Let's Dream, Shall We? How Albert Pujols Could Become A Cub
by Al Yellon on Jan 6, 2010 8:00 AM CST
in The Next 100 Years
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PrintWith yesterday's announcement that Matt Holliday will return to the Cardinals on a seven-year, $120 million deal (which could be eight years, $137 million if he meets a 2016 vesting option -- hey, those numbers sound familiar to anyone?), the Cardinals' next target should be their own superstar, Albert Pujols, who will be a free agent after the 2010 season.
The question I immediately thought of was, "But can they afford him?" Even with a "hometown discount", Pujols could command a deal of seven or eight years and close to $200 million. Some may say that the Cardinals can't afford not to sign him, given what he means to their franchise (similar to the Twins' current dilemma with Joe Mauer).
But who knows? Mauer might become a Yankee. And I can think of a scenario by which Pujols becomes a Cub. Farfetched? Maybe. Follow me after the jump to see how it could happen, and I would argue, should happen in order to really make the Cubs the marquee (not Marquis) franchise we all want them to be.
Currently, the highest-paid player in the game is Alex Rodriguez, who will average $27 million over the next eight years in a deal that we might call a "reverse Hendry" -- in other words, it's front-loaded; A-Rod's salary tops out at $32 million in 2009 and 2010 and declines from there (all figures from Cot's Baseball Contracts).
I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that Pujols has surpassed A-Rod as the best hitter in baseball right now, and will probably stay there for many years to come. He's playing first base better than anyone, and even if you signed him to an eight-year deal -- taking him till he's age 39, presuming it begins with the 2011 season -- he'll probably still be a capable 1B when that deal ended.
So how could he become a Cub? First, Tom Ricketts would have to understand the value of signing the best hitter in the game. Besides the obvious on-field contributions of Pujols, he'd be making a statement that the Cubs want to play with the big boys -- and a further benefit would be sticking it to the Cubs' biggest rival.
Win-win, if you ask me, and even though it would be an enormous contract, can you imagine the number of Cubs Pujols jerseys and T-shirts that would be sold over the term of the deal? Might help amortize some of the money.
In any case, I suspect that an eight-year deal approaching $200 million -- or about $25 million a year, perhaps frontloaded the way A-Rod's is -- would do it. How do you pay for this?
First, we all love Derrek Lee. He has had a productive six years as a Cub and I expect he'll be close to his 2009 production in 2010. But he will be 35 in September and I think in order to get a better hitter who's five years younger, you say goodbye to Derrek, thank him for the wonderful service, and let him go to an AL team where he can DH part of the time. That frees up about half ($13 million) of the money you'd need. I think it might also be time to say farewell to Ted Lilly, who will also have given the Cubs four good years but will turn 35 himself in January 2011. Ted's making $12 million in 2010.
Voila! There's $25 million right there. Kosuke Fukudome's deal comes off the books after 2011 -- you can save $13 million with that, and the Cubs won't be paying Carlos Silva after 2011 either, another $11.5 million saved.
Thus, the Cubs could easily pay for the first two years of a Pujols deal simply with the money from expiring contracts -- without increasing payroll at all. We'd hope, of course, that the Cubs would find cheaper replacements for Fukudome (maybe Brett Jackson?) and Silva and Lilly (from the farm system -- Andrew Cashner, maybe?), and thus could spend some money in other areas after 2011. You'd also figure that maybe the Cubs would win a World Series with Pujols in 2011, and the extra dough that you know would roll in from corporate sponsorships, etc. and maybe higher ad rates for TV and radio, could fund further payroll increases beginning in 2012.
Yeah, I know. It's all a pipedream, right? Still -- if Tom Ricketts wants to be the Cubs boss we all hope he can be, to lead the Cubs to the next level, he should encourage his GM, whether it's Jim Hendry or someone else, to investigate every possible way of putting Albert Pujols in blue pinstripes for 2011.
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The Problem with Pujols
is that he’s right-handed. So he doesn’t really fit our team.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Jan 6, 2010 8:05 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
he's also a base clogger. His OBP is way too high
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 6, 2010 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He expends way too much energy
from being on base so often. So much starting and stopping, run-scoring.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Plus he'd block our prospects for 1B
That’s not true!!! WHY THE F*CK WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU AHOLE!! Ok maybe your right but you gotta give a little something here for it to work. I don’t know what I’m going to do this is the worst thing I’ve ever read, this day could not get any worse. Fine, F*ck it, you’re right.
by Ditkavsworld
you mean Hoff-Power!??
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 6, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
and fox
OH WAIT STUPD IDIOT HENDRY TRADED HIM
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 6, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly, when Salty Saltwell was GM of the Cubs,
he was asked if his team was interested in getting Tom Seaver and his reply was, “No, we’re in the market for a left hander.”
Jim Hendry = Salty Saltwell II.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
you have a link for that?
Priceless Cubs ownership if it’s accurate?
Really? Not just a little suspicious?
A guy gets passed over by every team in baseball for 13 rounds and two years later hits almost 40 homers in the bigs? I can see the Cubs passing over a great player 13 times but every team in baseball? Just a little doubt?
I don't know who you're replying to
But the MLB draft is notoriously a crapshoot and a lot of talent gets passed over fairly regularly. See:
Mike Piazza (62nd round)
Don Mattingly (19th round)
Ryne Sandberg (20th round)
Kenny Lofton (17th round)
Roy Oswalt (23rd round)
Andre Dawson (11th round)
Jason Bay (22nd round)
Jake Peavy (15th round)
John Smoltz (22nd round)
Paul Molitor (28th round)
Mark Buehrle (38th round)
Those guys must all cheat too, right? Otherwise how would the geniuses who run baseball have passed over them so many times?
That's assuming
Lefty Lou is here in 2011.
When the hourglass strikes three, then in the room whence employees confer.
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 6, 2010 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I've a better idea
How about Cubs investigate grabbing Mauer as the new franchise face, and put the difference to use on pitching? What likely would be $50 million committed to Soriano and Pujols gives me the creeps.
People should accept that Pujol’s best years were with the Cardinals, regardless of where he end up after 2010. The Cubs shouldn’t be paying top dollar for what should be a productive, but inevitable decline.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 8:07 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Hm, that does make a lot of sense.
