Keith Law's Organizational Rankings
Cubs are at #7... That is by far the highest I have seen them ranked. his assesment was as follows
"They've hit on several top draft picks under scouting director Tim Wilken as well as a couple of later-round finds, but the system is led by 19-year-old Dominican shortstop Starlin Castro, who is already in Double-A. "
Awesome to get the hype
about 2 years ago
fischisgod
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goes to show
how different these opinions can be and how inexact a science prospects are
For BA, Philadelphia ranks in the top 5
For Keith Law, Philadelphia ranks 24th
For BA, SF Ranks in the Top 5
For Keith Law, SF Ranks 20th
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 11:12 AM CST reply actions
i really dont understand why BA has san fran so high
if bumgarners velo is truly down very meh
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
i'm wondering
if BA is including Angel Villalona in the rankings? does anyone know? My guess is Law isn’t based on the way Law’s talked about it being unlikely he ever gets a work VISA again
p.s. only 6 more days (your sig line)
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
So, did they reboot time?
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
don't get me started....
i’m rewatching season 5 now to try to get my theories lined up and fresh
i sure hope they didn’t reboot time if you mean all the way like back to on 815 or something
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
I was wondering if they get rebooted back
to the moments when Jacob touches them.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
interesting idea
but if that were the case, i’d expect that to be the finale of the whole thing.
So I’m not sure that can be it
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
This show is so damn frustrating in that regards
And yet I cannot look away
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Embrace it. Love it. Watch it.
Your frustration is a sacrifice the Island demanded. Six more days and we get to see what came after the screen turned white.
Oh man.
I can’t freakin’ wait. I have no idea what’s going to happen, but I thought I heard the name of the premiere was LAX. Which of course could mean about a thousand different things.
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My crazy theory which Will Be Wrong
Jacob is the Big Bad Guy.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Big Bad Guy? Also, POTENTIAL SPOILERS for anyone who isn't caught up thru S5:
My only theory (which I don’t even think is that crazy/unique to me) is that Jacob’s nemesis (the man in black, whatever you call him) is the smoke monster/fake Locke/all the other dead people you see on the island/Alex when Ben goes to be judged at the temple. You’ll notice that when Flocke and Ben go to the temple, right after Flocke disappears from sight, the smoke monster/Alex appear in front of Ben.
I could probably talk LOST nonstop until next Tuesday. We might have to make an OT thread for immediate discussion after the episode airs (although there are clearly LOST forums everywhere as well).
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I think you might be right about that.
By “Big Bad Guy” I mean that the show seemed to suggest – as Locke had put it back in season one – that there was two sides, b & w, good and evil, etc. And the finale also seemed to paint Jacob as a good guy, but I’m not so sure. For example, we know Sawyer came to the island because he couldn’t give up his desire for revenge against the first Sawyer. In the FB of the finale, Sawyer received advice to let it go after his pen didn’t work. Well, Jacob came and gave Sawyer a pen, which allowed him to write that letter.
I could go on, so maybe an OT thread is necessary!
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
I could buy this
Maybe the smoke monster just is what it is though.. A smoke monster? But it is curious we have never met the Man in black (smokey is black as well) before but we have heard of Jacob.
I also dont think Jacob is necesarrily a good guy either
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
Agreed:
I also dont think Jacob is necesarrily a good guy either
The entire dichotomy of good/evil in LOST is so tough to get a handle on. Knowing who the ‘good guys’ are is near impossible.
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Bleah
Never watched a second of Lost. I got my fill of annoyingly mysterious TV shows with The X-Files.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jan 30, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
I feel so satisfied that my 'theory' was right.
Man, what an episode last night.
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I'm watching this show for the first time
just started season 2.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 27, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
Oo oo - let me spoil it for you -
Michelle Rodriguez is annoying.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
my wife
has already made that quite clear. I thought she was going to walk out of Avatar.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 27, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
no no
we LIKED Avatar. A lot.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 28, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
But that girl was SSSSOOOO annoying!!
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
You have 6 days to do 3 seasons.
Determination, Netflix and a lot of caffeine and you’ll be ready for next Tuesday.
