it has worked out poorly in nearly every case.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 5, 2009 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Jim Hendry
is very likely to be better than any replacement we find. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 6, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Couldn't disagree more...
…and the main reasons are not because of his poor offseason, but go much deeper and into the core of the organization.
The Cubs need a lot of improvement to be considered a “top flight” baseball organization. Their scouting, player development and overall organizational philosophy is seriously flawed. It this remains status quo (keeping Hendry in charge), you will have the same issues come up in future years, and everyone will be screaming for another manager to come help save the day (just as you have seen over the last 10 years).
I say focus on the big picture and get the organization heading in the right direction, and that would mean Hendry would not be calling the shots.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
In other words
you think Hendry is incapable of learning and that the team’s drafting hasn’t been improving.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I think he has proven...
…that his philosophy is firmly entrenched, and it has shown in the numerous areas I have discussed about Hendry for over 2 years on this board.
There is a reason the Cubs have gone through managers (like shit through a goose), their young players lack fundementals, they have misread their own talent’s capabilities, they have stressed 5 tool players (without a tool box), and they are constantly overpaying for position player FA’s to fill holes (because they can’t produce their own). Also, roster selection (how the pieces fit together) has been poor, and there has been far to much of fitting a round peg in a square hole, and that rarely works – unless you get lucky.
If you want Hendry to continue overseeing the entire baseball operations, that’s your opinion and you are certainly entitled to that. IMO, I don’t want Hendry to have the power to hire another manager, oversee the organizational philosophy (drafting, scouting, player development), or putting a roster together. I have no doubt Hendry will be around in 2010, but if no one is put in place above him (to make these calls), I strongly believe it will be a huge oversight by Ricketts and will set the club back even further than it already is.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
If you don't think Hendry can learn
then does that mean the shift from five-tool free agent signings to high-OBP valueing is a fad, that it will only last as long as Lou?
It’s amazing to me that you think Hendry hasn’t changed over the past two years.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not trying to be funny, but -
What five-tool free agent signings are you referring to?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano isn't a perfect 5-tool player
but he’s of the mold of the kind of player I think we’re talking about under the designation “five-tool.” In other words, I’m assuming that in this conversation the definition of “five-tool” is a little fast and loose.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok, I'll give you Sori
But he’s pretty much the only one.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not what I said...
…and I think I have made myself abundently clear in regards to what Hendry’s deficiencies are.
It’s all about flawed philosophy and judgement, the high payroll can only cover you for so long.
In regards to Hendry changing, people were blaming Dusty because he wanted certain players (not Hendry) and now many are doing the same thing with Piniella. Boy, that’s a great gig if you can get it, call yourself a GM and than we have most people blaming poor roster construction on the manager.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
It was mentioned in another post this week
about the Cubs philosophy in building a team and developing players. That does come from the top.
I have felt that Jim Hendry often feels like he is building an American League team. We have a bunch of first basemen and DH types on the major league roster and throughout the minors (sorry Jake and Micah.) Unfortunately, we have a sold first baseman, and the National League does not use the DH.
As far as trades and free agents, I made the comment years ago that the upper echelon teams were shopping at Marshall Field’s and the Cubs were shopping at K-Mart.
Excluding re-signing our own FA’s, look at the last few years at who we have signed: Ted Lilly (good) Soriano(mixed) Bradley(mixed to poor) Fukudome(mixed) Miles (do I need to say?) I guess I also get tired of Jim’s dumpster diving. Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds worked out, but Freel, Gathright and many more to list did not. David Patton? Not a good track record on FA’s.
I also feel that Hendry gets tunnel vision on a player (Bradley) and will over pay. Rafael Furcal is another example. Hendry was so focused on Furcal, that when Furcal signed with the Dodgers, Hendry panicked and overpaid for Pierre. He also seriously overpaid for Soriano. Five for $90M, but eight years?
I am not going to pillory Hendry for Wood and DeRosa. Where I am going to take him to task is for not having suitable replacements. Gregg has been warm and cold. But given his numbers in pitcher friendly Miami, why would anyone be surprised in a more neutral or hitter friendly park like Wrigley? Fox and Hoffpauir have been nice, but they are the same player, one from the left and one from the right.
I have also been mystified by his public comments. OK he was PO’d over Sosa. Fine. But what good does it do to trash him in public and release the video. All it did was drive down his trade value. Jim seems to sell low and buy high.
Scouting and the farm system? Scouting we are near the bottom and it shows. Look at how we perform against a pitcher we have never seen. That is advanced scouting. When was the last time we have had an impact minor leaguer come in? What about our past drafts. How many top level draft picks (for the years we had them because Jim hurried and signed FA’s costing us draft picks) have really excelled in the minors?
What I want is someone to come in with a team philosophy and stick to it. For years, the Orioles had their way. The Braves and Dodgers have their way. What is the Cubs way? If you can’t answer that question, then you should vote yes.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
the Cubs way in the mid-90's was...
get arms, any arms, at all costs. That, and free agents. In the last two or three years, the draft classes have been very good. I’ll get ripped by some, but I defy anyone to point out some of our lousy picks the last two drafts. I’m waiting.
We haven’t had any effective bats in the pipeline for too long. That will change as Lee, Castro, LeMahieu, Jackson, and a few others get older. Oh, yeah. And Vitters.
Points well taken on the last two or three years
But Hendry has been heare a lot longer than that. What took so long to figure it out? This has caused the Cubs to go out and buy Bradley, Fukudome, Reed Johnson, Jim Edmonds, Aaron Miles and the like because the farm system did not develop them. I’m sorry six years into the job is a little late to have an epiphany.
The one thing I also forgot to mention. What is Jim’s philosophy on managers? Get the big name? OK. But what is their managing philosophy? I haven’t seen any consistency on that either.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
When you have no pitchers, you hafta draft pitchers.
I’m not sure ‘his keepers’ allowed him to invest in the monors as he should have . I wasn’t there. If you have no arms and no usable minor league bats ready, you buy Alfonso Soriano. And buy two division titles, at the cost of a brutal contract.
