A Tale Of Two (Or More) Pitchers
by Al Yellon on Jan 3, 2010 8:00 AM CST
in The Next 100 Years
187 comments
Yes, this post is going to be about Carlos Silva. Before you take out the pitchforks and torches, at least read it and consider. Here are two pitching lines, both pretty awful.
Pitcher A
W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+ WHIP 3 7 .300 6.54 22 20 1 0 115.2 134 89 84 14 70 84 63 1.764
Pitcher B
W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+ WHIP 4 15 .211 6.46 28 28 0 1 153.1 213 114 110 20 32 69 65 1.598
Which one would you want on your team? Yes, I know in a perfect world the correct answer is "neither one", but consider carefully before you go past the jump to find out who these guys are.
If you've been paying attention this offseason -- and it should be obvious from the photo on this post -- Pitcher B is Carlos Silva's 2008 season. (I quoted that instead of 2009, because Silva was hurt most of 2009 -- and may have been in 2008 also.)
Pitcher A is the 2003 season for... Ryan Dempster, who was having his second straight awful season after looking very promising in 2000 for the Marlins. Turned out, of course, that Dempster was injured; Jim Hendry plucked him off the scrap heap and he has been a good closer and starting pitcher for the Cubs, now going into his seventh season on the North Side.
Yes, I know there are many differences between the two situations. Dempster was 26, about to turn 27, when the Cubs acquired him; Silva will be 31 in April. Dempster came at the minimum salary (though he was making over $3 million with the Reds before that), Silva comes with a high price tag. And yet, Dempster, who all 29 other teams passed on when the Reds released him, has had a productive career. Not convinced yet? Would you have signed this guy?
W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+ WHIP 1 12 .077 6.42 32 19 1 1 123.1 171 93 88 11 45 93 67 1.751
Pretty awful, right? You'd dump the scout who recommended him, right? Congratulations, you just passed on Glendon Rusch, who put up those horrible numbers for the 2003 Milwaukee Brewers. The Cubs signed him four days after he was released by the Rangers at the end of spring training 2004, and he posted two decent years for the Cubs in 2004 and 2005 as a swingman, before having an awful 2006 (probably caused by a blood clot which risked his life, not just his baseball career).
A converse example -- here are the numbers that a Cubs pitcher put up in the 1980's:
W L W-L% ERA G GS GF CG IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+ WHIP 5 5 .500 5.17 19 14 2 1 92.1 123 57 53 7 23 43 75 1.581
A guy like that couldn't help your staff, right? Look at that pathetic strikeout total! You'd release him or let him go to free agency, right?
Congratulations again. You have just let Rick Reuschel go after his 1984 season -- which is exactly what the Cubs did. Dallas Green never did like Reuschel; he left both Reuschel and Rich Bordi off the '84 playoff roster, instead putting his old Philly buddy Dick Ruthven on the roster. The Cubs could have used both Reuschel and Bordi in the NLCS. Ruthven didn't throw a single postseason inning for the Cubs. By doing so, you missed him putting up five more solid years for the Pirates and Giants, including a 14-win season for the 1985 Pirates in which he finished fourth in the NL with a 2.27 ERA, a 1987 combined year between the Pirates and Giants in which he led the NL with a 1.097 WHIP, finished third in Cy Young voting and helped the Giants to a playoff berth, a 1988 season when he won 19 games and a 17-win season in 1989 in which he finished eighth in Cy Young voting and was the winning pitcher in the decisive Game 5 of the 1989 NLCS ... against the Cubs.
Here's the point to this exercise, and I know statistically-minded people are going to say that I'm cherry-picking individual seasons and that there are plenty of other examples of guys who were as bad as Carlos Silva was the last two years... and who continued to be bad, or were simply out of baseball because they were so bad.
However, Carlos Silva, at his "best" -- and I do use the word "best" advisedly -- was a serviceable fifth starter-type for the Twins in 2004, 2005 and 2007. (His 2006 season was admittedly just about as bad as 2008 and 2009.) He doesn't walk people. Often, pitchers who come from the better-hitting American League (league 2009 triple-slash: .267/.336/.428, compared to the NL's .259/.331/.409) do better, at least until the league has seen them once. Call this the "Bronson Arroyo Effect". Silva was injured last year. He was out of shape. The Cubs have already stated they expect him to come to camp in shape.
If he does so, I don't see any reason why we as fans can't give the guy a chance in actual games before we completely dismiss him. If he can get back to his 2007 level, he'll be quite useful. The Cubs have him because of a situation that had to be resolved. Obviously, there's no way you'd pay a guy like that the dollars he is getting, if he were a free agent. But the Cubs used some of the savings in that deal to get a starting center fielder, too.
So put those pitchforks down, and at least let's see what he can do, before completely dismissing Carlos Silva.
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The comparison is iffy at best, but I agree with giving Silva a chance...
**** gulp of Kool-Aid **** ;-)
He might surprise us all…
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Luck
Good post Al. I read this as you never know what you might get out of someone.
To win it all, a team needs a little luck. The mediocre players have to have better then expected years and the good players have to have good years with several players having career best years.
