What Happens When Sammy Owns Up?
by Ross on Jan 11, 2010 3:58 PM CST
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With McGwire's admission of steroid use today, I was wondering what it would mean to the folks here at BCB when Sammy Sosa decides to admit that he used steroids. (Yes, I am both presuming that he is guilty and that it will come out at some point.)
For me, it would not be much of a shock, since there seemed to be substantial, though somewhat circumstantial evidence all along. And it would do nothing to erase the sour taste I have from his final weeks in a Cub jersey. So, to be honest, my overall feeling about him wouldn't change, though I might admire him a bit more for finally having the guts to come clean.
So what say you all? How would a Sammy Sosa admission of steroid use effect your view of him?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I don't think he'll own up to it.
But he has the advantage of seeing how it works for McGwire and his aspirations for the HoF.
If he owns up to is, it will be in Spanish
since Sammy doesn’t speak of understand English very well…at least, that’s what he told congress…(cough)…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
If I were a betting man, sure I would be that Sosa did steroids
but I’ll also tell you this. If I was testifying before Congress in a country were I spoke the language only passably as a second language, I would damn well have an interpreter with me. I always got a kick out of the guys on the Score ripping Sosa for having an interpreter when they never missed an opportunity to make fun of his inability to speak English well (they were obviously his “enemics”).
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
by davidalanu on Jan 11, 2010 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
There's an interesting point.
but i don’t think anybody’s admission of steroids are going to help them to the HOF unless they’ve just missed getting in before by just a few votes.
the voters (BBWAA) are hardliners on this subject.
I think Sammy could only benefit from going to the public confessional. It couldn’t hurt him.
In McGwire’s case and in Sammy’s also, much sooner would have better. the pot’s been simmering for awhile now.
Being a Cardinal fan, of course I liked Big Mac and appreciated what he and Sammy did to bring baseball out of the gutter, but i figured then that Mark was juiced. All he needed was the anchors on his forearms….
Mark McGwire might be a bit of a canary for Sammy Sosa but the canary would probably die no matter who was carrying it if they took steroids.
Baseball first, teams second, players third, agents last.
by Dave Pendleton on Jan 12, 2010 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
Ten BCB points for reminding me of a Police song
“Canary in a Coal Mine”
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
It will be a braver confession than McGwire's
It’s an uncomfortable truth, but Sammy’s fall will be wose than McGwires just because people will be harder on his sins.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 11, 2010 4:08 PM CST reply actions
this comment warrants an explanation
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
I can hardly wait for the explanation for this one
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
I figure if I'm going to make this case, I'd better back it up.
xenophobia, even in it’s subconscious form, is real:
One clear factor is definitely that Sammy looks and talks differently then what we’re used to as part of our common experience, and this relative difference constitutes and “unkonwn” that people tend to fear. If anyone can claim not to do this at some level, then they are a better person than I am.
I won’t deny other factors – Sammy’s not a great communicator, and he has rubbed people the wrong way independently of his race just like Bud Selig and Michael Barrett, etc have. There’s also a good point to be made that people who tell the truth when it doesn’t totally serve personal gain (though McGwire’s desire to be a coach should be considered here), and he will lose a bunch of points for “getting busted” as opposed to offering to come clean.
I realize people will disagree with me, because nobody likes to be called xenophobic, but I happen to believe, despite what we tell ourselves, we all are, even if just a little bit.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 12, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Oh GAWD....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well. you DID ask me to explain...
Don’t look so morose when I give you exactly what you asked for. You can always ignore the comment if you’re sick of the discussion, and my opinion is nothing more than that.
by DisCUBbobulated on Jan 12, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
not a very compelling explanation IMO
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
He wont live to it.
But you are right he does have the advantage of seeing how it plays out. As far as my opinion of how I would view him I would have to say it stays the same. Nothing will be like that summer when he and McGwire were going after the home run title but Sammy’s true colors came out when the Cubs were losing and his Prim a dona ways came out.
Sammy's "true colors" were clearly visible for years, even during the HR race.
…Sammy’s true colors came out when the Cubs were losing and his Prim a dona ways came out.
Sammy’s “primadona ways” were clearly evident for years and years. But I think you’re referring to when Sosa’s offensive production declined and lost value and then Cubs/Tribune opened fire on him, clearing the way for his departure.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I can't speak for him..
… but I was never a Sosa fan and what put me off was his late arrivals to spring training and his parade into the clubhouse, declaring it “my house”. I hope he’s never associated with the organization in any way.
You were a lonely voice then amongst your...
… fellow Cubs fans. Most were drinking deeply “The Sosa Show” and attacked anyone who dared to say what is now completely acceptable – that Sammy was a self-centered, self-promoter & a steroid user.
I wish that those in charge of MLB – Bud Selig, the owners and the leaders of the players association – would suffer some serious consequences for their either direct, indirect (tacit) approval of PED usage. The players, such as Sosa, take a public flogging over these issues but the people who reaped the largest rewards are laughing as they count their money.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
It's true
Most were drinking deeply "The Sosa Show" and attacked anyone who dared to say what is now completely acceptable – that Sammy was a self-centered, self-promoter & a steroid user.
But we loved him for it. And that’s so sad now.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
There's a difference between
“a self-centered, self-promoting, steroid user” and “our self-centered, self-promoting, steroid user.” A lot of things can be ostrich syndromed when the person in question plays for your team.
