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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

There's a few other things in this column, but in my book, that puts Dunn in the "forget it" category. Way too much.

over 1 year ago Alyellontoppscard_tiny Al Yellon 58 comments 0 recs  | 

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3 Years, $36 Million

I could see giving Dunn a deal like that, but 4 years, $60 million, is out of the question.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Nov 30, 2010 4:51 PM CST reply actions  

Would you consider 4/48?

Probably that extra year is worth more to him than the money…

by Doshi on Nov 30, 2010 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Nope

The Cubs already have too many expensive contracts on the books.

"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on Nov 30, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Personally

I would absolutely not give Dunn a 4th year. But if you (meaning the Cubs) liked him enough, then go for 4 years but then the average salary drops to $10M/per or less.

Again, I wouldn’t do that… but if he is adamant about the years, then we should get a sizable discount on the salary. Then it just becomes another dead weight contract for the last year.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 9:34 AM CST up reply actions  

No one will give him that.

I still think his best offer will be from the Nationals for 3 years. There are no serious rumors regarding Dunn right now because he doesn’t have anyone looking at him seriously at that salary.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Nov 30, 2010 4:52 PM CST reply actions  

Amazing.

That has to be bluster.

by elgato on Nov 30, 2010 4:53 PM CST reply actions  

Probably so.

Now, here’s where waiting out a free agent might help. If the Cubs still want Dunn, waiting could get the price and years down. Then it might be worth it.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 30, 2010 5:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I've always been in the Dunn camp, but

that is a ridiculous number. Could you imagine him in the 3rd or 4th year of that deal?

Pass

random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17

by AGC on Nov 30, 2010 5:02 PM CST reply actions  

hahahaha

He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA

by jesus christos on Nov 30, 2010 5:03 PM CST reply actions  

We don't need him!!!

We’ve got Scott Moore and Bryan LaHair!!! And Xavier Nady’s still out there as well!!!

That’s plenty of protection for ARam in the line-up!!!

by TheGrinch13 on Nov 30, 2010 5:07 PM CST reply actions  

Right.

Because the fact that the Cubs haven’t signed or traded for a 1B on November 30, means those guys will be the only ones on the roster on Opening Day.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Nov 30, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats right!

I am comfortable and feel we can win with what we have!

But I am sure JH will swing a deal if he feels one needs to be done!

I would look again at Nady, given the strong relationship between him and Quade!

by TJ11 on Nov 30, 2010 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Dunn will get 4 years

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-cubs-wrigley-bound/

by cubsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 6:23 PM CST reply actions  

Dunn

The thing is in such a weak FA class I’m fairly sure someone will give him 4 years.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-cubs-wrigley-bound/

by cubsfan1 on Nov 30, 2010 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

A serious question though

Who? I’m just out of options. The Orioles maybe?

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Nov 30, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Only an American League team....

might give him anything close to his asking price. I doubt any National League team is willing to meet it.

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain

by brook on Nov 30, 2010 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

but even in the AL who?

How many teams can afford that for a DH?

Kenny Williams seem to prefer cheaper options at DH. I doubt the Tigers will after the VMart signing since he is supposed to get a lot of DH time. Would Boston play Dunn at 1st for a year until Ortiz leaves? Maybe but they seem more intent on outfield help right now.

The Angels maybe if they lose Crawford and maybe the O’s if they want to try Luke Scott or Dunn at 1st. Neither team seem that legit to me though.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Nov 30, 2010 11:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, he could end up like he did last time...

signing for less money and less time than he wanted with the Nationals. The Nationals are willing to have him, they just don’t want to overpay. Can’t blame them either.

"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"--The Brain

by brook on Nov 30, 2010 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

No disagreement on that

My original question was to cubsfan1saying Dunn will get 4 years. I don’t see it right now.

John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.

by rlpete on Dec 1, 2010 8:12 AM CST up reply actions  

this is surprising to people?

really?

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Nov 30, 2010 6:41 PM CST reply actions  

I didn't

understand why people thought Dunn didn’t want to maximize his value. He’s still got a huge bat, flaws notwithstanding. I don’t think he’ll get 4/60, but I don’t think he’s going to be a bargain acquisition.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Nov 30, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions  

If he asked for 3 years

he’d get 2.

I’d be shocked if someone actually gave him what he wanted.

"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin

by bluemagic9 on Nov 30, 2010 7:27 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, but that was when...

