MLB Playoffs, Division Series Day Five: One Down, Three To Go
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2010 8:01 AM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
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PrintAny time you wonder how the Cubs could have been swept out of the playoffs two years in a row, or say, "The Cubs need to build a World Series winner," think about what's happened to the Minnesota Twins.
Over the last ten seasons, the Twins' regular-season record is 888-733 -- that's an average of almost 89 wins a season for an entire decade. They've had only one losing season since 2001, and that wasn't too far below .500 at 79-83 (in 2007). They have qualified for the playoffs six times... and pretty much stunk it out. Since winning their division series against the Athletics in 2002, they have lost six consecutive postseason series and now 12 straight postseason games; their overall postseason record in those same ten seasons is 6-21.
And yet, the Twins are universally praised around baseball for "doing it the right way", teaching their players the same system at all levels of their organization, producing outstanding players from their farm system (Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Denard Span, Jason Kubel, and that's just in the last few years), and having one of the best-regarded managers in the game in Ron Gardenhire. This year, they used a 45-18 run from July 11 to September 20 to blow away their competition in the AL Central.
So what's the problem? Why can't they win playoff games or series? The Twins had leads in each of the first two games of their just-completed series, but really, after the Yankees took the lead in the sixth inning of the first game, the Twins looked like they weren't even there.
Part of the answer, of course, is that the Yankees are really, really good, and they may just have the Twins spooked a little -- having now won nine straight playoff games against them. The other answer is, as I have written many times, is that the playoffs are a crapshoot. What if the Twins hang on to win Game One, where they took a 3-0 lead into the sixth inning, or even come back from the 4-4 tie in the seventh? It's a whole different series psychologically then. But now, the Twins have lost 12 straight playoff games -- one short of the record held by the Red Sox -- and since a lot of the same players have been involved in most of these games, I'd think it does get into their heads.
WHEN the Cubs return to the postseason, the team that gets there will have very few (if any) players left from the 2007-2008 debacles and a different manager. Just win ONE game -- preferably the first -- and I believe that will make a huge difference.
Enjoy the games today. Once again, I'm only going to post one discussion thread, but if it gets slow later and you need an overflow, post it in the FanShot section. And go Bears.
12 noon CDT: Rays at Rangers. Rangers lead series 2-1. Announcers: Don Orsillo, Buck Martinez and Marc Fein. MLB.com Gameday for Rays/Rangers
3:30 pm CDT: Giants at Braves. Series tied 1-1. Announcers: Dick Stockton, Bob Brenly and Tom Verducci. MLB.com Gameday for Braves/Giants
7:00 pm CDT: Phillies at Reds. Phillies lead series 2-0. Announcers: Brian Anderson, Joe Simpson and David Aldridge. MLB.com Gameday for Reds/Phillies
SB Nation game preview for Rays/Rangers
SB Nation game preview for Braves/Giants
SB Nation game preview for Reds/Phillies
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Is baseball still going on?
Sorry, got caught up in the MSU-um excitement Saturday…
1,072 days and counting…
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
1,072 SINCE u-m beat MSU in football or basketball...
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
EE: Make sure you thank Mike Hart for all of us Spartan fans.
He STILL doesn’t know when to shut up.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Yes!
Dangit. I find it infuriating that my paper doesn’t even mention baseball until page 9 of the sports section. The playoffs are going on for crying out loud. What is this other crap?
Look into my eyes!
Akin to when ESPN starts breathlessly reporting on NFL training camp
Just as the MLB trade deadline is approaching or the playoff races are being whittled down to 3 or 4 contenders. Hey, I like football, too, just not as much as I do a sport where teams are actually playing games that actually matter.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Exactly.
For me, football doesn’t really start until the World Series is over.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Oct 10, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My sentiments exactly...
Except I took up Vienna Beef’s generous offer of tickets in Denver to see the Blackhawks opener, and we all know how that turned out. Maybe Jim Hendry has secretly taken the reins over in the front office of the Blackhawks.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You forget their orgasm
When the Giants won vs. the Patriots. That helmet catch would have gone unremarked if it weren’t the Giants’.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
How about HOCKEY
Haven’t seen anything for it on ESPN. Hawks raised the banner last night, didn’t get it (I’m in Indiana, no CSN Chicago) and I haven’t been able to find any video of it
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
You should be able to find video of the ceremony
…. here.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thanks Al!