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 12, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
In our defense
This ostrich syndrome wasn’t limited to any one team’s fans. Baseball as a whole was swept up in steroids and the massive numbers and egos they produced. Sammy wasn’t particularly hated by neutral fans (non-Cardinals, non-Sox) until the cork incident. Unlike Bonds, who seemed to be disliked just about everywhere other than in San Fran.
That's true.
Baseball fans the country over needed something to rally behind and didn’t really care how or from where it came.
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 12, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'll buy that
It was a great time to be a baseball fan. Wish it wasn’t so fraudulent.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
So so
In our defense…This ostrich syndrome wasn’t limited to any one team’s fans. Baseball as a whole was swept up in steroids and the massive numbers and egos they produced. Sammy wasn’t particularly hated by neutral fans (non-Cardinals, non-Sox) until the cork incident. Unlike Bonds, who seemed to be disliked just about everywhere other than in San Fran.
What I was speaking to was not just the steroids accusations against Sosa, I was mainly talking about his self-centered, egotistical, “The Sammy Sosa Show.” All or at least most of what Cubs fans now say about Sosa were clearly evident to many Sox fans, like myself, and we were routinely attacked for saying these things that now are the norm amongst Cubs fans. Glad you’ve come around.
Interestingly though many of Sosa’s team members held views similar to us Sox fans. Sandberg after years and years of tacitly approving of The Sosa Show (finally) came out in his HOF speech. And I found this funny too:
“Mark (McGwire) wasn’t crazy about the fact that Sammy was there (at home plate),” Trachsel said. “He really didn’t like (Sosa) very much, but he played it off pretty well that night.”
All that said, I don’t view Sosa as the major culprit here. Sammy was a sports entertainer and a damn good one. Sammy was worth every dollar he earned, and probably much, much more to MLB. He was always fun at the Crosstown games and seemed to revel in the chants from Sox fans. It was fun. I don’t hate the guy.
I’ll never forget getting cursed out by a Cubbie fan because I had the temerity to boo Sosa at a Crosstown game at Wrigley. I wonder if that guy would have booed Sosa after the corked bat and after Sosa was unceremoniously tossed under the bus by the Cubs.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Even Cubs fans...
… used to call him “Selfish Sammy” before the 1998 season launched him into national fame.
Your statement confirms, though, the contention of the original poster that most baseball fans (except Cardinals and Sox fans, who generally dislike all Cubs) loved Sammy before the corked bat incident and his leaving the last game of the 2004 season early — and further, that it’s generally true that guys like this (and McGwire and Bonds) are more forgiven by their own team’s fans than by others.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
A few, some, perhaps.
Even Cubs fans… used to call him "Selfish Sammy" before the 1998 season launched him into national fame.
Not many were. If you said inserted some or a few, I might find that statement believable.
Glad that you and so many other Cubs fans have finally come around to what we White Sox fans saw saw clearly ages ago. What took you so long?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Like I said...
… many of us saw Sammy for what he was, pre-1998.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
exactly
and no matter how hard you try and convince a fan of another team Al, it will never happen. To most fans of other teams, we all loved him blindly, which is incorrect, but so be it
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Nice strawman!
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
how do you figure?
that is the plain truth, like it or not DrC
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I NEVER said...
…we all loved him blindly…
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
read what i said again
To most fans of other teams, we all loved him blindly, which is incorrect, but so be it
I never said you did. You are incorrect in your accusing and quoting me
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Pardon me, but...
… you said that in response to a debate that Al and I were having, right?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
a debate about Cub fans
which I happen to be, so I will pipe. I was not rude, I didnt curse you out, and this is a public forum which Al is kind enough to allow me to post on.
Now, about you quoting me wrong and making a false statement about what I said? I respect you DrC, so I am hoping you are better than BLou and can actually accept and acknowledge a mistake
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Uncle
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Many being...
what? What percentage of Cubs fans fit that description, pre-1998?
Sure, some Cubbie fans were skeptical of Sammy, but it was not common. Most Cubbie fans that I knew, conversed with and observed were gulping down The Sosa Show until the Tribune/Cubs decided they were done with Sosa and began a campaign to turn Cubbie fans against him.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I cheered the hell out of each HR he hit
but I never liked him. Liking the Cubs and wanting him to help the Cubs win, since he was a Cub is not the same as liking him the person.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
When did this become kosher among the many?
You state that “many of us saw Sammy for what he was, pre-1998.” Then you said this…
Clearly, numbers put up by Bonds, Sosa, McGwire and others were artificially enhanced.
Seeing as how you now recall your feelings about Sosa from 10+ years ago -
When did come to this view that Sosa used ’roids? Did you the many Cubs fans hold that view and express it publicly while Sosa was a Cub, or did you only begin to state such after he left the Cubs?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I think there were suspicions about Sammy..
… just as there were about Bonds, McGwire and others. There was less “evidence” about Sammy than some others, so I think many Cubs fans did turn a blind eye to that, at least.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Glad? Are you really glad?
Seeing as how you seem to have anointed yourself spokesperson for White Sox fans, are you really that insecure as a fan base that you’re not happy unless your cross-town brethren “come around” to your way of thinking?
