Baker better than DeRosa

DeRosa
.244/.313/.425 for an OPS of 738. His OPS-plus is 93 and his BABIP is .273. With the Cards, DeRo has 8 homers and 19 RBI.

Baker
.328/.383/.500 for an OPS of .883. His OPS-plus is 126, and his BABIP is .420, which suggests a lot of hits are falling in and a lot of grounders are finding holes. He’s got 3 homers and 13 RBI for the Cubs.

If you’re into Weighted On-Base Average, or wOBA, which uses linear weights as each type of hit has a different value, DeRosa’s wOBA for the season combined is .336. Last year with the Cubs, the wOBA was .376.

Baker has a combined wOBA between the Rox and Cubs of .353.

2 months ago drewishdrewid 54 comments 0 recs |

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Fairly Small Sample Size, But...

Baker has pleasantly surprised me with the Cubs. I thought the Cubs were crazy to sign him after the Rockies released him. I wish the Cubs had gotten a whole lot more production out of the Fontenot/Miles tandem earlier in the season. Over the long haul, I believe DeRosa is better than Baker, but I’ve got to give credit to Baker for being a far more productive hitter than most people thought.

DeRosa is the “Shane Battier” of baseball. He’s not an all-star. He never has and never will be the first or second best player on his team. He’s a good guy in the locker room who can give you solid production. They both find themselves in the playoffs frequently. Fans forget that the Grizzlies did make the playoffs 3 years in a row with Battier before Shane was traded to Houston. They are not great and can’t turn around bad teams single-handedly, but they are both very valuable to teams that have talent to surround them.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Sep 8, 2009 3:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Did he major in relgious studies at Penn?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Sep 8, 2009 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs traded for Baker

Gave up Al Alburquerque, a decent looking pen arm, but we have enough of those in the system to not lose sleep over it.

by toonsterwu on Sep 8, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'll get the DeRosa got injured argument

But I fully agree with you. Is Baker with us next year? I still feel like we can use an upgrade at 2B but he could be a useful sub throughout the field for the team.

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 3:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa IS injured.

He’s got a wrist injury suffered in one of his first couple of games with St. Louis. Before that he was having a fine year with Cleveland. I’m sure his injury has hampered his production.

However, the main point is valid. Jeff Baker has been a good player. He’s one of the few acquisitions by Jim Hendry in the past year that has been a good one.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 8, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baker is good

But can the Cubs get someone better at a reasonable price?

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe.

Or maybe they can swap big contracts for other teams’ big contracts. We’ll see.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 8, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard it again on the radio about an hour ago

Second time in 2 weeks they’ve mentioned the Mets would be interested in Derrek Lee to play 1B next year and that they’d send Jose Reyes (who might never be 100% again) and a prospect for him.

I dont want that deal to happen but it seems like it would make sense:
-Theriot to 2B
-Reyes SS
-Fox or Hoff plays 1B. Defense would go down but Reyes and Theriot would stop many more runs from going to the outfield.

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good God almighty, no

Of course the Mets want Lee to play 1B. Who wouldn’t?

If the Cubs can somehow wrangle Adrián González from San Diego, then let’s think about it.

Delicious Mexican Treats.

by chilango2 on Sep 8, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I just find it odd they think he can be had.

I would never trade our best player and probably most popular on the current team.

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs tried trading Lee last winter

But Lee invoked his no trade clause, so what has changed that would cause Lee to want to be traded?

A good day for me is a cubs win and a sox loss.

by diehardmark on Sep 8, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do not recall this at all

A link to your source would be nice.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Sep 8, 2009 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nor do I

I wiould also like a link

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they asked him if he would invoke it

And he said no. No trade was actually in place, it was more of a conversation.

That’s all I recall.

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regardless, he does have a no-trade provision in his contract.

Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville

by leothelip on Sep 8, 2009 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And further...

… Lee is a 10-and-5 player. He has the right to veto ANY trade, regardless of his contract status.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 8, 2009 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How does that deal make sense...

…if Reyes will never be 100% again?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 9, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never said it made sense

I just said what I heard on the radio and found it interesting they felt DLee was available and that this would even be worth it.

by ak123 on Sep 9, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...

