Questions: Calero, Fukudome
by nickler on Jan 8, 2010 9:30 PM CST
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Hi, everyone. Once again, thank you in advance for your wisdom.
1. Why aren't the Cubs looking into Kiko Calero? He would seem to fit the closer role the Cubs are looking for, and if they were willing to offer Matt Capps a position, or for that matter, John Grabow, why wouldn't they consider spending similar money on him?
I am frankly surprised to see that there has been absolutely no mention of him in discussions by any team yet. His numbers last year were great, and his career numbers are respectable. Granted, I am not really familiar with him per se, but is there something about him that makes people want to stay away?
Carlos Marmol seems best suited to 8th inning work. I am not sure why the Cubs are not looking into another bullpen candidate.
As for Marmol closing, was it me, or did he seem very wild when in that role?
2. Maybe I am crazy, but... is Fukudome tradeable?
Amongst the teams needing OF help... Giants and Mets, both of whom could also view taking Fukudome as a means of attacting foreign viewers in areas with a large asian contingent. I believe he only has 2 years left on the deal, and they would not have to provide us with talent, just salary relief.
Both teams do not have the talent to trade for a decent OF, Damon is asking for way too much for an aging fielder who wants many years, and there are not that many other FA options available.
This of course would lead us with a gap in RF. However, we do have the talent (i.e., young pitching) to trade for a younger, cost-controlled RF. The Royals are evidently intent on trading DeJesus, and desperately in need of pitching which we have.
I would wonder if the Mets would trade Fukudome for Castillo. Both are bad contracts. The Mets would get an OF they need. We would get salary relief for players who might fit our needs better. Getting Fukudome for $8 mil/year ($14 mil for Fukudome - $6 mil for Castillo) for 2 years might be the best OF deal they can get.
Thanks for your input!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Well....
The Mets are set in the outfield with Bay, Beltran, Francouer and Felix Martinez waiting in the wings.
Calero? I doubt Hendry has money to chase him.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Hendry is supposedly looking for at least one more arm.
Calero could be that arm, depending on what money he’s asking for. In this market it pays to hold your cards close and wait, which is why we aren’t going to hear much until a move is close, I think.
As for Dome, now is probably not the time to trade him. For one thing, we need his offensive game. He’s LH, gets on base – that fits a great role ahead of Lee and Ramirez.
Once you trade him and then trade for someone else, I think you’ll end up losing more than you gain.
"We’re going to come back here next year healthy and do what we’re supposed to do, and we’re going to be all right. That’s not Hendry’s fault. He thought it was the right move. It didn’t work out. But at the same time, he’s the same guy that put back-to-back championship teams together." - Aramis Ramirez
i coujld not agree more about your assessment on Fukudome
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I also
I can deal with the helicopter whiffs if they are matched by patient walks. This is not the Dusty Baker era any more.
"This next song... it's about the White Sox. It's called: F*** Em'." - Eddie Vedder
Those whiffs tend to come against LHP
He really needs a RH hitting platoon, as has often been discussed on BCB.
I'd be interested to see if they could move Fukudome and $$$ to LA for Ethier
The Dodgers get a Japanese player for a media/gate boost and the Cubs get a younger, LH power hitting RF. But even if that deal was possible, I doubt Hendry could get the $ to make it happen.
im quite positive the dodgers would want more fukudome and cash for ethier
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 9, 2010 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
more than
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 9, 2010 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Why do some Cub fans assume
that others teams want to make bad trades with the Cubs?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 10, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
I see these too often, lets trade this crap for thier All Star type pf post, and the poster sometimes is being serious
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Dome's contract
is not remotely comparable to Castillo’s.
The Cubs seem to have settled on Marmol as the closer.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
Castillo....please stop it!
I see zero way in which the Cubs become better with Castillo. Harry’s old call of, “A deep fly ball going back…and the shortstop has it” would be a daily routine. I know it’s a roll of the dice, and that’s there’s holes elsewhere, but I think a managable Sheets contract with a healthy season by the big righty keeps the Cubs in contention.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cheshire Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
Marmol was best suited in the 8th inning?!
