Cubs Sign Five Arbitration-Eligible Players
by Al Yellon on Jan 19, 2010 12:22 PM CST
in News
168 comments
From a press release:
The Chicago Cubs today agreed to terms on 2010 contracts with the following five arbitration-eligible players: infielders Jeff Baker and Mike Fontenot, catcher Koyie Hill, right-handed pitcher Angel Guzman and left-handed pitcher Tom Gorzelanny. Terms of the contracts were not disclosed.
That leaves Ryan Theriot, Sean Marshall and Carlos Marmol still unsigned.
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Don't know how much stock to put into it
but Gordon Wittenmeyer tweeted some figures: Fontenot (1M), Baker (975K), Guzman (825K), Gorzelanny (800K), Hill (700K).
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions
Sounds pretty reasonable for all of them, if correct.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Carrie Muskat confirms numbers
I wonder if these were about the figures they were thinking when they were estimating this season’s payroll and what the total is up to now.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
all five had least amount of negotiation leverage
None were established starters, Guzman showed promise but his history still holds risk.
Theriot has the most leverage being a starter for two years, has some “agent” selling assets in OBP and leading singles hitter, Gorzelanny was an established starter and Marshall is a valued lefty….
My guess is that Gorz is the last one to fall, and if the cubs sign Sheets it could be his way to find a way out of the club.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
if the cubs sign sheets
i think silva would be the one out
by jesus christos on Jan 19, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Actually..
… signing Sheets would make Sean Marshall available for trade. He has trade value. Silva doesn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Doubt he'll be cut before spring training even starts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed
There’s no way Silva gets cut without the ubs at least trying to get something out of that $16M. Not only will Silva not get cut then, I’m thinking he’ll get at least 2 months into the season before they would consider that.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 19, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Or at least 2 weeks
They gave Vizcaino that much….
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Vizcaino was much less money
and he was only signed through ’09. I believe he was at $4.5M, no?
Silva will get his fair chance, even if it’s in the pen.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 19, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I was being a bit sarcastic
Silva will get a little time before having some kind of injury.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
90 day DL for a stubbed toe? Let's give the guy a chance first.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Sorry - I should have said "injury"
Because if he’s not effective, that’s what he’ll have.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
agreed
And I bet Hendry’s tendency to trade guys so they can have better opportunities elsewhere would kick in. You could argue that Marshall has paid his dues and then some.
That does make sense.
I’d guess a number of teams could use a back-of-the-rotation starter like Marshall.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
Do you mean Marmol and not Gorzellany?
Because we’ve already signed Gorzellany, per this post.
I’d guess that all three of Marmol, Theriot, and Marshall will be signed, and they’ll be signed for more than what these five made.
If we sign Sheets, then Marshall or Gorzellany become trade bait once Lilly is healthy. Silva will get an extended look in spring training and perhaps early into the season. If he doesn’t show signs of life, he’ll be DLed. If he continues to not show signs of life, he’ll be let go. But I just hope that Silva isn’t forcefed chances in the rotation at the expense of better options merely in the name of “trying to get their money’s worth” out of him.
Actually, all 8 players are signed.
Players are considered signed for 2010 when they are offered a contract by the deadline by their team.
At this time, only 5 have agreed with the Cubs on the amount of the 1 year contract. If the other 3 can’t come to terms with the Cubs, they will go to arbitraition.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 19, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
Right - so same point, different terminology...
Replace signed or will sign with agreed to terms and will agree to terms.
That would be good if that's where they're at.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
why would Fontenot make more than Baker?
Service time?
Because he's lefthanded.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
$25K scrappy bonus
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Mullet incentives
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
or maybe...
They gave him a raise so he could get a haircut from THIS CENTURY!
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
probably
time with the team?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
that's what I thought
10 bucks says Baker has a better year.
no way
will I take THAT bet. I still owe for the Gregg bet I had last year.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
$20
that he’d outperform Woody’s 2008 numbers.