So it’s been a few months, any explanation yet to why you’re Al Yellon and not Al yet?
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Al got married! That must be the explanation. ;-)
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Not according to facebook!
lol
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
LOL
You missed that explanation? I made it months ago. It’s because of SB Nation Chicago; at all the regional sites we post under our real names. I figured it was easier to just change it when I did.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Good to know. Guess I just missed it. Had a rough, very busy summer
So when’s the wedding? And why haven’t I gotten my invite yet?!
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Football is the #1 sport in America
I like football, but I’ve always loved baseball. However, the fact is that America is a football country more so than a baseball one. It’s true that the economy is bad and that’s one reason why the Rays aren’t drawing lots of people. But if the Florida Gators and Florida State Seminoles played a football game at Tropicana Dome, that place would be packed.
Colin Cowherd on ESPN Radio virtually ignores baseball and talks college and pro football every week. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t listen to him. I used to when he first started out on ESPN, but when he started sucking up to Pete Carroll and making erroneous statements I stopped listening. But Cowherd is right when he says that Americans love football more so than baseball. When the Seahawks played the Steelers in the Super Bowl, millions of Americans watched. Would that happen if the Mariners played the Pirates in the World Series? Outside of Pennsylvania and Washington, no.
The irony is that MLB has tried so hard to emulate the NFL with the wild-card, interleague play, expanding the playoffs and realignment proposals, but MLB continues to flounder while the NFL flourishes.
by jeffmills1972 on Oct 10, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Two words why baseball has floundered.
Bud Selig.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Mount Washington conquered July 5, 2010! State high point count: 3/50
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
tell it like it is VCF!!!!
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Oct 10, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Something to keep in mind about Cowherd
He openly admits his #1 objective is to be popular. He tailors the talking points of his show around topics which generate interest, which in turn generates ad sales during his time slot, which in turn keeps him employed. Not much of what he says on his show is generic or germane to what he himself actually thinks and feels; like Madonna, he is constantly taking the pulse of the demographic and reinventing himself when necessary.
Personally I think he’s a douchenozzle but I credit him for being honest about himself.
I feel your pain
I live in Portland Oregon; besides somewhat interesting NBA, crappy soccer and pinball are considered “major league” sports.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
perhaps
but realistically, their lack of top tier pitching is what doomed them. There’s going to be a lot of talk about the loss of Morneau, and that probably was a huge factor, but they really need a complement to Liriano. Guys like Pavano, Duensing, Baker are capable, but not the arms you want to go to war with in the playoffs, particularly against a team like the Yankees, with their great offense and solid pen.
To some extent, they’ve sort of become the Braves of the 1990’s (or Braves-lite). A team that is capable of getting to the playoffs, but lacking the weapons to make consistent deep pushes into the playoffs.
by toonsterwu on Oct 10, 2010 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like the 90s Braves
But utterly backward. Those Braves had pitching coming out of their ears, but an inconsistent offense (and the fact that Maddux pitched like crap on less than 5 days’ rest) doomed their playoff efforts.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Except they breezed through the AL Central without Morneau.
I’d agree that the Twins’ pitching isn’t really good enough to win a playoff series.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This series reminded me a lot of the NLDS two years ago
The Cubs had home field advantage and were generally favored, but ended up going three-and-out against the Dodgers with a whimper.
Not without Morneau
But for the last month
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Maybe they just are not that good
They don’t have enough starting pitching to beat a lineup like the Yankees. Too many pitch to contact guys, and that is usually very dangerous against a lineup like the stinkin Yankees run out there every night.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Oct 10, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
As has been said, it is the lack of top tier pitchers
If you have a solid pitching staff, but basically 1 or 0 lock down guys that you can count on for 7 innings and 2 or less earned, you can’t win in the playoffs. There really is a pretty big difference between being built for the long haul and built for the playoffs. Think about the pitchers who don’t even see the field in the playoffs but are incredibly important in the regular season.