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I like Law's rankings on those two teams much better
SF’s system drops off fast, IMO. I think Thomas Neal is getting overhyped. Philly’s is solid, perhaps better than 24th, but losing 2 potential top 20 guys and filling it in with 2 guys that are in the mid-back end of the top 100 makes it hard for me to see them as top 5 status.
Keith Law
generally isn’t high on the Cubs way of doing things, but he did work with Tim Wilken in Toronto and has always spoken highly of him (unlike JP Riccardi, whom he has not spoken highly of.)
I honestly think that’s a little high. I’d go with something between this and BA’s #15. Maybe 10 or 11. I’m not sure I would rank us above the Reds with the Chapman signing (I also love the Leaker.)
But it’s just another sign our farm system is on the upswing.
Law LOVES Castro
and he highly values high-end “up the middle prospects”. This is consistent with Wilken’s philosophy on focusing the draft on up the middle guys
I think this is part of the reason we’re so high in his ranking
Personally, I like Law the best of all the prospect guys/sites, so I’m pretty excited by this
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 27, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
I think you've got that off by a bit
I agree with Dartmouth here – Law has been rather positive about our arms and he loves up-the-middle talent.
As for the Reds system, it drops off after the top 4. The top 4 of Chapman/Alonso/Frazier/Leake is fairly solid (although I think Leake is more a mid-rotation arm and I think Frazier might be more a decent starter/great backup than a good starter). After that, it’s iffy guys, toolsheds, raw upside arms, high floor guys (Maloney). A guy like Cozart is perhaps a bit underrated. Like the Brewers, it could be a great system in a year, depending on how their young upside guys progress, but I believe the Cubs top shelf is as good if not better, and that we have more depth. Furthermore, Chapman has mixed reports, and many view Alonso as a solid 1st base prospect, but perhaps not great (due to approach – certainly some disagree and think he has a higher ceiling).
I still rank the NL Central (systems) as
1. Cubs
2. Pirates
3. Reds
4. Brewers
5 Astros
6. Cardinals
I like Alonso
but the biggest issue with him is that I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as Joey Votto, and that’s a problem for the Reds. They’ll have to deal him. It’ll be tricky getting full value for him.
I was referring to Law’s attitude towards the Cubs in general—he blasted the Byrd signing and the Bradley trade, for example. He really didn’t like the Brett Jackson drafting at the time, although we might find out tomorrow if he’s changed his mind. But as I said, he worked with Tim Wilken in the Blue Jay organization and has a lot of respect for him.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
I don't consider that a huge problem
Both Votto and Alonso have enough athleticism to slide over to LF if need be. Furthermore, if Yonder shows that his raw power can translate, they’ll be able to find a deal for him. The problem is, I’m not sold that, despite Yonder’s plus raw power, that his approach will allow for that plus raw power to show itself.
Alonso
didn’t even play the outfield in high school, let alone at Miami. He’d be Greg Luzinski out there.
Votto could probably handle the move to left field, but I doubt he’d be any better than mediocre. Plus, I’m not a big believer in moving your best player around to accommodate a prospect. Votto has earned the first base job.
Now what the Reds might do is trade Votto before he gets too expensive and install Alonso at first. They’d probably get a ton for Votto—especially if they dealt him next off-season, when he’s still three years away from free agency.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 27, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions
THAT
means more to me than the #7. You gotta win in the NL before you can win it all
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Rankings for other NL Central teams
No. 10 Cincinnati
No. 18 Pittsburgh
No. 26 Milwaukee
No. 28 Houston
No. 29 St. Louis
That list ought to make Cub fans even happier. That the White Sox ranked at #30 is just a bonus. (To be fair to the White Sox, they’d rank higher if Gordon Beckham were still in the minors.)
Definitely
Nice to see the Cards and Pale-hose bringing up the back end of the league.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Well
I’m sure DrCrawdad & larry would disagree and I’d have to agree with them. With Flowers, Hudson & Mitchell leading the way, the Cards & Stros can’t compete with their top level talent.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Jan 30, 2010 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
a case can be made that the astros top level is equal
it comes down to how you balance potential in the rankings, but Mier plays a more valuable position than Mitchell, Castro is a far safer catcher than Flowers, and Hudson’s potential is debatable. I’m actually a fan of Hudson and I think he has an outside chance to be a decent 2, solid 3, but there have been reports that place Hudson as a 4/5 starter in the bigs (maybe it was Law, I don’t recall). After the top tier for both teams, the rest of the systems are both pretty bad.