His season turned around when he moved to closer. I think our bullpen is pretty much set.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Jan 9, 2010 7:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Right.
The Cubs aren’t looking for a closer. Calero is a decent reliever, but I don’t think the Cubs need to throw more money at 30-something retreads, when they have guys in their own system who can do the job.
Ask this question: If Calero’s so good, why is he still unsigned?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's pretty silly.
Are you saying that Calero isn’t good? Because his numbers strongly disagree with that.
He walks too many guys but other than that, what’s not to like? He strikes a lot of guys out (10.4 K/9 last year), he rarely gives up the long ball (8 in 163 innings since ‘06. Yes, 8.), and his salary demands can’t be high (made 500K last year).
Calero wouldn’t be a good pickup by Hendry; he’d be an ideal one.
You didn't answer the question.
If he’s as good as everyone claims, why is he still unsigned?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I didn't answer the question because...
it’s a ridiculous question. Up until last week you could’ve asked the same thing about Matt Holliday.
Not a comparable argument.
Holliday was one of the premier free agents and obviously, cost a lot of money. That, clearly, takes a while to make a deal, as we saw.
I ask again: if Calero’s so good, and — as you say, likely to be cheap — why is he still unsigned?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have no idea...
Unfortunately I’m not 30 GM’s and I’m not Kiko Calero. So I can’t tell you why someone hasn’t been signed yet.
But your whole premise is absurd. You’re essentially saying that because he hasn’t been signed, he’s not a good option. I guess Johnny Damon, Jose Valverde, Aroldis Chapman, Vlad Guerrero, and Orlando Hudson are all has beens that aren’t good. Otherwise they would’ve signed by now, right? I mean, apparently there’s some mythical deadline by which a certain player (non premier free agents, of course) has to sign, otherwise that’s an indication of his talent.
Kiko Calero is a very good pitcher. Look at his numbers and tell me why you wouldn’t want him.
Um, because he's had one good year in the last four?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Huh?
More like one BAD year in the last four. He’s had one bad year in his entire career. What are you talking about?
He had a bad year in 2007...
… was hurt in 2008, and had one excellent year in 2009.
At a league minimum salary? Maybe. I just think the Cubs already have pitchers in Berg and Caridad who can do this. Middle relief is a crapshoot, as we have found out the last couple of years.
Again, I ask: If he’s so good, why didn’t the Marlins keep him at his low salary? Why aren’t teams lining up to sign him? If he’s such a “good option”, as you put it, why have all 30 teams avoided signing him?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would like the Cubs
to add one more veteran for the bullpen.
As Al has stated, I think the kids can do the job, but I also think another MLB veteran reliever would be a good influence.
As it stands, Grabow is the most experienced guy, by quite a bit (unless Silva ends up in the pen, though he isn’t a reliever by trade).
I wouldn’t sign a veteran just to have him. But if the Cubs could get a sold veteran reliever like Calero for something like $1.5M, I think that would be a worthwhile investment. Even if the on field performance was equitable, I would think the essentially $1M investment (above the cost of a MLB minimum) would be worthwhile.
Florida rarely signs
arbitration eligible players or re-signs their own players when they become free agents. Why are Uggla and Cantu being mentioned as trade candidates? They’re relatively cheap given their production.
Perhaps middle inning guys and set up pitchers are interchangeable, but you can’t deny that outside of one season, he’s been a very solid bullpen arm. If we can get him cheap ($ 1M or so), why not? I’d rather have another solid bullpen arm than rely on too many young guys or we could just cut Silva.
And kanderber is right. Just because a player hasn’t signed as of January 9th doesn’t mean that they’re not good. That’s a silly stance to take.
by Southside Steve on Jan 9, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Never said he wasn't good...
… but is he that good that the Cubs should jump on him?
