Cubs Near Agreement To Stay In Mesa For Spring Training
by Al Yellon on Jan 21, 2010 4:04 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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Photo courtesy Mesa Convention & Visitors Bureau
Dave van Dyck reports on Chicago Breaking Sports:
The Cubs and the city of Mesa are close to a final agreement on a new Arizona spring-training home for the next 25 years that would include a new stadium, for which the Cubs would have naming rights.
The city sent a lengthy proposal to media and the city council is expected to approve its end of the deal Monday, with the Cubs' board of directors then reviewing it. That is expected to be a formality, as reported last weekend in the Tribune.
The Cubs, as noted in van Dyck's article, aren't making any formal announcement at this time, but after the jump, I have some more details.
UPDATE! More details from the (Mesa) East Valley Tribune, including a PDF of the Memorandum of Understanding that will be signed between the city of Mesa and the Cubs.
The agreement will include a combination of public and private money for the complex to be built in the Longbow area of Mesa. Further details on the exact site location will be revealed at the Mesa City Council meeting on Monday, when this agreement will be approved, giving Mesa exclusive negotiating rights while they finalize the financing. The public portion of the money is subject to a public vote, which is also expected to be approved.
I hope to have more details and possible photographs of the area in the next few days. It's no secret that I've been strongly in favor of the Cubs remaining in Arizona for spring training and laid out my case in this post last month and also in this exclusive interview with Mesa Mayor Scott Smith. Presuming it all comes together the way I understand it -- and I don't see any reason it won't -- the Cubs will be in Mesa, Arizona for spring training for many years to come.
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Excellent news
Fingers crossed!
"I'm a Cubs fan. I'm very, very patient." -- from a Shoe cartoon.
by No Southern Belle on Jan 21, 2010 4:11 PM CST reply actions
This is great news.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
That's an Edie Brickel/Carly Simon mouth right there.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Please stay in Mesa...
I hope it works out, nice quick flight for me to get down there. :)
I wonder if this will spur
some enterprising airline (Southwest?) to schedule some direct flights into Falcon Field airport from Chicago…at least during March.
Falcon Field
is mainly a training airport. Actually, I meant to say Williams Field (Phoenix-Mesa Gateway) is the airport that is planned as a second airport in the Phoenix area. Gateway is a few miles to the south of Falcon Field and will be adjacent to the Gaylord resort when it gets built.
Gateway Airport already has some commercial flights, right?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd bet they'd start up service to Chicago from there with the new complex so close.
Maybe to Midway.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They used to fly to Gary, Ind.
with reasonable rates.
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 21, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Allegiamt flies from Rockford to Mesa
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
Allegiant is Great!
They fly from Peoria too!
by westerncubbie on Jan 21, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions
My guess is...
… that with the new complex so close to Gateway Airport, they might arrange to fly from Midway to Gateway… at least during March.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Allegiant flies from Cedar Rapids to Mesa
Allegiant is indeed awesome and relatively cheap too. No frills but you can’t beat the approximately 3 hour direct, non-stop flights. The Mesa Airport is very simple to navigate. Basically in one door, grad your bags, and out the other door. Couldn’t be simpler.
Isn't Sky Harbor like 5 miles west of there?!
I mean, I understand the desire for convenience, but I think that SkyHarbor is closer to Longbow than Phoenix/Mesa Gateway.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No, it's not.
PHX (Sky Harbor) Airport is about 12 miles west of Ho Ho Kam Park. Longbow is EAST of Ho Ho Kam — thus farther away, about 20 miles.
Based on my understanding of where the new ST site will be, it’s about 15 miles from Gateway Airport.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm waiting for the new facility....
…before I break my Spring Training cherry.
Hope this is done soon.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
It'd be pretty stupid to move
But it’s also not like it would be the end of the world. They’d likely lose far more followers in AZ than they would gain in FLA.
Shameless self promotion: Check out my website!!!
http://www.itsnotabook.com
disagree
there are enough Cub fans all over that they would likely not gain or lose fans by moving.
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Nice
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Any news from Collier County?
Crickets
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Eric Hanna Stadium
has a nice ring to it…
by jesus christos on Jan 21, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions
ERICF'NHANNA Field
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
I like the idea below.
But let’s make it more baseballish: BCB Park.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Can we make is BCB Dome?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Why would you want a dome to play in Arizona?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We can rent it to the twins in April.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jan 21, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Also, the Minnesota Vikings
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 21, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
The Astros always seem to be looking for a place to play.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
see its a great idea
now the dome will pay for itself, and BCB can possibly even profit from it
i love it when a plan comes together.
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
the Vikings aren't moving from the HHH Metrodome
are they?
by LT on Jan 21, 2010 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
Wait
is it the Twins who are getting the new outdoor stadium? Maybe that’s it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 21, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
They are trying.
Exceedingly…
Seriously, they are pitching a new stadium.
I think Zygi Wilf ought to shell out some of his own money for this. We don’t need to be spending scarce state resources improving a billionaire’s business.