…he was marketing himself as an outfielder. As a 1B/DH it’s a different story.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Dec 1, 2010 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Are you being serious, Daver?

If anything, the fact that he was marketing himself as an outfielder who could play first would have made him MORE attractive two years ago, wouldn’t it?

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions  

And now

he’s one of the (if not THE) worst defensive 1B in the game.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, but he's easier to hide there.

And he’s apparently less awful at first base than he is anywhere in the outfield. That’s probably easier for GMs to swallow when they factor in his ~40 bombs and 90+ RBI. And then there’s the DH option for AL clubs.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Dec 1, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I've said this before.

If Adam Dunn at 29 only got 2 years, $20 million, why would any team give him 4 years, $60 million two years later?

Obviously, Dunn was a bad outfielder two years ago. But given his age, it would have been reasonable to expect that he would be a better outfield (and first base) option at 30 than at 34 or 35.

Maybe there are some market dynamics that I don’t know about. But I really think Dunn will end up with three years, maximum.

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I think the market really is driving it.

He’s been one of the biggest names on the market this off-season and it would seem the economy is a little better for MLB teams (based on the VMart contract at least). Maybe he will end up with only three years. But it seems like he could bargain his way to four if a team really wants him.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Dec 1, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Well that's fine.

You seemed to be contending that he is now more attractive because he’s easier to hide at 1B. So why didn’t someone come along two years ago and say “uh, Adam, thanks for offering to play a little OF… but you’re a 1B and we will pay you accordingly.”

My point really was that he’s bad everywhere defensively… so I’m not sure why he’d be “more attractive” now when he is two years older. And, for the record, I am by no means saying he has no value… just that his value now certainly shouldn’t be higher than it was two years ago.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions  

he wasn't necessarily good at 1B in 2010

but he wasn’t bad either. UZR/150 had him at -3.3 on the year in his first full season at the position. by comparison, carlos pena, who has a reputation as an excellent defender checked in at -3.7.

by circuitclout on Dec 1, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

And this is where defensive metrics show their flaws.

While I think Pena is a tad overrated defensively, any statistic that suggests he and Dunn are even marginally similar at any component of defense simply can’t hold much validity. And I’m not just a run of the mill saber-basher, by any means.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions  

is the flaw in the stat

or in the belief that dunn is and always will be a butcher at any defensive position?

UZR hated dunn’s defense as a part-timer (sss) but wasn’t as bearish given a full season of data. it’s entirely possible that as an everyday 1B dunn is merely slightly below average rather than unbearable.

by circuitclout on Dec 1, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

In this case, watching Dunn play is all the sample that is needed.

He has no instincts, can’t scoop, and has no range.

His advantages are height and that he will catch most everything thrown to his chest.

He’s not the worst 1B ever… but he’s closer to that list than to being average.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

His value shouldn't be higher...

…, but the MLB free agent doesn’t always work that way. IIRC, Dunn was competing with Bradley, Abreu and Ibanez as a slugging outfielder the last time around. And teams were already starting to catch on about the importance of outfield defense (and defense overall). So he wound up with the ’Nats.

Right now, who else could be named as THE pre-eminent 1B/DH? No one really comes to my mind. That’s what Dunn is milking — age and poor defense at first base be damned.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Dec 1, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

I concur all around.

But wouldn’t Dunn have been the 2nd choice for 1B/DH two years ago, behind Tex?

I dunno. I know Dunn will get paid and I hope it isn’t by the Cubs… at least not for the contracts that are being bandied about.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

off the top of my head

i can’t think of a single team that would want 35-40 HRs and 100 RBIs a year from their first baseman, especially one that is on that is left-handed and on the of 30.

by circuitclout on Nov 30, 2010 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah...Who needs him...

…when there’s guys like Nady, Berkman, Pena, LaRoche and Overbay out there. 40 HRs and 100 RBIs be damned. We want that $5M a year guy who’ll hit 15 HRs and 65 RBIs.

The more I read, the more I realize TJ11 is not ONLY amazing, but, spot on!!!!!!!!!

"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed

by Easy Ed on Nov 30, 2010 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You're making a sweeping generalization -- which is right out of TJ's playbook.

I’d love Dunn to be a Cub, but I don’t want to sign him for four years and $60 million. I could probably live with three years and $45 million, but that fourth year makes him too expensive. What anyone could live with is highly subjective, admittedly.

