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Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Phils, Astros complete Roy Oswalt deal

A First Look At The Cubs' 2010 25-Man Roster

We're all happy for Andre Dawson, who will be inducted into the Hall of Fame on July 25 (for those of you planning, the Cubs will be home against the Cardinals that day).

Now, it's time to turn our attention to the 2010 Cubs. While the Cubs may still be looking for some backup infield help or another reliever, most likely the 25 men who will show up in Atlanta on April 5 are already on the 40-man roster.

Come with me after the jump to see who I think will be on that roster -- you may disagree; if you do, post your thoughts as well.

Star-divide

Starting eight:

C Geovany Soto 1B Derrek Lee 2B Jeff Baker SS Ryan Theriot 3B Aramis Ramirez LF Alfonso Soriano CF Marlon Byrd RF Kosuke Fukudome

If Soriano is healthy; if Soto can even come close to his 2008 performance; and if Ramirez stays healthy and plays at his usual level for 140 games, this lineup will produce far more runs than the 2009 Cubs did. I like Jeff Baker -- he could wind up being one of Jim Hendry's best acquisitions, and Mike Fontenot as backup can't possibly be as bad as he was last year. He's probably not as good as the 2008 version, either, but somewhere in between would be OK with me.

Bench:

Koyie Hill, Andres Blanco, Mike Fontenot, Sam Fuld...

... and a fifth outfielder to be determined. It could be Reed Johnson, who has yet to sign with anyone. It could be Tyler Colvin -- Colvin did look overmatched in his September callup, but he does have defensive ability and maybe he'll show up well in spring training. It could be Micah Hoffpauir, although he's not really an outfielder, and he hit poorly most of last year. Or it could be someone yet to be invited to spring training, someone on the NRI list, or someone acquired later. Also, I'd like to see Andres Blanco get more playing time. His defense is outstanding, and he showed just enough bat to give him maybe 30-40 starts at SS, thus resting Ryan Theriot -- who wore out again last September.

Starting rotation:

Carlos Zambrano, Ryan Dempster, Randy Wells, Tom Gorzelanny, Carlos Silva

I know a lot of you cringe when you see Silva's name, but unless he completely bombs out in spring training (admittedly, very possible), he'll take Ted Lilly's place until Ted is ready. At this writing no one really knows when Lilly will be ready; hopefully it will be by the end of April. Lou seems to like Sean Marshall better in the bullpen, so the last spot (I've put it fourth) likely goes to Tom Gorzelanny.

Bullpen:

Carlos Marmol, Angel Guzman, John Grabow, Jeff Gray, Sean Marshall, Justin Berg, Esmailin Caridad

Despite the Cubs' statement that they might like another veteran reliever, they could easily go north with these seven -- and I think all of us will be happy with Berg and Caridad in the last two slots. They both have good arms and threw well in callup duty last year. Not signing a veteran reliever would save money, which could be used for a midseason pickup.

It's only January 7 -- but that's the way I see it, barring injury, an unexpected deal or signing, or a spring training phenom beating someone out. Is it a great team? No, of course not. I see the holes as well as all of you can. But it is a team that should be at least as good as last year's, and if healthy, and with a little luck that all winners have to have, will be a strong contender for the division title.

Discuss.

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Yeah...

I don’t see much better than a .500 team here. Sorry. A little bench power might help. Maybe a more solid middle reliever. Another lefty inserted somewhere in that lineup. Someone who could make that starting nine look a little less station-station, and steal a few bases. Another strong starter,….

by Damen Jackson on Jan 7, 2010 8:08 AM CST reply actions  

I agree completely

The bench looks inept, along with the starting rotation. Silva? Wells probably won’t match his production next season, and BigZ as our ace is a scary thing. Add an uncertain bullpen, injury probabilities (Sori, Aram, Soto) and zero power from the left-side will result in the low eighties in wins.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 7, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

The starting rotation looks completely inept?

Really? Lily, Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, and [fill in the 5th starter – like almost every other team in the MLB will be doing] really look that bad to you? We don’t have a dominant #1, but our #2 is solid and our #3 has averaged a low 3 ERA since becoming a starter.

Sure, Silva is a risk to suck, but inept? Really?

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok

That was a bit much for the rotation, but a lot is riding on Lilly making a seemless comeback and BigZ pitching effectively after a bad year. Also, Wells will be hard-pressed to duplicate his results from last season.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 7, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree that it looks like we should expect a decline from our starting pitching

But even with this less than 2008 lineup I expect much better offensive numbers (specifically a lot more luck with RISP) that should at least balance that out.

I’m not one who puts a lot of stock in the Bradley clubhouse chemistry issues derailing our season, but maybe a better clubhouse will lead to a few more wins. If that’s the case, we could be contending with 85-87 wins next year if the Cardinals have less than stellar luck.

Certainly not what I’d hope for the 2010 squad (especially given the payroll) but I’ll take it compared to what the Brewers, Astros, Reds, and Pirates are expecting.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

How

Did Z have a bad year? Yea, he got hurt and only pitched around 170 innings, but his ERA was still 3.77, and his WHIP wasn’t THAT high, 1.38 it would be nicer if it was lower but still. His wins were low because of the lack of run support, he got almost none. His ERA was better than a lot of pitchers, including Beckett, Burnett, and Billingsley.

by HardForharden on Jan 7, 2010 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

He's paid like an ace.

Damnit.

PS – Great screen name.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jan 8, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey man, don't get me wrong.

Last year I attempted to defend his salary:performance as an ace, but not an “elite” one. It is what it is.

"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks

by dtpollitt on Jan 8, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

he's paid

what his agent is able to get from the team.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Fukudome Platoon partner?

Maybe Reed Johnson resigns, but we will see.

I still see the achilles heal of this team as the bench. Consider the # of starts you can reasonably get from these guys:
Soriano – 140
Lee – 140-150
Ramirez – 140
Fukudome 120
Byrd – 150

Just with those guys you have nearly a full time player’s worth of starts left unaccounted for. I had advocated for signing DeRosa for that role. While I don’t really care that he signed with SF, I still see the Cubs as DESPERATELY needing another player who can back these guys up.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 7, 2010 8:09 AM CST reply actions  

I tend to agree - Depth could be a real problem...


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 7, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Reed Johnson (or someone similar) would really go a long way towards balancing the OF

Soriano is better against LHP but probably not going to sit much as long as he’s not on the DL. Dome and Byrd are significantly better against RHP. Fuld so far has hit LHP better although his sample sizes are small and I remember his minor league splits not being so straightforward (Baseball Reference seems to have taken this data away). Baker factors into getting some starts at LF and RF but I’d rather he see a lot of starts at 2B and the occasional spot start at 1B/3B. I’d rather the Cubs signed one more OF.

Reed has crushed LHP to the tune of an .841 OPS for his career. Looking at available FAs, there aren’t many left that bring those kinds of splits and the ability to play plus defense at all three outfield positions. He’d also make a good leadoff candidate (.376 OBP career against LHP) when sitting Dome, something I don’t really think we have otherwise.

I realize the injury concerns are there but I honestly don’t see a better fit out there (unless Hendry has a trade in him). He doesn’t seem to have a lot of suitors and I think the Cubs could get him back for something along the lines of 1 year/$2.5m or 2/$4m.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

No matter what

we’re going to lack some pop from our OF and middle-infield and bench for that matter so why not use Baker more in the OF, giving more playing time to Andres Blanco? Letting Baker play the DeRole (get it?)

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by tony412 on Jan 7, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

+1 to DeRole

But I don’t see how getting blanco into the lineup is going to help the team with pop. I don’t care which positions we get the pop from so much as putting the best lineup out there.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 9:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Blanco definitely doesnt give us more pop

but i think it improves our middle-infield defense. What I meant was that whether it’s Blanco or Baker, we’re still lacking pop so why not at least improve our defense since our OF will need a 4th and even a 5th spot starter.

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by tony412 on Jan 7, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Baker is decent at second (not to mention that Fontenot's defense is spectacular)

Getting more starts for Blanco at SS would probably be the best way to help the team, in that he’d be replacing a weaker bat, providing his stellar D at a more important position, and that it might help Theriot finish stronger than he has the past 3 seasons.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 9:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Keep in mind

Even with all that went wrong last year, we still weren’t a .500 team. And an injury to Carpenter might be the difference between an 85 win team finishing second and squeaking in like we did in 2007.

Remember how we were supposed to run away with the central before last season started? A lot can happen, especially when you’re the (on paper) the second best team in the division.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 10:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

True

We don’t have any guys on the roster who could surprise us. We pretty much know what we’re going to get. I guess if you want to reach you could say Fontenot could return to form and Baker and Byrd could be good. But none of those will make it to the all star game.

The success of this team rides on the success of Soto and Soriano and the health of Aramis Ramirez

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

well... if they were going to surprise us and we knew about it it wouldn't be much of a surprise, would it?

I mean, no one thought Mike Fontenot was a candidate to surprise in 2008 and that turned out pretty well.

by cubsforever on Jan 7, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

True

I’m not much for those crazy stats beyond what baseball cards have but I just think given the career paths of the guys we have, nobody is really going to bust out and have a DLee year like he did last year

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

No offense

but how do we have no guys on the roster who could surprise us? Do you mean we don’t have any players that haven’t produced that could this year? Because that would make sense, but saying we pretty much know what we’re going to get, is straight crazy. We don’t know what we are going to get out of Soto and Soriano (which I guess you kind of stated above) and if our pitching staff can produce.

by HardForharden on Jan 7, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions  

We weren't a .500 team last year ?

I must have imagined some extra wins.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 7, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

We didn't make the playoffs

We might as well have lost every game

I hate what we’ve turned into. We used to be satisfied with a winning season

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Red Sox fans are worse.

If Boston doesn’t make the playoffs, the fans consider it a “lost season.”

No joke.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we're at that point

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, sadly,

The playoffs every season seems to be the expectation.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Look last year sucked but not because we didn't make it to the playoffs

It was because the team should have done better and Bradley and Miles and Heilman

We’ll be an average team this year and that’s fine. I’m excited for 2011 and to watch baseball in 2010. If we make the playoffs, great. But I don’t watch to see them get in the playoffs. I watch cause I like baseball. I mean yea you want them to win. But I’d rather have them lose than for them to be gone or something

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

How is this a bad thing?

Being satisfied with 83 wins is the problem!

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not being satisfied

Rather just not exploding like what seems to be happening. Yes, we want more. But we didn’t have a season like the pirates/nationals/royals

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Even more to the point -

Much of the dissatisfaction comes from the fact that certain moves that have been made by the organization appeared to be wrongheaded at the outset. When several of those moves turned out to be as bad as we feared, the fans who are following the front office’s moves are obviously going to get frustrated.

It was a very underwhelming year, and saying that we were better than the Pirates and Royals is going to be cold comfort for Cubs fans drinking $8 beers and watching their $140M team underperform.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I hear you

But let’s remember that things could be much much worse. And they have been

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

gap of 2 and 3 isn't that big

if milwakee gets any starting piching it’ll be a 3 team race, they r still going to hit a ton

"Chuck Norris CAN divide by zero"

by elirock83 on Jan 8, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

We're not certain Baker can play OF consistently

I’m sure he’s better than Hoffpauir or Soriano but still, he’s probably not as good as Byrd. I’d rather have a proven OF veteran

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Baker '10 and DeRosa '08 = more Fontenot

I get that Baker has some very attractive flexibility, much like DeRosa in his 2 years as a Cub. I like Baker a lot and see him as a big part of this club.

The problem I see is that if you put Baker at positions other than 2B for too many games you risk exposing Fontenot once again.

By definition, Baker cannot be the RH platoon side for both Fukudome AND Fontenot.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 7, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent point

Here’s to hoping Fontenot returns to form. And this reason alone may be why we need to go get an Orlando Hudson type

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

For the sake of comparison

Player A plays 2B and has a career OPS of .725 against lefties.
Player B plays all 3 OF positions and has a career OPS of .841 against lefties.

They both have roughly 1000 PA sample sizes.

Assuming Baker can play a capable 2B or RF (the latter of which is a shakier assumption), why on earth would you pay roughly the same amount of money for Orlando Hudson (Player A) to make the majority of his starts (at 2B only) against lefties when you could have Reed Johnson (Player B) for about the same price? Reed also plays 3 positions, including plus defense at CF if we were to need it.

Unless dropping Fontenot off the roster is the goal, I don’t see why you would do this.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

RJ

-12.9 career UZR in CF.

While he can make some high-light type catches, he is not a plus defender in CF.

by DMCub on Jan 7, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point

I must have let the highlight reels get the best of me there.

I’d still prefer the flexibility of a player who can shift around the field (even as a below average CF) to someone who’s locked at 2B (where we have Fontenot, Baker, and even Blanco already potentially splitting time).

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

and wouldn’t mind re-signing RJ.

by DMCub on Jan 7, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's my problem
Assuming Baker can play a capable 2B or RF

I assume he can play them adequately. As a backup.

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

But as the RH half of two platoons

he would have to play RF and 2B at the same time – violating certain laws of time and space.

It’s not good to mess with Dr. Einstein….

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Jr

Would bring a lot of flexibility and experience to the Cubs bench. Plus now he’s WS bona fide.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 8, 2010 12:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Ouch.

Got to agree with the .500 record comment above. When you actually stop and look at the team we’ll field at the start………..just damn.

Why did we bother with Byrd, again? Couldn’t we just take a mulligan on 2010 and dump and expire contracts for en route to a productive pre-2011 offseason?

"Bite my shiny metal ass!" -- Bender Bending Rodriguez

"Life is just one crushing defeat after another until you just wish Flanders was dead."

by The Jade Scorpion on Jan 7, 2010 8:26 AM CST reply actions  

Yep,

And really, thanks to Al for laying out it out so well, so that we all can see. This team is practically screaming for a pitcher, and someone like a Felipe Lopez, who might actually be able to steal a base, and relegate Baker to the bench, which could really use the help. Personally, I tend to lean a bit more toward Luis Castillo, but as Shawn Goldman has explained it a few times here, he could really help this club.

by Damen Jackson on Jan 7, 2010 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Agree....even I can see you're exactly right,

I dont think you need stats or Kool-Aid to see that. IMHO

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby

by cooliogirl47 on Jan 7, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Why does Baker need to be on the bench again?

I do like Lopez but I don’t see why you’d give up 100 points of OPS for a few Luis Castillo SBs. I missed shawn’s arguments in favor of him and thought we all agreed castillo only made sense as a way to minimize the damage from trading bradley.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 9:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

But Lopez stole only six bases last season and eight the season before.

Do you really think he can get back to double-digits?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Hm, OK.

Well, he did have a very good 2009 season otherwise – both offensively and defensivley. So I can see your logic here.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

The Bill James and CHONE projections agree with you.

I’m still not completely sold on Felipe Lopez – I’ve never really liked him. But I can still see Damen’s reasoning.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Not Castillo, please

The Luis Castillo of 2010 is not the one you remember from the Marlins. He doesn’t really steal bases anymore, he no longer has range at 2B, and he still has 0 power (doesn’t even hit doubles, for goodness’ sake). Minaya may be a weak GM, but his reasons for wanting to dump Castillo are sound.

If you REALLY want to covet a 2B, Hudson is much better than Castillo. Still no SB potential, but he is a better 2B and can actually collect extra base hits.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I think the reason people like Castillo

Is because he was favored for the Bradley situation. I too would love Hudson. If we can dump Silva for Castillo though, I’d cash in on that immediately

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed and Hudson would be a solid signing....

…has the intangibles and he is supposedly a great clubhouse guy.

by JB 23 on Jan 7, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

+1 on needing a dependable starter

Not sure we have the $, but in my mind Wells, Gorz and Silva are all huge question marks. We’d be lucky if 2 of the 3 perform well. I fear Wells and Gorz will regress and who knows about Silva

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I think we'll have about the same record as last year

I agree we’ll score more runs in 2010, but the starting rotation scares the heck out of me. Z is a 2-3 starter forced to be a 1. Dempster is well slotted as a #2, but I’m not convinced Wells will come close to duplicating last year. Gorzelanny is a #5 slotted as a 4. Silva is who he is – which isn’t good. If Lilly comes back on time and healthy (both far from sure things), then the 3-5 positions look much better, but we still don’t have that stopper we can count on to pull us out of a losing streak. Z should be that man, but I don’t think he’s emotionally equipped to handle it. This rotation has lot more questions than answers.

by CubbieFaninOhio on Jan 7, 2010 8:30 AM CST reply actions  

I dunno.