Maybe the Cubs should save dollars for a midseason acquisition, rather than just throwing it all at people now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, no, you never used the words...
he’s not good, but you certainly implied it.
Like I said, on a cheap contract, I’d welcome him. If we’re talking a Grabow type contract, I’ll pass.
But with our current options being Berg , Caridad, Parisi, Gray, Parker, Samardzija and Stevens and Guzman, I think a veteran arm would be welcomed in the pen. That’s a lot of unproven arms in the pen.
by Southside Steve on Jan 9, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
And...
… the Cubs have veterans Marmol, Guzman, Grabow and Marshall already in the pen.
I just don’t see the need.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Marmol is the closer,
Grabow and Marshall are lefties. I was referring to the righties in the pen, plus Marshall may be needed in the rotation. Guzman a veteran? He’s been around awhile so I guess technically he fits the definition but he’s really only had one full season in the majors.
I agree there are more pressing needs but that doesn’t mean there is no need at all for another arm in the pen. So, once again, cheap contract for Calero, welcome aboard!
by Southside Steve on Jan 9, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Avoid signing him?
That’s quite the reach. Would you stop with the “if he’s so good why hasn’t he been signed” crap? There are plenty of good players out there who haven’t signed yet. That’s just a ridiculous thing to say. Not something I’d expect from someone who’s been following baseball for several decades.
Calero has been in the the majors since 2003. His career ERA is 3.24, his career WHIP is 1.196, his K/9 ratio is 9.6 and his HR/9 is 0.7. Those are stats of a very good relief pitcher. It’s that simple.
Calero has better numbers than Grabow in each of those categories. You were, of course, fine with Grabow’s bloated contract, so why wouldn’t you want Calero, when he is A) likely to receive a lesser contract and B) better at baseball than John Grabow?
What if Calero suddenly has a year like he did in 2007?
I think middle relief is a crapshoot. The Cubs got two decent years out of Bob Howry and then he sucked.
I just don’t see the need.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, the eternal optimist...
is for some reason expecting the worst out of a guy who has been good every single year but one in his 7 year MLB career. I don’t get it.
Well, I dunno.
You may have a point. My point is — I’d think people would be lining up to sign a guy like this, cheap and good. Since they aren’t, I wonder if there’s an issue with him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
There might be.
This article wonders the same thing, and it also does a good job of breaking down how valuable Calero is, compared to Grabow, who I mentioned, and two other guys who have signed this offseason.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2010/1/2/1230467/the-odd-lack-of-interest-in-kiko
Point taken on his value.
Given that the Cubs have basically said they are in the market for another veteran reliever, I have to believe either:
- Calero is an injury risk, or
- Maybe they ARE talking to him and we just haven’t heard about it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
that and his agent drags out negotiations just for a hoot
Eric Hanna and FAN of the BULLS, the two greatest BCBers in the history of mankind
by jesus christos on Jan 9, 2010 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
My guess...
Is that most teams feel they can almost always fill their closer role in house, and cheaper than by going out to get a FA closer. Since many teams this year are directly or indirectly pleading poverty due to the economy, they aren’t going to spend a lot on their bullpens. Hence guys like Calero still being available.
That being said, I’d still love the Cubs to make a pitch for Valverde instead. I know they’ve handed Marmol the closer’s job, but his control issues last season still concern me, largely because I don’t see anyone else in the current bullpen being able to take over thecloser’s role if Carlos has problems. Plus, when Carlos is on, there’s no one better at coming in with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out and getting out of it. Valverde’s lead the league in saves 2 of the last 3 years, and he was good last season. I know he wants a lot of money, but clearly he’s not going to get as much as he wants so he might be available for $4-6 million closer to camps opening. Realistically I know this won’t happen, but I think in the best interests of this team winning games and a pennant Marmol goes back into his set-up role with an unhittable Valverde closing out the game.
i agree
I personally like Marmol better as the “fireman” who can come in the 7th or 8th to get a big out, instead of closing
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
I've been in the "Sign Valverde" camp since the offseason started...