If Silva has a big year and we know he has the “potential” to have a good year it could bring magic in 2010. We need a little luck on the North Side. If nothing else we are due for all the pieces to fall into place.
I love watching the Cubs during the season and dread watching them in the playoffs.
There's nothing wrong with hoping that Silva can be a serviceable pitcher
as long as they aren’t counting on it, and more importantly, remember that they saved their $6 million from the Bradley contract. That’s really about as much as could have been hoped for, so please, for the love of god, don’t feel the need to keep this guy if he’s gonna be as shitty as he’s been for the last two years. If he’s going to throw to a 5+ ERA or whatever, cut him loose, thank the M’s and hope that Bradley does well enough in Seattle that Hendry can say that they owe us one.
"Enough foreplay- let's get crackin'"- Fred Garvin
That's exactly how I feel.
Give the guy a shot. If he’s bad — well then, you have to release him, or stash him on the DL, or bury him at the back of the bullpen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hoping for the best is different than expectations
I’m hoping he does well and I’ll give him a chance. That said, my expectations are about as low as you can go. On the positive side, if he does anything he will exceed my expectations.
Hope and maybe duck.
I still would look into Ben Sheets. As the days go by maybe the Cubs can sign Sheets to a deal.
The guys crazy....
thinking hes going to get the number he put out there—correct me if I’m wrong but he and his agent are/were seeking a crazy amount ($12 million +?).
Come on… after being out for a year you’re gonna ask for THAT much?
He ain’t getting it.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
I don' think he will get that
However, maybe 2 million, with 4-5 million in incentives could do the deal.
I could see him getting 5 mil, guaranteed.
$12 million is absolutely absurd.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
Hmm... that gives me an idea...
Remember “Spahn and Sain, and pray for rain”?
Well, how about “Hope and duck, and pray for luck” as a slogan for the 2010 Cubs rotation. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Very interesting.
This goes to show that baseball players can have a bad year and their potential is unnoticed (or even ignored) by those who rely on statistics alone.
I hope Silva does well on the North Side.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 8:47 AM CST reply actions
How about this line:
W: 4
L: 5
ERA: 5.15
IP: 94.1
WHIP: 1.664
If you skipped on this pitcher, you missed Rick Sutcliffe. This was his record before he joined the Cubs in 1984.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 8:51 AM CST reply actions
Yabbut that's a half-season.
Silva’s been pretty horrible for his whole career.
But, the same way Sutcliffe can have a bad 100 innings or so, Silva has the potential to have a good 100 innings or so. The trick is making sure the Cubs are the benificiaries of said good 100 innings.
I understand that,
But the fact is that his line was not impressive before Dallas Green went and signed him from Cleveland.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
He was traded, not signed....
…and he had 31 victories over the previous 2 seasons, so it’s not like he just came out of nowhere.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Jan 3, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Nice Post
Still not super thrilled about the moves this offseason but I am really going to enjoy watching how this Silva deal works out. Ive watched the videos, listened to the interviews and see a guy who could be a solid basic part of the team. I hope it works out as we all love the feel good stories I suppose. Now for the crazy part…Much like Dempster could Silva benefit from limited innings and the ability to use his full arsenal of pitches in the closer or set up roll. I have mentioned this before and am well aware that it is way out there but who knows. I think from a monetary side it would be interesting. He is being paid closer money, sort of, so why not have a look? No matter what I have no doubts that he will give this team 100 percent. Should be fun to watch.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
Sigh...
Yes Al, you’re selectively cherry picking data points. If this was only about Silva’s 2009 season, this would be a totally valid post; but it’s not, so it’s not.
Silva has rarely ever been better than serviceable. He took a nice two month stretch in 2007, and turned it into a big payday. He’s two years removed from that stretch, and by your own admission, four years removed from his serviceable days, and coming of a shoulder impingment injury, along with a torn labrum, to boot.
And all of this wouldn’t be so bad were it not for the fact that he’s now in his 30’s, and is one of the most poorly conditioned players in baseball.
This was not a good move, and it’s not going to end well. Still, more knowledgeable fans have come to terms with this deal, and moved on. There’s no need to spin it for us, and if you’re going to pee in my ear, at least pretend, and tell me it’s raining.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:21 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
So if he has a serviceable year...
… you’ll happily admit you were wrong, right?
Most of the pitchers I mentioned above also had some kind of injury problems. They were resolved, and the Cubs got the benefit (or in the case of Reuschel, lost it).
Clever, too, saying Silva is “in his 30’s”, as if he were ancient. He’ll be 31 in April.
Look, I know it’s likely he’s going to suck. Can you at least even admit there is a small chance that he can become serviceable? That’s not too much to ask.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Tell you what,
Go talk to an orthopedist about the effects of a shoulder injury on a poorly conditioned athlete – especially one in his 30s – and come back to me. Barring some drastic changes, he’ll be 31, playing like he’s 38.