There are two ways to build a rotation – top-heavy and balanced. A top-heavy staff might have two 3.00 guys, a 4.00 guy, and two 4.30 guys. A balanced staff might have a 3.30 guy, two 3.50 guys, a 3.80 guy, and a 4.20 guy. They’ll likely both produce a similar composite ERA.

Or think of it this way. The Cubs’ top five starters (Demp, Z, Wells, Lilly, and Gorzo) are all capable of and likely to post ERAs under 4. I don’t think pitching is a major worry.

by cubsforever on Jan 7, 2010 8:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd take that top heavy rotation in the playoffs

But at least as far as getting to the playoffs are concerned, they should be about equal. Keeping our guys healthy is my #1 concern for our starting pitching next year. #2 is that I’m expecting we’ll get less of a year out of Wells than we did in 2009, but hopefully improved production from Z and Dempster (who should be more focused with his daughter’s issues somewhat behind them) will balance things out.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

I think the biggest thing is getting production from the fifth spot until Lilly comes back from injury. After that, I think we have a good rotation with a chance to be great.

by cubsforever on Jan 7, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

you think Gorz

can post a ERA of under 4 being a SP over the course of the season? I just don’t see it.

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he could be at 4

over the season. He was really unlucky last year.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

The guy had success on a horrible Pittsburgh team

Rothschild can turn him around IMO

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

He's been really bad for 2 straight years.

His 2008 wasn’t unlucky – it was really, really awful. 6.66 ERA, 20 HR allowed in 105 innings… 70 walks and 120 hits in those 105 innings, to go with only 67 K.

His 2009 was just “pretty bad,” and checked in at 5.55 for ERA. He’s still getting knocked around and giving up tons of baserunners, even though his BABIP has always been around .300, and even though he posted good K/BB numbers for the Cubs.

 I don’t know why everyone is so high on him, but I guess I’ll be optimistic too, if only b/c it appears there is no better option.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Projections

Bill James 4.11 ERA
CHONE 4.41 ERA

Yes he was bad in 2008. It’s not 2008. He had a 3.91 FIP in 2009.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Gorz was hurt in 2008.

Sometimes I don’t understand why people don’t factor injury into bad performances by pitchers.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

There's a rationale at least in my book

If you’re not injured enough to sit, you should be performing well (not necessarily amazing)

If it’s effecting your performance, rest and get healthy

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Tell that to Dusty Baker.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm pretty happy Dusty is in the NL Central

Keeps the Reds out of it

I was really hoping Ned Yost would come back too

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a theory.

He only threw 105 innings, but that’s b/c he was getting destroyed and was sent to AAA. He never went on the DL until he hurt his finger in September.

And while people hypothesize that he had a stiff shoulder or something, perhaps as the hangover from getting abused at the end of 2007, no one really knows. His K/9 was back up during his CHC stint last year, but it’s not as though he was stopping anyone from scoring.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/gorzelannys-gruesome-season

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 8, 2010 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

you mean like Mark Prior? ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Observations

That is a .500 club or worse. The bench is atrocious. The starting lineup is full of “if’s”. As a rule of thumb, when you have three or more legitimate “if’s”, you don’t have much at all. As such, the “if’s” of Soriano’s health, Soto’s resurgence and the totality of the 2B position makes this club rather mediocre.

I’ve repeated myself on this but I’ll say it again…Carlos Silva will not pitch meaningful innings for this club in 2010. No matter what you read or hear, he was not brought to Chicago to contribute in 2010. Quite frankly, if he is on the mound in any reasonable capacity, people will scream for the returns of both Kevin Gregg and Aaron Heilman. Silva is that bad folks and shouldn’t be counted on for anything other than showing up to collect his paycheck.

The bullpen is weak and questionable as well with a huge “if” of Marmol’s control. The rest of the guys are just guys at this point and cannot be considered a strength of this club until and unless more than one guy has a “Les Lancaster” year out of nowhere. The rotation also offers little depth until Lilly returns.

A very questionable roster with an extremely questionable probability of great success…as we sit here on January 7.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jan 7, 2010 8:49 AM CST reply actions  

and Tony loves his double switches and defensive subs. I can see him grimacing already.

by ol Pete on Jan 7, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Ugh.

Not to pile on, but that is one sorry-looking bench.

by salparadise23 on Jan 7, 2010 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

I was just about to post this.

Rec’d. Unless you’re the Yankees, benches never look too pretty.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jan 7, 2010 9:03 AM CST up reply actions  

That bench...

as composed could easily have four or five guys that won’t (can’t) hit above .250. There’s not pretty, and then there’s ugly.

by Damen Jackson on Jan 7, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Name a team or two who doesn't have that problem?

Some teams have starters who hit .250. Players who hit .280 with power in the major leagues get starting spots and money. There isn’t an unlimited number of these guys and most teams would rather pay the players who will be in the lineup 140 games a year rather than the ones who are 22 times.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 10:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

'10 needs are different than '08 needs

To me though the big difference is how healthy and productive the ’08 regulars were versus what we can expect from ’10.
 
Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano will all need more regular rest than they needed in ’08. Fukudome has proven to be a near-strict platoon player.

Comparing the benches in a vacuum is dangerous. Given the Cubs current core of players, they, in my opinion, need a near regular-player-caliber bench guy to spell their core guys.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 7, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm in favor of this if it can be done in a way that doesnt basically result

in reducing the role of Baker to “first guy off the bench” or dropping altogether a solid bounceback role player candidate like Mike Fontenot.

I’m much more in favor of the Cubs adding someone who can backup all 3 OF spots, or a 1B/LF/RF type player (Matt Stairs? Micah Hoffpauir if he learned how to not be such an easy out?) if one was available at the right price. I don’t get why people see 2B as the only position to strengthen this team with a FA.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Ward had a pretty good season for us in 2007.

So in that regard, in April 2008, the 2008 bench sounded pretty decent.

Blanco was hilariously overpaid, but he was a good backup C. Cedeno and Fontenot were the backup IF guys, and each had at least a little bit of pop and a little bit of potential based upon their recent minor league successes.

Pie, obviously, was the shining gem of the organization – you can’t use “the Cubs couldn’t help themselves, and were only going to mishandle him” as an excuse – that’s a description of a pathology. Pie was a huge asset, even in his 2008 form, in that he was a great defender and baserunner, cost-controlled, and with a giant track record of success in our minor league system.

Seriously, that 2008 bench looked pretty frickin sweet! Going into 2010, the bench isn’t even on the same planet in terms of production or potential.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Your argument is very flawed.

Who cares about what sort of potential those guys had. What we do know are the facts of ‘08. From there you can make a guess as to how that compares to this bench. Basing an argument off of potential is pointless when it’s already happened.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jan 7, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't understand what you're getting at.

The discussion is “Is our bench any worse in January 2010 than it was in January 2008?” , and the answer is, unfortunately, yes. It’s substantially worse, while simultaneously offering less upside for the future.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Well for one thing...

…(if I’m reading your argument correctly) you base a large amount of your premise on the fact that they guys on that bench had a lot of potential. Be that as it may, history shows that wasn’t true and thus shouldn’t be a part of this argument.

Now with that being said, I’m not sure how this bench is “substantially worse” than that bench. Blacno and Cedeno are a wash. There’s no reason Fontenot can’t come close to being the same role player he was back then. Pie is marginally better than Fuld. Hill and Hank White are a wash in my opinion (well not in the mentor sense).

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jan 9, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Call me a kool-aid drinker...

…but I think this team is MUCH better than the ‘09 Cubs. Sorry to be cliche, but the addition by subtraction this offseason was huge. Getting rid of the Aaron’s, Gregg, and Milton make this team better. Assuming Soto, Marmol, Soriano, and Aramis have a better season this team should be right there with STL (the only team that will compete for the division).

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Jan 7, 2010 8:59 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I agree

the battle is for the wild card in my opinion. Cardinals have too much pitching and middle of the lineup power.

I’ve said before the Soto-Soriano-ARam resurgence is the key for these Cubs. Wild card is Baker. I really liked him last year and we may have a guy who can hit close to .300 (probably in .285-.295 range). Our bottom of the lineup was stellar in ’08 and he is a key to getting that back.

I think we’ll battle.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions  

I like Baker too, but...

How much more do you like him today than you liked Fontenot a year ago?

I am just saying that counting too heavily on him might be dangerous.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Jan 7, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Hopefully we don't lose Rami and both can get the starts against matchups that won't expose their weaknesses as much

There’s no doubt to me that we have a stronger IF + IF bench than we did going into last season – Baker and Blanco are better than Miles and Hoffpauir/Scales/Freel/Farney/Fox and Fontenot, who is a strong candidate to bounce back to somewhere closer to 2007/2008 form. If Theriot can find some of his 2008 magic again (and hopefully be rested enough to contribute in September) I think this is actually an area where we could expect improvement from 2009.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Because he put up an OPS of .738 in his rookie year and .909 in 2008?

Because we don’t have Aaron Miles as his 2B partner, so we can reduce his role to that which he was good at before?

Because odds are Rami doesn’t go down again for 50 games?

Because even with last season’s numbers factored in, he still has a .761 OPS (to go along with a strong defensive track record)?

I’m not saying I’m expecting a repeat of 2008 next year. But I don’t think a .770 OPS with another strong year of defense is really all that out of the question. For reference, .774 was what Orlando Hudson, a player whose name keeps coming up as a solution to our 2010 woes, put up last year.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Point by point

1) Aaron Miles wasn’t his 2B partner after Baker was acquired, i.e. for half a season.

2) Fontenot didn’t produce AFTER Ramirez returned when he wasn’t asked to learn a new position or hit lefties.

3) No argument on his defense, but his 2009 OPS was .677.

4) With such a small sample size, we have as much reason to think Fontenot will repeat 2009 as he will find a balance between 2008 and 2009.

5) Hudson’s .770 OPS was around his career average, meaning he’s a safer bet than Fontenot.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Hudson is the safer bet.

Fontenot is the better bet in this sense – we need someone on this roster to break out and Fontenot and Baker are both those kinds of lottery tickets. They both have more downside than Hudson, but more upside, too. And since we have them under longer team control, if you don’t buy this team as a contender, giving them the chance makes sense long-term.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I buy this team as a contender

I also think the Cubs have a few million left to spend in 2010. They’re set at most positions, spending on middle relievers is ill advised and I’m actually optimistic about the rotation.

There are few good SS options out there. Why not spend what little money we have left on a lefty second baseman, who would drop Fontenot and Baker down on the depth chart, also improving the bench?

I’m not advocating a 5-year deal for Hudson or Lopez. But a 1-year deal to try to win now makes a TON of sense.

And, frankly, I think Fontenot was given his chance last year.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I can see this argument.

And I won’t be upset if the Cubs go that route.

I’d rather spend on Sheets.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

my wish list ...

1) Improve at second
2) Sign a right-handed outfielder who can platoon with Kosuke
3) Sign another starter

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I can buy that list

but I’d drop your 1) to 3). I think that going after a middle IF may be better done during the season. After some teams learn they are not contenders (Baltimore?), there may be better players available than now.

And if the Cubs aren’t contenders, waiting saves the cost of signing a FA only to lose and pay him.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

+1

Between spending on Reed or Sheets or Valverde/another RP, I’d rather do any of the latter than the former.

I’m not saying Fontenot is a great strength of ours, and there’s definitely some risk that he’ll be more like the 2009 guy than 2008, but I think our money would be best spent elsewhere. Namely, at positions where the player being replaced (Berg/Caridad or Fuld/the empty roster spot platooning with Dome right now) is an even worse bet to make an impact in 2009 than Fontenot.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

If it was just Fontenot

or just Baker, I’d be more uncomfortable than having both. But we have both. So, I’m comfortable.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

finding someone to platoon with Kosuke

is an important consideration. But, if we got Hudson or Lopez, Baker could platoon with Kosuke.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I think Baker could have an ok year. Much more concerned with starting pitching and would like any extra money to be used on signing Sheets or someone else like Garland as I believe was previously predicted.

by JJDiesel21 on Jan 7, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

sorry, that wasn't very clear

I should have said there really weren’t any good SS options.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

What if we brought back Nomar?

Not as a fulltime SS, I mean, but to play the DeRole.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

He can play 1st and 3rd, can he fill in

at the corners or 2nd?

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

He played decent SS by small sample UZR in 2008.

I’m wondering if anyone’s seen him recently – could he play credible middle infield in short bursts?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no opinion, but would

break the question into two. Can he still play SS/2b? and Can he play SS/2B for any period of time?

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Suddenly this became a flashback to LAST off-season.

Is Nomar even playing in 2010? It seems like he can’t stay healthy anymore.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

It was just an idea

that popped into my head today and not before today.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd again

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

really good points ...

Even if Marmol, Soto, Soriano and Aramis replicate 2009 — and I think we can expect more from at least one of them — we don’t have Aaron Miles, Heilman or Gregg. And we’re also better defensively.

Without looking at the stats, I think the Cubs were lucky to get 83 wins last year, considering everything that happened during the course of the season. This roster looks like an 83-win club out of the box.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I couldnt Agree more

I look in this forum and all I see are cubs fans with no optimism. The cubbies will win 90 games next year. Are a better team from 08(since when was 83 wins a bad season) and the will be competitive in the playoffs. If not I’ll drink my beer and be honored to get to watch my favorite team play at the hallowed grounds of Wrigley Field. I mean for fucks sake some people are well I think they are a 500 team… get the fuck out of here. Lou will have this team competitive like he has every year since he has been here.

by southsidecubbiefan on Jan 10, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

if healthy..... which makes want to

insert the word “potentially” before “solidify”

Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue

by tony412 on Jan 7, 2010 9:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I would've rather...

Kept Harden.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jan 7, 2010 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why you give him an incentive deal

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed

Completely. You can’t even compare the potential Sheets would have with an alternative like Silva, Gorzelanny or anyone else in the system.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jan 7, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

what would make me happy is....

Baker added to the bench and some one else at 2B…dont ask me who cuz I dont know. I thought I liked Lopez but I’ve read he’s not a great clubhouse guy so….“I got nothing”

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby

by cooliogirl47 on Jan 7, 2010 9:14 AM CST reply actions  

Hudson

Great clubhouse guy, hits lefty — and he instantly makes us deeper.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Does he play a position besides 2b?

That’s my only concern. I might trade or let go of Fontenot then if you sign him

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

He's never played another position at the major league level, no.

But why does that concern you? Baker and Blanco could both spell him at 2B while also covering third base and shortstop, respectively.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

What concerns me is that we don't have anyone to back up first

I think baker as the utility guy would be great. You still need a Nady/Hoffpauir to play 1B/OF

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Baker has played some first base.

Of course, inevitably, the Cubs would need a 3B backup and a 1B backup at the same time.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Why should it be any different?

In a pinch Fontenot could play 3B

My Chad Tracy campaign begins again….

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Great guy; yes, hits lefty; yes and makes us deeper; yes...sounds perfect....

…so what’s wrong with him or why cant we get him?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby

by cooliogirl47 on Jan 7, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed ....again

Some on here point to him not playing in the playoffs in favor of Ron Belliard and cast him off as some stooge. Hudson can still play and he is a better player than either Baker or Fontenot….and would help the bench as a result.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Jan 7, 2010 3:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Why do we need Fontenot? Couldn't Blanco serve as back up to 2B and SS?

Sign Hudson/Lopez and shift Baker to the bench and trade Fontenot.

by thehat34 on Jan 7, 2010 9:20 AM CST reply actions  

I think that Al may be wrong about the starting 2B

and Fontenot will be in there more than people expect.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I could see the Cubs going with...

…a straight-up platoon at second base, which would free Baker to be a little more of the super-utility guy.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Please no.

I’m not sure the Cubs should be trusting Fontenot in a straight-up platoon at this point.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

It's not like they'll be trusting him.

But why is Baker more trustworthy? They have essentially the same projections. Let them compete for playing time and protect each other from being overexposed.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd agree.