Wouldn’t you rather have us Cub fans wallow along in our blissful ignorance, thus ensuring you can maintain your intellectual superiority?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself..."
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
says the one who quoted me wrong
pot calling the kettle………..
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
well, first of all, I'm not accusing, I'm asking...
…and second of all as it pertains to this sub-thread, I don’t see myself as having such strong opinions about something 12-15 years ago and then waiting all this time for a bunch of other people to finally see the light and acknowledge that I was right all along.
But maybe you were just singing along to that old Bo Diddley tune, in which case I applaud you on your taste in music. Good stuff…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Good for you!
But what does it say about you that you issue your put-downs and boast of yourself?
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Huh...
I re-read my two previous posts several times and I don’t see where I “issued” any put-downs or boasted of myself. Perhaps you could elaborate.
What I did do was review what you had posted on the subject and based on that, formulated several questions in the hopes of getting a better understanding of what you’re thinking. It seems very important to you that Cub fans “come around” to your 15 year old feelings about Sosa and I wanted to better understand why.
Was I tweaking you a bit? Of course I was. If you could somehow step outside yourself and look at this whole sub-thread from the perspective of this being a Cubs blog, I think you’d realize that what you wrote was very tweak-able.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You mean pull his head out of his ass?
Not going to happen.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 14, 2010 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
ballhawk
DrC also took my post and changed what I said in how it responded to it. He also told me that he was having a conversation (implying it was a private thing) with Al on BCB talking about Cub fans, and didnt seem to understand why I would make a comment. That will be his next defense against you IMHO.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
What about all those years that weren't '98 or '03
When the Cubs struggled to get to .500? Was he a prima donna then?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sosa's best season was 2001
A year the Cubs won 88 games and were in first place for much of the year. FWIW, Sosa’s 2001 numbers are arguably his best.
The Cubs will hire him as a batting instructor !
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Yeesh
Leave the strike out or home run to the AL
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Strike out or home run method*
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
He won't own up to it.
There is no proof. And he’s way too much of a prima dona to consider becoming an assistant coach like McGwire just did — let alone a minor league coach like Ryno — so it won’t be an issue.
But if he did, a lot people would harumph all at once, then we’d move past it.
Have you seen...
The pics of a young Sammy in a Rangers uniform…?
and the later inflated Sammy…?
Proof… lol… it’s all there…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
That man didn't harumph...
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
Give the governor a harumph. Harumph! You better watch your ass.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Why do I always get the defective one?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I’m sure I’m going to get lots of cat-calls for this, but I don’t believe he did roids, and there’s no proof.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 11, 2010 4:27 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Wow.
Dude, do you believe in fairies and unicorns? I loved Sammy, but there’s no way he was clean.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 11, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Loved him
until he walked out on his team. Then he lost me.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 11, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
You obviously have't seen Drew's
“Cubs Win” graphic :-)
you can’t get much by that #$%@ ballhawk -- LT
i have i have
and its purrrrrrrty
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Link?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
here it is
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Where's Matt Murton?
Every time I see a unicorn, I expect to see him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Japanese Unicorns
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
I'm just glad...
…there’s nothing homoerotic about that clip.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
where do you find these things???
I hope I dream dont dream of that tonight…..;)
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
it's a different
unicorn…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
we've discussed this.
It depends on whether you believe the veracity of the leaks on Sammy’s name on the early, supposed to be sealed, tests.
I’m not starting an argument as we disagree on whether the leaks are proof.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Anyone know if turning white is side effect of roids ?
Cause if it where there would be proof.
I wonder if you would have voted to acquit O. J ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 11, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
but that would mean Michael Jackson was on roids also
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I'm pretty sure Sosa has turned white
from the specific bleaching creams he uses.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
yes, apparently it's all the rage in the islands
unfortunately, I can’t remember the source.
you can’t get much by that #$%@ ballhawk -- LT
yes
I would have voted to acquit OJ. The prosecution in that case presented their evidence very badly.
Which has nothing to do with believing Sosa did roids or not. When there’s proof, I’ll believe it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
what did Santa bring you this year?
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 11, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
You really are a cockeyed optimist huh?
You should change your name to Billy Mumphrey
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
by DTJchris on Jan 11, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
really?
Have I called you a fool, or a bad cubs fan lately?
Nice.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
So you don't know what the term "bizzaro" means, huh.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
exactly ...
I wasn’t commenting on the tone of your comments, Drew. I was commenting on how you’re the opposite of BLou — but still get people riled up.
You’re right — you’re not mean to other people. I probably should have noted that.
This is the most pathetic statement ever made by a pathetic poster
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Well stated.
Nothing more to add save absolute disbelief that anyone could make such a claim.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
whatever, dood
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
here kitty kitty kitty
surprised no one else called the cat
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Since there's no de-recommend button,
I’m gonna go ahead and recommend this, in hopes that it turns green so everybody can see this ridiculousness highlighted.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
So let me ask you this:
Did you believe Mark McGwire did steroids before yesterday?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I never saw any proof that Mark McGwire did steroids before he admitted it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
question, dodged
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
not in the slightest
I don’t believe something there’s not proof for. There was no proof McGwire did steroids before he admitted it. There’s no proof Sosa did steroids either.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
you are a trusting soul I guess
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
OK, then let me ask you this:
Do you suspect that Sammy did steroids?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
you mean...