More Law
Law came out with his top 100 Prospects today.
Cubs on the list:
Starlin Castro #12
Josh Vitters #30 (Law has always been a big Vitters fan)
Jay Jackson #50
Andrew Cashner #79
from the chat
Mark (Chicago)
Brett Jackson make the list next year?
Klaw (1:29 PM)
If he does in 2010 what he did in 2009 in pro ball, yes. I left him off because I’m not going to completely ignore what he did before he was drafted in favor of a half-season or so of pro ABs.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
also from the chat
Mike (Niles, IL)
Keith, why focus on questions like why didn’t “X” make the list? How about a question about your evaluation process. How do you determine a player like Starlin Castro projects for power?
Klaw (1:38 PM)
From his swing, his body, and the way the ball comes off his bat (hint: really freaking well).
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
still chatting
Dee (Washington D.C)
Is Josh Vitters hit tool strong enough to compensate for his inability to take a walk? Is he the rare “bad ball hitter” a la Vlad, or is he just a hopeless hacker?
Klaw (1:44 PM)
He’s not a hacker – he’s not swinging at everything in sight. He squares a lot of balls up, but it’s hard to have an adequate OBP when you draw two walks a month. Unless he’s hitting .350 in the majors, he’s going to have to figure out what comes after ball two.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
And another
Dan (Louisville, KY)
Bruce Levine suggested the Cubs might start Castro at SS this year. How do you think Castro would do if they tried this?
Klaw (1:51 PM)
It wouldn’t shock me if he held his own, but I think a half-year to a year in the high minors would do him a lot of good.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Glad you're doing this
My hands are a bit full right now. But to help you out:
Mark (Chicago) Brett Jackson make the list next year?
Klaw (1:29 PM)
If he does in 2010 what he did in 2009 in pro ball, yes. I left him off because I’m not going to completely ignore what he did before he was drafted in favor of a half-season or so of pro ABs.
Which of course
You already posted and I missed. Which shows how really distracted I am right no.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 28, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
That's alright - here's another
Keyandre (CR)
Kyler Burke, Hits enough to make the bigs?
Klaw (2:13 PM)
I say yes.
"What a lot of people don’t see is the tremendous amount of progress that has been made in the organization over the last few years. We have a lot of very talented guys coming up through the system. Jim has built an incredible scouting organization." - Tom Ricketts
Like Keith a lot
He knows something about baseball and i think his approach on Vitters is very logical. I think the kid will rake. He keeps getting injured which saps him of power but if he stays healthy watch out. I think he has a breakout year this year. And i think it will happen in AA
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
there are probably 30 guys i'm really interested
in seeing how they do this year.
only 30?
more than 30 post here, and we are what really matters about baseball, right?
Wait for it....POUND SAND Without me this board is Al Yellon talking to himself.....................by BLou
Brett Jackson
made Keith Laws “Top 10 Prospects who missed the Top 100.” i.e., he’s somewhere between 101 and 110.
Sounds good.
Hopefully, he’ll be in the top 100 next year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Law said he would be
if he repeats what he did this season in the minors. He said he didn’t want to put him in the top 100 because he wasn’t going to ignore what he thought of him as a college player (Law had him ranked as the #58 prospect in the draft) on the basis of only half a season in the minors. I assume he means that he would throw out his college evaluation after 1.5 years in the minors, as well he should.
by Josh Timmers on Jan 29, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
he will be a top 60 baseball america prospect i think
callis loves him… Keith hates him… I have a baseball america account and i really like brett jackson… I really like the JD Drew comps
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
I think that's a bit high,
but I’m not sure. I’d settle for a guy you can pencil in 150 games a year without thinking “we need to upgrade this spot” like we’ve been thinking for (fill in the blank with applicable large number) years.
Get quality production from the minors for about five or six positions, so you only have to buy or trade for three (or four, if you consider bullpen different from starter). A homegrown cf would be nice.
I wouldn’t see quite the power or on-base of GS, but defense in the range of.
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