We can debate this in depth another time, as I’m running out for coffee. But just because there is a small likelihood of Silva being useable does not make this any better. There is little quantitative or qualitative data to support this idea, so all you really have is hope and luck. Franchises shouldn’t be fielding teams based on either.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hope, luck and just a bit of the unexpected
Is what makes this fun for me. Otherwise we may as well be talking about bowling or bobsled racing. IMHO It doesnt hurt to have this element on a team especially when this element is only to be used as a progression of the positive. If not and thankfully, the pressure has been lifted to use the roster spot to the teams benefit if Silva is a no show. Pro teams are made of nothing more than informed decisions based on years of nothing more than hope and luck. The damage has been done with the MB contact. Getting something in return would be nice. My 2cents.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Jan 3, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
But let's not forget the important thing,
Silva is here in place of Bradley and even if he sits on his aging arse all season, the 2k10 Cubs will be a much better team.
Yes'm
Didn't Silva have some public thing where he was questioning or complaining about Ichiro?
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Pick up another pitcher
From the scrap heap if he comes cheap enough: Bedard or Sheets probably want some dough…how about Prior? Is he toast? Surgeries couldn’t do anything for him? He’s under 30 by a year or so yet, no? I’ve heard Mulder linked to other teams, used to be a good lefty. I’m pretty sure the Cubs will invite another vet to camp, no idea who it will be at this point though.
It’s depressing to see how Cub hands are tied financially for next 2 years until Bradley/Silva and Fulkudome come off the books ($24 M or whatever it is). If the Cubs don’t bounce back this year I could see them not re-signing D-Lee…Lilly I believe must be retained unless he’s hurt and declines badly. If they really go in the toilet can see Z being dealt and trying to find another (more reliable) "ace.’’
May as well hope for the best
The Cubs had to get rid of Bradley. This is what you’ve got. May as well hope for the best.
I wouldn’t be shocked if Silva was productive for the Cubs Surprised? Yes, I’d definitely be surprised but not shocked.
"People shouldn’t bust your chops just because you’re a Sox fan on a Cub board — but I know it happens. FWIW, I think sites like this are more interesting when fans of other teams join in the conversation." by Shanghai Badger on Mar 13, 2009
If I were better with images
I would put up some pitchforks and torches. There is a remote possibility Silva might be of SOME use but it is pretty unlikely. My fear is that he will be kept on the roster as opposed to one of the potentially good bullpen arms in the minors.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Ok. Carlos is off the roster by 25
and that includes a “tired” arm " injury".
You keeping track ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
25 O Clock of course
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I stayed up until then on New Year's Eve.
Strangest time of the day I’ve ever seen.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
Best musical reference of the year!
so far… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I always type way too fast. I meant 6/1
as in first of June. Deal ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Carlos Silva…doesn’t walk people.
No, he lets them jog around the bases leisurely and admires the exploding fireworks while he waits for the next batter to step in.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
by Goodie1969 on Jan 3, 2010 10:08 AM CST reply actions 9 recs
Thats funny..
This should be put in the archives somewhere.
There goes one over the fence...a Tru-Link fence.
by truelinkfence on Jan 3, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Ballhawk is drooling
except for the fireworks part. He want’s Carlos to work his magic at Wrigley.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
I fully expect Silva to rise to the challenge
Baseballs have been leaving Wrigley in significantly lower numbers since the bleacher expansion. Batting practice is down about 65-70%. Haven’t bothered to figure out game homers – it would depress me too much – but wouldn’t surprise me if it was at a similar rate.
But in looking at Silva’s numbers… you’re right, Doggie. I am drooling. Carlos Silva looks like the twisted offspring of Glendon Rusch and Steve Trachsel, with Jeff Fassero and Dave Smith as godparents.
Bleacher expansion? HA! Carlos scoffs at the notion that some mere bleacher expansion will keep him in the park. He has much higher (and longer) aspirations. He’s going for Steve Woodard territory – the rooftops!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Could Howry & Gregg be step siblings ?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 3, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
go ahead and put that lariat of truth on me - the stats don't lie!
Mad Dog in his post-Atlanta days gave up the long ball on a pretty regular basis. Not quite at Rusch-ian levels but good enough to put him in the family tree. Second cousin seems about right.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
This true
but when he went west to the much more friendly PETCO and Dodger Stadium the rate went down a lot.
However being Maddux even when he was serving them up good with the Cubs, there tended to be a lot fewer runners on then Rusch etc.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
This all depends on how the Cubs...
“weigh” Silva’s contract when making decisions. They should treat him like a player signed to a league-minimum contract, but one that they’re hoping becomes “lightning in a bottle.” In that case your comparisons are apt. and they’d be taking a small risk and hoping Rothschild, the trainers, and a luck turn Silva into something useful. But if they treat him like a guy they’re determined to get something out of because of his salary, they could really hurt the team. From Hendry’s public statements it sounds like they’re going about this the right way. And unless the Cubs sign someone else like Sheets (here’s hoping) I think Silva has until Lilly’s return to prove himself.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 10:11 AM CST via mobile reply actions 8 recs
Rec'd for this:
if they treat him like a guy they’re determined to get something out of because of his salary, they could really hurt the team.
and also:
I think Silva has until Lilly’s return to prove himself.
