Mark McGwire Admits Steroid Use
Is anyone really surprised?
over 2 years ago
Al Yellon
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Probably not the first motive
I believe that the Cardinals forced him to come clean in order for him to take on his new coaching role. The fact that LaRussa just a few days ago told the press McGwire would be talking to them well before the season started supports that thought. If he didn’t come clean at all or waited until spring training started, the team distraction would have been enormous.
While he will probably be thought of in a better light now (look at ARod and Jason Giambi), a five year wait to come clean will probably keep more than 25% of the BBWAA from voting for him. We’ll have to see what the Veteran’s Committee thinks when that time comes.
Agree completely
I live in St. Louis and the press while sucking up to everyone completely has been hounding him for interviews of course to ask him about steroid use more than anything. If HOF consideration were the primary motive he would have come clean long ago. Management keeps promising a press conference with him “sometime in the future”.
I am quite sure management told McGwire to come clean and do it now so it wouldn’t hang over his head during the season..picking their spot hoping to reduce the attention given to it.
I do think him finally agreeing to be the batting coach might be a move designed to help him get into the HOF…before doing so he just always avoided the press and wouldn’t talk to them, I doubt being a hitting instructor was a big desire or payback to LaRussa…I think he did it to clear the press from bothering him as well.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 11, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
He still won't get into the HOF.
That is seemingly the reason that “all of a sudden” he felt he needed to share right?
Too little too late IMO.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
Not surprised
But, I am glad he came out in the open. I don’t think he’s trying to get HOF interest, I think he is tired of the constant speculation and just wants it over with.
I also am not sure I agree with his statement that baseball is cleaned up. I think the pushers are ahead of the testers right now, again. I do think that it’s improving, though.
It just seems awfully coincidental
that this comes directly on the heels of his near non existent vote tally for the HOF and all the discussion I have heard on why he will “never get in bc of his obvious use and dishonesty”.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 11, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Will someone please translate his statement into spanish and email it to Sosa so he can simply edit the personal details a bit and resubmit his admission/apology?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 2:24 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
rec'd
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Stare oy'ds
Been berry berry good to me
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Good idea...
…but I’ll bet neither Sosa, or Clemens will every admit to using PED’s unless someone unearth’s evidence that leaves no room for any other conclusion.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Clemens has too much pride
He will never admit that he used PEDs.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
You could show a video of Clemens injecting himself in the arse and he'd deny it.
I can see it now. It’d be like the show Cheaters. They always show the dude messing around with some chick in his own car and he always says…..“It’s not me.”
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I think this was necessary/part of the deal for him to come in as STL’s hitting coach. Props to him for finally admitting it and a big Super Mario Bros. hammer to the head for lying about it for so long.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Props to him for finally admitting it? Really?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
No
No props here. About 5 years too late IMO.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 11, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
but
he did finally come clean – he could have taken it to the grave – that is why I gave him the hammer to the head for lying about it for so long.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Ok, but you don't give props.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
its more difficult to come clean after lying about it than to come clean in the first place…not justifying anything except for my prop giving
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
I dissagree. Telling the truth THE FIRST TIME is harder.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
well then...
we shall have to agree to disagree…
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Lying about something you've done wrong is easier than telling the truth. Who agrees with me?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
that it is far easier to lie about something at first, and to keep that lie alive by hiding (ala Bonds and Sosa) than it is to reemerge and come clean…
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
So when confronted with something, simply telling the truth right then and there is easier than lying...
and lying…and dodging the question…and then admitting you did it?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
in the long run
no, it is much more difficult to lie – you have to remember stuff – however in the moment it is often easier to lie in the beginning and then to run from your lie and hide than to tell the truth (at least in the mind of the liar).
Then to come back out of hiding and face the people that you lied to and tell them what really happened takes alot of guts, regardless of what happened to cause you to have to do that…and regardless of how your conscious may eat at you…I am simply talking in the mind of the liar.
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
I started trying to follow your logic here
And it makes sense its hard to admit you lied once you do so. But you made my head spin with all of that lol…gave up.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 11, 2010 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
you just must be a bad liar
To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.
