Cubs Sign Kerry Wood To One Year, $1.5 Million Contract
by Al Yellon on Dec 16, 2010 4:24 PM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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UPDATE from last night's post, via tweet from Chris DeLuca:
Kerry Wood signs one-year, $1.5 M deal with Cubs.
Chris De Luca
ChrisDeLuca
Now, here's the rest of last night's post. I'll have more later:
This just in -- literally. I had written a long post based on this FanShot regarding Kerry Wood to the White Sox rumors -- which turned out to be false -- when I found this post by David Kaplan on ChicagoNow, indicating that the Cubs are "close" to a deal to bring back the big righthander:
The Cubs, who have a major need for a veteran right handed reliever are moving towards finalizing a deal with free agent Kerry Wood. Wood, who spent the first 10 years of his major league career with the Cubs spent 2010 with the Cleveland Indians and New York Yankees and compiled impressive numbers down the stretch for New York as the Yankees qualified for the post season.
This is outstanding news. Yes, I know Wood has had injury problems -- but once his back trouble last year was cleared up and he was dealt to the Yankees, who fixed some mechanical problems, he was nearly lights-out. He has had no recurrence of the elbow trouble which kept him out for most of two years with the Cubs in 2006 and 2007. He's a great clubhouse guy and will, presuming this deal is finalized, provide another setup option along with Sean Marshall, for Carlos Marmol as closer. This also may provide the Cubs the opportunity to try Andrew Cashner in the rotation -- as many of you have suggested.
Presuming this is true: Welcome home, Kerry Wood. You're back where you belong.
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Tryin to take my comments from me, huh Al?!?!??!?!
I ❤ Wood -
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Welcome Back
If this signing happens, then welcome home Kerry! His presence in the clubhouse may be more important than his presence on the field.
by MissouriKev on Dec 15, 2010 10:53 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Absolutely.
There is value in clubhouse leadership, and Wood definitely provides that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I hope they can cring back
Derosa as well. It is great to follow a team that has no direction or plan! Let’s just woryy about selling tickets instead putting a winning team on the field. What a joke!
by cubdreamer on Dec 16, 2010 8:34 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
It's not just about selling tickets.
One of the problems last year’s team had was a bullpen blowing games. Wood was lights-out setting up for the Yankees. There’s value in that, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What about when he
spends a month on the DL which is basically a yearly occurrence. I think Kerry is a great guy but this team is not going to win for a couple of years. If the plan is to sign Kerry and trade Marmol to help build for the future then I am all for it. Al, you said it yourself that they should sell out the convention once the signing is announced.
I think signing Kerry ...
might actually be a move looking toward the future. Instead of trading three prospects (McNutt, Lee, etc.) for Garza and his $3-$5 million, the Cubs sign Wood (presumably for that kind of money), move Cashner to the rotation and keep their young prospects.
It’s possible that none of the prospects will pan out, and we’ll regret not trading for Garza. But if you want to roll the dice on them — which is a big part of a rebuilding process — then this makes some sense.
Particularly if Tampa’s asking price for Garza went up after Lee went to the Phillies.
If the Cubs could acquire Garza
without adding Cashner, Jackson or (goes without saying,) Castro, I think they should trade for Garza. He’s a legitimate #2 in the NL.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think we'll ever know what he would have cost us.
But signing Wood (even at $3 million per) would seem to mean the Cubs can’t afford Garza in 2011.
Per below reports said
the Rays would want Jackson, Archer and Lee. Too much for me
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
Castro and Jackson should be untouchable unless we are talking Fielder or a TOR starter.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
No freaking way
I’m assuming that’s Brett Jackson and not Jay. So they want our top two prospects and another top five prospect for Matt Garza? Matt Garza? The same one who struck out 6.6 batters per nine last season?
Garza is a solid #3 pitcher, but c’mon. That’s the type of offer you hesitate to make for Adrian Gonzalez. No way you give that up for the next Steve Trachsel.
by Josh Timmers on Dec 16, 2010 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
Trachsel is a little harsh for comparison
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 17, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions
actually no it isnt harsh, its reality
as i have posted more than once on this blog, showing that he matches with him and Marquis per baseball reference
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Why
would the Cubs trade someone like Marmol who is cost-controlled? Wood is not really a great closer, but if he retains his bullpen form he would make a good setup man. Marmol is one of the few homegrown pieces of this team that has for the most part panned out. You’ve lost me with your logic dreamer.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
The reason you trade him now
is because his trade value will never be any higher tan it is currently. They are not going to be winning a World Series over the next couple of years, his echanics are bad and is an arm injury waiting to happen. They could get a boat load for him which in turn would expediate the rebuilding process.
OK then...
Can you give us a plausible definition of “boatload” to further the discussion?
Interested teams, names, things like that?
2 to 3 top prospects or major
league ready talent from an organization.
Could the Cubs get Jesus Montero...
…from the Yankees for Carlos Marmol?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
no shot
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
I've heard the same thing.
Not about his hitting, but his catching ability. He’s probably going to wind up as a left fielder or first baseman.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he's a DH
who hits like Miguel Cabrera
he’s not overrated, he’s just not a catcher
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I haven't heard from anyone that Montero is anything but a potentially elite bat
I am also pretty sure that Grinch has not personally scouted Montero. I guess it’s not totally fair to say that you can’t have an opinion on a prospect (for example I think Hak-Ju Lee is overrated), but that comment seemed pretty misinformed.
by JSB on Dec 16, 2010 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not an answer.
Interested teams, names, things like that?
…was what I asked.
2 to 3 top prospects or major league ready talent from an organization.
…provides neither.
Trades are not abstractions, there are two or more parties involved and specifics required. If you’re so certain trading Marmol to (who?) is a viable option, then surely you must have some clear notion of the valuable return we’ll be seeing.
Try again.
I'm not saying I think trading Marmol is a great idea , but he would be a good fit for Tampa
who can’t add payroll and needs to replace their closer, I don’t know how much team control the Cubs have left with Marmol, but Tampa has a lot of prospects…as well as Matt Garza that would be a good fit
I'm sure that Hendry would get great prospects in return.
NOT.
Absolutely no confidence there.
Besides, there’s absolutely no reason to trade him. Wood, Marmol, and Marshall make a very intimidating back end of the bullpen.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
I won't add to the comments below
Simply because the argument is very valid – like many Cubs players we as fans tend to overvalue them. However, I always find it interesting when fans complain about a pitchers mechanics. Really worked out great with Prior didn’t it? I’m not saying that mechanics should not be looked at – but there are many pitchers with longeveity over the years that had “bad mechanics”. I’m a runner so I hear this argument from my running buddies too from time to time, but you know what ruining your knees has more to do with genetics than mechanics. I would venture a guess that in pitching this is true as well.
"Ask Dad. He'll know. And on the off chance he doesn't, he'll make something up"
Are you kidding?
That towel drill is going to revive 2003 Mark Prior in NY!!!
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
That has been thoroughtly debunked
It was Prior’s drill, not Rothschild’s.
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
Ok...here's a question about that philosophy...
if a team isn’t projected to win a World Series for a few years, and they trade off a few of their better players because their trade value is at its peak because of it…how does said team EVER get good enough to win a World Series?
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
Pre-cisely
That is why the goal should be to win every year. Every single year.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
One thing I've noticed for a while now
Is a lot of fans selling the cubs short. All of sudden, this team can’t win, can’t contend, has no talent, should trade just about everybody they have. Winning a title is as much as believing in yourselves as having the talent. Ask the marlins, or Giants or Rays about contending and winning. The cubs have the capability and talent to win, it’s a question of do they have the mental aptitude and fortitude to do so. Bringing someone like Kerry Wood back goes a long way towards doing that.
the same Giants
who have a two time Cy Young winner? The same Rays who have, or had, an all-star at every position?
point being this team is incredibly mismanaged, especially given their payroll and sizeable fan base
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Steven- great tag-line!
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
It is both
They need a reliever at a reasonable price and they also need some good PR. This signing brings both. Don’t kid yourself that brand management isn’t part of this equation.
Just win the next game...!
Yeah, look what happened after he left.
Great move there.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Jim Hendry was just tyring to help Kerry get a bigger contract!!! He is his buddy!!!
Then we used the money to get the AMAZING Kevin Gregg!!!!!!
Jim is an amazing GM!!!!
TJ11- gonna be busy next few days...
I just wanted to wish you Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be safe. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) :]
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
I had a feeling this might happen
After watching Wood at Santo’s funeral, taking into account his affinity for the city anyway, it occurred to me that Wood just might have decided Chicago was the place he had to be. I hope this is a done deal.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'm fine with signing Kerry
as long as he stays in the clubhouse. The last two games I attended at Wrigley were botched saves by Wood. In both loses he hit the first batter followed by a string of walks. It was infuriating watching him piss away otherwise outstanding games.
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
So based on two games the Cubs shouldn't sign him?
Marmol blew a couple of saves last year. Guess we should get rid of him, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Seriously?
Because he only has like 5 blown saves that resulted in losses as a Cub, total.
And he only hit a batter in 2 of them.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
And in the first one, he pitched 2 innings, left with the game tied, and the Cubs lost 4 innings later.
And in neither game was there more than one walk in addition to the hit batter.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Wood also blew a couple of saves...
…pitching against the Cubs as an Indian, IIRC. So it all kinda evens out, y’know?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
You're right, we probably don't need him.
It’s ok to have Marmol blow out his arm finishing every game that we have a tie or the lead because there’s no one else that is trustworthy to do it. It’s ok to have him save 4 games in a row because there’s no back-up or solid set up man.
Stop it already. The guy shouldn’t have been let go in the first place. It sure was worth it though to sign Milton Bradley!
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
don't let facts get in the way
Marshall is capable of closing on occasion. Saying we should have kept wood is just wrong, he was ineffective, injured, and expensive in his time in cleveland. The fact that the money saved on wood was spent on bradley doesn’t mean that it would’ve been better spent retaining wood. It wasn’t either/or. Don’t let one month with the yankees block your view of 2 years of ineffectiveness with the indians.
by neifiisgreat on Dec 17, 2010 6:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
did you not catch any Cub games from last year?
Our bullpen could not hold a 7th or 8th inning lead to save its life. To imply Wood is going to make things worse is ridiculous. Good luck finding alternatives in the current free agent market. Wood can be a valuable contributor, he is a tremendous asset in the clubhouse and someone who cares a great deal for the team, fans and city. He isn’t a 2 ERA guy, and that is not what is expected of him.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
Wood should wear #10
I think Santo would approve, if he hits enough home runs.
by WelcomeToTheFukudome on Dec 15, 2010 10:54 PM CST reply actions
I think seeing him in #34 again will be enough for me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll be able to wear my Wood jersey again!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you'll always have permission to wear your Wood jersey.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
As will I.
That was the first game jersey I ever bought.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
get the #10 patch
For your wood jersey. That’s what ill do
by 300LevelBleacherBum on Dec 16, 2010 9:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is going be huge for all the young guys that the Cubs have.
A true presence in the clubhouse, along with Marlon, and Demp. This is great
by braziliancubsfan on Dec 15, 2010 10:54 PM CST reply actions
Yeah, we'll actually have leadership again.
Absent since Wood and DeRosa left.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
ARam and Soriano and Z have been excellent role models!!!!!!
Their hustle and behavior on the field have been first rate!
by TJ11 on Dec 16, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh man...the Grinch and TJ are tag-teaming now.
This could be a long day.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
part of me says i like this...
Another part says “meh”
I like kw…just want to move forward as a franchise, new players, new attitudes…
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 15, 2010 10:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I want to win.
If Kerry Wood can help the Cubs win, why do we need “new players”?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Are you drunk or stupid?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 15, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Are you saying
That if Kerry Wood can perform at the level he did when he was with the Yankees that he won’t help the Cubs win?
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 16, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
No, I'm saying Kerry Wood performing at the level he did when he was with the Yankees won't make the difference...
between 4th place and 3rd place….which is where we’re probably going to be.
WAKE THE HELL UP….THIS TEAM IS GOING TO BE A METRIC ASSLOAD OF “MEH” NEXT YEAR.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hmm, probably.
But which team is going to run away with the division? Until someone convinces me there is an overall favorite in the division, I’m keeping a little hope alive.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
OK,that's your opinion....but please don't tell me your pinning your hopes on the right arm of a setup bullpen arm....
Wood is coming back to sell some tickets….if he can contribute to some wins…all the better.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
Clearly I'm not.
But I will argue that Wood’s presence on the roster provides a lot more than merely a setup bullpen arm.
We do agree he’s being brought back to sell tickets and keep the peace between fans and management.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
the Reds
finished 16 games ahead of us, have the core of their team entering/in their prime years (Phillips, Votto, Cueto, Volquez) OR are young players likely to take steps forward (Bruce, Chapman, Leake), and have a system ready to contribute
I think its unfair to suggest the Cubs are within striking distance of the Reds right now. Unless everything goes right for the Cubs and a lot of things go wrong for the Reds, they’re going to likely finish well ahead of us
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
dusty baker
10 times in 17 years his teams have finished 1st or 2nd in their division
he’s taken 3 different teams to the playoffs
look i dont think managers make much of a difference at all, so i’m not saying Baker is a difference maker, but to suggest he’s the primary point of failure for organizations is completely inconsistent with his performance track record
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
right...
and jim riggleman is to blame for Strasburg too?
pitchers aren’t meant to do what they do, their arms break. Did Dusty’s “abuse” play some role in that? Probably. Do we know for certain what that role is? No, not even close
Again throwing ALL the blame on Dusty is being absurdly biased and ignorant of the actual results on the field. The teams he’s managed have all won
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Dusty
He’s great at getting players to give their best for him He’s awful at managing pitchers.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
You're might be right
But whether or not Wood has been brought back to sell tickets I still think he makes this team better. Me being the optimistic person I am, I’m not going to give up on a team we haven’t even seen play a game. Sure there are a lot of what ifs but there’s no reason for us not to be excited right now.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Optimism is all fine and good.