"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham
I agree with you.
Your analysis makes perfect sense. Obviously, you wouldn’t take a guy like this on your team unless there were extraordinary circumstances, which there were. The Cubs have to know that this is indeed a “lightning in a bottle” situation.
Let’s hope they find that lightning.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Are they even looking for lightning?
For me, if Silva is anything better than a gas can, he is “serviceable”.
IMO, if he can just be the mop-up guy, then fine. I’ve always been of the mindset that I would rather have an old starter (rather than a young guy / prospect) in the long reliever role.
The Cubs will lose games. Some of them will be ugly. If Silva can even just take up 2-3 innings in some of those games, then he is useful.
BTW, like the overall initial post. Of course there was “cherry picking”… but anyone who thinks you are predicting a Dempster-like turnaround for Silva simply isn’t reading.
by fsuapollo on Jan 3, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, exactly.
Never said that. All I said is that I hoped he could become serviceable, instead of awful.
Not a lot to ask, I don’t think.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fair point.
I guess from where I’m sitting “serviceable mop-up man/6th starter/swingman” would be lightning in a bottle, given Silva’s expectations.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Good point on the cherry picking, too.
Al was clearly cherry picking, but he was doing so to prove a point, and that point wasn’t “Silva is going to be good.” It’s that sometimes guys have turnarounds, and if nothing else the Cubs have a “free” ticket (as in but 10, get 1 “free”) to see if Silva is one of those guys.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
well then, a case could probably be made for anybody, anywhere, under any conditions to have a turnaround...
…no matter how untenable the situation as long as you came up with some cherry-picked stats, right?
And my point is not so much to dis Al for suggesting that such a turnaround is a possibility as I happen to agree that yes, Silva has a chance to at least become slightly serviceable. It’s more bemusement at those folks who allow for possibilities like this when it suits them and also dismiss any chance when it also suits them.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yeah that's about right.
It’s not that there’s a good chance of it happening. It’s that it almost doesn’t matter how small the chance is if the team isn’t paying anything for it and isn’t dedicating a roster spot to the player if he doesn’t pan out. And that’s the case here. The Cubs have nothing to lose in this situation if they don’t play Silva if (when) he stinks up the joint.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
how green can it get
great points, and I hope like hell Hendry’s public statements are not just PR but reality
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Silva and Soto must've been on the same workout plan last year.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Here's hoping you're right, Al
At any rate, I think the acquisition of Silva altered the Cubs offseason plans. A month ago, there was much more talk of Hendry acquiring another starter. The emphasis now — after dumping MB, getting Silva and signing Byrd — seems to be on the bullpen.
Frankly, even before Silva became a Cub, I think the rotation was the last thing the Cubs needed to work on. That’s not saying I don’t have concerns with our starters, but I think more resources should be devoted to the bullpen, the lineup and the bench.
Frankly, I think we’ll see a surprise signing — either a left-handed fourth outfielder or a left-handed hitting second baseman. Does anyone think it’s possible that Ankiel or Podsednik winds up as the Cubs’ fourth outfielder?
God, let's hope not.
I think Sam Fuld could outperform either of them as a 4th OF.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd like to see Ankiel signed...
if the contract isn’t much. The Cubs could use a good left-handed bat on the bench and he’s a good candidate for a comeback/breakout season.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't disagree.
But it would need to be a contract no more than something like 1 year $3M. And even that would essentially end the off-season spending.
i think he will not sign a 1 year deal
otherwise i would say sure for a 4th OF spot
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
That was my first thought, too...
but Boras might settle for that – hope Ankiel can rebuild more value – and then try and pillage the FA market again the next year.
Al, that's just ridiculous
Sure, Sam Fuld COULD outperform both of them — just like Carlos Silva COULD win the Cy Young.
Now, Fuld might be a better fit for the Cubs considering the cost of each of the players. But Fuld has almost NO power and is really no more than a fifth outfielder. And, with Ankiel, we at least know he can play a competent center.
You would really be opposed to Rick Ankiel as our fourth outfielder — a guy who can play all three positions a guy who has had real major league success and a guy who could strengthen our bench — if he would play for one year at $3 million?
If he wants more money or more years, don’t sign him.
re-reading my post ...
I didn’t mean to imply that Fuld can’t play a competent center.
I should hope NOT
There is no question that Fuld has little power but he is not a craptastic batter. Imagine having someone on the bench who can do things like execute a sacrifice , draw a walk, punch a single up the middle and pinch run in addition to his good glove. If Fuld were all glove he really would be of little use but his ability to play “small ball” has been sadly lacking with most of the other Cub position players and is sorely needed assuming Lou actually uses it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Sam Fuld will see plenty of playing time in 2010
That is my impression. I think the lack of enough left-handed hitting is so acute that Lou Piniella will find ways to get Fuld playing time. I also think Piniella’s patience with Soriano won’t last, and that the $136 million man could see himself replaced a couple days a week in left field.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
agreed 100%
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
do you think Sam Fuld will outperform Ankiel?
