Horrible News For Cubs Fans: G-Day
As a dedicated, dual Cubs-KC fan, this trade is horrible news for Cubs fans. Every start he has against Chicago will be G-Day---game over for us and a W or, at worst, no decision for Greinke. He only underperformed last year because he was bored with KC. Expect Greinke to perform circa 2009 with Milw next season. This might be worse news than Mr. Santo's passing for Cubs fans, at least with regard to our prospects for the 2011 season.
I'm sorry to be so down. But my early sense is that our years of dominance over Milw are o-v-e-r---at least until Greinke is hurt, traded, or lost to free agency from the Brew Crew. - TL
PS: At least the Cards and Astros have to face Greinke the same number of times.
over 1 year ago
timlacy
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Cubsluver22: I agreed...
…with all your comments on the other link. Indeed, I opened up this new thread to underscore just how bad this going to be for Cubs fans. People don’t understand that Greinke’s numbers last year were “depressed” because he was depressed about pitching for KC. Oh, and KC had a horrible defense last year. …Sigh. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Well, Weeks and Betancourt
plus Braun, Fielder, McGehee, and whoever they stick in CF doesn’t exactly create an airtight defense. They will, however, supply him with more runs than he has ever seen before.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Why do I think of Kevin Bacon?
Remember in Animal House, when all heck starts breaking loose and he says “Remain calm, all is well!!”
Is this Jim Hendry these days?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
My wife says if I watch anymore Kevin Bacon movies, I might turn into Kevin Bacon
fingers crossed
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Hopefully without the make up he wears in that commercial
P.S the Bacon commercial for Visa some years back was one of my all time favorites.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 19, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Hendry...
Will go out next offseason and spend stupid amounts of money to make up for his mistakes this offseason. Then we will be reading 1 post after another defending him because were a big market team and it’s ok to overpay.
yet over pay
is what many basking Hendry want him to do with every free agent and trade he hasnt made this off season. Its a double edged sword, or so it seems
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
basking = bashing
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Maybe, maybe not!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Milwaukee's rotation is looking pretty good
Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum and Wolf. That’s fairly impressive.
Yes, but we have Cashner wasting away in the bullpen
So we’re gonna dominate the middle innings
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Cashner is likely getting a shot at the rotation with the Wood signing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
doubtful
Wood’s return moves Cashner to the rotation probably
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 19, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Ummmmmmmmmmm
I thought they still have to play the games. Remember we did beat Halladay and Oswalt last year with our crappy team.
Anything can happen…..it’s a crap shoot. Their rotation is starting to look very good, which is where they were lacking last year.
I think I shall wait till the season starts to assess any team. Even the Phillies with their big 4 are not a lock, though they do have a head start on everybody else.
So how many posts will we have about a pitcher who was traded to another team?
This makes two.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I believe you meant to say
So how many posts will we have about a traded to another team will be used as a bash hendry and Ricketts fest?
this makes two (more) today
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
I didn't post this...
…to bash Hendry, the Ricketts, etc. I posted this because it’s bad news for the Cubs, plain and simple. Honestly, I’m a Hendry fan. I’m sure that he thought the Brewers might get Greinke, we will find out later that the Cubs had their fingers in the pie. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Al, You know...
…that I’m a dual fan; you can’t be surprised that I wanted my own post on this. :)
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Sigh.
Still, this topic was already being discussed. We didn’t need a second post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The other thread was...
…trending toward bashing our management. So I went another direction.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
good reason to
but sadly it will turn into more of the same….but not your fault
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Ho-ho!
Let’s post about Kerry instead!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Nah, let's post about the Rose Bowl
Go Badgers!
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 19, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Sad to say, your talents are wasted on this crowd...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, when the Cubs trade for a TOR pitcher...
you’ll be able to delete these posts, Al, and nobody will notice.
Can this off season get any worse?
Actually they already did - December 7, 1989.
Cubs acquired Jose Nunez from the TOR Blue Jays for Paul Kilgus. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
They have a TOR pitcher
His name is Carlos Zambrano.
by Not Bruce Froemming on Dec 19, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
Not unless he regains his control
TOR starters don’t walk 4 per 9 IP. He is due for a pretty bad regression this season if he doesn’t fix that.
