Report: Wood wants 2 years, $12 million
That would probably put him out of the Cubs' price range, unless the deal is severely back-loaded. I know, I know -- Wood might accept a discount to play in Chicago.
Some other good Cubs info in Rosenthal's piece. He essentially suggested the four-man outfield rotation suggested by some BCBers (fsu, I think?). There's also some interesting Garza analysis.
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I don't think that's unreasonable...
… presuming it’s backloaded. Remember, we heard earlier that he was looking for more than this. Maybe he’s realizing the demand for him isn’t that huge.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not saying it's unreasonable.
But doing this essentially rules out acquiring Garza — unless Kosuke gets traded or if Wood gets something like $2 million in 2011 and $10 million in 2012.
I know that you’ll mention Silva, Al. But if Silva IS traded, I can’t imagine any team picking up more than $1 million of the $6 million the Cubs owe him. Remember, this is an overweight pitcher with heart problems who had a good three months of baseball amid years of injuries and bad performance.
I have to assume that Hendry is trying to move the bad contracts.
Whether he’ll succeed is another story. If he can move EITHER Fukudome or Silva, that would give some room for other signings/trades.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Do you think anybody would really want Silva for more than $1 million a year?
I sure as hell don’t. And that’s significant because getting more salary room almost certainly hinges on dealing Kosuke.
I agree.
Fukudome is definitely more tradeable than Silva.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes.
As in, a car is more of a car than a horse is a car.
I really wish the name
“Horseless Carriage” stuck
by hansman1982 on Dec 15, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
It didn't?!
I feel foolish.
"A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores." Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger
I dunno.
Given the price of pitching, I could see someone willing to take a $2M flyer on Silva. SP is still a premium, even when it comes with a series of risks.
If I was another club, the nagging leg injuries would bother me more than the heart thing. I’m presuming that now that doctors are aware of the heart condition, it can be monitored and controlled (like any other number of conditions).
And I actually think Silva might be more dealable than Dome because of the parameters. Here’s the reasoning… I don’t see any team valuing Kosuke at more than $7M. If that is the case, that would put the Cubs on the hook for $7M+ (and upwards of $9-10M) for Dome to play somewhere else. While I understand the whole “sunk cost” argument, I just don’t see the Ricketts’ family approving that. Now, could they be talked into eating $4M to make Silva go away? I think that’s a maybe. So… based purely on the “eaten money”, I think Silva is more tradeable.
I’m not saying it WILL happen, but perhaps not completely crazy.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
You're forgetting something.
Aside from the first three months of 2010, Carlos Silva has been one of the worst pitchers in baseball for the past few seasons. We’re not just talking about injuries keeping him off the field — we’re talking about injuries making a pitcher who hasn’t been consistently effective even less consistently effective.
If Hendry can find somebody willing to pay $3.5 million for Carlos Silva, then he should make the deal yesterday. But I can’t imagine a team willing to do so.
Not forgetting that, at all.
But veteran SPs still get contracts.
And I don’t think someone would be willing to pay $3.5M… I think they might pay $2M.
In other words, I could see a GM talking themselves into a $2M roll of the dice that they could get 18-20 decent starts out of Silva.
And, again, not saying by any means that it will happen… only that I don’t think it would be crazy.
And the comparison question was who was more tradeable. If my projections on what $ other clubs would be willing to take on were accurate, then Silva is more tradeable.
If I’m wrong and someone would take on a bit more Kosuke’s deal, then he becomes imminently more tradeable.
Basically, I’m basing it all on how much I think other GMs would cover in salary combined with how much I think the Ricketts would simply be willing to “eat”. In the spirit of other threads, I’m speculating… and certainly could be wrong.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
I could be wrong, too.
I don’t see anybody paying Silva more than league minimum. SP does come at a premium, but I think Silva has too many qualifiers.
Good lord the guy was lights out for the first part of the season
If he could come anywhere near replicating that he is worth far more than a million bucks.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Then why hasn't he been traded?
Simple answer(s). He was terrible for several years before that, he’s an injury risk and he has heart problems.
Three good months of baseball in three or four years doesn’t negate the rest, DS.
Because he is worth more than a million to the Cubs?