Really, do you?
Do you think Ankiel would accept a bench role?
I dont see it.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
from my comment a little later in this thread
It’s probably immaterial anyway. Ankiel, I’d guess, wants a starting job and more money than the Cubs can offer. But if he doesn’t have a job in a month …
That’s all I’m saying.
even in a month, i doubt he would take a 4th OF spot
but who knows.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
he's coming off an injury ...
We signed Cliff Floyd three years ago and he wasn’t guaranteed a job.
and yet, you don't think he's good enough to start.
On a team with a bunch of right handed sluggers and at least one stone glove starting in the OF, why are you satisfied with merely keeping Fuld on the bench? If he can do all those things you listed above, shouldn’t he be starting a good number of games, maybe in a platoon, certainly as at least the 4th outfielder?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
He is good enough to start a couple of days a week as needed
but to play OF on a daily basis with virtually no power, I don’t think so. His minor league numbers are good but not mind blowing and he does have a history of injuries. I see him as the DeRosa of the bench. A guy who can start, come in for defense, come to pinch hit when contact is more important than power , and pinch run. There is a pretty good chance depending on how things go he may get a chance to start everyday but I certainly would not have wanted to go into the season counting on him as the everyday center fielder.
I am surprised you would endorse this as Sam is NEVER getting you a souvenir. So far he has one HR which barely cleared the LF basket so unless you want to come to games and sit in the front corner of RF, nothing in it for you.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
could Fuld toss a few out to streets?
that could make up for his lack of HR power
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
no but he could toss one into the LF bleachers
Let’s see if he can make it to the 2nd from the top row.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Jan 3, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
UZR
would give a conflicting report on Ankiel’s CF play. RA has been a negative UZR CF.
He’s not incompetent, but isn’t a great fit for CF. Fuld has a very small sample size, but at least by the eyeball test looks good as a defender in CF.
As I noted above, I’m not opposed to signing Ankiel at the right price… but it would be more for the upside of his bat and OF flexibility rather than his OF proficiency.
that's fine
I wasn’t saying that Ankiel was great defensively, and I think that an outfield group of Soriano, Byrd, Fukudome, Ankiel and Fuld would be great.
It’s probably immaterial anyway. Ankiel, I’d guess, wants a starting job and more money than the Cubs can offer. But if he doesn’t have a job in a month …
Anyway, I think many BCBers, Al included, are a little gunshy about free agents after last offseason — leading to overestimating the talents of guys already on the roster.
Agree all the way around.
Though I’m not horrified by the idea of Fuld as a 4th OF, though I’d rather he be the 5th OF.
If a nice, cost-efficient option is available as a 4th OF (Ankiel, even Reed, Spilbourghs, etc.) then fine… but $3M is really the absolute most I’d want to burn on that spot.
can we carry 5 OFers who cannot play anywhere in the IF?
that would take a chunk of the bench away, if they decide to carry 12 pitchers that leaves 13 position players (5 bench), carryng a back up catcher takes that number to 4. need players who can play more than just OF IMHO. to carry 5 OFers means that we have 2 others (Hoff and ?) leaving a short bench for flexability.
and NO this is not a problem Fox would have fixed before that comes up, and sure this is what made DeRosa so valuable but I think his time has come and gone as a Cub, lets not revisit that again please
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
that's an interesting point ...
But the Cubs have Baker who can play any corner position, Fontenot who can play third and Blanco.
Another point — I wonder if the Cubs are thinking about using Baker in right against lefties.
I don't see why not.
You’d sure prefer to maximize your flexibility with all of your bench guys. But, assuming Baker is the starter at 2B and Lou carries 12 pitchers (maybe 11 the first couple weeks with extra off days?), that leaves five bench spots.
To me, those spots would be:
4th OF: TBD (needs to be the “big bat”)
Fuld (can play any OF spot)
K Hill ©
Blanco (2B – SS)
Fontenot (2B, 3B in an “emergency”)
Baker is the presumed backup at 3B and 1B with Blanco or Fontentot slotting in at 2B.
part of the bench is not just glove
who do you want to see PH in that group?
Hoff
Hill
Fuld
Blanco
Font/Baker (based on a platoon one would be on bench)
Blanco
(one in that group would not make the team based on 12 pitchers and 13 position players)
instead of Ankiel, or another OF, I would look for someone who can play middle infield. Hoff (not great) can back up the corner OF spots behind Fuld on the depth chart. If an OF goes down then its time for Colvin to make or break his Cubs career.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I don't disagree
about not loving those PH options, but I’m just not sure what the options are. Seriously… any ideas for adding a MI? I guess you could look at Tejada for SS, shift Theriot to 2B and have Baker be the flexible part off the bench who is the “big bat”. I don’t think Miggy is a serious option for the Cubs.
I guess I could see Fuld as the 4th OF with Hoff as the “5th OF” / designated PH (with Baker also an option in the OF corners)… but I guess I’d personally rather have Ankiel (though that is a pretty lukewarm feeling, as well).
