Depth
by DGU on Jan 27, 2010 9:12 AM CST
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Last year when Aramis went down, the Cubs flailed at finding a replacement. We had brought Corey Koskie to camp, but he was unable to overcome his post-concussion problems. That left us with Bobby Scales, Mike Fontenot, and eventually Ryan Freel and Jake Fox. Lack of depth didn't kill us, but it sure looked ugly and probably added to the demoralization in the clubhouse.
With the additions of Xavier Nady and Chad Tracy, the Cubs have added two corner guys who have posted OPSs over .850. Sure, they may not ever do that again, but they have upside and ability. Health is their big question mark. The team's depth chart now looks a lot stronger at most positions. If Soriano goes down, Nady can move to full-time work. If Byrd goes down, the Cubs can split time between Dome and Fuld in CF. If Dome goes down, Tracy may be able to try RF again, or Nady. If Aramis goes down, we're not committed to moving Baker off 2B, but can go to Tracy. At 2B we have two guys who have shown exceptional bats in the past.
No, I do not expect all of Nady, Tracy, Baker, and Fontenot to work out. But that's just the thing - now they don't need to. They shouldn't ALL falter. That's the beauty of depth.
The one place we do not have depth is SS. An injury to Theriot leads to Andres Blanco and the temptation to call up Castro too soon. Perhaps Darwin Barney will show enough that he would get the first crack, but the Cubs are already talking about Castro in ways that suggest he might get rushed.
It's really astounding how this club has consistently cleared plausible competition away from Theriot at SS, a strategy that does not encourage excellence. Given that projections expect our starting SS to be the worst hitter on the squad, and given that it is possible that both our 2B flop, here's to hoping Jim Hendry adds one more depth piece to upgrade Andres Blanco.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Huh?
Andres Blanco is more than satisfactory at SS for a few weeks, if needed. Anything past that, and you wouldn’t call up Castro — starting the arbitration clock early, and rushing a prospect — but look to trade for help.
Really, are we going to have conversations about backing up the backup? Say it with me; Ryan Theriot is our quarterback shortstop. Let it go.
What do you expect out of Blanco?
I tend to think his defense is overrated and his bat non-existent. If you feel otherwise, that may explain much of our difference of opinion. I think Blanco is ok as a 25th man on the roster emergency backup, but to quote you – this is the Cubs, don’t we deserve better?
I hope you’re right that the Cubs wouldn’t start Castro’s clock early, but I remember what happened with Pie, and I’m listening to the Cubs whisper that Castro could even make the club this year…
Finally, this isn’t about backing up the backup – this is about having a guy who could push Theriot at SS, rest Theriot at SS, and be ready to step in at 2B, should both Baker and Fontenot falter.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Yes, we deserve better
but what’s done is done. I’ve a shortstop that the manager likes, making under $2 million annually for now, and a succession path in place with a prospect that I may use as early as 2010. Not to mention that I think Blanco has a better glove than I think you give him credit for. Why would a GM spend assets of any kind at this point for what is essentially a marginal, short-term upgrade?
This is like 15th on the Cubs to-do list, as well it should be. Let it go.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 27, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
And, Blanco's bat did seem to improve over time last year.
He’ll never be a great hitter, but he’s certainly decent enough for a backup role.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wow.
I didn’t realize how well Blanco hit in the second half. Of course it’s all small samples, and of course I hope I’m wrong on Blanco, but a .300 OBP / sub .380 SLG has to come with stellar defense in my view, and I’m not convinced he’s got that.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
66 major-league starts at SS
With a UZR/150 of 12.4 to show for it. Sure, I’d like to see more than 66 starts, but he’s a backup making league minimum – what do you expect?
Right.
Further, Blanco might get, what, 25-30 starts? We can live with that, presuming his glove is what it appears to be.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly
You can’t have all stars at every position and you can’t have starters as your back ups. Blanco is an excellent back up and we don’t need more
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Jan 27, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
And....