I think I understand where you're coming from
Basically, in so many words, it’s more difficult to “come clean” when there’s been ten years of guilt building up, then it is right at the beginning of the speculation.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
the first time
I do agree with you.
But eventually (for most people I hope), your conscience eats at you and then it’s more a relief to come clean.
But, when presented with something you’ve done that you are ashamed of, it’s almost human nature to defend yourself by lying.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
wow...
now I know what blou feels like…HA…
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
may be harder, but it does more good
look at Giambi and Pettite. People were digusted they used PEDs, but they regained some respect when they immediately came out and admitted they were caught
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
ya
thats the way telling the truth works – if you come clean then people are only pissed you took steroids, not that you lied to their face
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
If his admission hadn't been filled with a bunch of nonsense about
how he COULDN’T admit it five years ago, I might give him props. His release reads like he was the victim of this, and WANTED to tell the truth earlier, but someone was stopping him. That isn’t the case
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
exactly.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Agree he did it to relieve some of the heat from becoming the batting instructor…pretty obvious with him only coming clean now. But I’m never giving anyone props for being silent and lying about it.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 11, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
I understood that
I just think he has alterior motives here. It is hard to prop him with that feeling. I could be wrong but I respect your opinion nonetheless. If it were Bonds, I’d have a little different attitude about it.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 11, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
if it were Bonds
I would be throwing him into McCovey cove with cement shoes so he can swim with the fishes
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
you could be right on it having to do w/the job
When the Cardinals hired the 47-year-old as coach on Oct. 26, they said he would address questions before spring training, and Monday’s statement broke his silence.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
Further discussion, if you are interested, at sbnation.com
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The last part contains one metric ton of nonsensical bullshit.
“…After all this time, I want to come clean. I was not in a position to do that five years ago in my congressional testimony, but now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it. I’ll do that, and then I just want to help my team.”
You were in a PERFECT FARKING POSITION five years ago. You had a microphone and a captive audience. Everyone who buys this excuse if either under the age of 10 or cannot think for themselves.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 2:32 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Now that he wants a job with a future, he needs to talk about the past?
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
"But now I feel an obligation to discuss this and to answer questions about it."
He feels an obligation because he wants to get into the HOF. That’s the only reason. He wasn’t going to be the first one to admit everything and he wouldn’t feel any need to do it unless he came back into the spotlight, which he’s doing as the hitting coach.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
"I want to talk about the past now"
because it’s now convient for you? He doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Everyone who buys this excuse if either under the age of 10 or cannot think for themselves
or tony larussa
by jesus christos on Jan 11, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Tony doesn't buy it
But since he was basically a co-conspirator in attempting to defraud millions of baseball fans, he has to play like he had no idea what was going on.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Not to mention the man was under oath.
If you can’t tell the truth when you’ve sworn to tell the truth, then when can you?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
When there are repercussions for answering that question.
He didn’t not tell the truth. He declined to answer their questions. Without immunity from prosecution his only smart legal option was not answering and incriminating himself.
That was a witch hunt.
Now, I agree there was a better way to do it, and I wish it had been many years ago, but Congress wasn’t that place.
* is an Asshat
Complete agree SWL
Only someone that admits it sometime close to being questioned gets my admiration. If Bonds ever admits to the obvious I don’t see why that should be admired either…you’re lying! I can’t admire that you finally decided there was a reason to tell the truth or had to with evidence in front of you. Of course there’s huge money involved and pride and reputation…many reasons to lie but I’m never going to admire someone for lying, or finally saying they did so. I think they should come clean…but I don’t admire they lied in the first place.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 11, 2010 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
I don't accept this apology
He was pushed into a corner and he ultimately had to come out with it. He lied, he committed perjury essentially, and he further tained the game. And above all else, he was a coward for not admitting to it.
If he had come out like Pettite or A-Rod, I would have had more respect for him; but his excuses (“oh we aren’t here to talk about the past!”) were ridiculous and obviously hiding something..