Zambrano is not a No. 1 starter.
When his head is clear, he’s a good No. 2. When he’s going crazy, he’s not a good No. 5. Also, Zambrano has lost velocity in recent years.
lost velocity is not an issue
his best pitch was always his sinking fastball. Lost velocity actually helps makes the sinker sink even more.
As for Z being a #1, I agree, he is not. He does not have the psyche for that, even though he pitches like an ace from time to time.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Dec 20, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
The sky is falling!
Why didn’t you just post this as a comment under the original Grienke thread? duh.
He only underperformed last year because he was bored? Genius.
I posted it here...
…because I think I’m special. :)
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
and that pretty much sums up BCB these days in a nutshell.
But props to you TL for your honesty.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Also, I had something..
…different to say. I wasn’t bashing Hendry or the Ricketts. I wanted to talk about Greinke’s abilities relative to our team, not lament our front office.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Yeah, that "bored" line doesn't make a lot of sense.
I see only one truly outstanding year in Greinke’s record — his Cy Young year of 2009.
His 2008 season was a little above average — pretty similar to Ryan Dempster’s 2009 season. His 2010 season looks like Randy Wells’ 2010 season.
He’s making a lot of money and has a lot of talent. But are you convinced that he’s actually a top-rank starting pitcher worth the kind of haul the Brewers are giving up? I’m not.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Al, I know you...
…want to be optimistic. It’s a Cubs fan characteristic. But you’re going to get nowhere by undervaluing Greinke’s past performances. His 5 best years are still ahead of him at the age of 27. You know this. If Milw locks up Greinke for that long, it’s just bad news for the Cubs.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
His 5 best years still ahead of him?
whoa slow down there. He’s gonna have 5 more years better than his 2009 campaign? If that was true I’d be all for blowing up the farm for Greinke, he’d be a first ballot hall of famer. But he’s not guaranteed to improve every just because he’s not 30 yet. He’s already thrown alot of innings for someone his age, so you could make a case that he might decline earlier than expected. Yes he’s a great pitcher, but he’s probably more of a number two starter on a championship team. His 2009 season seems more like an exception rather than a rule, and it very well could end up the best season he has in his career.
Don’t get me wrong, I would have loved if the Cubs got Greinke, but it’s not like he would have pushed them over the top this year. You seem to think that since he’s now on the Brewers, the Cubs are doomed. Pretty extreme considering we might face him 2-4 times a year. Sure they might lock up after 2012, but they have a weak farm system and are most likely gonna lose Prince. So I’m not that scared of the Brewers in the coming years.
I didn't say that his next five years...
…would all be ahead of him. Rather, his 5 best years as a pitcher—-statistically speaking—-will come in the 27-32 range. I’d take a 5-year run at 75% of his 2009 numbers, wouldn’t you?
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
But that "one truly outstanding year" was also...
…historic. Most objective observers say it ranks in the top 5 performances by any ML pitcher since the 1960s. We’re talking Pedro Martinez, Clemens, etc. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Really?
Wow. I looked up all starting pitcher seasons since 1960, ranked by ERA+ — Greinke’s ranked 14th.
Yes, that’s great. Do it more than once and I’d be impressed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Odds are that Greinke has...
…one or two more of those years in them. Wouldn’t you have preferred to see them either with the Cubs or not with the Brewers?
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
We'll see.
Like I said, I’m not totally impressed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd say he is an above-average pitcher and the Brewers made a good trade -- good for them.
I also think Hendry isn’t a good GM, but I’m not going to get on him for this.
He’s had a decent, if somewhat underwhelming offseason so far. Not getting Gonzalez is disappointing. I’d like to see the Cubs get a real second baseman, but I don’t see that happening. Maybe Lee is closer than we realize and Castro will move there some time next summer?
Regardless, the Cubs aren’t likely to contend in 2011, so I wouldn’t advocate giving up too much for a pitcher that would make a 78-win team become an 84-win team.