But we saw this team play last year. This is pretty much the same team as last year now with Pena and Wood—who will probably not make much of a difference. The other moves Hendry makes will be small hole-fillers.
Let’s not pretend like this is an entirely different team.
You'll have to pardon some of us
We like have the games played, see what happens, and go from there.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
It's not an "entirely" different team
but this team did finish second in the NL in quality starts.
Plus, full years of Castro, Colvin and Cashner. Maybe 75% of a season from Aramis.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Is that what the platinum medallions they got at the end of the season say on them?
“2nd Place in NL Quality Starts – 2010”
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
As a matter of fact they did.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
and they looked really cool!
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
I know you always have to play the games and see what happens.
I don’t disagree with that. But if we are trying to analyze the team before the season starts I think you have to look at what you’ve got.
It’s unrealistic to expect this team to contend. They might be better than last year, but I’m not so sure. For one, the rotation concerns me. With Dempster aging, there isn’t one guy in there who you can really depend on in there. Lilly was that kind of pitcher to have last year. I don’t think the rotation will be bad, but it won’t be a “contending rotation.”
My main concern is the offense. The team last year seemed like they could hardly put up 3 runs a game last year. Hopefully the addition of Pena pays off, but I don’t think he will be that much better than last year. Hopefully Ramirez plays for his contract, but I still expect him and Soto to miss a third of the season. Castro is the one bright spot in the offense. Other than these guys, there is not a whole lot there. This team is going to have trouble putting up runs again.
Personally, I want to see success in this team—I just don’t think I’m going to see it.
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I always expect them to contend. Always.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Excuse me?
I’m someone who’s been rooting for them likely longer than you’ve been alive, not that it matters. We all have different perspectives. I allow you yours, you can damn well allow me and others ours.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
How am I not allowing your perspective?
I don’t care if you are optimistic—that’s perfectly acceptable.
But your response really doesn’t lend itself to reasonable discussion. It doesn’t answer to a single one of my points.
Sorry you are so angry.
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Calm down, tiger
I’m not angry. I’d respond to reasonable points, but your post was all negative supposition. Expecting Ramirez and Soto to miss a third of the season, bagging on the rotation as unreliable- how else does one respond to guesses like that on your part other than to say I prefer to remain optimistic?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Maybe by saying something like:
Zambrano can be under control the entire season like he was at the end of last year.
Dempster can return to 2008 form.
Wells can return to 2009 form.
Silva can lose weight and perform well all season.
And Ramirez and Soto can be healthy all year even though they haven’t been the past two seasons.
If you can say all that, maybe you have a +.500 team.
But I don’t think you can.
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll sum it up
I prefer to remain optimistic. That’s less typing.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
and thinking
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Sez you
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
yep
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Then it's settled
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
So basically...
….. you’re saying if theycan return to 2008 form, then they’re a .500 team. I’ll take the 2008 form. That team finished in first.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Don't let the barbarians get you down, bc
I’m sure they all picked the Giants and Rangers in the World Series, after all.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Believe me, I'm not
Although it is fun to push buttons.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
If you can name one way in which the
Cubs compare to the Giants or the Rangers, or if you can name a single way in which they can be considered a “dark horse,” I will join your guys’ side.
That's not really apples to apples.
The Giants were LOADED with young pitching, and several experts did project them to be very good in 2010. That rotation and some key scrap-heap pickups led the Giants to the WS. The Cubs don’t have that kind of young, promising rotation. Not now, anyway.
The Rangers also had more of a young core in place to start 2010 than the Cubs will have to start 2011. The Rangers also had the financial flexibility to acquire Cliff Lee mid year.
You’re resorting to the “baseball’s a funny game/you never know” argument. That’s all well and good, but when that’s all you have, you don’t have a lot of hope.
by elgato on Dec 16, 2010 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actuallly
Quite a few experts picked the Giants to go to the World Series last year, and many predicted the Rangers to win their division.
Uh, not really addressing the argument
That’s not hindsight. That’s called paying attention.
It was obvious to anyone paying attention that the Rangers and Giants had a ton of young talent that had a lot of potential.
11 “experts” picked the Rangers to win the West and 7 predicted the Giants to make the playoffs. I doubt anyone picks the Cubs this year.
The Cubs don’t really have the ingredients of a darkhorse.
by JSB on Dec 16, 2010 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Again
I don’t think too many people were picking either one to be in the WS.
And all the “experts” thought the Cubs would win the Central in 2009. How did that work out?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
Come'on
Just because the experts don’t always get it right doesn’t mean that there isn’t wisdom in assessing the community’s view of a team.
Sure, it’s not impossible that the Cubs somehow catch lightning in a bottle, it just isn’t likely. And it is far less likely than it was for the Rangers or Giants to make the World Series. I don’t really see how you can be optimistic about next season. The Cubs offense is probably going to be atrocious.
by JSB on Dec 16, 2010 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
First of all,
the final roster isn’t set.
Secondly, no games have been played, far as I can tell.
I’m not saying it’s going to be seashells and balloons. But you don’t know it’s going to be a crap sandwich, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
we do have an entirely different manager
who did pretty well after being put in charge
by hansman1982 on Dec 16, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Am I mistaken
or did the Cubs have the best record in all of baseball from the time Quade took over until the end of the season? Why again can’t they compete? They did that without DLee as well.
Entirely different? Not at all.
But there are some reasons to predict a decent team. Pena will be better than Lee, Wood will improve the pen, Ramirez will be playing for a contract and Zambrano looks like he might have finally matured. We also have a manager who isn’t worn out.
This is not a world-beater team. But I expect a better record than last season.
YES! .500 BASEBALL IS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!!!!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Occasionally, it'd be nice if you toned down the snark.
I’m not thrilled at the state of things. I’m not expecting a division title or a playoff appearance.
But this team will be better than it was for most of 2010. That’s all I said. I’m not jumping up and down about it.
by elgato on Dec 16, 2010 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry Uncle Elgato.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Finally...
…someone else “gets it”. By reading all these comments you’d think we signed Pujols or Mauer or someone who’ll make a difference. It’s a relief pitcher. A guy who’ll throw no more than 5 or 6 innings a week.
He’ll sell tickets. He’ll take the heat off management. That’s the plan. They know what they’re doing. If it’s more than $3M a year for 2 years, then someone needs to seriously think about a career change.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
by Easy Ed on Dec 16, 2010 2:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The dollars and years
certainly has a big impact on the value of this deal. MLBTR said he was looking for 2 years and 12M, which is way too much. I’d agree with the 3M a year being reasonable. Frankly, with Wood’s injury history and poor performance in Cleveland, this could turn into Grabow 2.0. I hope he is healthy and productive, but his track record in the last 3 years doesn’t indicate that.
by neifiisgreat on Dec 16, 2010 5:37 AM CST up reply actions
2 years and 12M would be ridiculous.
You know Wood is going to spend half the year on the DL.
No we don't
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
OK?
Well he hasn’t been healthy for an entire season since 2003, so…
If I knew what the future held
I’d be in Vegas right now. Every year is a new year.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Kerry Wood will have 2 DL stints this year
The first being blister related.
The second being arm related.
Take that to Vegas.
When was the last time he was on the DL for arm issues?
Hasn’t he mostly had back and blister issues of late?
The beginning of this last season apparently.
I don’t follow the Indians too much.
Oh, my mistake.
Didn’t think he had an arm injury in Cleveland.
Give me a grand and I'll go
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I prefer to invest my money in
people who use their brains?
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And you're calling ME angry?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'm in Vegas!!!
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Half was an exaggeration.
But Wood spends a “good deal of time” on the DL each year.
He can still be a quality set-up man, but 2 years 12 million would be absurd especially considering his health.
I think that would be too much, too.
I’m hoping 2 years, $9 million, with Kerry willing to give the Cubs a discount.
1 assload = .276 Arsecram
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
by eths on Dec 16, 2010 6:01 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd.
If he was named anything other than Kerry Wood, people wouldn’t be 1/10th as excited. This does very, VERY little in achieving the ultimate goal. But it makes nostalgic fans happy and want to come back to Wrigley to see Woody pitch again. That makes the clueless people in charge happy.
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
RH set-up is one of the biggest black holes on this team
Kerry Wood is one of the top RH setup men available. It’s not about being clueless and nostalgic – it’s about recognizing that this signing makes the team better.
Now, no one is disputing that this Cubs team is probably a long way from contention, and this signing won’t change that.
But it’s silly to rag on positive moves because they don’t move the needle enough to blast the team into contender status – just as it’s equally silly to defend negative moves (such as, for instance, tendering Koyie Hill) because “the team wasn’t going to contend anyway.” Moves can, and must, be examined and criticized on their own merits.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 16, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
...
Now, no one is disputing that this Cubs team is probably a long way from contention, and this signing won’t change that.
Then why spend millions on a reliever if we’re a ‘long way from contention’. And you even acknowledge that this won’t change that. This is just the Cubs being afraid to totally admit that the roster’s core is done. Right now is one of the times when being a big market club actually hurts us: Most teams in similar situations would be full-on rebuilding (trading anyone with value for minor league talent, shedding salary, etc). The DeRosa trade was sneakily one of Hendry’s better moves, and yet people still pine for us to bring him back. The Cubs can’t ‘afford’ to wave the white towel before the season starts. Therefore, we spend money on free agents that, in all likeliness, won’t make us contenders.
In all honesty, I don’t really expect things to get better until Crane, Hendry and their cohorts are gone.
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
I certainly agree with some of this.
I disagree with the idea that signing Kerry Wood is in any way mutually exclusive with rebuilding. The team can be expected to finish around .500 next year, and could potentially be somewhat better. They definitely have some money to make some moves on the margins. I don’t think that we have, essentially, ANY tradeable veterans that would bring a bounty in prospects. We’re in a tough spot in that regard.
I agree that the roster’s core is more or less done. I don’t see any impact acquisitions left, really, after we failed to get Gonzalez. I also agree that it’s unlikely to get much better until Crane & Hendry are gone.
I disagree regarding the DeRosa trade, obviously. 2009 was a time to go all-out with a closing window to compete. While nothing has come of it yet, Archer may be a good MLB pitcher, and Hendry and/or his team deserves credit for identifying him and acquiring him. But it was at the cost of the last core’s leader, and the team reacted badly. They should have acquired their prospects in a different way.
Presuming Wood gets a reasonable deal, the only thing that happened here is “the team acquired one of the top RH setup men on the market.” It would typically not be a big deal. It obviously gets more press b/c the player has been a popular Cub for most of his career.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
the problem w the derosa
trade is who we replaced him with. The cubs identified a player they werent going to resign and cash in at maximum value. A very uncub like move. The deal in itself would have been great had the cubs replaced him with anyone who was not actually terrible at baseball. Rembember this lead to the aaron miles signing.
I've just added "METRIC ASSLOAD OF 'MEH'"
…to my list of awesome band names.
what was wrong with Wood's attitude?
We’ve been ‘moving forward’ for 101 years with new players, hardly a magic formula. It’s almost like Tommy Lee Jones has come by with his Men in Black wand and erased your memories of how our bullpen performed last year. Here is a reminder:
WALK
WALK
HIT
WARNING TRACK OUT
WILD PITCH
HOME RUN
by BeltwayCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome Home Woody!
After losing my favorite Cub of all time (RIP Santo) it feels really good knowing another of my favorites is returning to the North Side.. I just hope this won’t tie up the money needed to get another quality starter
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Really?
We NEED him? I’d say we need more productive offensive players more than we need another bullpen arm. I’m a fan of Kerry too, but saying we need him is a stretch in my opinion.
by neifiisgreat on Dec 16, 2010 5:38 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Especially ...
if Cashner is ticketed to the rotation. And I think that’s what happens now.
DUDE!
We’re gettin’ the BAND back together!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
We're on a mission from god, after all
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Yeah, but did you see Blues Brothers 2000?
It wasn’t good.
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2010 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Corey Patterson and Felix Pie too!
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
And-to-night
we’re gonna party like it’s two-thou-sand-and-eight!
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2011!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 15, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome home, Kerry
Reading this just made me so happy. If it doesn’t happen then I’m going to be upset. But gosh this would just be so awesome. It needs to happen. Kid K is and forever will be a Cub.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
by mikegncb34 on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hope this is true
We definitely need and want Woody. He’s been missed and doesn’t belong anywhere else but the Cubs!
My love for Kerry is unreasonable.
It’s hard for me to even attempt to be objective in being glad to hear he’s coming home.
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Dec 15, 2010 10:59 PM CST reply actions
Pretty much how I felt about Maddux.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
+11111111
He is the modern day Ernie Banks. Totally loyal to the Cubs. And I’m totally loyal to him.
Welcome back, Kerry. I missed you.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 16, 2010 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+34
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
Based on the comments above...
… I think I know who will get the loudest ovation at the Cubs Convention introductions next month.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This just inspired me to skip all my Friday classes on April 1 and come to Opening Day
for the first time.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
Still isn't sold out, is it?
I think it will now
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Here's an interesting experiment.
I just called up some convention passes online. They are sold by sequence number: the current number is 2537. They’re selling slowly, maybe 100 or so a week.
Assuming this signing is officially announced tomorrow, take a look at this time tomorrow night and see how many passes they sell in one day.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This would definately help sell it out
but as of now Kaplan is the only guy reporting it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
True.
Generally, though, when something like this goes to that level, it probably will happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Also it is on the front page of Trib web site
I doubt they want that much egg on their faces.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
Dewey Defeats Truman
Well, we can only hope that the Tribune has learned something about reporting since 1948.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Touche
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Al...
….you know for a while now I’ve been saying they should introduce him as a “secret signing” at the opening ceremonies of the Cubs Convention. Although I think my idea would have been awesome, I’ll take this news anyway I can get it!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
As noted below...
… this ought to sell some convention passes, if it turns out to be true.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Just this morning I got an email about "special" offer to purchase passes.