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
McGuire looked like the biggest doofus at the hearings by refusing to answer
any questions and using his “not talk about the past” b.s. However, I’m no attorney, but that doesn’t sound like perjury to me.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
He won't be called for it, because he technically didn't lie based off the words he said
but essentially he did commit perjury
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Pleading the fifth is not perjury
That’s basically what he did.
I hear you though. Not telling the truth and omitting the truth are the same thing
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
my question is what legal loophole did Palmerio go through?
He clearly lied under oath
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Good call!
He was pretty blunt about what he said. I’m not sure about what happens to him legally in that regard
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
didn't his positive test come after the congressional hearings?
of course the likelihood of him not taking anything in his career up until the hearings and then deciding to start using after the hearings is pretty slim, but in terms of actual evidence – if they don’t have anything on him until after the hearings so I don’t think they can get him for perjury.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
did some research, and yeah your correct
What a complete idiot for trying to get away with taking steroids after declaring he never took them
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Yet another reason never to trust an attorney.
If he did so after consulting one that is. I don’t have any sympathy for idiots who lie with advice and mess up their lives and reputations as a result.
by Sandberg's evil twin on Jan 11, 2010 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
Which is why I DO believe the acting as his attorneys advised him to.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 11, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
It's the world we live in, my friend
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
If he had come out like A-Rod?
A-Rod was “outted” by a reporter, he didn’t come clean, and personally, I thought his admission was horseshit. Pettite? Who knows if his admission was truthful or not. If it was, I truly don’t have an issue with his steriod use. I think that recovery from an injury is one possible legitimate use of steroids or HGH. I say possible because I don’t have nearly the medical knowledge to offer an educated opinion.
It seems fairly simple to me: McGwire wanted back into the game, and it was obvious that it wasn’t going to happen until he admitted the doping.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
A-Rod was ousted too, but he quickly responded by saying that he did it
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
He did, but he gave the "I was a dumb kid and didn't know what I was doing" excuse
It’s obviously just a personal opinion, but I’m not buying the excuse, or the limited amount of usage story.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
still doesn't condone his actions, I agree
at least he didn’t go to Capital Hill and come up with a crappy, bs statement
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
When did he lie?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
At the Capitol Hill hearing, he basically took the 5th.
He didn’t lie, he said “now isn’t the time to look into the past” or something like that. He basically made sure he didn’t lie, without actually telling the truth
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Not disagreeing with that
but you keep saying he lied at the Hill, and he didn’t
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
Because
After stating that he never took steroids before the Hearing; then in March, he quickly rebutts that and says “We aren’t here to talk about the past,” clearly shows he used a legal loophole to avoid what he did. Had he not made comments beforehand, it’s a whole new ballgame.
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I think you're using words you don't understand
Unless you think the 5th amendment is a “legal loophole”.
I know what the 5th Amendment is
In February (read SWL’s article for a quick source), Mark stated that he never used PEDs while playing baseball. But a month later, he quickly changes his story and refuses to talk about his playing past. What does he have to hide? Clearly he is lying and he took full advantage of the 5th Amendment. So, yes, it was a legal loophole
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
No, it was pleading the 5th.
So, yes, it was a legal loophole
A law is not a legal loophole. It’s a law.
That he lied in a non-legally binding situation is irrelevant, especially when in our society a refusal to proclaim innocence on the stand is the same as an admission of guilt. Every knew at the time and has known for years what McGwire admitted today exactly because of his decision to not testify.
by Wreckard on Jan 11, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Lying to Congress is a non-legally binding situation?
Since when?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not answering a question does not equal lying.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
Except, based on some other comments here, he DID lie.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not to congress.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmm.
Must have misread the thread below. I was referring to this link you posted but it appears that didn’t have to do with his Congressional testimony, or lack thereof.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah, he pretty much didn't say jack shit to congress. He's nothing if not calculating and clever.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
While it is not illegal (5th Amendment right)
it is easy to see why some would think it unethical.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
my point exactly
you have the right to no self-incrimination; however, McGwire used it to his advantage twistingly
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
That's an interesting interpretation.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I don't know about the "numerous times afterward" part...