Blanco can also probably fill in every now and then at 2B if necessary. Usually, middle infielders like him who are more defensive-minded players can make the jump between SS and 2B if they need to. No doubt, shortstop is where they will put him most often, but in a pinch, it could be done. Overall, though, Blanco will back up SS and Fontenot will back up 2B. They are certainly not stars, but then again, most backups aren’t; that’s why they’re backups.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
UZR isn't effective in that small of a sample
and last year he was negative in UZR.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
The consensus on BCB is that Reed Johnson is a good fielding CF
and that we KNOW is wrong, because we have a good sample for UZR to look at.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
It's not that UZR isn't effective
It’s that, like all defensive statistics, you need more data to make them more informative. A full season of defensive statistics is equal to about 100 games of offensive information (although that depends somewhat on position, as well: a shortstop is going to have more defensive data than a left-fielder). While his UZR wasn’t good last year, I’m going to bet that he is a very good, but not outstanding, defensive player.
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
I try to adhere to the "1,000 innings per season" sample size rule with UZR.
Is that reasonable?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
I can see your perspective.
Let me just ask this – how confident are you one of Baker/Fontenot will manage to establish himself this year? For me this isn’t just about SS, but also about adding additional 2B depth.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Very...
I’d prefer Baker in a different role, but I expect him to be solid, if unspectacular in it.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 27, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
I thought I was one of the most pro-Baker/Fontenot here.
But I still have doubts.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
What competition at SS have the Cubs cleared away?
Not sure who or when you thought the Cubs cleared competition away from SS. At least not any more than other starting positions over the last 3 years. And definitely not internally.
I think the Cubs have had more pressing positions to improve than SS. And the team had been for sale for the last 3-4 years.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 27, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
The Cubs cleared away Izturis and Cedeno.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
You mean the
Cesar Izturis who has a career .298 OBP? And the Ronny Cedeno with the career .280 OBP?
Both of those guys had enough chances to hold down the starting job at SS. Neither did. They cleared themselves away.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 27, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
Because they were bad.
First Izturis, then Cedeno, then Miles, and now Blanco. SS depth clearly hasn’t been a concern to the organization, which is peculiar considering how many second basemen they like to carry.
Overstatement
Going into 2008, Baseball America was still believing in Cedeno over Theriot. Sure, Cedeno flopped, but the scouting consensus was viewing things differently going into the season. Depending on how you value baserunning and defense, Theriot and Izturis could be seen as equally valuable in 2008. Check this analysis which saw them as equal. If you buy that analysis, and you buy that the 2008 team needed better defense, better baserunning, and more LH bats, the removal of Izturis becomes very questionable.
But I’m not sure I buy that and this isn’t my main point anyway. It’s a side issue that’s been too distracting.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Fair enough on Izturis
As for the other three, they were/are all greater risks than necessary, especially considering each was the only back up for a player who while maybe not bad, is not an all star either.
Not, that's not right at all
Izturis would not have helped the Cubs in 2008 as a left-handed bat. In 2008, Izturis, a switch-hitter had a .296 OBP vs. right-handed pitching. Against right-handers, Theriot has a 379 OBP in 2008.
The Cubs didn’t need more LH bats in 2008. They needed the LH bats they had to produce in the playoffs – Fukudome, Edmonds, Fontenot.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 27, 2010 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
The point is that Izturis
brings the same amount of value to the table if you account for the total player, including his low OBP – and the 2008 club was fine on OBP-based offense. It lacked smart base-running and solid up-the-middle defense (although Fontenot’s d was very good in ’08). And it was Lou who thought the Cubs lacked these things in his 2008 post-morterm.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
think you're reaching here...
if Izturis was similar or comparable and also “older/more expensive” then the Cubs opted correctly
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
good point about expense
And in the end, I don’t totally buy into a number of these things. But, I’d rather have spent the limited funds on Izturis if it could have avoided some of the other moves we made in 2008 to get more LH.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
but
izturis wasn’t even with the club at the end of 2007 and the overreaction for a need to get LH really came in 2009 not 08 (unless the Edmonds/Fukudome moves are what you’re referencing)
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
the LH bat thing started at the beginning of 2008
but this is all a big sidetrack now from the question of depth.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
I'm not buying it
This is too much revisionist history for me. I just can’t go back and swap out Theriot batting mostly 1-2 in 2008 for Izturis batting mostly 7-8-9 (albeit for LaRussa in STL).