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 19, 2010 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
exactly
there is a time to go all in, and this is not the move nor the time to do so
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
I don't like the idea of waiting until the 2011-12 off-season and then expecting a miracle
It would have been better to see a move or two for the future this off-season. Sure, the young Cubs coming up will all be miracle workers, but there isn’t a 1B in the lot of them and a real #1 starter is always a plus. Neither Greinke or Agon would have put the 2011 Cubs over the top, but either one would have been a start toward building a contender in 2012 and beyond.
I’m afraid that the team is setting up for another sugar binge in the 2011-12 FA market.
by ClarkFan on Dec 19, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Are you serious?
Ok…A-Gon was TOO much. Dunn was NOT good enough. Now, Greinke , who’s won a Cy Young at the ripe old age of 26, hasn’t shown enough? Seriously…what kind of player is this team in need of…other than the obvious “cost controlled”? Or are you seriously believing this team is a contender? I’m curious to your thoughts. Greinke, by far, is a gazillion times better than what we have OR what we got. Wanna waste another 3 or 4 years on our “future” pitching prospects, like we have with Jeff Samardzija, and find out we got nothin’? I sometimes just shake my head at some of these comments. I don’t spend anything on this team, financial wise other than a new cap and a couple t-shirts and jerseys a year (unless you call going to 30 or 40 games a year of the Peoria Chiefs, spending on the Cubs) but, I would think that people, like yourself, Al (and many others on this site), would be totally pissed and would want a bit more effort from the front office to satisfy the thousands you spend per year. Kerry Wood and Carlos Pena? This off season is an epic failure. Sugar coat it all you want. Praise Hendry and Ricketts all you want. Bottom line…they blew it.
Can this off season get any worse?
by Easy Ed on Dec 19, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I don't always agree with you
such as trading Castro but I’m recommending this one.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I'm pissed about Gonzalez.
But not about Dunn and not really about Greinke — who’s no-trade protection almost certainly would have prevented a trade to the Cubs.
You raise some valid points, Ed. But I get the feeling that you’re either intentionally or unintentionally piling on.
No...not really piling on, el...
…it’s just that it’s looking like another year of “let’s wait and see”. Well, like I said…at least I got the Chiefs.
Can this off season get any worse?
who own da Chiefs?
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Wait, were the Cubs on Greinke's "no trade" list?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
It's almost certain that they were.
We discussed this in the other Greinke thread on Sunday. Given the high pressure surrounding the Cubs and the fact that several players get no-trade protection from big-money clubs as a way to increase their own leverage — why get NT protection for Pittsburgh if there’s never any chance you’ll be traded there? — it’s hard to imagine that the Cubs weren’t on the list.
It’s an educated guess. But it is educated.
Rebuilding
I guess you have no concept or understanding of the word rebuilding. The fans don’t think the Cubs will contend, and it’s pretty obvious the front office doesn’t either.
If Hendry or the family thought this team, by obtaining a star player (ala Gonzalez), could contend, wouldn’t you think we would be going hard and furious after these guys? This is the same Jim Hendry who in August ‘09 refused to trade Rich Harden because he was hanging on to the hope that we could overcome a 7 game defecit. Wouldn’t you think he would have tried to trade for these players?
No, he, like every other rational Cub fan, understands the blockbuster trade to save the season will be all in vain. It won’t make us contenders.
And the whole 103 year thing is crap. That has nothing to do with the current team or future teams. It’s called rebuilding, being smart, and staying patient.
by Bad Midget on Dec 19, 2010 6:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
OK...explain this...
why is it WRONG to get a player LIKE A-Gon and sign him to an extension so he’ll ALREADY be here when this team does contend? They spent $10M frickin’ dollars on Pena when A-Gon won’t even make 6. Yeah…he’s gonna demand a boatload of jack after next year, but, he’s someone this team needed and passed on him. Chicago is a big market town, right? It sure is…on the south side.
Can this off season get any worse?
by Easy Ed on Dec 19, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
So go become a White Sox fan.
Honestly, what the hell would happen here if Hendry cleared the farm to get A-Gon and we WEREN’T able to sign him to an extension? Al would have to lock the ability to create new posts…
What if Boston ISN’T able to resign Gonzalez? Doesn’t that put the Cubs in the best position possible? The chance to sign him without having to give up top flight talent that rips our farm to pieces?