Wonder if it’s all related?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I wouldn't be surprised if the light fixtures explode from the ovation.
It’ll be almost as loud as the booing that Hendry got at the 2009 Convention after he got rid of Wood, DeRosa, and Edmonds so that he could have Milton Bradley, Joey Gathright, and Kevin Gregg.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Better be careful. I am pretty sure there a bunch of chandeliers
in that main room. As a precaution they might want to take them down for cleaning.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
Gotta give Cash a shot at the rotation now.
Marshall, Wood (hopefully) and Marmol now in the ’pen…just made the Cubs a lot better if we can close this deal.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
I've had his good bye ad hanging up on my wall.
Now to decide if i take it down since there is no reason to say good bye anymore.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
I think you are jumping the gun on this
but I know how happy you will be if it happens. I will be too, but I try not to think about it
until it does.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:05 PM CST reply actions
The headline does say "about to sign".
… at least until they do, then I’ll change it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Rule 34: If Kerry Wood exists, he is a Cub.
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2010!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 15, 2010 11:06 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
Great sentence! :]
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
as long as it isnt for a lot of money
im cool with it
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Dec 15, 2010 11:09 PM CST reply actions
Any word on the details of the deal?
I hope this is at the right price…
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
No confirmation nor details yet.
It’s late. If any info comes out tonight, post it here. Otherwise I’ll get to it tomorrow.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If somehow this doesn't happen, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.
Not in you of course.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Something tells me you will be up all night
I actually got physically ill the day before Maddux was going to make his decision in 04. It did not help that ESPN erroneously reported he would sign with THE YANKEES the night before.
I stayed at my office till 10 when the Atlanta Journal reported he was coming back to the Cubs. I knew the writer knew Maddux and I knew it was true.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Ah, how fitting
Signs found everywhere.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
Let's post our favorite pictures of Kerry.
I’ll start, let the man crush begin!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
red X/weird white pic
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on Dec 15, 2010 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm that's not suppose to happen, huh?
Let’s try again.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 15, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
:D
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!!!
GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on Dec 15, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
That was his reply to the White Sox offer
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
by Cubbiegoon on Dec 15, 2010 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I really admire that about Kerry how it's pretty clear he didn't want to be on the South Side
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
Well yes, but I find it hard to believe they were way up on his list
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
I was at that game.
In the patio, Kerry Wood came up to me through the fence from the bullpen and signed my hat.
by china423 on Dec 16, 2010 7:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mine
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
by mikegncb34 on Dec 15, 2010 11:16 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Or this one...Ronnie would have loved having him back.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
by mikegncb34 on Dec 15, 2010 11:17 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Was just about to post this one
Ronnie and Wood go hand in hand to me they are my favorites and signify what it means to be a Cub IMO.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 15, 2010 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely agree.
Having Wood back will help out the younger pitchers as well. This is a no-brainer to me…close this one out, Mr. Hendry.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
Do you know if anyone ever found the picture of Ron and Kerry celebrating in the locker room in 2007? I’d like to have that picture.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 15, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking that exact same thing.
I will give you this link to an ’07 tribute though, which has them celebrating at the end and Ronnie actually kisses Wood on the cheek, haha. Maybe get a screen shot of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kWmUCDXjZA
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
I know :(
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
by mikegncb34 on Dec 15, 2010 11:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But it still gave me chills
And man, was that a fun year. And so was the next.
I’ve honestly never had so much fun as a baseball fan than during those two years, despite the heartbreak at the end.
"A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores." Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger
totally agree, such a heartbreaker in 2007
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
by VegasCubFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:14 PM CST up reply actions
Bob Howry got a save in the middle of that video.
I thought those went extinct about the same time as the woolly mammoth?
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 16, 2010 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Rosenthal says it's real!!!!!!!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Alright now seriously if this doesn't happen then it's just mean.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
I'm so happy
I might just stay in this thread all night because i’m pretty sure my friends are sick of my maniac like texts I’ve been sending the passed 30 minutes.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 15, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have mixed emotions on this...
Have we ever really got a good bang for our buck with the oft-injured Kerry Wood??
Thank-you, finally someone with an intact memory
I'm wet nurse to a (5th)-place, dead-to-the-neck-up ball club, and I'm choking to death!
Sorry but this really isn't about memory or logic
There is no question if his name where Joe Smith with the same stats & background the Cubs would not be signing him, but I really don’t care. I don’t care if Ricketts told Hendry go sign Wood so we can sell some tickets because the team is going to suck next year. For most Cub fans of this generation he is probably the most beloved player. Sometimes it is about more than stats.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You just stole the words out of my mouth
Thanks Doggie :)
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 15, 2010 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, the Lakers just traded for Joe Smith
For Mr. Maria Sharapova, er, Sasha Vujacic.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
In all honesty...
If it was just about stats, I wouldn’t be a Cubs fan. I’d root for the Yankees. If you want stats, root for the Yankees.
Maybe that’s what’s wrong with the franchise. We’re in love with the Cubs and their fans, and we stick together regardless of the stats. It makes us unique, I think, in sports history. We have a shared history of heartache. We don’t love the pain, but we love the idea of never giving up, and we love the ballplayers who catch on to what we’re all about. Kerry Wood understands, God Bless Him. Ronnie understood.
And here’s at least one song that sums it all up for us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqHTScDBsDU
Go Cubs!
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 16, 2010 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
Actually, yes.
He did very well in 2008 as Cubs closer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But we needed Kevin Gregg more in 2009!
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Wood Needs to Get His Walks Down
I was amazed that he only averaged 2.4 walks per 9 innings in 2008 as the Cubs closer. I believe it’s unreasonable to think he’ll get his walks down that much in 2011, but I hope he can get down to 4.0 walks per 9 innings next season.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
He was a good middle reliever, though - which is what I'm hoping he will be in 2011.
I’d also say that Kerry probably earned his $8MM in 2004, when he threw 140 innings of 3.72 ball, striking out over a batter an inning, while getting almost no run support.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I agree.
But it’s hard to point to 2007 as a year where Kerry earned his money.
he was only paid 1.7 million and posted a .3 WAR
if 1 war was worth $4-4.5 million then he was pretty close to earning his keep
I'm starting to dig this team.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
I read on here that someone posted
that if this deal gets done then they won’t have much left for Garza so they will push for Webb.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
Much left in terms on money?
Ricketts can surely find the money. He’ll only cost $5-7 million in ’11.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
What if we find somewhere for Fukudome?
Will this free up enough room to go and make the trade for Garza?
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 15, 2010 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
Well reports were the Rays wanted
Archer, B Jackson and Lee. Not sure it would be worth it.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2010 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
that's a little too optimistic haha!!!
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Dec 16, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Take us back to the playoffs, Kerry...
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2011!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 15, 2010 11:26 PM CST reply actions
what you dont see is
the ball boy to his right with the lighter…that is lighter fluid in his left hand…
Hell yes
Hey maybe the house hasn’t sold and the McCourt’s need to dump salary FAST.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions
They just re-signed him
and IIRC it’s 3 years at over $10M per… Too rich for the current Cubs’ blood unless they move similar monies to cover.
Just win the next game...!
We were just dreaming
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
If they sign Wood
I hope it’s not for nostalgia. That would be so, so Cub.
Don’t expect much from him. If he can be a help to the set-up part of the bullpen, great.
All in all, this is good. If he sucks, I hope people are as quick to judge him as they are Grabow, et al.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 15, 2010 11:27 PM CST reply actions
Not sure how this would be "so so Cub."
DeRo, see ya buddy. Wood, I hear Cleveland is nice. Theriot, DLee, Lilly, it’s been real.
My point is that the Cubs have hardly been making personnel decisions of late based off of nostalgia.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Other than bringing back Koyie Hill....yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
The whole Hill thing is blown out of proportion in my opinion.
Are people that concerned about a backup catcher?
Here is what I ask of a backup catcher. Can they call a good game? Can they play average defense? If they contribute a few hits now and again, that’s a bonus.
Who were people expecting our backup to be?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Wellington....because Soto has had injury problems and whoever our backup catcher is...
is going to play more than most teams backup catcher. Now consider what will happen if Soto does get hurt or misses significant time…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
I suppose.
But is Wellington going to make that much of a difference over Hill? I seriously doubt it. It goes to your point above, the Cubs have much bigger problems than one reliever or backup catcher.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Some people think
you have to have a backup as good as your starter.
That isn’t realistic.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Thank you.
These are the same people that bitch about Hank White making too much money. You can’t have it both ways.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Who is saying that?
Wellington is making less $ than Hill.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
The point is...
…when you pay you back up to be as good as your starting catcher, people bitch. When you have Koyie Hill back there, people bitch. In the end, they are a back up catcher for god sakes.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'm not saying to sign a veteran and pay them 3 million dollars to be a backup catcher...
I’m saying don’t f’ing give Hill $700K to take up a roster spot and pretend to be a ML catcher when you have better, cheaper guys who can do it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree it's too much for Hill.
In fact, there are far too many MLB players that get paid too much. But that’s the age we live in. Hill is a guy that we know that can call a game, handle a veteran staff, and play average defense. Wellington would have made what…$400k? Is $300k really that much to get upset about? Are you seriously convinced that Wellington was that much better?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
No, it's not really the $ at all....
it’s the fact that he takes up a roster spot, keeps Wellington for getting ML experience….because right now Wellington isn’t really any better overall than Hill, but he’s younger and has more upside and could…could possibly develop into a useful player…or even a trade-able commodity. It goes to the root problem of roster management with this team.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:37 AM CST up reply actions
Fine.
I’ll accept your argument, even though I don’t agree with you. My premise still stands, the role of backup catcher is being severely overrated. The type of backlash seen at the Hill signing is silly.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Generally...yes I agree...backup catcher don't mean squat...
but in the specific instance of the current Chicago Cubs….the backup catcher could be more important than most other ML teams….remember that 3rd base problem we had when Aramis got hurt?…..yeah, Aaron Miles was great.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Fine...enjoy 2011...let's revisit this conversation at the break and again in September...
deal?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
What are we going to revisit?
The fact that the backup catcher meant next to nothing to final result? Sure, let’s revisit.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Why wait that long?
Look at his -0.7 WAR last year and see that a replacement player (cough Castillo or Chrinos cough) would have been worth about a win more. Plus as SWL says, he’s younger and could theoretically have value and maybe even prove to be more than a replacement player.
Geo Soto didn’t look like very much until he was given his shot either.
Welington Needs to Play Regularly
I’m not the greatest Koyie Hill fan, but Castillo won’t be benefited by sitting on the bench in Chicago, when he could be playing almost every day in Iowa. Hopefully, Soto will stay healthy and catch 130 games next season, so Hill won’t have to play too much.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
That would be best....I would make the Beef-Davis trade today.
Beef is never going to play here. Quade has something against him already.
You do recall Soto being incredibly unheralded until he had a single good year in AAA
and a good September with the big league club right? People left and right throwing PED accusations at him for being able to hit 23 HR in his rookie season? Him not hitting more than 9 before his final year in the minors?
Chrinos and Castillo both have roughly the same track record as Soto did when he got called up. Odds are neither of them will be as good as player as Soto, but at least there’s a chance. With Hill, you know exactly what you’re getting. A below average backup catcher making more than the minimum who is blocking some younger talent that could make an impact.
Nice guy, though.
Thanks for making me defend Hill.
I feel dirty now. This feels like Jason Marquis all over again.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
The Blanco contract was one of the worst ever.
He may be the first, and last, $3M backup catcher.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Some people think being a backup catcher shouldn't be an excuse for not being able to hit a baseball.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
Hold on....have you actually LOOKED at Koyie Hill's offensive numbers?
There’s “backup catcher bad”….and then there’s Hill.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
So a bad backup catchers hitting...
…versus a average backup catchers hitting is going to mean a hill of beans in the long run?
What’s most important is that persons ability to call a game and play defense.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
It's going to mean about a win in Hill's case.
He managed a negative .7 WAR last year in relatively limited action. That’s an achievement.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Here's the funny thing...
it’s really really REALLY hard to tell how much of a difference Wellington would make…since he never got to play on an even semi regular basis last year when the team was OBVIOUSLY out of the race…Hill just kept getting the starts.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
Um....really? NBF seems to take offense to anyone pointing out that with Hill on this team...
the catcher position is Soto and black hole.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
Fine.
I know people don’t like NBF. Let’s call him NPH, does that help?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
No, I just think people
getting their knickers in a twist about a backup catcher – any backup catcher – is beyond ridiculous.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
FTFY
No you HATE Hill Sandberg.
It has been decided.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
That's the point people are making, yes.
However, as well as Castillo has hit in the minor leagues, we do not know if he could do that in the major leagues. Plus, it is well known that pitchers like throwing to Hill and the way he handles defense. That does have value.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Also, in 2009 Hill hit well enough to be a decent backup.
I wouldn’t expect he would get as much playing time in 2011 as he got in either 2009 or 2010.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly
No less than Randy Hundley and Gary Hughes have said Hill is much more valuable than any stat will show. They both emphasize his ability to “manage” while on the field and his handling of pitchers.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
So they would have been WORSE than the 23-34 in the games Hill played in?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
This is where player development...
…may clash with managerial preference. I can completely see the logic in playing Castillo over Hill, but I have a funny feeling that Quade may value Hill for his handling/familiarity with the pitching staff, clubhouse presence and overall approach to the game. I know, I know…he can’t hit. But this would explain why the team is keeping Hill around — at least for the time being.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
This would have made a glimmer of sense...
if the team had any realistic chance of making the playoffs last year. They didn’t. Yet Lou and Quade kept choosing Hill over Wellington…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Evidentally, the team didn't feel...
…Castillo was ready for anything more than a September callup. He should’ve played more from that point on, but I choose not to get too upset about it.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Then that tells me Chirnos and every other catcher in the systen was not ready either.
If not they could have been called up instead. Also tells me our depth at C in the system is not what its cracked up to be.