…but I’m pretty sure he didn’t lie during the hearings.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
sorry, he didn't state the truth
essentially the same thing, he just didn’t incriminate himself
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
He never lied.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Ahem.
What would you say to refute this article?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
I'd say that I'd like to kick Big Mac square in the nuts
Acting sanctimonious to boot. What a dickweed
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
“Once and for all, I did not use steroids or any illegal substance.”
Assuming that’s an accurate quote, I’d say that’s pretty damning.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
now did he mean steroids that were considered illegal in the game?
because technically, that’s a no
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I was referring to the OP's comment that he lied on the hill and numerous times afterwards.
However, I will admit that that article is news to me. I wasn’t aware. But I was referring to what was said above. Personally, i didn’t even realize he had said anything before the hearings.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Um, what?
He was pushed into a corner and he ultimately had to come out with it.
How so?
He lied, he committed perjury essentially, and he further tained the game. And above all else, he was a coward for not admitting to it.
How so?
He was pushed into a corner for admitting it
We all knew, and ESPN and MLB Network stated, that he was ultimately going to have to come out once he took the hitting coach gig with the Cardinals.
Read above for my response to your second question
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
That makes no sense.
We all knew, and ESPN and MLB Network stated, that he was ultimately going to have to come out once he took the hitting coach gig with the Cardinals.
Was he pushed into taking the hitting coach job? If he chose to accept the job and knew coming clean was a condition of taking the job, then he effectively chose to come clean.
He could have easily turned down the job and spent the rest of his days sulking out of the limelight. He’s been pulling a JD Salinger for years, he chose to return to baseball.
Then why not come out on Capitol Hill? What does five years make a difference then
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
The possession and possible distribution of controlled substances is
Which is why he couldn’t admit to those things in front of congress at the time.
except that unless he did it the day he went in front congress
He wouldn’t have had to wait until five years AFTER he went in front of congress.
Nice try though
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 14, 2010 7:20 AM CST up reply actions
Ban him from baseball...
All these fools should be banned permanently from the game. What’s the difference between Pete Rose betting on baseball and steroid users fooling us into believing that they weren’t really cheating? There is no Live and Let Live with this.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
you're gonna have to kick
a significant percentage of the HOF out.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 11, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Then let's do it...
My comment is totally unrealistic, but these fools made untold millions on this, and baseball did even better. So now all he has to do is come out and say that he’s sorry and he gets to keep his cushy coaching job as if nothing ever happened. Bullshit.
Proud recipient of a hot dog shot from the Iowa Cubs hot dog gun.
rec'd
simply because it is what should be done…however, should and will are two friends seperated by the vast cosmos
I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
I don't see how they can be banned when the Players' Association, the owners and the
commissioner’s office where basically complicit in the whole stinking thing. I do wish there could be an award for Rick Helling who went the the Players Association meeting every year complaining that steroid use was ruining the game
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
That would be hard though I do not completely disagree
perhaps just letting Rose back into baseball would be easier?
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Jan 11, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't understand the difference between people betting on baseball and people cheating to get ahead
then you are ignorant of baseball history.
PEDs are completely different than Gambling in Baseball
PEDs = illegally/imorally trying to perform better
Gambling = the possibility that a player could throw a game. Not just betting that your team will win.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 11, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Bullshit
Bobby Knight said that gatorade and asprin should be considered as a PED. Those are natural substances, you don’t inject it into you
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Not doubting you
But do you have a link to that Bobby Knight quote? I’d love to read that
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
It was on ESPN Baseball Tonight at 3:30, so there unfortunetly is no link
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Ah bummer
I’m an IU student and a big Bobby Knight supporter. Just interested in what he has to say
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Where does chair throwing and choking stand?
Bob Knight, please…
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 11, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
never thought you would think it but, jose canseco was right.
again.
the more time goes by, the more canseco is vindicated from the accusations in his book. granted this one was pretty obvious but mcgwire had not admitted it nor had he been charged with anything so there was plausible deniability on his part.
the sad part is that when these players admit to using today, the world shrugs its shoulders. and nothing is going to stop these people from using in the future.