I honestly don’t get why everyone is writing Silva off. It made sense this time LAST year. Maybe Cashner is thrown in as a starter but right now the Cubs need Silva unless and until they trade for another starter without giving one up?
FYI if 3 good months of baseball does not “negate” his 2 previous years of struggles WTF would anyone want Kerry Wood and his 8 weeks of good baseball?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's not worth that much to the Cubs -- not considering what is already under team control.
Why else would the Cubs be so dead set on acquiring another starter? If Silva is not someone to write off, why would the Cubs be looking to add Garza and Webb (or, at least one of them) if they already have Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, Gorzo, Silva, Cashner and Coleman in the mix?
Even if Cashner and Coleman aren’t starters, and even if the Cubs only add one starter from outside the organization, they still would have five starters and Silva. Remember, the Cubs were looking for another starter BEFORE the Zambrano trade speculation started, so that’s not part of this equation.
You’re unquestionably going to bring up the fact that the Cubs have shopped Gorzo. If Gorzo were traded, then Silva might have a place on the team, right?
Well, that’s (again) assuming that Coleman and Cashner are out of the mix. And it also shows who the Cubs think (or know) will be attractive to other clubs. If the Cubs could trade Silva and save $1 million or $2 million, don’t you think they’d rather do that than trade Gorzo (the rotation’s only lefty) at $2 million?
Finally, the Wood/Silva comparison doesn’t work because Wood finished the year healthy and effective, whereas Silva hardly pitched after the ASB.
I am confused
Silva has a place on the team WITH Gorzo, if they trade him he becomes even more important. I happen to think Silva is more reliable for next year than Cashner or Coleman. If you want to write the season off for rebuilding than indeed Silva does not matter.
The thing with Wood Vs Silva is that honestly you can’t really trust either of them, but one of them is under contract and the other costs 8-12 million.
I don’t object to signing Wood because like most Cubs fans I love the guy, but at least admit that is an insanely risky deal and stop acting like Silva is basically worthless. If I could “trade” Silva for Wood , great because like I said I love Wood, but that is not an option. Keep Silva unless you get someone willing to pay nearly all of his salary or some of the salary and a very good prospect.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
You completely didn't take into account ...
the fact that the CUBS ARE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER STARTER from outside the organization.
Hell, there were some reports that they’re trying to get Garza AND Webb.
Fine whent they actually GET another starter
they can try trading Silva, however I would take Silva over Webb in a heartbeat.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
The Wood signing...
… may mean Cashner will get a rotation slot — thus Gorzelanny might be tradeable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The point is ...
if Silva is SO valuable, why would the Cubs be interested in another starter — particularly a reclamation project like Brandon Webb?
Teams tend to stock up on SP
and Silva has only one year left so they look beyond next season. Also if the Cubs were basically writing Silva off they would not likely be looking at reclamation projects which are generally back up.
I don’t think Silva is Cy Young, but I also don’t think he is a piece of crap anymore than I think the Cubs should dump Z to save salary.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
But the Cubs weren't ONLY interested in Webb, DS.
They were interested in Webb AND Garza. And if Wood signs, it means Cashner is ticketed for the rotation.
Silva makes 10 starts at most for the 2011 Cubs. And I think the team is planning for that.
I don’t think Silva is a ‘piece of crap.’ I think he is an overweight pitcher with an extensive injury history who has heart problems.
Wait, couldn't that work?
Its a little unorthodox but that would be a way for the Cubs to afford him and Wood to get his money by the end of his money.
I don't see how backloading helps. It's only a two-year deal.
So you’d pay him something like $8 million in 2012 to be an 8th-inning reliever?
I could only see the Cubs signing him if his price comes down to more like $4 M a year, but I don’t think it’s going to.
No one should be untouchable on this roster unless his name is Eliot Ness...or Starlin Castro.
Agreed.
Unless he wants the Konerko type of contract that pays him $1 million for the next 6 years.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Which could happen, given his statement that he's making his permanent home in Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I suppose I would be okay with that.
So his contract would like something like?