Let me tell you...
I recently started covering Minneapolis for my job, and holy crap the Metrodome is ugly as hell. At the same time, Target Field is absolutely beautiful (from the outside) and I’ll certainly add it quickly to my list of stadiums to visit. It’s a great little downtown area and the park fits in so well!
UM should try to lease them Sundays in their new
stadium. Great way for the U to make big money.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Let's all pitch in and call it
BCB Stadium.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson
Longbow
that would be near Falcon Field, Higley and McDowell Roads, just south of the Red Mountain (202) Freeway and about 7 miles to the east (almost due E) of Hohokam. The Boeing plant is in that area…as is Longbow Country Club, close to Rancho del Lago and not far from Red Mountain Ranch.
Mesa has been touting Falcon Field as a potential regional sub-airport. The surrounding area is mostly industrial, but there is a fair amount of open land for the planned “Wrigleyville” development…restaurants, hotels, retail, etc.
http://www.falconfieldarea.org/news09.html
Maybe in Doggie Stalker’s honor they will put a 7-11 store adjacent to the ball park.
It ain't over
till the people vote. The Phoenix area is in bad shape financially, with lots of dead businesses. The state is hurting as well. A vote for a big municipal debt is no slam dunk.
It's not municipal debt
it’s an additional “tourist” tax. It is very likely it will pass, just like the tax breaks for the large Gaylord Hotel development sailed to victory (84%) last March.
First of all, it puts no additional tax burden on the locals.
Secondly, Mesa has seen what has happened with the University of Phoenix Stadium and surrounding development in Glendale, after Mesa stupidly shot it down.
This type of investment is even more important during down economic times. The local economy is so tied in to tourism and hospitality that to not pursue opportunities in those areas would be beyond foolish.
by azjazzman on Jan 21, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
azjazzman is exactly right.
It’s a way to keep tourist business in Mesa that, if lost, would cost Mesa (and other areas in the Valley) millions. They can’t afford NOT to do it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly, Mesa doesnt exactly have a lot going for it other then the Cubs
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."
If you haven't...
… go back to the front page of this post, which now contains a link to an East Valley Tribune article with more details.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
More Details
The East Valley Tribune has posted a copy of the proposed, non-binding, MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) that the City of Mesa is submitting to the Cubs to keep their ST home in Mesa.
Some interesting details:
1. The proposed ballpark will be between 13,500 and 15,000 seats (which will be the largest in the Cactus League).
2. A 50,000 square foot clubhouse.
3. Four full sized practice fields, no more than 1/4 mile from the ballpark
4. The MOU mentions “suites” but does not list number or size
5. Cost: $84M
6. 25 year commitment from the Cubs
7. To be built in time for March 2013
8. Land for parking of up to 3,500 (Parking revenue to Cubs)
9. The MOU says the City will offer a choice of two stadium sites, but does not outline the location of the sites
Mesa City Manager Chris Brady says despite reports to the contrary, the Cubs have not signed off on this, nor have they committed that it is a “done deal”.
“The MOU would give Mesa exclusive negotiating rights while a more formal deal is worked out. Also, the legislature must approve a bill to direct tourism taxes to the new facility and Mesa voters would need to approve elements of the deal.
Brady acknowledged rumors that the team has already decided on Mesa or Naples, but he said the team hasn’t indicated a favorite or that Monday’s vote will automatically award the deal to Mesa.
"They haven’t said, ‘You’re it. Just do this.’" Brady said."
kaplan just confirmed above info
On KXNO in Des Moines
by cozmotaylor123 on Jan 21, 2010 6:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I hope it is called Naples Stadium
for the new stadium in Mesa
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
One other thing the Cubs get...
… naming rights for the new ballpark.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
"I've Got Ricketts" Field?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 21, 2010 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
Any guesses as to the name?
The Ricketts family dosen’t strike me as self promoters so they’ll probably adopt a name that’s indigenous to the area. I’m guessing one of the names below will stick. They’re common monikers in the East Valley..
1. Superstition Stadium or Park
2. Red Mountain Stadium or Park
3. San Tan Stadium or Park
The North side of the 202 would be more asthetic as it’s nestled at the base of some impressive red mountains. The South 202 locations would be more convienient for the Mesa Gateway Airport. The South locations would also be very close to a new Gaylord Hotel and Convention Center that’s scheduled to break ground soon.
Find whatever name pays the most
but insist on utilizing Harry Carey’s name for the field somehow. He did more for the cubs than most players, and spring training seems to fit most with his memory.
Harry did more for the Cubs than most players?
Um, no.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ummm...
I sort of see TC’s point about Harry doing a lot for the team. Harry’s broadcasts helped make the fanbase nationwide and the team the draw it is today.
Harry’s over the top personality and quirks helped fans, especially youth, become attached to a team from long distance. Fans of a team who frequently lost.
As for the name, not Harry. Find the businesses with operations in Phoenix and Chicago with the most to gain, contact all of them, and take the most $$$.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Then name the ST broadcast booth after him.