I wonder if other players will start to be asked about it
Pudge was another name in that book. I read it right after it came out. Can’t remember many other players in it. I know he was one.
Also makes me wonder about the people who supposedly have the list of 100+ players who tested positive
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
McGwire still denies that he and Canseco personally injected eachother.
Which would make Canseco what, just wrong enough to sort of be right?
From what I’ve read about Jose Canseco’s personality and character, it seems totally plausible to me that he knew McGwire took steroids and made up some of the other details. It’s also plausible that Canseco’s book was totally honest and that players want to continue to discredit it even as they admit their own doing.
Conseco said they did it just before gametime...McGwire says no way, like that would be horrible....
horrible b/c it was right before the game or b/c it was with Conseco. Does a person take steroids daily or what?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 9:22 PM CST up reply actions
i tend to trust Canseco
since he is yet to be wrong on who has used. It is a sad thing when Canseco is the “voice of reason” on any topic
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
He's also got no reason to lie.
Baseball basically (definitely in his mind) black-balled him out of the game, so he figures he’s got nothing to lose. He wasn’t going to make the Hall, he was never going to be a coach, and his playing career was over and I’m sure in his mind, cut short and out of his control. So, he’s getting paid the only way he’s really qualified to do so and that’s to spill the beans on everything he knows about this.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Other than the timing ...
I don’t think has to do with the HOF.
This is about McGwire being able to do his job as the hitting coach for the Cardinals without persistent steroid questions. He’ll get a few questions as ST begins, but that will probably be all.
Is it good that he came clean? I guess it is. Does it make me think anything more of him? No.
Honestly, I never thought McGwire would come clean
I figured he was taking his dirty little secret to the grave. And look what it really took to get him to confess-money, not his conscience. Loser.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
LaRussa....worse
And LaRussa claims to have never known and that he was proud of McGwire for coming forward? Really Tony? You never knew? You presided over the largest bunch of steriod abusers in the game, reaped the benefits of their illegal actions and all the while you didn’t even have an inkling?
LaRussa is all that is wrong with MLB and the game will be better off when he’s no longer part of it.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Jan 11, 2010 3:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well, you can hear him for yourself...
… if you have MLB Network. He will be on tonight at 6 pm CST talking to Bob Costas.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he'll apologize for people finding out he cheated
and will be very sorry and sad he never said it before he was caught
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
I hope Costas doesn't let him off with softball questions.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
meh, I'm sure he will
and Costas will make it seem that he is “courageous” for his admission, despite it essentially being required for him to get a job
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
You probably shouldn't watch the interview then. You're going to be disappointed.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I'll watch anyway...
… just to see it happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm ready to take it easy on Big Mac
You know what, steroids were everywhere. Big Mac was fun to watch, and great for the game. Barry Bonds on the other hand, was a jerk day in and day out. So, in my mind, I will root for Mac and hate Bonds forever.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
please explain how cheating = "great for the game"
sorry, not buying it. Also don’t like it when adults try the “everyone else is doing it” excuse. Doesn’t fly when my 8 year old tries it.
So basically you’re giving him a pass on the exact same thing Bonds did, because McGwire was nicer? That’s asinine
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Why so?
I don’t agree that there is anything wrong with giving him a pass. Tell your kid not to do steroids. That’s fine. But I enjoyed watching Big Mac, and I don’t care that he was on steroids. 1998 was the best baseball I’ve ever watched, I will never forget it. Barry Bonds on the other hand, never excited me, because he brought no joy to the game, outside of San Fran of course.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
McGwire
Today the Cubs hire someone who would be the biggest surprise of all time and McGwire is the least susprising of all time.
Maddux is everything right about baseball.
McGwire is everything wrong.
2/18/2010 B&B become a We
Hyperbole to the rescue!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
what is this bole you speak of...
…and why is it hyper?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Super
Now apologize to Roger Maris’s family for dragging them along during that little show you put on during 1998.