I shoulda made the bet that he’d outperform Woody’s 2009 numbers…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Oohh. Yeah, bad bet.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Gregg started off alright
it was mid-season where he bombed.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Did he outperform Woody's 2009 numbers?
Without looking, I’d guess they’re pretty similar.
I’m not exactly a Hendry defender, but not giving Wood a multiyear deal was a good call. I know, I know — Wood might have pitched better in Chicago than in Cleveland. But his price tag, especially considering the Cubs’ budget woes right now, was too high.
The injury risk was there, too.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Gregg had 23 saves in 2009
Woody had 20 saves in 2009.
DAGNABIT!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Not to defend Kevin Gregg
But he was good for two-plus months last season (before the back-to-back blown saves against the Marlins). Twenty-three saves isn’t a small amount.
Was the number of saves the only criteria?
Because elgato is right – they had very similar years.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
that was the bet
Gregg in 2009 would be better than Woody in 2008, but Woody had 34 saves in 2008.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure I would have taken it for 2009 vs. 2009 going in
The Indians appeared to have a much better team than they actually did.
I’m not sure that I would have made the one that you did, either, though. Oh, well.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
well
Gregg was on a roll early in the season. It goes to Project 3000 anyway.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
And that ain't bad
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
The Cajun Connection...
See… we need more cajuns… if we had a few more I bet we’d win post season playoff games…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
Slightly OT but
speaking of Cajuns, I hear Sheets’ fastball is topping out at 91MPH at his throwing session. He’s slated to throw breaking balls next. Supposedly his mechanics look good and as well.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
MLB Network reporter Trenni has been tweeting from Sheets throwing session.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
An MLB Network reporter is watching the session.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, the Cubs need to go beyond a Cajun Connection...
…to a Cajun Trifecta.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
He has pictuires of Jim?
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Jan 19, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
He has a soft spot in his heart for puppies
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
How many of these 5 got a NTC?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 12:27 PM CST reply actions
Now that's funny.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Six.
She asked: Are you a hopeless romantic?
I answered: I'm a Cubs fan, of course I am.
by Zy Toro Young on Jan 19, 2010 1:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Seven of those five do.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
seven of nine?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm. I guess more of her left side was converted than I thought
It is less susceptible to the coldness of space than the right.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Oh boy.
Star Trek human/Borg hybrid.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't you hear?
The entire roster is getting NTCs in their Spring Training welcome baskets.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
If it fits Silva
they really could continue to advertise it as one size fits all.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
Via Greenberg
While Soto looked slim and trim, one Cub who looked decidedly out of shape was newly acquired Carlos Silva, who bombed in a handful of appearances in the Venezuelan winter league after another disappointing season in Seattle. To put it frankly, he looks like he ate Eddie Guardado.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Linky?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=greenberg_jon&id=4830922
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
I don't know what Greenberg was eating.
Silva is a big man and always has been. I didn’t think he looked any worse than he did last year, and maybe a little bit better.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I didn't see before and after pictures
I just thought the quote was pretty hysterical, and it was a good article.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
What's the hold up on the rest?
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Theriot won't shutup.
Marshall and Marmol are waiting impatiently outside Hendry’s office.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
He's using the "If I do what I'm supposed to do, the Cubs will win." arguement to get Hendry to realize how under compensated he is.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
"C'mon, Jimbo, didn't you see me at Cubs convention?"
“I was like a friggin’ standup comic up there. People love me. Pay me my money, b**tch!”
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Lou still wins
For calling Jessica “sweetheart” and dropping a b.s. bomb on WGN.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
I gotta try and find that audio clip on 'GN's Web site.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
If you do...
… cut it out and post it as a fanshot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I assume you mean the former
Because you won’t find an unedited version of the latter.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
I’ve been meaning to post this as a Fanshot, but WGN Radio has posted a bunch of audio clips of the convention sessions as well as videos and pics.