Can you imagine Sammy doing steriods?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
No. I take the man at his word. Furthermore, he talked about taking other, properly legal supplements that account for his increase in power.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
You mean the Flintstone vitamins?
You actually believed that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
no the Androgene (I think that's what it was)
which was legal at the time.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
The Andro?
I don’t recall Sammy being on that, only McGwire.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
perhaps I'm not remembering it properly then.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, stop using your imagination so much.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
CREATINE
That’s what Sosa used.
Sosa did acknowledge (as did Barry Bonds) to using creatine, which is a completely legal nutritional supplement.
http://www.sammysosa.info/biography/
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I remember that too, now.
Sure, he probably used that. But I doubt that was the only thing he used.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
well
like I said before, even if he did use steroids, I think he deserves to be in the HoF anyway, so it’s relatively irrelevant to me. However, until I see proof…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
OK.
I was just trying to see if this was an issue of semantics more than anything else.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
ok
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I respectfully disagree.
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 12, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
because a picture of bigger muscles is proof?
Look, I’m not interested in arguing this. I haven’t seen proof that he did roids. But even if he did, I think he deserves to be in the Hall, just like McGwire deserves to be in the Hall. So my opinion on that doesn’t change anyway.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
I wish you were my dad
so I could do all kinds of awesome shit and get away with it since I’d just make sure there was no “proof” I did anything wrong.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
that’s pretty funny, considering my kid thinks I’m an evil army sergeant, and even my parents call me a strict disciplinarian.
I’m glad you’re not my dad, since I would have been punished not for what I did do, but for what you thought I did, based on your own… imagination.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, we've all just decided on a whim to make up these steroid accusations toward Sammy Sosa...
and based all reasoning on our collective wild imagination.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
show me proof.
when there’s proof, I will believe. Otherwise, it’s all speculation, and I don’t care to condemn the man on speculation.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure what you mean by proof.
If you’re asking for direct proof, I agree with you there is none. My comment above that made the mistake of saying no proof when there is indirect proof. At least two kinds of it:
(1) There is a report that Sammie tested positive for Steroids. We haven’t seen it, obviously. We have no confirmation of it, obviously. It would not stand up in a court of law. But people who are just forming judgments are certainly entitled to assess the trustworthiness of the reports and conclude that it provides some evidence to them that he actually did use steroids.
(2) There is also the circumstantial proof of his change in body shape, the fact of his performances which would have been extraordinary in any other era and only measure up to other people (McGwire, Bonds, A-Rod, etc.) who either admitted or are strongly suspected of using steroids.
All these things are a form of proof, they just don’t “prove it” dispositively.
by Orval Overall on Jan 12, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Also, if you spell illuminati backwards and add ".com" to the end of it...well, just see for yourself.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
You don't suppose someone over at the NSA
just has a really good sense of humor, do you?
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
A quick WHOIS check...
… shows that domain registered to some guy in Utah. He probably thought it would be funny to have it FWD to the NSA site.
Which, in fact, it is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
+1
If the only proof you’ll accept is either a confession, being present during the 1990’s when someone was committing a crime, perhaps a video of him doing it, or maybe receipts showing “steriods” with a signature by Sammy Sosa, you’ll probably never have what you consider to be “proof”.
I believe Sammy used steroids. I can’t say that with 100% certainty, but I feel the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of him having done it. There’s a very small chance I’m wrong. Considering nobody’s facing any sort of criminal charges for any of this, I can live with that chance.
I'm not judging anyone else's conclusions
I’m simply stating what I will and won’t believe.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
I was going more for the size of his head.
The thing is, neither the Cubs nor the Cardinals won the Series in ‘98 so any cheating that took place didn’t matter in the end.
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 12, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like an OD...
…of Flintstone vitamins to me.
Anyway, I don’t see Sosa admitting to using PED’s anytime soon. His ego is just too large to allow that to happen. The only way it does is if someone produces solid evidence that he can’t refute.
Clemens is another matter. He will never admit it no matter what anyone has on him.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
They're the modern steroid fam-uh-lee.
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 12, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
his hat size would tell a lot
what was it when he was mini Sosa and when he was Super Sosa?
steroids make your head bigger, not just ego, in many cases.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
a few years ago maybe. but after seeing the latest public photo of him and mcgwire’s admission no. glad you helped us win when you were here. but i was pretty much over you when you checked out early and done with you completely when you conveniently forgot how to understand the english language when you were called before congress.
the big question is what happens when blb comes clean?
Sosa's Last Week as a Cub
Sammy has been ripped for giving up on the team.
Does anyone have the stats to back that up.
Sosa’s last 7 games – 7 hits, 3 runs, 4 RBI, 1 HR, .304 Avg .304.
Sammy played until game 161 when the TEAM was eliminated.
He didn’t play in the meaningless game 162 (Jason Dubouis played for the fans).
Sammy wasn’t a saint but he sure wasn’t the demon that gave up on his team.
no. but how many players would you respect for actually not showing up for all of your teams games when not injured or suspended or given leave with permission? i don’t really care if he didn’t play in that game. he still should have showed up and sat on the bench.
i would feel the same way about any player who did that, sosa not withstanding.