I dont want that deal to happen but it seems like it would make sense:

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 9, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry in my head it made sense what I wrote

I meant I don’t want the deal to happen, I don’t think it makes sense but Cubs management on the other hand could.

I wasn’t very clear AT ALL! But that is what I meant.

by ak123 on Sep 9, 2009 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The difference is defense

IIRC, DeRo played at 6 different positions last year for the Cubs, either as a starter or an emergency replacement. He is the very definition of utility. Baker can play 2B, 3B, and maybe SS.

The numbers cited aren’t all that far off from each other (and as memphiscub said, SSS!), but think of how much more comfortable Lou would have been sending Sori out to get ‘scoped in early August if he’d had DeRo to take over LF for a few weeks.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Sep 8, 2009 3:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Baker has also played 1B, LF, and RF in his career

No starts at SS at the major-league level though, so I’d be wary of expecting that. He’s basically DeRosa as far as defense goes, with neither of them being particularly good or bad at any of those positions (using UZR as a metric).

by madcow256 on Sep 8, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baker is also several years younger then DeRo.

I understand Baker is arbitration eligible for the 1st time next season.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Sep 10, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Baker is better

Especially going forward. DeRosa is getting old in terms of baseball players. I think we maximized his potential in that trade, I just wish we had originally had a better plan than platooning Fontenot and Miles. That killed us.

by Mulhollandmania on Sep 8, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa Getting Up in Years

That’s definitely true. Even if DeRosa is better than Baker next season, you’ve got to figure Baker has more good years left in him than DeRosa. When I wrote, “Over the long haul, I believe DeRosa is better than Baker”, I meant that Baker is not going to be as good as DeRosa was in a career comparison. “Especially going forward”, I believe Baker is a better option.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Sep 8, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa's career wasn't all that spectacular before he became a Cub

He had 2 seasons with an OPS of 100 or higher (2002 and 2006). Baker’s currently on pace to have his second season with an OPS of 99 or above (not counting the 187 he posted in only 58 plate appearances in 2006).

As far as I’m concerned, it would be somewhat of a disappointment if Baker’s career didn’t end up being similar to DeRosa’s. He should have value for us in either the everyday 2B or super utility role, and I’m not convinced spending money for an average 2B just to put Baker on the bench is all that smart given our payroll restrictions. Just one man’s opinion.

by madcow256 on Sep 8, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cherry picking

Mark DeRosa 2009 Total is .260/.331/.445
Jeff Baker 2009 Total is .297/.350/.455

DeRosa with the Indians (and before the injury): .270/.342/.457

I’m not advocating either player as better than the other, but it’s a bit early for a definitive proclamation like this.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa Trade Looks Less Bad Now

I hope Jeff Stevens and the other two pitchers the Cubs got from Cleveland for DeRosa go on to have fabulous careers helping the Cubs to win multiple world championships. Even though Baker wasn’t involved in the trade, he has made that trade look a little better with his performance at DeRosa’s former primary position. Earlier in the season, the trade looked atrociously, hideously horrid with the awful play of Miles and Fontenot. I’m still of the opinion that the DeRosa trade wasn’t good, but I don’t feel nearly as bad about it now as I did. Time will tell on that trade with the development of Stevens and the minor league pitchers.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Sep 8, 2009 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd have settled for a better shot at winning in 2009...

… which DeRosa might have helped us with, had he been here.

Eight games worth? Maybe not. But the 2009 Cubs would have been a better team with Mark DeRosa.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 8, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm better than DeRosa at Monopoly.

I think

by Cubbiegoon on Sep 8, 2009 5:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I could kick his ass at Scrabble

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i am a black belt

at Chinese Checkers

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 9, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is Baker younger?

baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out

by Cubbie-Tim on Sep 8, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Baker is 28, DeRo 34.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 9, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, it's only taken 140 games to get over Mark.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Sep 8, 2009 7:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Shockingly

It took half to get over Kerry Wood!