Right.
They may have made the judgment that Hill is better suited to be the team’s backup than anyone in the organization.
Many here disagree. People here complain all the time about Jim Hendry overrating our prospects, but I think many here do the same thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wouldn't Castillo having to learn the pitchers while the team was hot play into this?
You got a catcher just called up, would have to learn the pitchers and gain their trust. Also, Hill seemed to already have that and the team was playing well. Why risk more losses with a team really trying to push closer to .500?
because more losses didn't mean anything...other than a higher draft position.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 1:15 PM CST up reply actions
For the fans that don't pay attention to the team as much as people here.
Wouldn’t you think they would be more inclined to come to more games the following season thinking that they could turn it around easier from a 75 win team vs a 65 win team. Not saying if Castillo played that it would have been 65 wins. But Hill did play when the team was hot at the end of the year.
Far too much angst
about a backup catcher.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:14 AM CST up reply actions
The angst is mostly over the habitual use of useless players...regardless of position.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
That's the crux.
It IS about the position. Back up catchers mean almost nothing to a teams success.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Yeah, only in the games where they have to play baseball...
which with this team….might be alot.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
For our back up catcher the passed few years it has mattered though, as mentioned by SWL above Soto has been known to get injured and miss quite a bit of time.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 16, 2010 12:23 AM CST up reply actions
If Soto gets seriously hurt...
…go sign someone else. Until then, it’s not a priority.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Jim Hendry would most certainly get a winner....a cheap one too.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
Koyie Hill played over 80 games in 2009...
and 77 in 2010….you don’t think he might come close to that again in 2011 do you? Let’s hope not.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
Okay fine.
Would have a better backup catcher made a difference in ’09 and ’10? We both know the answer is NO.
If we are relying on the backup catcher in ’11, we are in for a world of trouble.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Dude...regardless of who the backup is in '11...
they’re in a world of trouble.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
No one player typically makes "the difference".
That’s a false argument. You can’t defend bad personnel decisions by saying that it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the season. It’s still a bad decision.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No one player typically makes the difference?
Albert Pujols would like a word with you. The point is, certain players make a difference, some more than others. But backup catchers DO. NOT. MAKE. A. DIFFERENCE.
Hendry overspent $300k. Continue to worry about that, while I’ll continue to worry about more important holes on this team.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 16, 2010 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd.
The angst spilled on this site over Koyie Hill is way over the top.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes it is.
I think he’s become the “in” person to hate since Theriot is no longer around.
We're out of glue.
by katie casey on Dec 16, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Or Neifi or Macias or.........
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Cedeno
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2011!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 16, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
It ain't Hill's fault
I’d sign toofor 700K if they offered
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
its over the top
because its seen as a symbol for the ineffectiveness of this regime
and those that defend the move or suggest it doesn’t matter much are in a way defending all the past small mistakes that have been made and continue to be made.
its a suggestion that throwing away $500k to have a worse player isn’t a big deal, and throwing away $7 million on a replacement level reliever isn’t a big deal, and so on and so on
the point is all those small mistakes add up over time and they’re part of the problem for payroll inflexibility.
Certainly the bigger swings and misses (Soriano, Bradley) have hurt more and everyone would agree to that, but the small mistakes shouldn’t be overlooked
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
If one is intent on criticizing..
…. I suppose that’s true.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
i dont think its "intent on criticizing"
i think its analysis, which is often what people use message boards for
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by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
And believe it or not
reasonable minds can differ, no?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
sure
usually those that differ in an argument are expected to provide evidence though to support their position
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I base mine
on the evaulations of Hundley and Hughes
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
ok
so then your evidence is whatever the cubs think, i think
just respond with that as your reason for differing opinions
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh for heaven's sake
I’m basing it on two people whose knowledge of catching dwarfs the cumulative knowledge of it of everyone on this site.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
In all fairness...
…Albert Pujols is the exception to the rule. He is not the rule. And even his might hasn’t guaranteed the Cards a playoff spot every season.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Really?
Because I could think of 20 players that make “the difference” right now.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
really? Then you are lying, or don't understand baseball.
There is no one player who would have put the Cubs over the top last year. Or, in all likelihood, this year.
A roster is 25 men. And ours is several short of being a contender.
Albert Pujols couldn’t push the 2010 Cardinals – an objectively better team than the Cubs – over the top. I think that pretty conclusively disproves your “point” that any 1 of “20 players” could, if added to the Cubs, could make the difference between missing and making the playoffs.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Wait.
What “difference” are we talking about here? If we’re talking “could make the team better” then…well, yeah. But if you’re talking “could push the team into being a bona fide contender” then…well, no.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
The "difference" is changing the outcome of the season. Making v. missing the playoffs.
That’s exactly what I wrote, and what Cubswynn responded to.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
He overspent $300K last year. We'll see about this year.
And this is a ridiculous post. You’re arguing, basically, that roster decisions on the margins are irrelevant, and should be immune from criticism and/or undeserving of praise.
I utterly reject that premise. It is illogical and stupid.
Do you think that I don’t realize that some decisions are more impactful than others? Of course I do. Do you really think that I’m equating Albert Pujols with Koyie Hill? Of course not.
And here’s a mindblower for you – last year, despite being totally awesome, ALBERT PUJOLS COULD NOT MAKE THE DIFFERENCE FOR THE CARDINALS. They still missed the playoffs — in part b/c those decisions on the margins of their roster were screwed up.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
It may be illogical and stupid to you...
…but clearly there are many people that disagree with you.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I don't think you even understand your own argument here.
And no, I see the usual group of sychophants who reflexively support everything the Cubs do and pat each other’s posts on the back.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 16, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what's annoying?
Trying to read this thread, any thread, and having it jump all over because somebody keep posting little one liners. Just sayin’…..
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
by BeerCub on Dec 16, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No TJ how about NO POSTS from you
.. Except on gamethreads when the Cubs are being shellacked, so we can get stellar analyses from your baseball acumen.
That would be swell.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
like this?
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Dec 16, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
This was eventually shown to be a myth.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
No, that Hill played...
…an inordinate amount of time for a backup catcher — in 2010.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
That was a small sample...
…at the very end of the season. I would’ve preferred Castillo play more, too. But, overall, Soto played about as much as you’d want a starter to play.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
OK, now that I look...
…I see Castillo was called up on Aug. 11. But, again, I choose not to drive myself crazy about this issue.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Explain.
Koyie had 234 AB last year, and started 60 games. Those are big, big numbers for a backup.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I don't have time to track down the link at the moment.
But someone on Fangraphs broke it down and showed Soto got around 70-75% of the playing time, which was purported to be about what a team should expect from a starting catcher.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Here's fangraphs saying exactly the opposite.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/piniella-loses-his-marbles/
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
LOL...fangraphs is "beyond ridiculous" for thinking a backup catcher matters.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
That was posted on June 17.
There was another article posted later — toward the end of the season — that either mentioned what I’m referring to or had a comment that referred to it.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Wait, wait.
Here we go. I’m referring to the comment by one “Poodski” that states:
People act as though Soto never starts. He has started 74.2% of the games he has been on the roster. Thats a fine number to me. I don’t particularly want my starting catcher playing more than that anyhow.
Now that I read it again, he appears to be referring to Soto’s career playing time, not just 2010. So maybe I’m overstating things a bit.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Again...
…not trying to argue for Koyie Hill, just that maybe Hill hasn’t gotten quite as much playing time as everyone seems to think.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
The point being
The Cubs have to have Johnny Bench as their starting catcher and Carlton Fisk as the backup. Just like they needed Mike Schmidt as their starting third baseman and Brooks Robinson as his understudy.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
When it comes to third ...
there have been times when the Cubs didn’t HAVE an understudy.
They had one
Just not as good as the starter. Like every other team in MLB.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
Who was the third-base backup in 2009?
I think you know that’s what I’m referring to.
Depending on who you talk to
it was Miles or Fontenot.
As good as Ramirez? Of course not. Then again, no backup was going to be as good as him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Bruce.
Fontenot had not played a game at third in the majors. And Miles had barely played the position.
Of course the backup won’t be as good as Ramirez. But we didn’t even have a backup who could credibly play the position.
Don't even try to use logic with him...he's right and we're wrong.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Going into 2009
Fontenot had zero career appearances at 3B.
Miles had something like 10. And was widely reported to be unable to make the throws from 3B, which turned out to be true.
The point isn’t that the backup has to be as good as the starter – it’s that the backup should exist.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Hyperbole Alert!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely no one is saying that.
People are saying that backup catcher is a good place to save money, especially when your starter is good, your million-dollar backup is very, very bad, and you have 2 acceptable options to work for the league minimum.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
No, you're all saying exactly that
And the waste of energy about this subject is typical.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
and like a troll...you're right there arguing the counterpoint with us.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
It's not my fault
you’re consistently stupid.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
hmmm....this is where you shine.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Sometimes
The truth is so obvious and apparent that you can’t ignore it.
In a way, this is pretty cool, because this ridiculous back-and-forth makes it feel like we’re right in the thick of the season. On a snowy day in December, that’s all right.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
those “acceptable options” aren’t as acceptable as you think.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Aren't you the person saying backup catcher doesn't matter?
How unacceptable can they possibly be?
Could they potentially be worse than Hill was in 2010?
I seriously doubt that.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I didn't realize
Hill was the antichrist.
I wonder if any other franchise in MLB has as much anal-retentive angst about backup catchers as, apparently, many Cubs fans do.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Since all of us aren't as brillant as you deem yourself...
probably not.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
A strawman AND circular argument in the same post!
The “antichrist”, well, no. The worst catcher in MLB in 2010? Probably.
Do you realize that you are simultaneously arguing that backup catchers are not worth this “anal-retentive angst” …. and arguing that the Cubs cannot afford to put their relatively heralded prospects in the backup catcher position?
Which is it, NBF?
Is backup catcher SO IMPORTANT that a $1MM mediocrity must remain in place, lest we use an “unacceptable option” like Castillo?
….or SO IRRELEVANT that its’ not even worth discussing, because the backup catcher doesn’t affect the team?
You can’t have both.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
The king of the strawman argument
dares to point a finger? He who sets up his own little scenarios and replies in a condescending manner?
I’m not necessarily arguing in favor of Hill or anybody else. Perhaps there are reasons other than batting average that warrant him being on the roster. I don’t recall Henry Blanco being all that robst in BA for most of his career in Chicago, but he certainly was loved by many here for his “intangibles.”
The false choice you set up in your premise is ridiculous. You’d be a great politician.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
This is really running off the rails.
Can’t we all just get along?
The truth is revealed
elgato is Rodney King. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
My two bits on this
Why is so difficult to understand that what would it have hurt when Soto went down to give Wellington 2 to 3 starts a week.
1. To see what he has
2. Maybe improve his trade value.
3. Hey, what a freaking novel idea: He may turn out that he can handle a staff and hit over .200 then the other freaking backup catcher.
4. I understand it is a backup catcher, but is wrong in having a GOOD one, not a automatic out.
You got my cheese whiz boy?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Major +1
I don’t understand how people are defending the use of Hill. Even if he was to be our backup catcher, he should have been nontendered and signed to a deal for less than he’s going to be making in arbitration this year.
Even if it is the least important roster spot on the team, it is indicative of greater failings of the Cubs organization.
Koyie Hill is...
…about as much as an automatic out as there is, or ever was, in baseball. Bat him 8th on the days Soto needs off, or is hurt, and you got 7 or 8 automatic outs per game between him and the pitcher. That’s quite a hole at the bottom of the line-up, ya think? Signing this guy AGAIN speaks volumes on what management thinks the Cubs chances are in ’11. Hill should be selling cars or parking cars.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
Not if the pitcher is Z
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
They may have brought Hill back out of stupidity
but certainly not nostalgia.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
the difference between kerry and grabow
is kerry has actually been legitimately good in his career
grabow has been legitimately average and looked good because of good fortune and relievers behind him bailing him out
people were quick to judge grabow because the history suggested he had little chance at being anything other than average and was being paid as if he were great
kerry at least has a demonstrated history of above average when healthy. All his issues have been health related
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions
Kerry Wood is #1 among active pitchers in K/IP. He's 2nd in the history of the game, behind Randy Johnson.
…and just ahead of Pedro Martinez, Nolan Ryan, and Trevor Hoffman.
If he can keep striking out hitters, he’s going to do fine in a setup role – especially b/c he’s occasonally going to be called into inherited runner situations where a strikeout would provide the only positive outcome.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 16, 2010 9:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, right
What do you want, Kevin Gregg back? Wood shouldn’t have left in the first place.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Championship!
"He's a great candidate," Ryan said. "If I hadn't made him drop in coverage so often on running backs, he might be the all-time sack leader. They call it zone blitzing nowadays. We called it, 'Richard, pick him up.'" - Buddy Ryan on Richard Dent's HOF chances.
welcome home kerry
If this happens, by far the best news of the offseason!
You ARE freaking out MAN!
by crw89 on Dec 15, 2010 11:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I just wished the Cubs had a decent second baseman.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
I'm still hoping
for a Gorz – Sizemore trade
2011 can't get here soon enough.
by Castro Por Presidente on Dec 15, 2010 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Anybody want Eckstein, Hudson, Kennedy?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
Sure....
Not sure if the Cubs any money, though
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Trade Fukudome and some money opens up
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Dec 15, 2010 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
I hear the Cubs want to pay half of Dome's contract....
not sure if other teams will bite at that. If the Cubs eat 3/4 of his $14 mil contract, they still save 4.67 mil. We can get a 1 year contract for one of those guys with that money.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
too bad hes going to ask for the most out of those three
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Dec 15, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
This year is the concern.
Next year a boatload comes off. Hendry could make it work, if Ricketts okays it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I bet Quade can't wait to lead him off again with his stellar OBP!
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Uggla would have been better, but Hudson won't cost that much....
I am sure Jim will get it done!!!!
We got Wood ???