$3 million 2011
$3 million 2012
$1 million 2013-18
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
its completely unreasonable for the Cubs
to put $6 million into Kerry Wood each of the next two years
I’d love Wood here, but only on the premise that he’s taking a discount to come back home. If that’s not his prerogative (which is fine), he’s an unnecessary piece for a Cubs team that is unlikely to contend
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
And, as much as I would like Kerry around...
…IMO it is even more unreasonable to backload the contract, even at two years.
If they did something like 4/8… then the Cubs would be paying $8M for a set-up guy in 2011. That doesn’t make much sense, given the state of the club.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
$8 Million Over Two Years
I like Kerry Wood and believe that would be a fair contract, but $12 million over 2 years is simply too much.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Having him retire as a Cub is worth something to me, too.
Though that’s silly. I think 2/7 with some incentives bringing it to 2/9 for performance is reasonable.
Yeah, it should probably be worth something to Woody, too.
His post-baseball career options might be better here in the area where he’s most recognizable.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Which is why some kind of longer-term deal might be a good idea.
Wood will be 36 in 2013. He might be ready to retire by then — maybe some kind of personal services deal with the organization past his playing days?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah, something along those lines.
Or even if Kerry is just considering some kind of business venture here in the Chicago area — finishing things out with the Cubs could be valuable from a marketing perspective.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I think the Rangers or Angels would pay that
but don’t see Woody doing the La-La thing. Texas is more a possibility.
Rays need bullpen help but I think this is a bit pricey for them. Besides, Wood isn’t a sure-thing to be an effective closer again.
If he drops his price AND wants to go for the ring… he could stay right where he’s at (Yankees), or hop the train and go to Philly. He wouldn’t have to worry about being overused there…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
would it be possible
to give him a 10 year 20 million contract? $4 mil for the first two, $3 for the next 2, $2 for the next two and then $500K for the remaining 4 under the assumption that he would basically become the bullpen coach and just be on the 60 day DL
this way he makes about the same amount he will for the remainder of his career, Chicago becomes his permanent home and worst case scenario he becomes an overpaid bp coach
Wait, wait.
You want to give a reliever in his 30s a contract for THAT long?
Hans, dude, that’s a TERRIBLE idea. Like Aaron Miles/John Grabow terrible.
Even with a low dollar value, and even if he spent four years on the DL and as the bullpen coach, Wood would get a longer-term contract than any Cub other than Alfonso Soriano EVER HAS.
I love Kerry Wood. But no GM would ever consider doing this.
I pray hansman was being sarcastic.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Going strictly by WAR...
…two years, $12 million is too much. (Fangraphs currently estimates 1 WAR is worth around $5 million) Woody would have to repeat his ‘08 season (2.2 WAR) to get even close to that. If he’s willing to take a hometown discount, how ‘bout a two-year deal at $4 million per? I think that’s about as high as Hendry should go, which is a shame because, I must admit, after seeing Woody at Santo’s funeral, I kinda wanted him back on the team for sentimental reasons, too. It’s looking more likely he goes back to the Yankees — setting up the possibility that he and Prior could be teammates once again.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
On Rosenthal's Kosuke comment & the 4 OF approach.
All I’ve pointed out is that, even if you don’t really use a “rotation”, it just isn’t that hard to find plenty of ABs for four OFs.
Even if Sori, Byrd, & Colvin are the designated starters, as Rosenthal points out, Sori & Byrd surely need time off. It is really easy to find 350-400 ABs for a 4th OF, which could be Kosuke (with Colvin sliding around the OF).
Shut up Joe Morgan.
If all four guys are on the roster in four months ...
I think you’re idea has merit. Hell, it might be possible that Kosuke has a good first half and can be traded as a three-month rental to a contender.
My only concern is that the Cubs become wedded to such a system at the detriment of Tyler Colvin, who might be a building block for the future. But if Colvin can get enough outfield starts (and maybe the occasional start at first base), this shouldn’t be a problem.