I guess it comes down to which will player will be more attainable. If the Yankees really want Mauer, it’s hard not to be intimidated by their, ahem, powers of negotiation. And, of course, there’s always the possibility that Mauer will want to remain loyal to his hometown Twins.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Mauer is the move
I completely agree. If Soto is still around, you can move him to first. Of course, for a catcher like Mauer, you’re going to be bidding against most of the big teams in baseball, but landing him could make the Cubs a contender for years.
I live down here in St. Louis, and as much as seeing Pujols leave town would just make me giggle, I gotta believe he’ll be here for his whole career.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
how crazy would that be
walking around St Louis the day after the signing in a Pujols Cubs jersey? I think you’d be beat up and make people cry all at once
If I was Pujols
I’d be afraid to come back to St. Louis
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Are you insinuating
that the “best fans in sports” would harm someone? Never!!!!!
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
No, I'd never do that....
Please don’t hurt me Cardinals fans!
By the way your sig is amazing. Reading dad gum put a smile on my face
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
If I haven't gotten a beating living in St Louis yet
I doubt it’s coming. You should see my desk at work. And my car’s only been broken into once and that was before affixing my Cubs sticker.
When the hourglass strikes three, then in the room whence employees confer.
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 6, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
+1
If Pujols is the best player in baseball right now, I think Mauer is unquestionably second-best – and he’s both younger and plays a much more critical position. And, heck, he might be able to hit .400 if he played his home games at Wrigley. Trouble is, if he doesn’t decide to stay with the Twins, the Yankees and Red Sox will both be offering him the moon. That’s not to say the Cubs can’t do the same, but I wouldn’t be confident about their chances. (That said, it’s still more likely than the Cubs signing Pujols, whom I seriously doubt will leave St. Louis in the forseeable future.)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
Mauer
The problem is that Mauer has, to use a Wanny-ism, a back. He may well end up needing to be a full time DH sooner rather than later. And that’s an AL position. He’s a perfect fit in New York and that’s where he will end up unless he gives Minny a major home town discount.
by frustratedfan on Jan 6, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
Well, yeah -
but I think it’s a little more likely that Pujols would leave than Mauer, given the comments each has made.
But Mauer would be terrific.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Jan 6, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Correction
The Cardinals hold a club option on Pujols for 2011, so he won’t be a Free Agent until the 2011-12 offseason.
IT'S GONNA HAPPEN ------------------------------------------------->
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
Well, your assuming they will pick up his $16,000,000 option for 2011....
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Won't some of our escalating contracts ...
negate the savings from Lilly and Lee in 2011? Dempster and Byrd are due raises, at the very least. I don’t have time to do research to look for more.
I agree with the idea of letting Lee and Lilly go after this season. Lee is getting older, and I’m not as optimistic that he’ll be as good in 2010 as he was in 2009. Also, Lilly’s surgery makes me wonder if he’s worth another long-term deal — and it pains me to say that.
I’d bet money that Pujols will be a Cardinal for life. But it will be nice to have payroll flexibility on the rare shot that he’ll be a FA.
Don't think so.
Much of the big money will come off the books (Lee, Ramirez (or maybe that’s his option year), Fukudome, Lilly.
You’d be left with Z, Demp and Soriano. Their salarys will have already reached the peak by 2011 so not much of an escalation.
(When I say big money, I mean players making $10 mill and above.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 6, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Dempster's salary keeps going up
As does Byrd’s. You might be right on the others.
oh, I see ...
Dempster’s contract goes up, but only slightly.
♬♫♫♪♩♬ Dream weaver
♬♫♫♪♩♬ I’ve just closed my eyes again
♬♫♫♪♩♬ Climbed aboard the dream weaver train
♬♫♫♪♩♬ Driver take away my worries of today
♬♫♫♪♩♬ And leave tomorrow behind
♬♫♫♪♩♬ Ooh dream weaver
♬♫♫♪♩♬ I believe you can get me through the night
♬♫♫♪♩♬ Ooh dream weaver
♬♫♫♪♩♬ I believe we can reach the morning light
etc. etc.
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Love the wind blown scarf and the eye gloss...
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
The sexy lavender eye shadow
makes the look work in more ways than one.
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Well, I'd like to think any smart major league baseball organization...
…would be, at the very least, exploring the possibility of making a run at essentially the best player in the game when he’s available. And this may be an area where Ricketts and his financial savvy comes into play in terms of moving around money and, perhaps, increasing the payroll.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
wont really need to increase payroll
our obligations after 2011 significantly decline
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html
we only have 62 million committed to the 2011 payroll and just the 19 from Soriano in 2012. I’ve been saying all offseason our next big opportunity to compete is the 2011 offseason, by then the hope is we have some cheap talent producing (maybe Castro and one or two of Cashner, Jackson, Carpenter, maybe 2 bullpen guys). If we’re smart and don’t add on a ton of big long-term commitments, we’d have the flexibility to make a run at someone like Pujols
the 2012 team could look something like this:
C – Soto (would be arb eligible)
1B – Pujols (monstrous contract)
2B – someone from system or short-term FA fill-in
SS – Castro
3B – Vitters or short-term FA fill-in
LF – Soriano… sigh
CF – Felix Pie (oh wait..) Jackson or short-term fill in
RF – need someone here
Rotation:
SP – Dempster
SP – Zambrano
SP – Wells
Then we’d need two guys from Gorzelanny, Cashner, Jackson, Carpenter to round out the rotation
Its very realistic to have the funds available to make the biggest push for either Pujols OR Adrian Gonzalez who would also be a FA that offseason
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
woops edit
62 million committed to 2012 payroll, 19 committed to 2013
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
that's an important edit ...
we still have $100 million or so committed for 2011.
yes...
but Pujols isn’t a FA until AFTER 2011… so it doesn’t really matter that much for the discussion at hand
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Interesting, thanks.
Well, if nothing else, that’s something to look forward to.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
that's my mantra!
n/t
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
2B would probably be Theriot
If Lee is ready, Castro would be moved to 2B
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
you're right
Theriot would be in his last arb year according to Cot’s
I thought he’d be gone by then which is why i didn’t include him
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
Gotcha
Almost made that mistake with Byrd but I realized he’ll be gone
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I don't want Albert Pujols.