If we do it is the best Cubs related news I have heard in awhile . Classy guy and a team player . Yes my Wood jersey is ready to go come April .
FWIW...
…I find it hilarious ESPN doesn’t have this signing on the main page. If Wood has resigned with the Yankees, it would be a HUGE deal!!!!!!!!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Maybe once it's official
Something will be up there.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
by All The Way on Dec 16, 2010 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
would you expect it if he signed with the astros?
the yankees get a lot of media coverage also because they’re good and these signings matter in the scheme of things for good teams
the cubs won 75 games last year, the story has media value because its sentimental not because it strengthens the Cubs as contenders. A signing like this by the yankees would strengthen them as contenders and have more “baseball value” as a story
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions
my $.02
We still have a roster of Ramirez, Sori, Byrd, Pena, Castro, Soto,Colvin…guys that are proven hitters, but have had down years (referring to veterans). Lets say the Cubs sign Wood. The pitching is a little sketchy now, but I believe his presence can help the younger guys AND help keep Z under control. If his signing helps Z win a few more games and also helps the younger kids then I’m all for this. We all know that the new ownership is cutting budget. But hey, maybe some of these veterans (and young kids) will rebound with a big year AND have Kerry Wood to help mentor the guys that need to limit runs? With a budget next to nothing, you couldn’t ask for a better signing as far as chemistry goes.
The workings of Ron Santo.
I’m thinking somewhere up above Ronnie is putting in some words for our Cubs to help assemble the team that finally does it… eventually. Starting with bringing back Kerry Wood. Welcome back Kerry!
Jack Brickhouse: "Hey! Hey!"
Harry Caray: "Holy Cow!"
Vince Lloyd: "The Chicago Cubs are on the Air!"
Len Casper: "Oh Baby!"
Bob Brenly: "Give it to a Kid!"
Ron Santo: "YES!", "All Right!, let's do it!", "Oh No!", "Oh jeez come on!" AND...
"This Is The Year!"
by #1 iowan cubs fan on Dec 16, 2010 1:23 AM CST reply actions
I sure as hell hope he finishes his career here.
And in the process, gets another ring so he can auction the other one off that has a logo from the dark side on it for JDRF or something.
my mistake.
i thought he was on the yankees in ’09 for some reason. fail. but still, this man needs a ring. If Santo or Mr. Cub or Fergie or Ryno couldnt get it for this team, it should be Wood.
All of a sudden, I feel a lot more optimistic about 2011... Welcome back Kerry!
If the Cubs still have a chance, no matter how small, it’s still Go Cubs, damn the math and pass the KoolAid.
We need this.
I hope this works out. It’s obvious that Kerry can benefit this team in several different ways. However, after the horrible season, the end of the Lou saga, Ryno leaving, and then the sad passing of Ron Santo… I believe us Cubs fans really need something to stir up some positive emotions. Kerry Wood, coming back home, will do that!
I can picture Wood and Hendry, talking sometime soon after Santo’s funeral… and just everything clicking. Who knows.
2011… maybe it will be a family thing that puts this team together?
Here’s hoping!
I approve of this.
If Carlos Pena can get $10MM, I frankly don’t care what they sign Wood for. Just bring him back.
"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin
Surfs up Woodie!
Feeling warmer already…
There are 108 beads in a Catholic rosary and there are 108 stitches in a baseball. Who says baseball isn't a religion?
Baseball is a wacky sport...
It’s all about which team can pull it together over a 162 game season. The Cubs always seem to have at least one part of the ship break down.
They win 97 games in the regular season, then fall asleep in the playoffs.
The offense is playing well, but the bullpen falls apart (cough, cough, Kevin Gregg)
Silva starts 10-0, but the offense is nowhere to be found (cough, cough, Lee, Rami)
If Kerry Wood can get the ball to Marmol with no incident, we’ll win a few games next year. If the starting pitching is solid, we’ll win a few more ballgames. And if the offense can be more productive, we’ll win quite a few more ballgames. Let’s see what happens. Happy to see Woody back, let’s get to Spring Training already…
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Wood
Obviously I am very happy about this. I actually have tears in my eyes.
I give this extra cred coming from Kap as Kap and Kerry are very close friends.
I only wish Ron Santo had known this. He was probably closer to Kerry than he was to any Cub in his broadcasting years with the team.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
who knows what Ronny knew .. maybe he did know something
and of course said nothing .. I can see him now going “YESS!”
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2010 7:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Never wanted him gone to begin with ..
He had been coming around and had stayed relatively healthy when the Cubs gave him the right foot of fellowship. I don’t see mawkish sentimentality in that move. Me and the whole Cubs fan family clan here would be glad to see him coming back if true .. and every pic posted here is a favorite one.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
This is so cool.
Kerry Wood is the reason I’m a cubs fan, I’ll be going to wrigley to see my first game next year. Here’s hoping i get to see Kerry in action!
by English Cub Fan on Dec 16, 2010 7:30 AM CST reply actions
I don't know
how much difference this will make in the win/loss total of the team, but I’m very excited about this. Since Dawson left Wood has been my favorite player to watch. He’ll probably retire here now.
And as a bonus, my autographed Wood jersey just became relevant again.
DEJESUS!!!
Came here to say this.
+1
Late in the season, in the midst of an inning and it’s just past the top of the hour so Pat mentions that we’re due for a station break. Ron kinda mumbles "Didn’t we just have one of those?" and without missing a beat Pat says "About an hour ago."
by Champaign Cubbies on Dec 16, 2010 8:16 AM CST reply actions
Has anybody seen terms yet?
I am very happy about this in a vacuum. But I really, really, really hope the Cubs didn’t have to pay him $12 million for 2 years.
I'm hoping nostalgia -- from Kerry -- gives us a hometown discount.
Fingers crossed.
Unless it's a %50 off discount, el...
it’s highway robbery. And if Hendry gives him $12M for 2 years, then it should be the last move that man should be allowed to make, and he should start cleaning out his desk…immediately…if not sooner.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
Let's reserve judgment until we see the terms.
I don’t know about a 50 percent discount. But 2 years, $12 million is too much in my book.
It's WAY too much...
…if this DOES happen, and being that Wood loves Chicago, I’m betting there’s a NTC thrown in just for chits and giggles.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
I'm telling you, Ed ...
you ought to reserve judgment.
My mistake. White Sox didn't necessarily offer him that much.
The article said Wood was seeking 2 years at 12 million.
i'm happy Kerry is back
from a sentimental standpoint and if the dollars/years are reasonable then it makes some mild baseball sense
if the dollars/years are unreasonable, specifically backloading heavily into the 2012 payroll which in my mind is more impt than the 2011 payroll, i’d be a bit more frustrated. On the whole though i’m happy KW is back and that happiness will overwhelm the mild frustration associated with it likely being another poor allocation of limited resources
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 8:30 AM CST reply actions
My guess?
The Cubs found out that they couldn’t get Garza — probably because the Rays wanted too much after Lee went to Philadelphia. The Cubs decided to move Cashner to the rotation, possibly take a flyer on Webb, and spend the money that WOULD have gone to Garza on Wood.
If this is accurate — and, if the money for Kerry isn’t crazy — then signing Wood rather than acquiring Garza actually helps the team long term. Instead of trading three young pitchers for Garza (and paying him $3-5 million this season) they pay Wood that money, promote Cashner and hang on to the prospects.
Rotation is Z, Dempster, Wells, Gorzo, Cashner (not bad at all), bullpen is Marmol, Wood, Marshall, Grabow, Russell, Shark and another (Silva, I guess).
fair assumptions
though all of those decisions can be made independently without a kerry wood signing.
The Cubs can decide the price is too high on Garza and that Cashner’s arm is too valuable to not at least try him in the rotation without signing wood
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, absolutely.
But if you take Cashner out of the bullpen, somebody has to be the right-handed setup guy for Marmol. Wood fits the bill, but the Cubs could have signed somebody else.
the idea that we need a RH setup man is also WAY overblown
Marshall gets out RH’s, it doesn’t matter that he’s LH
he’s elite
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Well, we need somebody else in the pen.
Especially if Cashner is headed to the rotation. Otherwise, we’re gonna have Daycare Bullpen Part 2.
generally
if you have your top 2 in the pen set and then are relying on the rest from the mish-mash of internal, scrap-heap FA pickups, etc i think you’re ok. Most bullpens are built that way.
Personally, i think Jay Jackson, Thomas Diamond or Chris Carpenter could be fine bullpen arms this year. Grabow should rebound to being replacement level again. I think we have enough quantity to figure it out, but some of it is dependent on being willing to sort it out internally
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
I'd take some quality arms.
I’m still amazed at how many people expected Caridad, Berg, Russell and Shark to all ascend in a Marmol fashion.
I dunno if I wanted Caridad to ascend
I thought he was doing fine where he was, till he blew out his arm.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
I know you get off on annoying people, but it doesn’t work with me. If Caridad had stayed healthy, it would have been one more piece in place, that’s all. He was a pretty good middle reliever. Hopefully he can be again.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
A 'pretty good middle reliever'?
Based on what, Drew? Less than 20 innings of big-league work?
Granted, Caridad getting hurt destroyed his value. But it was a huge mistake to make him the primary setup guy (from the right side) to Marmol going into the year.
As I said (repeatedly) last spring, Marmol didn’t make it to the big leagues for good until May 2007, and even then, there were several guys in front of him in the pen.
In other words, the Cubs counted on Caridad et. al to make a Marmol-esque jump in a HIGHER-pressure role. Even when Marmol became a bullpen fixture, he was still the third right-handed option in 2007, behind Howry (who was still effective) and Dempster.
I don’t think that’s the case at all — the Cubs simply wanted Caridad to keep on doing what he was doing. No, he didn’t have a lot of innings. Relief pitchers don’t.
17 Ks in 19.1 IP isn’t nothing. But then he got hurt. We’ve no idea how he might have done.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
What don't you think was the case at all?
Caridad was CLEARLY the primary right-handed setup guy to Marmol after Guzman got hurt.
ok.
and I now realize that I’ve been confusing Caridad with Guzman, My point, however, is that Guzman pitched pretty well.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
Also ...
Guzman became the primary setup guy in 2009 after Marmol replaced Gregg as closer IN AUGUST. Guzman was really good in 2009, but he — like Marmol in 2007 — didn’t have to be an eighth-inning guy right out of the shoot.
Caridad, on the other hand …
the difference being
last yr we were relying on journeyman minor league RELIEF pitchers to fill in the bullpen roles at the major league level
this yr we would be relying on former top STARTING pitching prospects to fill those roles. I have more confidence in guys with swing and miss stuff as starters (Carpenter, Diamond) than i did in the cast last yr
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if the distinction matter, DCF.
In both cases, we would be counting on career (essentially) minor leaguers to fill some key bullpen spots.
I don’t have a problem with a team paying a decent amount for three good relievers.
difference of opinion
i believe the relief market is the least efficient area to spend in free agency
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
least efficient
because its the most unpredictable and the dollars:actual value relationship is atrocious
the 2011 relief market is certainly proving that
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you here.
It never works out to throw money at middle relief. But if you are going to do so I would at least throw that money at somebody with a good track record in terms of health. A pitcher like Sean Marshall would be a safe investment. But there are not many like him.
I understand that.
It’s also why I’ve been saying all day that I hope the Cubs get (or got) a good discount on Wood. Also, getting Kerry does make it much easier to make Cashner a starter, which means that there are Cubs-specific reasons why this isn’t just any old example of throwing money after middle relievers.
If the idea that we need a RH setup man is also WAY overblown
Then so is the concern over how much pay is backloaded to 2012. It’s only one year.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I really think you're wrong.
We need somebody else in the pen. If we didn’t, why was our pen so horrible last season?
No saying that
Needing some in the pen is fine. But being concerned over how much is paid from year 1 to year 2 is a far reaching nitpick.
We’re not talking Soriano for 8 years here.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'm confused.
Are you for or against giving Wood $10 to $12 million?
I'm fine with signing Wood
And people will argue over if he gets paid too much. But I think it’s ridiculous to be concerned about impact to the 2012 payroll if it is backloaded. It’s only 1 year.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
to an extent yes
it is just one year, but its also the first year that we have some financial freedom from the shackles placed on ourselves in 2006-2007
in addition its the first year i can legitimately seeing us contend again
the more we defer to that year, the less we’ll have to work with
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Realistic, or not so much?
Sign Wood. Trade Zambrano (make them take Fukudome also) to the Yankees for Gardner and some cash. Make the trade with Tampa for Garza. Now you’ve got your lead off man, a decient rotation and a prayer!
The Yankees won't take Fukudome.
And who’s the leadoff man?
I know, I know — you said this wasn’t that realistic.
Maybe....
They will if he is included with Zambrano. The lead off man would be Garnder.
why would the yankees take TWO terribly overpriced vetrans, and give away a cheap, fairly young, and productive part of their outfield?
The Cubs would have to eat ALOT of those two contracts, and even then I doubt they would get Gardner in return.
You can't make the Yankees do anything.
Any trade of Big Z to the Bronx will likely be almost exclusively for salary relief.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Well, in that case...
keep Zambrano.
It’s such a gray area right now. Do the Yankees need the starting pitching more to combat what the Red Sox did and keep up with the Rays or do the Cubs’ need the salary relief more?
It’s pretty close, but I might be willing to wager that the Yankees (at least think that they) need the starting pitching more.
Even with Hendry’s shoddy trade record—outside of fleecing major league AAA teams—I believe that Hendry realizes that Zambrano has more value to the Cubs unless the team receives something of moderate value AND nearly all of Zambrano’s salary relieved.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Sentimentally this pleases me
Realistically I’ll hold judgment until the season starts
This news made my morning.
Hope its true. So Wood closing and being set up by Marmol in 2008, and then just three years later the roles reverse.
This should be a big boost to the pen, considering all the games blown in the 7th inning last year. Hopefully one more of the youngters can step up in middle relief (Russell, Carpenter, J Jackson?) and we can really have a solid, much improved bulpen.