I’m sounding like a Hendry fan. Really, I’m not. We’ve had much worse GMs.
The key to the Cubs going forward will be
a. Tom Ricketts. What will his philosophy be? Is he going to hold people (coaches, scouts, administrators, etc..) accountable? Will he encourage a solid minor league system? Maybe hire more scouts? Does he have a plan to upgrade revenue? All will help in determining the Cubs mid-range success.
The Farm System. The most likely way a team becomes successful is by developing talent. Especially well-chosen talent. Especially well-chosen talent that stays healthy.c. Fan support. If we continue to sell most of our tickets, we should do fairly well.
There are others, including who the GM is. But outside of ‘some guy from the Indians organization’, I haven’t heard a credible candidate mentioned to replace Hendry. If he is replaced by someone that is a complete nincompoop, that will be a step backward. Hendry is a C+/B- GM, like him or not. If Theo Epstein calls Ricketts to take the job, dump JH. If the replacement is MacPhail, we lost with him (worse) already.
The farm system was his responsibility.
The failure to develop any MLB bats whatsoever falls on Hendry’s shoulders. Moreover, the laser focus on drafting pitchers and only pitchers during Hendry’s term resulted in some pretty high-profile whiffs, and very little in terms of MLB production.
I agree that we’ve had worse GMs. I cannot fathom that we have had any GMs who were more careless with the Cubs’ resources. His overspending is unparalled, really, in MLB history. $135M, and not one elite player on the roster? Has anyone ever accomplished less with more?
I can see a C+ grade for Hendry. At times, he did brilliant things. Unfortunately, he threw $4M deals at everyone on the roster, and shopped in the bargain aisle for his major acquisitions.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
SNORE
He developed the reigning NL ROY and you say he hasn’t developed any bats yet? You people make me sick. And your assertion that there are no elite players on this team is completely laughable and beneath contempt. All you have to do is look at 1B & 3B for christ’s sake. Harden is a legit #1. Soriano before this year was a top LF and his current year can be explain by injuries and luck.
Goddamn, all he’s done is put us in the playoffs 3 of the last 7 years. And even with all the goram injuries to 4/5 of the starting rotation and injuries to their #1 & #4 hitters, they’re still above .500. My god, just look at the Mets to see how bad this team could have been. This is the absolute worst case scenario that NOBODY ever possibly envisioned back in April and THEY’RE STILL A WINNING CLUB. This pogrom of Hendry has got to stop.
Every time I think it’s getting better around here, some idiot starts a new dump Hendry thread and all the snerts come out of the woodwork and spout off the same stupid things over and over again. It’s a never ending cycle and I’ve had enough.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 7, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
We've discussed it before -
Miles, Gathright, Vizcaino, Gaudin – all fiscally irresponsible moves – and that’s just this past year.
Hendry loves throwing $1M – $2M/year at problems, then wonders why his hands are tied.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the smallest front office
in MLB. Ons of the smallest scouting group in MLB. Thats the Cubs.
Not hendry’s faukt. He cannot expand an office when not given the finances for it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I seriously doubt that.
If Hendry was given $5M to spend on Aaron Miles, $3-4M annually for Howrys and Eyres, $3M annually for Blanco, and $2M annually for Neifi, I can pretty much guarantee that he could have gotten an extra $500K-$1M to spend on more and better scouts. He’s the General Manager of the entire organization, for crying out loud.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand what you are saying
and I am just basing on the fact that we have the smallest front office and scouting staff. Neither of us know who is to fault, Zell, Tribune, or Hendry for that. I tend to believe it is more Zell/Tribune than Hendrys call on the amount of staff in the front office.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Bingo!!!
…and those who blame a small scouting staff on the Trib are really missing the boat.
If Hendry can convince the powers at be to give him a 4 year deal, 10 mil bucks, a no trade clause and a guranteed roster spot to spellcheck, I refuse to believe the Trib woundn’t fork over 1 mil to expand the scouting staff.
The truth (IMO) is this; Hendry is a good ole boy who likes guys around him who are like him and have the same philosophies. Expanding his staff makes it more difficult to assure everyone is “one of his guys”, and his comfort level would go south.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
the last time they had an impact minor leaguer was Geovanny Soto
or Carlos Marmol or Randy Wells. Even Ryan Theriot was only 2-3 years ago
by philadelphiacub on Sep 5, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Charlie Wilson's War
For those of you that didnt see the movie, a story was told about how things look good or bad and how people react in the short term. A Zen master kept saying “we’ll see” looking at the long term.
After last year, you would have been dead on about Soto. Now after two years? We’ll see.
Last year Marmol was lights out. This year? Not so much. We’ll see.
Ryan Theriot, nice player, but not a SS, doesn’t have the arm. Last night’s throw on a simple grounder where Castillo beat the throw proved that. We’ll see.
Randy Wells. Nice season so far. Next year? we’ll see.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
We as Cub fans all live in the NOW, but it’s hard to ignore back to back division titles. I’m sure the majority on this site can remember the trult brutal GM’s this team has had. A truly brutal year for Hendry, with the futue not looking to promising, but the guy deserves to try and get out of it. One other note, any poster who wants Steve Stone associated with this club loses all credibility with me. He has way to many opinions about a team who plays usually at the same time he is announcing for another team.
by Comfortably Numb on Sep 5, 2009 8:24 AM CDT reply actions
I don't
I live in the future. Always have. Always will. DFA me.
"Always will...."
Sounds like the Pirates. Always looking to the future…. when the prospects turn into contributors, it’s time to trade them for more prospects.
The Cubs eventually need to have their moment. That requires building a winner for TODAY.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
My take
I think a lot of people on this board are missing the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is that the Cubs have always been challenged offensively.