You seem to be saying that the playoffs aren't a crapshoot
Or aren’t they after the DS?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Feeling Minnesota
The Twins aren’t cursed. I think they lack a leader. They’re kind of like the late 1970s Phillies before Pete Rose arrived. I really think that the loss of Torii Hunter hurt the team. He was the leader in the clubhouse. They’ve got Orlando Hudson who is a fiery guy, but they lack that one guy who is the missing ingredient. Just like the Cubs never had that one guy in the clubhouse in 2008. DeRosa was probably the closest one to being THE leader, but he wasn’t the guy.
I think a lot of it is psychological. Teams play the Yankees or go to Yankee Stadium and are overwhelmed by the mystique and aura of it. The 2004 Red Sox weren’t. And from 2004-2007 the Yankees did not have the good pitching that they have now. I really think that has a lot to do with it.
by jeffmills1972 on Oct 10, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Curt Schilling is tiresome but I love the one line of his
“‘Mystique’ and ‘aura’ are the names of strippers”.
Success in the playoffs
Is determined by:
1. Your pitching staff
2. Your offense against top of the order guys.
Somebody get this guy a job in the front office.
He gets it.
"All right, you ragtag bunch of misfits! You hate me, and I hate you even more. But without my beloved ringers, you're all I've got. So I want you to remember some inspiring words that someone else might have told you over the course of your lives, and go out there and win!"
by Lord Palmerston on Oct 10, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd give him $3M/yr
If I didn’t give it to Peter Gammons first
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Good points, Al
As far as the Twins/Yankees are concerned, I think the swagger, whatever you want to call it, that the Yankees have is so evident in every team they assemble, that they are simply on another level than the rest of the league. When they don’t go deep in the playoffs is the outlier, in a way.
Yes, they are loaded and have been for many years, but other teams that are loaded just can’t beat them consistently when the big prize is on the line,
I haven’t seen all the games this post season, but based on what I have seen, I foresee a Yankees/Phillies rematch.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
Because they're scared?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Here's hoping somebody will show them their ass this year...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's not always the best team that wins...
It’s the team that’s playing the best. I think that’s a partial explanation for what happened in the Cubs/Dodgers series in 2008.
Also, Al, I believe tonight’s Reds/Philles game is in Cincinnati, not Philadelphia.
Eamus Catuli!
by wrigley_boy on Oct 10, 2010 9:48 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
You're right.
I’ll fix it. The Gameday link is correct.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Look at the Rockies in 2007
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
The Twins
I expected them to lose to the Yankees. Their problem starts with the starting pitching. They are a deep team and their solid fundamentals can help through the long season but in a short series it is starting pitching and a few big hits. The depth doesn’t mean as much. You need starting pitching, a closer and a few key hits.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
There you go
Good fundamentals get you to the playoffs, but they are just a small piece once there.
Fundamentals
Lou Pinella scoffs at such a suggestion!
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Oct 10, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Still with the Lou-bashing?
He’s gone, have you read the papers lately? And Hendry is still here making a mess.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:41 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Imbalance in Divisions, Schedule
I was thinking the other day about the Twins regular season success in the 2000’s, and came to the conclusion that one of the keys to their success is who they play, and how often. Think about who the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays have to play all season – each other, plus a Jays team that was not a walkover this year. The Twins? They got fat on the Royals, Indians, Tigers, and an arguably decent team in the White Sux. In essence, not all division winners are created equally. (see Reds v. Phillies)
The unbalanced schedule means the Yankees had to play the Sox, Rays, and Jays for almost a third of their schedule. Sure, they got some freebees against Baltimore, but I can even see them moving in the right direction.
Plus, as much as the Yankees beat the Twins, Minnesota beat themselves, and do regularly against New York. A lack of Justin Mourneau in the middle of the lineup doesn’t help, either.
The Yankees can be beaten in a 7 game series this year, and I think the Rangers, with Lee dominating, can be the team to knock them off. Here’s hoping!
Scott Bora$ is satan.
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Oct 10, 2010 10:13 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Looks like we gotta wait just a tad bit longer for a managerial decision...
…Joe’s got a bit more work to do in NY.
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Maybe...50/50?
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
You just don't give up, do you.
The ALCS will go until at least Tuesday, October 19, and possibly as late as Saturday, October 23 — and that’s if there are no rainouts.
Prediction: the Cubs will have a new manager by then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You appear to be in a hurry, Al...
