Sullivan Tweet: Fox Sports puts Bartman video from Game 6, complete with freeze frame of him bungling the foul ball, in TV promo for upcoming NLCS.
This makes me want to spit tacks. I hate you Fox Sports. Hate.
over 1 year ago
Emelie
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Unfortunately, it's a rare instance where the MSM actually THINKS
of a fresh approach or goes beyond what is easy.
This will be the case until the Cubs give people something other than ultimate failure as their frame of reference for the team.
You think FOX would be using that video had the Cubs hung on and WON game 6 (or even game 7) of the 2003 NLCS? No, they’d be using the celebration of the pennant or (dare we dream) the WS championship.
We can complain all we want about it. But until the Cubs WIN on the big stage, the MSM will ALWAYS fall back on what is trite, superficial and easy. Nothing that requires any thought.
And I work in the MSM. I speak from first hand observation.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
That he is
my complaint isn’t based on how tired we all are of it (and we are)… it’s more for Bartman himself, although I’m sure he’s come to terms with all of it now too. Hate to see the man caught in Groundhog Day.
Game thread? Heck.
I was at the game. You should have seen and heard how the poor guy was booed, had garbage thrown at him and sworn at unmercifully. He had to be removed from the grandstand for his own safety. I was embarrassed to be a Cubs fan.
I’ve said this here on BCB before, but if that play happens in the first inning no one thinks anything of it.
SB didn’t pitch. He didn’t field. He didn’t hit. That’s on the gentlemen who were ON the field that night. He’d not the reason the Cubs lost the NLCS 2003. The Cubs choked.
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Correct.
But try telling that to the lazy national media.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We get the media we deserve
Here I’m using the “royal we” instead of referring strictly to BCB. The MSM wants to pull in the Great Unwashed, and will therefore appeal to the trite/superficial/easy.
Has there been a bigger NLCS play since? Maybe Albert’s shot off Lidge in 2005, but it didn’t change the course of that series.
Bartman was a big deal. It still is.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 11, 2010 5:37 PM CDT reply actions
The gist of the promo is “tune in to see what happens this time.”
Garvey is in there, as well as GO CRAZY FOLKS, Fernandomania, etc.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 11, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
It does, but only because the team freaked out.
Bartman had nothing to do with the game outcome. Alou and the rest of the team did.
by Fraggin Judge on Oct 12, 2010 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Nothing to do with the outcome? Nothing?
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 12, 2010 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Less to do with the outcome than Alex Gonzalez, Dusty Baker, and Mark Prior?
How does that work for you?
Works for me. Bartman at 4, Bernie Mac at 5.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 12, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
But it has to do with promoting their product
And Zeke above had it dead nuts on:
This will be the case until the Cubs give people something other than ultimate failure as their frame of reference for the team.
and..
We can complain all we want about it. But until the Cubs WIN on the big stage, the MSM will ALWAYS fall back on what is trite, superficial and easy. Nothing that requires any thought.
Colleague of mine who’s a fan of another big name MLB team told me, “it’s not that the Cubs lose, it’s how they lose”.
Just win the next game...!
by blackhawk24 on Oct 13, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL.
Cubs are popular even when we suck on the field…er, aren’t even on the field!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I saw that
and my first word was – Seriously, comeon man – and then I felt pity for Mr Bartman – may his ability to leave that in the past and lead a normal life RIP
The moral of the story? Don’t be a horse’s ass in front of an international television audience and you won’t wind up on an NLCS promo.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 11, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh God.
Horse’s ass? That would be the guy who blames ’03 on Bartman.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Oct 11, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So if you were in the exact situation @ that moment
with all the excitment…. you don’t think know you won’t have NEVER done anything like that. So it couldn’t possibly be you who 7 years later is still being haunted by it?
I would have almost sold my soul to be @ that game. I hope I won’t have done that, but I can’t sit here and say that for sure.
How do you feel about the Cub that made the error that inning? He also made an error that extended the inning in front of international television audience. It’s his job to make that play. But 7 years later, how many people that aren’t Cubs fan can even remember his name.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 12, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes, I can say for sure that I would not pull a Bartman.
He willingly touched the baseball. He put himself into the game lore, into this Fox promo. No one pushed him out of his seat.
As I’ve said many times, he is in no way the only reason we lost. AGon was also a horse’s ass, as was Baker – but Bartman is right there with them.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 12, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
You really can't say that unless you were there in the moment.
You really think that if a baseball is heading your way, you would get out of the way even though there was no sure thing for the fielder to catch it?
Easy to say seven years later. Not so easy if you’re making that choice with about five seconds to decide.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
exactly.
I just remember about 3-4 more people reaching for it. He was just the “unlucky” one to get his hands on it". I would have reached for it. like you say, its just human nature.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
I’ve sat in the front row on numerous occasions, and I always stay aware of my surroundings and the game situation. Pre-Bartman and post-Bartman.
In the upper deck, lunge away (at your own peril.) It’s wholly different downstairs.There are responsibilities that go along with good seats along the margins.
by bourbon_and_branch on Oct 12, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
As I said.
Easy to say sitting at a computer. Not so easy if you’re there.
The roundtable for the ESPN film I participated in was shot at the Abbey Pub on N. Elston Ave. in Chicago. Why? Because the owner was right next to Bartman. If you look at the video or photos, you’ll see a guy in a gray sweatshirt. That was him. He told us, “That could have been me.”
If you claim you’ll always get out of the way, you’re the only one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have thought about this often.