He didn’t do anything on the field.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
50,000 square foot clubhouse
is that bigger than the clubhouse at Wrigley? :P
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 21, 2010 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
From what I hear...
A hall closet at the Holiday Inn would be larger than the Wrigley Field club house…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
Is this ever good news.
I’m thinking a bar/eatery next door name Bleedcubbieblue would complete the deal. Al, hope you have the name copyrighted!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Maybe a new Pink Pony?
"I won't be like A-Rod" - Z, 3/17/09
by Ihatethecards on Jan 22, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
Ugh.
Florida would have been better….and I know you disagree with me Al, but that’s the beauty of the Internet — we can all be right here!
The Cubs belong in Mesa
there shouldn’t have been any debate
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Jan 21, 2010 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
The beauty of the internet
is that we can all be right (as long as Mesa is the correct answer).
However.. we can agree to disagree! As I work down in phoenix during spring training (just got reassigned this year) I cannot WAIT to start attending ST games!! Also, on a completely OT note, if there are posters here who are regulars at ST, I’d love to chat and get ideas and maybe buy you a drink (on my company of course!)
jumping the GUN a bit Mesa?
From my understanding Mesa has finally summited there “PROPOSAL” yesterday to the Cubs & nothing has been decided! Now that BOTH proposals are on the table, the Ricketts will decide Jan 31st?
NOTHING is posted on Cubs.com about this other than Mesa has finally put in their PROPOSAL ?
I’m the first to admitt when I’m wrong when facts are presented but is Mesa really claiming victory now that they have finally summited their late proposal? (They were given an extra week because of their history & they didn’t have any plans how there were going to pay for it last week) Yes I’m a Chicago Cub fan who believes the best ST facility is offered in Naples not Mesa.
You're still full of misinformation.
There’s a memorandum of understanding between the two parties that will be signed after the Mesa City Council approves it on Monday (and it will be approved).
What’s your game here? Are you part of the Naples group? What’s the deal? It’s going to be done in Mesa. Unless you have a financial interest in the Naples group, I’m not sure why you are continuing to post misinformation here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
misinformation? Your wrong
No I’m not apart of any Naples group. I have NO financial interest. I care about what is best for the Cubs to train for a WS. Without any emotional attachement to either & ONLY the Chicago Cubs, Naples seems to have the better plan.
Misinformation? My state is you should report both sides. Why your media bias? NOTE: NO OFFICAL WORD has been given by the Cubs and/or Ricketts. NOTHING has been signed by the Cubs. So what if a proposal has been finally DRAFTED by Mesa for the Cubs to sign. It hasn’t been SIGNED has it? Where on CUBS.com does it report Mesa is the winner & the Ricketts have signed? You seemed to have the misinformation. Chicago Tribune & ESPN might have reported it but I’ll wait for the Cubs to announce the offical word.
There aren't any "sides" here.
I posted what I know, and I have learned information beyond what’s on the Cubs website. Believe what you wish, but the Cubs will be signing a deal with Mesa within the next week.
Further, I believe that’s best for the team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
where is today's link on Cubs.com on Cubs/Rickets have SIGNED w/Mesa?
Misinformation is on your end. You have media bias for some reason, why?
ONLY the proposal has been summited. NOTHING has been SIGNED.
Report the facts, remove your bias please. Sorry for the lecture on journalism 101 ethics but hey, the fat lady hasn’t sung yet has she?
You're lecturing me on "ethics"?
I never said anything had been signed. Nor did I say a deal was done. Read the headline on this post again.
You are entitled to your opinion. In all the comments you have made on this issue, not once have you stated WHY you think Florida is a better option. Although I’d be interested in hearing that, it’s moot. This deal is going to be done.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
both proposals up for review.... BOTH, nothing is SIGNED
My point about your ethics & your misinformation is your replies make it seem like its a done “SIGNED” deal with Mesa. Correct me if (& maybe when) I’m wrong, but all that is happened is now the Ricketts have both proposals for their review, correct? It isn’t done, the fat lady hasn’t sung, nothing has been SIGNED so why report or lean your posts/replies/topics that way? Just seems… misleading & biased? Yes, most media outlets have jumped on this bandwagon once Mesa summited their late proposal but there has been NO OFFICAL WORD from the Cubs correct? The Gov of Florida has a press conference at 2:15 EST in Naples I think today where this will be addressed, more information on this fight, win or lost could be presented then.
As for all the reasons why Naples vs Mesa… wow… Thats a whole other post. But seriously doesn’t the city of Mesa remind you of “gasp” the south side of Chicago and White Sox land? Mesa to put it not very politely, is a dump, the Cubs should be honored one of the nicest communities in Florida is wooing them! I have seen so much misinformation about the bad local weather Naples, makes me wonder why so many people want to be blissfully ignorant?
Bottom line, I care about the Cubs winning a WS & believe if the Cubs pick Mesa, we will end up of 25+ more years of the same…. our Cubs being loverable losers.