…there’s nothing gained by a speedy, wayward managerial pick. If they make a choice before giving Girardi the option of turning it down, then the organization has done not only a disservice to the team, but, to the entire fan base. 102 years and counting, Al. 102 years of “wait ’til next year”. They need to at least wait ‘til THIS year is over, and weighing ALL possibilities, before making more slipshod choices. “Nothing ventured…Nothing gained”.
Probably shouldn’t get this started again. I’m obviously missing the point of why the hurry.
Go Bears!!!
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Maybe...50/50?
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
We agree on "Go Bears".
I stand by my prediction.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Also, the deeper the Yankees go into the postseason...
…. the greater the chance they simply extend his contract. The Cubs won’t be allowed to interview him. Thus your statement on “disservice” is irrelevant.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's not only up to the Yankees - remember?
What is this “simply extend his contract” stuff? Unless there’s a team option in that contract, maybe Joe will say “hold on, I want to look around”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Why is that a reach?
Unless you know what Girardi is thinking, why is it a reach?
There’s no probability here, no stats, no percentages to be played. Plain and simple, there are two decision to be made here, each by a different party. One, the Yankees have to decide if they want Girardi back or not. And two, Girardi has to decide if he wants to come back or not.
When you use words like “simply extend his contract”, you are strongly implying that Joe has no say in this process. That’s simply not true.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Of course it isn't.
But that will essentially be the result, in my opinion.
You’re ascribing things here that either have already happened or are about to happen, and making us believe that these decisions have not already been made, which they likely have.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
His contract expires this year...
…and the Yanks are not going to extend him during the playoffs.
Girardi is going to be a free agent manager and can go where he pleases, just like a player.
He has always been the “best” candidate to me, but we don’t know what is going through his head in regards to the Cubs gig, only he knows that.
With that said, considering there is a real possibility there could be new baseball leadership in the next year, I’m not certain Mike Quade is not your best choice.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Girardi isn't foolish
Why would he leave a winning tradition to come to work for Hendry? Or any other seasoned manager for that matter. No, Hendry will never lure anyone but a rookie manager or an unsuccesful manager.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hypothetical situation here because you've made your feelings pretty clear...
…but what if you thought Girardi was clearly head & shoulders above Quade and Sandberg in terms of being the right man for the job. Wouldn’t you want the Cubs to wait to see if there was a chance to get the guy you think is the best candidate for the job?
Again, I know you don’t feel that’s the case, but what if Ricketts and/or Hendry does? Do you really think 2-3 weeks is worth settling for the #2 guy on your list for the next 2-3 years?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
here's my opinion...
Ricketts/Hendry already knows if Girardi would be interested or not
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're right.
Everyone else is making up scenarios to fit their desire for Girardi to get the job.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As are you to fit your desire for the Cubs to make an early decision
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No, it is my belief they will do so, based on things I have heard.
Yes, I also desire that. But it’s not just guessing on my part. On yours, I believe it is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not guessing. I'm merely acknowledging the possiblity exists...
…and that that possibility is not some remote hopeless one-in-a-million longshot; rather it is simply a yes/no scenario, highly dependent on the whims of an individual.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
All I'm saying is...
…. that those whims are likely already settled, based on information I have heard.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
LOL
Actually, I should probably have said I believe BOTH whims are likely settled.
Prediction: the Cubs will have a new manager before the World Series begins.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So, based on what you've heard...
the Cubs did reach out to Girardi (in various indiscreet ways so as not to invoke tampering charges) and they determined he was not interested in pursuing the Cubs manager position?
or it never got that far – the Cubs didn’t even bother reaching out because they felt they already have what they’re looking for?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I believe the latter is true.
Again, I have no specific confirmation of this, but based on what I have heard, that is the conclusion I am drawing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, if they've already got what they're looking for...
then they deserve what they get.
If it’s how you say it is, then why the big secret? If there’s a hire BEFORE Girardi is approached, then BOTH Hendry and Ricketts are fools. You gain NOTHING by acting swiftly here. You lose NOTHING by waiting.
OT: How long before the Bears’ offensive line actually gets someone maimed or killed?
Joe Girardi...2011 Chicago Cubs Manager...Maybe...50/50?