The team is working on building from within, and you can’t do that by trading for a Cy Young pitcher or a star 1B with 1-2 years left on their contract HOPING that they’ll sign for the future. Everyone who is ripping on the team and Hendry now better damn well come back and praise him should neither Greinke or A-Gon get extensions and hit the market in 2011 and 2012 respectively.
by bdlugz on Dec 20, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Concerning Gonzalez
This farm system has a severe lack of power and corner position players, and that’s exactly the role he’d fill. I’d rather HOPE the Cubs can sign one of the best 1b to an extension than HOPE all these young prospects pan out. No one’s saying the Cubs should be throwing away prospects for middling major league players. But I sure as hell wouldn’t criticize Hendry for acquiring one of the best hitters in the game.
GM's are in charge of Managers, not the other way around.
Nobody woulda made the trade w/o resigning him...
It’s been reported by multiple people that Bostong has resigned him but are waiting until next season. Something to do with payroll/taxes or something.
by cubsluver22 on Dec 21, 2010 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
there are links on both side of that fence
but here are two about waiting
Five Cuts: Waiting on Gonzalez extension smart move by Red Sox
Report: The Red Sox have a tentative contract extension in place for Adrian Gonzalez
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Not sure about the Boston part.
But the Cubs wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have made the trade without a contract extension in place.
if they had one in place, waiting until 2011 with the new tax laws
is a bonus for the team, but that is IF there is one in place, there are a lot of links on both sides of that fence
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
OK…explain this…
why is it WRONG to get a player LIKE A-Gon and sign him to an extension so he’ll ALREADY be here when this team does contend?
Never said it was wrong to get him…… IF he signs an extension. But that’s a hell of a risk. Sacrificing future assets hoping Adrian Gonzalez comes here and likes it so much he wants to spend another five years here is insane to me.
If you can sign him as a free agent, that would be great. I just don’t see any reason to take the risk by trading for him and hoping he signs an extension. I’d rather just wait towards free agency.
Unless he agrees to an extenstion, don't make the trade.
It’s that simple.
plus
once we’re in the second week in June and the Cubs are ten games under five hundred we’ll be hearing about him wanting out.
Rebuilding teasm
Don’t go out and give big 1 year deals to .197 hitters and backload half the salary.
by cubsluver22 on Dec 20, 2010 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
OK, how about the .320 OBP - that was a real snappy number
But having an RBI guy in your lineup who gets a total of 97 hits is not a good thing. Tampa could bury Pena in 7th – the Cubs better hope he rebounds.
Pena was injured most of last year.
He’s healthy now. I don’t see any reason he can’t make a comeback.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i heard that on MLB Network as well
when they talk about the Cubs and Pena, everyone seems to believe he will return to normal this season due to being hurt the majority of last season. I sure hope so, and only time will tell
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
you Bash and Nitpick....
Almost every player we fail to get or suggest. A player we have or are getting that gets nitpicked, you find every reason in the world to defend them and Hendry.
by cubsluver22 on Dec 21, 2010 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
Here is what i think...
Grienke is a great pitcher with lots of talent. The Cubs have not epically failed with Pena and Wood i think they were okay moves. Heck Lee and Pena are possibly a wash at worst with stellar D and a potentially powerful bat. Woody looked great at the the end of the season. I AM pissed that the Ricketts don’t have enough money to spend but I feel that the Brewers are a lot like the Cubs in that good pitchers go there and somehow end up under performing. I am predicting Grienke goes 8-6 with between 4-5 ERA.
He will not produce like he did in his Cy Young year.
PS, the “bored with KC” comment was pretty uninsightful.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 21, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
What good pitchers have gone to Milwaukee and underperformed?
The only “good” pitcher they have acquired recently was Sabathia and he was lights out there.
Wolf is a slightly above average pitcher and that’s basically what he was last year. Capuano, Suppan etc. were never very good to begin with.
All of those pitchers had good years prior to Milwaukee.
Suppan had good years and Wolf was good before Milwaukee.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 21, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
You'd be singing a different tune...