I started at the bottom yesterday and have been working my way up. I’d guess the Sweetheart Incident occurred in the very first audio file on the list.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, that would be the place to look.
I’d say a little more than halfway through.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If you find it
Please note I asked about using Scales IN SEPT. Sweetheart which is why that quote in the paper so “irks” me. I am mad at myself for forgetting to ask on top of all of the rest why he was playing Scales in THE OF when he is an infielder. Had Lou used him in the infield to sub Fonty or Theirot I would not have been upset.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
I missed the B.S thing
When was that ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 19, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
From April to September of 2009.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Friday night on SportsCentral
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Yep, I was listening...
The radio went silent for about 10 seconds. The producer must have hit the emergency button, or whatever it’s called, to keep it from going on air.
I think it's called the "dump" button
Which, in this case . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 19, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Anybody heard about the Tuesday announcement?
I can’t find anything anywhere …
...regarding?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Oh ...
I thought there was talk on BCB over the weekend that someone had overheard Hendry talking about Tuesday at the convention.
I was running around all weekend, though — so maybe I didn’t read carefully enough.
There was a post about that.
But that was something overheard in an elevator, not any “official” announcement planned.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
didn't you say something about a rumor ...
about news this week, Al? Maybe in the Day 1 write-up?
Here's what I wrote.
Further, rumors have it that Jim Hendry is working on an acquisition that might be announced as soon as next week.
Pretty non-committal, IMO.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That could mean he's just buying a new dinette set.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, no ...
I wasn’t trying to accuse you of anything, Al. Sorry, if I wasn’t clear.
I was just trying to make sure I understood what was going on. No offense intended.
Fingers crossed
that it might refer to a certain throwing session (Sheets) today
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
that doesn't add up to me
If Sheets was that close to signing with the Cubs, why would he have a throwing session for several teams? Also, the Cubs’ comments at the convention seemed to indicate they want another reliever and another outfielder.
I predicted yesterday that Sheets would soon be a Cub, but I think I’m going to retract that.
Actually, I think he may have been talking about
the press conference the Cubs had today in the Dominican Republic. The Ricketts and the player dev are at the Cubs facility in the DR today. Not sure what they are announcing.
(The DR press conference was mentioned at the Down on the Farm session on Sun.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 19, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm offended
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
::feigns sympathy::
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 19, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
That was me and it wasn't a trade Hendry mentioned. It was signings.
It simply could have been the arbitration eligible signings already mentioned today. BUT, Jim did say he still thinks he’ll be able to add “another couple of players”. At least, that was the phrase he used. Pretty vague, but that’s expected I guess.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Acorns and assorted nuts
Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville
+1
That’s a good one!
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Jan 19, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
What's interesting in the arbitration amounts
players receive is there it service time seems to be the most important factor in the calculations
Hey, it's a new century!
Updates on Theriot, Marshall and Marmol
Per Carrie Muskat: Theriot asking for $3.4MM; Cubs offered $2.6MM. Marmol asking for $2.5MM, Cubs offered $1.75MM. And Sean Marshall asked for $1.175 mill while Cubs offered $800K.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 19, 2010 4:56 PM CST reply actions
So they offered Gorzelanny and Marshall the same amounts.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
As noted above...
… it seems to have a lot more to do with service time than with anything the player has accomplished.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
three point four million… dollars?
Seriously?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 19, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Consider service time.
He’s been a starting SS in the National League for three years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Since when?
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Was supposed to be a joke, but it was a joke fail.
Misread your comment.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Both of those would apply...lol
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
A classic that never gets old
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Theriot probably figures...
…his radio work on Kaplan’s show is worth a cool mill alone.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 19, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
there was also a clause in his contract last year that gives him an extra .5mill if he double clutches half of his plays
by jesus christos on Jan 19, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
and another $1M if he gets caught stealing every third attempt.
you can’t get much by that #$%@ ballhawk -- LT
Yeah, seriously.