Adam Dunn..2011 Chicago Cubs First Baseman - 3 yrs/$42 mill with a club option for a 4th.
I don't quite understand your mancrush on Girardi.
Sure, the Yankees have been winners under him. Don’t you think just about anyone could win with that roster?
You gain NOTHING by acting swiftly here. You lose NOTHING by waiting.
Disagree. The Cubs need to start putting things together NOW — not waiting until after the World Series for someone who is likely unavailable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I like Girardi but...
I don’t see him leaving the Yankees. Also, I think the Cubs would do better with either Quade or Sandberg. Quade has limited major-league experience, but he’s been successful. Both were successful in the minors and are familiar with a lot of the Cubs players. I just think that’s better than hiring an outsider like an Eric Wedge, Bob Melvin or Don Wakamatsu.
I’d like to see Quade have Sandberg as his bench coach and hire a new guy for the third-base coach job. Heck, maybe he’ll even have a new pitching coach next year. Sandberg can work with Quade and get his feet wet coaching in the big-leagues. This also ensures that he stays with the Cubs for awhile. And, if God forbid Quade does a terrible job, the Cubs have Sandberg to replace him.
by jeffmills1972 on Oct 10, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Prediction: it will be Quade
As much as I want Sandberg, I really think that Quade’s going to be the Cubs manager next year.
by jeffmills1972 on Oct 10, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
You are indeed correct, sir.
"Don't shed any tears. You think about this: Here I am, the grandson of a slave. And here the whole world was excited about whether I was going into the Hall of Fame or not. We've come a long ways." BUCK O'NEIL
by HotDogDude on Oct 11, 2010 2:50 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Division Series needs to expand to 7 gamess......
……having a great record over 162 games and having your future determined by a very short 3 out of 5 series is just not right.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on Oct 10, 2010 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
⇧THIS⇧
"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.
more than anything else I would want this change
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Go Phillies !!! But I really wish it was Go Cubs...
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
do you get the Phillies game?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes via MLB.TV and the internet, but the game starts at 2:00 AM my time.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
oh jeez that's late! well....Go Phillies!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll listen to the audio archive tomorrow at work.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
Middle of the night, one way or the other
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
hahahaha suck it Reds!!!
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Oct 10, 2010 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
don't agree on manager deadline
think they’ll wait and see on Joe G. just a hunch….If Yankees get to WS he’s almost certain to stay in NY I gotta think. They’re rolling at this point but that could change vs. Tex.
Anyone else worried about Blackhawks? Need to cut their goals against from last year and I’m not sure Turco’s up to it. No way do they duplicate last year’s reg. season success, but they posted most points in team history. Just gotta make playoffs and go from there…
What a lot of people forget...
… is that the Blackhawks were 14 seconds from going down three games to two to Nashville in the first round, with game six in Nashville. They might have been eliminated in the first round, it was that close. That huge win helped propel them through the playoffs. That’s a perfect storm that’s hard to repeat.
It’s the same way in any baseball playoff game or series. A very small thing can turn a game or series. Think about this: what if Ryan Dempster strikes out James Loney on that very close pitch with the bases loaded? Then Dempster’s out of the 5th inning with a 2-0 lead, the momentum stays the Cubs’ way and maybe the bullpen shuts the Dodgers down the rest of the way.
Obviously, it didn’t happen; Loney hit the grand slam. But you can see how one very small play can shift momentum in the playoffs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed, and this is also why I believe one play can determine a whole game or series
like Game 6 in the 1985 World Series, the 1986 World Series, and the 2003 NLCS.
I hate to say it, but...
The Twins probably won’t get over the hump until they replace Ron Gardenhire as manager. They’ve only won a single playoff series with him as manager and that was back in 2002. After 1-3 finishes in the playoffs in 2003 and 2004, you get what you see here. Something’s got to change.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
What?
The Twins don’t even get to where they are — a perennial contender — without Gardenhire. I fail to see how replacing the manager there is going to change anything.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
In my opinion
If a manager can’t win in the playoffs, his regular season record is worthless.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
Fair enough.
Still, I don’t think Gardenhire is the problem. As discussed above, the Twins need better pitching to win in the postseason.