While I liked Baker’s last few months of the season, I’d be skeptical that he can keep that up over a full season. I’d still be looking into an upgrade at 2B if possible, with the intent of letting Baker float from position to position while seeing if Fontenot has any trade value (if not just releasing him in ST).

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

well, I don't agree with the projections

Baker will be better in 2010 than Mike Fontenot. That’s one thing I’m sure of.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I really like Baker

and that’s not something I’m sure about.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Call me crazy, but I still haven't completely given up on Mike Fontenot.

I still see a guy with a lot of good skills who just lost the plot last season – at least partly because of some pretty bad luck at the plate.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I would say Fontenot is the most expendable of the Cubs' bench players at this point.

But who’s to say he won’t produce one of the June 2007 streaks of his?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, I agree.

I wouldn’t be weeping in my Wheaties if Hendry moved LBR in the right deal.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Nor would I.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

crazy

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Why?

He’s not good.

Someday we'll go all the way...

by CubsBullsBears on Jan 7, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see how

Hoffpauir doesn’t make it on the 25 man roster. He may not have been great, but did provide some pop. W/ out him, the bench has zero power. Lopez or Hudson at 2b help the bench significantly, by slotting Baker into a versatile role. Hard to see how there is room on the roster for Blanco and Fontenot if Baker does move to the bench.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jan 7, 2010 9:24 AM CST reply actions  

The bench is missing power

but I prefer power that is able to make contact.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

the breeze

sure is nice on those hot summer days, tho.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

lol

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

but I can't see it

through the blizzard.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

BLIZZARD!!!

(Image taken just after the recent snowstorm which buried us under 3 feet of snow)

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn't take this, it was in the local newspaper.

They had several snowstorm-related photo galleries.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Wow, that's an incredible amount of snow.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 7, 2010 11:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Here are some other pictures from the Burlington Free Press.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, and this snowstorm hit me in more ways than one.

My car was damaged in it on Sunday, and it is being repaired as I post this comment.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

The middle one is very pretty.

Make it black and white and I REALLY like it…

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

The bench is missing a cheap power bat.

Fortunately, we didn’t recently trade one of those away for absolutely nothing.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Daryle Ward couldn't.

Do you think Hoffpauir or Ward could play defense any better than Fox? More to the point, can you imagine either playing 3B in a major league game?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Ward was infinitely better in RF than Hoffpauir

and could play first.

My comment was a Hoffpauir knock, not on Fox who I liked.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Ward has almost never played RF ever.

He never topped 10 games in RF in a season for the Cubs, and has never topped 15 games in a season in RF in his career. And despite almost never having played there, but he still managed a negative UZR in every season in his career, which gets horribly magnified when you start looking at UZR/150’s – like -80’s bad.

Obviously, very small sample sizes. But the lack of PT at the position in his career, compounded by the consistently hellacious UZR figures, indicate that Ward wasn’t “infinitely” better than anyone in RF.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Ward made a few good and one almost

great play in RF as a Cub. Understood small sample size, but we’re comparing him Hoffpauir’s small sample size, so it is what it is.

Ward had 54 career games in RF and made one error, 13 games for the Cubs with no errors. Hoff played 30 in RF over two years with 1 error, but you and I both saw him this past season. The scorer was generous.

Fox has skills this team could use, but he’s gone. Hoffpauir has no skills on defense, Ward was a passable 5th outfielder 1B backup.

Ward was slow as anything and not a great athletic specimen, but took decent routes the the ball. Hoffpauir looked like a just caught fish lying on the beach sand with a WTF look on his face.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

hey

don’t you remember that sportscenter number 1 play hoffpauir made against the braves? hahahaa that was amazing

by HardForharden on Jan 7, 2010 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

the one

where he caught the ball in the stands and picked up the cute ball girl at the same time?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Youtube clip?

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd have to look, and I don't have access

to YouTube at work. Anyone?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Thoughts on Thome?

If the Cubs could carry Ward, couldn’t they carry Thome?

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 8, 2010 12:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Ward could at least passably play OF...

… and was OK at 1B.

Thome can’t play the field at all. He even told the Dodgers that when they got him — that he’d only be able to PH for them.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm aware of all this

the Cubs should not consider this move at all. Regardless, I would expect him to be looking for more money than most teams would be looking to pay a pinch-hitter.

by tripdenten on Jan 8, 2010 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather they consider Russell Branyan...

… who can hit, and also play 1B and 3B.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

How much $$$ do you think we’d need to pay?

Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.

by Ryno Runner on Jan 8, 2010 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Good question.

I wouldn’t overpay for a backup — I heard he was looking for a two year deal. I wouldn’t do that either.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I considered this move briefly a few months back, too.

It would be very cool for Thome to finish his career with the Cubs – the team I believe he grew up rooting for in Peoria. But, as Al points out, he really doesn’t fit.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

What's really fortunate

is that the savings from Miles will pay for someone just as good.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

"Will", or "Could"?

And what was the savings from Miles? $1.5M? Given adequate AB, I expect Fox to outperform the $1.5M fangraphs/WAR level pretty substantially.

You think a Russell Branyan will sign for $1.5M?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Chad Tracy should end up cheaper than 1.5 M

He’s just one example.

And “could”

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

If he's that cheap - by all means, sign him already!

I don’t think he’ll really be that cheap, but if he is, he’d be a great addition.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

And while I'm at it -

CHONE has Fox posting $7.7M worth of value for OAK this season.

So while it’s anyone’s guess as to how the offseason (and season) will turn out, unless you think that Hendry can get that kind of production for $1.7M on the free agent market, then we aren’t going to be able to rely upon the predictive models to bail Hendry out of this latest heap of failure.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

CHONE also thinks Hoffpauir's worth something.

So, if you’re going to go with CHONE, we didn’t need both.

Otherwise, I’d suggest CHONE’s not so helpful with suspected Quad-A players.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd go for your second sentence

Forecasting is hard, especially of the future.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Look, what do you want me to do???

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

YES

CHAD TRACY CAMPAIGN ’10!

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I sense sarcasm here....

If only we hadn’t traded Maddux….

It’s over. Nothing else you can do

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Um we didn't trade Maddux

This is why you are 20 kid. Wait till you get to my age and you will know that stuff.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 7, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

BOO YAH!

Not what I was referring to but thanks ballhawk

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right, my bad

Do you remember what you had for breakfast though?

Just playing

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Turns out,

You were right after all.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

:D

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I suspect that power on the bench is over-rated

Sure, everybody remembers the pinch-hit HR, but how often do those really happen? And when they do, how often is the hitter a regular player who had that day off, but came in to pinch hit?

I’d rather have a pesky hitter who can keep a rally going than a .230 power hitter who will probably strike out.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe most want one of each on the bench, a

guy who can pinch run and possibly steal, and a back up catcher. IMO.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

True...

but, throughout the season, there are plenty of situations where a power bat off the bench impacts games. Let’s not hope the Cubs are relying on Z to be that bat.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Jan 7, 2010 9:31 AM CST reply actions  

The big hole in this lineup is not 2B

where we have two guys with the potential to match anyone else we might acquire. One of those guys will work out.

The real problem is SS where we have a guy who will bat at the top of the order, getting caught stealing every third attempt and grounding into double plays as much as anyone. And if he manages no more than the .331 OBP of 2009’s second half, it’s going to hurt. At least if one of Fontenot or Baker flop, we’ve got another option and a manger willing to play that other option.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 9:39 AM CST reply actions  

Theriot won't ground into to many DP's in the lead-off spot.

We just need to come up with some creative punishment for him each time he gets caught stealing.

Ideas? Make him wear an Ole Miss jersey? Cut Fontenot?

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Make him shave that soul patch or whatever it is?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

The Muskat Lineup

had him #2.

Creative Punishment – trade him to the O’s

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

for Pie?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, please.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I wish.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I'm fairly worried about Theriot's bat.

The flashy home runs aside, he was pretty awful in ‘09. And both Bill James and CHONE are projecting him as below league-average. I don’t see an easy solution to this problem, though.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

We had one

but he plays for the Cardinals now.

Is it April?

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 7, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

I thought this was a baseball blog...

American Idol tryouts are the next room please : D

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

?

Confused

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

My Simon Cowell impression.

You gotta see it, I guess.

Is it April?

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 7, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Ohhhh

Gotcha, very funny

Would have been easier if you had said Dawg or something to that nature

I’ve seen about ten minutes of the show, all in passing or flipping through

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Fail.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Not really.

Have never heard that song before, so…

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

You didn't, I did.

Forgot to use the sarcasm font.

rrrrgh!!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

DeRosa at short?

At this stage in his career?

Last I heard, teams are reluctant to play him at second anymore because he doesn’t have the range. So I don’t think he’s a solution at shortstop for anyone.

by aldimond on Jan 7, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, latest I'm hearing from San Fran...

…is DeRo in left, Uribe at 3b and the Panda at 1B.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Was about to say the same thing.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Jan 7, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, there is a thought.

(And I admit, it’s scary.) Tejada’s market just fell through with St. Louis. If the Cubs were willing to take the defensive hit, Tejada could be signed on a 1-year deal with a mutual option for a 2nd year (thus allowing the Cubs to part ways if they feel like Castro is ready in 2011.)

Slide Theriot to 2B and let Baker play the DeRole. Of course, Fontenot doesn’t get to stick around in this scenario.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

What's scary is that people think theriot at second makes any sebse

What’s scarier is that I think Lou might be one of them. The only way theriot provides value to a club is with his average (or slightly above) defense at the most premium defensive position in the league. At second you can throw that out. His bat would be much weaker than what we could expect from
fontenot (platooned), baker, o-hud, or anyone else in the picture not named blanco.

The only place other than starting SS I’d like to see theriot is a backup for both SS and 2B, or playing for another team who needs a cheaper, light-hitting SS option.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 10:18 AM CST via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Which teams do you think Theriot could be peddled to?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

That ship may have sailed.

But the O’s, Tigers, Mets, and Friars might have interest.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Would you do that if you were the O's?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, Cezar Izturis is currently...

…sitting atop their depth chart at shortstop. And Lou Piniella made it abunduntly clear that Ryan Theriot > Cezar Izturis, so, yes. At the very least, Theriot would appear a better-hitting backup than this Robert Andino character (who I should make clear I know nothing about).

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok, so in this factitious trade proposal

who then plays SS for the Cubs?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Someone not on roster -

and that’s the problem.

That’s why if my fictional dream I trade Z and Riot for Reyes and Niese.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

That'd be a trade worth exploring, IMO.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Who's your ace?

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

As constituted now, I'm not sure the Cubs have an "ace."

Zambrano may be listed first, but would you really start him in a must-win game? I’m not sure you would.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Lily was the closest thing we had to an ace last season anyway

Unless your definition of an ace is a player making $17m who may throw a no hitter one game and give up 8 runs in 1.2 innings the next.

If that’s the case, no, we wouldn’t have an ace anymore.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

That's how I look at it.

Talent-wise, Zambrano has the best stuff, but I’m not sure he’s ever going to realize the vast potential he has. Though if he got to 90% of his potential, he could be special.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Wholeheartedly agree

Major talent and sometime he puts it all together and looks like an ace. Unfortunately, its not often enough and I would at least entertain trade offers to see if we could get better without him.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll have to get back to you on that.

Oh, is that my phone ringing?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Another scary thought (considering the defense and lack of walks . . . and his overall demeanor)

But maybe Miguel Tejada is a stopgap for a year or so till we think Castro is ready.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

So then would you want to sign a stop-gap SS or hand Castro the reins and hope he holds on?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I definitely do not want Castro up until he's ready.

This is the scenario I’m particularly worried about:
Theriot flounders.
Hendry sees it and calls up Castro.
Lou prefers Theriot, still, and it’s Pie-RJ redux.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

That is truly frightening.

The nice is thing is, in all likelihood, the Cubs have a new manager in 2011, who hopefully would handle that potential situation better.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Were Ryno and Castro ever at the same level at any time?

It’d be interesting to see if he could really help his development at the ML level if he knows more about him

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Last year they were both in Double-A

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Intriguing....

I’d love to see Castro and Ryno with a C on their jersey in 2011…

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

But it could happen this year.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Jeez I hope not

Although if it did I guess Trammell would take over, not Ryno

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

IT'S HAPPENISH!

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Hm, that is scary.

I’ve always been very anti-Miggy. But taking another look at Theriot’s offensive numbers has me re-thinking this stance. Then again, if you go purely by WAR over the last couple years, it appears to be a wash:

Miggy WAR ’08 & ’09: 3.2, 2.6

Theriot WAR ’08 & ’09: 3.1, 2.8

I guess Tejada’s defense really is that bad.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

That is frighteningly bad defense then.

And not playing in Houston for 81 games could bring his numbers down some, too.

I’ll admit – I’m not in favor of this by any stretch, but I thought I’d toss the spaghetti against the wall.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Tejada was alway a bit of a butcher at short

and that didn’t improve after he turned 100.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Please justify this statement:
The flashy home runs aside, he was pretty awful in ‘09

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Here's the link to his bref

page

I’d ask this question – what did he do well offensively in 2009? Is there anything he did well?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Pick your poison:

OPS, OPS+: .712, .83

or better yet

wOBA, wRC+: .318, .89

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

NO

I meant the “flash home runs”… JK. Thanks for the info.

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

p.s.

I’d be impressed if I knew what any of that meant.

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, in the case of OPS+ and wRC+...

…just remember that 100 = league average. So the further above 100, the better. The further below, the worse.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder if we could manage to trade Jeff Baker in a package to the Angels

for one of their switch-hitting, speedy SS types. They’d still have Wood able to play SS/3B, but also Baker as a backup 3B with more power than their guys.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

how was Theriot awful in '09?

…he was pretty much in line with his career numbers. I certainly dont expect more from him at this point….do you?

2008 307/387/359
2009 284/343/369
career .288/356/369

by JB 23 on Jan 7, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

And that's why I don't expect we'll ever see 2008 Theriot again.

2009 Theriot is more in line with the career numbers. .280/.330/.365 – and if his defense falls back – he’s a huge black hole – even as he’s still praised by the press.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, I'd like to think...

…he can overachieve his OBP back up to .360 or .370, but I can’t say I’m expecting that right now – which is why I’m worried.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

The team if everyone produces will be a little better

But that is a big if……

The bench is pretty scary and has no pop at all. Hoff is a possibility but he needs to show more. Scales did a decent job off the bench last year and is a free agent, he seems like a decent option. I think Colvin should probably go see AAA pitching. RJ would be nice to have back.

Still would like to see another big bat brought in. Tejada perhaps. He is not a great SS, but Theriot isn’t either. Plus Theirot can play 2B. It will be something to look at on some of these players like Hudson or Tejada if the pricetag continues to fall.

by TJ11 on Jan 7, 2010 9:42 AM CST reply actions  

What about Sheffield

for the bench? With Fuld on the roster, we don’t really need another guy who can play all three OF positions. Sheffield can still rake, platoon with Fukudome in right and provide some power off the bench.

Sign Sheets to an incentive laden deal, move Silva into the David Patton role and let one of the yong guys log some innings at AAA

by Southside Steve on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM CST reply actions  

It's an interesting thought

But if the Cubs jettisoned Milton Bradley because he was a headache, then I can’t see them signing up the original poster boy for clubhouse headaches in the 90’s.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Granted

but that was over ten years ago. I don’t recall off the top of my head any incidents recently. He seemed to accept and adapt to a lesser role last year.

by Southside Steve on Jan 7, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

He complained about playing time last year.

Said he should be starting – nothing really new for him, to be honest.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

And he really doesn't have much left in the tank

Looking at his hitting seasons, the last year for the real Gary Sheffield was 2005. Power number have been way off since then, and his outfield play has been below dismal. He is 41 and can’t juice any more – can’t see anything getting better.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

An OPS of .823 last year

isn’t bad at all. As a bat off the bench and platoon starter, he’d be a good fit outside of the attitude.

by Southside Steve on Jan 7, 2010 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

But Sheffield = attitude

And his OPS came off walks – pitchers feared the rest of the Mets’ woeful lineup less than they feared the remains of Gary Sheffield. His power is pretty much gone (31ABs/HR) and nothing in his game will get better past 40.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Clogging the bases, eh?