I don’t want an icon. I don’t want the biggest star in the game. I want a TEAM. I don’t want to be sitting here in 2013 with Albert at first base — reading posts by people wondering if the next Sam Fuld can handle centerfield. The Cubs have been icon-based for too long. They have sold us leading men from Bill Buckner to Mark Grace to Derrek Lee all my life. Granted, they were all terrific but Cubs management seemed happy to have teeny-bopper fans scream their lungs off over the latest handsome number three hitter without any concern that there are eight other positions on the diamond. Rather than devote such huge cash resources to superstars like Alfonso Soriano (who isn’t) or, theoretically, Albert Pujols (who is), I’d feel more comfortable if we could actually have a major league double play combination, a dependable catcher, and a few other things that actually go into the making of a championship team.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jan 6, 2010 8:36 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
Having just read a complete history of the Cubs...
…I understand what you’re saying. But if you take a look at Dartmouth’s comment above, you’ll see that the Cubs could, theoretically, make a run at Pujols while having good players (depending on how the team’s young talent develops) at many other positions.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
The key is developing young talent within the organization
Clearly, a Pujols type would make things difficult for us if we continued to rely almost entirely on FA signings and trading for non-cost-controlled players.
Ricketts has at least publicly pledged that we’re going to try to do this, but we’ll see if it ends up panning out.
"Don't want Pujols"
“No Icon” wow, I guess 101 years is not long enough for you. Money comes off the books, it is doable to get in the discussion of obtaining Pujols. To not even consider that is bad business. This is simply the best player in baseball you are talking about. And as Al has mentioned financially he could fit at 20M plus a year.
This is the worst thing every posted on this blog
And I mean every
by GoBackToSchaumburg on Jan 6, 2010 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
I wish I could block this horrible post.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Jan 6, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Albert Pujols
… isn’t in the same galaxy as Mark Grace and Bill Buckner. Or even Derrek Lee. Horrible, horrible reasoning here.
by elgato on Jan 6, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm so glad someone said this!
Iconic lust is what has helped create the infamous 101 years. All the way cap from Cap Anson to Milton Bradley — Cubs fans have assumed that one big deal could break the curse! (Of course, in Anson’s day there was no curse — because a single, stellar player could carry a team.)
Yeah, Pujols is amazing — maybe the best ever? — but he’s already crossed the aging threshold (27 to 29). So his first few years with us will be a wild ride — we will watch in awe as his three home runs aren’t enough to overcome our five run deficit in the 2012 NLDS and cheer wildly as his 500th home run smacks Waveland asphalt in the last game before the 2013 All Star Break, but he would just be another Dan Marino until management can better control their spending and farm system.
Yeah, we could “financially fit” Pujols, but he would fit with the same, just-not-good-enough team around him that has fallen short in years past.
With that much money and hope contingent on one man’s aging (though still young) body, the future is bound to only repeat. Like a stock portfolio doused in un-diversified elements, we’ll be broke the next year, asking “Maybe 2012?”
Hooray for CubsStats.blogspot.com !
why are you assuming that with Pujols ...
the Cubs couldn’t put enough players around him?
And I find it laughable that you consider the signing of Milton effing Bradley to have been inspired by iconic lust. What are you smoking?
True, it may be an unfair assumption that management
would fail to create a winning environment around Pujols. I definitely believe that teams can win given large budget constraints (see the Tampa Bay Rays, Oakland A’s — circa ’95 to ’03 — etc.), but Cubs history has made me a pessimist in this regard.
I’m sorry, I don’t know any other way to look at the Milton Bradley signing: he was THE free agent last year, he was coming off an amazing (statistically suspicious) season, and signed to a huge multi-year contract.
Hooray for CubsStats.blogspot.com !
How did this turn green and get rec'd 4 times?
All those other players you compared to Pujols are just dust in the wind….
"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.
Can I
unrec this post?
Albert Pujols is easily the best player in modern baseball, and is in the discussion for best hitter ever (I don’t think he’s the best, but he’s up there). If you don’t want him, whatever your rationale is, I have to question your baseball decision making ability.
DEJESUS!!!
Say What?
I don’t want an icon. I don’t want the biggest star in the game.
ok… I’m not quite sure I get the reasoning…
You don’t want one of the best players in baseball in a Cubs uniform… because he is an icon in the game of baseball because he is one of the best there is…?
and comparing Albert Puhols to Gracie or Buckner is like comparing George Carlin to your uncles who make your family laugh at the reunion picnic every year…
I love Gracie and I think he should be in the HoF… but trying to compare them to AP is a stretch of monumental proportions…
- Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
- Germans?
- Forget it, he's rolling.
I think Pujols is an amazing player
However I’m still very suspicious of his accomplishments in this day and age. He’s already had a few back problems and I fear he’ll start breaking down even more in the near future.
I'm not as suspicious of his accomplishments.
That swing and his ability to hit for contact are pure talent. I’m suspicious of the health in his arms currently and his legs as he ages because he’s a big dude.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
+1
Pujols is just naturally that good. His HR totals aren’t Bonds or Sosa like and he consistently does it year in and year out. I don’t think he’s juicing.
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
You're not suspicious at all? Maybe just a teensy bit?
A guy gets passed over by every team in baseball for 13 rounds and two years later bats .325 and hits almost 40 homers in the bigs? I can see the Cubs passing over a great player 13 times but every team in baseball? Just a little suspicion? Tiny bit?
Two Words
Mike Piazza
Two more: Tom Brady
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
I'm not sure Mike Piazza is the best example.
He’s also rumored to have been chemically enhanced.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Jan 6, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
31st round or something really low like that
The guy still was a good catcher and hitter despite being drafted that low, steroids or not
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
so why didn't anyone pick him up until the 13th! round
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
Because on a few scouts considered him as good as another
Cust, Fox or Hoffpauir. Turns out he’s pretty good at first and a much better hitter.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Plus,
he was labeded as potentially overweight and as a defensive liability.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I remember reading the defensive liability part
He was pegged as a future DH. Not many of those get picked up early. I think this was all in a SI article when he busted out
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Also, from a small city/school with limited exposure..
..and serious questions about level of competition. Same story with Don Mattingly. I don’t know why its hard to believe that in a player pool of thousands and thousands that a diamond could be found in the rough.