Last year the Cubs were at the top or near the top in the league for team BABip. That should regressed to the mean right? The Cubs did lose valuable producting when they traded DeRosa. However, much more importantly than that, were the HUGE loses in production from Soriano and Soto. Add to that the loss in production from the loss of Aramis + the fact that the Cubs regressing was expected, and what do you get? The 2009 Cubs. The signing of Miles shows Hendry still has no clue sometimes. Bradley has not driven in runs, but his numbers are certainly not awful.
So, the decisions made to get more left-haded, while they didn’t work for the most part, are not the reason for what we’ve seen. Certainly not the most important reason.
The 2007 Cubs hit nothing in the playoffs. The 2008 Cubs did the same. Think that is a fluke? Think again.
Hendry can build a good pitching staff, but the guy does not evaluate hitting talent very good. Ironically, the guy who didn’t care about BB drawn signed in the last years two very OBP oriented guys. Sadly, it has not worked, and surely not helped by some of his other dumb decisiones.
That’s basically it.
He's also responsible
For cubs going to post season for back to back seasons for the first time in 100 years.
It’s not his fault players were not on their A-Game this year. If everyone was healthy and played to the potential they’re paid and expected to be at this team would be competing with Cardinals for 1st place right now.
If Cubs fail in 2010 then bye bye Jim.
No, it's not his fault
That the players did not all bring their A game. His fault was not having a contingency plan in place in case the players did not bring their A game to the table or there were injuries.
A case in point is a suitable backup at third base. Having to move the player you had penciled in as your starting second baseman over to third when your third baseman gets hurt is not good planning.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
by cubfred on Sep 5, 2009 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
People need to remember
we have been more successful under Hendry than any GM before him. His problem is he tries too hard to improve at times, even if its a big gamble. Like anyone else playing craps, sometimes you roll the dace and get snake eyes.
I give him 2 seasons under Ricketts, since I have no idea off hand how many of these contracts coming back to bite him were direct orders of the Tribune or Zell, who wanted to cash in on the Cubs before selling and handcuffing a new ownership group.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I say Lou and Hendry
have one season with Mr. Ricketts. If they don’t show any signs of life, or at least enough life for Ricketts, they will be out the door.
The sun will shine in '69
Works for me
I wouldn’t mind a third or fourth guy from Tampa being brought in to ‘emphasize’ that. Is Randy Bush any good at his job? No clue.
Hendry has his faults but replacing him with Steve Stone????
I thought the object was for the Cubs to win? Hopefully that was a joke.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Steve Stone is a
‘known commodity’. People know he exists. He says things regularly, some of which are very spot-on. That doesn’t make him a quality GM candidate, any more than ‘name’ veterans are wise pick-ups when DFA’d.
The pitcher that the Cubs picked up in their latest dumpster-dive, Diamond, is an unknown. But the off-the-beaten path types often end up the wiser picks. Like the guys mentioned in the above post from Tampa. In three posts like this, those were 75% of the reasonable ideas I’ve heard.
I really don’t mind (getting beaten up in) posts like this. I wish more ideas were brought forth. More ideas, less venom.
As said before by many
Steve Stone is in his mid 60s. If he really wanted a GM job, he would have pursued it years ago. He’s on record as saying a GM is a “young man’s profession.”
Just because the guy WAS a good color man (now he’s Hawk’s caddy) doesn’t give you the resume to draw up contracts.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Sep 5, 2009 11:06 AM CDT reply actions
exactly
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 5, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
To take that one step further...
Despite his comments, I believe Stone would have jumped at any opportunity to join a front office. To my knowledge, he has never been pursued for a job which speaks volumes in itself.
Milton Bradley: My New Favorite Cub
I agree...
…and trust me; Steve Stone would be a bust as a GM, and on top of that, no one would hire him for that position.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Stone would never take the job anyway
He knows he could never handle the pressure and all the 2nd guessing. In the booth he can pop off with little or no consequence as he has zero impact on the game’s outcome, but as a GM he would actually have to show results. He wants people to think he is some sort of baseball genius but he does not want to have to prove it.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 7, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends if there's fire to go along with the Alderson smoke
If he DOES become Cubs President (with Crane Kenney reassigned), then maybe he makes an impassioned plea to Billy Beane. Maybe Alderson talks Beane into believing that Lew Wolff and the other A’s owners deceived him about the Fremont stadium deal, and they have no intention of making good on the other assurances they gave Beane.
Other than 5 playoff berths this decade with extremely limited resources?
His teams finished 1-2-1-1-2-2-1 from 2000-06, despite the fact that Beane basically had to trade away every top contributor every offseason.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 5, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I seem to remember an ALDS win.
The malleability of the pro-Hendry argument is a constant source of amusement.
Apparently, Hendry’s 2 NLDS losses and 1 NLCS loss, (tallied while spending hundreds of millions of dollars annually), are more impressive than Beane’s 4 NLDS and 1 NLCS, which were acheived on a shoestring budget.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 6, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
(obviously, ALDS and ALCS. Typo.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 6, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
He's done real well recently 2007-2009
Hendry has done better recently than Beane.
Hendry is spending more than twice as much money.
It may soon be three times as much money.
You have to compare apples to apples.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
same old garbage.
He worked his magic into a last place team. He seems to have gotten NOTHING for trading his top players. Beane is highly over-rated.
He did more with less than any other GM
It would be very interesting to see what Beane could do with a real budget to work with.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Sep 6, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what's worse...
the contention that Hendry should be gotten rid of, or the lack of a poll in a post that’s all about taking a poll.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Sep 5, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions
Hendry Add
I have been studiously reading all the comments since I posted the proposition about Hendry. I agree that there has been less poll and more talk. But that’s okay because although I wanted a poll, I for one, enjoyed the comments. Some actually agreed with me, some did not, and many talked about tangantial issues. But let me make the following point: First off, I did not blame Hendry solely for all the Cub ills. I said there was plenty of blame to go around. And I know Hendry has done some good things and knows baseball. But my point is that if you want a new era, which I believe the new owners want, they should start at the top. That’s how it is done in most successful endeavours. Sure you can fiddle with the middle but in order to make a statement, you really should start at the top and work down. I have to believe that someone who spent 800 plus million to buy this team, has some ideas for the club. I am certain he does not want another century of failure. I also believe it is reasonable to assume he has new people in mind for the Cub organization. So I am suggesting that he should begin at the top. (No, it does not have to be Steve Stone, that was just musing.) But there are probably enough talented baseball people around who are available and should be considered . (No, I cannot name them but I bet my assumprion is rational.) And if the new owner also wants a new field manager, I would not blame him either. I like Piniella, and sure he could not win without performance by the players, but again, he did not produce and ultimately that’s the bottom line. What I mean is that if all the new owner does is replace a couple of trainers, it will be nothing but a joke. And waiting another year to see what Hendry and Piniella can do is more of the same. We had three years of it and it only got marginally better. My hope is that the new owner knows baseball, wants the Cubs to change their ways, has some serious baseball people in mind, will not run the organization from a distance as did the Tribune. For me that spells starting at the top.