The Cubs probably have enough $ to add one more mid size piece. They could use a 4th OF, perhaps another SP option, and another RP option. Personally, I’d put those three “needs” above another MI.
I dont disagree with much of what u said
but Ankiel is way down any list I woujld put together, he is not a needed part, and Fuld/Colvin can be the 4th just fine IMHO
I would look at Valverde is we are looking at RP and move Marmol back to the birdge, he thrived in that role, and I like him there. Grabow, Marmol and Guzman to get the ball to Valverde looks good to me
I really am not sure as well who to look at for middle infield or a bench bat. Tejada could fill a void, but at what cost? same with Cabrera. Neither are spring chickens as well. Who else is available (trade or FA) right now to fill that void, also who in the Cubs minor league system (realistically) that will get an invite to ST could fill it for less in house?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
FWIW ...
I would not offer Podsednik $3 million. Not even close.
well ...
I’d consider a cheap deal if I saw numbers that showed Podsednik hits lefties as well (or better) than righties. Might work in a weird platoon with Kosuke.
no thanks to Pods
would rather go with Colvin instead
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I'd rather see Ryan Church (if healthy) than either Ankiel or Pods
Has been a better fielder and a more consistent hitter. Ankiel might be interesting in the “big bat off the bench” role, but I’d prefer someone with less tendency to swing and miss.
Agreed
Not sure why Church isn’t being sought after more by any team. I’d love to have him on the bench or as insurance for Byrd
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Put him in the pen
And do not, I repeat, do not bring him on in high leverage situations. Up by 5 or down by 5. See how he does , and go from there.
It is sunk cost, wether he pitches or not. So if he blows goats, just don’t let him pitch! He can’t take innings from someone that will help us win games.
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 11:26 AM CST reply actions
my thoughts on Silva
are a lot like a back up catcher. any production above “minimal” is above expectation and a bonus.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
The difference between back up catcher and pitcher
Is that a pitcher can hurt you more. Yeah, a catcher can strike out a lot, but they usually play good defense. Pitchers can lose you ball games. Hitters usually can’t
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Silva vs. Reuschel
Silva is a pitcher who relies on location and control. His “stuff” is average, and if his “fastball” misses its spot, it is going to be hit a long way.
This doesn’t mean that Silva can’t have a sort of pitching epiphany where he is able to harness his pitches – as Reuschel did when he made his transition from a power-ish pitcher to a guy who made batters hit his pitch – and have success in Chicago. I just am not holding my breath.
Spring training will speak volumes as to the level of success he will have for the Cubs. If he is able to spot his pitches, we may be pleasantly surprised.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
I'm worried a lot LESS about our pitching than I am about your offense.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Well...
While the lineup shapes up to be a one-dimensional mess I would also have equal parts worry for that bullpen. Or lack thereof. If Marmol can’t fix his walks thing this bullpen will be God-awful ugly.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I think our rotation is just fine.
And I don’t put a lot of faith—or, rather, I think it’s largely a waste—to invest monies and efforts into a bullpen. I play under the assumption that some of the best relievers are failed starters. I know this isn’t the rule but a guideline, however I think it’s somewhat silly to invest into guys that have very little career stability.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You really never know
when a player will have a resurgent year. Sometimes, getting off to a good start builds confidence and this game is so mental, sometimes the confidence boost goes a long way.
Randy Wells is a good example. Not great stuff but got off to a good start and became surpremely confident, executed to the best of his ability and was therefore very effective,
We can at least hope for the best Silva has to offer.
agreed
we are stuck with this guy so theres no use whining about it the next 2 months. give him a shot and if he fails release him. this was the price for getting rid of bradley.
Al Yellon reduced to grasping at straws leading up the trainwreck to be 2010 season
Carlos Silva is very terrible and awful. Sure as shit he will be banished to the DL with a non-curable case of suck. Even on a pitching staff with open question marks in the rotation and pen.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Jan 3, 2010 3:36 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Would you rather have Burrell and no cap space?
I’m asking, not challenging. I just wonder what else you could have done with the Bradley situation. If you answer keep him or cut him, you’re blind to the situation. There was no way either would work
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
How'd that whole lefthanded bat work out for us last year?
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Don't forget Miles.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
The point I was getting at is,
if they hit, does it really matter THAT much from which side of the plate they’re hitting from? A balanced lineup is ideal, but if not, then so be it. A hate to be beating a dead horse here, but look at everybody’s favorite year to compare to. 2008. We got to the playoffs with a lineup of RH Soriano, RH Soto, RH Ramirez, RH Derosa, RH Lee, and RH Theriot. I cannot make myself believe that RH pitching in the playoffs did us in. We went through the entire year with those players, facing PRIMARILY RHP. I’m done with the whole balanced lineup is a big deal thing.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
I agree
LH or RH is not as important as talent.
IMHO Ankiel does not provide the talent that we would need. He is below Byrd, and just cuz RA is LH is not a reason to sign him
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
you might be done with the argument
but the need for balance in a lineup isn’t exactly a new concept. You failed to mention the lefties in the Cubs’ lineup who produced in 2008 — Kosuke in the first few months, Edmonds for the last four or so and Fontenot in spots.