Free Melodi Dushane
Cardinals aren't that stupid
Pujols will be locked up tighter than a nun’s panties
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Sounds like you have intimate knowledge there, Worf! ;-)
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
He, BLou and Albert spent some time together in Concourse C of the STL airport.
:-)
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Is that when BLou became a Cardinals fan?
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
Worf? A nun?
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Is there a picture supposed to be here?
If so, picture fail, at least on my computer.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
On this occasion the picture was disgarded to protect the innocent...
The thought is baaaaaaaad enough
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Yeah, my eyes would begin bleeding if I saw that.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I've seen a nun's panties and they aren't that tight.
Man, I’m goin’ to hell for SURE now…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
I'd have to say, that was a little too much information there.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
I was kidding. Parochial school may have warped me, but not THAT much...
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Ok, in fairness, I DIDN'T post a visual...
So I have that going for me. Which is nice…
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
I just wanted to be sure that you wouldn't be lonely down there...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
i know a church near me that needs more nuns
are you willing to take one for the team?
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 6, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
How could you not
entertain the thought of having Albert on your team. If the Cubs let Lee go, they better be in the room with Pujols. This guy is the best player in baseball.
Having the best player in the game is a luxury...
having the best team on the field is the goal.
Joe, you coulda made us proud!
by copingwiththecubs on Jan 6, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
And
Pujols at 25 million a year, the best hitter this planet has seen does not make the Cubs instantly better then ever.
The Cards both won a pennant and a WS with Pujols and teams that were not the best on paper
Having a hitter like Pujols in their lineup certainly didnt hurt them in any way, icon or not.
Because the question isn't about
the 2005 – 2009 version of Pujols, or even the 2011 – 2013. It’s the back end of what should be a long and expensive contract that you have trouble with, when you’re likely paying him upwards of $35 million a year, and you don’t have the luxury of DHing a guy who’s starting to show early signs of wear.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
I'm torn
Do I hope for the DH so the Cubs can get some defensive relief as Soriano declines, or do I continue to condemn the DH because it’s an abortion of a rule?
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions
How 'bout this?
We put the DH in the NL… for let’s say… a 5 year “experiment”.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
NO! NO! NO! - He cried with pain in his voice...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
And then return
to real baseball after?
Is it April?
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 6, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
How 'bout this?
We take the DL out of the AL… for let’s say… a 5 year “experiment”.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
DH out of the AL*
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
Nah, take the disabled list out of the American League!
Make those pantie-waists play through their bumps and bruises.
Now only 12,859 on the "Cubs Season Tickets Waiting List"...
You should never explain jokes but...
I don’t think I made it very clear. I hate the DH too, but I empathized with the good doctor’s comment/question. So, I just threw the idea out there that we should have a DH until Soriano’s contract is up, and then go back to real baseball immediately there-after.
"Whoever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" - Frank Chance
Ah, good point.
I clearly missed that, sorry.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
bit your tongue!
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
by digitalbenjamin on Jan 6, 2010 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
no you didn't!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
This isn't Soriano
this player is beyond unique. He will go down as the best hitter in baseball. I find it funny how we find ways to nit pick at Pujols.
I'm not nitpicking at all...
And to be frank, I’m actually a touch insulted that you suggested that I did. This isn’t a Pujols conversation. If I thought that as a GM I could keep a contract length in the 5-7 year range, I’d fall over myself to get in one this deal, even if I’d likely severely overpay in the tail end. However, I expect Pujols to see a 10 year deal in some form or another, and as that GM, I need to be thinking about paying a guy in his late 30’s what would likely be $30 – 40 million per. Unless you feel that a franchise should count on a 40-year old to produce a 1.000 OPS.
He’s starting to show physical wear, and some of it is reportedly chronic. That’s not nitpicking, that’s a fact. And you better make sure that you can manage a situation like that before you commit a quarter BILLION dollars to a player.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Only an idiot (*cough* Hendry *cough*) would backload a contract like that
Al proposed trying to make his contract frontloaded, similar to A-Rod’s. As A-Rod declines, his salary will go down too, thus not hamstringing his management with a totally unmoveable contract.
That's actually not backloading...
That’s anticipating a fairly normal escalation in dollars over the course of Pujol’s next deal. I’m fairy comfortable in the notion that he will be baseball’s next $30 million man.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
You might give him a contract worth $30m/year
But the right thing to do would be to structure it so you pay him over $30m towards the beginning and less than that towards the end. Using WAR, he’s been worth about $37m/year the past 3 years in production, so paying more now should theoretically be worth it.
That said, the economy in 2011 is going to have to be a lot better than it is right now for Pujols to get a contract averaging that much. Even though he’s the better player than A-Rod, I expect Alex won’t get paid much more than him due to the different economic climate.
I have nothing but respect for what
Pujols has accomplished and according to three of the BR referenced HOF trackers, he’s already worthy of HOF after 9 seasons. I assumed all 4 would agree.
After 2011 as azjazzman points out is really the year, Pujols will be 31 and looking for his one last big contract. St. Louis has proven to him they are not saving money for his contract, rather making certain to surround Pujols with talent worthy of contenders. I anticipate him to stay in STL and accept a fair contract to stay.
That said, if he was on the open market, as good as he’s been and as good as we’d expect him to be until he’s 35, is a 7-8 year contract averaging $25M+ per year the best investment for the Cubs and improve the chances to win during that contract?
Maybe I’m gun shy, but I’m leary of large guaranteed contracts for guys signed in their early 30’s that locks them down with the obligitory NTC’s that see them to 40. Even for guys who are probable first ballot hall of famers.
Cinci signed Griffey at roughly age 30, after 10 all world years in Seattle, to a similar contract in length and value (for the time). That didn’t work out so well.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
by N Oakley on Jan 6, 2010 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You sir
Are no longer thinking like a fan, but like a discerning GM. Fair questions and concerns, all.
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
All I've said for years is I want the Cubs to be built
to contend year in and year out, develop talent from the system and supplement with free agents who fill needs and buy time for guys within the system to develop.
The last thing I want is a team with aging guys, declining production, and contracts that can’t be moved because of either dollars or NTCs or both.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
the thing about truly elite FA's
is they allow to supplement around them with the system
trust me i’m on your side as to developing from within, but IF you’re going to spend at all in FA and the Cubs are they’re a big market team, it should be on the truly elite guys… like Pujols
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
True, but overpay for their prime, so they're
not an albatross after the fall.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
the structure of FA
doesn’t allow you the opportunity to overpay for their prime
95+% of players hit FA at the tail end of their prime 29, 30, 31 and beyond
very few examples hit FA IN their prime, waiting around for that (while i agree should be a focus), would likely be waiting around a long time
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
Griffey is a great name to remember in this context.
And Griffey was playing a prime defensive position – Albert plays great 1B defense, but it’s still 1B.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Jan 6, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
I think Griffey's a somewhat positive example
for the first 5 years his rate stats were still ~.900+ OPS, the problem was he started developing leg injuries that were due to playing the premier defensive position
The big difference between Pujols and Griffey is: 1) Much of Pujols value isn’t tied to being a superior “athlete” (in the normal use of the term), its from superior plate discipline and power. While the bat speed might slow, the plate discipline won’t drop-off dramatically. Players like Griffey the legs he relied on started to go and it cascaded. Pujols shouldn’t have those concerns because he’s pegged to 1B
So from my vantage point I think, heck Griffey remained a similar hitter for the first half of the contract, only injuries started to slow him down and some of those injuries were the result of the position he was being asked to play. With Albert that might not be the case
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Griffey only played complete seasons in his
first and last full years in Cinci, exceeded his career OPS in only three years there, the 1st, 4th, & 6th, exceeded his career BA in only 2 years, and career OBP in 2 years.
Griffey’s Cinci years dragged down his averages in all three areas. I’m just pointing out Pujols is a big guy and ages 35-40 are no mans land and a couple of great years don’t make a contract great. Soriano had two really good years. Will those two make the full 8 years of his contract a success if the remainder are like 2009? Of course not.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
agreed
he’s not going to perform at the same level of his peak
but a player like Pujols has sooo much value above everyone else it takes a while for that value to wind its way down to below average. I’d say if he gave 5 elite years, 3 above average years, and 2 average to below average years on a 10 year deal that would be worth it
Soriano’s got 2 above average, 1 below average in his first 3
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Griffey's an example with positives and negatives.
One of the things about Griffey is that he had good health going into that contract, and there was certainly some hoping that his legacy would sell tickets at the back end of the contract when he was chasing lifetime awards, and he gave a hometown discount.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
If your team went to the world series 3 years in a row (2011, 2012, 2013)
you wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about the back end of that contract.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Yeah, and if the Cubs had gone in 2007, 2008, 2009
No one would care about Soriano’s contract, either.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Jan 6, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
That's like saying...
that if the apocalypse came tomorrow, then I wouldn’t worry about maxing out my credit card. Should I go make purchases based off of that incredibly remote possibility?
by Damen Jackson on Jan 6, 2010 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Sort of like saying...
… we shouldn’t trade Z because he might go win a world series for the Mets.
With that line of thinking, i’d never step out of my house. Too many diseases, crazy drivers, and cranes waiting to drop pianos on my head!
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
There's no hypochondriacs in baseball!
When the hourglass strikes three, then in the room whence employees confer.
by neverAcquiesce on Jan 6, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
generally i agree with your sentiment
with regards to aging players, but Pujols may be a different animal. Among his best skill sets is his plate discipline. As he ages he won’t lose this
In addition uber-elite players tend to decline slower and over a longer period of time than the traditional aging curves
Sure when he’s approaching 40 it’s unlikely to assume he’ll produce as if he was 26-31, but its not unlikely that his “peak” is longer than the traditional 26-31, and his decline is slower
Plus he’s got so far to decline to get down to a league average player… I think if you gave him an 8 year deal, he’d probably be pretty damn productive for the first 6 or so
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
Is his age
accurate…that would be a concern I would have…at least a minimal concern. Past players from the Dominican (i.e. Tejada) have had age questions…
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
He did go to high school and college in the States.
I mean, i suppose he could have been faking it since he was 14 but I think he’s about as safe a Dominican player as there could be. It’s not like he was signed off the island. He moved to the U.S. (hence the whole getting drafted part) at a very young age.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Not going to happen.
I drove through St. Louis the other day, so I have a very keen insight as to the financial goings-on of the St. Louis Cardinals organization. They are going to lock him up with an extension. While the Cubs will be stuck with the Guess Hitting Hack.
/sarcasm
It is fun to think about having Pujols on the team. It will be interesting to see how his situation plays out…and who knows, maybe it will happen.
This post is Cruel and Unusual punishment
I’m pretty sure it’s banned by the Geneva Convention.
Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?
One Cruel and Unusual Punishment? Right away, sir!
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
But you know what? The Doctor always wants to have the last word!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Here you go, redefining prostate exams!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Mr. Natural prefers using an Electric Eel
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
The only problem with that is that this could happen.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Do as you are told, the doctor knows best...
Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -
@Twitter as @brommmietze
I did a fanpost on this...
… last summer. Read it here. The main premise at the time was that Pujols and TLR were very close, and that TLR would stay as long as the front office showed a commitment to winning. As long as TLR stayed, Pujols would.
And have no doubt: If La Russa leaves, Pujols probably isn’t far behind, because the only reason La Russa would leave is the same reason Pujols would leave: This Franchise Does Not Have What It Takes To Win. The Cardinals simply cannot afford to pay what Pujols is worth on the open market, something Pujols is aware of; he’s always said as long as the Cardinals remain “committed to winning,” he’ll stay.
Well, the Holliday deal shows a pretty deep commitment to winning. And as recently as 2 months ago, Pujols has been on the radio saying things like:
“The fans know and the Cardinals know that I want to be a Cardinal for my whole career,” Pujols told WXOS-FM on Thursday. “I love this city. The way that this city has embraced me and my family.”
And:
The two-time NL MVP said he wanted the Cardinals to concentrate on signing Matt Holiday and other free agents first.
On Thursday, he reiterated that there is no rush but “if they come tomorrow and say ‘Albert, you know, we want to lock you up,’ hey, they know that we’re open to that.”
This is fun to dream about, but in terms of a practical big move, i’d rather focus on Mauer. I fear our efforts on Pujols would be wasted.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jan 6, 2010 9:31 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Well the other discussion to have then
is how much Pujols would hamstring their budget. At minimum, he’s a 20-23 M player, right? So that’s 40 M of a 100 M budget tied up into a LF and a 1B. Ideally, he’s a 27-30 M player, which could take us up closer to half of their budget on two players.
Now Colby Rasmus could be an excellent, cheap CF for the next few years. That would help. But otherwise, there’s no one else there to be cheap and above average.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Jan 6, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions
It comes down to what he'd accept to stay.
Don’t you have to assume the Cards had some idea before they committed to Holliday? I guess I can’t believe they’d commit to Holliday if they thought it would tie up too much budget and run off Albert.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Yeah, I have to believe Holliday's deal must be related to resigning Pujols.
The questions is: Where/when does the money run out?
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
If the Cards had some definite idea, he'd be signed, wouldn't he?
Why is Albert waiting to extend? The pressure on Albert from the players’ union will be extreme. And JM didn’t handle these Holliday negotiations all that well – for goodness’ sakes – when Boras tried to suggest another bidder, Andy McPhail came out in hours denying the report – and Holliday still got his deal.
You can assume a few different things. You can assume the Cards have done the math and are ok.
You could also assume that the Cards knew this – they didn’t have a chance to sign Albert if they didn’t sign Holliday, and they’re hoping his discount is big enough to still field a competitive team. They may be resigned to having to re-sign Pujols even if it doesn’t mean they’ll be able to be competitive, just because from their perspective the PR hit of losing Pujols may be worse than the PR hit of losing for several seasons.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
or...
they could just be going for it now when the rest of the division is in transition. As currently constructed they look like a pretty good bet for the remaining 2 years of Albert’s contract
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
or.........
……..they know they won’t likely be able to retain Pujols down the road so they ink Holliday now to be the new cornerstone of the team. Then over the next 18 months, the Cards front office swings a deal to move Pujols for a bevy of prospects.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
that
seems ridiculous
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
If they indeed are hoping to hold their payroll to the $100 million level, how can they do that by having +$40 million tied up in two players?
Going into 2012, they will still be paying Loshe +$12 million with Wainright and Molina looking for serious cash.
Their farm sucks, and aside from Rasmus, they lack talented players at the MLB level. By 2012, Carpenter will be gone; Ludwick too. With gaping holes at 3B, SS, RF, the bullpen and the rotation (after Wainright), I don’t see how they can make it work by handing Pujols +$25 mil per year.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
but they wouldn't trade him
they’d let him walk
They’re built to win now around a core of Carpenter, Wainwright, Pujols, Holliday.
I’m not saying they for sure can afford him, I’m simply saying there’s no way they’d trade him. There isn’t a possible way you could get equal value and the fans would riot. If you make a legitimate effort to sign the guy and he walks, fans will be disappointed but split their anger between the player and the org. If you trade the player all the hate is coming on the org, and that’s just a small component, the bigger reason is there’s no way they’d trade him after just committing to this window of opportunity by signing holliday
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 6, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
I see your point.
A trade would have ramifications, for sure.
Nonetheless, the signing of Holliday may have been strategic in the sense that Pujols will be walking at the end of 2011.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
One passing thought...
…is I wonder how Dave Duncan figures into this. You have to figure at some point the Holliday and (prospective) Pujols contracts are going to make it exceedingly difficult for the Cardinals to hold on to or otherwise invest in top-flight pitching. But Duncan enables them to get more from less in that regard. If he retires, however, I could see the Cards going the way of the Brewers – with a great middle of the order but a very shaky pitching staff.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
by daver on Jan 6, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Duncan almost left this year as well. I think the Cardinals will be screwed either way on Pujols. If you re-sign him, you have a great 3-4 but nothing else. If you don’t you lose the best hitter in the game.
And their system is pretty depleted after trading for him and DeRosa
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
Duncan threw a hissy fit over the trade involving his kid.
I think he’s over it now though.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Yeah I remember that
But I thought he was going to go wherever TLR went
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
He always was and he always will.
He just wanted to feel like he was heard so he puffed his chest up and tried to act like his son could still actually play baseball (which he couldn’t). It was all a show by a proud (and stubborn) father.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I was assuming they are being prudent and waiting to be certain
Prince Albert’s arm is healthy before committing the next decade of the franchise to him.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
You're assuming you know the extents to what the Cardinals budget can go to.
And I doubt what has been seen the past couple of seasons is indicitive of the limit. They outbid the Blue Jays for Burnett, but he signed with Toronto anyway (had something to do with a clause in the contract or something).
Just because they’ve held at around 100M (or just below) doesn’t mean that’s where they have to stay. Actually, they’ve probably been doing it for a reason (i.e., not spending money on players who either don’t actually upgrade the roster over what they already have or players who hamstring them down the road). I think the Cards have been saving up (for lack of a better term) for a purchase like Holliday and have had Pujols’ contract in mind the entire time. They felt Holliday was the piece to fill out the roster (they’ve actually been after him for a couple of seasons).
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
I was under the impression...
… that they’d explicitly stated that they wish to stay around $100 million. That new stadium wasn’t cheap….
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Jan 6, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
They say those things for PR purposses.
Why would you commit to much higher payrolls when you know you’ve got cost controlled players in RF, CF, SS, 2B, C, and your top (or 2nd depending on how you look at it) starting pitcher, as well as a bunch of your bullpen when there’s nothing on the market you’re interested in?
If you go out and say, “we’ll spend 130M dollars” knowing full well that you aren’t really all that intersted in anything that would drive your salary up that high, and then you end up with a 90M dollar payroll, you look like you’ve failed at your job. Besides, they’ve always made the caveat that more money was always available if the right player were to come available. There never was an explicit statement ever saying they couldn’t go over 100M.
I think it’s pretty obvious they’ve targeted Holliday for a couple of seasons and he’s the guy who they felt was worth it.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Yes...
they said this several weeks ago…at least I heard it on the Radio here from Dewitt III. Folks have to remember that they are in a small media market so the don’t have the additional revenue streams that Yankees, Sox, Angels, etc have.
Maybe those are conjectures…but they have been saying that for several years…i.e. holding the line on payroll…which as u alluded to probably has something to do with the new ballpark
"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root
by TheRiot Police on Jan 6, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
but they've always maintained the stance
that there was plenty of money there for the right player. Obviously, Holliday was the guy they’ve had in mind for a long time. They just weren’t going to to throw money at their problems just to appease some fans who only think your trying if you’re spending money.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
Now 3x MVP, 3x MVP Runner Up
ROY, 8 time All Star, 5 SS, 2x Hank Aaron award winner, 1x Roberto Clemente award winner, 2 batting titles, 9 straight seasons over 100 RBIs, career active leader in BA.
With all that, what hurts most is he’s a product of the Cardinal system, drafted in the 13th round and developed.
at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!
Wainwright
I’d concetrate on Adam Wainwright. Young stud who may only get better. How can they possibly sign HIM on top of Albert & Holliday?
"It's a funny old world. Man's lucky if he gets out of it alive." W.C. Fields
I dream of
Albert Pujols riding towards me on a brilliant white unicorn with his flowing hair (just a better image) flying in the wind, with a humungous bat in one hand and dragging the recently won Cubs World Series trophy across the cubs parking lot behind him (ala George Costanza on Seinfeld).
NSFW! NSFW!
Or anywhere else, for that matter.
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
Are you familiar with the old robot saying, "Does not compute"?
by dr stabbingworth on Jan 6, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
How many steroids did A-Rod put in that body there????
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
That's a BIG needle!
"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 6, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
I suppose a unicorn is the only thing Matt Murton and Albert Pujols will ever have in common.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
Was that my
Big Boy voice? Doh!
Sorry if I inserted sarcasm into what was surely an otherwise serious conversation…
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 6, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
It would be sweet,
but it won’t happen. Babe Ruth switched to a hated rivel for money, but Pujols is not in it for money.
by Don't Fear the Reaper on Jan 6, 2010 10:21 AM CST reply actions
Actually, Babe Ruth..........
……….was switched by OWNERSHIP to a hated rival for the need of money. Don’t blame the Babe for the greed in that one.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
no kidding.
he was sold to the Yankees waaaayyyy before Free Agency ever existed.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
he was sold
so that the owner of the Red Sox could put on a Follies show. If you can believe that.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Jan 6, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don't believe that anymore.
They really sold that story well.
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana
I believe it...
Correct me if I’m wrong… Harry Frazee, producer of stage shows, owned the Red Sox at the time, right?
by Steven Schweickert on Jan 10, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
Umm...
Pujols won’t be a free agent until after the 2011 season. The Cards hold a 16M team option. Frankly, I’m expecting them to extend Pujols before spring training of this year, but that’s just my opinion.
I personally feel that there’s next to zero chance that Albert leaves.
This is a dark day.
The Cubs chances of winning the division in 2010 went down significantly.
Tom Ricketts needs to open up the checkbook. He doesn’t need to go on a hog wild spending spree. But another $10M in 1-2 year deals are needed at this point to keep pace with the Cardinals, who are the clear favorites right now.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Jan 6, 2010 12:51 PM CST reply actions
I mostly agree
But I don’t think the Cardinals would have stood pat if they hadn’t re-signed Holliday. They probably would have made a run at Jason Bay or another bat to compliment Pujols.
The Cubs do need to make another move because getting Holliday back was the BEST thing the Cardinals could have done for their chances in 2010.
Bay was gone though.
The Cardinals were running out of options when they inked Holliday.
IAt this point, the Cubs need more than one move. They’re projected to finish 4-5 wins back of St. Louis. I don’t think there are any players on the FA market or rumored to be available via trade that will add that to the Cubs. They need more like 3 moves at this point, and more money than Ricketts is willing to spend.
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Jan 6, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly, it doesn't feel like Hendry has three moves left in him.
I could see some bullpen additions happening perhaps. Other than that…maybe an outfield utility guy? I think we’re just going to have to hope the ’10 team scraps its butt off and the Cardinals suffer some setbacks of one kind or another.
Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.
three moves:
Sign Kiko Calero
Sign Orlando Hudson
Sign/trade for a right-handed fourth outfielder who can platoon with Kosuke.
I would go with:
1.) Sign Ben Sheets
2.) Sign Aroldis Chapman
3.) Sign Kiko Calero or John Smoltz, or trade for another bullpen arm
4.) If you can, grab Russell Branyan for a 2-year deal
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on Jan 6, 2010 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
That would be great
But I don’t think it’s realistic. Sheets AND Chapman?
We know the Cubs don’t have much money to spend. I’m trying to temper my expectations without destroying my hopes.
also, the Cardinals had been working on Holliday for a while ...
If they knew they couldn’t sign him three weeks ago, they could have gone after Bay.
Wow
That got me excited Al. I can’t see Pujols ever leaving the Cards, unless it was at the end of his career and he was holding on well past his prime. The only thing Card fans love as much as calling themselves the best fans in baseball, is Alby Pujols.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
Different line of thought - I'd actually like to see Pujols stay with the Cards and Mauer stay with the Twins.
Not that I wouldn’t be thrilled to see their production on the Cubs. But for the longer-term good of baseball it is better to see players stay with teams they are identified, instead of automatically being whisked off to they Yankees, or the team that had to outbid the Yankees, when they become free agents.
Let them stay where they are and let the Cubs develop a team to beat them anyway.
and they will
Mauer, Pujols, Rivera and Jeter: maybe the closest thing to ‘untouchable’ as there is in baseball in 2010.
Interesting read...
… and related:
<a href=“http:// ”http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0612/gallery.mlb.100million.dollar.men/content.1.html?eref=twitter_feed" target="_blank">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0612/gallery.mlb.100million.dollar.men/content.1.html?eref=twitter_feed" target="new">The 19 $100 Million Men in Baseball (from SI)
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Ok, links are working for some reason. Go here:
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Did you see the pics there of Dawson.....he looked best in
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
oops....the Cubs uniform (first picture)
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby
By the looks of my photo....
..this idea seems to be a certainty.
"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry
ramirez to 1st mauer at catcher?
previously it has been briefly discussed that after lee, ramirez could move to 1st, his more natural position. If he continues to hit incredibly well….the cubs could go after mauer rather than pujols for catcher, especially if soto does not improve greatly from his 2009 season. If this occurs in 2010, i see them looking for a catcher in 2011 and mauer might just be right…
Interesting...
I guess Ramirez could go to first and we can find another third baseman that’s less fragile. Unless, Josh Vitters turns out to be what he’s supposed to be as a third pick. If he’s not and Ramirez doesn’t want to move to first, I wouldn’t mind bringing D-Lee back. I probably wouldn’t be able to do it thought since you cannot give him a long deal anymore. At least he’s going to be busting his butt on the field to show he deserves the money!
I LOVE Joe Mauer, and unfortunately for Z, he has taken his spot as my favorite baseball player. I would probably die if Mauer became a Cub, but I still don’t want it to happen. He’s a Minnesota man, the face of the Twins, and he should stay there as long as possible. I really hope he doesn’t pull a Johan and want to go to a big market.
"I don't talk. I just let what I do talk for myself." -Johan Santana
This strikes me as incredibly wishful thinking
most of all b/c for all we know Ricketts will be a tightwad
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
another idea
is that pujols, gonzalez and fielder are all fa’s after 2011. Since Lee’s contract expires after 2010, who do they get to bridge the gap?
Theriot
He won’t be better than Castro at SS or either of our 2B, but he’s got to play because he’s a GRINDER.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
by DGU on Jan 6, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Notable potential FA 1B after 2010....
Lance Berkman HOU * (has a $15mil club option for 2011)
Wes Helms FLA
Jason Giambi COL
Ross Gload FLA
Paul Konerko CWS
Derrek Lee CHC
David Ortiz BOS * ($12.5 mil club option for 2011)
Lyle Overbay TOR
Carlos Pena TB
Albert Pujols * ($16 mil club option for 2011)
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
would any take a one year contract?
if cards pick up option which i would assume they would they would need one year for pujols
if the Cubs were really smart
they’d work on a 1 year extension with DLee right now, the reason being he’ll be more open to it now than signing a 1 year deal after the season
Plus one thing I’m thinking about making a larger post on is trying to line up your best players contracts to expire when other great players at that position are likely to be FA’s. If you do that you can “flood” the market in a sense and hopefully by flooding the market you create more supply and thus less demand, hoping to cost you less on the contract.
With some long-term planning it wouldn’t be “that” hard.
For example after 2011 Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder are all FAs. If the Cubs were able to extend DLee on a 1 year deal, they could add him to that mix. Obviously he wouldn’t have the same value tied to those other players who will be younger and more elite, but he provides another fallback option for teams who want to spend less. This may drive out competitors for the big 3 and may also lower the cost base as the market is more flooded with supply
That’s one thing i’d love the Cubs to incorporate into their planning. Obviously players contracts should be negotiated based on the idea of how long they’ll be able to hold the value of the dollars being paid, but once in contracts, extensions should be looked at to help time the market
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 7, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
what are the chances that he would actually sign a one year extension…as you said he probably would have more market a year earlier
well...
i’m not sure what the chances are, but if he’s unwilling to waive his NTC then perhaps he wants to stay and could be convinced of a one year extension, especially if its given as sort of an ultimatum of “we’re either going to do a 1 year extension now or we won’t be interested in discussing anything after the season”
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 7, 2010 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, you are dreaming
It is a very nice dream, but still a dream.
by cubssouvenirman on Jan 7, 2010 11:34 AM CST reply actions
just a thought....
But IMO the entire premise of this little dream is off. To think that you could pull Pujols away from the Cardinals, and also presumably outbid the Red Sox, and Yankees for 25 mil is laughable. My biggest concern as a Cardinal fan is the Yankees, even though they don’t have a need at first base. The only way I can see Pujols leaving for money is with a ridiculous Yankee offer. You have to assume the Cardinals will match most offers up to a point, and the only team I see going “well beyond” that point is NY. Just my thought. I just don’t see Pujols going to the Mets, Cubs etc. for an additional 1-2 mil a year.
it wouldn't be for 1-2 million
that’s the whole point. The Cubs would have a payroll around 62 million, that leaves 60-80 million additional budget remaining to field their team. They could make a Yankee like offer to Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, or Prince Fielder. The Yankees have 107 million tied up in 2012 payroll and this doesn’t include Jeter who you figure they’ll extend this year. They’ll already have Tex tied up at 1B so it’s unlikely they’d pour 55+ million into 1B-DH. Boston will be the other team that has a lot of financial flexibility and you have to figure they’re targeting at least one of Pujols/Gonzalez/Fielder
I don’t think we’re saying its likely, its probably more likely that the Cardinals retain Pujols than lose him, but if he hits FA…. The Cubs would have to be one of the top 3 destinations in terms of being able to offer 25+ million a year and having a need
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 8, 2010 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
I understand
what you’re saying, but I don’t personally ever put anything past the Yankees financially. If they wanted to spend 300 mil on a payroll, they could. There is not a single team in all of baseball that compares with them, as much as we all like to throw the Red Sox under that same bus, they’re in a different universe. The Cubs are not in that universe either, and my point is that I don’t see the Cubs, or Mets, or Red Sox (though they have the best chance) offering so much money that the Cardinals can’t compete with it. There are two factors for this..
A. If the Cards offer 25 mil, and the Cubs offer 27. I don’t think Pujols would leave for that amount more
B. If the Cards are willing to pay 25 for Pujols, they’re willing to pay 27.
So thats how I reach the conclusion the Yankees are the only serious threat…Of course, if Pujols ever gets to FA, I would have to assume something went wrong with the Cards, which may make this entire point null and void.
i don't disagree
he’s not going to leave the Cards over say 2 million a year
but you’re assuming the Cards are willing to offer 25+, i think that’s the big question. If they are they’ll likely keep him, if not they’re not going to keep him
ARod got something like 30 a year, Pujols is going to command similar if not more. So while we’re throwing around numbers in the 20’s, i think it might take into the 30’s
At that point you have to wonder if a team who has never expanded its payroll even to the 100 plateau, can be in the game
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 8, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
The Cards...
have actually been around or over 100 mil pretty routinely. Last year, was not the norm.
i've been talking about this at work
for a couple of months. I suggest we offer him an extra 50 mil to wear a Cubs cap into the hall.
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