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
It's not about the bat.
It’s about the total player.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
I understand that
The Cubs won 97 games in 2008 and won the division by 7.5 games. But it doesn’t matter because the Cubs lost 3 straight in the playoffs. I doubt Izturis changes that to the positive.
I doubt having Izturis in 2007 and 2008 would have kept the Cubs from trying to get more LH-ed over the last 2 years. He would need to be able to hit as a LH-er and he hasn’t shown that he can. And if he’s a better baserunner, so what if he can’t get on-base to start with.
I can understand a team valuing Izturis for his defense, but that team would need to emphasize superior defense more across multiple players, not just SS and 2B.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I'm in favor of
finding out in March what Darwin Barney looks like. Realistically, he has about a 2-3 year window with the Cubs. If he isn’t ready for backup duty (I think he might be, I could be wrong), he could limit the need to start the arbitration clock on Castro (who we ought to see in September anyway).
If he isn’t close, we might consider him trade bait in June along with some of our other mid-level prospects (of which we have a plethora).
completely agree
with this plan
i think you bring up a good point DGU in terms of improving club depth and the nady/tracy signings yesterday were very good starts, but i think a capable backup MI type is the kind of guy that are fairly available. Look how many times Felipe Lopez has changed organizations or how long it takes Orlando Hudson to sign every offseason. I’m not the biggest Theriot fan in the world but he’s the best option at SS (when compared to whats readily available) and he costs nothing extra
its a cross that bridge when/if it comes type problem, in my opinion. and until then hope a guy like Barney proves to be the backup now and a potential stop-gap to Castro. From the sounds of Bruce Levine’s chat on .com today he seems to think the Cubs are going to be uber aggressive with Castro and start him at SS opening day. This scares me…
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
Start him at the ML level?
If so, this is precisely what I was afraid of. Granted, it may work out, but why rush him like this?
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
thats what levine suggested
in the chat today
its pretty startling…. the rushing thing is one thing to be concerned about but even if you had faith he was ready why not delay the arb clock by holding him back 2 months and letting him tear up AA and AAA
hopefully levine is off-base
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Good point about the arb clock
I mean between Fontenot, Theriot, and Baker – they should get 2 months to see if they can cut it before throwing Castro in – and that’s assuming you think Castro’s ready, which is a huge thing to decide.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Wait, Levine was saying...
…the Cubs may start Castro at SS on Opening Day 2010?!
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
here's the quote
it was actually in a chat yesterday, i just read the transcript today
http://espn.go.com/chicago/chat/_/id/30510/espnchicago-mlb-chat
Bruce Levine
(1:37 PM)
This is the answer for the previous question: Hudson still is asking something like $8M per year. I’d put my money on Theriot being the starting 2b on Opening Day, with a good shot for Castro to make the team out of spring training.
I took “make the team” to be starting SS, since he referenced Theriot at 2b
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
While I don't think Castro on Openign Day is a good idea
I would think bringing him up to be a backup is an even worse one. He’s got to get his innings in. I’d rather see that be in the minors for all of 2010. He’s only 19 for crissake.
by jerry morales rules on Jan 27, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
there's no way
they’d bring him up just to be a back up and start his arb clock unnecessarily
even the Cubs aren’t stupid enough to do that… oh right… we did that with Pie
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Well
Rec’d for giving us the information, at least.
If Theriot is the starting 2B, I’d say we see Chad Tracy beat Mike Fontenot for the bench spot, with Fontenot traded.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Wow, that really seems like it would be rushing Castro.
But maybe I’m just overly cautious.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
you're not being cautious
even if its not rushing him there’s absolutely no harm in letting him play at AA and AAA for the first two months prevent his arb clock from ticking and getting to have him an extra year
having him make the club out of spring training leaves little upside and a whole lot of downside to the decision
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
Makes sense.