The Cubs didn’t falter last year because they were left handed. They faltered because Soriano and Soto had horrible years, Ramirez got hurt and nearly every offseason move by Hendry backfired.
And those moves didn’t backfire because the idea to get more left handed was incorrect.
How did Silva have a complete game in '08
without having finished a game? Or am I misreading the GS GF and CG stats?
Maybe it was a rain shortened game?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 3, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
GF (Games Finished) is a reliever's stat.
It means you were on the mound when the game ended. CG are for starters only.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Just wait to see what Silva does on the field before you make any judgments.
OT: We have gotten a record snowstorm here in Vermont. It started late Thursday night and really intensified yesterday afternoon.
We have received nearly three feet of snow already, and this storm is supposed to slowly taper off until tomorrow.
Biggest snowstorm on record here in Burlington, Vermont. The previous record was 29.8 inches in December 1969.
We are at 32.9 inches of snow from this storm at last check.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 6:13 PM CST reply actions
Correction:
Spring training can’t come soon enough.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
It wouldn't be so bad...
if the Bears hadn’t disappointed so badly. Or if the NBA had more parity.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 3, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Evidently Washington has a couple guys who can shoot...
Oh wait – you meant on the court. Sorry, my bad… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yeesh
I’ll admit I chuckled. Then my conscious kicked in
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
If I were in charge, I'd adopt the FIBA rules.
That would make it a more team-oriented game and would stress shooting more. But the NBA is all about the superstars, so I doubt they’ll ever consider that, at least not until Stern steps down.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 4, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
I'd settle for the NBA having more basketball in it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 3, 2010 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
+1
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
thank god for NHL
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Thank god there's ONE good team in Chicago
I would have settled for them being a playoff team again but man watching the Hawks is excellent. I think you’ll see Chicago become more of a Hawkey town come April then you will a baseball town
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
its returning to its roots of a hockey town
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
and is that an excuse not to have a catch?
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
No, it isn't.
Wait until you see my pictures from this storm.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
I have some time off starting Wednesday.
I’ll head out then and take some pictures of this.
Even the Valentine’s Day 2007 storm wasn’t like this one.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
my brother was born during that
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
I mean '78
I was there and remember vividly walking to Harvard Square during the height of it.
you can’t get much by that #$%@ ballhawk -- LT
Oh, you mean in ESPN-land.
I was talking about Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, the odd thing is,
We’ve been getting buried here in the Lake Champlain Valley in Vermont.
The Green Mountains, however, have gotten a few inches at the most.
A band of this storm has been just sitting over us, giving us near-constant white-out conditions here.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
weather has been strange in a few places
nothing like that, but Houston got snow, and Austin saw nothing. Mind you, Austin is about 2 1/2 – 3 hours North of it. My friend was “snowed” in when visiting Beaumont (South East of Houston) during that same time.
I have not dealt with snow above a slight flurry in 10 years. I have now grown t appreciate pics of it, but still do not miss dealing with it annually.
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
yes please do post
baseball is a game of outs......pop out, ground out, line out, pitch out, strike out, fly out, and Fox and Bud's favorite black out
Right now,
I am hearing a snowblower outside which is getting overwhelmed due to the large volume of snow out there.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 3, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
Note that link is aimed at fantasy baseball owners.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Carlos Silva will either be
serviceable as a 5th starter or terrible. Either way, his performance is pretty far down the list of key factors to a successful 2010 season for the Cubs. Fifth starters are easily (somewhat) replaceable, and the Cubs have other decent candidates if Silva doesn’t work out. The premise of your post deserves consideration because pitchers are like the stock market in that “past performance is not indicative of future results.” Either way, I’m much more interested in whether the Cubs can find a real leadoff hitter in the next 6 weeks.
The Cubs have a leadoff hitter -- Kosuke Fukudome.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No, they don't..
Lou Piniella spent the last two seasons preferring to eat glass, rather than bat Fukudome leadoff. Why are we to believe that this will change in 2010?
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
Also, you MUST insert a lefty in the middle of the lineup.
A wise man told me this once.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 3, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
True...
And I would like to ask Al a question while I’m here. I know you think the Cubs will stand pat on getting a lefty second baseman, but I’m told that Bruce Levine said last week that the Cubs are still talking to the Mets about Castillo. You know anything about it?
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
Have heard nothing about this.
I wonder where the $ would come from for Castillo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldn't be surprised to
see the Mets eat a big chunk of his remaining contract to make him go away.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
The Mets already spent a ton of money this offseason on Jason Bay.
I doubt they’d want to do that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What?
Eat cash to move Castillo? Can I take a Big Gulp bet on that?
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
LOL
Seriously, why would the Mets want to do that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Seriosuly?
They don’t want him to play second base there anymore, and no one else will take him at $6 mil per.
As I said though, just curious if you had heard anything about this.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 3, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
What is this Big Gulp thing?
The equivalent to a Masskrug?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
Hmmm...