Would I have had the presence of mind to be aware of my surroundings and get the hell out of the way? Problem is, when the ball goes up, especially if it looks like it’s heading your way, you’re watching the ball, not Moises Alou. It’s more self-defense than anything, because you don’t want to get hit with the ball.
I will say this: to completely blame Bartman for losing the NLCS, or even that one game, is ridiculous. However, it was a factor in the loss. I strongly disagree with people who say it was a meaningless play in a 7-game series or did not matter at all. Most people who say this, I believe, are people who feel sorry for Bartman. I feel terrible for him too. But having watched that play as many times as I have in the years since, I still maintain the Alou catches that ball, based on his positioning, the timing of his jump (which was perfect), and the fact that the ball was only one row deep into the stands and therefore very catchable. We’ll never know, but it looked like he had it all the way. And if he catches that ball, you have two outs, one runner on, Prior does not get rattled, nor does Gonzalez or anyone else, the Marlins have no momentum, and you take it from there. Momentum in the playoffs means absolutely everything, and you can say that if he had not touched that ball and Alou makes the catch, I think the Cubs hang on and win that game. Now, make of that what you will. Don’t blame Bartman, but it’s fair to say that what happened on that seemingly insignificant play was a MAJOR factor in how that series turned out. It should not have been, but it was.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
What else would you expect?
It’s low hanging fruit. No imagination needed.
It's part of history
Honestly, as a Cubs fan and a TV producer, I probably would have included that clip in the promo as well.
I wouldn't.
I don’t believe it’s relevant to anything.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The play was relevant. The ensuing outcry and continuing media feeding frenzy isn't.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'll agree with the second part.
The play was… somewhat relevant. It’s not why the Cubs lost the game.
You are correct about the media feeding frenzy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
'somewhat relevant'
It is extremely relevant. As you’ve noted before, the Cubs play in an increasingly pressure-packed environment, and the Bartman play not only inspired the Marlins (“Let’s make that guy famous”), it also was the the spark that led to Prior losing his head, Gonzalez botching a sure DP ball and the Cubs losing their mental edge.
You can argue that the Cubs should have pulled themselves together. But they didn’t. And the Bartman play was the first thing that clearly shook the Cubs’ resolve.
Well, that last part is completely true.
That’s what I blame Dusty for. Instead of coming out to calm his pitcher and his team down, he sat there and did nothing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't see it necessary but I do see your point
But then also include a quick shot of the error that inning.
''"I always thought I was the most competitive person out there. I never thought I'd find anybody more competitive until I met him.'' Ryan Dempster talking about Ted Lilly
by Madison Cub Fan on Oct 12, 2010 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions
This isn't a big deal.
How often did we see clips of the ball going through Bill Buckner’s legs?
Yabbut...
… that was an actual player making a play on the actual field that, you know, actually lost the game for his team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Right. But the play didn't cost Boston the series.
In both situations, the affected team could have won Game 7.
I know we’re all tired of hearing about Bartman, and I know all the qualifiers (Gonzalez, Dusty not talking to Prior and not bringing in Clement, etc.).
The Bartman play and the subsequent fallout was one of the biggest baseball stories in the past 10 years. It’s not shocking at all to me — nor is it really objectionable — for it to be shown so often. The fact that Bartman was a fan and Buckner was a player doesn’t really change any of that.
Right.
The difference is, of course, Buckner’s error lost the game. The Cubs still led 3-0 after the Bartman thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As I noted above ...
the Bartman play was the match that lit the fuse. I don’t really think there’s any question about that.
You don't anymore
Winning cures all.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Oct 12, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
Except balls going through legs seem to occur much more often in playoffs than they should. A fan interference like that has only happened twice. Bartman and a Red Sox game in 2004 or 2007 if anyone remembers that. It was near homeplate instead of the outfield.
What's amazing is
if this was a Fox Sports announcer gaffe, it would die a quick and quiet death. Any mention of the incedent from Fox Spirts would be “Let’s move on.”
Maybe the Cubs need to fight back – deny Fox Sports a press pass for a series, etc.
But I doubt it. No one in the Cubs organization knows how to get mad.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
Yeah, right.
Do you really think a Major League team would refuse credentials to a network that televises baseball because the network shows a 7-year-old play (in the eyes of some fans) too often?
The old cliche is that you never get into a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel. If the Cubs did deny Fox press credentials, Fox would probably make a bigger deal of the play that led to the refusal of the credentials.
That's an old cliche for an old time
There are too many news outlets today to let one company step on you. New reporters/outlets are like lawyers – dime a dozen. If the Cubs cut off Fox Sports, it would be a story for 1 news cycle – a blip.
I bet Fox doesn’t show the ARod swipe at the ball play from the 2004 ALCS Game 6 vs. Boston. Hmmm
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Oct 12, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, come on.
Fox isn’t just one news outlet. It’s the network affiliate that broadcasts baseball. The Cubs would make this a bigger story and would look like complete amateurs if they took your advice.
How much bigger could it be?
bigger? really!
Tell me what bad PR the Cubs could get? Because they aren’t getting any good PR by Fox running this again – didn’t they do SB, Nomar, and the goat in 2004 or 2005?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Oct 12, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
A clip in a montage is hardly a big deal.
Get a grip.
Let's see what comes out
personally, I thought the SB, Nomar, and the goat miusic video was out of line. Just not classy.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Oct 12, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it's classy.
It’s also not that big of a deal.
There's no way the Cubs can deny Fox Sports a press credential.
MLB wouldn’t allow it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Then why is anyone complaining?
Suck it up and be prepared to be stepped on.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on Oct 12, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Suck it up, definitely.
But we’re not getting stepped on. This isn’t a big deal.
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