The new era started already...
Since 2003, the Cubs have won the division 3 out of 6 years (soon to be 3 of 7), and have finished with 85 or more wins 4 of 6 years. The way you win world series titles is by making lots of playoff appearances, and the Cubs have done that under Hendry’s regime.
He’s been a great GM for this team. He’s made his mistakes, but everyone does. No need to get rid of him.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Sep 5, 2009 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
So, the case against Hendry boils down to
1) I’m angry about the season.
2) Hendry is in charge.
3) I’m angry about the season.
Ok.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 5, 2009 9:55 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Very nice logic
glad you understand.
Now that we’ve got that covered let’s move on to the replacement then.
The sun will shine in '69
You want to make sure that the replacement will be better, first.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 6, 2009 6:42 AM CDT up reply actions
It's a whole lot more specific than that.
Every time I look at a box score and see “Pie, LF – 4 2 2 2, (HR, 7)”, a little part of the Cubs fan inside me dies.
His offseason was bad on a level that exceeds most bad offseasons. It may be the measuring stick for all future bad offseasons by Cubs executives."
And for that matter, every time I think of Hendry’s post-2006 statement that “I didn’t hear anyone saying we shouldn’t go after Juan Pierre when we made the trade…”, I get even more disillusioned. Can he really be that far out of touch? Cubs fans (and the Chicago media) were almost universally and unanimously against that trade from Day One.
He has advantages that 90% of MLB GMs do not. And he makes mistakes that are just remarkably obvious from the moment they are made. His performance over the last 12 months is grounds for his dismissal. And the contracts he’s bound this team to will hamper the Cubs baseball operations for years to come.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 6, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Your touching the surface here.
…His performance over the last 12 months has been poor, but it’s only part of the story. The spending spree post 06 and 07 was a nice temporary bandaid, and it covered weaknesses this organization has had for many many years. Now, a culmination of things are coming to the surface, but the major problems with the Cub’s organization were simply laying dormant until the right circumstances have made them clear for all to see.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Jim Hendry wanted Felix Pie to be his CF.
And he is to be faulted for letting Lou mismanage Pie and then giving in again by dumping Pie and taking Lou’s old player Gathright.
In other words, I’m not saying Jim Hendry doesn’t make mistakes. I’m saying he’ll be missed, because the next GM is likely to be worse than Jim Hendry.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
The disheartening thing is, I agree with you here.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Again...
…if you look at the “big picture”, I think you have very low expectations from a GM if you think it is almost assured a potential Hendry replacement would be worse than he.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think that Jim Hendry does enough things well that it overcomes his weaknesses, and
I also think he is learning and growing as a GM. But what good does it do to have the player production, of say, SF, if you have a GM like Sabean who throws good young players away on A.J. Pierzynski and Freddy Sanchez? At least Jim Hendry wins most of his trades. The big loser trade he made was for Juan Pierre – and at least there he 1) got what he wanted; and 2) learned that he wanted the wrong thing!
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
He also lost on:
Marquis for Vizcaino
Gregg (low cost in personnel, but was that the best option?)
DeRosa trade for 2009 (playing for the future with a “win now” roster)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
He won on Aardsma for LaTroy
But he lost on Aardsma for Cotts.
He also lost on Damian Miller for Michael Barrett, all things considered. Some guys just aren’t cut out for being catchers, and the Cubs mid-decade slumber coincided precisely with the Barrett era.
Of course, he may have won on Barrett for Kyler Burke.
But most notably for today, he lost on Pie for Olson, and on Olson/Cedeno for Heilman. That series of transactions may live on in infamy for a while.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Two other teams gave up on Aardsma before he became a closer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed - and no one saw that coming
I think most of us saw the Pierre trade as bad. I thought they gave up on Pie way to early.
I have to admit I didn’t mind them taking a flier on Heilman.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I know - what Wetteland is doing in SEA is remarkable
I was just trying to be whimsical. It’s pretty amazing that Aardsma suddenly went from “Kyle Farnsworth 2.0” to “lights out closer” at age 27, and it’s a credit to SEA’s coaching staff.
(And probably, a credit to their cavernous stadium.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
"Lost?"
Jim gave away Marquis because it was time to let Wells or Marshall develop. So, if we had kept Marquis, there’d be no ascension of Randy Wells. Did he really lose that one?
Gregg was a bad acquisition, but it doesn’t look like this is a loser trade. Especially if Gregg only hits Type B, the Cubs will win this trade.
The Cubs didn’t lose the DeRosa trade. They lost betting on Fontenot/Miles.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
What?
It’s time to let Wells or Marshall develop, so it doesn’t matter what you get in return for the incumbent? That doesn’t make any sense.
For 2009, the Cubs lost the DeRosa trade. Overall, the jury is still out on it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn't work like that.
If the Cubs had traded DeRosa and then signed O-Hud, would you say they won the trade? They won or lost the trade irrespective of what they did afterwards.
What we got for Marquis was salary relief. We could have gotten more if we had eaten contract.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 9, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
It does work like that.
The Cubs were supposedly in “win-now” mode, yet traded DeRosa for three prospects that could not help them immediately. In the snapshot of 2009, that was not a good move.