Off the top of my head, and I’m no expert in these things, I think I’d like to see Castro start in AA, perhaps get promoted to Triple A midseason and then get a Sept. callup (that doesn’t start the arb clock, does it?). Then the Cubs could give him a serious look for a starting job in 2011, if they must.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
i think that's most
people’s ideal plans
if Castro pushes the timetable up by destroying AA/AAA then I think we’d have to reevaluate midseason, but even the timetable you suggest is a tad aggressive (since he hasn’t had a fullseason above AA) but i think its the type of aggressive promotion you expect with a talent like his
the opening day in 2010 level of aggressive promotion seems beyond absurd
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what Keith Law said today about Castro
Dan (Louisville, KY)
Bruce Levine suggested the Cubs might start Castro at SS this year. How do you think Castro would do if they tried this?
Klaw (1:51 PM)
It wouldn’t shock me if he held his own, but I think a half-year to a year in the high minors would do him a lot of good.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
yeah
and Law LOVES Castro, so I take that as Law thinking it would be a pretty poor idea. Though Castro might be able to handle it
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
jeebus christ no
castro shouldnt start anywhere but AA or AAA (AAA might be pushing it)
by jesus christos on Jan 27, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
Thou shalt not take your own name in vain!
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jan 27, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions
What the Ryno?!
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
I'm interested to see how Barney does in ST
I don’t see the Cubs finding a backup SS outside of the organization, and like DGU, I’m bullish on Blanco’s ability with the bat, so I’m left just hoping Darwin can open some eyes.
Outside of catcher, where teams rarely have more than one backup, SS is the only position where there is going to be only one other guy who can play the position. I understand the reasoning behind that; I just wish that the backup was a better player than Andres Blanco.
Xavier Nady also can give Derek Lee a day off if needed, while still providing some power in the lineup.
I agree that we don’t have depth at the SS position, but where do you get the projection that Theriot is to be our worst hitter? In terms of OPS, maybe and probably, but in terms of avg and obp, I don’t get where you are coming from.
That's because this is yet...
another thinly veiled “Ryan Theriot sucks” thread. Enjoy.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 27, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Oh pshaw
My dislike of Theriot is no secret, but this is not about that.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Overall bat - including AVG/OBP/SLG
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
that's a flawed view though...
Theriot is a singles hitter. He was actually 6th in MLB last year for singles. Lead all MLB shortstops in sacrifice hits. I don’t understand what you are complaining about or what kind of player you think the Cubs should pick up to fill in the so called void at the shortstop position
I'm talking about depth.
I’m glad for the depth we have behind every other player on the depth chart except Theriot. What happens if Theriot is out for more than two weeks?
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Then the Cubs look to acquire someone.
They don’t need to do that now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think one thing that hurt Theriot a little bit last year....
was that he kind of got away from his patented, “hit the ball the other way” philosophy. In ‘07 and ’08, he would slap the ball through the right side over and over again for base hits. Last year, he tried to pick up the offensive slack a little bit when the injuries started, hit a few home runs, and suddenly everyone thinks he’s turning into Ryne Sandberg, who started hitting for power in his third year in the Majors and changed him into a completely different player. Overall, that’s not Theriot’s game, and it hurt him a little as time went along and pitchers adjusted to it. With him hitting at the top of the order this year, I don’t think you’re going to see that. He’s going to go back to his natural strength, and stick to being a singles, doubles, and (hopefully) walks kind of hitter.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
It will be interesting to see what Rudy does with Riot.
Lou was the one who told Theriot to try and add power and pull the ball more.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Tracy?
Didn’t realize he had been signed. If Nady passes his physical, and both rebound from their injuries, these are two excellent signings. If Tracy truly was signed to a minor league deal, this really provides some quality veteran depth. I wasn’t thrilled w/ the Byrd signing, but like Hendry’s offseason overall.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will
Theriot may not be blowing our minds in 2010
But he’s certainly servicable as long as Lou does not try and make him lead off! IF he goes down, Blanco is more than capable of covering for a couple of weeks. If Theriot goes down with a major injury, all reports indicate that Barney is more than ready to step up to the big league level as a utility infielder – that would be a solid option as well.
I don’t think it’s worth giving anything up to cover a potential issue when we have a couple of potential fixes in our system.