Now you are just being silly
and this post not worthy of much consideration.
Mesa is a large city (10 times larger than Naples and in a metropolitan area of 4 million), with a lot of diversity. It has many nice areas and a few not so nice areas. The area where this ballpark would be built happens to be in a pretty nice area which in the coming years will become one of the premier resort destinations in the U.S.
That is fact…the rest of your post…especially the part where you blame Mesa for the lack of success by the Cubs, is just bizarre.
Oh, and BTW, the sources for most of the reports that the Cubs are likely to agree to the City of Mesa MOU are…sorry to burst your bubble….executives in the Cubs organization. Nobody else.
Read my post again.
At no time did I ever say the deal was signed. I have never made any secret of my preference for Mesa on this site, nor when I have discussed it with anyone in person. So do NOT throw “ethics” in my face.
Your reasons for preferring Florida, as azjazzman says below, are just ridiculous.
If you really think the choice of spring training site is the difference between winning and not winning a World Series… well, I obviously can’t change your mind, but you’re just plain wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
no preference for Mesa, then why no "It's not over yet"
BleedCubbieBlue.com has not reported that the Naples vs Mesa battle is not over. The main articles only point out that the Mesa deal has been summited & makes it seem like its over, why not the Gov of FL press conference pointing out that no official decision has been made? & the Ricketts have informed him of such? Isn’t that major news?
It just seems like a bias toward Mesa not to report both sides, no?
You're really a piece of work.
I have never hid my preference here. I reported facts and stated my opinion. You’ve posted nothing but misinformation and strawmen.
I’m done talking to you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
when asked to report both sides, you balk?
seriously & you call that not being bias? I dont care what your preference is. Just was asking why you think bleedcubbieblue.com seems to only report about Mesa?
The Gov of Florida has a live press conference, told by the new ownership of the Cubs that Naples still has shot even after the Mesa proposal has been summited and thats not front page news? really?
What if the Ricketts pick Naples in the end? What if? I’ll admit its beganing to seem more like a longshot but as a Cubs fan, you believe in such things…
I'm not "biased", however...
… I have repeatedly stated my preference and backed it up with facts that go beyond “Mesa’s a dump”, which appears to be your position.
The Mesa deal will be approved by their City Council on Monday, and as azjazzman, a Mesa resident, has repeatedly told you, the other things that must be approved will be.
Florida made an offer, but Mesa had a better one. I think you need to quit now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Where the hell is it written that Blogs are expected to be unbiased?
Al does a pretty good job of mixing and balancing his opinions with factual reporting, imho.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
I always thought
Al did a great job of mixing together all the disparate opinions of the members on this site.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
-Rogers Hornsby-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 22, 2010 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
Jack...
this is the part where you shut up.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 22, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
you seem to think
this is a newspaper.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 22, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
its not?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
did a little kid in a hat give it to you for a nickel?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 22, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
you mean Al doesn't
stand in the LF Bleachers screaming
“EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT, CUBS WILL WIN 75 GAMES MAX ACCORDING TO BLOU’S PROJECT-O-METER”
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
can you imagine Al
in one of those hats?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 23, 2010 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
First of all
it is totally inaccurate to say that Mesa is claiming victory. Jut the opposite, the quotes from the City Manager and other Mesa City officials have been very cautious on that point, saying that nothing has been settled yet.
The reports that the Cubs are likely going to sign this deal come from the media. And, most of those reports are sourced within the Cubs organization. In fact, Jude La Cava, a sports reporter with Fox in Phoenix last night reported that he spoke with a highly placed Cubs executive who confirmed that once the Cubs get the MOU that it will likely be signed, and one of the terms of the MOU is that the Cubs negotiate only with Mesa from that point forward. Then, it is ball game over, for all intents and purposes.
It is clearly obvious that the MOU was drawn up with heavy input from the Cubs organization. There are several unique and unusual clauses that are indicative of the Cubs desire to have a ST “destination” in the future. It is only logical to assume that Mesa is giving the Cubs exactly what they want in this MOU, including timelines, etc.
I don’t know (of care) what your biases are, but you obviously don’t know what you are talking about…you are just spouting. The plan for the ST complex to be paid for has been out there for awhile now. There is nothing new in this MOU in that regard.
The Naples plan, ever there really is one, is all a secret, because they are relying on private financing to get it all done and are not required to disclose it publicly. That is a much shakier proposition, because as we all know, private investment money is pretty dicey right now and since there is nothing signed, it can disappear in a hurry.
The Mesa proposal is a lot better bet, as approval from the Legislature is all but assured, and approval in the subsequent public vote is highly likely, also.
by azjazzman on Jan 22, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for providing the facts...
… from a source on thr ground (I know azjazzman personally; he lives in Mesa year-round).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
live streaming video of FL Gov. Charlie Crist's press conference regarding ST in Naples
The Naples Daily News and naplesnews.com will have live streaming video of Gov. Charlie Crist’s press conference regarding spring training at 2:15 p.m. today at Cambier Park in Naples.
