Grace emerged from Steroid Era with more than his integrity

I always liked Grace and thinking about this makes me respect him just a little more...

over 2 years ago Endrick 17 comments 0 recs |

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Guess you missed this FanShot on the same topic a week ago.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 21, 2010 1:34 PM CST reply actions

I actually read it but...

I thought it gave a little more insight into him…
and the stuff on his numbers and thinking yeah I could see being tempted by
the possible increase in numbers…

It got me to thinking thought, I thought there was some bad blood between him
and Sosa. I can imagine how watching Sammy turn into a Macy’s Thanksgiving
Day Parade Balloon from the juice might piss him off.

Especially since his party monster image was sort of a running joke, but Sammy
using ’roids was overlooked.

- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.

by Endrick on Jan 21, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions

Grace v. Sosa

Sammy Sosa was a more talented played than Grace from the moment he arrived on the Cubs. And he was substantially better once he had his first 30/30 year, long before he grew all that extra muscle.

by Holtzmaniac on Jan 21, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions

he was a more talented hitter

Grace always owned Sosa in defensive ability.

Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 21, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions

LMAO

1) Grace played first base. He played it very well, but it’s still first base.
2) The pre-bulked up Sammy Sosa was a great defensive right fielder. Go back and watch some old games. Or take a look at some numbers: http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/measuring-defense-for-players-back-to-1956-part-2/

So no, Grace did not “own” Sosa in defensive ability. The only things that Mark Grace did better than Sammy Sosa were drink and butter up the media.

by Holtzmaniac on Jan 21, 2010 11:39 PM CST up reply actions

nice try

since the author says that his system is not perfect and he recommends to use other systems.

Sosa was not as good in the field as Grace. Anyone who saw Grace play first, and filed throws from such players as Shawon Dunston knows how important he was in the field.

Sosa was better than many think, but he will never be confused with a gold glove caliber OFer.

Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 22, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions

FWIW

here are the FanGraphs for

Sosa

Grace

Sadly the UZR is only there for the last few years, but look at how bad Sosa was during those years

Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 22, 2010 12:24 AM CST up reply actions

Defensive stats

are notoriously imperfect, but I think they’re more reliable than biased memories.

I agree with you that Grace was a very good fielder, particularly in his ability to catch errant throws. But I don’t know how much my memory is based on the fact that the media fawned over his ability to “save” Shawon Dunston. He did win 4 Gold Gloves, which I think means something despite some other obviously faulty Gold Glove selections (e.g. Rafael Palmeiro).

Grace may even have been better defensively than Sosa relative to their positions (obviously Sosa would have been much better at first base than Grace would have been in right field). But the idea that, as you said, “Grace always owned Sosa in defensive ability,” is one that is flat out wrong. Pre-bulked up Sammy was widely considered to be one of the best five-tool players in baseball. Two of the five tools are throwing ability and fielding.

by Holtzmaniac on Jan 22, 2010 1:30 AM CST up reply actions

Knowing Grace's proclivity with the ladies

I’m sure he emerged from the steroid era with a lot of things regardless of his integrity.

by jerry morales rules on Jan 21, 2010 1:55 PM CST reply actions

yeah he might have been taking some other meds

in large quantities…

by LT on Jan 21, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions

morning after pill?

Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 21, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions

I was thinking more like

anti-biodics…

by LT on Jan 21, 2010 8:38 PM CST up reply actions

Grace scored more without roids

Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 21, 2010 2:05 PM CST reply actions

Are we talking baseball here or....?

Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.

by Ryno Runner on Jan 21, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions

well

at least the SI article had a couple more bits of info….I guess

random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17

by AGC on Jan 21, 2010 2:06 PM CST reply actions

Just curious

With Grace coming out and saying he never took PEDs because he was concerned it may interfere with his “performance”, makes me ask the question, how did Sammy Sosa produce 4 children, in approximately 1993-1997, if he was injecting during that time? Either steroids have no effect on “performance” or Grace is just a dumb jock and a man’s man

Don't let anyone steal your Joy

by bigz38fan on Jan 21, 2010 11:32 PM CST reply actions

Okay, I have to admit, not a Grace fan

He didn’t cheat using steroids. That’s good.

He also didn’t take care of himself very well or do things that would have possibly improved his power, which was his main shortcoming. He smoked all the time, said that he couldn’t eat before a day game so he lost weight during the season, and stayed out all hours of the night. He was free to do all those things and enjoy his life as he saw fit. But I don’t think of Mark Grace and the word “integrity” going together much.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by cubzfan on Jan 22, 2010 7:19 AM CST reply actions 1 recs