I don't know how I would feel
After 6 months of trying to win and coming up just short. I just think that one act should damn him. If the Cubs did not want to get rid of him at that time they would have tried to protect him by saying he did have permission. And if he played for the Cubs the next year, I’m guessing he would have apologized and his teammates would have forgiven him (even if it was just for the public). Sammy didn’t dog it or give up. The season was over.
No...
He played that game 161 because he didn’t give up on going to the playoffs. That is totally different than giving up on the team. He obviously had already lost faith in his team or he wouldn’t have walked out the next day. (Not to mention all of the probs with other players/manager)
He didn’t play that final game because he gave up on the team.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 11, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
I thought then and I still do
that Sammy could already read the handwriting on the wall at the end. He knew he was going to be scapegoated, so he essentially said, “Fine. You want to blame me? I’ll make it easy for you.”
I’m not endorsing his behavior, but that’s just how I see it.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
Yeah...maybe...
I don’t know if he would have been “scapegoated.” A lot of the blame for the team failing would be on him, but that was just because he was viewed as a “leader.” I think more of the blame still fell on Dusty/Wood/Prior.
Regardless, like you said, it still doesn’t make what he did right.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 11, 2010 6:51 PM CST up reply actions
Doesn't make it right, sure
But that incident alone shouldn’t demonize him either. Thankfully, we have years of ego and showboating along with PED use to help with that.
I don't know...
… I don’t think he ever apoligized for it. So… that might’ve been enough to “demonize” him. But like you said, there are years of ego, showboating, and PED use to give himself more reason to be unliked.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 12, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions
I honestly don't feel like he was ever given a fair chance by the organization to do that
Note that I didn’t say “no chance”. Basically, as soon as that had happened, the story was leaked and he was made out to be a pariah for the frustrations of that season (look at the above poster about his stats that final week). I’m guessing the organization saw this as their chance to break from Sammy and the past (especially given that he was no longer the player he once was), and as such made it incredibly difficult for any other outcome other than the divorce of proud Sammy and the Cubs.
Didn't we have those guys, Wood and Prior
I know I’m reaching here, they were no names and this was less than a decade ago. But weren’t they injured the majority of the year?
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
But doesn't he have a professional obligation to stay with his team until the season is over?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
There's no proof he didn't...oh, wait...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 12, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, everyone has his or her own opinion.
You don’t seem to have an issue with anyone who did steroids, and that’s fine. I don’t think you can call anyone “self-righteous” who feels the other way, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I absolutely take issue with steroid use in baseball.
It’s against the rules. Going forward, the punishment is well-defined and I hope everyone using is caught and receives that punishment.
The difference is that I look back on the consequence-free environment of drug use in baseball from the 30-40 years leading up to the amended CBA in 2005 and know that anyone who used amphetamines or steroids during that time was doing so in an environment that silently encouraged that behavior, and that almost any of us would have done the same if we were in that same situation.
You're probably right.
I’ll have a post up tomorrow on this entire issue.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What happens?
Sammy gets in trouble with the Feds for perjury. He doesn’t have the freedom like McGwire to come out and admit it. McGwire exercised his right to avoid self-incrimination by pleading the fifth. Sosa did not plead the fifth and denied using steroids. He has since been linked to a positive test in 2003, but the Feds have not gone after him. He’s been sitting happy in the Dominican and he can stay there.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Exactly right Ace, Sammy won't come forward because of the prejury issue.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Actually...
… Sammy probably can do it, because he didn’t say anything at the hearing at all.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I thought he did deny it at some point of the hearing...
I might be wrong though.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
I believe Sammy's testimony was that he didn't use illegal steroids.
Here’s the catch, while steroids were illegal in the US during this time, they weren’t illegal in countries like the DR where Sammy was from.
If Sammy came out and said he took steroids while in the DR, it wasn’t illegal and he didn’t commit perjury.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 11, 2010 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
They also weren't banned from baseball either at the time he was using them
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
They were according to Fay Vincent's memo in 1991
Anabolic steroids, that is. A lot of other substances joined the banned list later.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Fay Vincent’s memo had no effect on the status of steroids vis-à-vis MLB. It had already been previously ruled in binding arbitration that the commissioner had no power to impose drug rules.
--
Dan Szymborski
dan@baseballprimer.com
by D.Szymborski on Jan 27, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
he said it through an interpreter
And I don’t think that will protect him. I’d be curious about the statute of limitations, though.
There's a reason for that
The metabolites in Rafael Palmeiro’s system indicated that he took the steroids after his testimony. They couldn’t hit him from perjury because his testimony, without proof that he used before then, is accurate from a legal point of view. Of course, we all know he’s lying. There’s just no proof.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Drew and I have no problem taking him at his word.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 13, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
It won't happen
Its pretty obvious what he was doing. People do not grow like that without reason.
As far as him quitting on the team….I don’t care what his stats were the last week of the season, he was usually all about himself anyways. He left before a game without permission. Period. Complete diva like behavior. If he wasn’t playing he was going home, screw his teammates.
I never found him to be all that intellegent. Maybe he believes he was clean and does not know what he was doing. Maybe he forgot how to speak English at the hearings.
I guess we will never know.
I honesty don't think much would happen at all
Because at this point, whether or not he did them, we all know that steroids were a pervasive part of baseball culture for a long time. There were so many players on so many teams at all levels taking them, that now it doesn’t suprise anybody when someone comes out.