Not even sure how I would feel about it… but would you send Silva and the salary difference to the Mets for Castillo? Maybe the Mets would gamble that Citi’s bigger dimensions would keep more of Silva’s offerings in the park.
I’m not a Castillo fan… just flinging stuff against the wall.
Actually not a bad idea for either side
I could see Silva doing well there, or at least serviceable. And the Mets are desperate for pitching and getting rid of Castillo
Basically you’re trading Bradley for Castillo
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Yes but you can use Castillo
You really can’t use Silva on this team
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Baker is better than Castillo
But Baker serves another purpose in super utility. Castillo can also hit leadoff or 2nd
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
IMO Castillo is still questionable.
So is Silva. But I see no reason Silva can’t be “useful” as a mop-up man as the last guy in the pen pitching in games where the Cubs are up or down 5+.
Eh
There are too many question marks about Silva. With Castillo you know what you’re getting
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I think that is fair.
The difference to me is in scope of expectations.
If Castillo didn’t have plenty of issues, the Mets wouldn’t be trying to move him. $6M for a starting 2B isn’t crazy money at all.
So IMO the “downside” to acquiring Castillo with the chance for him to “fail” as a starting 2B is greater than the “downside” to Silva failing as the 12th man in the pen.
On the other hand, if you could somehow convince the Mets to take Silva straight up (no $ exchange) for Castillo, then the value assessment changes.
So IMO the "downside" to acquiring Castillo with the chance for him to "fail" as a starting 2B is greater than the "downside" to Silva failing as the 12th man in the pen.
unfortunately lou has a tendency of using the 12th man (or pitchers that have the skills of the 12th man) in non blowouts
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 6, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
What the bullpen could look like with Silva in the LR role...
Closer: Carlos Marmol
Set Up: John Grabow
Set Up: Angel Guzman
LOOGY: Sean Marshall/Gorzelanny
2 Relief Pitchers: Jeff Gray (not listed on Cubs.com depth chart….), Jeff Samardzija, Justin Berg, Caridad, Patton
Long Relief: Carlos Silva
Makes the rotation as such:
Zambrano
Lilly
Dempster
Wells
Marshall/Gorzelanny
I actually really like that bullpen. I think Marshall is better off for the pen at this point because he is more than capable at being a reliever/LOOGY. Would someone like Sheets look good on this roster? Yeah, for sure. But can you have Marshall and Gorz in the pen in addition to Silva? Might be tough to spread the innings around
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I think the Cubs need one more starter.
I’m fine with the rotation as you post it. But Lilly is out for a month, and you can’t expect starting pitchers to be healthy all year. Gorzelanny is fine as the team’s 5th starter; my problem is Silva as the team’s 6th starter. If you sign one more pitcher, then Gorzelanny becomes your swingman and Silva is cut unless he really impresses in spring training. I like that setup much more.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 4, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
I think you have to see what you get with Silva
That’s not a bad idea though. I’m all for kicking the tires on a Sheets/Bedard/Randy Johnson type. In regards to injuries, I think they can survive for a bit with a four man rotation given the off days and what not. After that, I say use someone like Shark, who really should be in AAA for starting purposes. Give him about 5 starts in the MLB, see if he does anything. If not, send him to the pen for the rest of the year.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I like Sheets the most of those guys.
I’m not optimistic about Shark. I like $ner a lot more.
by shawndgoldman on Jan 4, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Cashner is a year away IMO
Just from everything I’ve read. I’m stoked for him though. I hope the Cubs give him a chance to start.
I think Shark could be a useful middle relief guy. It’s a shame he hasn’t panned out to be more. He reminds me a lot of Heilman.
Sheets has the most potential to do well of those three but he will definitely cost the most. I don’t think a rotation arm is a necessity on the roster, just a want at this point.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Crazy
Carlos Silva is bad. Carlos Silva is very, very bad. Carlos Silva gives up hits in bunches. Carlos Silva strikes out very few hitters. Carlos Silva has been given chances and is merely the overpaid alternative to Milton Bradley’s inability to get along with people.
Carlos Silva will not, and should not, pitch meaningful innings for the Cubs in 2010.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
That is probably correct.
But through the course of a 162 game season, there are lots of innings that aren’t very meaningful (up or down 5+ runs). Even if (when) he gives up more runs, this is where being an “innings eater” is helpful.
Ridiculous Post
The logic of this post seems to be that since there have been instances when marginal players with poor stats most of their careers suddenly have a suprisingly good year, we should not be concerned about the past stats. It is also true that players with historically excellent performance have had bad years. I guess we shouldn’t care if a guy’s career ERA is 3.0 or 6.0 – anything can happen.
I know you don’t believe this and are just making the point that nobody should be completely written off before an inning has been played, but just stating this is more rational than pulling out similar stats for one year and saying there is some reason to beleive that history will repeat itself. Compared to just cutting Bradley the Cubs cut their losses a few million, and there is a slim – very slim – possibility that the guy they got could contribute something. Trying to prove this using stats is silly.
You are correct about the point I was making.
The stats were simply an illustration of the point that, as you say, “nobody should be completely written off before an inning has been played”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
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