If Hendry had made the same deal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just North of Wrigley Field
by jameslcrockett on Dec 19, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Tim I don't remember if you're here in KC like I am...
…but everything I’m reading/listening to says the Royals got looted.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Not in KC, but...
…I think that’s a pessimistic assessment. Escobar has a lot of talent, and apparently one of the two pitchers has a very, very high ceiling.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Royals were robbed
Escobar doesn’t impress me offensively at all. I guess that is what happens when the GM focuses on positions and not the best talent. I’m sure the Rangers could have given more talent.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Not so fast
A lot of analyses coming out makes it sound like the Royals did fine. Here is one
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5935920
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 19, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
That's a minority opinion
Seems like Crasnick is lauding Moore for filling holes at SS and CF. Most other people are pointing out that it was foolish for him to try to use Greinke to fill holes rather than add the most overall talent. If Moore didn’t think the Rangers (the best farm system in baseball) matched up, then I’m not sure what to say.
I forget and I'm too lazy
to look up the name of the logical fallacy that a majority creates correctness. The “equivalent” pieces that the Rangers fans have suggested relied on trashing the prospects they got.
It's called appeal to authority
Crasnick could be right, but honestly I have never really been very impressed with his work. I’ll take the word of prospects gurus on the quality of the players that the Brewers gave up over Crasnick’s.
Rangers?
Not to completely go OT, but it’s arguable as to whether they are even in the top 5 right now. The Royals had the best farm before the trade even happened, and it wasn’t close. After this deal, their system is already being called the best ever seen.
Tampa Bay is likely to bet he most loaded
After they collect the draft picks they will have this year because they already have a top system.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 20, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think I can take this post seriously...
…G-day?
C’mon. I’ll believe it when Grienke proves that he’s not a head case. I’ll put him at 12-14 W with a high 3 ERA. I personally think Gallardo is the better pitcher in that rotation.
Annos Catuli. Every Year.
by OldStyle_and_Ivy on Dec 19, 2010 11:54 AM CST reply actions
Woo-hooo! Let's all overreact!
DOOMED! Grienke is going to go 35-0! He is flawless. Every pitch nips the outside corner, ala Greg Maddux. And ever pitch has ridiculous velocity, ala a ball being shot from a howitzer. He inspires his offense. In fact, he will be the offense. He is Superman, and he knows what is happening. I understand MLB is going to just give the Brewers their own division, (the Selig) since there is simply no point in other teams even trying to compete with them.
Engrave the trophy. Get the rings made. Brewers have won it all. And I am pretty sure it is Hendry’s fault.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
by Ross on Dec 19, 2010 1:24 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
i would say no
seeing as no one said Wood puts us over the top and WS contention for this season or any other. They were happy to see someone that is a fan favorite return, and having a true leader in the clubhouse back.
Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
Agreed
Kerry Wood is not a savior. However, the positive affect that he might have Cashner and some of the other young pitchers is encouraging.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say, "Wait, what the hell are you talking about?"
it pisses me off to try to even compare
The brewers trading for a pitcher with Ron santo passing…
Stupidity
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 2:19 PM CST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
+1
Agreed. Thought that part was a tad unnecessary
by thebluecrew1908 on Dec 19, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever.
It was an indirect comparison.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
It was wrong headed on so many levels
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
And I said...
…“might be.”
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
but its no where even freaking close!
It’s a stupid thing to say, no matter what defense you want to put out there.
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 3:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's a stupid thing...
…for you to be arguing about. Hyperbole is the currency of sports. If you can’t handle it, well…
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
well, what?
How about if I said to you that I think the cubs missing out on a-gon is about as bad as Timlacy losing a loved one. It’s a silly thing to say…and pretty disrespectful. You may not, but I bet a lot do.
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 3:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Are you Ron Santo's son or a family member?
You’re taking this a bit too personally. I’m sorry for your loss, but my comparison was off-hand. …Also, it was in the spirit of Ron’s fan side—-he would’ve been sorry to have seen an in-division competitor strengthened radically. Again, get over yourself.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
your the one that made a ridiculous post...
And are relentlessly defending it…
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 3:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not defending the entire post.