As for perjury, the feds could give a damn about that. Palmerio lied, and nothing was done to him. No what would happen is there will be a big hoopla like now, probably a couple weeks in the news cycle and then we would move on. Sammy was a lot of things to this team for a lot of years, and whether you like him or not, he did carry a lot of bad teams on his back, and played for a lot of years when he was the only hitter in the lineup worth talking about. I do feel that he should have showed up for the last game, that walking out like that was a sign of disrespect not only to the cubs and the fans, but more importantly to his teammates. As a soldier we take great pride in building the team concept and putting the needs of others before your own. Obviously Sammy didn’t do that.
Whether he used or not we’ll never know, and other then a supposed positive test, there is no other proof. Please dont tell me look at his body, because I can show you other pics of athletes in other sports who are just as big as he was and are clean. This is America and he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Either way, this will probably never happen since sammy has no desire to return to baseball.
I agree with most of what you said
The perjury issue the feds definitely care about. Look at Bonds and Clemens. Both are dealing with perjury issues focused around steroids
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Sammy own up? lol
Either…
1) It won’t happen…
or
2) We will be like, who is this guy on the TV because Sammy looks nothing like Sammy anymore.
What does both of these mean to us fans? We will NEVER hear him “own up!”
Sosa isn't McGwire
Technically speaking, McGwire never denied taking steroids before Congress or in front of the media. Rather he clamed up and said NOTHING.
Sam-ME Steroid on the other hand denied, denied, denied. Even when the leak came out a few months ago.
Sammy is a douche. McGwire is a douche. Neither will ever come remotely close to Hall of Fame election. If the Cardinals want to hire McGwire as a batting coach / sideshow, then that’s their perogative.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
LaRussa is just so pathetically unbelievable
LaRussa says today, and I quote,
“McGwire wishes he had played in a different era”
“The As were on the forefront of weight training and steroids were not in play for McGwire in Oakland”
Unbelievable. Totally unfuckingbelievable.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Jan 11, 2010 5:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
That is ridiculous.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Tony is the bigggest douche
Frankly, his comments and behavior regarding McGwire are disgusting.
by elgato on Jan 11, 2010 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Tony LaRussa
is trying to save his own sorry-ass legacy.
The man has two rings and one of them is horribly tainted by steroids.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I dunno ...
TLR might be one of those people who is so loyal that he can’t see reason. You know the type — they might still believe Sosa didn’t use …
McGwire kept saying he didnt tell TLR until this morning...yeah sure.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
Man was I wrong.
I used to kind of respect Tony LaRussa and quietly hoped he’d return to the Sox. I agree with you and man was I wrong.
Tony, stay in St. Louis.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
Oh man
Who ya crappin La Russa? He’s supporting him for not lying to congress (withholding the truth is the same as lying in my book) and saying he had no idea McGuire took PED’s?! You were his manager for FIFTEEN YEARS. If you’re willing to give the guy the hitting coach position, you obviously have a good relationship with the guy. I think you’re full of crap TLR
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
my shoulders will be momentarily raised
i believe this is called a shrug.
i will probably say something like “big shock.” or “eh, whatever.”
If he does, he does...
great, if he doesn’t…who gives a rats ass. Personally, I think the longer you wait to admit it, the harder it will be for the fans and everyone else to forgive and maybe forget. Time will tell…
You ARE freaking out MAN!
Sosa won't fess up, unless...
…someone from his posse tells their story. There are several guys out there who know the truth about Sosa. They’ve probably been collecting checks (well probably not checks but gifts and cash) from Sosa and thus disinclined to speak, but his day will come. I’d expect Sosa to deny it again. But someone has knowledge, and was perhaps intimately involved with him and roids, and eventually that story will come out. Sosa has a lot of money but probably not enough to keep the truth hidden forever.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
It is sad McGuire and Sosa (amongst others)
didnt fess up out the gate, like Giambi and Pettite did. No one cares that they (Giambi/Pettite) used anymore, cuz they were honest, said they screwed up, and the fans accepted it. People make mistakes, and they tok ownership of it. Sosa/McGwire and you can add Bonds and Clemens (amongst others) who denied, lied, and that will hurt the forgiving process IMHO
kind of like Manny last season, how can a Dodger fan support him after the way they ripped Bonds, talk about hypocritical
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
But did Giambi and Pettitte really fess up out the gate?
Did they – one day just out of the blue – decide to hold a press conference and say “I took steroids and I’m sorry”? I don’t think so.
I’m hoping someone else remembers the specifics, but I’m pretty sure these guys were outed, in one way or another. Maybe via a reporter, maybe the Mitchell report, maybe the “List”, etc.
My point is, they used, just like all the others. Coming clean like they did just proves they (or their agents) have an advanced degree in Damage Control.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Jan 11, 2010 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
further...
… if anyone believes that Pettitte only took steroids for the short while that he claimed to have, I have a bridge to sell you.
Giambi held a hilarious press confrence
With Torre helping in which Giambi basically said nothing and thus kinda said everything. I think he fully confessed later. I never saw the press confrence, sometime after the Congressional hearings, but read the transcript and remembering it seeming kinda Soppranos/Marx brothersi-ish.
Pettitte came clean after the Mitchel Report, didn’t he?