…and it’s been pretty lonely most of the time. I understand we had other holes to fill and moves to make, but while Marmol could be an effective closer, I just felt like our setup options were okay at best. I don’t like “okay” in the bullpen. I like “nasty”, like Dibble/Myers/Charlton or Rivera/Wetteland nasty.
Is anyone on the current staff ready to step up and fill the (good) Marmol setup role? Maybe Guzman, but is anyone confident he can do that? I think at best, Guzman falls into the “cross-your-fingers and wait-n-see” category.
I know the budget’s tight, but Hendry managing to get $6M out of the Bradley deal, plus Byrd’s somewhat reasonable contract, makes me think the Cubs could fit Valverde in if they really wanted to. Yeah, it’d probably put them a few million over, but Hendry should be able to sell Ricketts on that.
Valverde started the offseason asking for over $10M per. Now he’s reportedly lowered his price to $8M per. I’d have absolutely no problem giving him a 3 yr. $24M deal ($7M-8M-9M).
Keep Marmol in the setup role and see how the season goes. Come trade deadline (or next offseason), if the Cubs have a specific need elsewhere, Marmol becomes a very valuable trading chip, assuming someone out of the Berg/Crawdad/Guzman crowd has stepped it up. Or trade Valverde – he’d be attractive as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The Cubs have almost never had good luck with free agent closers.
Randy Myers and Rod Beck notwithstanding, most of the signings have sucked. I’d stick with what we’ve got.
Oh, and it’s “Caridad”, not “Crawdad”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's your reason for not signing someone - previous signings at that position have sucked?
C’mon Al – if you’re comfortable with what we have currently have in the bullpen, that’s fine. I certainly acknowledge we have enough tools/talent in there now to do the job if all the cards fall right – I’m just not confident there won’t be any hiccups throughout the season.
The bullpen is one area where I like to be dominant. I think the ability to consistently turn a 9 inning game into a 7 or even 6 inning game is a great weapon to have and goes a long way towards giving the rest of the team confidence on a day-in day-out basis. On the flipside, I think consistently blowing late-inning leads saps a team’s confidence and spirit.
Signing Valverde gives us a nasty, dominant, lights-out bullpen. And I would hope Hendry doesn’t let the ghosts of Mel Rojas and Dave Smith prevent that from happening.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
You could have said that about Mel Rojas after 1996.
Lights-out closer. 36 saves. 81 IP, 92 K, only 5 HR allowed, 1.03 WHIP.
How’d that work out?
Throwing money at relief pitchers rarely works.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So Mel Rojas = Jose Valverde?
Careful Al, you’re setting yourself up for some serious consistency issues if you take that approach.
I’m fairly certain there’s a historical doomsday case for just about every position and situation in baseball. Do you really want to turn BCB into a “How’d that work out?” snipe session every time a move is considered?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No, obviously, I don't want that.
I’m just thinking the Cubs can do fine with Marmol as closer, rather than throwing $10 million after a “proven” closer who might not turn out to be worth the money.
Let’s expand the reach a little. Name me a free-agent closer signed by ANY team who’s turned out to be worth the money. I’ll spot you Francisco Cordero — he might be the only one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not savvy enough to do exhaustive research but I will dig around a little
And I will point out a key phrase you used – “worth the money”. In addition to liking Valverde’s stuff, I’m also attracted to his falling contract price. I don’t care how good he is, a closer is not worth $12M a year. But I set my bogey at $8M early on, and Valverde has supposedly come down to that. And that’s his asking price – I’d hope a good GM could knock that down even a bit more.
And I totally respect your first paragraph – you think the Cubs can do fine with Marmol as closer. That’s where we differ a bit – I just want to be a little more sure than “think” when it comes to the bullpen.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
HOffman last season
Eckersly to St Louis
Beck by Cubs
Meyers by Cubs
you can pick and choose on either side of the argument Al, and I have to agree with ballhawk on this one.
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Ok, using the espn.com FA tracker...