I’m only defending your accusation that I’ve somehow sullied the memory of superfan—the ever emotional—-Ron Santo. If anything, my post lives in his tradition more than your second-hand defensive snark.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Also, I don't think you realize...
…how good Greinke is. Perhaps Al’s comments above, downplaying Greinke’s potential excellence, have convinced you this isn’t a big deal within the division. It is.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
ok...i understand where your coming from...
Hopefully you understand my point (not asking you to accept it)
But I can settle with agreeing to disagree…
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 4:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The fanpost was deleted while I was responding to you
Just wanted to say that on that point I can agree with you. I have long been a fan and admirer of Zach Greinke’s. It always annoyed me when people would comment on what he couldn’t do because of his social anxieties, as I suffer from similar problems. Not to mention, I think we all remember how dominant Sabathia was when he came to MIL, and that was only half a season. However, I am not ready to crown the Brewers just yet, though I do believe this pushes them from average to above-average.
by thebluecrew1908 on Dec 19, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
in that thread, i also said...
that the brewers have had a TOR ace before…and didnt run away with anything. (Sheets, when he was still good.)
Prince Fielder most likely will not be there too much longer. How much longer will Braun be there? their other good pitchers? how lng can the brewers afford them? im already hearing rumors that they might even trade fielder THIS offseason. i HIGHLY doubt they do it now though, after getting Grienke.
do i think grienke is the real deal? Big, Fat, YES! am i scared of the brewers for years and years to come? no.
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
im sorry, i worded it wrong...
i looked for the article to no avail…it was an espn article. it was merely speculation, with no probably no bearing behind it. sorry to confuse, or give you heart arithmea. if i find it, ill post it here.
I just want to win...
by bilbosbuttons on Dec 19, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
No worries
I think there is almost no chance of him being traded. A big part of trading away prospects is to take a shot while they have Fielder.
And please don't crown Grienke CC Sabathia...
He is not that good. You Grienke lovers are way too juiced over him. He is going to a sub par rotation so even if he DOES go 35-0, he will likely be offset by the likes of Randy Wolf and Co.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 21, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
It's not subpar anymore
Gallardo, Greinke, Marcum and Wolf is an excellent 1-2-3-4. They can plug in Narveson or Capuano and be ok at the 5 spot.
Gallardo has the stuff but can't carry the rotation.
Grienke is a very good pitcher, Marcum has the potential to be Randy Wolf of 2010 an then there is Wolf. My opinion is this rotation leaves a lot to be desired. Certainly comparable to the Cubs rotation which also leaves a lot to be desired IMO.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 21, 2010 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Trying to keep track
Greinke → 4/5 ERA
Marcum → 4/5 ERA
Wolf → 4/5 ERA
You might as well go for it. Where do you have Gallardo and Narveson? And how do you see the bullpen?
I think you're overrating Greinke tremendously
So there.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
I agree with you.
He’s good, but he’s no savior.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Good for the Brewers. Nice job.
Why is everyone all “the sky is falling?” Geez… we’re not expecting to compete in 2011 anyway. Get over it.
I’d much rather see the Brewers make a run at it, while they still have Fielder, and bury the Cardinals in hopes that Pujols leaves in free agency,
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
When the Reds win the division again
And Cardinals plus Brewers end the season only a few games over .500 try to remember how some of you freaked out over this.
*Somehow I still want to believe Cubs will do the unthinkable and mesh beyond expectations.
Why do you put the Reds...
…so far above the Cards and Brewers?
Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!
Well last year Cardinals seemed to be clear cut division winners
And they dissapointed their expectations. They had two front of the line starters and Holliday plus one of the best players out there in Pujols.
I don’t see Brewers any better than that. Yes they’ve improved pitching but I don’t see them as serious contenders, just a team scratching over .500. I could be wrong.
When it comes to the reds, they haven’t changed their team too much. They also have great team chemistry. Barring any serious injuries I just see them being the team to beat for another couple years.
And the Brewers
At least the Cards and Astros have to face Greinke the same number of times
Still have to face Carpenter and Wainwright as the Cubs do……….so what’s your point?
Why are peeps getting their “knickers all in a twist” over Greinke to the Brewers……..sheesh.
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