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
I think you're right about Pettite
With Giambi, I thought he had retired by that point. He’d been injured a bunch and didn’t play well even when he was on the field. He hasn’t done much since then. I’d say he owes his career to ‘roids and I’d keep him out of the HOF for that reason
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
Cornered
I think they were all cornered in one way or another.
My point is, they used, just like all the others. Coming clean like they did just proves they (or their agents) have an advanced degree in Damage Control.
I agree.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
I think less people careless about players like Pettite and Giambi and more about Sammy and Mac
is because of the 98 season and what it meant for baseball. Pettite and Giambi weren’t after the coveted HR record. I think if Sosa and Mac came out right after the accusations people would have made this big a deal about it then.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees when we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Jan 11, 2010 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
It's the confessional that people seem willing to forgive
Even if it comes after the proof. It’s almost like score is being kept: the ones that confess are eventually largely forgiven over time. And the ones that are suspected that haven’t confessed, haven’t been forgiven. Maybe the last guy who confesses will have the entire steroid era pinned to his back.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
For the record, I care that they used them
I give them a little respect because they came out and admitted it. But they did so as a result of a positive test. I don’t think they belong in the HOF.
I put Sosa, Clemens, Bonds, McGuire, Manny, Ortiz all in the same category.
Now here’s my exception. And I may be scrutinized for this:
ARod
If he was honest and only used them for a few years in Texas (some mediocre years in Texas albeit), I’m ok with that. Dumb stupid kid. If he’s lying and was using them up until they were banned, then forget him. But if he only tried them a few times, I would say meh.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the longer they "own" their HR records, the harder it is to question whether they deserve it.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
If Sosa confesses
I’ll turn white.
But seriously, in honor of Big Mac’s 66 and Slammin’ Sammy’s 62, maybe Sosa should confess four days later, on Friday. Even if he doesn’t have anything to confess. It’s what the people want. Move out of the villian column, Sammy, and bask in the anonymity of the sinners!
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 9:09 PM CST reply actions
sorry
Mac’s 70 & Sosa’s 66….see how memorable those numbers are?
Maris 61 still sticks though
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 11, 2010 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Giambi, Palmiero...screw them all
None will ever get into Cooperstown. THAT shall be their punishment, ala the fate Pete Rose had to suffer for being a douche and betting on baseball.
If St. Louis wants to make Mark McGwire a sideshow, then let them. They just look silly in doing so.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Good post BLou
If you are cheating the game of baseball, you do not deserve to have your name mentioned with the greats of the game
What TLR and St. Louis is doing to try and get Big Mac in the HOF is ridiculous. I have hope for the Cubs this year because Mac is going to be giving advice to Pujols and Holiday. Can’t wait to see how that will turn out.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
as I said in an earlier thread
if you’re going to kick people out for cheating, a significant amount of the HOF is going to have to be removed.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Fine by me
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
exactly
starting with Gerald Perry
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Gaylord
I am batting 1000
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
lol
just picking at you… I’m sure everyone knew who you meant.
by LT on Jan 12, 2010 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
no worries, i have done some picking
and if i can pick, i better be pickable…..wait, that came out wrong, SWL close photoshop NOW
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
awwww MAN.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 13, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Sosa should be barred from ever again entering the United States
A. He used illegal performance enhancing drugs.
B. He lied before a Congressional hearing
If those two offenses don’t revoke a person’s visa into this country, then something is very wrong with the system. Let the douche bag rot in the Domincan for the rest of his shortened life. His balls are shriveling up from steroid use and his pigmentation is fading away…it won’t be long before his funeral. That is mean and harsh and sad to say, but in a few years we WILL see some of these steroid abusers pay the ultimate price for their sin, and that is a dramatically shortened lifespan. Maybe THEN people will understand the horrors of steroids that go way beyond the ruination of baseball games.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Dude. Chill Out
A. You have no proof that he took steroids let along illegal steroids.
B. There is no proof (yet) that he lied to Congress.
C. All of the players that took these drugs (legal or illegal) did so of their own free will and were adults. If they suffer anything it’s thier problem and issue not yours to judge.
telling BLou to chill out, or presenting him with facts
is a waste of time. He is makes up his own reality and believes we all should accept it
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Hahahaha
His balls are shriveling up from steroid use and his pigmentation is fading away…it won’t be long before his funeral. That is mean and harsh and sad to say, but in a few years we WILL see some of these steroid abusers pay the ultimate price for their sin, and that is a dramatically shortened lifespan. Maybe THEN people will understand the horrors of steroids that go way beyond the ruination of baseball games.
This is revenge fantasy fan fiction. Even by your low standards this is hilariously stupid.
by Wreckard on Jan 11, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Ken Caminiti
He died at age 41 of an OD induced heart attack. Maybe his steroid use opened the door into the world of drugs. I wonder how many user eventually turn to shooting up drugs to get a similar rush that they got from the roids?
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 13, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
He also had:
Coronary artery disease and cardiac hypertrophy (an enlarged heart) that contributed to his death. Both of those things have been linked to steroid use.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 13, 2010 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
Wasn't there cocaine use implicated in Caminiti's death, too?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that and more
Tissue and toxicology tests confirmed Caminiti’s cause of death as “acute intoxication due to the combined effects of cocaine and opiates,” Brugess said. She said those drugs had weakened his heart.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Speedballing is not the way to go if you have heart problems.