In my opinion, the Cubs starting pitching this year was better than the Twins.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Of course the Cubs had better pitching than the Twins
If Gardenhire isn’t the problem, one has to wonder what the problem is. The Twins under Gardenhire have a 2-12 playoff record against the Yankees. They haven’t won a playoff game since 2004, which was the last time they beat the Yankees in a postseason game. It’s notable because they were all first round exits. Maybe you can excuse the Twins because the Yankees won two pennants during Gardenhire’s run as manager and would have won a third if not for a massive meltdown against the Red Sox in 2004.
The overall playoff record under Gardenhire isn’t that respectable. They only won a single playoff series against Oakland in 2002, but lost to the Angels in the ALCS. Since then, it’s been all first round exits. Minnesota’s playoff record under Gardenhire is 6-21, which is absolutely godawful.
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).
Free BLou
But you are ascribing the failure to the manager.
Which I believe is unfair.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I can somewhat sympathize with Ace, as a Tigers fan
Jim Leyland’s teams always seem to find a way to run out of gas at the end. They sputtered at the finish of the 2006 season, and although they ended up winning the pennant they threw the ball away and lost the World Series. In 2007 they blew a big lead in August and missed the playoffs, and in 2009 they not only choked away a three game lead with four games to go but also crapped the bed in a one-game playoff against the Twins.
Leyland made a comment last September that was very telling to me. He said, “Hey, if we’re not good enough then we’re not good enough.” Is that really the kind of attitude you want in your manager? Do you want that kind of nonchalance rubbing off on your players? And how long has he felt like that?
uh oh, I sense a new acronym in the offing... HIWNGETWNGE
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Al...
…I believe you pin most the 08 Cub playoff blame on Piniella and I believe that is totally unfair as well.
Match ups and how each player performs determines playoff success, not the manager. Look at Bobby Cox and Tony Larussa. Combined they have been to the playoffs over 20 times, and have won only 3 WS between them.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Of course it's on player performance.
I still believe that those players’ manager did not do all he could to properly prepare them to perform their best.
Fair enough?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So...
When it happens to the Cubs, it is okay to blame the manager, but it is fair to blame the manager of other teams?
Depends on the situation.
It’s not a one-size-fits-all thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al...
…you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I just disagree.
I could see a rookie manager (in the playoffs for the first time) getting caught up in the emotion of his first playoff appearance, but not a veteran like Lou or Gardenhire who are battle tested.
Way too much is placed on a managers head when the players fail to perform under pressure situations.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Think about this: Lou was credited with out-thinking Jerry Manuel in the 2000 ALCS when he was with the Mariners. But eight years later — well, maybe he was just tired, or not thinking, or something, because that team won for six months then stopped.
Sure, that was the players not performing. But it was also, in my opinion, the manager not properly preparing them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
this is why I tend to blame the manager for playoff failure...
during the season he has his troops, the manager is sort of in a bootcamp mode studying his players closely, every year is different even with the same players. He should be getting to know who can do what, who performs under pressure, who doesnt, where and when to use them to the team’s best advantage. He has plenty of time to do this. He wants to win every battle, but the war isnt over. He works them hard preparing them for the final battle of all battles. During the playoffs, the troops are there for him but its up to the manager to play the game of chess that is about to begin. Now he must use his brain and calculate each move he makes. He is the one who must maneuver them to victory! ….this is how and what I think
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you are way off base.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I know I probably am...
but I cant help but use hindsight watching the playoffs and many times it seems (to me anyway) like its a strategical error or decisions made by the manager that cost the game. I think its just my nature to blame the guy in charge. I do try to keep more of an open mind about it tho…. :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 11, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions
You just played 162...
…and the team played well, so I don’t understand your thought process.
Do you think he forgets how to manage come playoff time, but does very well over several months?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Indeed a crapshoot
Making the division playoff series a best of 7 would help settle a few ruffled feathers as well as make for more playoff games in total as opposed to fewer.
I don’t really think they can do much overall to make the playoffs more than a crapshoot unless they do what it takes to completely balance the competition for the regular season. Even then somebody is going to argue. In the meantime, if you like or don’t mind a crapshoot, then your feathers are probably looking good.