The Marquis trade was a marginal salary dump that netted them nothing in return as far as a player goes.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 9, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions
What if Aramis had been out all season
and we used those three pitchers to buy an All-Star 3b?
Just trading for pitchers doesn’t mean you aren’t still going to be able to use those players to help you win that season.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
You're making a real assumption..
… that three minor league pitchers would have brought an All-Star 3B.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Scott Rolen went for
Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and Zach Stewart.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I simply disagree!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Well, that we've established!
And I do have a lot of respect for your opinion. So, with what is it that you disagree – that Hendry has no strengths – trading, dumpster-diving, etc. – or is it that you believe that it doesn’t matter what strengths you have if you can’t produce star level hitters from your farm system?
Would you really rather have Sabean than Hendry?
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said...
…Hendry has no strengths. In fact, if you look back at my many statements about Hendry, I have said he has made some good trades and is good at getting the FA’s he wants. Now the reason he usually gets the FA’s can also be a weakness, because he tends to crater to giving out no trades, etc.
With that said, I will always stick to my main point; the most important thing a GM can do for an organization is to build a sound philosophy from the ground up – scouting, player development, drafting and the knack of knowing how to put the right pieces together to form a group of players who’s talents compliment each other.
IMO, these are areas where Hendry is weak and it can only be patched for so long by throwing money at it.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Seriously, the Cubs, the PLAYERS, are underperforming, not Hendry
The team that he put on the field was expected to win about 94-95 games, and take the division by storm. I thought he also made a very nice trade by getting prospects for DeRosa, while opening up more playing time for Fontenot.
Unfortunatley, it’s all backfired on him, as almost EVERYONE of the team has underperformed.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/8/28/1006188/whos-really-to-blame-for-this-bad
Smoltz.
by vivaelpujols on Sep 6, 2009 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well, that's, like, your opinion.
Hendry’s offseason:
1. Trading DeRosa for middle relief prospects. While this may make our 2010-11 bullpens somewhat cheaper, it cannot be denied that the DeRosa trade hurt the 2009 Cubs, and that it was known in advance that the DeRosa trade would hurt the 2009 Cubs.
2. Going into 2010 with no backup 3B. When Aramis Ramirez was hurt – an entirely possible situation – the Cubs were forced to moved their starting 2B over to 3B, because they entered the season with no one on the bench capable of playing 3B. This is in large part due to…
3. Signing Aaron Miles as the backup IF. Aaron Miles is, was, and forever shall be a lousy MLB player. He’s also in his 30’s. Jim decided to give him all of the cash saved from trading DeRosa, doubling Miles’ salary from STL. He can’t even play 3B, as we learned after the fact, causing us to sign Corey Koskie in spring training. He ultimately retired, leaving us with no contingency plan at 3B. What the hell, we’ll wing it and see what happens.
4. Trading Felix Pie for, ultimately, Aaron Heilman Felix Pie was one of Jim’s great successes as an organizational leader. The Cubs scouted this kid at 17, signed him, nurtured him through the entire organization, and watched him succeed at every level. His teammates universally praised him as a winner, a leader, and a guy who cared a great deal more about team wins than personal performance. He made the bigs at age 22, and after 280-odd plate appearances in sporadic work, Jim totally cut bait and sold him off for pennies on the dollar.
For a pitcher who he then included in a deal for Aaron Heilman, last seen pouring gasoline on every late-inning pressure situation in Shea, and getting run out of town.
Why? Because Coach Maineri told Jim that Aaron was “the best pitcher he’d ever coached.”
So far, it’s worked out freaking awfully. Heilman sucks, and Felix Pie is sporting a 105 OPS for the O’s, including an absolute juggernaut of an August in his first month as a true starter. (1.045 OPS in 71 PA, 5 HR, 13 RBI, 15 R. !!!) And to add insult to injury, Hendry signed Joey Gathright to a seven-figure deal to replace Pie – a deal which he had to eat when Gathright sucked even more than expected.
5. Adding Kevin Gregg to the Cubs’ bullpen as our closer. When we last saw Kevin Gregg, he was giving up a gigantic game-losing HR to Daryle Ward and leading the NL in blown saves as a Marlin, despite the fact that he lost the closer role with over a month to go.
Hendry didn’t want to get caught in a long-term contract situation with Wood, which is understandable. His response to the closer situation is less than understandable. He refused to offer arbitration to Wood, thereby losing out on the 1st rounder we would have gotten when Wood left. He signed the worst closer in the NL from the year prior, paid him millions of dollars, and watched as he very predictably imploded in 2009. Can you imagine BOS or NYY or LAD naming Kevin Gregg as their closer? It’s laughable.
I could keep going. In fact, I will, later – Hendry deserves a “95 Theses”-style j’accuse statement to be nailed to the Wrigley Field doors after this year is concluded. In this case, however, a very long FanPost will have to do.
Suffice it to say that Hendry made at least a dozen ridiculous moves which hurt the Cubs for 2009 (trading DeRosa), hurt the Cubs for the future (trading Pie), and which actually wound up costing the Cubs MORE money than if he’d just stood pat.
Hendry deserves all of the scorn that has been sent his way during this nightmare season. In fact, he deserves more than that. His decisions have been transparently counterproductive, and were called out as such from the time they were made. He deserves to be fired.
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by D98 on Sep 6, 2009 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact is that the Cubs players going into 09 were expectd to perform at a certain level
When adjusting for playing time and injury risks, the aggregate of that performance by the plays was expected to yield a certain amount of wins. That’s with all things being equal in terms of injuries (which they haven’t been), performance (which they haven’t been) and luck in close ballgames (which they haven’t been).
Yes, Hendry made some mistakes, who hasn’t. The point is that he put together a team that was expected to win the division by at least 5 games, and I don’t think you’ll find anyone who disagrees with that. However, the players have underperformed, there have been more injuries than expected, and Kevin Gregg has been a peice of shit.
Hendy didn’t have anything to do with those things.
Smoltz.