I’m glad he said something finally, but that was a very hollow statement.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
by PacificCub on Jan 11, 2010 3:42 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
He did
Mrs. Maris was not happy about it.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Just saw that
I’m actually impressed in a very twisted way.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
by PacificCub on Jan 12, 2010 1:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
"We're talking 20 years that the man has been burdend with this" - Harold Reynolds
If he was burdened with it then, he never would have continued using steroids
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
How about this
Only those of you who didn’t enjoy watching Sammy Sosa and Big Mac go at it in 98 can mock them now. How about that. It was great baseball, who cares about the rest.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
So I got a 100 on a test, but I cheated to earn it
guess I should be honored for it as well
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
....before the steroid crap came out I was watching the "corked-bat" game with my kid,
and just about threw-up when the bat broke….I was a Sosa fan till I had to explain to my child why he was caught cheating. I dont like either of them ….that whole HR thing was like enjoying a juicy burger and then finding out it was made from rat meat.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
Or taking a hot girl home from a bar...
and waking up naked, covered in dried KY Jelly and seeing her peeing in your toilet….standing up.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
that was you?????
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
I ended up needing stitches by the way.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Once again you prove that you and the line too far
need no introduction.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
At least
He didn’t post one of his famous graphics to go with it
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
no comment.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
-1000000000000000
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Steroids is a tough talk with children, that I acknowledge, however I can’t wait till my kid is old enough for me to explain corked bats. That’s a silly nuance of the game that I happen to love. I don’t encourage it in any way, and people are dumb to do it, but I"m glad it exists, like the spitter it adds colour to the game.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
you are a font of stinkin thinkin
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
All your principle however can't erase how much fun it was to watch!
And if you deny that you ever enjoyed it, then that’s too bad.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
knowing what I know now, if Mac had said,
oh by the way, I’m cheating right now, it wouldn’t have been fun to watch.
I don’t enjoy being lied to.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry
But that’s a little bit of a silly argument. You don’t like being lied to? The fact remains I’m sure 90% of us loved those years. They were the most fun I’ve ever had in a season. His doing steroids can’t take that away. Nor does it take away from Sosa. You don’t like it, I’m sure you can cheer for Aaron Miles, I’m pretty sure he’s clean
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
You're the one with silly arguments....
…you think telling your kids about guys cheating with corked bats is a “silly nuance” and if I think taking steroids is wrong I have to cheer for the likes of Aaron Miles. BTW …the HR race between Sosa and McGwire was not the highlight of the baseball season, for me anyway. A “silly nuance” is why players spit or grab their crotch or chew tobacco or eat tons of sunflower seeds or punch Gatorade coolers…not cheat.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think perhaps you are a little oversensitive on this stuff
Corking the bat never hurt anyone
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
It's effing CHEATING
what the hell is wrong with you?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
does corking help?
depending on the study it does and doesnt. fun stuff woo hoo
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Doesn't really matter though.
It’s against the rules (and was when Sosa did it) and the reason it’s done is because that player “thinks” it helps. If you think you’re cheating, you’re cheating. Doesn’t matter if it actually helps or not.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
i know its against the rules
just talking the science part of it
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
It's sports people, grow up.
Watch them, enjoy them, don’t let it wreck your life when they aren’t great people. Don’t forget the jocks are often the dumb guys in high school.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
You know, not sharing your opinion doesnt mean we need to "grow up"
MAC doing roids didn’t destroy my life. It did make me dislike him as a person, since he continuously lied about it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
I don't like players who use steroids
I consider it cheating, plain and simple. You want to call that sanctimonious, feel free
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
As punishment
I think he should have to eat one of those new Big Mac Snack Wraps. That’ll teach him.
LaRussa immediately issued a denial
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Selig letting him off the hook
“I am pleased that Mark McGwire has confronted his use of performance-enhancing substances as a player. Being truthful is always the correct course of action…”
Wow.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 11, 2010 4:26 PM CST reply actions
Spoken like a used car salesman.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus f***.
Bud, will you please grow a pair before you finally leave us?
Limp-wristed as ever.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
Jeez. I was sure that was his AGENT being quoted...
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Ha ha, yes, being truthful is always the correct course of action
unless it somehow negatively impacts you, right Bud?