Nothing quite like morning Wood
A great way to start the day!
"A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores." Corporal Maxwell Q. Klinger
It gets better - the Cubs signed Kerry Wood!
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I'm all for Kerry Wood.....
If the money is right. Knowing Hendry he overpaid. But Geeez you would think we just signed Cliff Lee around here. I sometimes wander if winning is what some on this blog even really care about.
well, signing Wood does give them a better chance to win.
Trust me, winning is all these people care about. Don’t even question that.
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Dec 16, 2010 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with that....
But I just read an article that suggested the deal was 2yrs/10 million with incentives. If that’s the case this is yet another terrible signing by Hendry and Company.
Agreed...
they can’t go guns blazing after a franchise player like A-Gon, who would be the cornerstone of this club for the next half dozen years, but, they can piss away $10M on a reliever? Incomprehensible. But hey, like people have said…“it’ll sell convention tickets.”
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
Well, come on ...
Adrian Gonzalez would have sold some convention tickets, too.
And there is an important difference here. Wood doesn’t cost the Cubs any talent. Gonzalez (whom I think the Cubs SHOULD have moved heaven and earth to acquire) would have.
Not getting Gonzalez was a bad thing. But it shouldn’t be viewed as a worse thing because Kerry Wood will be re-signed.
They never stood a chance with Adrian Gonzalez
More than few Padres front office people used to work for the Red Sox. They knew exactly the players they wanted. They named them, the Red Sox said ok, and the deal was done. There wasn’t much the Cubs or any other team could have done about that.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'd prefer 2 yrs/$8 million...
…but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the amount. And it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad deal if Kerry has two solid years as a set-up guy in the NL Central.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Hey, it's not like they're going over in spending.
They’re just reaching inside their cash cow for the money that they saved from Lee, Lilly, Theriot, and Nady and which they had said was being directed towards “player development”.
Maybe this is “player development”, because it’ll give guys like Castro, Soto, Colvin, and Cashner a good role model instead of the mopes they’ve been watching the past two years.
by TheGrinch13 on Dec 16, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Like who????
The roster has been full of leaders the last two years!!!!
The energy provided by the Lou and the veterans has been amazing!
It's a positive move.
It’s not the same as signing Cliff Lee or acquiring Adrian Gonzalez. No one is over the moon and thinking that Kerry Wood is about to carry this team to the promised land with his surgically repaired bionic arm. But it does make our bullpen better, and after Marshall and Marmol, it was absolute crap last year.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Wood to Marmol put it in the books sounds great to me.
We'll miss you Big Boy. #10 for Hall of Fame.
I would not call that a "put it in the books" scenario.
Both are pretty good in their roles, but they can lose control at any minute.
As could ANY pitcher
the Cubs sign.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Haven't been around much, but this is interesting beyond
my 12 year man crush on #34.
Assuming Wood will produce as a set-up guy/back up closer, he’s one of the few players Hendry could bring into the current Cubs clubhouse as an accepted leader.
After the last two seasons of Bradley, and Lou’s what do you want me to do bs, adding instant leadership in Wood and a supposedly great clubhouse guy in Pena makes this team much more interesting.
It begs the question: With the added leadership of Wood & Pena to what is already there, is there potential for a plus impact on Zambrano?
may addition by subtraction be real
I highly doubt anyone can calm Z...
…once that fuse is lit.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
Do you think it is possible for people to change?
Or is everyone exactly the same as they always were?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
BIG philosophical question
Optimism often gets overshadowed by history .. but hey, we’re Cubs fans here ..
Frankly, Z didn’t look too shabby after returning. At all.
Almost everyone here was ready to ride him out of town on a rail.
And then suddenly, voila! three months later, the manlove for Z shed abroad was almost touching.
Leopards can’t change their spots but Carlos Zambrano is no leopard .. he’s a passionate and flawed human being like all of us with a talent nobody posting here can equal and a contract binding him to our favorite baseball team. Wouldn’t any of us here like to know people are willing to give us second (and third, and fourth) chances when we screw up and act like asses?
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Sure...what chance is Z on now?
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
after 3 you sure haven't
your loathing of Z is a timeless constant in the Universe. Einstein could wind his alarm clock by your snarkiness.
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on Dec 16, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
He continues to be a pillar of the community!
Never a high priced spoiled brat!!!!!
I feel bad for him, he makes it so easy for his critics!
What makes you think he can change, Al?
Did he have a telethon for homeless kittens that I missed? Maybe he won’t have another “episode” of Carlos, the Madman. If he does though, having Kerry Wood on the team ain’t gonna matter. The man is wired wrong.
"I don't care who the manager is OR who they sign in the off-season...I just want a frickin' World Series winner" - Easy Ed
If it is true
If it is true he has a mental illness and is getting treatment for it finally that could make a difference.
The ignorance about mental illness that exists is understandable as its a lot easier if a guy has a broken leg to see it on an xray he misses 6 weeks and he comes back,
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 16, 2010 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
Another thing
Is if it’s true Larry Rothschild is putting in a word for him in New York does that tell you something?
And this goofy idea he keeps the Cubs from winning. Let’s see since he’s been a full time member of the team in 03 the Cubs have gone to the playoofs 3 times and had 2 other winning seasons.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 16, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
But if the Cubs get a chance to dump Z off and rid themselves of that headache and contract they need to do so.
Now that we have our Veteran presence in the bullpen (if the deal go through)
Can we get a refund on John Grabow?
if Grabow is healthy this year he may have some value...
not worth what he is paid, but I think the same can be said for the left fielder and right fielder
Got Wood for Christmas!
Thanks Hendry!
"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman
by BucknerKongCardenal on Dec 16, 2010 10:28 AM CST reply actions
The Cubs actually have sold t-shirts with this
“We Got Wood” on the front and a K on the back, IIRC
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
It's from 1998
After Wood struck out 20 in his 5th major league start. Fans were pretty hyped up after a terrible 1997 season and then seeing the hottest pitcher in baseball. It was not just double entendre.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I had one for a bit
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Dec 16, 2010 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
What's the over/under on the number of appearances
before a blister sits him down for 3 weeks?
Yes!!!
Bullpen situation is slowly coming together now; at least the back end of the pen. Good move. Now we need to work on another starting pitcher.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
Yes, seriously
I like the move. One could put “provided he stays healthy” in front of any player’s name. Wood knows how to pitch in Wrigley, was lights out with the Yankees, and will be a good presence in the clubhouse. Welcome back, I say.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
How is that?
If the Cubs send am offer and Wood wants more money or years, then the Cubs should not sign him and no one should be mad at the Cubs.
For all the crap the Cubs get for signing too many free agents for too much money, you can’t get mad when they don’t add another free agent.
Unless you just need a rage fix no matter what. Then rage away.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
You miss the point
What I am saying is, that the Cubs have not exactly been great in the PR department this offseason. This build up of a local hero coming home is a good story and makes sense for the Cubs. For it to go away at the last minute, or be outbid by not much and have to hear that we came in 2nd again, would not go well for the organization.
That's just interweb bithcin'
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Interbitchin'?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
by daver on Dec 16, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
YES!
THE most important thing I have read today!
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Man, this is just a bunch of Interbitchin'.
I’m gonna go watch TV.
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Carrie weighs in on Wood
Just says they are talking but nice to see some “official” comment.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101216&content_id=16330784&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions
Mags to return to Detroit.
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/15472785958633473
Interesting in that he got the same money as Pena, and both guys are Boras clients.
Yeah, me too...
It’s a bit of an overspend… but the Tigers can afford to do it because they need a hitter and can spend a little more for a marginal upgrade since they’re so close to contending. If a non-contender gave him $10 mil, that would be different.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 16, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Bullpen help really not needed - Keith Law
Klaw (12:12 PM)
Another team that doesn’t need to sign a FA reliever. Cashner, Carpenter, Marmol, Jay Jackson would be an unreal bullpen next year for peanuts.
He forgot to include Marshall. Bullpen is the least of our worries. Last year we counted on young guys who were not good at baseball to be in our pen and it didnt work out. None of those guys were real prospects. We have guys who are actual prospects this year that are ready to pitch. Wood isnt a bad guy to have in the pen at all, but this team has bigger concerns and the money could have been better allocated. Like getting a real 2nd baseman.
by thezonk on Dec 16, 2010 2:46 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
exactly
and mind you i was still in favor of signing kerry on a hometown discount type deal (purely sentimental purposes)
i think those who are assessing our 2010 bullpen as bad are ignoring the guys on the farm who can be good bullpen arms right now (Carpenter/Jackson)
Now i’d prefer to have Cashner starting (at least give it a shot) before relying on him as a bullpen arm, but the point still stands
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you think Jackson and Carpenter could use more minor league time as starters?
Niether is a projected reliever, are they?
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
well it probably depends on the big league team
If the Cubs feel they can make an impact in the BP I think they’ll get a shot, because they are not as highly regarded starters as Cashner, Archer and McNutt. Also Carpenter apparently looked very good as a reliever in the AFL and was touching 100, and apparently his stuff was looking much greater as a reliever. I think he could make a big impact this year and be a very good option for the 7th inning
Yes
if the plan is to use them as long-term starters, but if that’s the plan… the Cubs wouldn’t be looking at guys like Garza/Webb, because they’d have: Carpenter, Jackson, Cashner, Silva, Wells, Gorzelanny, Zambrano, Dempster for 5 spots, that’s 8 guys not including Archer/McNutt who many think are being fast-tracked
I’d prefer the Cubs let Carp/Jackson/Cashner compete for the 5th spot, send the other two back down to AAA and make Silva the long-man, but i dont think that’s the Cubs plan
as for projections, Keith Law thinks Carpenter will be a very good bullpen arm. He thought Jackson would be a mid-rotation starter before the season, havent seen a recent opinion from him on Jay
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
I saw that from KLaw
Cashner and Jackson should both be starting. Even if they are eventually going to be bullpen guys, they’ve not proven themselves failures as starters yet by any means. Bringing back Wood does two things (hopefully): (1) improves the bullpen – it shouldn’t make it worse and (2) earns the Cubs a little more goodwill with the fans. No harm with that. The money is kind of irrelevant since we’re not going to sign anyone else big this year and we will have plenty of it to overpay a hometown hero next year.
This is kind of stupid
The Cubs desperately need a right hand set up guy. You can argue if Wood is that guy but not the need. Of that list Marmol obviously doesn’t count, two of them are NOT MLB ready and the third is uneven. Sorry but I don’t want my bullpen to depens on Andrew Cashner. He has great stuff but I hope they learned there lesson from last year about needing a PROVEN
set up guy.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
learn your lession - WE NEED PROVEN
end up with….
John Grabow
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Lesson learned relying on a bunch of kids?
You really feel fine with the Cubs bullpen?
We got Wood now anyway but I would STILL like another veteran righty.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
yeah i think we're an elite bullpen now
thought we’d be fine to get through a season on a non-contending team with what we had (if they used the youngsters – Jackson, Carpenter, etc)
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
I like this bullpen too
I like the idea of either Jay Jackson or Chris Carpenter in the bullpen. One of my biggest problems with Hendry was that he never developed any cheap power bullpen arms. The best way to avoid overpaying for crappy bullpen free agents is to have a stock of young power arms. That’s what the Red Sox and the Yankees have been doing.
There is nothing wrong with going young in the bullpen. The problem is when you are going young with AAAA guys like the Cubs did last year. Stevens, Berg etc. were non-prospects. The guys that we are going to be bringing up the next couple years are much, much, much better arms. I really am high on Jay Jackson, Carpenter and Dolis as guys that can be the type of late-inning arms that shut teams down.
What does proven
mean with a reliever? There is so much volitility that you never know what your going to get. Usually its a whole lot of bad. Our last 4 attempts to get a proven setup guy has netted us John Grabow, Scott Eyre, Latroy Hawkins and Bob Howry. Thats alot of wasted money and a whole lot of bad.
Other teams dont do much better. Fangraphs has a nice article about the last ten relievers given three or more years today. Almost all of them outside of mariano rivera are complete busts. You should never spend decent money through free agency on a reliever. Its in an indication that your not doing your job through the farm. You should always be able to get bullpen arms from your own organization. The irony is we finally have the arms in our system yet we still go out and spend the money needlessly.
Truthfully
IM from my boss in Columbus, OH – the hub of all things cubs.
"Easy on the words, brother,'' Quade said.
by RiskyBusiness on Dec 16, 2010 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
oh Kerry!!!!!!!!
i love you
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Talk about a hometown discount.
I’ve moved this post back up to the top of the front page with a new headline and photo.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
yep
its what i expected when the offseason first began, but then all the reliever deals going bonkers made me nervous
kerry’s an unbelievable guy, a true cub
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
This is a great move for a number of reasons.
kerry’s an unbelievable guy, a true cub
But that one may be the most important.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This is a great signing in that case.
Everything I said about his injuries doesn’t matter.
He should be well worth that money.
OK, this is an outstanding deal
One year for $1.5 million is chump change.
I have zero qualms whatsoever about signing Wood for this price.
It might rank as the ultimate hometown discount.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 8:16 PM CST up reply actions
Positive post from NBF
Screenshotted for future reference!
by Arbusto on Dec 17, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is funny
Considering I’m considered a sunshine-pumper by a lot of people here.
This place has some great posters, but unfortunately, it also has some miserable ones.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 17, 2010 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Dude, as somebody who gets along with you most of the time ...
this is the type of post I would avoid. It’s like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Even though you qualified your statement, people will take offense.
Your're probably right, eg
If the people who take offense are ones whose opinions I respect, that would suck and I’d feel badly about it. And perhaps reconsider it.
Otherwise, I don’t care.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 17, 2010 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
One goofy thing about BCB ...
is painting people with broad strokes. Example:
Poster A says something about Chris Archer. Poster B (who defended the DeRosa trade) jumps down Poster A’s throat because he remembers complaints by other posters when DeRosa was traded — even though Poster A never weighed in or supported the DeRosa trade.