"Rushing" a player
I don’t buy into the logic that players are adversely affected by being “rushed” to the majors. Players can either play or they can’t, it’s that simple. Corey Patterson didn’t work out not because he was “rushed” but rather, because he wasn’t a star major league player at any time. He’s still playing but his major league success was only a reflection of what his actual ability turned out to be. Same with Felix Pie, same with countless other guys who have been deemed as “rushed”.
Starlin Castro may be a solid major leaguer, he may be a star, or, perhaps he never sniffs 500 AB’s at the major league level. No matter how it turns out, it won’t be because he was “rushed” to the majors. Keep in mind that these guys have played far more baseball in their young lifetimes than anything else that they’ve done. They play year-round, at high levels and their ultimate measuring stick is MLB. If they don’t live up to the expectations based on their performance at lower levels, it’s only because they weren’t MLB stars in the first place…not because they were “rushed”.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
I could not agree less
You are saying that someone who is 19 who has only had a year and a half of professional tutoring is going to be ready to step into a game where pitchers are throwing pitches these kids have never seen before as long as he has the skill level?? I am all for high school sports, but you have to realize the people coaching at that level are NOT professionals, they may have the most skilled kid in the world, but may not know how to maximize their talent.
This kid is 19, and he needs to learn to swing properly, get the proper footwork, and build the confidence to know he can succeed, as baseball is just as mental as it is physical. You cannot throw someone into a pressure situation without years of proper training and say if they’re truly a star they will succeed – you simply cant.
How many 19 and 20 year olds do you see on MLB rosters?
Andruw Jones and Alex Rodriguez are two that come to mind in recent memory. However, they are the exception not the rule.
Rick Porcello
Not that I disagree with you, he’s just a more recent example. I’m all for keeping Castro in the minors this year (unless he forces the issue by batting .350/.420/.470 in AA/AAA, in which case I’m sure we’d all agree the Cubs need to find a spot for him).
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
Where to start?
Of course a player can be rushed up to the big leagues too soon, to suggest otherwise is simply absurd. Just because a player has the physical skills to be a big leaguer eventually, does not mean he is ready at age 19 or 20. Just about all players need some time working their way through the minors, developing and maturing.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 27, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
Personally, I blame Theriot if
10. My Old Style is warm
9. The wind is blowing in at Wrigley in July
8. Soto eats too many tacos
7. The Cubs institute “Venezuela Night” and invite both Ozzie Guillen and Hugo Chavez.
6. Nady has Tommy John surgery on his Left arm
5. Aramis Ramirez has to dive to his right for a ball down the line
4. Theriot’s name appears anywhere above 8th on the lineup card
3. Walks by Carlos Marmol
2. The Triangle Building does not pass City of Chicago building inspections
1. The lack of Kohler urinals in the men’s bathrooms at Wrigley.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 27, 2010 10:48 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
If Marmol is in the dugout
he will have to walk by him. That is a little unreasonable to blame him by simply walking by him.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 27, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Well....
I blame anyone and everyone if my Old Style is warm. I mean, that’s just unacceptable, and someone will pay! If not Theriot, then someone. Maybe Ryan Dempster; could be another one of his pranks.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
I get what you're saying.
To be honest, I have serious concerns about Ryan Theriot’s offensive production – especially as Lou will almost certainly put him at the top of the lineup. But I don’t see how or where the Cubs are going to improve on the Threriot-Blanco-Barney-Castro (am I forgetting anyone?) depth at shortstop right now. If Hendry could trade Sean Marshall for, say, Macier Izturis, should he? Absolutely. But I’m not sure how the Angels would feel about such a deal or what else they’d want.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
One of the issues here
is that there’s no one on the free agent market, so you’d have to look for a trade option. And if the Cubs really think Castro is ready now, then there’s no point at all. Then Theriot’s the depth.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
against LHP
there really isn’t an option the Cubs are going to put at the top of the order that’s better, so I think people should prepare to see Theriot as the leadoff man against LHP
Against RHP, he’ll likely bat 8th with Kosuke leading off (at least that’s my hope…)
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
IIRC, at the convention...