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
This will be Bud Selig's epitaph as commisioner.
It defines his position on steroids— hand’s off til the very end.
I’d like to see Selig say this using “Canseco” instead of “McGwire”
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Jan 11, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
PS
Thanks for the millions!
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
I'm shocked. SHOCKED I SAY, to learn there is GAMBLING going on at this establishment!
Sorry Mark. I’m not here to blog about the past…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Boo him when he comes to Wrigley Field?
I don’t know what you’re looking for. The guy basically admitted to using steroids for most of his career. That should kill his joke of a Hall of Fame candidacy and rightfully so. I just heard Gammons say earlier that he would not vote for McGwire.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I didn't remember that Frank Thomas...
…was suppose to be there, but appeared via satellite instead. Then after a brief statement his feed was “lost.” Things that make you go, hmmmmm.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
This is what really got me:
“I wish I had never played during the steroid era,” McGwire said.
Oh, so now it’s the era’s fault? As though if he had just been born a little earlier or later, his character would never have been compromised. What a completely idiotic thing to say.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
A completely idiotic thing for his WRITER to say
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Some other quotes in this vein...
“I wish I had never played during the tabloid era.” – Tiger Woods
“I wish I had never been married.” – OJ Simpson
“I wish I had never played during the shotgun era.” – Kurt Cobain
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
With your picture above and this comment, you’ve made my day @ BCB, SWL. Thank you
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Jan 11, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
It's the same bullshit wrapped up in another package
it’s identical to his “I wish I could have come clean five years ago”
It’s all a sham, just like his career.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
I like what Mac did and I'll tell you why,
He stepped away from the game without discussing anything because he doesn’t owe any of us an explanation for what he did. He was paid to entertain, and he did just that, he entertained better than anyone I’ve ever seen.
Then, when he was asked to come back to the game to coach, he swallowed his pride, dealt with his issue in the off season, so that it won’t destroy spring training for the team.
As for his hall of fame candacy, I’m sure he cares, but maybe he’s not that shook up about the fact that he won’t get into a hall voted on by writers who are so full of themselves and their priviliege they won’t vote Roberto Alomar into the Hall because of one incident, or they won’t elect Cal Ripken Jr as a unanimous electee. Maybe just maybe he doesn’t care about that, and I give him credit for that.
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
tell that...
… to parents of kids who have died of had other life altering results due to using PEDs in order to try to emulate people like McGwire.
by dmlichte on Jan 11, 2010 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
However
Mac never admitted it until yesterday. So those kids died emulating him after one day? Get off your horse.
Hey Ump!
wow... you don't really get it
Young athletes have a higher level to reach with all the juiced players. Further, for all the crying that McGwire did yesterday the message he sent was “I got away with it”. He’s allowed to remain in the sport and gets a paycheck from a major league team even after ten years worth of using PEDs.
How about all the players who are trying to compete with people who are clean but much more talented?
Athletes will always have some level to achieve to. What about the players who simply aren’t good enough or talented enough or big enough and feel they need something extra to compete with more talented players? Who gets the blame then?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
plus, he's told them that steroids help if you're injured.....he said he did it for "health purposes", and it worked for him
its not just McGwire……but what he said yesterday would not deter kids from taking them. IMHO
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
Well, it did help him.
Obviously it did. Should he have lied and said it actually hurt his performance or his recovery from injury?
I don’t get that so many want him to be honest, yet when he is about this, he gets slammed for it too.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
i do and dont agree
parents also need to teach their kids right and wrong, and not blame TV, music, etc. Blaming doesnt teach them
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I've figured it out, you're either his agent,
or a family friend.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
why do you feel you need to be an apologist for McGwire?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, lots of people put lots of dumb stuff in their bodies. Sorry, it happens
All this buttoning and unbuttoning
yeah, fraud is always something I like to just shrug off.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Ah yes, I remember that time I made millions of dollars
when thousands of people paid to watch me drop acid, and then I denied it for 10 years.
Or at least I think those were people. Maybe they were just trees, now that I think about it.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
see, its a common mistake and misunderstanding
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I watched Mark McGwire's interview on the MLB Network.