True that....
about Fukudome being possible trade deadline bait, depending on his first half performance. So far, he’s been a first half player anyway. As I recall, he had a pretty good first couple of months last year. Not like ‘08, but respectable. Also, the fact that he can play right AND center (never have seen him play left), gives Quade the opportunity to rest Colvin and Byrd. Although sitting Colvin against a left would be counter-productive given Kosuke’s success rate against lefties. Sitting Byrd and playing Kosuke against a righty would be an easy call. Same with sitting Soriano against a righty….Kosuke plays right, Colvin moves to left. I could see this happening. Still, if they had a chance to move Fukudome’s contract, they should do it. If he’s healthy, though, I want Colvin starting a minimum of 140 games, unless he completely tanks.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
I am sure Jim will get this done!
I know we already have Grabow down there, but adding Wood can only help!
Maybe I'm sipping coffee spiked with blue Kool-Aid this morning....
but one question about Grabow. When he came over from Pittsburgh with Gorzellany in ‘09, as I recall, he was pretty good for the rest of that year. So much so that I remember discussing him last offseason as one of the few stable pieces of an uncertain bullpen for 2010. We all know how that turned out. My question is, given that he supposedly was injured for a good part of last year, and knowing how middle relievers often alternate between good years and bad years (remember Bob Howry and Scott Eyre? Or Paul Assenmacher? Bob Scanlan? Ken Patterson? Joe Borowski? And the list goes on.) is is possible that maybe Grabow comes back as an effective part of the bullpen next year? Or am I insane? We’re already on the hook for about $5M owed him in 2011, might as well give him the ball in Spring Training and see what he’s got.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Grabow will need to have...
…the best season of his career to produce enough value to justify his $4.8 million salary. (Again, a WAR-based evaluation.) But he’d been pretty durable up until last season. So if he can give the team 50-60 innings at around his career numbers, he may not be so bad. As you say, it’s not like the Cubs have much choice.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
There's no way Grabow can justify his salary.
However, I happen to think there’s little reason to believe he can’t be a useful (albeit expensive) middle reliever if he is healthy, which he clearly wasn’t last year.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
Well, he could do it...
…if he gets incredibly lucky and puts together a 1 WAR season — something he’s never done in his career. But, yeah, it’s really unlikely. If he’s healthy, though, he should be able to at least eat up a lot of middle innings.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
I guess my definition of "useful" is broader.
It seems to me there are a bunch of useful middle relievers who are ok pitchers with low WAR.
He put up ERA+ of 149 (‘08) and 128 (’09) recently. I think of that as pretty useful.
And baseball reference has him with a 1.9 WAR in ’08 and 1.0 in in ’09 (adding the two stops).
To be clear, his contract is gross and he sucked out loud last year. But he was an easily above average middle reliever in the two previous years. So, IMO, if he’s healthy, there’s no reason he couldn’t post an ERA+ of 100 (average) and a WAR of 0.5 or so.
Shut up Joe Morgan.
I'll bet that woody gets
2 years at 5 per. I think he takes that slight discount to play here. All Woody should have to do is take Hendry out to Olive Garden and the deal should be sealed. Not a great deal, but one I think we all could live with. Especially if we can dump Fuke’s contract.
by renocubfan on Dec 15, 2010 11:19 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Is there a certain date we will stop talking about players that aren't on our team?
I mean, front page crap about Harden? Prior? Wood? People need to learn to let go, Jesus H. Christ.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2010 11:42 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Oh, there's a certain date alright.
And it’s — * checks the BCB sidebar * — 107 days, 0 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds away (as of this writing).
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
What front page crap about Wood?
This is a fanshot — and one that directly applies to the Cubs offseason.
Sorry, el...
I was just agreeing about the part on “letting go” of the former players. This teams focus is obviously on the future. There’s nothing in the past (Wood) that should be brought along. He didn’t fit a few years ago and they let him walk. Let him keep walking. Articles on former players are fine. Articles on bringing back former players make no sense. Nostalgia won’t win this team anything.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
So the Cubs should never bring back players who have left the team?
What about Greg Maddux? Was it a mistake to bring him back?
I don’t want to overpay for Wood. But if he provides a discount and he’s willing to set up for Marmol, he makes sense.
To disregard that simply because he is a former Cub makes no sense to me.
Why would he provide a discount?