Not worth a separate fanpost but see if you can guess what pitcher is being talked about here:
(Hint: He’s rumored to be on the trading block…)
"Everyone knows what he is,’’ said an executive. "He can be frustrating to watch, walks a lot of guys, throws too many pitches, but at the end of the day his stuff is so good that he’s capable of doing what he did his first two years in the league and that’s win a lot of games. Personally, I’d be surprised if the Red Sox did anything, but if they do, they’ll have teams interested.’’
Admit it – up until the Red Sox reference, you would have guessed Z, right? Actually, the pitcher in question here is Daisuke Matsuzaka. I just thought it was an interesting how much it sounded like Z, or at least what I would expect other baseball folks to be thinking when they consider trading for Z.
And the similarities continue – in the article, the writer here (Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo) goes on to ponder how much the Red Sox would have to eat salary-wise in order to move him, although Dice-K only has $20 million left on his.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And Z has, what? $24M?
To hell with it – keep him around next year. If nothing else, he’ll make it fun for the kids.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I would rather keep Z
dice-k is a do not want.
Not to mention the fact that Z has already stated he will exercise his NTC.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If anyone cares Fonty is in the lineup today
Due up first in the next inning.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
he did good!!!!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Leadoff triple
very close to a home run. Heyworth hurt trying to catch it. GO LBR.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Or, Heyward.
When I went to Atlanta in 2007, I saw Fontenot hit a home run to right-center, about the same angle, maybe halfway up the seats.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fonty scores. bad play by Braves
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
I read somewhere that DeRo was in the dugout...anybody see him yet?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
there's a close-up on Fonty...he looks like he wishes it was the Cubs out there.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Fonty is up again and DLee gets him out
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
that seemed surreal...or is it just the pain pills?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
It is not surreal yet
but if D-Lee grounds into a DP started by Fonty it would for me.
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Braves radio announcers making jokes about a game of interest.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
jeez I am loopy...been warching this whole game and didnt notice
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
The commentators are really dumb
One of them just said Fontenot’s triple was his first triple of the series. It was his first AB, if he had grounded out it would have been his first ground out of the series,
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
Must have been Stockton who said that.
He’s terrible.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well I'm going to bed now. Won't have to listen to him any longer... ;-)
Guten Nacht!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
there goes the GOI....Guten Nacht eths!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Träum 'was schönes!
BTW: The Atlanta radio twits were really proud of themselves for calling the hit that ended the GOI.
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
it shouldn't count if the only hit is by the pitcher ;)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree. Stockton is terrible.
You would think that TBS could do better. Heck, I’d take Dick Enberg. Even if I had to listen to about 50 “Oh mys!” a night.
by jeffmills1972 on Oct 10, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Doug Heffernan hit that
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Me too
Huff shut them up
"...the name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back." Ryne Sandberg 7/31/05
by shifafaontheside on Oct 10, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I really like the Braves
but it is ironic that the classiest organization in baseball has such bad fans. They don’t support them and when they do it is with that horrid “chant & chop”
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I saw the wave today
Who the F*** does the wave during a playoff game?
"...the name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back." Ryne Sandberg 7/31/05
by shifafaontheside on Oct 10, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
people that haven't been to a game in 10 years? they dont know it isnt done anymore :)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
OK now the idiot commentator says
How much the Braves would like a clutch DP like yesterday. Really with TWO OUTS?
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
DeRo sighting in the Giants dugout
"...the name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back." Ryne Sandberg 7/31/05
by shifafaontheside on Oct 10, 2010 6:44 PM CDT reply actions
I bet the Braves would take him to play 2B
even if he has a bum arm
"Lou Piniella's been a great manager for a long time and I stand by him completely"
Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Oct 10, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
AWWWW I missed it...I was typing dammit!!!!!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Conrad is single-handedly giving the Giants this series
"...the name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back." Ryne Sandberg 7/31/05
by shifafaontheside on Oct 10, 2010 6:45 PM CDT reply actions
C'mon Giants and C'mon Phillies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Good job by both teams....
hehehehe…..Brandon Phillips looked like he was about to start crying. teehee
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
OT: I wonder if Brian Wilson, of the Giants, can sing in a falsetto voice
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
Giants lost
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
huh?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Oct 10, 2010 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Can he sing in a falsetto voice????
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
lol at the Reds ^-^
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
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