#4 Trading Pie
No one was against it until now. Pie was a bust in his time in Chicago, and the change of team, expectations, pressure, etc was what he needed..
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
A good portion of the people here were incensed
when Hendry didn’t go after Jason Schimdt and Barry Zito and insted got Lilly and Marquis. The expertise of the over reactionary people on this board is ZIP.
I was seriously against it, and I'm sure that it's still available in this board's archives.
He was a “bust” in like 250 plate appearances over parts of 2 years. He never played enough to be an actual bust.
Even if Pie was never going to be more than a 5th OF with plus defense and speed, he was substantially cheaper than Gathright, and should have been retained.
He now appears to be doing exactly what he’s always done throughout his pro career – adjust to the new level, and dominate it. The fact that the Cubs would invest 7 years into this player — almost a full third of his life! — and then make a snap decision that he’s never going to amount to anything and trade him for absolutely nothing….. it boggles the mind.
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by D98 on Sep 6, 2009 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the fact that they had him for 7 years
gives credence to the notion that it wasn’t a snap decision.
Smoltz.
I think the exact opposite is true.
For a rough analogue, consider how you’d react if the Cardinals had traded Colby Rasmus on June 1 of this year, noting that he was only hitting .230 or so and proclaiming that it was obvious that he was “never going to get it.”
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Any examples of how?
Both players were hotshot CF prospects who were signed at 17-18, who tore up the minor leagues, and who made their first appearances in the bigs at age 22.
Pie probably had more minor league success, but Rasmus was more highly ranked in prospect lists.
For the first 180-odd plate appearances of that age-22 MLB season, both players struggled, posting OPS in the .600’s.
The Cubs gave another 83 AB to Pie in his age-23 season, and then completely gave up on him and cut him loose after the season.
The Cardinals stuck with Rasmus, and now have a cost-controlled OF with a high ceiling.
The Cubs cut bait with Pie, despite the fact that he continued to tear up AAA, despite the fact that he actually hit very well during his 2008 September call-up, and despite the fact that the Cubs needed a player with his specific skill-set, as evidenced by the fact that Pie made the 2008 playoff roster, and the fact that the Cubs later signed “old, worst-case Pie” in Joey Gathright.
Baltimore stuck with Pie when he came out of the gates badly in 2009, watched him completely turn it around, and now have a cost-controlled OF with a high ceiling of their own.
I mean, yes, they are different players.
But as baseball analogies go, it’s pretty darned close!
And I think that it highlights the differences in organizational philosophy between STL and CHC. I just can’t imagine STL making the kinds of boneheaded errors tha the Cubs repeatedly make.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Or, example two is Carlos Gonzalez, a player ranked similarly to Pie through their minor league careers -
a player Oakland decided to dump this off-season, but because Oakland doesn’t have a high profile manager willing to run down his players in the press, Oakland was able to get Matt Holliday out of Carlos Gonzalez, despite Gonzalez hitting worse than Pie for longer. And now Gonzalez is also hitting.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs didn't make a snap decision. Lou did.
It was documented last year that Hendry and Fleita were fighting against Piniella and Perry over Pie. At the time, Lou had the media wrapped around his finger and Hendry gave in.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
Hendry is the General Manager, and bears the responsibility here.
I haven’t seen any of that documentation of that battle, but I’ll take your word for it.
That being said, if Hendry makes transactions that he believes are not in the Cubs best interests, then I don’t even know what to say.
Pie was the Cubs’ top prospect for several seasons, and the Cubs had invested several years of time and resources into his development, and had enjoyed successes at every level.
If Hendry is the kind of GM who kowtows to his field manager and jettisons the organization’s top prospect for essentially no return, then he is not the kind of GM I’d like to have running my team.
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by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said...
…and I continue to be baffled by how many want to place blame on Piniella for this “pushing” of Hendry to do this or do that.
GM’s and managers disagree all the time on players, that is part of the game and is common with even the best organizations. With that said, it is the GM’s responsibility to have the final call, and if he doesn’t have the capability to digest all the information he is receiving (from his manager, coaches, scouts and asst. GM), that person should not be a GM. If a GM simply does whatever the manager wants, why the hell is he the GM?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I think you're making a false dichotomy.
A good situation would be one where the GM knows the other GMs, knows the lay of other organizations and can rely on his FM to know his own players and trust that FM to make decisions about those players. It shouldn’t be the FMs solely in charge or the GM solely in charge – it would be good if the two could work together, with the GM being the final authority.
But if a GM totally ignores his manager and hitting coach, that’s not a workable situation. Someone has to give in.
I’ve said that Hendry should be blamed for either putting his foot down with Piniella and insisting Pie play or at least leave Pie in AAA. That Hendry has some blame doesn’t mean that Lou can’t have more blame for being thinking Pie didn’t have it and Hoffpauir did. Lou’s vaunted eye for talent has turned out to be a myth this season.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Again...
…I disagree.
A GM certainly obtains feedback from his manager, but he also gets feedback from his top scouts, coaching staff, asst. GM, etc. Furthermore, it is imperative that a GM hire a manager that fits in (reasonably well) with the organizations philosophy. Now, if the organizations philosophy is flawed, you have a problem and IMO, the Cubs organizational philosophy has been flawed for many years.
Hendry should be blamed for simply not making good decisions on roster construction, plain and simple. That is a major responsibility of a GM, and if he isn’t capable of doing that, than you have another problem that will rise to the surface in time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Most of this I respond to above.
Let me just respond to this here:
if Hendry makes transactions that he believes are not in the Cubs best interests, then I don’t even know what to say.
It’s not so cut and dry. Hendry can believe in Pie, but realize that Lou’s not going to play him and decide that giving Lou the player he wants and giving Pie a chance to blossom is the best thing to do. Pardon the silly analogy here, but it’s like in a marriage. Sometimes a spouse makes a decision that he/she doesn’t think is the best, but it’s just not worth arguing over it when you can go in a different direction. In particular, you can’t talk about the Pie situation this offseason without considering 1) that Dome looked awfully sketchy and 2) that the Cubs had an open window for a WS shot that needed to be taken this year. 3) Jim was given the money to pay for MB – most projections saw MB being worth more than Pie. Sometimes, especially with a club that is desperate to break a 100 year drought, selling the future for the present does make some sense.