Without looking at money, Dunn is the best available free agent option to fit the Cubs needs at first base. But is he $53 million better than Lance Berkman — who is said to be available for one year, $7 million?

There are those on BCB who don’t want to invest in someone like Dunn because they don’t see the point of spending money on a doomed 2011 team. While I can see the logic of that point, I’m more concerned with what Dunn would be, and what a drag he might become, in 2013-14. This is a guy who is not a good defender, and that won’t improve as he ages. More than that, I’ve read where he has the type of physique that won’t age well.

Given that Dunn got two years, $20 million after 2008, I’m holding out hope that his price will fall dramatically and the Cubs can pounce on a more palatable deal — similar to what happened with Bobby Abreu two years ago. Generally, I like the Cubs’ wait-and-see approach this offseason, because there’s less of a chance they’ll overpay relative to the market.

Adam Dunn is a good, not great, baseball player who would be fun to watch at Wrigley. But the Cubs aren’t likely to sign him this offseason because they’ve already given too many long-term deals to good, not great players.

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 8:39 AM CST up reply actions  

This.

Except… No way I’m giving him an annual salary of $15M. 3/39 is the absolute peak, IMO.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

And, for anyone "new" to this topic...

I would really be leery of Dunn for anything beyond 3/30.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree he will get more than 3/30, almost certainly.

Which means I don’t want the Cubs to be the ones spending it.

Shut up Joe Morgan.

by fsuapollo on Dec 1, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

It depends on how long those "other teams" want to wait him out.

The longer that takes, the lower the price goes.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 1, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

I want

a date with Cindy Crawford but that isn’t happening either. Dunn is the type of player that when his career goes south, it will go quick. Do not want to be holding a long term contract on him when it does (see Alfonso Soriano)

by ChicagoRobb on Nov 30, 2010 10:13 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think Dunn was ever

on the Cubs radar unless he would take a deal for 2 years and 20M, which I still don’t think the Cubs would do.

by Grockcubs on Nov 30, 2010 10:41 PM CST reply actions  

No

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on Dec 1, 2010 7:54 AM CST reply actions  

I don't blame him for trying.

Regardless of what people think about him, I have a real respect for Dunn. I respect him because of the simple fact he goes out there everyday, doesn’t get hurt, and does his thing and gets the job done he is required to do.

If the Cubs had players like that over the last two years, they would have done a lot better in the standings. (As would other teams)

by TheHawkRules on Dec 1, 2010 12:47 PM CST reply actions  

The Cubs have players like that.

Marlon Byrd? Ryan Demspter? Carlos Marmol? Sean Marshall? Ted Lilly (until he was traded)? Starlin Castro?

I’m not saying your description of Dunn isn’t accurate. But the Cubs have guys that fit your description. They just haven’t had enough of them and/or the right combination.

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

All of those guys were pitchers except...

…castro, who you can’t count because he has only played one season… and Byrd. While i like Byrd, he doesn’t put up the numbers Dunn has. Especially for what… 5-10 seasons straight?

Dunn hasn’t played fewer than 152 games a season since 03. Since that time, he averages basically 40 homers, 100 RBIs every season, while staying healthy. In my opinion… that is incredible. I respect that.

by TheHawkRules on Dec 1, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, OK. But here's you SAID you were looking for:

A player that “goes out there everyday, doesn’t get hurt, and does his thing and gets the job done he is required to do.”

You didn’t put time requirements, stat totals or anything else in explaining WHY you like Dunn. I was simply pointing out that Castro and Byrd would seem to meet your requirements.

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 1:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Understood. My bad...

I still wouldn’t put Castro into that catagory. He played in only 125 games last year and made close to 30 errors in those 125 games.

I honestly hope Castro continues to get better and becomes an all star… but I’m really worried his hitting was a fluke last year. I look forward to being proven wrong on that one.

So, if you take Castro out, that leaves only Byrd…

by TheHawkRules on Dec 1, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

If you're saying there's not enough talent on this roster, I agree.

If you’re saying that there’s not enough talent relative to the high payroll, I absolutely agree.

If you’re saying the Cubs were bad in 2010 because they “didn’t play the right way” or “didn’t have good character guys” … you lose me.

And if you say the Cubs don’t have guys who work hard every day, stay healthy and do their thing … you REALLY lose me.

by elgato on Dec 1, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

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