…Lou said Kosuke and Theriot would bat one and two. I think (hope?) he’ll bat Kosuke leadoff vs. RHP with Theriot batting second, and Theriot batting leadoff vs. LHP (not sure who will bat second with Kosuke on the bench).
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
ahhh...
i was in singapore during cubs convention week and didn’t read much then
thanks for the tidbit
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
you are revoking his sarcasm?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Nady?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 27, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, if he's hitting well.
Or I actually see Byrd as potentially a good choice for batting second, though I know Lou seems to be looking at him as an RBI guy.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
ok please explain...how could tracy or hoffpauir make the roster...they now have 13 position playrs
fontenot
baker
blanco
theriot
lee
ramirez
soriano
fukudome
fuld
byrd
nady
soto
hill
or does this mean fuld is out of a job? or is lou going with only 11 pitchers at last?
I suspect that Hoffpauir
and Fontenot will be practicing the baseball version of shuttle diplomacy this summer.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 27, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
Does Fonty have an option?
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Fontenot has an option but he...
…"must clear Optional Assignment Waivers before [he] can be optioned to the minors. " Also, “Mike Fontenot…[has] accrued less than three years of MLB service time, but [has] been outrighted previously in [his] career, so therefore [he has] the right to decline an Outright Assignment to the minors and become a free-agent should the Cubs outright [him] to the minors.”
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
thanks
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
The season's not starting tomorrow
and I’m betting that one of the guys on that list will be headed out of town in exchange for a relief pitcher.
I think the Cubs probably have more than enough viable bullpen options on the ML roster and in AAA…but that’s just me.
http://www.fivetoolfans.com
DGU good thoughts
Building a roster is a four legged effort….there is the payroll and all that goes into that, the starters, pitching and the bench or depth.
You are correct a player like Theriot who does not have competition hanging over his head is not good. There are players out there for $1-2M who could that and also provide 2B back up who might suit that issue.
That said Nady has a tremendous upside and with Tracy signing it also covers the issue of not taxing his arm. As I can see the bench will be
Tracy (L)
Nady®
Fontenot (L) or Baker®
K Hill (S)
Fuld (L)
The better solution would be for the Cubs to trade for Macier Izturis for platoon/back up at SS or supplant Theriot all together.
Nady & Tracy and either Fonty or Baker provide pop off the bench, while they also can be starters for a short period of time if the Cubs are assembling a playoff roster. The thing is this roster of the above four plus Fuld allows Piniella to have multiple combination of double switches in late innings…
He could bring in Tracy Nady to pinch hit and remove in LF, or pinch hit for the pitcher and switch in Baker or Fontenot, by having Fukudome or Byrd on the field the Cubs can switch OF’s.
Now let us see what else happens, I sure would like another SS
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Yep and yep
and yep again that Maicer Izturis is like my holy graal of backup IFs. I’m not hesitant to mention his name since I’ve mentioned him so often. If people were really on their DGU-critic games they’d be calling this another thinly veiled post campaigning for the greater Izturis.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
…I’d definitely be excited to see Macier Izturis join the Cubs. Unfortunately, it doesn’t really seem like Hendry is headed in this direction.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
they'd have to acquire him via trade
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=307653
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
that's the thing
we don’t know Hendry hasn’t tried. The Angels appear to like Maicer well enough.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
You've probably said this before...
…but what would your best trade package be?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Hm
Good question; I kind of hope you could do something as simple as Sean Marshall for him.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
i just think
the Angels value Macier more than most, he gets 300 ABs almost every year and has seemingly gotten opportunities over Wood, Kendrick, etc
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 28, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
give 'em Scales as well?
:P
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 28, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
The Angels signed Macier to a 3 year deal
I can’t even think of the last team to sign a player to a 3-year deal and then trade him before the first year of that deal.
Time to move on.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
I posted the FanShot
so we can all mourn there.
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 28, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I'm more concerned with 2b and that they'll
get little out of Fontenot. I wouldn’t mind Adam Kennedy for cheap. I have a feeling that Baker will get lots of starts due to other’s injuries.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Didn't Kennedy already sign with someone?
In any case, Blanco can do just as much as Kennedy for less money.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fontenot isn't really being looked at as the starting second baseman.
If anything, Baker is.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
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