In my view, the mistakes on Pie were made last year in the fifth game of the season – not so much this past off-season.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I can understand those points.
That said, it’s clear that the Cubs intended to keep a “Pie type” on the roster this year, hence Gathright.
And as we all said at the time, I think that any reasonable GM would have preferred Pie to Gathright in that role. Younger, 3X cheaper, and substantially more talented.
At 24 years old, Felix would have been (worst-case) a cheap OF capable of playing all three positions, and could have served as Fukudome insurance (if he’d continued his regression), and allowed the Cubs to spell Soriano and Bradley for fatigue and defensive purposes.
As things have played out, he’d have gotten a ton of PT during the various and sundry injury absences of 2009, and would be starting in CF right now, with Bradley in LF and Dome back in RF.
Frankly, it’s kind of heartbreaking.
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by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It is heartbreaking.
In the end, Jim makes some of his decisions “in fairness” to players, refusing to keep them blocked in the organization. It is part of the reason he’s considered a players’ GM and that may or may not pay off in seeing some of the FAs we want sign. That’s hard to tell. But sometimes people do things because they think it’s right and I think that’s part of Jim’s motivation, too. I don’t think Felix was going to succeed under Lou, in the same way that Raul Ibanez and Carlos Guillen couldn’t succeed under Lou. So, for me, that kind of mitigates it. But it’s still frustrating. Felix Pie is exactly what the Cubs will be seeking in the off-season after they dump MB because of Lou, and, in theory, he could have already been here.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
And
You deserve to have your posting priviledges revoked wasting everyone’s time with such a dumb post. How you go from 5 to “at least a dozen ridiculous moves which hurt the Cubs for 2009” is insane. Do you even proofread your posts before hitting the button? Do you have the mental facilities to type and chew gum at the same time? You stopped at because you there aren’t any more ridiculous reasons for your insane hatred of Hendry.
What’s the worst part of this freaking thread is that VivaElPujols is one of the few voices of reason. He knows more about the Cubs season than you do so just shut up already.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Sep 7, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Of VivaElPujols is all in favor of keeping Hendry
I would be too, if I rooted for another team in the division. Do you read before you hit the button?
The sun will shine in '69
This post is funny on several levels.
I’ll give you another shot to re-read.
For what it’s worth, why don’t you go ahead and take a look at my posting history while you’re at it. (I’ve been posting with Al since the alt.sports.baseball.chicago-cubs Usenet days.) I’ve been a fierce defender of Hendry for many years, even beyond the point when, in retrospect, it was reasonable to take that position. I ultimately ran out of patience with this ridiculous offseason.
Regarding this particular post, please note that I wrote that I’d continue the 2008-09 Mistake List when the season was concluded.
Suffice it to say that the failure to offer Wood arbitration, the decision to sign Gaudin for $2M and then almost immediately release him, the $725K he threw at Paul Bako for no reason, the decision to sign Joey Gathright, the decision to break camp with Neal Cotts, the entire series of Marquis-Vizcaino transactions and the associated wasted resources, and (notably) the decision to hold David Patton on the active roster for the 90 days needed to secure his Rule 5 rights (which dovetails neatly with the $6M wasted on Gaudin and Vizcaino) will be featured.
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Do you attend the Cubs Convention?
I’d like to see someone ask Hendry about all those.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I would love to hear Hendry respond...
…to these questions, without sounding like a politician.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
sadly
he wouldn’t answer admitting to any mistakes.
“I thought I was doing the best job to get our roster in order as there were multiple teams inquiring about those players services…….BLAH BLAH BLAH……..”
You got it...
…Mr. Teflon at his best!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I have to add...
…one thing about Hendry that has always bothered me has been his habit of making excuses. I have been critical of Hendry’s GM abilities since Dusty was here, but his penchant for excuse making is extremely annoying. What makes it worse, is he is the leader of the baseball organization, and this type of attitude tends to trickle down to managers, coaches and players.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Maybe...
… we need to have the questions phrased in such a way that he wouldn’t be able to make excuses.
If anyone can figure out a way to do that, I’ll be happy to ask that question myself.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not sure...
…that is going to matter much Al, as Hendry is very skilled at talking circles around issues. He has always been a players GM, and has not held players accountable for poor play, but has chosen to give every excuse in the book.
People were critical of Dusty for not holding players accountable, but Hendry has been the same way. In 2007, Lou called out players lack of performance, and hasn’t done it since. Maybe he sees his boss constantly making excuses and feels; “What’s the use”.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
We all line up and keep asking until he answers?
“That was a nice response, Mr. Hendry, but you still haven’t answered the previous question.”
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Get it done, BCB!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
sweet idea there
we can phrase the same question many ways, and see if we get different answers to it as well.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Your case is DeRosa and a bunch of backups. Where's the perspective here?
The DeRosa issue has been beaten to death, but for old times’ sake…
The Cubs wanted to get more LH and they had a cost-controlled LH 2B with good defense and a .900 OPS in limited playing time. How in the world do you NOT give him a chance to be at least a platoon player, if not a full time player? You don’t have to expect the .900 OPS again. All he has to do is give you an .820 OPS and he’s worth more than DeRosa at 5 M.
Once you decide to play Fontenot, you can’t keep DeRosa around as a backup. DeRosa had just had a career year. You don’t get to stash him on your bench. You trade him and take the prospects. And lost in your tirade is the fact that Jim Hendry chose some pretty good prospects.
So, once that issue is set aside, there’s nothing left to your case but a bunch of kindling that makes brief flashes and burns itself out. Sure, Hendry should have had another 3B backup besides one recovering from concussions, but this isn’t a fireable offense. And he worked it out well enough in-season grabbing the excellent pickup Jeff Baker. It wasn’t the lack of a 3B or Aaron Heilman (as annoying as he has been) who blew this season. It was half of the offense going MIA.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
I think we're making two parallel arguments.