Even if you don’t, for that matter.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
I agree, Caminiti should have taken a page from McGwire and only used "very small amounts"...
and only to “help him recover faster”.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 13, 2010 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
I would have to agree with that
but not everyone uses common sense
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Temporary shrinkage
His balls are shriveling up from steroid use…
That is a non-permanent problem from steroid use. Stop using ’roids and that issue subsides.
As far as the “shortened life” that may actually be overstated. The poster child for that claim, Lyle Alzado, his death of a brain tumor, to claim that that was from steroids was quite the logic leap.
For an humorous yet thought provoking view of ’roids check out, “Bigger, Stronger, Faster.”
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
its BLou
he is the village idiot, and talking reason with him is a lost cause
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
judge not
lest ye be judged, my friend. You’ve got no basis for 90% of what you say.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
you can't help saying stupid stuff I see
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
not to justify the use by anyone
but how many used due to injuries? hell i have been prescribed a steroid for bronchitis (i know differet type of steroid, but its still a steroid). I truly think you can say Big Mac would have hit 500 HRs without steroids (pointing to his rookie year as a twig).
Again not saying it makes the use right, but does it change how it is perceived by anyone?
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
how does a player use steroids....daily? weekly? just when they have a game?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 11, 2010 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
i do not know the exacts, but I am sure its out there somewhere
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I think you'll see that excuse more and more as people are outed
Lots of people are going to see that as a crutch and an acceptable one. I don’t believe it was the only reason he used them and I don’t believe that if he were healthy he wouldn’t have used them.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 12, 2010 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
is it an excuse
or reality? I was given steroids for helth issues more than once.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I heard an orthopedic surgeon on the radio today say that those steroids are totally different than PED's...
and that by no means would they help an injury…..in fact he said that the injuries McGwire spoke of last night you would only get from 1. old age or 2. the PEDs ….(this morning on 670 am in chicago)
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
i had not heard that
I miss being able to stream at work
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
LMAO
i was having to get around the blocked sites with a proxy before, but now they look at the usage, and streaming killed me, so i was told not to anymore
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
It would not change my opinion.
It would only confirm it.
Anyone who thinks that any major sport is free of doping, is deluding themselves. It is a sad thing to have to say, but the revelations in many sports around the globe, has left me pesimistic about the honesty of most officials, sports organizations and athelets.
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
by eths on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Why should it make any difference?
Anyone with a brain knew that Mac and Sammy were lying, and know now that Mac is fessin’ up in a pathetic attempt to get into the HOF. I found especially egegregious how he basically blamed his lawyers for his lying, he still cannot completely fess up. The time for them to come clean and earn the respect of the fans back was years ago. That shipped sailed.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Some of the Sammy haters need to take a deep breath.
There, doesn’t that feel better?
His name was Sammy Sosa and he played a child’s game for a lot of money. He wasn’t Pope Sosa, Reverend Sosa, or Senator Sosa, OK? Relax.
We know, he had an enormous ego. Imagine that, an athlete with an ego. Shocking. The Tribune was more than happy to foster this attitude until they needed a scapegoat after 2004.
Some of you may not remember, but for several years the Cubs had Sosa, Grace, and a bunch of bums wearing Cubs uniforms. Tuning in to see a Sosa HR was probably going to the highlight.
IMO this isnt about hating anyone....it is a matter of protecting the statistics, the records, the HOF, the reputation of baseball.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
the who of what now?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/41532/a_needtoknow_basis_cheating_methods.html?cat=14
http://ziskmagazine.blogspot.com/2006/08/history-of-cheating-in-baseball-by.html
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/cheaters/ballplayers.html
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/baseball/cheaters.html
http://legalball.com/MLB_News_Cheating_Culture
Etc, etc, etc.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 12, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
wow....that really makes me feel rather small and stupid...
….I hate this day, I wish everyone was just talking as much about Maddux instead of McGwire….one thing I did learn today was that this issue of steroids will never go away or be resolved. I love baseball…..I would rather look at it thru the eyes of a child who knows nothing of these things.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
it's strange ...
I kinda like the fact that baseball has issues — and that we CARE about the issues.
I like the NFL, but I can’t love it because issues like PED use hardly get any attention. Baseball is just as messed up as any sport — and it has had problems for decades (gambling, segregation, labor disputes, PEDs, etc.).
Baseball, in my mind, is very human AND we hold it to high standards. I can see the appeal of watching baseball through the eyes of a child, but I’m glad most fans don’t.
thanks for that, you're right...its been a long day already....
I guess baseball is like life…take the good with the bad type of thing…anyway, thanks again
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 12, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
people in the HOF have admitted to cheating many times
and none of them have been removed, which shows the contradiction I disagree with
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
could you miss the point by any more?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
I’d shrug, ignore the 30 FanPosts about the topic, and probably never think about it again.
I’d like to say that I would have never done steroids, but I have never been put in a position where my financial and professional future could be inflated and extrended by absorbing a health risk. I’ve never watched my peers take that risk and surpass their own talent and possibly make millions more. I’ve never looked at my job and doubted if I had any future prospects after I left it in 10 years or so. And I’ve never cheated and been faced with an entire country and my own management embracing my success while possibly knowing an underlying cause.
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