I just watched it
Gov. Christ really didn’t have much to say, other than the Cubs told him no decision has been made yet and that Florida would love to have the Cubs.
No news here.
Dessert Mesa Dump or Beautiful Naples Beach?
Yes there was news, simply news that the Mesa announcement of the Cubs staying for ST by the media outlets was at least premature and flat out wrong. The fact of the matter is most media outlets (Chicago Tribune, ESPN, etc) reported Mesa deal was basically a done deal. That in fact was wrong. Why did reporters do that?
quotes from the Naples press conference:
“Chicago Tribune reported wrong.”
“No decision has been made (by the Cubs/Ricketts)”
“We (Naples) are in the running”
Of course the MOU from Mesa was drafted with heavy Cubs input. I would hope so! & to say the Naples plan is hidden is just ignorant. So what if it’s private money? The Cubs/Ricketts will have full access to this non-public plan so why would that matter? They are the owners & will make the final decision for the Cubs.
Sorry I dont know anyone of you personally but I have no, none, zip, nada economic or emotional ties to Mesa and/or Naples. Are you angry with me because I fight against your clouded vision? Clearly you have ties to Mesa, I look at this what is best for the Cubs!?
I dont blame Mesa for the past but IMHO a better future for the Cubs ST is in Naples. It is time for change. Cubs Naples Spring Training!
Guess your reading skills are not up to par
1) Mesa didn’t announce anything of the kind. All they did was release a copy of the MOU (which is required by law).
2) The media outlets that have reported that it was basically a done deal had Cubs executives as sources
3) The Mesa MOU has not been approved by the City Council yet, so the Cubs don’t have it, therefore there is nothing for them to decide on yet
4) The Mesa proposal, including financing, is now public record. The Naples proposal, including financing, is not. That is simply a statement of fact.
5) I have no particular axe to grind here. Yes, I’d like to see the Cubs stay in Mesa, but despite what others have said, the Cactus League will thrive with or without the Cubs. The addition of the Dodgers last year was huge, and they were very nearly as big a draw as the Cubs in 2009.
I covered points 1-4 in an earlier post, if you had bothered to read it. Point #5 is just FYI.
I’m not angry with you. Don’t even know you. I am just amazed at how much misinformation can be crammed into one post. You clearly do not know what you are talking about.
media outlets wrong
Never said Mesa announced it, Chicago Tribune & ESPN did… both were wrong. Why were reporters so quick to jump the gun? Maybe they truely have a hidden source/exec deep the Cubs org but the final say by the owners hasn’t been given. With 50 some years in AZ of course Cubs staff & (Tribune for that matter) has many ties to AZ so I would expect them to lean that way. The Ricketts should give Mesa an edge because loyalty is an admirable quality. Although the the Dodgers were not loyal after what 70 some years? That was a sad day for Florida but in the end, that made sense for the ballclub to move.
It doesnt matter whats public or not both proposals are fully available to the Ricketts, the only group that matters. Talking about them is just kinda stupid & sortof pointless then.
I dont know what I’m talking about? I back much of what I write with quotes with links from my sources when it matters. Dont just insult me or belittle what I say to make your point.
In the end, whatever the outcome, bravo for the Ricketts playing two states against each other to get the best deal possible for our Cubs.
Well you are getting off track here
but I’ll just point out that you DID say that Mesa announced it, and you were wrong. It is yet to be seen whether the Tribune, ESPN, Fox, Arizona Republic, East Valley Tribune, etc are wrong. That will only be evident when a decision is announced.
The Dodgers analogy doesn’t work because Vero Beach would not do anything for the Dodgers. The ballpark the Dodgers played in at Dodgertown didn’t even have dugouts! The Dodgers would have loved to stay in Florida, but Vero Beach would not co-operate, and you certainly cannot say that about Mesa.
BTW, the Naples newspaper concurs that there was “little news” in Crist’s press conference, and is also reported that Craig Bouchard, the point man in Florida’s bid is saying that Mesa clearly is ahead of Naples in the pursuit of the Cubs.
Earlier, the Naples paper reported that columnist David Moulton, who initiated the push for the Cubs to move to Naples said he wouldn’t change anything “except the Cubs decision”.
dont read the Mesa news...
sorry but I only typically have read the Chicago Tribune & watch ESPN in the morning… lately I’ve resorted to digging into the Mesa & Naples news only to find out both sides. I feel like I’m flipping between Fox & CNN for Christ, I mean Crist sake!
I really know little about the Dodger battle other than they moved. Only brought them up because someone else did & 50-70 year loyality.
Where did you see that quote from David Moulton? Do you have a link? I would like to read the article.
defeated
wow…
David Moulton seems to have recieved the decision from the Cubs yesterday, why was Gov Crist speech different?
this article has me confused… besides a few nails in the coffin for Naples
Well, he clearly
believes the media reports that you dismiss.
Crist said that Ricketts told him not to believe everything he hears and that no decision has been made.
Since the MOU has not been approved by Mesa yet, I don’t find these two things in conflict.
Incidentally...
… David Moulton DOES have a financial interest in the Naples bid, he’s not just a newspaper columnist. (Specifically, he says so here.)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
financial interest... sure but emotional interest is more trouble
the fact that David Moulton seems defeated troubles me that yes this battle seems over but I’ll wait for the offical word from the Ricketts.
Those with emotional interest trouble me greater than financial interest…. moving 50+ years with Mesa would pull at many lifelong Cubs fan hearts… hence the bias in the media, fan sites and not looking at what might be best for the team in the long run
Seems to me
that getting a brand new, state of the art facility (16 batting tunnels!), with all the latest training and medical/rehab equipment, the largest ST ballpark in baseball, the ability to control development in the immediately adjacent land – Wrigleyville – hotels, restaurants, tourist related businesses, etc, is all to the good for the Cubs, whether it is in Mesa or Naples.
The Cubs win in this no matter what they decide to do. It sounds to me that in about 5 years, the Cubs will have the Disney World of Spring Training facilities, whether it is in Florida or Arizona.
And, part of the MOU states...
… that the Cubs will help Mesa find another tenant for Hohokam Park. My guess is they might go after the A’s. That’d be another big win for Mesa, having two teams train in the city limits.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Brewers are playing in a not-so-modern facilty too, aren't they?
Maybe that’s why Bud was sticking his nose in the Cubs business. He might be greasing the skids for the Brewers to move to Hohokam.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Maryvale Park is about the same vintage as Hohokam
and besides, if the Brewers want to move into Hohokam, they could do so no matter where the Cubs go.
I suspect Bud’s interest in the matter has more to do with his friendship with Reinsdorf.
The Maryvale complex...
… though 10 or so years old, is still in good shape, and most importantly for the Brewers, has everything in one place, including large practice fields.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But
that would pit Mesa against City of Phoenix, and Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon has already gone on record that Phoenix will not let the A’s leave without a fight, and there is already talk of a new facility for the A’s if it comes to that.
Phoenix being the larger entity, Mesa would tread very lightly on this. It would be interesting to ask Mayor Scott Smith about this, if you should have an opportunity to speak with him again.
I may do that.
Who do you think Mesa would go after? Another Florida team?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't know
the preference would certainly be to bring another team in from Florida, as opposed to cannibalizing a team from within the Cactus League. Florida is already making moves to make this more difficult. But, some of the comments that have been made about the future of Hohokam lead me to believe that Mesa has someone in mind already.
I think we're pretty much at - or close to - a steady state...
…for spring training sites between AZ and FLA.
In Florida, Baltimore seems to have found a home in Sarasota, though there’s still a few hoops to jump through and could still fall apart. Regardless, I don’t see an East coast team training in Arizona. Same applies to Marlins, Nationals, and Mets.
Realistically, I think Houston or St. Louis would be the only possible choices, probably in that order.
Looking at Arizona – most of the teams have or are getting new complexes so that rules them out. And assuming the Cubs do stay in Mesa, then of the remaining teams (A’s, Angels, Brewers, Giants, Mariners, Padres), only Milwaukee seems “poachable”. The others – again, just can’t imagine a West coast team training in Florida. The Dodgers were the exception to that rule but that was just tradition carried over from the Brooklyn days.
It will be real interesting to see:
i) who moves into Hohokam, and
ii) if the Naples group goes after someone else (Baltimore, Milwaukee, etc.)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I agree with this 100%
except that the Naples group has already said it is the Cubs or nothing. This might be construed as posturing but I don’t think so. The “partners” they have on this deal are ones that have ties to the Chicago area, and it is unlikely they would have the same interest in some other team coming to Naples.
It would also be easier...
… for both states if there were one more team in Arizona — right now it’s 15/15, so that means more split squads and off days in both states.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
baseball couold expand by 2 teams
that would solve it, right?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Then they'd wind up with 18 in Arizona and 14 in Florida.
:-)
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
LOL
well played
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
I'll echo the Vero Beach sentiment towards the Dodgers
Many of the locals were fed up with the Dodger organization and were glad to see them go. It seems that some viewed the Dodgers’ requests for facilities upgrades as a kind of extortion and resented and rebuffed all negotiating efforts.
Interestingly enough, a couple years without baseball seems to have changed their attitudes a bit. They have been trying to lure other teams that were looking for new homes recently like Orioles, Reds, Rays but to no avail.
Similar to the Punta Gorda/Port Charlotte folks. They were more than glad to see the Rangers leave several years ago, figuring it wasn’t worth the money to upgrade facilities. But a few years of no MLB changed the thinking of local politicians, and they then worked a deal to get the Rays. Not sure, but I think they were able to leverage some of that hurricane relief money from state/fed to aid in the building of the new complex.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I've posted this before
This whole spring training deal has exploded in the past 15 years. Originally, it was an expense for teams. Then, they were happy if they could break even. Now, it is a revenue stream. The ante has been upped again and again in terms of training facilities and the tourist bump aspect puts the teams in a position to demand the latest and greatest facilities and for the teams that draw the most, it is a “keeping up with the Jones” situation.
Arizona was a little more nimble and able to react to the changing economics/demands a little better than Florida. It took Florida losing some teams to get their attention, but now they recognize that investment is necessary to continue to milk the Spring Training money cow.
You still haven't posted a single reason why the Cubs should move...
… other than a wrongheaded idea that Mesa is a “dump”, which is decidedly incorrect.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
# of trailor parks near each proposal ballpark?
agreed … a fight over the pros/cons of both would be interesting battle here. Because honestly whatever place is picked, this isn’t a done deal. The other group is asked by the Ricketts to sit & wait until the final agreement is signed. Sounds like 3-5 months of this to be completely hashed out right?
Maybe there is some study of # of trailor parks in a certain geo range around each location? haha… that would be funny right? We need some humor here
Technically, you are correct
about the impending decision not being the last word.
To wit, the MOU outlines several mileposts and if any of them are missed, either party can terminate the agreement.
But, I would point out two things: The Cubs want a new facility as soon as possible (which is 2013) and that is why there is time pressure to get the ball rolling now.
The relationship between Mesa and the Cubs over the years has been one of open communication and honoring commitments. There is no reason to assume that it will be any different moving forward, and the MOU has realistic and achievable timelines that apparently are satisfactory to the Cubs.
It's really not funny.
In fact, your position does bring up a point: it would be far more expensive for Cubs employees, many of whom spend two months in Arizona during spring training, to find accomodations or buy condos or homes in Naples than in the Mesa area.
How would that benefit the organization?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
affordable housing
I’m sure affordable housing at each location will be addressed. Nobody should live in trailor parks, period.
We are talking Naples not Key West here.
I object to your description of Mesa as a "trailer park".
Mesa is a large city — population almost 500,000, the 36th largest city in the US. In a city that large, there may be a few trailer parks. However, there are also luxury residences and hotels, and as azjazzman pointed out, the land on which the Cubs’ new ST complex WILL be built is going to be one of the best resort/vacation destinations in the US over the next decade.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
never said "Mesa" was a trailer park
I only was going to find a study detailing out the trailer parks of both communities.
I did say Mesa was currently a dump. I’m not going to argue with you that the NEW ST complex wherever its located be one of the best resort/vcation desitionations. Just wish it was at the beach.
Again, Mesa is not a "dump".
If you’d ever been there, you’d know that to be fact.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Man, how old are you, anyway?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I did find it interesting, however
That Gov. Christ and all the Collier Co. officials were wearing KERRY WOOD Cubs jerseys. Guess they must have gotten a deal on them.
My vision is just fine, thank you
Gov. Christ, the Collier County guy that introduced him and at least one other guy that walked in front of the camera had what were clearly newly purchased #34 Kerry Wood Cubs pinstripe jerseys on. I would bet the farm they set an assistant out to get them Cubs jerseys for the press conference and the assistant came back with Wood jerseys and a story about what a bargain they had gotten.
Looky here. Half price! http://tinyurl.com/yduryyl
#34? really?
Seriously i did not see this but if it is true, if Gov Christ actually wore #34, forget about the staffers, Florida & Naples do NOT deserve the Cubs. I’m still looking for pictures of the press conference. Whomever did that should be fired if this is true.
so,
the Cubs should move to Naples, because it will help them win a WS, but if Crist (no h) and his staffers wore Kerry Wood jerseys, they don’t deserve the Cubs and the Cubs shouldn’t move?
I smell sock.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 22, 2010 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
Christ, Crist ... whatever the hell his name is...
really dont care but honestly little details like that piss me off… pet peve
seriously #34? wow… really? I would fire that staffer if I were the Governator… oops wrong state
Christ, Crist … whatever the hell his name is… really dont care but honestly little details like that piss me off
Now that, sir, is inspired. I salute you.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 22, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
I have some pet peeves
Spelling, grammar, punctuation. You should look into it.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Well, if there are any photos
they would be of him standing at the podium. You could see the #34 Kerry Wood on the back when he walked up to the podium.
It is just a funny observation, nothing more. I give them credit for trying to seem like Cubs supporters, even if the execution left a little to be desired. The jerseys looked good, in any event.
I hope the Mesa officials follow suit when they hold the press conference announcing that the Cubs have signed the MOU.
no #34 ...
watch this video, gotta love the story, but you get a shot of Gov Crist back of the jersey. Nothing on it! no #34, nope… nothing
That video only showed a portion of the jersey...
… it wasn’t clear from that VERY brief shot whether there was a number on it or not. The #34 was clearly visible in the news conference video.
I did like the interview with the fan who said he “Bleeds Cubbie Blue”, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Kerry Wood jerseys
Good lord. Sometimes a man’s work is all for naught….this will be all over soon enough, and we can move along.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Jan 22, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Al, azjazzman, or anyone else in the know...
Pu aside the actual baseball facilities for a moment, because in theory, whatever can be drawn up as a desired plan for a baseball complex (stadium, practice fields, clubhouses, etc.) surely could be built in either location (Mesa or Naples).
At this point, I’m more curious about the Cubs’ involvement with the “Wrigleyville” part of the deal. I’m assuming this means restaurants, bars, a hotel or two and other tourist attraction type development. I skimmed through MOU and found no specific mention of such development so I’m assuming this is a separate negotiation/planning effort? Are the Cubs even involved in this part of the whole deal or is that left to private enterprise?
This is where I thought Naples might have had an edge in terms of revenue potential to the Cubs, assuming they would have a piece of the Wrigleyville development effort. My impression is that Naples has a bit more panache than Mesa when it comes to being a tourist destination and something like a Wrigleyville World (for lack of a better term) could be a real gold mine.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
First of all
You need to read the MOU more carefully. It very specifically spells out that the Cubs are to purchase the land (100+ acres) and then sell the ballpark/practice field plot back to the City of Mesa. This means the Cubs (or their assignee) will control all the land surrounding the ball park. This is absolutely the lynchpin of the whole agreement and the key to the whole “Wrigleyville West” concept.
I am not as familiar with the Naples proposal and there is no public document to reference, but my understanding was that there was a Chicago area developer that was going to work with the Cubs on the surrounding “Wrigleyville South” development.
If that is correct, then the Mesa proposal gives the Cubs more control, as they will actually own the land and can do with it what they please.
by azjazzman on Jan 22, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Found the lease-back part of the MOU (Section 6.1) - where is the part about the Cubs getting the land to begin with?
It’s kinda confusing, but assuming like you said, the Cub buy all the land to begin with, then Section 6.1 says the Cubs will give the stadium site (and public right-of-way) back to Mesa at no cost or expense to Mesa.
Then Mesa will turn around and lease the stadium site back to the Cubs for the duration of the agreement.
Then, after 30 years, Cubs have the option to buy the stadium site from Mesa for $1.
Whew…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Section 7
The language is a little obtuse, but basically it says that the Cubs have until Dec. 31, 2012 to find a suitable piece of land, buy it, authorize construction, blah, blah, blah. It doesn’t say so, but clearly Mesa will be offering appropriate parcels of land, one of which is owned by the Longbow developers, another owned by a Scottsdale developer.
Cubs officials saw these parcels on an aerial tour back in November.
If, for some reason, the Cubs cannot decide on a parcel, or cannot come to terms with the land owners by that date, then the city will offer them a choice of two parcels that the city owns.
If, by January 31, 2013, the Cubs STILL haven’t decided on a piece of land, then they are required to hold Spring Training at Hohokam through 2014.
This is all lawyerese to protect both parties in case there are major snags with the Cubs finding, choosing and acquiring a piece of land…something that I am sure neither Mesa or the Cubs anticipate will be an issue.
Any sense for if the Cubs will get a sweetheart deal on the land purchase?
Has the residential real estate depression in the Phoenix area carried over into commercial property as well? If so, then I imagine Cubs would get a good deal regardless.
If not, would city officials work with the developers to make sure Cubs get a good deal? Or is the whole arrangement already tilted so much in the Cubs favor so they can afford to pay market value on the land purchase and still come out way ahead?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If the Cubs were to solicit investors in this land deal
I would sign up in a heartbeat. Yes, commercial property in Phoenix took a tremendous hit, and I’m certain the parcels of land offered to the Cubs will be more than priced right.
But, here’s the deal: This area of Mesa, well before the economy tanked, was a high growth area. Boeing, MD Helicopters and several other large companies built or expanded facilities at Falcon Field. Longbow, Red Mountain Ranch and other upscale, humongous planned community type developments were well under way.
Then, Gaylord properties announced their plans for a huge mega resort (3,000 rooms), conference center development in East Mesa. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/124749
Gaylord is buying the land from DMB Associates, who BTW, happen to be the owners of one of the parcels the Cubs looked at. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/146398
Well, the economy tanked and Gaylord has delayed construction. This becomes a case of critical mass. This area is set to explode as soon as the economy strengthens. Right now, if the Cubs move quickly, they can get in on something that will prove to be exciting…and at the same time they will provide some impetus to a growth process that is already well under way…it is just stalled a bit with money being so tight.
So, to answer your question (and I assume your intent), yes, yes yes. The Cubs will get a good, sweetheart deal, with the likelihood of an immediate and profitable return on their investment.
My prediction is that 5-7 years from now, the transformation of this part of Mesa will be mind boggling and that the Cubs will be right in the middle of a resort/tourist destination without equal in the southwest, outside of Las Vegas.
You are right
the Naples, FL area is more affluent than Mesa, and as of right now, is a more attractive tourist destination (especially if you factor in Marco Island). That changes, however, if you factor in Gaylord…if and when that gets built in the Phoenix-Mesa Gateway airport area. It would immediately become the largest (by far) resort in Arizona and the accompanying development is massive.
by azjazzman on Jan 22, 2010 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
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