My argument isn’t “Hendry mistake X torpedoed the season”. It is “Hendry 08-09 moves A, B, C…. J, K, L” were mistakes."
As for Fontenot – going into 2009, we were looking at a player headed into his 29-year-old season, who had totalled something like 25 plate appearances vs. LHP. I could certainly see the case for trying to get Fonty more work in 2009, but I don’t see where that 2008 season screams out “move your plus starter and make this guy a full timer!” Especially when the incumbent is entering the final year of his (very reasonable) contract.
I completely disagree that it worked out “well enough in-season”. It was a complete disaster for a period of several weeks before Baker was acquired.
And we both know that I could go on – this was, in retrospect, an amazing offseason in which almost every transaction blew up in the GM’s face. The problem is that at the time, it was pretty obvious that these transactions were bad ideas.
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by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
No it was not obvious that these were bad decisions - especially because some of them weren't bad decisions. Some were good risks that we caught bad results on. It happens.
Most importantly, though, is the recognition that the primary reason for this season’s blowing up had nothing to do with this off-season’s decisions. Geo Soto, Soriano – that’s 1/4 of the offense and no one expected their utter suckitude. Even if Jim Hendry had signed a backup like Eric Hinske, he wasn’t going to make up for Aramis Ramirez – and now we’re at 1/3 of the offense.
Anyway, let me repeat that I don’t think Fontenot had earned everyday playing time. He earned a platoon shot, and Jim Hendry signed Aaron Miles to be Fonty’s platoon partner. Miles has a .350 OBP career v. LHP – pre-season, it looked like a Fonty/Miles platoon would equal DeRosa’s production. But a big problem here is that Lou put Fonty on the field v. LHP too often and has kept Miles off the field v. LHP. It’s mindless managing.
You’re right, though, I misspoke about “it” working out “well enough,” in regards to the 3B backup. What worked out well was the acquisition of Jeff Baker, who because of injury wasn’t available any earlier. I wonder if Hendry held off on getting that backup 3B because he wanted Baker.
Finally, most of your lettered arguments are about relievers and getting good relievers is one of the most difficult things to predict in baseball. So, those arguments don’t impress me much. We got Aaron Heilman and he was bad. Well, at least we didn’t spend more in trade to get J.J. Putz who was just as bad.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
As for relievers....
….it’s still surprising that Hendry actively sought out Heilman and Gregg.
I mean, why go to the trouble to import two relievers who combined to blow 14 saves and lost 16 games in the year prior?
They were probably the two most widely-maligned relief pitchers in the NL in 2008 – I guess that perhaps, Hendry thought the negative press would drive down their prices. But we shouldn’t be shocked that they blew another 12 saves in 2009.
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by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I was shocked that Hendry traded for Gregg
when Lyon was available as a free agent with much the same profile minus the walks!
I just don’t think low-dollar bullpen mistakes are that big a deal.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Right, and in the end
It boils down to Soriano having a terrible season, Aramis Ramirez getting hurt, Geovany Soto not living up to expectations, and the 2009 Cubs offense failing to support a stellar pitching staff in the 1st half of the season. I fail to see how this is hard to understand.
The 2009 White Sox....like a 40 degree day.
by Ozzie Montana on Sep 8, 2009 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
These facts are not mutually exclusive.
Would Felix Pie’s 2009 arrival have helped the OF when Soriano floundered?
Would Mark DeRosa’s versatility have helped the IF when Aramis went down?
It’s absolutely true that certain players who the Cubs counted on to be key contributors failed to contribute, whether due to injury, in Aramis’ case, or due to… “other”, in Soriano and Soto’s cases.
It’s also absolutely true that the Cubs’ 2008-09 offseason left the team less capable of adapting to and overcoming the obstacles that arose in 2009.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I totally agree about Pie.
In my 2008 off-season plan, I argued for signing Milton Bradley and keeping Pie to rest Sori and Bradley, while giving him the measured playing time that could give him low-pressure development time. Especially with the questions about Dome, it’s maddening that we didn’t keep Pie.
But the Pie ship sailed last season when Lou benched him on Day 5.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i.e.
I don’t think Hendry could have kept both Pie and Lou – and Lou, coming off a MotY, wasn’t going anywhere.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Understood - but I think that's what separates adequate GMs from great ones.
For instance, consider how Billy Beane called his own highly-regarded manager, Art Howe, during a game to inform him that any future 110+ pitch count outings by Hudson-Mulder-Zito would result in his immediate termination.
I’m not saying that Hendry should have held the sword of damocles over Lou’s head on the Pie issue. But I think that, while the FM/GM relationship is a partnership of sorts, it’s definitely more akin to a boss/subordinate relationship than to a marriage.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Sep 8, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Of course,
in the end, Beane was only able to find a FM he could work with who was a long-time friend, which somewhat undercuts your argument. Howe, after all, was incensed that Beane wanted so much power when the old school way gave more power to the FM. Hendry is definitely old school and it’s not the way I’d do it, but, again, it’s not a huge deal to me.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 8, 2009 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I differ a bit...
…and would say the “old school way” is to basically let the FM manage the ballclub as they see fit, and Beane may be the only GM who has so deeply in this area.
Also, it is also “old school” for a GM to make the final call on all roster spots, even when the manager wants someone else. The FM job is to manage the players the GM gives him, and the GM’s job is to be the final judge on who those players will be.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
That's not what the articles I've read on Beane's relationships with his managers have said.
But I don’t have the time to google the articles and cite – sorry. Maybe someone else can confirm that FMs use to have more input in player acquisitions, etc.
Randy Wells - You continue to astound me.
by DGU on Sep 9, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions
pie
to trade pie and replace him with gathright was pretty stupid. and true he did not get signifigant playing time here.but if he produced when he did play he he would have gotten more playing time. he needed to play for a team not under so much pressure to win.
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