Maybe because he’s a forrner player? It’s all nostalgic, el. Once a Cub always a Cub? What makes him better now, then when they told him to take a walk a few years ago? Him being a one inning set-up man? He was a one inning closer before he left, right? I liked Wood as a Cub. I also liked Sosa, Prior, Grace and many others that were let go. As far as Maddux. I didn’t agree with that acquisition then, but, Greg Maddux pretty much earned everything and anything he wanted through a long and magnificent career. As far as Wood…he was hurt alot with the Cubs…ALOT. Why go down that road again? I wonder if it weren’t for that 20K game, if he would still be as beloved around here as he is to this day? It seems that most miss Kerry Wood as a Cub. $3M a year for 2 years…$6M total. Let’s see how bad Wood misses the Cubs. Anything more is ridiculous
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
He MIGHT provide a discount because he lives in Chicago.
That’s far from a certainty, and I don’t want to sign Kerry to 2 years, $12 million.
Anyway, it’s not that he’s better now than he was two years ago. It’s that he’s now a setup guy who’s more affordable. He might be too expensive, but we know with a lot of certainty that he won’t get 2 years, $20 million (what the Indians paid two years ago).
I think you’re too ready to discount former Cubs just because they were former Cubs. Greg Maddux was a good addition seven years ago. I’m amazed you were against that.
If you’re concerned that Wood will be too expensive/too injured, I understand. But don’t write off former Cubs just because they’re former Cubs. You’ll notice that no one was suggesting we sign Prior or Harden or even really Derrek Lee.
The idea to re-sign Kerry isn’t about nostalgia — other than the fact the we hope Kerry’s nostalgia will mean a discount. If not, let him walk.
Right.
If a similar pitcher would be useful to the Cubs, I’d be advocating signing him if his name wasn’t Kerry Wood.
Wood also provides clubhouse leadership. That does have value. It’s one of the reasons the Cubs brought back Bob Howry last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Are you sure he lives here?
I know his wife is from here but I was pretty sure they live in either Texas or AZ in the off season.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 6:46 PM CST up reply actions
It does appear he lives in AZ in the off season
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
The ultimate irony is that Z is the only current Cub
that I know of who more or less lives in Chicago in the off season. His kids go to school full time in Chicago and he was at the Northwestern game last month. I imagine he goes home for a long winer break, but I am pretty sure he lives the majority of the off season in Chicago. He definately did last year. Dempster lived in Chicago last year partly for his daughter’s medical needs. He has since moved to AZ in the off season.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
That is incorrect.
Kerry Wood and his wife are currently living in Chicago and plan to make their permanent home there. I cannot reveal here how I know this, but it is 100% true.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This is actually in the ESPN article just up.
It says they just sold the house in AZ to move back to Chicago.
Honestly if this goes through I am betting Sarah Wood is the force behind it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry but for that money I would rather have Balfour
I absolutely love Kerry Wood but let’s be realistic. He just has not been that good for the last
3 years. He had a terrific end of season but that is an awful lot of money to base on a brief
peroid of being very good.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 12:08 PM CST reply actions
Last three years?
He was pretty damn good in 2008.
I know you probably just got the timeline wrong. But saying he hasn’t been good for three years, except for the end of 2010, is a lot more of an indictment than saying he hasn’t been that good for two years, except for the end of 2010.
He was good in 2008
And DL free for all of 2009. Not sure 12 million is worth it either but it’s not as risky of a deal if this were a few years back.
2 years
4MIL in 2011 & 8MIL in 2012. I’d be upset over this signing if Wood wasn’t one of my all time favorite players.
We’ve spent 12Million a lot worse over the years.
Only after other monies are freed up
to pursue other players too.
Wonder if this would have a negative affect on Marmol in that he’d be looking over his shoulder knowing Woody’s history.
Just win the next game...!
No.
Because I think Mike Quade would take charge and let Marmol know his job is not in jeopardy — and further, Wood isn’t that kind of guy either, another reason his clubhouse leadership would be useful.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I hope that's the case with "Q2"
I also don’t believe Woody is that kind of guy, but just his presence (and other ex-closers) I’ve thought previously could make Marmol become unglued. Hopefully the young man has the mind over matter.
Just win the next game...!
All I want for Christmas is
for Kerry Wood to be a Cub again. Please get ’er done Jim!
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
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