People that have looked at this a lot more than I have say that players in their first year of arbitration eligibility tend to make about 40% of what they would on the free agent market. So for Theriot it’s equivalent to asking for an 8.5M contract as a free agent, and the Cubs countering with an offer of 7.25M. Which sounds about right to me.
At $3.4M, compared to alternatives, Theriot is a pretty good deal to play shortstop for the Chicago Cubs.
except of course, for the fact that he's not a very good shortstop.
I’d be a heck of steal at short too! I’d only ask for $500,000K as long as being able to play the position well isn’t demanded of me.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 19, 2010 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
Again, in all seriousness.
Whatever you might not like about Ryan Theriot, his overall game is at worst a little below average — closer to average than to replacement level, certainly. If the Cubs had a young shortstop in the system ready to go then Theriot would be basically expendable. If there was a really good or really undervalued shortstop available by free agency or trade that would be an option for the Cubs. As it is Theriot for $3 mil and change is doing pretty well.
That is something said many times here
and sadly those who dislike Theriot do not care about the worth as you show.
Kinda like the anti-Hendry brigade
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
assuming the numbers aren't outrageously high or low,
most seem to end up right around the halfway point if they settle before arbitration. And Cubs haven’t gone to arbitration in a long time, so I’m figuring Marshall at $1M, Marmol at $2.1M, and Riot at $2.9M.
Any other guesses? I sense another BCB pool in the offing…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
My figures too except I thought Riot gets $3M.
What’s $100K amongst friends?
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Seeing as how Riot's not even half the man Steve Austin was...
…I just don’t see the Cubs making him a 3 million dollar man.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This guy?
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Right now the pitching staff shapes up as follows
Rotation…Dempster, Zambrano, Wells for sure…with Gorzelanny and Silva (shudder) likely the odds on favorites to win the last two slots until Lilly is back
Pen…Marmol, Guzman, Grabow, Marshall…with a literal cast of thousands vying for the last two or three slots
===
All I know is that Andrew Cashner and Jay Jackson had better be legitimate and get major league ready in a big hurry. This staff as currently envisioned is not the stuff of a divisional challenger.
Anybody want to start a pool on when Carlos Silva is officially banished to the DL forever with a phantom injury???? I say April 25th, or semi-coincidental to an arrival date of Lilly.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I kinda figure that Big Z will punch Silva in the face for some imagined slight
…and Silva will go on the DL.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
he will be punched in the face because BLou will break the Silva is on steroids story
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
He will be punched in the face because Z was upset at BLou becoming a Cardinals fan.
Wait, isn’t he a Cardinals fan already?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 19, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
He will be punched because he was dispensing Gatoraide
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
It's funny, with all the talk of how bad Silva is, lots of people forget we're also looking at
giving Gorzo a slot in the rotation, and he’s a pretty bad pitcher himself.
Yes, yes, he had a good year in 2007
He hasn’t posted an ERA under 5.00 since then.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 19, 2010 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
Very Good News
Bruce Miles’ latest blog speculates that the Cubs and Theriot may head to arbitration. This is great. We’ve known about how Theriot overrates himself; it was worrisome that perhaps the Cubs overrated him as well. But Bruce writes,
The Cubs, from what I discern, don’t feel Theriot is a $3 million player.
Good. This is the first step towards making sure we don’t offer him a long-term contract.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
CALLING SHAWN GOLDMAN!
Shaaawwwn… Shaaawwwwwwwwn!
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
What?
Is Shawn supposed to come and tell me about how Theriot is a 3 win player and how much that’s worth? The fear I alluded to above is that the Cubs will sign Theriot when the “replacement” players will all be better than Theriot. In 2011, the Cubs should have at least two middle infielders better than Theriot by all measurements that don’t include his scrappiness and non-stop self-PR machine.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
One of my favorite quotes from the convention
Friday night, Sports Central – the Scrappy One was a co-host with Kaplan. Dempster thanked Kaplan for giving Theriot a microphone so he didn’t have to chase down reporters to get one.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 20, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
I also enjoyed that
as well as when Dempster said that when Sut is doing pre-game interviews, if you watch closely, Theriot slips him a $100 bill.