Easily my biggest BCB pet peeve, next to ridiculous justifications for the Kosuke signing — but let’s not you and I get into that again.
LOL
Guilty as charged, on occasion.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 17, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
The vast majority of the problems you encounter here...
stem more from how you say things, as opposed to what you actually say.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 17, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Sorry if you don't like it simple and direct
it’s better to get to the point than to tap-dance around the subject all day long.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Tap dancing is a lot of fun. You both should try it some time.
We're out of glue.
by katie casey on Dec 18, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Good exercise, no?
Love Laurel and Hardy, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 18, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
i was expecting a Laurel and Hendry Comment from someone by now
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Fantastic deal.
Kerry is a Cub through and through and this price proves that.
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2011!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 16, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
Wow.
Gotta love him. Wonder if he did this so the Cubs could spend money elsewhere, or if this is just of the last of their money (barring a Fukudome trade)
Saves money for a move for Webb...
but there needs to be some changes in the 40 man roster
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade
Schlitter is amazing!!!
/TJ11 :)
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
How 'bout a trade for Garza first
Webb ain’t goin’ nowhere, Garza is in demand and they have trading chips. Money saved on Woody could go towards Garza, a sure thing to pitch in the future, which Webb is not.
Just win the next game...!
Im kinda in shock.
I couldnt imagine him taking any less than 2 yrs and $9M. I understand a hometown discount but this is Andre Dawson blank check level of discount.
Damn he really did want to come back
Can’t imagine the Yankees would not have offered him more.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
Maybe money isn't the main motivation here.
I read somewhere recently — can’t find the link now — must have been one of the Cliff Lee articles, in which Scott Boras said that only about 20-25% of players sign for the most money. For a lot of them, there are other factors.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Didn't Carrie Muskat's article
quote Kerry as to saying that his “family is most important to him and he just built a house in Chicago”?
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
I said it above
I’m willing to bet the Santo funeral had a major impact on him.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I am guessing the fact that he had already moved his family to Chicago
was a big sign. Serously we owe Sarah Wood some kind of prize.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
outstanding, given the big contracts given to other relief pitchers
people here have condemned Jim Hendry for his numerous screw-ups, so we should acknowledge that JH did very well here.
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
Kerry will always be the man!
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
wow. I like that
I like that a lot. It’ll be good to have K.Wood back and that’s a very nice deal too. If he has a good year it’ll be interesting to see what the going rate is next off-season.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
Really hard to believe
I’ve heard of a hometown discount, but that’s unreal. I hope it’s true.
Welcome back Woody.
random thoughts aplenty: @crouch17
YES!
HOT DOG! Cheap, and nice at twice the price!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 4:41 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
That's an absolutely horrible internet meme that should never be associated with Ron Santo.
Ridiculous.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
cool story, bro
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
Cool story Hansel
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 17, 2010 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Remember the ovation Wood got when he made his first relief appearance after his injury?
That will be nothing compared to when he’s introduced at Wrigley in April.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
This bullpen has the makings of being tops in the division.
With Wood, Cashner, Marshall, and Marmol available in the 7th-9th innings, this team gets exactly what it needs. A shorter game for its not-so-stellar starting staff.
Also, have we all forgotten about Angel Guzman? If he is able to come back and be the lights-out arm he was 2 years ago, then this team is suddenly stocked with bullpen talent. This team may be a Webb signing and bounce back year from Ramirez away from putting up a fight in the Central.
by SportinTheRegion on Dec 16, 2010 4:49 PM CST reply actions
im guessing this signing will move cashner back to rotation
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
Hmmmmm
Maybe… just maybe….if Cashner is in the rotation, this frees up a Zambrano trade?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Z was already freed up, IMO.
Wood signing and Cashner starting doesn’t change anything regarding Z’s value elsewhere.
if the rot is filled
If the rotation is filled the Cubs will have to decide if he’s better in the pen in Chicago or starting in Iowa.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 16, 2010 4:57 PM CST up reply actions
Like JC said Cashner probably goes back to the rotation (at least i hope so)
And the gooz had a very serious injury and surgery, so I wouldn’t count on him. But maybe he can come back and be a solid 7th inning arm if we’re lucky.
Perhaps but,
With Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, and Silva already slotted into spots barring injury, and indications pointing to Jim Hendry signing another starter, Cashner might be in that bullpen/ 6th starter roll this year.
Which would be fine with me to start the year. Keep Cashner down there with Kerry and hopefully he learns a thing or two about pitching. And when we need another starter, get him in there and see what he can do.
by SportinTheRegion on Dec 16, 2010 4:52 PM CST reply actions
minor leagues
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Cubs' Website Depth Chart
1.ROTATION
2.1. R. Dempster
3.2. T. Gorzelanny
4.3. C. Zambrano
5.4. R. Wells
6.5. C. Silva
7.6. C. Coleman
No mention of Cashner. Subtract Zambrano, add Cashner. I think we tend to forget about Coleman.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
This is a direct lift from their site. They have him ahead.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
The Cubs, as I said in the title of the post
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
thats...
scary
He's my Hossa
HO-HO-HO-HO-HOSSA
by jesus christos on Dec 16, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
Oh for Chrissakes
I’m not lying. Look it up yourself
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I'm not suggesting that you're lying.
I’m wondering where you found it. Jeez.
I don't know how many times I have to say it.
I said the Cubs website three times
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
It's just under the team's roster heading.
It’s really just a list of starting pitchers—it doesn’t carry much significance.
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've looked at their depth charts on there during the season....
hardly ever very accurate. Not really even worth considering really.
by Dcr18 on Dec 16, 2010 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Whatever
I just put it on here to show what the Cubs have as their projected rotation. Feel free to disagree with the Cubs about their own players. I couldn’t care less.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
You're confusing the people who run the Cubs' website
with the actual Cubs.
Mike Quade has no part in their website I assure you.
by mic on Dec 16, 2010 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gee, thanks
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Um well I'm just saying that it's usually not accurate.
I seriously doubt Hendry or Quade or anyone involed with roster decisions made that depth chart. Probably Muscat if I had to guess
by Dcr18 on Dec 16, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Zambrano...
and its a monstrous IF, he pitches like he did towards of the season hes going to be ahead of even Dempster come May.
I hope he does…. aghhh
You don't have to subtract Z.
Gorz could be traded. And this is December, not March.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I've been thinking....
Since many teams would be hesitant on trading for Kosuke even if the Cubs ate salary, maybe they could package him with someone like Gorz to make it more attractive to another team?……
I'd do that.
Suddenly, the Cubs have some starting pitching depth.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yep, with all are back-end type arms Gorzo is probably expandable.
And of course there were the rumors the other day about him being shopped. Maybe even someone like Chirinos could be involved in the deal if necessary
Curious About Maple Street Annual
How long can you wait before publishing the rosters in the MSP annual? When is press time for that publication?
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
I am pretty sure we know who will be on the cover now.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Who?
It won’t be Kerry Wood. Haven’t decided yet.
The drop dead publication date is late January. Hopefully, we’ll get everyone in.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Thanks
I always order both the Cubs and the Cardinals MSP annuals in February because those are the two MLB teams I see the most. They are well-written, if readers can get past what’s on the cover.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
The only reason Kerry wanted to come back....
….is because he wanted to grow out is goatee and facial hair again!
This has nothing to do with his love of Chicago.
I hope if he does that Cashner gets a clean shave
or else I’m gonna confuse the two of them alot this year.
No kidding
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Kerry
I’m sure you’ll all be shocked to know I’m really excited and happy about this.
I had tears in my eyes this morning.
Nice thing to have Hendry put under the tree,
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
One year only 1.5 million?
Great Scott! That’s a great deal!
by Chi-Fed on Dec 16, 2010 5:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
lol, that my reaction too.
"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin
1.5 million jigowatts?!?!?!?!
Hope springs eternal: Cubs in 2011!
by neverAcquiesce on Dec 16, 2010 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How did you get my picture?
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 16, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
I wrote this piece for SB Nation Chicago about Kerry’s return.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Excellent but one mistake
Kerry and his wife had 3 not 2 kids.
Your writing is always good. You could write your grocery list and make it good.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 16, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
One big gripe, Al.
“Inexplicably, the Cubs cut ties after (the 2008) season.”
It was explicable, i.e. it was possible to explain the move. The Cubs wanted to get more left handed, needed to spend on FAs to do that and didn’t want to commit $10 million a season to Wood. That might have been the WRONG decision — especially considering who they signed — but there was logic and an explanation to it.
Considering how badly Wood pitched for the Indians in 2009, I don’t think that was a bad overall strategy by the Cubs. I know you’re going to say that he might have pitched better if he hadn’t left Chicago, but we have no way of proving that.
You make a valid point.
However, in my mind it’s still somewhat inexplicable. In any case, I’m happy he’s back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wha?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
I think Al means ...
that it’s inexplicable that the Cubs thought they should implement said strategy.
Correct.
Sorry if my explanation was inexplicable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What was MOST inexplicable ...
was that the Cubs decided to replace Kerry with Kevin Gregg.
by elgato on Dec 16, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 16, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
The same Kevin Gregg who will be getting a contract
a lot bigger than Wood’s. He sucked for the Cubs but he seems fine now.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of players
seem to be that way.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin Gregg. Aaron Miles (sort of).
Who else? Milton Bradley sure had a great year in Seattle. Theriot clearly was so good he was in LA’s plans for 2011.
Replace in position only
They had to put a lower cost player in that slot. I didn’t agree with that position then and still do not. However, Woody’s market value post-2008 was higher than Gregg’s, perhaps as $3M more. Did the Tribe over-pay Woody? Sure, but perhaps Woody would have cost the Cubs $2M-$3M more for 2009 than Gregg.
Just win the next game...!
Well, right.
But here’s the thing. The 2008-09 offseason was arguably Hendry’s worst. He shelled out millions to Bradley, Miles, Gathright, Gregg, Heilman and Gaudijn. None of those guys had any positive impact on the 2009 Cubs.
Now, you can argue that Hendry’s strategy to make the Cubs more left handed made sense - particularly after Kosuke’s awful second half in 2008 and the Dodgers series - but he just got the wrong guys.
But that’s not a caveat that really matters much. The strategy either failed because it was flawed to begin with, or the implementation was poor — or both.
inexplicably
they didn’t offer aribtration
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
time to dig out those #34 jerseys
I know what I want Santa to bring me
ask not what the Cubs can do for you - ask what you can do for the Cubs.
If the Rays ask for too much, try to get Carmona from the Tribe.
They would probably ask for a lot too so idk
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
The deal reportedly comes with signicant incentives
bases on appearences and a vesting clause on same.
Sounds good to me.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
Yes, it does.
Hopefully, he’ll make all the incentives and be back for 2012 also.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I like it...
for 1.5 Mil and for just a year it seems to be a no brainer to me.
People are still going to bring up past unjuries, but cripes that was 4 years ago
when he had arm issues and NONE since then…
R.I.P. Ronnie Santo... you will be missed...
oh oh
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
Well, he has had some injury problems.
NONE related to the elbow stuff from earlier, though. It was back problems last year, plus some blisters. Once he came back last May, he was 100% healthy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I've put a Kerry Wood poll on the front page.
Please vote.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
do we get bonus points?
"That's life, that's what all the people say.
You're riding high in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I'm gonna change that tune,
When I'm back on top, back on top in June."
- Big boy Frankie
by lexmarklover on Dec 16, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Just remember Al can track votes
and anyone who votes NAY or MEH might find some glitches when they try to post.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
Glad he's back
There was very little to be excited about a couple weeks ago. Kerry coming back is huge, not just for his arm, but for what he represents around here. He is a true Cub through and through.
"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin
Sweet news.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
Sue369
Its been fun sharing the cubs chat with you this summer! Merry Christmas n Happy Holidays to you and the Family!
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Aw thanks jeff.
Happy holidays to you and your family too.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
i was "meh" on signing kw...
but now that i see the deal we have gotten…it is pretty hard to find something to gripe about. good sign, Jim! keep it up!
Now go get us a starter, and a better 2b!! lol
Glad to see it's official
And with a deal not too many people can be mad about, now let’s go get a solid starter and we’ll be able to hear “This is the year” all the way from heaven.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Yes Sir
I’m really starting to like this team, it’s looking like we’ll all be raising our W flags more than last season, hopefully a lot more
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Yayyyyyyyyy
What a hometown discount! I kind of suspected there might be some incentives built into that. No problem. Hopefully he’ll meet them and be back in 2012.
Welcome back Kerry!
Swoosie
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you n yours!
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
This is amazing
We were seeing reports that Kerry Wood wanted a 2 year, 7 million dollar contract. If that’s what the Yanks were offering him, then this was a steal for the Cubs. Not only does this give the fans something to root for, it also fills a gap that we needed to fill – for cheap!!
With his return, Kerry Wood immediately becomes the face of the team. His leadership ability, presence in Chicago, and damn well good pitching skills will give him this title. When Wood left in 2009, I argued that we lost the face of the team. And we did, but now he’s back
I remember when Wood signed with the Indians and I posted “think of this as a two year vacation away from the Cubs. Once the payroll situation becomes better, then he’ll return.” I was actually wrong. Kerry Wood did in fact take a two year vacation and return. However, he took a deal that was really cheap with an already constricted payroll. What a class act!
Question: will he wear 34 I presume??
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
great...the face of our team is the setup man out of the bullpen....
what does that say about this team?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 16, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Well Wood's in a weird situation to begin with
From dominating starter to a pretty decent closer for us to a reliever. It’s not the most orthodox path
Viva la Cubs Révolution!!!
The face is of our team
Is a man who’s given a lot to the city of Chicago and has been a life long Cub. Whether he’s the set-up man or a what I don’t think it’s any shame saying he’s the face of the team.