…I looked at the last few years worth of FA closer signings.
The poster-child for last year would be Trevor Hoffman. One year at $6M was a pretty good deal considering the numbers he put up.
Fuentes (2yrs/$17.5M) led the league in saves but his numbers were less than dominating so “worth the money” is debatable.
Going back two years was as you pointed out, Cordero (4yrs/$46M) – a bit pricey but definitely has had two very good years and no reason to think he’ll slow down.
Then there was some guy named Rivera… ;-) At 3yrs/$45M, that’s really pricey, but tough to argue with one of the best, if not the best, of all-time.
Cubs didn’t do so bad with with Woody, signing him for 1yr/$4.2M.
Yes, it can be a crapshoot, and frankly anything above $10M/yr is fairly risky IMO unless you’ve got money to burn. But sometimes there are no-brainers as well, and IMO Valverde anywhere around $8M is a no-brainer.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think you need to take Wood and Rivera off that list.
… because they were re-signed by their original teams, which is not what you are suggesting with Valverde.
In any case, as you said above, I think the Cubs can do fine with Marmol and save the money for a mindseason acquisition.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I knew you'd pick at that nit... ;-)
but you did ask for FA closers signed by any team. Just because they re-signed with their own teams didn’t make them any less of a free agent. Unless of course, they were in-season extensions and espn got it wrong – always a possibility….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, in any case...
… there is, I think you’d agree, a big difference between going after someone else’s free agent and simply re-signing your own, particularly if your own is named “Mariano Rivera”.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Some seriously faulty logic at work in your post, Al
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 9, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
If the Cubs are unsure about Marmol closing
then you sure as heck don’t sign Calero when Valverde is sitting out there. Setting up or closing the guy is filthy, and if something does happen to Marmol, Valverde is a proven closer, Calero is not.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 9, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'd guess Valverde is asking for more than we're willing to pay.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Collusion!
Must be collusion. Call the union. And my agent. And bring me a decaf latte, stat!
by RiskyBusiness on Jan 10, 2010 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
lets hope
marmol being given the closer job outright will help him settle down. fukudome does a decent job but i think everybody thought we were getting an ichiro type player.
Calero has been mentioned
Marmol was much better as closer than in a setup role last year and the Cubs will not trade Kosuke,
trading Fukudome would be ridiculous
1. We probably can’t replace his obp which is sorely needed
2. The only way any other club takes that contract is if we pay at least half of it …….that ain’t happenin
to add a third reason not to trade him
you would be selling low right now.
FWIWI am against him being traded either way
Just because you talk a lot doesn't mean you're saying anything. dtpollitt 1-7-10
Clearly the Cubs are not looking for a closer, Marmol is their closer, but
if they were, Calero would be a poor choice to close.
As for trading for Castillo … are you making a joke?
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
Fukudome makes 13 million this year. 13.5 next year
No one would take that contract before the season starts. It’s almost as much as Cameron signed for two years with Boston. Plus then the Cubs would then need a lead-off hitter who what, plays RF?
As for Calero, I have heard teams are concerned about his arm, and I have heard him linked to SF. Probably the reason he hasn’t signed with anyone is because all the GMs are trying to drive down everyone’s asking price….as well they should. They have been over-paying for middle relievers for years! I see St. Louis as a nice fit for Calero, some back-up in case Franklin falters, that is if they don’t try to sign Valverde on the cheap.
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 9, 2010 5:18 PM CST reply actions
Well, if Calero was to close for the Cubs that would be his first career turn at closer
at age 35. Career total of 7, count ’em 7, saves so far, far fewer than Marmol had last year. Blew out a rotator cuff and has pitched a total of 33 innings in the big leagues since.
And Castillo is somewhere past “d-u-n.”
Turns out the Cubs are interested in Calero
by WindisBlowingOut! on Jan 20, 2010 8:18 PM CST reply actions
If so,
I doubt they are looking at him to be the closer as nickler suggested.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 21, 2010 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
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