"That's the beauty of baseball. You never know what's going to happen until you get that final out." –Lou Piniella
by cubbiebluekdawg on Jan 20, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Are you talking about Lee and Castro?
That’s just silly. Best case scenario for Castro is September 2011 – any sooner would be rushing him. And as for Lee… the kid is 18 years old. His arrival is so far out, he won’t factor in until 2013 at the earliest. Even if Castro beats all expectations and is ready in 2011, they’ll keep him in the minors til June, and then either he or Theriot can move to second.
I’m not saying lock him up or even buy out his arb years, but he’s a $10+ million value. Using the 40/60/80 arb calculation, that puts him at around $4 million for this year.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
TEN MILLION DOLLARS???
aw, HELL, no.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 20, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
No. I'm not talking about Lee.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
So who's the other replacement? Castro and...?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
One of Fontenot and Baker will be better options at 2B than Theriot, if not both.
I’m bearish enough on Theriot going forward, that I won’t be surprised if Barney is a better option in 2011. But more realistically, given the way the Cubs are talking, Castro is the 2011 SS, and Theriot’s bat can hold down 2B, especially if we’re starting Castro.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Oh yeah, I forgot about Darwin "The Purple Evolutionist" Barney.
I believe he did get a spring training invite. (And I have the same concerns about Theriot’s bat.)
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
that should read "can't"
Theriot’s bat can’t hold down 2B.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Do you think Castro will be ready for full-time play in 2011, though?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of that depends on how he does in the minors in 2010.
The question can’t really be answered yet.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Seems like a safer bet to say he'll be ready for 2012.
With Sept. callups maybe this year and certainly in 2011.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
i wasnt aware a decent BA below average defense and zero power was worth 10 mill
by jesus christos on Jan 20, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
Several metrics show he's not, in fact, below average on defense.
And he’s a shortstop, which boosts his value even more.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
now if you could just boost his arm strength...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Right, daver,
Theriot’s value is entirely caught up in his playing SS adequately. If he can get his OBP back up, it will be a different story, but I’d expect a bat bounceback from Fontenot before Theriot who doesn’t have the power to sustain a high OBP.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Which is why (I forgot to say)
Theriot at 2B makes no sense.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Yeah, ya gotta wonder how much his WAR will plummet if they move him to second.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by dat cubfan daver on Jan 20, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions
have you looked at anything
besides your (and others) opinion on BCB about Theriot?
Chone has him estimated to be $9.8 mil for 2010 and Fans has him at $14.1 mil.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Let's sell him for $12 mil and call it a day.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 20, 2010 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Tim
The question is why is he valued that highly. Go to fangraphs Theriot page. At the bottom, they show their math for how he gets his WAR and Dollar worth. Over the past three years, his bat is a negative, his SS defense is a little above average but not enough to make up for the bat. Then all the value comes from his position and replacement level scores. In other words, it’s hard to find a SS who can give you a .350 OBP and above average defense. But once we have Castro, Theriot’s value plummets by moving to 2B. And he’s getting older at a position that wears on players with his skill set. And he’s got a history of back problems which could tank his defensive value.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
gotcha
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Average defense...
and a league average bat cost the Red Sox $12.5 million for two years plus a first round draft pick. $5 million is a figure that’s frequently thrown around as an approximate value of mid-late first round pick. That puts Scutaro at $8-9 million.
Theriot also has a league average bat and he’s a bit better than average on defense. Obviously this is in dispute – most metrics show him consistently above average. I think it’s highly unlikely he’s worse than average. Anyway, as a 29-year-old, he must be worth around $9 million, possibly more for extra grit.
Six years was the hope of the herd;
Unanimous but for one who demurred;
A prescient young man;
By the name of stlfan;
He knew Scotty would have the last word
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