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
SWL... You k-n-o-w
So why ask? :) How you doing? Happy Holidays to you! We’ll finish, with luck, 3rd.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Congrats. He must have really wanted to play for the Cubs, and I’m sure the fans are a part of that. He turned down $3.5 mil from the White Sox and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Yankees offered even more than that. He gave a huge hometown discount, and you guys are getting a great deal.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
Follow me on twitter @nyybrandonc
I don't think even Blou (if that was his name)
could complain at this signing. Almost no risk for less than Ryan Theriot is paid.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
Trust me he would have complained
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
You got that right.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
sad thing is he was the most excited and defended MB forever
and would have found a way to try and ruin Wood returning.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Did Blou die?
I used to visit BCB frequently, but pretty much took the last year or so off. I haven’t seen him here since I have returned.
Probably why I plan on sticking around now.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 17, 2010 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure he got fired
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Dec 17, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
Giggle
We can't win at home. We can't win on the road. I just can't figure out where else to play!
-- Pat Williams
by Fat Punk Kicker on Dec 17, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
You could have given him some of your exclamation points
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
he was DFA's
designated f*#king a$$hole
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
This is literally half the $$$ I thought we'd need
To get Wood back. I (as was Al Y.?) was thinking 3-4M/yr would be needed. I’m content.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Even tho Al Yellon may "tease me again"...
I’m gonna be busy before Christmas, so I wanted to take a second to wish ALL of the BCB fans A Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays!!!!!!! (damn it TJ11!!!!!!) Its been a pleasure, tho the season disappointed. Thank You Jim H for 2 decent deals for Christmas! Pena & Wood. And thank you Al Yellon for all the info! Enjoy your family, friends and the season all of you. Be safe
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
by jeffstorm2 on Dec 16, 2010 6:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This proves...
that he would have taken less before the 09 season, and the Cubs never needed to make the idiot Wood for Gregg swap in the first place. Kerry Wood should have been a Cub for life!
If, and this is always a big IF with this team, they manage their talent right and look for some cheap and efficient upgrades in the rotation (I’m not sure about Brandon Webb) and on the bench (a backup for Pena and Ramirez would be nice), I’m not going to write off this team’s chances at contending for a .500 record and a nice run in ’12 too.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
not necessarily
the $20.5 million he earned the last two years may have made it easier to accept this type of deal
i still have no clue why the Cubs didnt offer Wood arb, but just because he took less now doesn’t mean he could’ve taken less then. He earned a lot of money in between
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
He did exactly what Hendry told him to do
He went out and got a great contract.
I must admit, I’m stunned Wood could be had for this price, at these terms.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 16, 2010 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
So am I!!!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Wood = Dawson
The last time a free agent signed this good a deal because he wanted to be a Cub was Andre Dawson’s blank contract in 1987.
Athletes are competitive, and salaries are a part of that competition. Cliff Lee, and now Kerry Wood have matured beyond that stage. They have enough that their kids and their kids’ kids will never want monetarily. So why not follow your heart and play where you want to play?
Kerry is the ultimate Cubs fan.
Kerry Wood Bleeds cubbie blue
You will not find another reliever with that big of bang for your buck. Jeters hometown discount was pathetic compared to this. Talk about the Yankees getting snubbed first Lee and now Wood.
Wow indeed... almost workin' for free!
Happy Holidays Katie.
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
Welcome back, Woody
RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010) and Ron Santo (February 25, 1940-December 2, 2010).
I almost feel bad for Kerry
I kinda feel like Ricketts and co. took advantage of Kerry’s desire to return to the Cubs. I hope he didn’t turn down to much money, and I hope the incentive clauses give him a chance to make it back.
Anyways, I am thrilled that he is going to be back on the Northside. The late-innings should be pretty solid now with Marmol, Marshall and Wood in the bullpen. Now the only trick is getting enough runs to get them a lead.
Regardless, it looks like the Cubs might actually have a plan this off-season. Is Hendry still the GM?
People can't take advantage of you
unless you let them. Sometimes happiness and what your heart tells you are worth more than money.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
by sue369 on Dec 16, 2010 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
anyone think his wife being from Waukeegan might have something to do with this?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Very possible
and they have a house in Chicago.
A lovely story:
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....
But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.
The end
exactly
sometimes comfort and happiness is more important than money…and when you jsut made $10m the year before, $$$ should not be (but often is) the #1 factor
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
I'm so happy he's back
And what a discount we got for him. It’s clear he wanted to be here again. Just a class act, and true Cub. I hope he finishes his career here.
It's time, guys. Let's win it for Ronnie...
no doubt!
I didn't understand the "white-collar Cub fans", "blue-collar Sox fans" until much later in life. Harry Smith~ "For Cubs Fans Only".
+ 1 trillion
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Cool
I bought a Wood jersey for next to nothing a few weeks ago. I wasn’t wooried about it being outdated, just wanted it. Now I am current again.
Welcome home Woody
13- Warner, 23- Sandberg, 40- Tillman, 11- Walter
No Trade Clause
I wonder if there is one in the deal. If Wood comes back and is effective yet the Cubs fall out of contention, Wood will have serious trade value. Even low budget teams would be able to take on his contract for two or three months and there isn’t a commitment beyond 2011 (pending vesting options).
I’ll be curious to see how the deal is constructed… I assume the intent is to keep him around and have him retire as a Cub, but there is another side to this deal.
Positive vibes on this thread
Nice to read happy thoughts on here.
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
A Class Act
As always for him, Kerry demonstrates what it means to be a Cub—not since Dawson gave the Cubs a blank contract and signed for $500,000 have I seen a player dedicate this kind of “monetary” devotion to the Cubs. Welcome back to Cubdom Kerry! And no, he’s not the second coming in terms of a pennant, but he is an example of why we all love the Cubs.
by Santofan on Dec 16, 2010 9:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Thrilled he is back!!!!
A wrong has been corrected!!!!
I can’t believe he was signed for this!!!!!!!!
He must really want to come back!!!!
I just want to say this again
in case people miss it. The record the Cubs had from the time Quade took over until the end of the season was the best in the Majors. Why again can’t they compete?
First question:
How many of the Cubs’ opponents had nothing to play for? I know the Padres certainly did, but September baseball is often filled with Bobby Scales-style callups.
Second question: The Cubs were still 51-74 into late August. You can’t just dismiss that.
The legend of the "mystical mid-season manager replacement bump"
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 17, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Lou had lost interest very early in the season
if not before the season even began and it very much rubbed off on the team. When Quade took over it was an entirely different environment and they finally played up to their potential.
No question.
But you can’t only judge the Cubs on the way they played under Quade — which seems to be what you’re doing.
When can I get the new Woody jersey from the Cubs store?
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Jordan primarily did that because his old number was retired
Am I rite?
"Keep pushin' til' it's understood. And these badlands start treating us good."
Looks like Santo's funeral was a factor
but the real work was done later that day at Dempster’s fund raiser at D’Agostino’s.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1217-cubs-chicago—20101216,0,3564140.story
Seriously Wood turned down a lot more money percentage wise than Lee. The ultimate home town discount.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 16, 2010 10:59 PM CST reply actions
wow
Though Wood can increase his salary with incentives based on games finished — in case Marmol gets injured or struggles — he reportedly turned down more lucrative offers from the Red Sox and the White Sox, possibly leaving as much as $12 million on the table.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Bad move
Outside fact that Kerry Wood is famous to all Cubs fans, what make this a good move ? I think Cubs are wasting money on charity right now… doesn’t seem like a good season is going on for the fans and clubis planning to say “ok we finished 70-92 but at least we had wood for his last season in the majors”…
And what burr is up YOUR ass?
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
1 year/1.5 mil
for one of the best relievers on the FA market. There is NOTHING wrong with this signing. The Cubs need bullpen help and Kerry pitched very well last year. If it was any other name with the same stats, I guarantee you would love the move. The Cubs are not just bringing Wood back to “please the fans.” With a very limited budget, this was a perfect signing.
ummmm...
so what you are saying is that you have no idea why the cubs would sign a relief pitcher who was setting up mariano rivera in the playoffs last year for a price that is insanely below the market value for that pitcher – and on top of it the cubs really need a decent right-handed setup man in the bullpen and the same pitcher just happens to be beloved by the vast majority of cubs fans…. if this is an accurate representation of you position, i completely fail to understand your logic. how can you call this a “bad move”?
welcome home woody.
"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella
how can you be so innocents ?
and how can you miss his long and very bad session in cleveland ? we’ll see the number after the all star break…
Dude, even if he's not very good ...
the Cubs are throwing $1.5 million at him — less than they’ll probably play Tom Gorzelanny and about a third of what they’ll pay John Grabow.
There is almost zero downside to this.
We should go easy on the guy...
…my burr up his ass question notwithstanding. He’s likely 14 or 15, judging from the writing, and is, well, clueless. If he or she isn’t 14 or 15, then, well, yeeeeeshh….
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
No, I just think that someone has to play "Devil's Advocate"
and since Al Pacino is nowhere to be found, this guy stepped in.
Because you would have to be a complete baseball moron to argue the logistics of this deal. Aside from some of the younger elite players in baseball that have yet to hit arbitration, this might be the most favorable contract—from management’s persepective—in baseball.
Come on Lisa, I'm trying to impress people here. You don't win friends with salad. ~ Homer J. Simpson
by TheBeerBaron on Dec 17, 2010 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
Look, this is a nice little deal
It won’t put the Cubs over the top and may in of itself generate enough revenue to offset the contract 100%.
But after Woody had a BIG deal with the Cubs previously and was injured for a good portion of it, he knew he wasn’t going to get big money coming back here. He just got paid $20M for 2 seasons as a reliever. He made over $50M while with the Cubs. He gave the Cubs a “home-town” discount knowing he made A LOT of money years back while perpetually being on the DL.
It’s a feel-good story, the Cubs needed a reliever, he comes at a cheap price and if he can stay off the DL, good for the Cubs.
Now… let’s see Hendry continue to improve this team with an eye also on 2012 and beyond.
Just win the next game...!
THIS...
makes me really happy. I’ve always loved Kerry as a player and a person…despite the injuries. This is definitely where he belongs!!
Zambrano to the Yankees
I’m curious about this idea. It would (could) ultimately be a Zambrano for Garza deal with the exchanging of prospects. I like it, what about you guys?
I may post one when the news conference happens.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
2 pm CST.
I have a link to the live stream of the news conference, I’ll post it then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Are you going
to the news conference?
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 17, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Love the deal
I wouldn’t at all be surprised if the conversation went like this:
KW – “I want to come back to the CUbs.”
JH – “Money is tight and I’ve got a budget.”
KW – “Tell me what you can afford, I’ll sign it, but keep this in mind next year when all that money comes off the books.”
JH – “WIll do.”
And I’m sure Hendry will keep his word. He always seems to with players and that’s why they respect him as much as they do. at this point, I think that Wood will play out his career with the Cubs.
I expect an increase for Wood next year assuming this is a decent year for him.
Furthermore: “Increase for Wood” … TWSS.
by jerry morales rules on Dec 17, 2010 12:11 PM CST reply actions
I think that probably not to far off
Ironically according to reports this might be kind of similar to Lee who apparently really did not want to go to either the Yankees or Rangers and has his people contact the Phillies to say he was interested.
I fully expect the contract to have significant incentives based on appearences and some extra juicy
money if should for any reason become the closer (thus incentives for finishing games)
I don’t think this should be underestimated. Kerry Wood basically said the to Cubs he wanted to play for them and he would take what they could afford. If it was merely a question of living in Chicago with his family he could have made over twice as much playing for the White Sox. I don’t think even
Al in is wildest dreams (and he has been dreaming of this since Woody left) imagined this scenario .I don’t know who four idiots were who voted NAY! on Wood but to be kind they are clueless.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Except where Jessica used the word "idiots".
No namecalling, please.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hey I was being nice
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
I admire your restraint.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 17, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
IIRC ...
Hendry made a similar deal with Nomar before 2005.
Nomar made 8.25 million in 05
I find it hard to believe that was steep hometown discount. It was not like he could have easily gotten 2 to 3 times that which Wood could have. However Hendry did have a good relationship with him as he did with nearly every player. It is isn’t just about giving fat contracts, Hendry has a solid rep for always being honest and doing things to help players move on if they don’t work out with the Cubs.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Jessica -- I wasn't saying Nomar got a hometown discount.
I remember this chain of events: Nomar signed a pretty reasonable contract. Hendry said he would pay him more if money freed up after the offseason. It did, and Hendry paid Nomar slightly more.
Am I crazy, or does anybody else remember this?
I am not sure
I know Hendry and Nomar got on very well but it does not make sense logically. Cubs did notalter his contract so he made what he agreed to and he was gone the next year. I would have to look it up but I think the main thing was he signed pretty quickly. At the time I think 8.25 million was considered below market so gave some kind of discount or quick approval but not really the same. The closest thing to what Woody did was Dawson, but the reasons were different. I think players have given hometown or discounts for other reasons because they preferred to play for a certain team, but basically saying I love the Cubs and I will play for what you can pay strikes me as unique in baseball.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I also recall that occurring.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 17, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
I was never a huge fan of Kerry Wood.
Nor was I a detractor. I liked him when he was on the Cubs. I wasn’t too broken up about him being gone (although I sentimentally found it sad). But this type of loyalty has won my heart. It skyrocketed my opinion of him. I think this is an awesome deal. I’d like to thank him. I’d also like to thank his wife. It’s getting me excited about next year right at a low point when I was starting to doubt I would.
We're out of glue.
An "overflow" thread for this will post at 2 pm CST...
… when the news conference begins, with a link to the live stream from CSN Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Perhaps Woody could flash his middle fingers for old times sake
if anyone asks him about the White Sox offer.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I've missed jumps on BCB....
Winter needs to hurry up and be over!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 17, 2010 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I thought?
I thought the Cubs had new owners? I thought that everything was going to be different? Oh my bad their is one thing that will be different this year, The Cubs will have a worse record then the Pirates.
Al, you got to give the cover to Ron Santo
who else is more deserving of being honored with the cover.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
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Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
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