Look, I know he’s not a perfect fit, but who out there is, with what the Cubs can afford to pay? At least for now, it seems like guys like Nady, Gomes, Dye are all looking for bigger roles and will cost more than what we have to spend. I love Reed Johnson but he doesn’t provide power off the bench.

by Southside Steve on Jan 7, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Ryan

Church

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe.

Church would be OK, but I’d just as soon bring Reed Johnson back.

Big NO on Sheffield, who is now 41.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 7, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Church plays all OF spots

Higher power numbers

Not opposed to Reed however.

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Church's splits work the wrong way

We need someone who can hit lefties better, to spell Dome and push Fuld back to the 5th OF/defensive replacement/pinch runner role.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Church, but he doesn’t fit our current needs so well.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Fuld can platoon with Dome, or Baker

So when we spell Byrd and Sori, a LH would be nice.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I still think Reed is a good fit

But Church wouldnt upset me. He plays a solid CF in addition to being able to spell Sori. We’d definitely be betting that Fuld continues to produce like last season, though.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

What's a little odd...

…is that I’m not really seeing Ryan Church’s name being brought up much at all this off-season in the general, mainstream baseball conversation.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

That has me concerned

that he’s damaged goods.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

His name has come up in connection

with St. Louis, actually.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it was more the PD writer throwing the name out there, though.

And I read today where Rick Ankiel could be headed to Pittsburgh.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Jan 7, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

That would be a Pittsburgh move

Sign a FA who can’t help you just because he seems relatively cheap. That string of losing seasons does have a cause.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I think that in a different lineup, Sheffield won't "clog the bases"

He isn’t the hitter he used to be – if pitchers start going after him that OBP is likely to fall. The 2009 Mets lineup had so many holes there was no reason to take a chance by pitching to the hitter who once was Gary Sheffield.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 2:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think the bench is anything like set right now

Still a lot of FAs in the market looking for work, and most of them will get lower cost at ST approaches. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an OF/PH and another IF signed before/during ST, and for those signings not to be a major payroll bump.

I don’t see the doom and gloom around the starting line-up. IF Soriano is back in form (definitely a risk factor), you are looking at 3 guys with 30 or more HRs, Byrd and Soto coming in at 15-20 HRs, and Fukudome being a solid hitter against RHP (with TBA against LHP). More speed would be nice, but Granderson was the only real stolen base threat who changed hands in the offseason.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 AM CST reply actions  

To Jim Hendry, RE: 4th/5th outfielder

Keep Fuld. Fine. Scrappy player, plays hard, excellent speed and defense. Deserves a spot. The biggest issue I see about this team’s bench is a large lack of power. Fontenot is the only one who can hit more than five home runs next year. Go out and get a Xavier Nady or a Ryan Church, both of whom have pop. Bring Hoffpauir to camp and see if he can produce there. If he does, bring him to ST and leave Berg in Iowa.

Sincerely, Musicdude10

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:11 AM CST reply actions  

Need a Couple of OF's

That’s got to be one of the worst overall outfields in Baseball. I am hard pressed to identify any other team in baseball that I would not be willing to make an even up swap for their starting three over our starting three.

Fukudome. He’s had a couple of “hot” periods, but for the most part, he’s replacement level, at best as an OF. And at his age he’s more likely to decline than improve. He could really go in the tank this year.

Soriano. I hate Soriano as a player. He’s a terrible defender, he appears to be unwilling/unable to bat at a lineup position to use his skills, and his bat appears to be fading. He, like Fukudome, is likely to go downward and not up.

Byrd. Best player in the outfield. That being said, he doesn’t have any speed and doesn’t really have the power to make up for the lack of speed. He’s kind of like a slow Juan Pierre. I could certainly live with him as a second or third outfielder, but when he’s clearly the number one, the team is in real trouble.

Heck, the number 4 OF on the Orioles right now would instantly be the best OF on the Cubs… and they finished last in their division. (Jones, Markakis, Scott and Reimbold) and their number 5 (Pie) would be a step up over Fuku.

by frustratedfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:30 AM CST reply actions  

Are you talking about Dome's

offense or defense? He was great as starting RF two years ago.

Is it April?

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 7, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Fukudome. He’s had a couple of "hot" periods, but for the most part, he’s replacement level, at best as an OF.

I’m sorry, what?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

Would you trade our OF

for this one?

this one?

this one?

Oh, I’m tired of looking…

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd Certainly

take the Reds Starting three. All are under 26, all have ops in the upper middle 700’s. All are going to be entering their prime in the next few years. As for Fukudome, he’s a decent defensive outfielder, but he’s got an ops+ of 89 and 104 for his two seasons in the majors. That’s below average and just a bit above average. And that’s not the kind of production needed for a highly paid veteran outfielder expected to be the team anchor. And that certainly bodes badly when he is the best hitter on the team from one side of the plate. Nick Markakis has been a four year starter in the big leagues, he’s 26 this season and his worst OPS is better than Fukudome’s best season.

Its great to be positive, but lets face facts. This is a substandard and aging outfield with no depth. The Cubs pitching is pretty good. They are solid at the corner IF positions. The division’s not that strong. They could win the division. But let’s put down the KoolAide and recognize that the outfield is no better than average.

by frustratedfan on Jan 7, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Upper middle 700's is not very good.

Soriano and Byrd should outperform that, and Fukudome could as well.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 7, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Soriano and Byrd

Byrd’s career OPS is in the middle 700’s. He’s trending down the past three years after reaching a career peek. And those “good” years were all in the AL. In the NL he has been far less good. And those good years were in Texas, a park noted for its offense.

Soriano had an ops of 726 last season. He’s aging quickly. Do you really expect a rebound?

The upper middle 700’s for the Reds outfielders are good if considered in context. They are young players not yet in their prime and are trending upward. Certainly not the “first” choice to swap with the Cubs. But that’s the point, even a team as historically bad as the Reds have an OF that is not clearly worse than the Cub OF and could be better.

With the amount being paid to the current Cub OF, the argument shouldn’t be whether the Cub’s of is as good as the of on a bad team, it should be whether it is as good as the OF on a good team. And clearly it is not. Take any of the “good teams” and tell me on which team the Cubs OF wouldn’t be a significant downgrade.

by frustratedfan on Jan 7, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

Byrd may be trending down, but he was still over .800 last year

Let’s not make it sound like he’s been in any sort of steep decline. Rudy J seems to think he’s got plenty left in the tank too.

by madcow256 on Jan 7, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

It's one thing to say

“the outfield is no better than average”
and another to say that it’s the worst in baseball.

This whole kool-aid claim is really banal now – on this board, there’s far more unrealistic negative expectations than unrealistic positive explanations – and it’s not even close.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Outfield

The outfield, at its best, is no better than average. And it has the potential to be really terrible. That’s why I rank it among the worst in Baseball. The Reds OF, for example, could be a little worse if the Cubs OF plays up to its potential and the Reds OF doesn’t improve, but it also could be a lot better if the Cub OF drops off the cliff like it might and the Reds OF shows the expected improvement.

by frustratedfan on Jan 7, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

You can't have it both ways.

If it’s average, it’s not below average, which means it’s not the worst.

The Cubs OF has downside, but it also has upside on the corners. There is certainly not more upside in Cincinatti than in Chicago, and I believe in Jay Bruce.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

DGU

It’s probably one of the worst in terms of how much the Cubs pay for it vs what they’ll get out of it. It definitely won’t be one of the best, simply because of how much Soriano’s money is a sink in that area.

Who really knows what you’ll get from Soriano or Fukudome? I’m not convinced Byrd will hit outside of Texas whether his decline in skills continues or not. It would be great to have another option like Church, if that happens.

I’d shut up about the Cubs outfield if it were Soriano, Byrd, Fukudome, Church, Fuld. Even if it ended up injured and unproductive, I couldn’t complain all that much about the process…

Then I’ll just turn my loathing to the bullpen, much like last year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

The money is a whole separate issue.

With the Cubs’ OF’s downside, we could easily be paying more money per win than anyone. But that’s different.

The question I was answereing was whether I’d take the players in the Cubs’ OF over other OFs.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

An "average" major league outfield isnt necessarily bad.

I’d still like you to explain how Kosuke is “replacement level” when he had a WAR near two in his debut year and over two last season.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

That’s not what he said… he said Fukudome was replacement level AT BEST IN SOME MONTHS. And that’s way more true than not, unfortunately. He’s also not a productive player the way the Cubs jerk him around from the middle of the lineup to the top of the lineup. Fukudome should never, ever bat lower than 3rd. It’s just a misallocation of resources to do anything else.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Um, no.

He didn’t say that. Here’s what he said:

Fukudome. He’s had a couple of "hot" periods, but for the most part, he’s replacement level, at best as an OF. And at his age he’s more likely to decline than improve. He could really go in the tank this year.

Maybe my eyes are going, but I don’t see the words “AT BEST IN SOME MONTHS” anywhere in those three sentences.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Parsing

That’s a pretty disingenuous parsing of my comments. Yes, I didn’t say months. But I didn’t say that he was “overall” replacement level either. I said he was replacement level for the most part with a few “hot” periods. He’s just not that good — particularly when he’s the “big dog” in the outfield.

by frustratedfan on Jan 8, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

That's not parsing, disingenous or otherwise.

That’s verbatim what you wrote. And I don’t even know what “replacement level for the most part” means. Either he is or he isn’t. Every player goes through “hot periods.” Maybe you should just not use that term.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

The closest thing to a silver bullet

Ideally, the Cubs would upgrade at short. But with Castro a year away, and few options available from the FA pool, I think we’re stuck with Theriot for now. Also, I’m actually optimistic about the Cubs’ starting rotation, and I don’t really care to spend too much on middle relievers.

Therefore, I think the Cubs should spend whatever money they have left to bring either Orlando Hudson or Felipe Lopez to Chicago. As I see it, either guy could likely be had with a 1- or 2-year deal. They both can hit left handed, and neither will be that expensive.

Signing one of them drops Fontenot and Baker down on the depth chart. Baker can platoon in right with Kosuke and negates the need to sign another outfielder. Fontenot becomes the lefty pinch hitter off the bench who can back up at second or third — where he excelled in 2008.

Much of this is reasoning based on my lack of faith that Fontenot can turn it around as a starter. I know many here have cited projections that say Fontenot is a good bet, but I just don’t agree. I actually really like Baker, but he’s right handed in a lineup with little balance.

Personally, I’d prefer Hudson to Lopez, because Hudson is considered a better clubhouse guy. But I’d let the money make the final decision.

Here’s how this would affect the team:

Lineup and bench versus righties
RF Kosuke
2B Hudson/Lopez
1B Lee
3B Ramirez
CF Byrd
LF Soriano
C Soto
SS Theriot

Bench: Baker, Fontenot, Fuld, Hill, Blanco

Against lefties:

Hudson/Lopez
Theriot
Lee
Ramirez
Soriano
Byrd
Soto
Baker (RF)

Bench:
Kosuke, Hill, Fontenot, Fuld, Blanco

Thoughts?

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 10:31 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I think if you get Lopez/Hudson

then you trade off Fontenot, hopefully for an OF bat, maybe Brandon Jones?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Fontenot is worth that much

You might have to throw in a Marshall type

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Well I was hoping Jones

was in a similar situation in Atlanta as Fonty’d be in Chicago if we signed someone, so maybe we could swing that.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Didn't think of that...

Does Atlanta have a 2B replacement for Kelly Johnson?

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Gotcha

Prado’s decent. Fontenot might not be a bad backup for them

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there an outfield bat out there ...

that would be as good as Baker? Or, are you thinking a lefty?

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Lefty

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Ah, I see ...

Well, I don’t really think that would be necessary. Fontenot would be a lefty bat off the bench, and Baker would solve the need for another outfielder.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

If you can't trust Fontenot to play 2B

what value would he have on the bench.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

as a pinch hitter

who starts occasionally and who can back up at two positions. Think Daryle Ward.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

That doesn't quite compute.

Daryle Ward’s greatest strength was as a patient, veteran power hitter. Fontenot’s major strength, IMHO, is his defense at second base and a nice, compact swing that can produce surprising power. I can’t quite picture Fontenot as a “big lefty bat off the bench.”

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

that's true

As I’ve said before, I prefer — and usually expect — the simplest solution. Signing Hudson or Lopez and moving Fontenot and Baker down a spot on the depth chart makes a lot of sense.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I prefer playing Font and Bake

but I can see acquiring Lopez/Hudson. It’s just that if you do that, you have to move Fontenot.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I really don't think that's true

Fontenot was on the 2008 roster, and he wasn’t considered the starter at second — or even part of a platoon at second.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

But we didn't have Baker.

We can’t afford to have all of Baker, Blanco, and Fontenot on the bench. And if we drop Blanco, that means Theriot plays every inning at SS.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I mean "afford"

in the sense of the roster spot.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I got that

We’d still have five guys who can play the outfield (Soriano, Byrd, Kosuke, Baker and Fuld), three guys who can play third (Aramis, Baker and Fontenot), two SS (Theriot and Blanco), two catchers (Soto and Hill) and Baker (maybe even Fontenot) to back up D-Lee.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

elgato...I'm rec'd that....

it makes me……umm…..happy…..if we did that I could just turn off my computer and just wait for ST to come.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."--Rogers Hornsby

by cooliogirl47 on Jan 7, 2010 11:19 AM CST up reply actions  

one things I've noticed ...

Bruce Levine has dropped a LOT of hints about Fontenot not being the starting second baseman. I think that’s significant.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

2010 a sober year

2009 was like a bad hangover. We drank too much champagne in 2008 and had fun until the ball dropped then ended up with our heads in the toilet. Then we woke up with the dry heaves and were forced to deal with an obnoxious in-law we didn’t know we had, and we found out we lost two of our dearest friends.

Hopefully, by 2010 we’ve worked the poisons out of our system and will be ready to get back to work.

This alone can put the Cubs over .500 and maybe make them a contender for either the division title, if the Cards falter, or a wild card.

Attitude is sometimes half the battle. The roster, as detailed by Al, will be good enough to contend if the attitude is there to deliver.

fesullivan

by waiting4cubs on Jan 7, 2010 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

With that lineup...

Yikes. There’s a lot of ifs there. My head tells me two things.

1) We’re screwed. The Cards are more balanced than we are. There are far too many ifs with the offensive production and our pitching is weak.
2) There’s a reason we play the games. The 2009 Cubs were hit hard with injuries to their big guns and the 2009 Cardinals capitalized by getting Matt Holliday via trade. They could have the same problems this season that we did last season. I’m not going to sit here and hope for injuries, but the Cards would be in a tough position if they lost Holliday or Pujols for any stretch of the season. That would give the Cubs an opportunity to make moves.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 7, 2010 11:08 AM CST reply actions  

You can't ever count

on the other team to sustain injuries.

Is it April?

by neverAcquiesce on Jan 7, 2010 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Nope

But it sure got the Cardinals a division title last season. It made the Mets a horrible team last year.

And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.

by Ace Venom on Jan 7, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Also...

Carpenter has health issues…And you can almost guarantee Holliday will not put up numbers like he did last year.

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't see the Cardinals as any kind of juggernaut

Compared to the Cards, the Cubs are brimming with depth. The Cards’ starting rotation will be Carpenter, Wainwright and 3x Who’s He? The lineup is Holliday, Pujols, Molina, and 5x Mr. Forgettable. Last year, they gave over 300 PA each to three guys with sub-.700 OPS and BAs below .231 – and they were the TOP of the bench. LaRussa is smart but if any key players get hurt, an IQ higher than Einstein’s won’t be enough.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Trade

I still advocate a trade. Trade Zambrano to the Orioles for one of their young stud OF’s. (no, not Pie, one of their real stud OF) and Brian Roberts. It gives the O’s the front line veteran starter they need to anchor their very young rotation and addresses to needs for the Cubs.

by frustratedfan on Jan 7, 2010 11:13 AM CST reply actions  

Not good at all

Hitting success is predicated on old, injury-prone players. Rotation looks very shaky, with very little upside besides Z and Demp (Lilly’s recovery no guaranteed). Bench looks even worse; Rudy has a lot of work to do. As of right now the bullpen will struggle mightily.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 7, 2010 11:24 AM CST reply actions  

why do you think the bullpen wil struggle?

I see it has a pretty solid group

Dare I give the Cubs my heart again?

by digitalbenjamin on Jan 7, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Not a lot of experience

Marmol’s control is a concern. I guess it could be a tad bit better than last year if the end of the bullpen stays sharp. Another issue could be that they’ll be extremely overworked because of the rotation not going deep into ballgames.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 7, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

one reason ...

having young, fresh arms might help.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

On special at your local butcher?

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Why

won’t the rotation go deep into games? Harden is gone, score. Z and Demp are innings eaters when healthy. Wells (if he can pitch like he did last season) goes 6+ often. I don’t think this will be an issue.

Marmol will bounce back.

by tripdenten on Jan 7, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Hopefully they stay healthy this year

You’re right, BigZ is the key for the entire pitching staff to thrive. 6+ innings per game, and lower his walk rate of 4 per game.

"But it doesn't matter what I do, what I choose. I'm what's wrong. This is fate" - Dexter season 4....I mean Lovie season 6.

by propheteer on Jan 7, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with Z being the key.

A lower walk rate would do wonders for him, it would lower his pitch count automatically, and allow him to go deeper into games.

I think Dempster is equally important. If he pitches like he did in the second half of last season, he will be fine.

It will be interesting to see how Lilly bounces back from his injury though. When healthy he is good for 6-7 innings per start, not sure if he’ll be able to give us that right away.

by tripdenten on Jan 7, 2010 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup.

Fact of the matter is Dempster has pitched better than Z in the last two years..Z needs to step up and be the leader of this rotation..like the cubs are paying him to be

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

I really like Blanco and Caridad

Just sayin’

Numbers may not lie, but they don’t tell the whole truth (and nothing but the truth), either. -- Doug Glanville

by leothelip on Jan 7, 2010 11:42 AM CST reply actions  

WOW. There is alot of negativity.

Jesus..We all know looking at this roster that its not great..Is it out of the question to think that some of our core players can bounce back and have a successful year?

Look, we were in the playoff race most of last year. One of the main reasons we fell off was because our our Bullpen(mainly Gregg) and our Offense.

Our bullpen dosn’t look great but its instantly better than that POS Gregg closing. I’ll take Marmol anyday over him, because regardless of what we all think, marmol got the job done when he closed.

We have also shed ourselves of Miles and Bradley. Two players who literally contributed nothing to the offense. In addition Soriano will not be leading off anymore which has got to help the offense. Hell maybe Jaramillio can work some magic with some of our players too. All I’am saying is that our offense will be considerably better than last year.

Lets just wait and see how this team does.

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 11:44 AM CST reply actions  

Bradley contributed a lot more than "literally nothing" to the offense

He definitely was a disappointment, but your statement was a big exaggeration. And I’m not a Bradley defender or one who questioned whether he should be traded.

Also, while I’m glad we’re rid of Gregg (and Heilman, for that matter), he actually was good for about two-plus months last year, basically June and July. Marmol, considering his control issues, might not be a huge upgrade.

I’m optimistic about the rotation, and I think spending money on relievers is a crapshoot. But most of the negativity about the 2010 Cubs is deserved.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, and Soriano

didn’t lead off for much of 2009.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

He contributed a lot more than "literall nothing"

Your right, He contributed to the headaches and overall negativity in the team clubhouse. Yah he walked alot, But he never came through in a clutch situation that I can think of…Couldn’t hit from the left side at all. Had zero power. I stand firm on my opinion on his performance.

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

putting MB and Miles in the same camp

… in terms of pure production is just incorrect.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

your right

I just really don’t like MB..so it influences my judgement lol

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't like him much either

But he wasn’t a total loss as a player last year. Aaron Miles on the other hand …

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree with everything.

Especially that tidbit about Gregg. He was historically bad as a closer, as pointed out after the crapshoot at the game in San Diego which I went to which cost him the closer’s job.

I became much more confident after Marmol became the closer.

I was not sold on Gregg from the beginning, and his meltdown against Houston at Wrigley Field in May should have shown a lot of people how bad he could be.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Right

Marmol walks alot of people , but wasnt he perfect last year , record wise, when closing?

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Last year, he was 15/19 in save opportunities.

The fourth blown save, however, occurred on June 27.

Following that, he was 12/12 in save opportunities, starting on August 3.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

When he was the closer, he was perfect

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes.

Once he became designated closer, he did not blow a save opportunity.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that's what BadDecisions was asking about

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Gregg

He sucked last year… for most of it, but imagine this. Where would the Cubs have been without him last year? When he was performing well, Marmol struggled. When Marmol got it back together, Gregg was done. The Cubs didn’t have nearly enough depth last year in the pen in the late innings, and none from the left-side. The Cubs have even less this year unless Jeff Gray performs better than Gregg did early in last year and Marmol doesn’t have a repeat of last year early in the season.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

What if Marmol is named closer at the beginning of the season?

Maybe he’d have done better. It might have been psychological with him — I think he went into spring training thinking the job was his.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree completely

Yeah, Gregg acquired in the offseason and was the closer in Florida but there were those who wanted Marmol to be the closer when Wood was there. Marmol might have been affected by that. I’d like to see what he can do when given the job.

Even if Marmol struggles though, I think Guzman would make an excellent closer

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

A lot of question marks on this team

Especially with the offense and bullpen.

I think offensively, we’ll be improved, but not great. I think Soto will be better, though probably not as good as he was in 2008. Ramirez may not get back to his 2007/2008 seasons, but he’ll be better than Scales and Fontenot were. Soriano, I think, won’t be all that much better than he was in 2009. I don’t think he’ll regress, though. On top of this, Baker should be an improvement over Miles/Fontenot. Even if Lee slips a bit from his renaissance in 2009, it won’t slip that much.

As others have said, 83-86 wins.

by JimAnchower on Jan 7, 2010 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

Nady, and Sheets

that would be my input and where the money should go to fill some holes.

by Grockcubs on Jan 7, 2010 12:01 PM CST reply actions  

Great minds think alike....

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Please sign Russell Branyon...

The guy is ideal for the bench — hits for power, can play the corner infield and outfield spots, and he bats left handed. He made a million and some change last year.

Sign Branyon, get rid of Hoffpauir.

And my God is that rotation ugly. Ugh.

by kanderber on Jan 7, 2010 12:23 PM CST reply actions  

Branyon would.

Last year, once he finally got to play regularly, his OPS against lefties was fine. I’d love to sign him as a super sub for the corner spots (infield and outfield). The dude can rake.

by kanderber on Jan 7, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah,

he had monster season last year, kind of surprising too. And I believe he played in Seattle which is not exactly a hitters park. He would probably hit well in Wrigley (I thought the same thing about Bradley too however). What is he looking for contract-wise? He would be valuable as a reserve in case of injury to Soriano and would definitely be a nice power-bat off the bench.

After last season he’s probably looking for a multi-year deal, I’m not sure if the Cubs would give him that.

by tripdenten on Jan 7, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

SafeCo Field

It plays really well for lefty power hitters. Same as Raul Ibanez.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting,

I did not know that. Thanks.

by tripdenten on Jan 8, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm ...

Interesting idea. I’d still prefer Hudson or Lopez, either one of them would get more playing time on the Cubs than Branyan. But otherwise, I like your idea.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

It won't be pretty until Lilly comes back.

Where do you think Silva would go then? Bullpen?

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

well.

I think he will devlop some really rare type of disease/injury that will cost him the season.He’ll be on the DL most of the year

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Lieber-itis.

As in Jon Lieber from a few years ago.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Is the rotation really that ugly? Really?

Have you looked at what, say, the Brewers and Astros are planning to throw out there?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

No kidding.

Once we know that Jim’s done shopping for pitching, I’ll do a write-up on our pitching, which I see as a strength. Part of it, I think, is that people are severely uderrating Ryan Dempster. We keep thinking of him in terms of a surprise we expect to turn back into that maddening closer we had. But he’s a different pitcher than when he first came to the Cubs.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I also think many fans are panicking over Ted Lilly’s recovery and Carlos Silva’s…um…name.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

His belly

could be Godzilla. You never know.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Not his name...

his baseball abilities. Or lack thereof. And then there’s Gorzelanny in the rotation. Yuck!

by kanderber on Jan 7, 2010 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Da Gorz has some upside.

And if Silva is that bad (and I’d agree that he certainly appears to be), I must believe Lou will not leave him in the rotation for long – if he makes it in the first place.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

I think people are worried about last season's numbers

The guy had to deal with his newborn daughter being in the hospital for the first few months of her life. I can’t imagine how hard that must have been. I think you’ll see him return to 2008 form this year

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

The Brewers and Astros are not our competition.

It’s the Cardinals, and more to the point, the Phillies, Yankees and Red Sox.

The Cubs are high rollers. They can’t point to the poor teams, say that they compare favorably, and feel better about the state of their organization.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Granted, but there really don't appear to be...

…any starting pitchers within reach who would immediately put the Cubs starting staff on the same level as the rotations of those teams you mentioned. Unless maybe Hendry finds a way to entice Ben Sheets and he makes a full recovery.

The point is, I don’t think our starting rotation is all that ugly. It could be better, sure.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

that's why they should have gambled on Harden.

Let’s be honest – this team needs some serious things to break their way if they expect to compete. Why not throw Harden – the ultimate “high reward” type of pitcher – back into the mix? We’re already trying to catch lightning in a bottle – may as well try to shoot the moon!

Getting slightly above league average performance from players who are expected to be league average is a recipe for mediocrity. I say, retain Harden, and go all-in. If it works out, awesome – you’re a contender. If not, who cares?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

in part

because Harden was also “high risk”.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm, are you implying

that High Cost plus High Risk equals Luxury?

That’s crazy talk Mr.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

The Cubs are in a position where they have to take some risks.

This team is going to need some career years from good players to contend in a meaningful fashion. May as well keep the good players who are risky, as opposed to using Samardzjia or Gorzellanny or Silva, and hoping for mediocrity.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Gorzelanny

has a better ceiling than mediocrity.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know about that.

There isn’t a whole lot in his career numbers, or his peripherals, that scream out “this guy should be in a WS contender’s rotation!”.

We’re looking at a 1.50 WHIP, (generally about 1.35 if you leave out his terrible 2008 campaign), about a hit/IP and almost half a walk/IP almost every season — and two straight years with pretty hideous ERA marks. And he’s even had a lucky-ish BABIP all this time!

I don’t know how I could look at Gorzo at 27 and say “that’s a guy with a ceiling as a top starter.” I mean, I liked that he started striking people out last year, but even then, he was getting knocked around a bunch, too.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

This is why BCB can be so frustrating.

You say with Gorzo you’re hoping for mediocrity.
I say he’s got a higher ceiling than mediocrity.
You respond as if I said he could be an Ace.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I certainly am not saying that.

I’m saying that he’s been substantially worse than mediocre for two straight years. I don’t know how we can just say that his ceiling is much higher than “mediocre MLB starting pitcher”, and I’d be happy to get that out of him.

I mean, his last two seasons haven’t been “Carlos Silva bad”…. but they aren’t that much better either. One more hit per 9 innings, and there would be an argument.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

That's actually good.

Assuming he and his agent are aware this is the perception, they aren’t looking for Ace dough come contract time.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe we're working with different definitions.

By “ceiling” I mean to refer to what he could become at best. Starlin Castro has a higher ceiling than Ryan Theriot, despite the fact that Theriot is likely to be a better ML SS in 2010. So, when I talke about a “ceiling” I don’t mean to refer to what’s likely to occur.

Tom Gorzelanny once had a good report from scouts and last year he managed a 9 K/IP.
As a lefty, that gives him a significant ceiling, if not still, hurdles to overcome to reach that ceiling and even to reach being an average starter. But Bill James projects him to be better than average.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

You've got to believe

the Cubs didn’t like the risk they saw in the health reports.

I was fairly upset when Hendry let Prior go, arguing just the same way. Prior hasn’t made it back to a ML field since.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Do you think we can really equate the two situations?

I mean, Prior was let go after multiple seasons of being injured, and having not thrown a pitch in anger in 18 or so months. And no one really wanted him, and he got a small deal from SDG.

Harden got seven times as much money, and he’s coming off of 2 seasons of 25+ starts, one of which (2008) was borderline Cy Young level.

It’s probably a matter of degree, I guess. Prior was substantially more injured, but Harden was substantially more expensive. That said, I would have offered him arbitration. He was a valuable asset and a potentially elite player, and this team needs some career years from potentially elite players.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

similarity does not equate

to equating

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

And the Cardinal's rotation right now is Carpenter, Wainwright, and 3 leaky boats

Pinieros is gone, Lohse is a career 4-5 and Wellemeyer averaged a snappy 4.3 innings per start in 2009. St. Louis is to struggle with pitching, too, especially over the course of a 162 game season. If Carpenter has another lost season, the Brewers and Astros ARE the competition.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you D98

Cubs need to get a starter, this is not the Cubs of the early 90’s, pinching pennies, letting Maddux go to sign Juan Guzman, Willie Wilson and Candy Maldenado.
 Get a arm Jimbo.

by Grockcubs on Jan 7, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, they aren't pinching pennies, that's for sure!

I just have serious issues with how they’ve chosen to spend their resources.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

we signed Jose Guzman

He was not even as good as Juan Guzman.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Juan Guzman

was tight, I believe he pitched for back to back WS teams with Toronto.

by tripdenten on Jan 8, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

My fault

Jose Guzman, the Texas Ranger.

by Grockcubs on Jan 8, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he will.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

if Jim Hendry gets another arm

then he can hold THREE donuts!!! Right? RIGHT?? :P

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Four

One in each hand – one in the mouth.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

five

one in each hand, one in the mouth, and one… well. use your imagination.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh

on his head, I got it ;-)

by DMCub on Jan 8, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Branyan

I’m worried about his back. It didn’t hold up that well to a full season… but he showed what he could do offensively. I think the Mariners would have brought him back in an instant if they thought his back was sound enough to even platoon at first base or DH.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

He could be a decent part-time player, though, right?

Maybe get 100-150 AB as a PH and occasional 1B?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I think he'd get more AB's than that

But I agree, in a limited role, the risk for injury is obviously significantly less

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

In my eyes...

…this club could easily win 70 games or 90 games, depending on a whole bunch of variables.

Areas I am optimistic about:

Soriano and Soto should have better production and I believe Lee should have another solid year as well – should help the offense.

Areas I have serious concern:

Loose shoulders (which is what Ramirez has) are typically injuries keep repeating, unless they are surgically repaired. If Ramirez goes down for any period of time, the pitching staff better be stellar to offset this loss.

Lilly’s recovery also scares me a bit, but more importantly, I think Zambrano will continue to be terribly inconsistent in his physical performance and mental frame of mind.

Overall, I think Byrd will be ok, and I would say the same about several other guys that are returning. If most of these things don’t pan out, you are looking at a club that will be out of it in late August, if they get the stars to align, they have a good chance of making the playoffs.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2010 12:34 PM CST reply actions  

Even if he does...

…playoff chances will still be determined by how the following guys perform:

Soto
Soriano
Zambrano
Lee
Ramirez

Also, I didn’t mention before, but Marmol has to find the strike zone as well.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

They are important...

…but I deem them as being “reliable”, while the others I listed either tanked last year, or have injury risk.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Good to hear from you again, MPH73

Good input.

I share the concern on Ramirez’ shoulders and hope that Hendry finds the right bench depth in the bargain bin – Branyan, Tracy, etc. in place of Hoffpauir.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

DGU/MPH

Do they keep repeating? I have the same condition and have been assured a combination of resistance training and weight training will keep the capsule tight and the shoulder from popping out and causing the more serious strains/tears.

10 months post injury and all’s well.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting info

I’d heard that Rami’s injury might repeat, but I’m no doctor. Anyone else have info on this?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I play a few racquet sports competitively and

caused it being lazy and not slowing a follow through. The training tightened the cuff and also created better resistance so the arm/shoulder could decelerate and keep the joint from over extending.

I was finishing rehab when Ramirez went down. I further winced everytime he windmilled his big follow through missing the ball.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

In the past...

…I have stated that I was in the sports medicine business for many years. I’m not a doc, but I do have an advanced degree in physiology. More importantly, I have been around a ton of sports medicine docs (and still am friends with several) who are experts in this area.

It is very common for “loose shoulders” to keep being an issue if the person is exposed to forces that may cause it to pop back out. Surgery, is usually the last resort, but does have the best chance of tightening up the ligaments to the point where repeating the problem is dramitically reduced. Martin Havlet (with the Hawks) had this same issue his first two years with the Hawks and missed a ton of games. When he got it surgically repaired, he played a full season.

The issue with Ramirez is going to be the natural instinct of diving to his left for ground balls. If he lands wrong one time, he puts himself at great risk. He also has a fairly violent swing, which also puts additional pressure on his lead shoulder.

I’ll be on pins and needles the whole year hoping it doesn’t pop out again.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2010 1:50 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm most concerned with the follow through on his

“power swing.” You could see him grimmace on these when he came back last year.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks

Rec’d

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe it's already repeated.

Didn’t Aramis have the same injury earlier in his career?

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I seem to remember

hearing that too, when he went down this year.

by DMCub on Jan 7, 2010 2:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Found it.

ESPN

Quoted Ramirez (after last year’s injury) as saying he injured his shoulder the same way in 2000.

by DMCub on Jan 7, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks!

That’s what I was thinking of.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a bad sign...

…especially considering the aging process.

You have to hope he has some luck and it stays put.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Jan 7, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

it's not exactly

frequent if there were 8 years between the injury and the reinjury.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

That's my thought too.

It seems to be more of a freak type of occurence, rather than something that has the potential to reoccur consistently.

by DMCub on Jan 8, 2010 7:42 AM CST up reply actions  

The bench is frightening, and the pitching staff is not being utilizied to its best

Rotation should be: Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, Marshall, and Gorzelanny. That would be a fine rotation, and then the last two would have to battle each other when Lilly returns.

The bench is horrible. We have no bat that I would trust to pinch hit, even if we resign Reed Johnson. Hoffpauir should make the team. Hendry has sadly overlooked the ineptness of a backup 3b for this team. Once again, who plays there if Ramirez goes down? (which is guaranteed nearly every year)

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:37 PM CST reply actions  

why didn't he last year?

What made 2008 was our stellar bench: Blanco, Ward, Johnson, Fontenot, Pie; couldn’t have been really any better,

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Because he didn't get here until mid-season (roughly)?

He played 20 games at third base in 2009.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

exactly what I was going to say

Baker was acquired around the time Ramirez returned — and when Fox was getting some starts at third.

Baker is DeRosa Jr. — he can play three infield positions and the outfield corners.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

ok, I'm sold now

that’s really good to hear then

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions  

we still have other problems

But we have a legit backup for Aramis. Plus, Fontenot played some games there in 2009, so he can backup at third, too.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

well I'm hoping Baker produces similarily to DeRosa

I’m just worried about the bench’s depth though; and the pitching staff is not being used to its full potential

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions  

what do you mean about the pitching staff's potential?

FWIW, I wouldn’t be surprised if Baker has a better year than DeRosa.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

well swap Marshall with Silva

it’d be much better, I believe

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, that

Fifth starters, especially in April, really aren’t THAT important. That said, I’m assuming a strong return for Lilly …

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

they don't need a fifth starter until April 20th

when is Lilly projected to return?

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Hypothetically yes

You can’t always guarantee injury comebacks to be on schedule

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 8:59 AM CST up reply actions  

So you'd trust Hoffpauir to pinch hit?

I think we should stay tuned re: the big bat off the bench. Seems like this is something Hendry looks to include every year, and he may be looking into it now. Oh, and as elgato pointed out, Jeff Baker is our 3B backup – IIRC, he came up as a third baseman.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 7, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't want Hoffpauir

He’s just the best we currently have; I hope Hendry signs someone like Branyan

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm okay with that provided we have a guy who can

step in and play an extended SS/2B and provide 85% of Baker’s production. I’m not comfortable with Blanco/Fontenot as those options.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

As noted above, no one has a great bench

The best LaRussa could hope for with the Cards last year was a HBP.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

that's why the Cards aren't going to be great next year

They are following a similar path that we did, ironically with the same player. Freese, Ryan, and Shumaker are all sttarting in the infield. I’d say right now our lineup is more complete than theirs

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why I don't understand all the prophecies of doom for the Cubs

It’s not like they are in the AL East. Now the playoffs, if made, would be much tougher. They would really need a couple of starters to get hot (Maybe one whose last name begins with the same letter as Zorro?).

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Once again, who plays there if Ramirez goes down? (which is guaranteed nearly every year)

Why? His games played would beg to differ.
2003: 159
2004: 145
2005: 123
2006: 157
2007: 132
2008: 149
2009: 82

So he missed a chunk of games in ‘05, ’07, and ’09. Might’ve been on the 15 day in 2004, but that’s not a big deal. Looks like he should be in for a healthy season since this is an even year.

by fsuapollo on Jan 7, 2010 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Benji Molina...

Any reason why he hasn’t signed yet? I think he would be a solid backup if soto flops

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 12:49 PM CST reply actions  

Eh

Koyie is more than adequate

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 7, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait!

What happened to DeRosa, Roberts and Peavy??

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on Jan 7, 2010 12:54 PM CST reply actions  

They got old.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Doesn't sould like a 1st place team

When the pitching is effective a team can easily be an above .500 team. The 09’ Cubs, at least for the initial months of the season, are an example of this. They should do something to bolster the starting pitching. As is, Silva, Gorz or Marshall will have to be a pleasant surprise and they all have to stay off the DL.

Lee is coming off a good season. Assuming he repeats, then Ramirez and Soriano have to play and hit. I’m optimistic about Byrd contributing alot more than Bradley did. Not as optimistic about Soto, but still think he can easily outperform his 09’ stats.

Agree, that SS is the weakest infield position. I’d like some variation to the Theriot / Blanco plan.

They need another OF. Johnson with a prayer that he can stay off the DL seems like one of the better options.

by AboutTheCubs on Jan 7, 2010 1:33 PM CST reply actions  

By CHONE

Baker projects .255/.320/.421
Fontenot projects .260/.329/.397
Lopez projects .273/.344/.381
Hudson projects .274/.346/.403

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:46 PM CST reply actions  

By Bill James

Baker projects .280/.337/.460
Fontenot projects .273/.343/.415
Lopez projects .281/.352/.400
Hudson projects .280/.353/.409

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 1:50 PM CST reply actions  

so ...

Baker is projected to be the best, Lopez is predicted to be the worst, James likes Fontenot and CHONE likes Hudson. This is interesting, but it really doesn’t change my thinking — except that I might lean even MORE toward Hudson compared with Lopez.

With that in mind … Sign Hudson to a cheap 1-year deal, platoon Baker with Kosuke, keep Fontenot as a lefty pinch hitter and backup infielder. Baker can play himself into the second base job if he outperforms Hudson (or the RF job if he outperforms Kosuke). Fontenot, IIRC, was a good PH in 2008.

by elgato on Jan 7, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

When PECOTA comes out

we’ll get to see the 25 and 75 percentile projections, too. I imagine we’ll see a higher upside/downside for the two Cubs and a lot closer to median in the 25/75 projections for Huddy.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Because I think Jeff Baker

and Mike Fontenot could both swing their OPSes anywhere from 650 to 850, while Hudson’s swing is a lot more likely to be from 725-800.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

With all due respect....

I think you and your sabermagician heroes ridiculously overrate what Mike Fontenot and Jeff Baker can do. This massive presumption on BCB that Baker will be a Mark DeRosa clone is dumbfounding.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Strangely enough, I agree with you.

But I do think he can be a decent 2B, with Fontenot as backup.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 7, 2010 5:27 PM CST up reply actions  

To that point

If Jeff Baker and Mark DeRosa were both on the FA market this offseason, would Baker have gotten 2 years and $12M?

I doubt it. Baker is a player who managed a career high of 12 HR at age 27 in Coors Field, and who has yet to post a 100 OPS+ season.

I’m as hopeful as the next guy, but to call it a fait accompli that Jeff Baker is going to replace 2008-era Mark DeRosa seems like a ton of wishful thinking.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Look, it's a strawman standing on the shoulders of another strawman!

Nobody is saying he will definitely be the next Mark DeRosa.

But Baker and Fontenot have both hit – and hit well – in the majors in part-time play. Especially if you’re BLou – assuming BLou is actually rooting for the Cubs long-term – and you don’t think the Cubs can contend this year, then it makes sense to give both Baker and Fontenot a chance to see what they can do.

Are you actually willing to say that Baker couldn’t approximate what Mark DeRosa is today?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Love the visual, get a torch.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 8:26 AM CST up reply actions  

This isn't a strawman argument, and you're paraphrasing me pretty badly.

First, I certainly haven’t made any pronouncements about what someone definitely is going to do, or can’t do. Obviously, anything is possible.

What I am saying is this – people on this board are getting way ahead of themselves in pronouncing Jeff Baker “Mark DeRosa Jr.”, especially in light of Baker’s career stats to date. He has essentially no track record – not even 1 full season as a regular through his age 28 season.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 8, 2010 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not saying I agree with the Baker = DeRosa argument.

But I will point out that at age 28, Mark DeRosa hadn’t had a full season as a major league regular, either — his best OPS+ was 100, and his career “high” in RBI was 23.

Baker’s already had a couple of part-time years better than DeRosa had by age 28.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

The relevant point is "when did the Cubs hand player X the 2B reins?"

Your point stands, obviously.

However, DeRosa had a full season as a productive starter in the bank by the time he took over as the Cubs 2B/super sub.

I’ll remain hopeful that Baker takes this 2B job and absolutely runs with it. I’m just less willing than most around here to declare it a done deal.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 8, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Speaking only for myself...

…I see Jeff Baker as a playing a Mark DeRosa-like role – not necessarily being the second coming of DeRo himself.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

I think that's a worthwhile distinction

Playing the role doesn’t necessarily mean replicating the production, although Baker has that potential, too.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 8, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I was responding to both your post and BLou's

And BLou did say

This massive presumption on BCB that Baker will be a Mark DeRosa clone is dumbfounding.

And you did say
To that point

Here’s another direct quote:

[Baker] has essentially no track record

which is plain wrong. Baker has extensive minor league numbers which tend to be predictive of ML performance. And he has success in the MLs in multiple seasons.

Look, it’s you and BLou who’d rather disbelieve the projections. Make a case for it.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Note about the 12 HR in 2008.

It came in about half a season’s worth of AB.

And BTW, he did post a 106 OPS+ with the Cubs in 2009, which accounted for all but 24 of his plate appearances.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Al, that's exactly my point.

He has no full seasons as a regular, in his entire career, to which we can point and say “this guy is going to replace DeRosa.” He may be successful and do exactly that. He may completely bomb like Fontenot did last year. (Another guy, btw, who had no full seasons to point to.)

And he posted a 95 OPS+ last year. My statement was correct.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 8, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, it was.

Nevertheless, he performed better once he was a Cub, and you’re splitting hairs by including his 24 virtually meaningless PA with Colorado — a time when he was injured.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

If the Cubs can stay healthy...

then they can contend in 2010. The starting pitching may start out slow until Lilly comes back. I sure that this team is at least a wild card contending team.

by Cubbiegoon on Jan 7, 2010 2:25 PM CST reply actions  

could easily win the division

the Cardinals are not as great as ESPN is declaring they are

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 3:27 PM CST up reply actions  

The self-proclaimed "greatest fans in baseball" strike again!

I agree. There is no way that Holliday produces the way he did last year while in St. Louis.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

So i Zito

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

was*

and Jason Schmidt

and Alfonso Soriano

you get the point

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly - and was my point too

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 7, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, his career "away" line is .284/.353/.454 with a HR every 30 ABs

Or about what he produced for Oakland. The home splits are .351/.420/.623 with a HR every 19 ABs. Can you say “Coors Field inflation?”

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I think someone made a post similar to this every day of the 2nd half of 2009

“There is no way that Holliday keeps this up!”
“If you think that the Cardinals can keep this up, I don’t know what to tell you!”

And then the season ended.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 7, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Just in time for Holliday to muff that fly ball to LF in Dodger Stadium.

The ensuing overflow thread at Viva El Birdos had one of the best baseball discussions that I have ever seen.

Note: that thread is NSFW.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

very interesting

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Had you ever seen that thread before?

I found out about it right after it happened. The admins at VEB had closed that thread to comments by the very next day. That doesn’t happen very often.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

no, I usually don't read their site

but I know they are classy; but that was…well….let’s just say they had emotional feelings toward Holliday’s performance

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

And Franklin's, too.

Although the reaction against him was not as severe as the reaction against Holliday.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

This line was the most interesting

" we mortgaged the future to trade for derosa and holliday to bounced out in the nlds in 3
by slickeration"

That seems to be true

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

that makes me laugh

all those Card’s fans with their jean shorts in a bunch

Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living."

by DC Cubbie on Jan 7, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

well

that was fun.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions  

He had a 2 month hot streak. That happens a fair amount in MLB.

He is a good hitter, but probably not that good. Perhaps the StL GM was bidding against himself?

Manny looked like a god the last two months of 2008 – that proved to be transitory and Ramirez had a stronger history that Holliday.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

ofcourse it helped that manny was trying to conceive

Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind

by jesus christos on Jan 7, 2010 10:56 PM CST up reply actions  

REC REC REC REC REC

Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jan 8, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

That's the standard response that Cub fans have to Cardinal prospects every season.

It’s natural to denigrate one’s primary nemesis in its own division, but c’mon.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, where are the flaws in my logic?

Their infield isn’t great with Schumaker, Freese, and Ryan. I couldn’t think of a worse infield in recent Cardinals history. Their backend of the bullpen is very questionable. They only have two solid starting pitchers.

They have an above average outfield with a stellar catcher and 1b. That’s really it for them

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

1. Kyle Lohse is just fine as a back-end starter
2. Brad Penny is outstanding candidate to be transformed by Dave Duncan, especially when you consider the quality of his arm — how many more times does Duncan have to work his magic before people start believing it isn’t a fluke
3. The Cardinal lineup is potentially scary good, especially if they add Tejada
4. Colby Rasmus is an excellent young ballplayer who is going to get better
5. LaRussa sits in the dugout
6. The Big 4 of Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter and Wainwright is deeply impressive

Do the Cards have issues? Sure they do. Absolutely so. But to discount them in patented Cub fan fashion is a mistake.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't discount them

I simply stated that they aren’t going to be as great as everyone predicted. They could very well win the division, but I doubt they will steal it by any means.

1 and 2. You could argue that Dempster is much better than Lohse. Not to mention, they only have 3 viable starters right now. Penny could be a great reclamation project for him, but thats iffy.

3. The Cardinals do have a potentially scary lineup, but you could say the same about the Cubs as well.

4. You could argue that Soto is up and coming as well, but just had a sophmore slump

5. LaRussa is good, but mainly because of Duncan’s efforts.

6. When our big four is healthy and produces – Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and Zambrano – they are forces to be wreckoned with as well.

Your argument above could come true, but they are a lot of “what ifs” (and mine is as well)

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Baker will be 29 this season.

I suppose that it’s never too late for a player to “emerge”, but he doesn’t have the ceiling that a younger guy like Rasmus or even Soto, at 2 years younger, has.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Jan 8, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

No argument, but with him the Cards

always have flowers and perfume and the Cubs have crap.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course.

But he still has a decent ceiling. Baker is not like Hoffpauir. He took so long to get a full season of ML ABs because he was blocked in Colorado at his natural position and injured a number of times. I’m frankly more worried about Baker’s health than his bat.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you ever going to give the Cubs a legitimate chance at winning their division?

It seems like, according to you, everyone except the Cubs has a good chance to make a deep playoff run.

I find it interesting that the “Ifs” with the Cubs are always assumed as if they will happen, while the “ifs” with other teams are ignored.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Of course he won't.

Because bombast always works better for him. Got your attention, didn’t it?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 7, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, it did.

Shouldn’t have taken the bait.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 5:29 PM CST up reply actions  

My point exactly, VCF

Apparently all the negative assertions about the Cubs are lead-pipe cinches, but any negative assertions about the Cardinals simply are out of the question.

The reality, I suspect, will be somewhere in the middle.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree, that makes the most sense.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions  

And the players who are young and untested on the

Cards and Yankees are emerging superstars and anyone similar on the Cubs is fatally flawed.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Schu did okay defensively – not great, but he’s a pretty good hitter and Ryan did really well defensively and pretty good offensively. I hope you’re right though.

by ol Pete on Jan 7, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Spoken like a Cardinals fan.

Which doesn’t surprise me. What he said was not anywhere near as bad as you say.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

That 25 roster sucks

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Jan 7, 2010 3:51 PM CST reply actions  

Why I see a 75 win type ballcllub

- Ridiculously one-dimensional lineup
- Inexcusable lack of left-handed run production
- Garbage bench
- A middling starting rotation where Zambrano is a juvenile, Dempster is a 4th starter paid like an ace, Wells is likely to regress, Lilly is rehabilitating and their are craptacular options for the 5th slot
- A bullpen that could be extremely ugly
- A manager who no longer really wants to be in Chicago and tends to get lazy when he has little faith in the roster handed over to him
- No immediate excitement ready in the minors that could help soon

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:12 PM CST reply actions  

Also...

- A middle infield that is subpar…distinctly so, especially for a $140 million payroll team

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

We tried getting left-handed before last year.

How did that work out? We regressed terribly from the 2008 season.

I can understand why people want left-handed bats, but how a player bats is not the be-all and end-all of how a team does. Talent is.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree completely

Getting left-handed in 2009??? That was a joke. Milton Bradley is a switch-hitter who doesn’t do well nearly as well against right-handed pitching and had a horrible season overall. Beyond that the only lefty presence was Kosuke Fukudome, the So Taguchi clone paid like a prince and a smurf-like minor league type infieldfer in Mike FOntenot. Micah Hoffpauir? Please.

Cubs had a left-handed crisis in 2009 that was actually worse than 2008, where at least they had Jim Edmonds and a Mike Fontenot who played out of his ass.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

But the simple fact is,

The Cubs led the NL in runs scored in 2008. They didn’t need to tinker with that lineup.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Good grief

A. The 2008 Cubs did NOTHING in the playoffs offensively
B. The 2008 Cubs were blessed with excellent and / or career type years out of Soto, Ramirez, Fontenot, Edmonds, Theriot, DeRosa. Soto and Fontenot subsequently turned back into pumpkins and Edmonds and DeRosa were aging players who are now long gone

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know quite how to respond to that

Soto and Fontenot had exceptional years out of the blue.

Edmonds had an exceptional year after a slow start, and combined with Reed Johnson (who also had an exceptional year) to generate 100 RBIs out of centerfield

Ramirez had a big year

DeRosa had an oustanding year

Theriot had a big yeart

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Theriot produced similary last year

Soto and Fontenot did not have career years because their careers are too short to be judged that way.

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Soto's career is too short to determine if 2008 was a career year.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe so,

But I really don’t see him putting up better numbers than 2008.

by tripdenten on Jan 8, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Soto in 2008:

  BA/ OBP/ SLG/OPS/OPS+
.285/.364/.504/.868/ 118

35 doubles, 23 hrs, 86 RBIs.

I’d be fine with that.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

you just said
But I really don’t see him putting up better numbers than 2008.

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2010/1/7/1237717/a-first-look-at-the-cubs-2010-25#28467688

Do you mean that you don’t see him putting up better numbers than 2009?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 10, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

No.

I don’t see him doing BETTER than 2008. If he matched that kind of production, anyone would be happy. It is hard to see him surpassing those numbers ever again.

by tripdenten on Jan 10, 2010 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Good grief

I agree with those two points, but the moves they made after the season were very suspect, at that is probably the nicest thing I could say about that.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

But see, that's just the point...

Yes, Jim Hendry had a trainwreck of an offseason last year. But even absent his moves holdovers Soto and Fontenot turned back into pumpkins (Soto was largely a non-prospect leading up to 2007 and the steroid innuendo is worthy of consideration I don’t care what anybody has to say). The solid in 2008 Edmonds and DeRosa were gone too. And Reed Johnson turned back into what he really is, and that is a somewhat interesting spare outfielder.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

and hold our breath til we turn blue.

Cubbie blue of course…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 7, 2010 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

...

Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jan 8, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

LOL!!!

OK I don't know shit about basketball.

by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST

by sue369 on Jan 9, 2010 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Well....

I could argue that Cardinals lack proven left handed run production, have a garbage bench, have a suspect rotation after Carpenter/Wainwright, a shaky back end of the bullpen, and certainly no players in their system ready to help out the big club…

"All I want is food and creative love" - Rusted Root

by TheRiot Police on Jan 7, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions  

That is how they look to me

They’ll play well, but they sure aren’t the Phils or the Yankees. And Carpenter has had nearly as many health issues as Ben Sheets.

by ClarkFan on Jan 7, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Turn this one green.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Someone not on the 25-man roster,

but I hope will make us better is this Rudy Jaramillo guy……….but I’m probably drinking too much kool-aid.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Jan 7, 2010 4:57 PM CST reply actions  

no i agree

hey may end up being the key signing of the offseason

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Worse case, Jaramillo doesn't have a measurable impact on

most of the players, but odds are good he will click with one or two and shore up a major or minor flaw or two and more than earn his keep.

Somone on the roster will show measured improvement if Jaramillow is a fraction as good as everyone says.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

is a Jaramillow

like a body pillow for baseball?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Blend 1 cup Jarritos, any flavor

with 1 cup marshmallow fluff, add rum, stir. Then apply to slumping hitter as a salve. Repeat as necessary.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 10:09 AM CST up reply actions  

IMO...

I really believe Jeff Baker will be a very good player for our Cubs in ‘10. He was really swinging the bat well the last month of ’09 and I look for BIG things from this guy. As disappointed as we ALL were with a certain RFer last year, I believe Baker will be just the opposite. Maybe not a Sandberg or an Utley, but, he’s gonna open up some eyes…IMO.

by Easy Ed on Jan 7, 2010 5:12 PM CST reply actions  

Ugh

seeing that on paper actually made my already low expectations decrease further. The bench is atrocious and we’re relying on a lot of guys to either rebound or defy the aging process.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 7, 2010 5:31 PM CST reply actions  

That's why I"m expecting you, and others in your mould,

to ignore the Cubs all season. Put your money where your mouths are. Why waste your time following a team that’s going to be atrocious?

The only prediction I"m making is that I think the Cubs will contend. Otherwise, it’s foolish to sit here on Jan. 7 and make a sweeping declaration about what things will be like at the end of September.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Because Im realisitc about the teams prospects

I shouldnt watch? That makes no sense whatsoever, where did I mention that I wouldnt watch and root for the team? I like baseball, i like the Cubs, so why wouldnt I watch?

Im just not so foolish to think this team will make the playoffs, I want them to of course, but I just dont see how they can with the way this team is currently constructed

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 7, 2010 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Amen

It angers Bruce if you don’t drink the kool-aid and are bearish on the Cubs. It drives him right up a wall in fact. His hangup is not my concern. Nor is it yours.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm realistic about it, too

The realism is this: I don’t know what’s going to happen in 2010. Neither do you.

Now, speaking on behalf of almost all of BCB, take that Kool-Aid and give yourself an enema with it.. You could use a good cleansing.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I just don't understand

how you can bother to watch a team religiously that you’ve already written off three months before the first game, that’s all. To me, that makes no sense whatsoever.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Call me a pessimist I guess

I’ll always watch, but this year I wont be as crushed when they finish behind Stl. Its not about predicting anything, its about probability based on prior results; everyone is a year older and the front office hasnt augmented the team enough to offset that and two keys to the 08 team, Soto and Fontenot, have been exposed for what they are, mediocre or just not good at all.

We had our shot in 08 and now everything we’ve done is just to keep the team where it is, they havent improved in the slightest, at best all of Jimbos signings have been a lateral move

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 8, 2010 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

But bren

what looks like a lateral move is precisely what a team like the 2010 Cubs should be doing. We’re not likely to be a 97-win team again, but we’re better than an 83-win team. Where we are between those two outcomes depends on players you can’t move because of their 2009’s, but shouldn’t move because of their 2008’s. Meanwhile our divisional rival is shallow in the rotation and has most of their team’s value keyed into 4 players. In a situation like this, you don’t want to go all in, but you also don’t want to sell off and be unable to take advantage of bouncebacks on your roster or injuries on their roster.

Shoring up your team, improving the defense, and waiting to see what bouncebacks you get is exactly the right strategy. I’d like to see another high upside play or two (Ben Sheets, please) and we may see that.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I could agree with that, but

our rotation is just as shallow. Carpenter is better than Zambrano or Dempster, Wainright might be better than all three of those guys. Lilys health is now in question as well, and can Wells come close to 09? not likely

Pujols is better than Lee, Holliday better than Soriano, Molina better than Soto. Ramirez is about the only clear advantage we have, I cant even name their third baseman.

I think Sotos 08 was a complete fluke, he did, afterall, come out of nowhere after his 07 PCL breakout, he might as well be Bob Hamlin. So I wouldnt use his 08 as a barometer for anything.

Problem with your logic, in my eyes anyway, is that we havent really shored up anything. the bullpen is worse, the rotation is anything but a sure thing.

Despite what I wrote here, I agree with you by and large. I guess my pessimism about the team stops me from completely agreeing with you b/c I dont think its wise or even likely we get repeats of 08 from Soto or 07 from Soriano etc etc

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Jan 8, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Our rotation is not nearly as shallow.

We have 6 guys who could post ERAs at 4. Obviously we hope 3 of them post ERAs well below 4. Wainwright and Carpenter are better than our best two, but after that, who does St. Louis have? That’s what I mean by “shallow.” Penny could be good, but he could just as easily be miserable. Dave Duncan doesn’t fix everybody. So, what happens if only one of Penny or Carpenter is injured for half the season? Then they’re really in trouble.

In other words, I’d take a healthy Cardinal roation in the playoffs over the Cubs rotation everytime. But I’m not convinced that rotation gets to the playoffs without the rest of the NL Central playing poorly.

As for Soto – do you also think his 07 was a fluke? Catchers often have sophomore slumps after getting to the majors adjusting to the wear and tear of everyday catching. Also, we have a manager who doesn’t show much care for players wearing down. So, I’m not counting on Soto, but I’m also not counting him out.

As for how we shored things up – we improved the defense by 30 runs and added a batter who hits RHP as well as any of our RH batters. That was important. As for the ‘pen – I like our young arms. I’d rather leave some spots open for them rather than block them, but I think there’s at least one more arm coming anyway.

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 9, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Byrd will be a real improvement

OF defense was a weak point last year, even when the RF wasn’t throwing the ball into the bleachers with 2 outs. With Fukudome back in right where he is good, the Cubs only need Soriano’s knee to recover to have a reasonably good defensive OF. (Soriano wil not be terrific, but if he can run OK again, he can be a passable LF.)

by ClarkFan on Jan 9, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Andre Dawson said his pinnacle was winning the MVP with the Cubs

on MLB network right now

Wrigley Bound in the Summer of 2010

by Chanman25 on Jan 7, 2010 6:19 PM CST reply actions  

i would like to emphasize a point the cubs experienced last year:

i really do not see them needing a 5th outfielder. last year his name was joey gathright and he never played. the picked up ryan freel (remember him?) for some more infield depth. the cubs really could use another person who could play outfield i agree, but he should be able to back up at first or other infield spots as well.

With the current lineup, if Lee goes down, Baker covers first, fontenot goes to second and wala the cubs only have blanco as a back up + whatever minor leagur they call up.

While hoffpauir had a bad year, if he can rebound i can see him as the fifth outfielder. If not the cubs need to explore other infield/outfield options or find another capable second baseman so Jeff Baker can backup more in the outfield (but of course this idea is probably a bad one because we do not know if he can actually play out there).

by mdcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 6:47 PM CST reply actions  

i totally agree

the chances of finding a similar player are probably slim though…(jake fox)

by mdcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

hoff and fox are the exact same player

Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind

by jesus christos on Jan 7, 2010 8:07 PM CST up reply actions  

My quick thoughts on the bench

a) It’s not horrible until we know what the final piece is. If we get the pinch hitter/power bat that we need, the bench would have all the components to be a decent unit. Again, a bench is important, but if the Cubs don’t win in 2010 … well, put it this way, I don’t the bench will make or break this team. It may be the difference in a couple games, but I just don’t think it’s that dramatic. What we need to add is that professional bench bat, preferably with power.

b) Along those lines, I’d also add that I don’t think the last piece has to be an OF. Fuld’s ability to backup all three spots is helpful, and I think Baker will see some spring work out there to see if he can handle it. Tyler Colvin needs regular AB’s – while his future is likely as a 4th OF that provides a bit of pop (sort of what we need now … but he’s not ready to fill that role). He should be in Iowa, and assuming he’s playing well, be a call-up guy when something happens. Simply put, I think the last guy needs to be the best possible bench bat a couple million can buy.

c) The problem with bench construction, for me, is the fact that we carry 4 middle infielders to a degree. Now, Baker’s versatility helps a lot, but it’s not an ideal bench scenario, IMO, unless Mike Fontenot hits well enough. In all honesty, I’d like a regular 2nd baseman, and one middle infield backup that can handle 2nd and short. To be honest, I’m also not all that enthused by having to carry Andres Blanco. If Lou isn’t going to use him as a late inning defensive replacement … then I don’t see the point of expressly carrying someone to fill a defensive shortstop role.

Ideally, with what we have, I’d chop Fontenot and Blanco off, make Baker the regular 2nd baseman, find a versatile backup MI, a guy that can handle short. We have Barney in AAA that could be called up if we really needed someone. Put said MI along with Fuld/Hill, and add two solid bench bats (I would’ve really liked to add someone like Eric Hinske), preferably a righty and a lefty, and voila … the bench looks much better.

by toonsterwu on Jan 7, 2010 7:04 PM CST reply actions  

i agree in adding to solid bench bats but....

the main question is what money will the cubs have left after the arbitration to 8 players?

by mdcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 7:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Your not a fan of Blanco...

Then why carry Fontenot? Besides the fact that he is left handed. He would need to turn into his 2008 form, for him to be somewhat useful because having someone who is left handed and producing the way he did last year is really not needed.

by BadDecisions on Jan 7, 2010 7:48 PM CST up reply actions  

um

I said ideally, we’d dump both Fontenot and Blanco and get a versatile backup that can play 2nd and short, allowing us to add another bat to the bench.

Btw, it’s not that I’m not a fan of Blanco – it’s that, I don’t see the point of a defensive backup that has no bat if he isn’t going to be utilized at the position where he’d hold most value. You can find glove guys like that to stock in AAA and call-up at a moment’s notice, as we did with Blanco.

by toonsterwu on Jan 7, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

So, just to clarify...

…you’d prefer to dump Blanco and Fontenot and get a 2B/SS who is perhaps a little less talented defensively than Blanco but brings a bigger bat to the plate.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

well...

his point was, if they’re not going to use him as a defensive replacement, there’s not much point to having him on the roster.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field

by jameslcrockett on Jan 8, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, Blanco made it into 53 games last year...

…so it’s not like Lou never used him. But I certainly would’ve liked to see more of him. Anyway, I can see toonster’s logic here – if there is a guy out there who can hit better, I might be willing to take a reasonable downgrade in defense in the 2B/SS backup spot.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Why all this fondness around here for Andres Friggin Blanco?!

I don’t get it. In same vein as I don’t get the default presumption that Jeff Baker is a Mark DeRosa clone.

Andres Blanco is a journeyman middle infielder who has never stuck anywhere. The man’s defense is not that stupdendous nor is his versatility to play multi positions so great as to overcome his fundamental inability to hit a lick.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 9:46 PM CST up reply actions  

where the hell

is he supposed to stick? He’s a prospect. And he’s the best shortstop on the team.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions  

His D is superior to most.

That is the only reason he is still in baseball.

by tripdenten on Jan 8, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I really hope we don't sign any other bullpen arms.

I really like this group. And now we have a couple young prospects/possible future studs as our last guys in the pen instead of a loser like Patton just wasting a spot all year. Of course, when Ted gets back Silva will be wasting a spot all year/

by Uncle Stanley McGoober on Jan 7, 2010 7:23 PM CST reply actions  

oooooohhhhh another idea

is scales in the system…hendry could put him in as the fifth outfielder AND he can cover the infield (sarcasm)

by mdcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 7:53 PM CST reply actions  

I expect Hendry to do the things that the beat writers have hinted about

Namely,
Trading for an experienced, right-handed setup man.
Signing or trading for a power bat for the bench, essentially Fukudome’s platoon partner.
Make a low-base, high-incentive signing of a veteran starter (Bedard? Wang?) who is still unsigned at the start of Spring Training.
Along with the pitchers Al listed, Samardzija will be given a full chance to win a rotation spot.

I don’t think this will be enough for a 90-win season. However, I think a couple of arms could be breakout bullpen contributors: Gray, Cashner, Parker, Jackson, or Samardzija. Plus, I expect the team to have an obvious hole at mid-season: either an injured player or an underperforming platoon at 2B. There is no way to predict who will be available, or what it will cost at that point, but I think Hendry will be willing to deal prospects to save his job, and Ricketts will be willing to take on some salary.

However, I think the season will rise or fall not on one mid-season trade, but on whether Piniella follows last year’s mode of playing guys who are simply not performing, or if he kicks them to the curb before they destroy the team’s chances. There are several candidates for such subterfuge: Silva, Theriot, Soto, Grabow, even Marmol.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Jan 7, 2010 8:51 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

I think this looks about right...

… and that this is what we’ll see come opening day, more or less. I think the team will acquire one more bullpen arm and a bench bat/4th OF (making Fuld the 5th OF). And it’s a crapshoot to figure out who the bullpen arms will be, but that’s largely inconsequential because of the shuttle I expect to run between Iowa and Chicago bringing fresh arms to the team.

by shawndgoldman on Jan 7, 2010 9:32 PM CST reply actions  

Problem with your bullpen theory

A. Other than Zambrano, the Cubs don’t have a real warhorse on that starting staff who eats mass quantiies of innings. Which drives heavy reliance on good middle relief pitching.

B. Rule of thumb in baseball is never to confuse quantity over quality when it comes to bullpen management. I fear you may be right about a constant shuttle between Des Moines and Chicago, and if that is the case then the Cubs are in deep crap with that pen.

C. Cubs are infamous for burning out bullpens by July 1st. It happens for a confluence of reasons, those mentioned above and probably also day baseball. So bullpen quality can never be underestimated in importance for this club.

D. Nobody knows what role Marmol is capable of serving in 2010, and the fallback plan if he struggles is non-existent from my seat.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Ryan Dempster has pitched 200+ innings two years running. Which is more than Zambrano in both years. Do you look ANYTHING up before you type?

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 7, 2010 10:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Of course not.

If he did, he wouldn’t be able to comment.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Nothing you said is a problem with "my theory"

i don’t understand what you’re disagreeing with. I’m just talking about who is going to be on the opening day roster.

by shawndgoldman on Jan 7, 2010 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

You should know better than to try to discuss with him.

He didn’t respond to your comments, he simply repeated his bombast.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

This is pretty much how I feel right now as well.

I could maybe see Hendry taking a flyer on a reclaimation project starter. Sheets would be nice, but I’m not holding my breath. Otherwise, there probably aren’t any big moves coming. I think the 4th OF/bench bat watch should probably be our primary focus.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

You have to be realistic about things...

Truth be told I haven’t been this pessimistic about a Cub team since the later stages of the Don Baylor tenure. It’s not that this team has only an area or two of weakness or concern. Rather this team has ominous storm clouds overhanging nearly every element of the club — starting pitching, bullpen, the lineup, critical players not getting any younger and injuries starting to creep increasingly in the picture, virtually nothing from the left-side of the plate run production wise, defense up the middle and a bad bench situation. And last but not least a manager who doesn’t want to be here anymore and seems to have troubling penchant for disengaging himself when he doesn’t like his roster or the chips are down.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Jan 7, 2010 9:34 PM CST reply actions  

It's not all nonsense.

He occasionally makes valid points. He just enjoys flipping everyone the bird while he makes them.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2010 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

His occasional valid points

are dwarfed by the number of his inane or flat-out-wrong points. All of them drowning in a sea of eternal pessimism that would make even Richard Simmons slit his throat.

And if you don’t join him in that exercise, he’ll accuse you of saying the Cubs are going to the World Series. I’ve yet to see any of the truly more realistic posters here make that claim.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions  

“Is there any way this team doesn’t win 100 games?”

by ol Pete on Jan 8, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Hmm...that's close.

But it really needs to be, as they say, Cubbie blue.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Here you go


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I like it!

OK, the only other thing that would make it a little better is if you could put a Cubs logo somewhere on him. Maybe in the lower right.

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

and make the pants browner...

you know… just in case…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

that's better

couldn’t get my paint program to work the way I wanted.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

...


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Pure random chance?

A little like 10 to the 12th chimpanzees with typewriters?


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:58 AM CST up reply actions  


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Let me make sure I'm crystal clear on this issue, ok?

Heavy Metal fans are buying Heavy Metal records, taking the records home, listening to the records and then blowing their heads off with shotguns?

Where’s the problem!?

That’s an unemployment solution right there, folks! It’s called natural selection. It’s the bottom of the food chain, ok? I say we put more messages on the records: “Kill the band, kill your parents, then yourself, OK!? Make sure you get your whole head in front of the shotgun…”

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 9, 2010 3:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Stevie Ray Vaughn is dead

and we can’t get Jon Bon Jovi on a helicopter?

"Only a mediocre person is always at his best." ~W. Somerset Maugham

by Goodie1969 on Jan 9, 2010 8:58 AM CST up reply actions  

i really don't see the pessimism for this year

i think the cubs will definitely be better this year.
1. Honestly, the outfield should be better than last year. Soriano should be somewhat better if his legs are OK which they should be by now. Additionally, Byrd over Bradley should decrease team tension and add someone who is capable of doing well. Defensively, the outfield should be better with Fukudome in right and Byrd in center and Soriano should be able to cover left field better when his leg is OK.
2. The infield situation could not have possibly have gotten worse. The cubs got rid of aaron miles, woohoo! They lost nothing. Lee should do well, along with ramirez and theriot if he is rested more. As for second base, it is ideally the same as last year, with blanco backing up instead of miles so it should be better actually.
3. Catcher should also be better because soto should be expected to be at least a little better after a sophomore slump. Backup catcher remains the same as last year so the catcher position will probably improve if Soto learns to hit again.
4. Relief pitching. The cubs lost nothing in dropping heilman and gregg. That said, they have nothing to lose with the current players because you could not be possibly worse than those too. Also, the cubs most likely won’t have a player rotting on the bull pen bench (patton) this year. Marmol may have some control issues, although he did look dominant closing last year. I see improvement from him now that he knows he has the job. Grabow and Guzman should also be beneficial to the bullpen. The rest of it will be filled out by other players who were on the cubs the past year from AAA and gray.
5. Starting pitching. This is the only place where the cubs may be at a disadvantage. I expect Zambrano to do better than last year. Also, once lilly is back, he should be expected to be the ace. Ryan Dempster is fine so i don’t understand the hatred and belief that he is horrible. Randy Wells may decrease a little but he still showed talent and I don’t expect him to fall back to much. As for the last spot, spring training will show who is fit to hold it.
6. The bench is ideally the same.

Other points to consider:
A. Rudy Jaramillo is the new hitting coach and could hopefully increase averages and help players hit better
B. If something is wrong, Hendry will probably do something mid season, after all he does want his job.
C. WAIT UNTIL AFTER SPRING TRAINING TO DECIDE THE SEASON IS LOST. THE WORST PART IS THE STARTING PITCHING AND WE SHALL SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. DO NOT START UP THE FUNERAL HEARSE BEFORE THE TEAM HAS DIED!!!!
B.

by mdcubsfan on Jan 7, 2010 10:21 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

If what you say about Lou is true

isn’t he pathetic?

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 7, 2010 10:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I think BLou may be on to something...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 7, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

STORMOGRAPHY!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Stormography!!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Pussigraphy


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Acornography!!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Wineography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

BLouography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Whineography!!!

BLou

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Churnography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Picture fail. Let's try that again.

Churnography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Spewography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Wooography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Why can't this one show up as a red X?

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Exography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Hey, go down below,

There’s another series of comment starting with Miltonography.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Geography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

that's my man

you can’t get much by that #$%@ ballhawk -- LT

by Emelie on Jan 8, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

OMG ... that redefines "Fat cat"

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

It's been so long since we've seen that.

This should be green.

at daver's request, Let's frontload this B**ch!

by N Oakley on Jan 8, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Green it is


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Yellonogrpahy!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorianography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Ballography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Gornography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Swarmography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions  

No-Comment-Ography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Cordography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Coolography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Zornography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

This guy is awesome

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Jan 8, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Piniellaography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Seligography!!!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

But, but, that is loudicrous


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Thornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Dornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Mornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Fernography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Tellography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Bornography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Hornerography!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Hornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Banksography


 
or is it
 


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Dropped third strike throw from the catcher


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Santography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Tornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

McKernography!

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 9, 2010 2:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Does the presence of Number Two require the existence of Number One?


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 9, 2010 2:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Who does Number 2 work for?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 9, 2010 2:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Number Two: I am definitely an optimist. That's why it doesn't matter who Number One is. It doesn't matter which "side" runs the Village.


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 9, 2010 3:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Bournography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Dyography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Morneaugraphy!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Longhornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

BCBography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

VEBography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

VEBography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Waitaminute ... isn't this BCBography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Failography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Kornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Cornography!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 8:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Wornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Lorneography!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 8, 2010 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Sørenography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Zorinography

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Tornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe we should continue this below "Forlornography" or "Warnography"

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Unicornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Siegessäuleography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

WCIS?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Jan 9, 2010 3:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Warrenography!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

It's high time the season finally started...


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 8, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Forlornography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Warnography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Warnergraphy

I so much wanted to use an image from Doc Hollywood (take a wild guess which one), but then that really would be pornography and BLou would be proved right. We can’t have that…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 8, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions  

If that happened, this would turn into a REAL Pronography Thread Redux!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

A REAL Pornography Thread Redux*

It’s late, my spell-checking is not working anymore.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Chordography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Peekography


Well, I never heard it before, but it sounds uncommon nonsense.
- The Mock Turtle, Alice in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll -

@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Jan 9, 2010 2:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Leakography!

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 9, 2010 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, you do have to be realistic about things.

Such as, some of the “if’s” for the Cubs this year will turn into reality. Some will not work out, but some will. I know you say that none of the Cubs’ “if’s” this year will work out, but some will.

Also, not all of the “if’s” on the Cardinals will work out. That’s just sports. I know you, as a Cardinals fan, will be upset to hear this, but it’s the truth.

The Cubs will not be as bad as you say, and the Cardinals will not be as good as you say.

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

C. ADAM LIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Jan 7, 2010 10:22 PM CST reply actions  

WOULDN'T IT BE SWEET TO GET ADAM LIND AS THE BIG BAT OFF THE BENCH?

CAN HE PLAY THE OUTFIELD AT ALL? WHO CARES?! HE’S ADAM LIND! WE SHOULD TRADE HOFFPAUIR TO THE BLUE JAYS FOR HIM AND MAYBE THROW IN THE RIOT FOR FUN. LOL K GTG BYEZ!!!!111ONE

Catch my act on Twitter as @dat_cubfan_dave.

by dat cubfan daver on Jan 8, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Bench and SP

Are obviously the weaknesses. I haven’t been worried about the bench because there are still so many FAs available, there will have to be some inexpensive options that seem better than Hoffpauir. Not really knowing exactly what the Cubs have to spend or what these FAs will be asking for, I really hope the Cubs go after Jerry Hairston, Jr. and/or Xavier Nady. I know Hairston has been here before, but he seems to be a better player later in his career. Plus thanks to the Yankees he now has the added bonus of WS experience. He can play every position and would give the Cubs tremendous flexibility.

I figured Nady would want to go somewhere where he is guaranteed the most playing time, so I never figured him for the Cubs, but he could start against lefties in RF and spell Soriano in LF for 25 games if need be.

My third bench suggestion might be a bit of a stretch, more of a luxury item that a sure-fire 90 win team might consider, (and keep in mind the Cubs had Ward in ‘08 and Patten in ’09 taking up roster space), and I hate saying he could start all the interleague games at DH, but what about Jim Thome? He wanted to sign with the Cubs the last time he was a FA, and which teams in the AL are looking for a DH? Thome would sure give the bench some much needed LH pop. Don’t know if he would be willing to accept a lesser role at this point in his career, but if Al can dream of Pujols in 2112, I figure I can dream of Thome for 2010.

As for SPing, the only sexy things left out there on the FA market IMO is Sheets or Martinez….sign one of them….then if possible (?) deal Gorz and Fontenot (if we’ve signed Hairston) and some sweetener to the Dodgers (3 SPs/might want to trim payroll) for Sherrill.

Bam 90 wins.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 7, 2010 10:42 PM CST reply actions  

I really don't see the SP weakness

No team has five Cy Young candidates in its rotation. I’ll take the Cubs starters over most others.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 7, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Silva is listed as our 5th starter

Granted it could be only until Lilly returns, but I think I’d feel more confident if the 5th starter was listed as Prior. I guess I’m hedging on down years from Lilly (injury) and Wells (sophmore slump). Which means Gorzelanny needs to really step it up, which I think and hope is possible, but not probable. Add into the mix one starter being out all season (like last year?) and I’d like to see another SP arm thrown into the mix.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 7, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

They call them "fifth starters"

for a reason. Nobody is going to have a Prior-like pitcher as their fifth starter.

I wouldn’t be averse to the Cubs adding another arm, but if we’re fretting about the fifth starter, that tells me everything else is pretty good.

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 8, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Prior-like?

That’s an interesting choice of name to use as the example.

by kanderber on Jan 8, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Prior-like?

Just curious, what do you mean by that?

"I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are truly good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Jan 8, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions  

meaning

having a pitcher on the staff that is really good at throwing a curve-towel for a strike

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.

by hansman1982 on Jan 8, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Prior 2010

I’m not talking about prior Prior.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 8, 2010 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Starting pitching was the one thing we were really set in last year.

In fact, how many times were we lamenting a great outing by one of our starters being wasted by a lack of offense or a breakdown in the pen?

I know we lost Harden, but even when we had injuries to starters last year, the group seemed to pull through OK. In fact, with Gregg and Heilman gone and Harden’s 5 inning starts no longer tiring the bullpen out, i might argue we’ll be just as good, if not better than last year in the pitching department.

I just don’t see pitching as the thing to worry about until we know for sure whats going on with Lilly. There are far more serious and immediate needs.

Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.

by AndrewJStone on Jan 8, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

My prediction

91 wins, Z Lilly and Demp all perform like # 2 starters, wells like #4 starter and Silva outperforms Gorz for the #5 start and performs as such. Ramirez and Soriano have career years, Lee does slightly worse than 2009 but well enough where people arent screaming for some AAA player or a trade, Kosuke does well all year but not stellar, Soto performs midway between 2008 & 2009, Baker, Theriot and Byrd all perform to career averages/expected levels.
Cubs goto the NLCS and take it to 7 games, I wont say what happens beyond that to jinx us. I have absolutely no statistical evidence or trends to back this up, I am simply making up everything as I go along…anyone have any more packets of kool-aid, my cup runeth empty.

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.

by hansman1982 on Jan 8, 2010 12:20 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Wow

I’ll attribute this to a Kool-Aid overdose. The optimism is a refershing change, but …

by Not Bruce Froemming on Jan 8, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

The funny thing is

that this scenario is more likely than some of the negative perspectives run out under the absurd pretense of “realism.”

"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez

by DGU on Jan 8, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

well

I’ll take it. :D

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Jan 8, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

interesting ...

but I didn’t see any mention of the bullpen. Frankly, the emergence of young guys like Caridad, Berg, etc. could be important, too.

by elgato on Jan 8, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

to me this is the weakest Cubs team on paper in several years

which, based on how the past few years have gone, probably means they will win the World Series. I’m more concerned about the news that they have hired Hector Villaneuva as the team dietician.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Jan 8, 2010 5:28 PM CST reply actions  

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