Here’s my question:
How can any organization employ a coach that publicly says he took steroids but they did not have a performance enhancement to their game?
Hey, it's a new century!
Two words:
Tony Larussa.
He’s not exactly the world’s classiest guy
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 11, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
The interview lowered my opinion of him even more than it was
He’s scum in my eyes and deserves to be booed everywhere he goes with the Cardinals.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
ask marttisdad
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Can someone explain to me why Bobby Knight has been asked about McGwire?
And for the love of god, “Gatorade is a performance enhancing drug” Could you be a bigger moron Bobby? I mean seriously. Because Gatorade and Steroids are clearly the same.
For god’s sake
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Knight and TLR are close friends
so I am sure that means Big Mac has met Knight a few times, etc
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
he's right that they are performing enhancing
but that would be like saying an apple and cherry are the same becasue they are fruits. He’s completely oversimplifying it
Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010
Big Mac
Big Joke. If he never gets the job as hitting coach he still would deny the accusations. Swiss Cheese story that is all it is.
The Cubs...
did a much better job of aquiring a hitting instructor than the Cardinals this offseason.
Amen to that!!!....I'm done with this McGwire crap....actually, this whole thing has made him pathetic.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Projecting McGwire's numbers without steroids
Without steroids, what would Mark McGwire’s stats have looked like? By his own admission, he tried steroids in the 1989-90 offseason. Only his numbers up until the 1989 season are used in the projection using Bill James MLB Career Stat Projection Tool.
Projected Years After 1989: 8.5 (circa mid-1997)
At Bats: 6,269 (average of 543.5 per year)
Hits: 1,676 (29% chance to reach 2,000 with an average of 147 per year)
Singles: 921 (Hits – (doubles + triples + home runs))
Doubles: 273 (39% chance to reach 300 with an average of 24.2 per year)
Triples: 20 (0% chance to reach 50 with an average of 1.8 per year)
Home Runs: 462 (40% chance at 500 with an average of 40.7 per year)
Walks: 868 (average 74.7 per year)
Strikeouts: 1,381 (average 120.2 per year)
Hit By Pitch: 49 (average 4.3 per year)
Sacrifice Flies: 83 (average 7.2 per year)
Total Bases: 3,375
Based on those numbers, his batting average, slugging percentage and on-base percentage can be projected.
Batting Average: .267
On-Base Percentage: .357
Slugging Percentage: .538
His final hit totals are overestimated, but McGwire also missed significant time in 1993 and 1994 due to injuries. Despite this, the projection is still fairly close as are the at-bats. The projected .267 batting average is thus a decent projection based on his early career and what he did with steroids. According to McGwire, steroids didn’t make him a better hitter. Based on batting average, it’s possible that they made him worse than his projected value.
What’s most telling is the difference in power numbers through 1997. A projection to 1997 reveals that McGwire would have been projected to hit only 462 home runs in his career. Through 1997, McGwire only had 387 career home runs and his batting average (.260), hits (1,201) and doubles (198) were significantly below projected values. The addition of 1998 and 199 significantly boosted McGwire’s career totals in terms of power. Much of the problem that McGwire had was that he was dealing with injuries. It’s plausible that knowing what we do about steroids that McGwire’s injuries had some contribution from his steroid use.
What is projected is not a Hall of Famer. Anyone who questions whether or not McGwire belongs in the Hall of Fame can look at what was projected from 1989. McGwire did not have a great chance to reach 500 home runs (only 40%), but it’s possible that he might have reached 500 career home runs. McGwire as projected would have needed 500 career home runs to receive Hall of Fame consideration. He had a chance at a fine career if he had never touched steroids, which is a tragedy by itself.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
That would have gone through 1998
Throwing in his real 1998 numbers would have defeated the purpose, but I think it’s a good projection.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
If McGwire had been that close to 500 HR...
… after 1997, at age 34, he certainly would have tried to hang around for another year or two to get to 500, likely as a DH somewhere (remember, there were rumors he might sign with the Angels). Assuming no injuries and no steroids, I say McGwire would have gotten there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
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