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not over 1984

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 8, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was only 1

But from the stories my dad told me I’m not over it either!

by ak123 on Sep 8, 2009 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baker

I loved the deal when it was made. Baker’s always had potential, but a loaded Rockies positional depth chart, along with some injuries, limited him.

Looking towards 2010, I am fine with giving Baker the full time 2nd base job. That said, 2nd base might be one of the few spots where we can add another top of the order bat, so if Baker is made into our 2nd utility righty bat (along with Jake Fox), I’ve got no problem with that either.

by toonsterwu on Sep 8, 2009 11:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Baker is a good player to start the season counting on him only as a bench player.

He has the ability to play every day at multiple positions and inevitably he will find himself in the line-up due to injuries and days off for the “regulars”. I suspect he will end up starting a large number of games that way.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Sep 10, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh goody, another "You DeRosa fans were wrong" post

Just admit that the 2009 Cubs would have been better with him, OK?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Sep 9, 2009 6:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they might have been better

But I’m not convinced it would have been enough to catch up to the Cardinals or Wildcard….

by ak123 on Sep 9, 2009 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure that was Drew's intent.

The Cubs could’ve used DeRo when Aramis went down simply because they really didn’t have a true 3B backup. But, as of right now, the point is Baker looks like a younger version of DeRo who can fulfill the same role. I think Jeff should be given every opportunity to win the starting 2B position coming out of spring training, assuming a a big name middle infielder (either SS or 2B) can’t be picked up. He can still backup third base should the need arise.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Sep 9, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Water Under the Bridge Now

The trade hurt the Cubs’ chances of winning in 2009. We’ll see if the DeRosa trade bears fruit in coming years to help the Cubs win.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Sep 9, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts

I was unfamiliar with Baker when the Cubs acquired him, but I’m impressed. He is versatile. He has the stats. I’ve even seen signs, from TV shots, of him becoming a much needed club house leader. At least at this point in their careers, I think leadership is the only place DeRosa is ahead of Baker. I believe Baker could have a long career with the Cubs and what an asset. New owner. New mentality. Let’s get a fresh start in 2010.

Don't let anyone steal your Joy

by bigz38fan on Sep 9, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've been pleasantly surprised with his hitting

What have you seen that makes you think he’d be a leader? I’m not poking fun; I’m really asking.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Sep 9, 2009 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's just wishful thinking

but, again, this is just from what I’ve seen on TV. Baker seems to have a good rapport with everyone on the team. He will follow a guy the entire length of the dugout having a seemly positive conversation, when most players will only give you a high five and done. I wish I could explain it better, I just like what I see. I like the positive demeanor he demonstrates on a regular basis. Maybe, I’m just grasping for some hope.

Don't let anyone steal your Joy

by bigz38fan on Sep 9, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

????

Would the team’s record be any different if DeRosa and Wood were still on the team? I don’t know. I like to think a positive influence can make a difference in people. Cognitive therapy. Positive thinking. You think positive, you feel positive. I’m not saying the Cubs don’t have leaders currently on this team, but to lose 2 solid leaders in one off season, hurt the team. People lead differently. I think the Cubs need a vocal leader, a positive leader and a fresh start.

Don't let anyone steal your Joy

by bigz38fan on Sep 9, 2009 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I couldn't agree more.

The absence of such leaders was a big reason for the 2004 late-season meltdown. It DOES matter.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 9, 2009 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There seems to be something empty about the 2009 Cubs.

Personally, it appears that some players have forgotten that baseball is fun to play. It seems like the joy has been non-existent from this team, starting in the 2008 playoffs. It went poof during that first game when Loney hit the grand slam and has never returned.

Hey, it's a new century!

by cowsarecool220 on Sep 10, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And, of course...

… this team has a lot of different players from that 2008 playoff team. DeRosa, Edmonds, Cedeno, Ward, Blanco, Wood, Marquis, Howry, Wuertz — all key parts of the 2008 team — all elsewhere. Do not take this post as another “we want them all back” post, either; it’s simply to point out that nine of the 25 players on the postseason roster are not back. That’s a very large turnover in one year.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al on Sep 10, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs