Andre Dawson entering the HOF as a member of the Expos
by DC Cubbie on Jan 27, 2010 12:50 AM CST
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PrintPer the Tribune, sounds like the Hall of Fame has made up their mind and that the Hawk will be wearing an Expos cap. I personally think its strange they don't just let the player decide what cap he is wearing when he enters. This isn't like Wade Boggs wanting to go as a Devil Ray. Andre was an MVP and had many productive years in Chicago and if he wants to go in as a Cub it seems to me he should be allowed to do just that. I hope all the Cub fans still support him though and show up at Cooperstown this summer to give him all the accolades he deserves. I'm sure the 3 Expos fans still in existence will also show up.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/andre-dawson-to-enter-hall-of-fame-as-an-expo.html
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Looks like we won't be retiring the #8
I’m still glad he’s in the Hall of Fame.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Has someone from the organization confirmed the rumor we'd only retire the number if he went as a Cub?
This seems petty to me. Why punish Andre for the decision made by the Hall committee?
That was the official press release
Can’t find a link
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I never heard there was anything official
Just this story.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/01/source-cubs-would-retire-dawsons-number.html
Personally, I’m thinking/hoping that they were only saying that as an attempt to sway the committee’s decision. Not retiring his number because of the logo on his cap in the Hall would make the organization look fairly childish.
Not to mention
What if Maddux goes as a Brave? We already retired his number. Are we going to take his name off the pole if he goes in as a Brave? Petty indeed if we don’t retire Dawson’s number simply because he goes in as an Expos player!
You will never move forward by looking back....
by By Santo's Grace on Jan 27, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
Right
I think he was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Cubs holding his number retirement hostage based on the hat.
Mind you, I have faith that they will retire his number. Just that they were trying to push the Cubs hat with that rumor.
Agreed...
It’s pretty cut and dry that Maddux is going in as a Brave, was just throwing it out there…
You will never move forward by looking back....
by By Santo's Grace on Jan 27, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
i think it was not a hostage thing
but Dawson may have asked the Cubs to help lobby the HOF to let him go in as a Cub, and was using the number retirement as just that. It was a favor to Hawk
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
I actuallly laughed
When some Braves fan posted on the Atlanta Journal Constitution web site how upset Braves fans would be if he went in as a Cub. Calm down fella. You have nothing to worry about. We got his brain, you get his HOF cap.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 27, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Easily, the better end of the bargain.
His mind has potential to improve this teams future and his cap goes in the trophy case of a mostly empty stadium.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I disagree that we got the better end of the bargain
If Maddux was going in to the hall of fame as a Cub, that would mean that he played his best years with the Cubs rather than the Braves. It is yet to be seen how well he is going to do in the front office, but we all know how he did as a player.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
We got the better end of the bargain NOW!
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Good grief. I wasn't aware that was an option today.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Why would the Cubs retire Dawson's number?
It makes very little sense.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Not too surprising
Figured he’d go in as an Expo. While I’d like to have seen him go in as a Cub, I think he probably should go in an Expo too. Yes he had the MVP year here, but he did win the ROY and finish 2nd twice in MVP voting in Montreal. Plus he stole most of his bases in Montreal, and without the SBs I don’t know if he gets in the Hall. He had many productive years as a Cub, but he had more as an Expo and that probably should be represented. But just because he’s going in as an Expo doesn’t mean you can’t still think of him as a Cub. I know whenever I think of the Hawk, he’s wearing a Cub hat. I can’t imagine any Cub fan worth his (or her) salt wouldn’t support the Hawk just because he’s wearing a different hat in the Hall of Fame!
I thought it was 50-50
He was a better player in Montreal but he was a lot more famous in Chicago.
I would be a bigger deal if we didn’t already have a ton of players with Cub caps in Cooperstown. The Expos only had Gary Carter and it might be a while before Tim Raines joins them. And we don’t know yet what’s going to happen to Vlad Guerrero.
You just can’t let players pick their caps. Even if you don’t get the Wade Boggs situation, you still have situations like Nolan Ryan going in as a Ranger, which was a travesty too. (Angels or Astros would have been fine. Texas wasn’t.) That’s why they stopped letting players choose. The HOF is a museum, and they do have some responsibility to represent the past accurately.
True enough, although...
… it can be argued that Dawson had greater “fame” as a Cub. I hope Andre at least acknowledges his Cubs history in his speech.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Honestly, I don't think there's any question
that if both Jim Rice (Red Sox) and Andre Dawson (Cubs) didn’t play for high profile teams, neither would be in the HOF.
They simply have a fan base and media contingent to advocate for their induction. That means a great deal to push forward a nomination as it takes years to advance the cause.
There are many players that are borderline HOFers that get marginal support from HOF voters simply because they don’t have the advocacy behind them.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 27, 2010 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
Right.
This is the reason Bert Blyleven isn’t in. Had he put up those numbers as a Dodger or Yankee, he’d have been inducted long ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And Don Sutton
is a perfect example of that.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Sutton and Blyleven
I don’t know if Blyleven would have won 324 games had he pitched for Sutton’s teams or not. Sutton had the good fortune of pitching for good Dodgers, Brewers, and Angels teams. The Dodgers and Angels are both big market teams. Blyleven got stuck with some awful Indians clubs. I still can’t believe Blyleven went 19-7 for a 75-87 Cleveland team in 1984. I was glad that Bert was able to have an outstanding 1989 season for the Angels in a big market environment. Generally speaking, Blyleven was stuck with small market teams.
The funny thing is Blyleven pitched for two world championship teams (1979 Pirates and 1987 Twins). Sutton never pitched for a team that won the World Series.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Blyleven has been the poster child for people who should be in but aren't
He’s always the biggest name on a national level of guys who have been through countless votes and haven’t made it. He gets a ton of support and media time. Yet he’s still not in.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
He'll be in next year.
No one has ever gotten as close as Blyleven and not gotten in the next year. The wait will be over for him in 2011, and then we can all move on to pushing for Tim Raines, I guess.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
agreed
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Bruce Sutter and Reggie Jackson
He went into the Hall as a Cardinal, but he acknowledged the great seasons he had in Chicago. He talked about learning how to throw the split-fingered fastball in the Cubs organization in his induction speech. Sutter may or may not have been joking that the Cubs didn’t call him to tell him he was traded to the Cardinals in that HoF closers edition of Studio 42 with Bob Costas.
If Reggie Jackson were going into the Hall today, I believe he would have an A’s cap on his plaque. There’s no question that Reggie was more famous with the Yankees, but he was a better player with Oakland. Jackson contributed greatly to three world championship teams with the A’s. He didn’t play in the 1972 World Series, but he was a big part of why the Moustache Gang got there. Reggie only played with two world championship teams in New York.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I was thinking of that
Reggie’s situation is very similar to Andre’s—he was better and played longer for the smaller market team and was more famous with the big market team. I agree with you that he’d probably go in as an A today. The one difference is that while Dawson was more famous with the Cubs, Jackson was really famous as a Yankee, like in Tiger Woods or Derek Jeter famous.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Then you have the other side of the coin....
as far as the Yankees are concerned. How about Dave Winfield going in as a San Diego Padre because he still hasn’t made up with George Steinbrenner? Winfield obviously had, by far, his best years as a Yankee (in fact, he was a Yankee most of his career) but due to the fact that he underperformed in one World Series (1981) after having an MVP-caliber regular season, his distinguished club owner tagged him with the nickname “Mr. May”. He stuck it to Big Stein in the 1992 WS, however, as IIRC, he got the game-winning hit in extra innings to give Toronto the championship.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Winfield
probably should have gone in as a Yankee. The problem was how awkward it would have been considering Steinbrenner was “banned for life” from the game for his shenanigans surrounding Winfield. It would have raised issues about Winfield that would have distracted from his playing accomplishments, and the Hall didn’t want to do that.
Putting Dawson in as an Expo, while not my first choice, doesn’t distract from Dawson the player. In fact, it emphasizes that. I’m disappointed but not upset.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure...
…his speech will be “Cub’s heavy”, especially considering he wanted to go in as a Cub.
Being objective, I can’t really argue with the HOF picking the Expos, as he played there a long time and had some good years.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The real problem was when they were doing it for petty reasons
Nolan Ryan wanted to go in representing his home state and would have picked an Astros hat had the contract dispute not happened. He finished his career with the Rangers and that was his reason. Reggie Jackson’s reasons were much more petty because the Athletics fired him as a coach a couple of years before he was inducted. The Athletics didn’t even retire his number until 2004.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
"I'm sure the 3 Expos fans still in existence will also show up."
That’s why Cubs fans are the best in the world. They don’t care what he’s going in as, Cooperstown will still be packed with Cubbie blue.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees when we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Jan 27, 2010 6:14 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
It won't make me ill
since most of his best years were as a Brave, but it would be nice if we could burn a Himes effigy in a nearby space before the ceremony.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 27, 2010 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
At least we'll get to embarrass Braves fans again....
by taking the show away from them, just like we do when the Cubs play at Turner Field.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
The will turn out in droves for Maddux
and Glavine will almost surely be inducted at the same time. Now BE NICE. It was not their fault the Cubs made the biggest mistake in baseball since the Red Sox sold Ruth.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 27, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Which is why I'm so surprised the HOF chose the Expos
I think he was loved and appreciated more by the Cubs fans than Expos fans. I just don’t get why you would vote in a guy who wanted to go in as a Cub, had fame here, and was loved more here. Doesn’t make sense to me
Good point though, and rec’d
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
His better seasons were in Montreal
Not his best one, but his body of work was better with the Expos.
I have no problem with this. He’s in, and that’s what counts.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
I'm of the mind you don't punish everyone for the sins of a few (Boggs, others).
I say let the player choose, with the HOF being the final check and balance. If they don’t agree, then they sit down and discuss the player’s first choice like adults. Then if they still cannot reach agreement, then the HOF exercises it’s final choice option.
Maybe that’s the way it works now, but it doesn’t seem like it.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Did Dawson have a HOF clause in his Marlins contract?
This is not meant to tarnish his name. But, I have seen off hand mention of such a comment in a number of sources in recent weeks and I am wondering if anyone knows for sure.
Phil Rogers:
Dawson included a cap clause in the contract he signed to go to the Marlins in 1995, but the Hall responsibly stepped in to stop players (including Wade Boggs and Jose Canseco) from auctioning their historical ties.
Again, for added emphasis, Dawson was a childhood hero of mine. This in no way shape or form changes my feelings about him.
Eamus Ursuli!
"I'm sure the 3 Expos fans still in existence will also show up."
Yeah, and during The Hawk’s acceptance speech, one of them will randomly blow that annoying horn that you used to hear at all Expos games. Why acknowledge and celebrate a dead franchise? Carter is already in as an Expo. That should have been enough. Those Expo hats look like they needed a little propeller on top to complete the clown outfit.
Cub fans will still show up, for sure, but Cooperstown could have expected a waaaay bigger turnout if he was going in as a Cub, IMO.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 27, 2010 6:50 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I doubt that
Cooperstown could have expected a waaaay bigger turnout if he was going in as a Cub
If you were planning a trip to see one of your favorite players inducted, do you mean to say you would cancel the trip because of a logo on the plaque?
That doesn’t seem to make much sense . . . anyone who would change their minds because of that isn’t really honoring the player in the first place.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 6:59 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Doggie Stalker will be there for Maddux if he was wearing a Cardinals cap
You support your favorite players, no matter what. It’s irrational, but that’s baseball for you
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I would be there
but I would be really confused.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 27, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
I'm confused
You’re saying it’s irrational to support your favorite players? So Cubs fans shouldn’t support Dawson because of the plaque?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
I believe what he's saying is....
Even if your favorite player goes to your most hated rival, you can still hate the team but you’ll always love the player.
Thank you
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 27, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Ah
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
I'd start hating the player.
Maybe I’ve got too much hate to go round…
"Keep pushin till it's understood,
And these badlands start treating us good."
That seems a bit harsh
Especially if the player left via trade
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 28, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
Hate the trader, not the player...
Growing up, I was a huge Browns fan and Paul Warfield was my favorite player. Then the Browns traded him to the Dolphins for a mere draft pick. Well, I didn’t even stick around to see who the draft pick turned out to be (it was Mike Phipps – big deal…). Screw the Browns*, I became instant Dolphins fan. Of course, it didn’t hurt that Don Shula and Larry Csonka were a couple of Ohio boys as well…
*we patched up our differences several years later.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Does that mean you're a Ravens fan now?
we patched up our differences several years later.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 28, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
Hate the owner, not the team...
As you might imagine, most of what I have to say on this subject is unprintable. Suffice to say, Art Modell has not stepped one foot back into Cleveland to this day, being in fear for his personal safety. And that is about the only thing I agree with him on.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
maybe he can sell the Ravens and but the Browns
thoughts?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Yeah, he is persona non grata in Cleveland.
And when he wanted to move the team to Baltimore, the cities that were opposed to it were Cleveland and Pittsburgh.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 30, 2010 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, only by free agency.
See where you are coming from.
"Keep pushin till it's understood,
And these badlands start treating us good."
Ever heard of Brett Favre?
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 30, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
Why acknowledge and celebrate a dead franchise?
So years from now people remember there was a team called the Expos?
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jan 27, 2010 7:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
and I’m disappointed…I can’t help it :(
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 27, 2010 7:51 AM CST up reply actions
so we should just wipe out all records of that franchise?
The Expos were for the most part a bad franchise, but they put out a hell of a lot of good players, I think its silly to pretend they didn’t exist.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Nationals should acknowledge the Expos history
It’s the same franchise.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They should, they don't
so others shouldn’t?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
#10 Not Retired By Nationals
No. 10 was retired for both Rusty Staub and Andre Dawson by the Expos, but #10 is not retired by the Nationals.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
It should be....If for some reason the Cubs moved and changed their name, would it mean that Sandberg and the rest didn't matter?
Can’t see that happening. The Expos were a sorry franchise and MLB and Selig were idiots for propping them up.
MLB and Selig helped destroy the Expos
as did Jeff Loria and the 1994 strike.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
The Nationals "unretired" all the Expos retired numbers
In 2005, I think, there was a banner-hoisting ceremony at a Canadiens game to honor the Expos’ retired numbers. Dawson and Carter were there.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
Go Canadiens!
They’ve got Youppi too. At least someone is taking the effort to remember the Expos.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
In the Expos' later years
I think Youppi was better known than most of the players.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Because the Hall of Fame is a museum
and they want to accurately represent the past.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
And what would that say about Cubs fans?
They would not go because the hat on the plague isn’t a Cubs hat? That argument doesn’t wash.
Dead franchise or not, the Expos were the right team. More than any other sport, baseball celebrates its history. Overall his best years were in Montreal.
And they'll sing
“Valderee, Valdera, Valderi, Valder A-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha”
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
At least he's not going in as a Marlin.
Now that would be something to cry about.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
I am glad he is in but this is stupid.
The Expos are dead and they have a player in already.
Andre will reap some of the benefits around baseball for this honor but not nearly as much as if he went in as a Cub.
To the above poster about Hall attendance-I agree that the turnout would have been higher if he went in as a Cub. Cub fans will do just about anything for the Cubs, but as much as we love Andre, traveling to watch an Expo go in is not quite the same.
This smacks of some sort of PC decision. Andre wanted to go in as a Cub. Its not like he wanted to go in as a Red Sox player. Was Joe Morgan lurking around this call?
Wouldn't putting a Cub hat on Dawson
for the sole purpose of making more people happy, be more of a PC move?
Nevertheless, I think you’re over-estimating the value the Hall puts on attendence at it’s inductions. It’s never had an issue getting people there and, besides, they’re not about trying to get the most butts in the seats as possible.
As someone pointed out above, the Hall does a great job (the best of the Halls) at honoring it’s history and that’s how they see it and many others (even some Cub fans) viewed his time in Montreal as his best years. Most famous? No. But this isn’t a popularity contest.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
So, the HoF should put him in as a Cub for marketing purposes?
Again, anyone who chooses NOT to attend because of the hat on the plaque probably wasn’t going to go in the first place.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
How is this anywhere near a PC move?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe PC was too strong of a word.....
Still think it is stupid and many of the posters below this may have said it better.
Andre will reap some of the benefits around baseball for this honor but not nearly as much as if he went in as a Cub.
I don’t even know what this means.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 27, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
A Cub Hall of Famer has more opportunities than an Expo would. Who cares about the Expos?
The Nationals don’t. The people of Montreal didn’t, they didn’t even go to the games.
You would think Andre would rather have Cubs attached to his name rather than a failed dead teams.
Why to chime in though!
This isn't Andre's choice.
Dawson, who won the National League Rookie of the Year Award in 1977 with the Expos and the NL Most Valuable Player Award with the Cubs in 1987, told a Chicago radio station that a Cubs cap was his preference and that he was “disappointed” that he wasn’t given more input in the decision.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Given the reasoning the HOF is using to put him in as an Expo....
How do they explain the Bruce Sutter situation? Very similar too me.
1982 World Series and Sutter's Wishes
Sutter’s most famous moment is striking out Gorman Thomas to end the 1982 World Series with St. Louis. Sutter wanted to go into the Hall as a Cardinal. There was no disagreement between Sutter and the Hall. Also, Sutter had his best season in 1984 with the Cardinals.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Not Much Time Difference in Time of Service
Sutter spent five seasons with the Cubs, and four with the Cardinals. I had been thinking that Sutter spent part of 1975 with the Cubs, but that’s not true. There have only been 15 HoF’ers players, by my count, that spent at least part of six different seasons playing with the Cubs. Dawson is the 15th. I had been counting Sutter in that group, but he only played five seasons with Chicago. I’ve got to take Sutter off that list.
Because there wasn’t much difference in time of service, I believe the 1982 World Series is the main reason Sutter is in the Hall as a Cardinal. In Dawson’s case, he spent at least part of 11 different seasons in Montreal. He only spent six with the Cubs. There was a big difference in time of service between the Expos and Cubs in Dawson’s case.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
what opportunities?
You think a baseball exec is going to look at hiring Andre, but because he went into the hall of fame as an Expo he won’t?
Andre is a hall of famer, what hat he’s wearing has no bearing whatsoever. You’re arguments on this are becoming ever more nonsensical
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
and it’s not as if the Cubs or their minor league affiliates are not going to bring him in to make personal appearances because he was inducted as an Expo. This whole argument is ridiculous.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Well put. Besides...
It’s not like Andre never has the option of never wearing another baseball teams’ hat from here on in just because his plaque in Cooperstown has an Expos logo on it. If Dawson never wants to acknowledge the Expos again he never has to. As far as endorsements or personal appearances go, he can wear a Cub hat and play up his time as a Cub until the day he dies if he wants.
Well put Nunya, some of these arguments are getting silly. As has been said here, the Hall is a museum with the intention of preserving the history of the game we love. No matter what some may think, the Expos legacy (which was a proud one) is a part of MLB history and it deserves to be treated with respect. Just because MLB and the Nationals choose not to respect that legacy doesn’t mean the Hall should follow suit as well. What the Hall is basically saying is that while Andre Dawson was very good as a Cub, he was as good (if not better), longer, as an Expo. It’s not an insult to Cub fans, it’s just what the numbers Dawson put up tells them. One last thing—if anyone was basing their decision on whether or not to go to the induction ceremony strictly on what logo was on Dawsons’ plaque, odds are you weren’t gonna go anyway.
Well, congrats to Hawk
although I’m disappointed that he won’t have his Cubs hat on. True he did have a lot of great years in Montreal, but when I heard the news on the radio this morning, I would have rather NOT heard it and gladly let the DJ kick me in the junk repeatedly instead. Overall, I’m just glad he finally made it.
While it's not what I wanted, it's what I expected.
I feel most sorry for Hawk as I’m guessing being in the HOF as a Cub would be more lucrative than wearing the cap of a defunct team.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Unless the Nats get off their collective hind ends and recognize that the Expos actually existed.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I thougth they tied their past to the Senators to try to
establish roots in the community.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
They did, but they should also recognize Expos history.
As noted above, it’s the same franchise.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It would help
if Texas and the Twins acknowledged their Washington roots more. The Twins include Washington players in their record books, but really make no mention of them otherwise.
You’d think Target Field could manage at least a plaque to Walter Johnson. They could retire his “number” like the Giants did with Christy Mathewson.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
The Twins should recognize it
The Orioles should recognize their history too. This is where Nats fans can say there’s no precedent. I certainly don’t see the Nats front office going nuts over the idea of retiring numbers for Eddie Yost or Mickey Vernon. Walter Johnson, Sam Rice and Goose Gossage didn’t wear numbers when they played.
The problem is that they did something really rotten. There weren’t numbers to be retired when the Browns and Senators moved to other cities and changed their names to the Orioles and Twins respectively. It is a red herring to use that as a precedent. The fact is that they reissued retired numbers, which is the biggest insult you can give to a former player. There was no cause to do it. They simply moved to another city and changed their name.
Is it going to force the front office to do some soul searching? Probably not. They already have problems with attendance and I don’t think a number retiring ceremony is going to bring people out of the woodwork unless they invite Mickey Vernon’s family over and the still living Eddie Yost to retire their numbers in the ceremony.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Name fail
Goose Goslin, not Goose Gossage.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
That's OK
You get credit just for knowing who he was.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Precedent
the Dodgers and Giants extensively honor their Brooklyn and New York teams. Now of course they didn’t change their team names. I think Oakland honors their Philadelphia teams as much as they honor anything. KC, not so much, but in their defense, there was nothing to honor about the Kansas City Athletics. Baltimore has that defense—other than George Sisler and maybe Ken Williams, there isn’t much to honor about the St. Louis Browns.
What you point out is that those franchises moved before there was any tradition of retiring numbers—in fact, their best players didn’t even have numbers because they played before numbers. So the Expos/Nats are breaking a promise to those players whose numbers they retired that they would never be worn again, and that’s somewhat worse.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
I also did a little bit of research
Goslin did return for two stints with the Senators when they started wearing uniform numbers. He wore the #5 in 1933 and #20 in 1938. Sam Rice wore the #2 in 1931 and #22 in 1932 and 1933. It was a bit of a mistake in research, but we’re also describing a period of time that hardly justifies retiring a number for Goslin. Sam Rice could be honored by retiring the #22, but they haven’t gotten around to it.
The big difference with the Braves, Athletics, Giants and Dodgers compared to the Orioles, Nationals and Twins is that the former teams did not change their names after moving to different markets. They kept their team history intact and they did not deny it. Bill Terry, Mel Ott and Carl Hubbell still have their numbers retired with the Giants despite playing when the team still played in New York.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Ken Williams: First 30-30 Player
He was the first ever 30-30 guy. In 1922, he hit 39 HR’s and stole 37 bases. Though, he did get caught stealing 20 times that season.
I don’t think anybody else went 30-30 again until Willie Mays did it in back to back seasons in 1956 (36 HR, 40 SB, 10 CS) and 1957 (35 HR, 38 SB, 19 CS).
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Canseco, but that was 40/40
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
jeez...mad dog, is that still out there?
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Not where I shop, but probably.
Look for it next to the Ripple, Wild Irish Rose & Boone’s Farm.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
I have a Boone's Farm belt buckle for some unknown reason. I
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
I imagine any memory of when
that occurred would be fuzzy. Wouldn’t seem like as good an idea if mentally operational.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Is it really?
A new ownership group bought the rights to the franchise from it’s then owner, MLB. Ownership had no ties to the Expos and merely took players and probably some staff.
I agree it’s the same franchise, but I don’t think Nats ownership or the fanbase agree.
It’s almost like the Ravens and the Browns. The difference is the Expos didn’t reform as an expansion team, yet.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
It's not at all like the Ravens and Browns.
In the case of the NFL teams, there was a huge gap in between the franchise that left and the new one, with completely different players. In the Browns case all that is the same are the team colors and uniforms.
The Expos franchise, though with new ownership, was the same team in Washington in 2005 that it was in Montreal in 2004, given normal offseason moves.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not entirely true. Cleveland retained the
the traditions of the Browns and the Ravens gave them up.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Bingo
Cleveland fought to keep the history of the Browns. It’s much like Seattle fought to keep the history of the SuperSonics.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
The history, yes.
But the team — meaning the players — was completely built from scratch.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Can't say that I'm pissed.
It was a toss up either way. Based on stats, he probably should go in as a Expo. Based on logic, he probably should go in as a Cub.
In the end it doesn’t matter to me. My one man boycott of the HOF continues until Santo gets in.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
He is going in as an Expo and as a Cub (and a Marlin)
…just wearing an Expos hat. The plaque will list all his teams. This does not diminish my enthusiasm for his election one bit.
by ChipSet on Jan 27, 2010 8:48 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Andre Dawson is a CUB forever
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Comments
What else would you expect from BBWA. MLB tried to prop up Montreal for years, to the extent of MLB running the team. A city that just plain didn’t want Major League Baseball. The franchise didn’t want the stupid nickname," Expos" either. The city doesn’t even want to be part of Canada!
Yes, Andre spent more years in the exile called Montreal
but nobody knew who he was until he came to a baseball city. More people saw him play in Chicago in 3 Years than saw him play in Canada in 10 years. In the future BBWA will be able to say Montreal has 2 players in the HOF and kids will say…Montreal had a team? Just like the STL Browns or the Pilots, MLB Franchise FAILURES. Lets shame these poor players, doomed forever to being connected to FAILED Franchises.
This is the BBWA’s Hall of Fame, they own it, they make the rules! They are the supreme ones. The only people on the face of the earth capable enough to make a judgment as to who gets in OUR Hall of Fame. You have former baseball writers across the country writing food columns, eligible to vote for ball players they have never seen play, they don’t care. At the minimum….broadcasters should be included. People who are qualified and knowledgeable should be voting: Bob Costas, Vin Scully, Ernie Harwell, Pat Hughes, John Rooney much less those who have passed and never ever had a chance to vote Brickhouse, Carey, Jack Buck and Bob Elson, but no, we rely on food critics & gossip columnists who qualify to vote.
This is not a True baseball Hall of Fame.
Maybe I should start of the old-timers commitee………If RON SANTO doesn’t get in …… this whole HOF thing is total BS. It really isn’t worth talking about. Sorry I wasted your time.
Jim Ewert / RS 10
by RS 10 on Jan 27, 2010 8:58 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
The BBWAA
did not make this decision. It is also not the BBWAA’s Hall.
If you want to know whose owns the Hall of Fame, it’s the heirs to the Singer Sewing Machine fortune. Really. They somewhat foolishly allow BBWAA to help choose it’s membership.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I knew who he was
as an Expo. He and Ellis Valentine were Cub-killers.
A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Indeed
It’s not like I never heard of Andre Dawson until he came to the Cubs. He already was a great player by that point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Ditto.
I remember Dawson very well as an Expo. Back in ’87, I was just as happy for our pitchers to not have to face Dawson as I was to see him in a Cub uniform.
Dawson once hit two HR in an inning at Wrigley Field as an Expo.
In the fifth inning of this wacky game on September 24, 1985. He hit three HR and drove in eight runs in all that day. The Expos scored 12 runs in that 5th inning, which I believe is the largest inning by anyone at Wrigley Field in at least the last 50 years.
Despite all that, and trailing 17-10 going into the last of the 9th, the Cubs scored five runs and had the tying run at the plate when the game ended.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Starting Ray Fontenot . . . ugh
And the top 3 batters in the Montreal lineup were teammates on the Cubs in 1988 and 1989.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
i remember seeing Dawson vs Jody Davis in a HR Derby
pregame as a child, wish I knew the date but i was a real young tike
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
This is bullshit.
I hate most everything about the HOF. And Bud Selig.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah! How dare they not allow the players to sell the rights to what hat they wear!
They are protecting the history of the damn game, they’re bound to be a little righteous
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
How is keeping Santo and Blyleven out...
…“protecting the history of the damn game”?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
They don't believe they belong in there
Some disagree, it doesn’t make them assholes
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
They don't have a good case to keep either out.
They are doing it to make an example out of these guys and that makes them a-holes in my opinion.
http://www.bertbelongs.com/pages/pitchers_duel.html
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
In your opinion they don't have a good case
in theirs, they do. Why exactly do you think they’re “making an example” of Blyleven and Santo.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Okay so they have a different opinion.
But stats are stats.
I believe they are making an example out of them because of what you said before, they want to protect the history of the game. They see it as a slippery slope and they are drawing the line at Santo/Blyleven to show that even guys that deserve to be in, can’t get in.
Maybe you can make the case on why they don’t belong?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
No, I can't make the case, because I don't neccesarily believe they don't belong
I just think your premise that they’re drawing a line in the sand in an effort to show that even guys who deserve to get in, won’t get in, is silly.
I’m sure they have their reasons, I don’t think that’s it
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
There's no other conclusion to make!
If these two have comparable (if not better) stats than players currently in, what other reason could there be? Both were on good teams, so you can’t say their stats didn’t mean anything. Both are ambassadors for the game. I mean seriously, play devils advocate for a second and argue their side for me.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I don't have the slightest clue what their side is
nor do I have the inclination to make it for them. I simply don’t think its out of mean spiritedness
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Mean spiritedness, no.
But they are still wrong and using two worthy candidates as examples is a reason to be called an a-hole.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Gotcha, if you disagree with them, it's okay to call them A-Holes
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
That is not what Andre was trying to do....and you know it
Wade Boggs’ greedy ass wrecked it for everybody.
by TJ11 on Jan 27, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
yes, Wade Boggs, and Dave Winfield wrecked it for everybody
most rules and regulations in the history of the world are as a punishment of many, because of a few.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
I dislike they can make decisions on eligility (like Pete Rose & Shoeless Joe)
based on what they believe is best for the business of baseball and others (like Hawk’s cap) on their standing as a museum of the game.
I want them to pick a lane.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Yes, it's all money-driven.
That’s why a small-market team that doesn’t exist anymore gets this HOFer.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
The Hall of Fame didn't want to show up MLB because the BBWAA would have elected Rose
Shoeless Joe’s exclusion had been via a gentleman’s agreement. If Rose had been elected only a few years after accepting a lifetime ban, it would have been pretty embarrassing. To get around the whole “lifetime” word, they called it permanent ineligibility. This allowed the Hall to exclude Rose despite only having a lifetime ban and have the language to keep Joe Jackson out of the Hall of Fame.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
what does Bud Selig have to do with it?
I don’t think he was the one who made this decision, I hate Bud Selig like I hate herpes, but that hatred doesn’t really apply here
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Nothing.
I just hate:
Bud Selig
Twitter
Milton Bradley
Cats
and Larry the Cable Guy
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Small, as in microscopic maybe
Dude might be the least funny “comedian” in the history of………history
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
nope, he's still funnier than Larry
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry, I just don't get the outrage over this
It doesn’t hurt you personally. The man is going into the hall of fame, be happy about that. I like the Hawk, and could care freaking less what hat he’s wearing.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
personally I dont feel either outrage or have my feelings hurt by this, but
I would really have preferred him going in as a Cub just b/c I was trying to get a group together to go to the ceremony. Now I’m not sure they are going to be as willing.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 27, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
This is a point many are making
People will not be as likely to go to watch an Expo player go in no matter how much Andre is loved in Chicago.
I believe the HOF shot themselves in the foot on this. The Nationals don’t even care about their history, why should anyone else?
"The Nationals don’t even care about their history, why should anyone else?"
For precisely that reason?
The Hall of Fame didn’t shoot themselves in the foot. This shouldn’t be a business decision. And they shouldn’t be forced to account for bitter mouth breathers who refuse to show up for Dawson’s induction, because he’s not wearing the right clothes
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Boy, I can't
agree with this more. Nice post. NYB.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
so...
… in a day and age when far too many organizations and businesses cave in and do the “Wrong thing” for the sake of PR, you’re chiding the HoF for doing what they believe to be the right thing?
Other than the fact that he played there longer, why should he be in as an Expo?
He had great years there but was he known to the world like he was as a Cub? No.
Would he be going in the HOF if he stayed in Montreal his whole career? Try to answer that one truthfully…..
As far as the years played in one city thing……See Bruce Sutter. Played for the Cubs longer, won a Cy Young and is wearing a Cardinals cap. Explain the difference.
you're missing the point
Here is why you chastized the HoF
People will not be as likely to go to watch an Expo player go in no matter how much Andre is loved in Chicago.
I believe the HOF shot themselves in the foot on this. The Nationals don’t even care about their history, why should anyone else?
I don’t have a strong opinion on what cap Dawson has on his HoF plaque. To me, any Cub fan who bases his decision on this is as petty as the Cubs would be if this impacts their decision to retire Dawson’s jersey. But you are the one basing your argument on PR and making more fans happy. That should have nothing to do with their decision. The HoF is a museum with a clear mission and part of that likely is the preservation of baseball history. So they should do what they feel is right. I have no qualms with Cub fans basing their arguments around stats and career performance, but to say that the HoF should do this based on PR is just wrong.
well, as others have said, that's just dumb
If you like the player, you go see him inducted. I don’t get why what hat he’s wearing has ANY baring at all.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
It may not have a bearing to bigger fans like us,
but to casual fans that we are trying to coax along for the ride, it very well might.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jan 27, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
I dont care whether he goes in as a Cub or not
my group of friends were just more agreeable to go to the ceremony thinking Dawson was going in as a Cub. They’re not as much of baseball fans as I am. I would want to go either way, but I’m not going alone! Anyway, I dont kid myself into thinking anyone, in any capacity, in any sport, doesn’t consider PR in making their decisions. I think this was a mistake.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 27, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
I think we should still retire his number
But I do think it is ridiculous that the AMERICAN baseball hall of fame is putting him in under a canadian team that no longer exists
"Okay, just so I understand it...in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil."- Jim Halpert
by ryanbrixenivy on Jan 27, 2010 11:01 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No, it isn't
It’s an ignorant comment.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
(Sarcasm) Kick Fergie Jenkins Out!
(Sarcasm) What business does that Canadian have in the Hall of Fame?
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I wasnt being ignorant I was being sarcastic
I know that there are a lot of great foreign players obviously. I do believe however that it should be up to the player, not the HOF voters as to what hat they wear on their plaque
"Okay, just so I understand it...in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil."- Jim Halpert
by ryanbrixenivy on Jan 28, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
You forgot the sarcasm font
And the museum is trying to accurately portray history. Plus, well, it’s their museum.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
how in the name of all that is holy is that a good point
So no Toronto Bluejays should be allowed in?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Joke or not, they were a part of Major League Baseball history
The St. Louis Browns no longer exist, should we change any players’ busts that have their hat?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
No they shouldn't, just saying there was a legitimate choice for them with Andre.
It didn’t need to be as an Expo. Its what he wanted and since the expos do not play anymore and the team that they became does not care about them anymore, why not let him be a Cub?
by TJ11 on Jan 27, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
because the team they became not caring about them anymore
is an argument for WHY there should be Expos in the hall.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
There are a lot more Expos fans than 10
Montreal was a good baseball town. Not a great one, but a good one.
In a way, I admire their fans, because they had the guts to say “screw you” to baseball after the strike. And they paid for it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Jesus Bruce, I'm finding myself agreeing with you an awful lot today
As I said in another conversation, the Expos didn’t ask major league baseball to remove the team, it was yanked out from under them. Did they have some serious attendance problems?
Absolutely
So do the Marlins, and so did the Devilrays before they became competitive.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Well said Bruce!
I think a lot of people here who are complaining about the Expos don’t remember when they were a competitive team. For many years in the late 70s-early 80s, the Expos outdrew the Cubs. I guess that means Cub fans didn’t care about the team back then (tongue firmly in cheek).
ding ding ding
we have a winner
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Are only fans of a team
allowed to look at the players who wear that cap? Because, I like to look at all of them, but if I’m not allowed to look at Expos players, maybe I’ll just save my money and not go to the Hall……
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
The Expos still existed when Gary Carter was inducted
The Washington Nationals then refused to acknowledge the only Hall of Famer that represents their franchise by reissuing his number. That was a good a reason as any not to put Dawson in as an Expo.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Because new ownership of the Nationals are morons?
that’s a GOOD argument?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
It's a very good argument
Dawson can’t properly be celebrated by the team he represents because they, for some strange reason, refuse to recognize that part of their team’s history. There are some Nats fans that understand this, but why should they get the honor of Dawson “representing them” if they refuse to acknowledge he ever played there? While it’s to be commended that the Hall acknowledges the history of baseball, a blind man could see that Dawson ultimately reaps no extra benefits from this apart from simply being in the Hall of Fame.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
TJ11 I just want to say I totally agree with you here!.....rec'd
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 27, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions
Red herring
Unless Urban Shocker makes it into Cooperstown by some miracle, the Browns aren’t going to have anyone else representing them in the Hall of Fame.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
(Sarcasm) Roberto Alomar
(Sarcasm) Alomar didn’t make the Hall this year because he had his best years with the Blue Jays.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
and spit in an umps face
should be banned for life
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Actually it was a really bad point
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Excuse me?
Where in the hall of fame in Cooperstown does it say it’s the “AMERICAN” Hall of Fame. It doesn’t. It’s the hall of fame for all of baseball everywhere in the world.
This is a stupid, xenophobic comment.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Are you being serious?
Xenophobia aside, the Expos were part of Major League Baseball. Just as much as the Cubs or the Cardinals or any other team. Why would their players be excluded?
If Roy Halladay makes it into the Hall someday, would it then be wrong for him to go in wearing a Blue Jays cap?
You really can’t be this ignorant, can you?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Damn right they should be exluded! We're gonna allow Fureners into the hall?!
Tongue planted very firmly in cheek
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Rumors..rumors rumors..
No one has ever heard of this ancient myth called “The Montreal Expos.” Not one person in Montreal remembers or cares about discussing it, nor are there any records to prove their existence
Start Sean Marshall!!
Canada is part of North America
It is American.
"Fasten those seatbelts"-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Jan 27, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Really stinkin thinkin
The Expos no longer exist so they should be ignored? The HOF is about the history of the game, and the Montreal Expos are part of the history of the game. Deal with it.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Are there any Expos in the Hall?
As much as I want to to see the Hawk go in in as a Cub. The Expos franchise is a part of the history of the game. The Expos will have a permanent legacy in the hallowed halls in Cooperstown.
Gary Carter
is in as an Expo. The decision to put Carter in as an Expo set the precedent that Dawson go in as an Expo.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Well, the real reason
is because of Wade Boggs. I’ve read Carter wanted to go in as a Met.
I wonder if Mets fans had as vigorous (and at times asinine) a debate about Carter as we’re having about Dawson.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
Carter did want to go in as a Met
And he was a guy who was better with the Expos but more famous with a big market team.
The problem is that Carter spent 12 seasons with the Expos (really 11) and only five with the Mets. And in only two of those seasons was he any good. Dawson spent 11 seasons with the Expos (really ten) and six seasons with the Cubs, and he was good in all six of those seasons. So it was a lot closer call, but I think the Carter precedent swayed them.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
True, that
Although Carter did win a World Series with the Mets, which might count for something.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
I said they would do this...
Morons… they think what they are doing is right by preserving the “Expos” legacy. BARF. Stupid…
stupid because.........?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Well... for one reason...
… they pretty much lied to Andre when they told him his opinion mattered…
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
They didn't tell him his opinion was the decisive factor
In fact they’ve been very upfront, since the rule changed, that they would have the final say.
Be disappointed, that’s your prerogative, but don’t claim there was some massive deception going on. We were debating what hat he would wear on here a while back for a reason.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Man...
Your quick with assumptions. “Massive deceptions?” “Doesn’t want to be in hall” “Green boogers anywhere”
Hmmm…. Slow down with your reading mate.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
" I think whats amazing... … is how the HOF tried so hard to HIDE the fact that it was THEM that make the decision"
That’s you right? You claimed they worked hard to fool people, which they didn’t
Green boogers? What the hell are you even talking about?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
Green boogers...
You keep making crap up… enjoy your green boogers. I hope they taste well for you.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
THIS IS WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS STATED
""The Hall clearly stated their major concern is the history of the game, and that’s what really played into their decision," Dawson said. “I’m disappointed. I can probably say that, because Chicago was my preference.” – Andre Dawson
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4862768
I REALLY feel like the HOF has taken a BIG CRAP ON ANDRE DAWSON AND US FANS!
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 11:43 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Lord
It’s gotten to the point where being inducted into the Hall of Fame is an insult.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
No it not.
…but in this case, its like an autodealer giving you a BRAND new Dodge Charger…except, it has no engine, and you can’t afford to buy one nor pay the insurance.
Kinda doesn’t feel 100% right now does it?
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
It's not even remotely like that
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
no, it's not
He wasn’t told he was being inducted into the hall of fame, and it turned out he was being inducted in the Western Iowa Sports hall of fame.
Josh’s analogy is far closer than yours
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
yes, because of it's actual accuracy
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
good debating . . .
this isn’t it
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
How is it like that?
It’s more like getting your dream car in a different color than what you wanted. isn’t it? It still works.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Not really...
…because in this case, it appears Andre wanted to get into the HOF for not only himself, but for Cubs fans.
Probably the reason he couldn’t sleep was because he felt a little bit like he just us fans down. That isn’t true… but its obvious this is a different HOF situation than usual because we don’t have a player that was 100% into himself.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
so you're saying that he DOESN'T want to go in the hall now?
Cuz that sure as hell aint true
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I never said that.
That was stupid.
I guess if I said I saw something green, you would assume I was eating boogers also?
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
hawk said...
While talking about his preference of a Cubs hat over the one the Hall chose… “Cubs fans will always be incredibly important in my heart, and I owe them so much for making my time in Chicago memorable” (mlb.com)
In his eyes… The HOF wasn’t just about him, but it was about us too. Deal with it tito.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't have final say as to what hat he got to wear into the hall
he knew that long ago.
Deal with that tito.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
No he didn't
Obviously you haven’t read ONE of his interviews.
So… i guess YOU ARE SAYING ANDRE DAWSON IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH???
Deal with it tito.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
The Truth
I believe the HOF has taken a big crap on Andre Dawson, Chicago, Cubs fans, and the sport itself by forcing Hawk to wear an Expos hat and for not telling him the truth when they told him his opinion mattered.
It's not like our friends at Federal Baseball have commented on it
There’s a blog post on the front page that has received zero comments. Even a post suggesting that the numbers be retired a few weeks ago showed you what the fan base thinks of Expos history. They generally don’t care about it. Why should the Hall of Fame? I could understand if this was a posthumous election of an old Browns or Senators player, but give me a break. There is no Expos fanbase to celebrate a living Hall of Famer. It’s a shame.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
What Nationals fans on one blog think has no correlation to whether or not the Expos should have hall representation
Just because a group of people don’t care what went on in the past, doesn’t mean everyone should completely ignore it. The Expos existed, they were a part of major league baseball for decades.
I’m not completely invested in Lee Smith, and his road to the Hall of Fame. If he were inducted into the hall as a Cub, I’d be no more interested in it, because I’m just not a Lee Smith fan, beyond thinking he deserves to be in. It doesn’t automatically invalidate any claims that he should wear a Cubs hat into the hall.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
re: you're not a Lee Smith fan -- he wouldn't be one of the last players inducted for the Cubs....
it should mean something to them that this might be it, even if they aren’t Dawson fans, yet I understand why it’s not important. They are the Nationals of the USA now, not really the former Expos of Canada anymore.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 27, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Taking this a bit personally dontcha think?
And repeating it does not make it any less hysterical.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
How do you know they didn't listen to his opinion?
Andre had his say, they gave him that. His opinion mattered, but they made a decision. Just because it didn’t go along with his doesn’t mean they “lied” to him.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 27, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
What Hawk Has to Say.
Dawson, who spent the first 10 full seasons of his career in Montreal, wanted his bust to feature a Cubs hat. He played six seasons with the Cubs, beginning with his MVP year in 1987.
“I know the difference in the 10 to 6 years probably was something of a consideration on their part,” Dawson said on “The Waddle & Silvy Show” on ESPN 1000. "But I tried to explain, perhaps, the impact of what really catapulted me to Hall of Fame status, and pretty much what my preference was.
“But I think their decision had been made. It was a little gut-wrenching for me to hear that, but it’s their decision, and I respect that, and from there I move on.”
Dawson was hoping his preference would carry a little more weight, but the fact the Expos no longer exist might have made an impact on the Hall. The organization left Montreal after the 2004 season and moved to Washington, D.C., becoming the Nationals.
“The Hall clearly stated their major concern is the history of the game, and that’s what really played into their decision,” Dawson said. "I’m disappointed. I can probably say that, because Chicago was my preference.
“I received a letter prior to the voting, and it was my understanding they would make the determination [after] sitting down and discussing it … And I just thought it would carry a little more weight than it did.”
Dawson was asked if he might put on a Cubs hat during his induction speech.
ESPNChicago.com baseball blog
The latest news from baseball beat reporter Bruce Levine. Blog
“To be honest with you, I thought about that,” he said. "It was a tough night for me sleeping [Tuesday]. I slept better the night before the announcement than I did after I got the decision last night, as odd as that might sound.
“I don’t want to do anything that might be an embarrassment to someone or show someone up, that’s not my character. But there will be some way I will try to acknowledge the Cubs fans to show just how important they were to me. I did think about at some point in time during the speech putting a Cubs cap on, but I don’t know if that’s appropriate.”
-Andre Dawson (from the espn link above)
One reason WHY he should wear a Cubs hat!
“To be honest with you, I thought about that," he said. “It was a tough night for me sleeping [Tuesday]. I slept better the night before the announcement than I did after I got the decision last night, as odd as that might sound.” – Andre Dawson
That is somebody who cares about us Cubs fans. This is also one big reasson why the HOF decision makers really are out of touch with certain aspects of the game. First off, you shouldn’t have basically lied to the player. (I bet they just assumed he would want to be an Expo) 2ndly, you don’t do this to the fans of the game. It doesn’t matter if its us Cubs fans, Cards fans, Yankees fans, BoSox fans… etc…
Out of touch! That is how you describe the HOF.
Or...
“"The Hall clearly stated their major concern is the history of the game, and that’s what really played into their decision”
They care more about the history of the game, than opinion polls.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
That's true...
… but, if you care too much about the “history of the game” your going to get lost in your own version of it and it will be a person that the majority of baseball fans won’t care about.
Thus… driving a wall between the fans and the game. (Like the players did in the ’94 strike)
I am not saying this is going to break the HOF… but they are going to be having a rough patch ahead with the ‘roiders, etc… Hopefully,. they don’t get lost and forget about what makes baseball so special. The fans…
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I hate to tell you this, but the only wall being driven is the wall between the hall
and fans who care WAAAAAAAAY too much about semantics.
“but, if you care too much about the "history of the game" your going to get lost in your own version of it and it will be a person that the majority of baseball fans won’t care about.”
I don’t even understand this statement. “It will be a person that the majority of baseball fans won’t care about” HUH?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe I'm writing too much and need to edit before i post. lol
… like usual, somebody in power wants to write their own version of the game. The HOF wants people to remember Dawson with the EXPOS because it will make people in the future acknowledge the EXPOS more. The HOF is writing their own version of MLB history.
Fans today don’t care about the EXPOS, to us, (and even those who are not Cubs fans) Andre Dawson was a Chicago Cubs. The HOF wants to rewrite that for historical reasons…
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
That's not their own version of History, that's freaking HISTORY
Their own version of history would be if he hadn’t ever played for the Expos, and they claimed he did.
And please, don’t speak for “fans today” there are plenty of them who “care about the Expos” And don’t give me the “they didn’t even go to the games” nonsense, because no one freaking goes to the Marlins games, and they still have a team. Montreal didn’t pass a referendum asking Major League Baseball to remove their team. Buddy body did that.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Um...
… no its not. You obviously are failing to grasp what is being said here.
Andre Dawson is remembered as being with the Chicago Cubs. The HOF are historically trying to rewrite his major impact as being with the Expos.
40 years from now… a lot of us will be gone, and those who aren’t are opinions won’t matter. When the next generation looks at who this “Andre Dawson” is… they are going to see what the HOF shows them. A man who made his biggest impact with the Expos.
The future will lie…
Deal with that tito and go bug someone else. I stated my opinon, stop attacking me.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Last time
Saying Andre Dawson will be remembered as a Cub, IS YOUR OPINION. That’s not HISTORY.
The history books will say he played with the Expos, and the Cubs, and the Marlins, and the Redsox. In fact, the plaque IN THE HALL OF FAME, will point out he played with the Cubs, and the numbers he put up AS a Cub. His freaking HAT will be an Expos hat.
Jesus, you act as though the Hall is going to claim his career ended in 1986, or that the stats he put up with the Cubs were actually with the Expos.
I’ve never seen someone make a bigger deal out of something so tiny. I mean, I get that people are disappointed by this, but you’re blowing it way, way, WAAAY out of proportion
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
HAHA
You make it sound like i am running around the house yelling at the top of my lungs because of this… you even use the word “act.”
Wow dude. You need somebody to come by and be your friend.
Since you go crazy about my opinion… here is my opinion. You are a jerk. Not because of anything about this whole Andre Dawson issue. But because I did post my thoughts and opinions about them and you personally attack me. So yeah… I am not going to be very nice in response.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
They have been for a long time.....
I know its a separate issue, but I can’t think of the HOF without thinking of the idiot Joe Morgan…
This is stupid.
The player should be able to decide. It’s Andre’s career. It’s his plaque. Why does some random old man get to arbitrarily decide what hat he wears? Now, certainly there should be SOME rules put in place. I.e. if Jim Edmonds gets into the Hall and wants to wear a Cubs cap, then no, he shouldn’t be able to. But a guy like Dawson, who spent a significant portion of his career as a Cub, he should absolutely 100% be able to wear the Cubs cap if he chooses to.
I think whats amazing...
… is how the HOF tried so hard to HIDE the fact that it was THEM that make the decision. Not the player….
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
They hid nothing,
there was a freaking announcment when they made the change. It’s been common knowledge for years.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Excellent point
bravo!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I acknowledge that Dawson was a great player in Montreal for a long time.
But if you really want to crunch the numbers, his overall numbers there were pretty similar to his overall numbers with the Cubs, he just played in Montreal longer. He should be going in as a Cub, period. That being said, he’ll always be remembered as a Cub, especially by Cub fans. I guess in the grand scheme of things, that’s what’s important.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
But the horses who PULLED the buggies think of him as a Marlin
Horses are stupid
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
But what about taxi fans?
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 30, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Olympic Stadium Decreased Numbers
Keep in mind, Olympic Stadium was a tougher park for hitters than Wrigley Field was. Olympic Stadium took away from Dawson’s offensive numbers with the Expos.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
But...
Dawson finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 3 times (finishing 2nd twice) in Montreal, compared to only once (the year he won obviously) in Chicago. That tells me that his numbers in Montreal, while similar to his numbers in Chicago, were more impressive during those years compared to the rest of the league. And like Memphiscub said, Olympic Stadium was a pitcher’s park. Additionally, he won the ROY and 6 Gold Gloves (compared to 2) in Montreal. And there is one stat that seems to be largely overlooked in this discussion—Dawson’s stolen base numbers in Montreal. 7 times he had over 20 SBs, over 30 3 times. He never had 20 stolen bases in any season with the Cubs. I could be wrong, but I’m willing to bet that if it hadn’t been for those stolen bases (and the company his 400 HR/300 SB put him in), Dawson probably doesn’t get into the Hall of Fame. At least not yet.
From the "Scenes I'd Like To See" files...
It’s a beautiful summer day in Cooperstown. Thousands have come together to celebrate the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies. Up on the stage is a most impressive sight – almost all of the living Hall of Famers are gathered to witness the induction of a fellow member. The audience cheers madly when Andre Dawson is introduced and the noise continues as he approaches the podium. Finally, a quiet hush falls over the crowd as a beaming Andre prepares to speak, all the while brushing back the occasional tear.
Andre clears his throat, turns slightly towards where Hall officials are seated, and reaches into his suit jacket as if to pull out his speech. Instead, he pulls out a Cubs cap and s-l-o-w-l-y puts it on, all the while glaring intently into the eyes of those HoF officials, in a manner seen many times on the field of play. He continues to stare at them for a few moments as they start to squirm and shift uncomfortably in their seats, withering under the Hawk’s intense glare.
Finally after one last tug of the cap, Andre turns back towards the crowd and begins his speech. But the first few words are lost as the sounds of thunderous applause rolls forth from the thousands of Cubs fan in attendance….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It very well could happen exactly the way you described it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Puh-leaze
Dawson is too classy to do something like that
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
You're right
Ed Chigliak at Federal Baseball has probably been one of the more supportive Nats fans when it comes to recognizing Expos history. I haven’t heard much about the Nationals front office going out of their way to congratulate Dawson.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Oh, I agree with you - he'll make his point in other, more classy, ways...
but I did preface my comment by saying this was from the “Scenes I’d Like To See” files…
and I stand by that.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The scene I'd like to see is vastly different
In it, Dawson acts like the classy adult that he is, thanks the BBWA, and the Hall for this illustrious honor, and at some point in his speech, elaborates on how important his time with the Cubs was and so on and so forth. Do I want to see him make an ass of himself by trying to show up the very people who are honoring him?
No.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for your opinion.
Too bad you have a problem with others stating theirs.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
You can state your opinion all you want
If I disagree with it, I’ll let you know. If you pass your opinion off as fact, without any basis in reality, I’ll let you know about that too.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
Haha...
…obviously, you are confused about your own opinions.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
I'm certainly confused by that comment,
I’ll give you that.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
You are certainly confused by a lot of things...
… tito
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Knock it off
Both of you.
This whole discussion has gotten out of hand.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
I kept thinking something like that might happen at the Cubs Convention.
Especially during the Opening Ceremony. I thought maybe he would come out wearing a Cubs cap and they would make some kind of announcement then. When there was no announcement of any kind during the convention, I felt like that was not a good sign.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Don't care
I honestly don’t care. His plaque will read Cubs.
I wouldn’t have cared had he went in as a Marlin or Red Sox.
From a pure baseball point of view, I think the Expos make sense. The main reason Dawson supporters have for voting him in is his blend of speed and power. 400 homers, 300 steals and all that. Strong enough to hit 30 HR, yet good enough to play CF.
He was more of that guy in Montreal than he was in Chicago.
Dawson is my all-time favorite Cub.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Sorry, that got cut off
He is my all time favorite Cub. He was my all-time favorite Cub even when he finished up with Boston and Florida. He will be my all-time favorite even if his cap has that symbol that looks like a penis.
And if the Cubs do not retire his number over this, then, well, fuck the Cubs.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
I think they will retire his number
They haven’t come around to announcing it yet and I think they were awaiting the announcement from the Hall of Fame. I’m hoping we see the #8 retired.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Mine too.
I named my son Dawson after him 4 years ago.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
It seems to me...
… that far too many people here are making this about them. I, frankly, am a bit embarrassed. This must be what its like to be a Yankee or Red Sox fan. This isn’t about us, its about Andre Dawson, but more than Andre Dawson, its about the history of the sport. Its about honoring the past and creating a tribune long after all of us are gone. This is what a museum is for, its for our kids, and our kids kids more than it is for us. We remember Dawson because we saw him play but a museum is a way to relay history to future generations.
So for the love of God, get off your damn high horses. The Hall doesn’t owe Cub fans a damn thing. If this is a slap in Dawson’s face for the sake of doing history justice, so be it. Dawson is a Hall of Famer. He was also a Cub who had a great run here. This doesn’t change that, so take a breath and get some perspective!
by dmlichte on Jan 27, 2010 12:57 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
True...
… But Andre made it about the fans also. Just read any of his interviews since yesterday.
However, I am bummed about the fans aspect… but moreso at how they deceived Hawk somewhat. I believe the HOF “control” over this may hit a head sometime in the future. Especially with all of these players having played for multiple teams.
The Dawson HOF hat issue is finished. But the HOF’s ability to decide for them is an issue that will probably be heating up…
Hope I am making sense.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
heating up?
maybe amongst a segment of Cub fans who are unhappy that they didn’t get their way. And saying that they deceived Dawson is without any proof. You weren’t a part of any discussion between Dawson and the HoF powers that be. Saying they will consider his input doesn’t mean that they’ll do what he wants, it means that they’ll consider his input.
I only care that Dawson is in the Hall of Fame
Maybe one of these days, the Nationals will get around to saying, “Hey. We used to be the Expos.”
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I am talking about...
…the issue of the HOF deciding who wears what hat. With players having played with multiple teams, it’s bound to become an issue in the forthcoming years. As I stated, the issue with Andre is over. They decided, Nuff said.
But the issue of the HOF deciding caps in general is not over…
Read what Andre Dawson said… sure sounds like there was some misleading going on.
“The Hall clearly stated their major concern is the history of the game, and that’s what really played into their decision," Dawson said. "I’m disappointed. I can probably say that, because Chicago was my preference.
"I received a letter prior to the voting, and it was my understanding they would make the determination [after] sitting down and discussing it … And I just thought it would carry a little more weight than it did."
So don’t be a jerk and be like " you weren’t a part of any discussion between dawson and hof…"etc… that was just STUPID to even say.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
then don't...
… use heavy words like deception when they didn’t deceive him. They didn’t listen to him and they didn’t give his preference the weight he wished the had, but they didn’t deceive him.
I've already tried this tact with him
it doesn’t take
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
You were a jerk...
…So, im not taking anything from you…. jerk.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
you're taking a verbal whuppin
kiddo
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
I have no dog in this fight
But you’re not really making a strong case for yourself here. It’s an essentially anonymous board….let it go.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
I did
… but came back to more crap.
I mean no offense to you… I just stated my opinion. Nunyabidness was a jerk to me simply because he didn’t like my opinion. That’s wrong. He tried mocking my opinion, etc… and all I did was fight back. I will. We all have the right to state our opinions, but if you get personal, I won’t be nice back.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose
Just IMO, reading it all at once, no one is coming across all that great.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry.
I ean no offense to anyone except jerky-boy. I just have a hard time stepping back when someone acts like a hypocrite and attacks me personally because of my opinion… then goes and posts theirs and acts like your stupid if you don’t think like he does.
Its a board where we all post our opinion. In many cases, there is no right or wrong. I just get too defensive… sorry… I don’t mean to make everyone look bad by fighting back…
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Scroll down...
… he did it again. Put words in my mouth, etc… all of this isn’t just my fault.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
So... you were there?
Man… I thought you were just getting on to people for saying the very thing you are implying!
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
If...
HawkRules, Dmlichte, and JerkNunyabidness were all sitting around a table, and jerk farted, yet blamed me… Even though its not really a big deal, its deception. If somebody was mislead, it’s still deception. It isn’t really a great big deal, and maybe it was a strong word to use, but it still fits.
By the way… Nunyabidness didn’t fart. He just pooped his pants.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
+1 and reced
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
It isn't just what Cubs fans wanted...
it’s about what Andre wanted. And, at least to me, that’s what’s most important here.
You could easily make a case for him to wear the Cubs cap or the Expos. The bottom line is, Andre wants to wear a Cubs hat. It’s absurd that he’s not allowed to do so.
I do and do not agree with the HOF making the decision
some really bad decisions by players caused it
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
as has been said...
… there were rumors that Dawson had a clause with the Marlins that he wear a Marlins cap. This didn’t happen because the HoF won’t allow it. So if Andre were given full reign here, he would be wearing a Marlins cap.
And they shouldn't allow something like that.
Just like Boggs shouldn’t have been able to go in as a Ray. And why Edmonds shouldn’t be allowed to go in as a Cub.
But if Dawson wants to be forever enshrined wearing a Cubs cap, who the hell is some HOF official to tell him that he can’t?
and why Winfield should not be in as a Padre
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
says you...
… but its all a matter of degrees. Why not let Dawson go in as a Marlin, if, as you say, its about what Andre wants? What if he honestly wanted to go in w/ a Red Sox cap?
Well there should be some restrictions on it...
Come on, this is pretty logical. I don’t know if you’d define it by years in uniform or a percentage of games played, or what. But something could be setup pretty easily.
I wish...
your post could be greener. Well said and serious kudos, dmlichte!
Guilty as charged....
but not for the things you mentioned….It would have made my suggestion of going to the induction a little bit more appealing if my friends and family knew they were seeing a Cub get in. That’s all. Personally I dont care what hat he wears. But b/c they are not the baseball fan I am…they dont understand that it doesnt matter. They want to wait and see a Cub get in.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
he is still a Cub, that doesnt change
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
That's what I'm trying to tell them
but they insist that they would probably only go to the Hall once and would rather wait for a Cub induction….to them, for what ever reason, it matters.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
buy them Dawson Expo jerseys
maybe that will lhelp
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
lol....they're Cub fans
maybe they’ll change their minds…..is there an amusement park around there? That’ll get the kids on my side.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
Who knows when that will be?
Santo isn’t a lock to make it, and there’s no one else on the horizon likely to go in wearing a Cubs hat, except possibly Lee Smith, who’s probably at least 3 years away if he even gets in to begin with – and might not have a Cubs hat.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
Smith probably won't go in as a Cub, if he does.
Although, he did play longer as a Cub than with anyone else.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's what I'm thinking
If cg47’s family wants to see a “Cub” get inducted, this is quite possibly as good a shot as they’ll have for a long time.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
As good of one
Maddux ain’t going in with a Cubs hat. And the case could be made that Dawson was more of a Cub than Maddux, if you look at overall career success.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
But you didn’t say “Cubs hat”. You said “a Cub”. Maddux would go in under similar circumstances to Dawson, having had more success elsewhere — and obviously, he’s going in as a Brave. That doesn’t mean there won’t be thousands of Cubs fans at his induction.
Right, Jessica? Did you make your reservations yet?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, but
By the reasoning cg47’s family was frustrating her with, Maddux isn’t any more of a Cub than Dawson. And as I said, one could argue by using overall careers that Dawson is more of a Cub than Maddux.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
so we should all be pissed Grace was not voted in
then a Cub without question would be going to the HOF and cg47 would have no problem heading there
SARCASM
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Guess what....I've taken all these points to them and they're getting it!
I just have to find an amusement park :) and I think we have our destination. Thanks to all of you, I’m going to start planning it.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 29, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure about the amusement park
Cooperstown is in the middle of nowhere.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'll find something. I got to get on the net....
we always take our dog on our driving trips so I’ll start with petswelcome.com….it helps plan the route and tells me all the near-by attractions.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 29, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
what if there is a nearby farm
with donkey rides or something like that?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
LOL....in case you're not kidding we're looking for more the roller coaster type thing :)
we can go to water parks that sort of thing. really I can see a trip from Chicago to Cooperstown with stops along the way, that would be fun and end it with Dawson’s induction….I love driving trips.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 29, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
i was kidding
and I have no clue of anything to d near there
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
there has to be something between here and there...and I'll find it
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 29, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Then our work here is done!
Ma’am
{BCB rides off into the sunset}
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 29, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
If it's rollercoasters you want, look no further than Cedar Point, Ohio.
There are bigger amusement parks in the US, but very few – if any – have the quality and quantity of rollercoasters that Cedar Point does. Located on a small peninsula of land sticking out into Lake Erie makes for some very scenic views, although some of them are upside down at times… ;-)
It’s near Sandusky, Ohio, which is about 5 hours drive time from Chicago. Just north of Interstate 90, so it couldn’t be any more on the way to Cooperstown, which btw, is about a 12 hour drive from Chicago, according to Google maps.
It’s been years since I was there, but as far as I know, the Blue Streak rollercoaster is still in operation. I’ve ridden the fancy new ones that go really high and really fast and twist and put you upside down – they are certainly fun and exciting. But if you want terror – sheer terror – ride the Blue Streak. It’s old, it’s wooden, it creaks and groans, and the only thing between you and a splat on the ground is a simple bar that comes down across your thighs. Without a doubt, still my favorite rollercoaster of all time.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yeah....now that's what I'm talkin about!....thanks
I’m planning my trip over the weekend and I’m telling everybody this is where I’m going. take it or leave it. I was thinking Cedar Point (never been) but didnt know if it was way out of the way or what. thanks again.
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 29, 2010 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
still not interested in a nearby farm?
sarcasm
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
I don't get it...
… how would the induction ceremony been any different? When the plaque was unveiled, would everyone have been overcome by a sheer emotion because of the “C” cap on the bronze plaque? As has been said, a Cub did get in… along with an Expo, Marlin and Red Sox.
different? I dont know....
tell me so I can explain it to them…..none of us have ever been to the HOF. Maybe this is my selling point (and the amusement park)….
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Jan 28, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
rec'd
like the ST debates, same with the hat for Dawson in the HOF. Too many are dismissing what was good or bad, for their personal opinion alone
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Andre's Hat
Hawk achieved his Fame in Chicago. The exposure to national audiences, and the local adoration of Cub Fans. 40% of his stats were acomplished in Chicago.
If this was New York, I promise you he would have gone in as a Yankee. Carter went in as an Expo because he played the vast majority of his career in Montreal, plus the Expos still existed at that time. He won the world series with the mets which is why he wanted to go in as a met, but the bulk of his success was with the Expos. If a lifetime 266 ave is success.
Bruce Sutter spent more time with the Cubs,more saves, more wins more games & actually more success, but the HOF said he could pick because he won a WS with STL. OK his choice. Greg Maddox will go in as a Brave. OK, he had his greatest success with the Braves. I agree it should not be the player’s choice. But Dawson achieved his greatest success with the Cubs. He will always be a Cub. The HOF wants to honor him as an Expo to celebrate a failed franchise and a failed baseball city. I’m sure the city of Montreal could c a r e l e s s.
This is just another example of how detatched the HOF is from real life. It took Dawson 9 elections to get in? Did he get better with each election? Either he is a Hall of Famer or He isn’t, his stats don’t get better with age! This whole election procedure is really a mess.
Blyleven & Of Course SANTO deserve. Reggie a Yankee, Please. Clemens, that will be a good one, is McGuire a Cardinal? Or do we just put a Medical Symbol on their hats for “Medically Enhanced Product”. Ballhawk is on the money!!
RS 10
Haha...
…I wouldn’t mind the White Sox… of heck, even the Red Sox since they had a handshake agreement! lol
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
and if BCB ever gets around to having its own Hall of Fame...
…and should you be elected, I hope you go in as a Ferengi. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I hope he goes in as a Romulan.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 30, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
For those who think nobody in Montreal cares about the Expos
Here’s the lead story on the Montreal Gazette’s sports Web page today.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Dawson+enter+hall+Expo+report/2490410/story.html
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:08 PM CST reply actions
I would love to know who honestly thought
it was OK to have a team logo be a penis
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
And, if you can read French,
here’s the story from La Presse.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
And, you must admit,
“Temple de la renommée” sounds more regal than “hall of fame.”
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
I think they should officially change it to that
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Hockey???????
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
You've heard of
the Montreal Canadiens, no?
Also, the Montreal Alouettes won the CFL Grey Cup this season.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
eh, they are pretty mediocre this year
so I could see a baseball article such as this be pushed to front page
Start Sean Marshall!!
Or it was pushed to the front page
because a former Expo was being inducted into the Hall of Fame……………nah, that can’t be it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Even when the Habs are mediocre
they’re still a huge deal in Montreal.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
Other hat issues
McGwire — Not going in at all, but if he does, he should be a Cardinal
Clemens – Red Sox
Bonds – Giants
Randy Johnson – Diamondbacks
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
McGwire and Dawson are similar when it comes to teams
Both played on teams where they gained their fame (St. Louis and Chicago), but had longer tenures and better seasons at a smaller market team (Oakland and Montreal)
Start Sean Marshall!!
I would have to say...
…It would probably be a good if they announce Hawk as “The Greatest Expo Player Ever.”
My vote's for Oil Can Boyd for that honor
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
and in all seriousness, Dennis Martinez would have to be a strong contender for that title
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
looking at pitching leaders, Dennis Martinez was one of the better pitchers in that franchise
But I agree, Raines or Vlad probably beats him out
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
What, no love for
Coco Laboy or F.P. Santangelo?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
F.P. Santangelo was a guess hitting hack!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I think you're confusing him
with Boots Day.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 27, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
I thought I knew every obscure Expo
but that’s a new one, Al.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 29, 2010 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
Jeff Fassero
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Mitch Webster
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Bombo Rivera
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
While my favorite was Hawk better as an expo than -
Vlad, Carter, Walker, Tim Raines, Randy Johnson, Moises Alou – depends on whether it’s what they did there or throughout their career. I’d say Vlad for there and Johnson for career.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Randy Johnson for career?
That makes no sense. Johnson played in 11 games as an Expo. That’d be like putting him in the HoF as an Expo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think N Oakley means...
…if you look only at the time spent as an Expo, Vlad is the choice. But if you look at the entire career of anyone who’s ever been an Expo (even if only for 1 game), Johnson is the choice.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
yeah, but we're talking about the greatest Expo player ever
it’s doubtful anyone would EVER refer to Johnson that way, because his time there was so short
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
… baseball-reference.com, which conveniently lists all the Expos records with the Nats franchise (as it should be), says… probably not.
Here are the franchise all-time leaders.
Looks like you’d have to vote for Tim Raines or Vlad Guerrero for that title.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Montreal
The Canadians lost last nite, thus the Dawson story. Doesn’t Montreal have a WNBA team? Where are the Allowettes?
RS 10
Wow
This is the craziest stuff I’ve ever seen here lately. Andre Dawson is somehow financially damaged because he is going in as an Expo and lots of Cubs fans will now stay home because of this decision?
Lots of whining and stomping of feet here.
Don't forget that the Hall is engaged in a horrible conspiracy aimed
at CHANGING the very history of the game
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Jan 27, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Wow..
You really are a stupid piece of trash because I didn’t say ANYTHING like that.
You are worthless human being. Thanks for making that known without doubt now.
by TheHawkRules on Jan 27, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
oh snap
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees when we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Jan 27, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of the last Friday game in 2003
And all the whiners bitching and moaning that the rainout would be made up as a traditional DH instead of day-night….
People were convinced the TribCo had screwed them over. Yeah, they lost millions on having only one gate, but it was all about screwing over the fans.
People can get very irrational and whiny when they don’t get what they want.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 27, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
The right decision
Andre Dawson came up an Expo and starred there for 11 seasons. He was also part of some very solid Montreal clubs.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
The Wrong Decision
Nobody is questioning his accomplishments in Montreal, Duh
His accomplishments & notability came in Chicago. Montreal didn’t know what they had, they don’t care about Baseball. Its a great city, but it revolves around the Montreal Canadians not baseball, its a Hockey City.
Chicago knew what they had, respected & acknowledged daily, the class & talent of Andre Dawson. Chicago is a Chicago Cubs City! We know Baseball. Go Hawks
RS 10
Just to stir up trouble, Hawk would be wearing a Cub cap if
he’d played 93 and 94 for the Cubs and not the Red Sox. Those two more years probably would have tilted the vote. Just sayin.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Agreed
Jessica, we need another Himes effigy – stat!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 28, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
class act
wanting to go in as a cub. i think the rays offered canseco 50 grand to go in as a ray if elected .thats why the hall does not let the player pick anymore. would have turned into a highest bidder thing.
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