Projections for the Cubs Line Up
***Note - These are statistical projections that are intended as general guidlines, not gospel. So many variables come into play such as playingtime, injury, etc. The numbers set about are based on past performance and future projection.
I'm writing this piece to take a look at what type of production the Cubs roster could produce. The numbers are taken from Ron Shandler's Baseball Forcaster. Over the past 3 years I have found these projections to be fairly accurate. Of coarse this is not fool proof. What I have found is that in general it is a good starting point when evaluating players. Are these numbers always accurate? Of coarse not but I have found that Shandler does a real good job at giving you a solid starting point and he does a great job picking potential breakout players as well as identifying players that will not match a past year's production.
Please take this post for what it is. Nothing more then a starting point of what we may be able to expect. I find Ron Shandler's projections to be far more accurate then say Bill James. Is he dead wrong sometimes? Absolutely but sometimes things cannot be forseen such as injury's, trades, and playingtime. And sometimes a player such as Pablo Sandoval just doesn't produce. These numbers are suposed to be taken in a vaccum. For example he projects Adrian Beltre's numbers yet he has yet to sign anywhere and as we all know park/league can affect a player's numbers. So agian take these number's with a grain of salt.
POS. NAME AB AVG/OBP/SLG HR RBI SB
C. Goe Soto 402 276/374/496 20 68 0
1B. Carlos Pena 434 235/355/475 28 82 4
2B. Blake Dewitt/ 409 252/320/366 6 46 3
Jeff Baker 226 279/334/432 5 26 2
3B. Aramis Ramirez 515 285/343/505 27 91 0
SS. Starlin Castro 521 286/329/400 3 54 17
RF. Tyler Colvin/ 409 254/298/466 19 56 6
Kosuke Fukudome 386 277/387/449 12 48 7
CF. Marlon Byrd 529 285/331/434 13 69 6
LF. Alfonso Soriano 502 267/325/496 25 74 5
Couple things to point out here. Colvin in his player notes is said to have a potential upside of 30HR/15SB. Not sure I buy this but I guess it's not completely out of the question. His 1st half hr/f of 30% was in no way sustainable but his 2nd half of 13% is very solid for a 20 HR type hitter and is very much sustainable and probably will settle a bit higher.
Soto's stats could surge if he could somehow get another 100 ABs.
Castro's 3 HR seem low to me. It may not all come this year but I feel those 2b (31) will start to turn into some more HR. I think for sure by 2012 he should be good for 15 HR annually. He's not the speed guy that Shandler thinks he is. After watching him this past year his speed is not plus as Baseball America suggested coming into this year but more slightly above average and probably just ends up at average as he matures.
A healthy Pena could very much match those stats and I think we'd all be happy with that. Don't count out a 30+ HR season.
FWIW - MLE's are Major League Equivelnce. Something that Bill James came up with in 1985. It's not a perfect stat but does have some value. So here is Robinson Chirinos MLE's. His stats are pretty impressive considering looking up and down the list there is a lot of sub 250 avg.
319 AB 268/322/464 13 HR 50 RBI.
So discuss the projections. I'll probably do the pitchers version in the next few days.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Not terrible...
…but I think Pena will hit a lot closer to .255 than .235. I think Ramirez should be good for a.360 obp, I think Geo will get closer to 80 RBI (I’m guessing Quade might bat him a little higher if he’s producing like he did last year… maybe 6-7th depending on the lineup) and I think both Ramirez and Pena will hit 30+ HR.
Perhaps that is a little optimistic, but if they’re all healthy (a big if, sure) then I think Ramirez and Pena will be quite the power punch in the middle of the lineup.
Where I start to wonder is Colvin… can he repeat and improve on his 2010 season?
"... we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a certain number of times, and a very small number, really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, some afternoon that's so deeply a part of your being that you can't even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four or five times more. perhaps not even that. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps twenty. And yet it all seems limitless." - Paul Bowles
by Ryan at Cubshub on Dec 31, 2010 8:50 AM CST reply actions
Not good either
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 1, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Lineup?
Colvin/Dome
Castro
Pena
Ramirez
Byrd
Soriano
Soto
Dewitt/Baker
or
Castro
Byrd
Pena
Ramirez
Soto
Soriano
Colvin/Dome
Dewiit/Baker
No good leadoff options
but Colvin should not leadoff. He is a 6 or 7 hitter. The Cubs’ best option is Fukudome or go unconventional with Byrd.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
I like the numbers for Ramirez and Kosuke.
I understand the thinking that Castro’s numbers might slightly dip in his second year, but all he’s done is improve and exceed expectations at every level. I expect him to take another step forward this season.
and wouldn’t it be great if Colvin somehow did live up to that 30 HR upside, it could give the lineup a huge boost.
The most important number with Ramirez is AB's.
The Cubs absolutely need 500+ AB’s from him or the season will be even uglier.
John Grabow: $4.8 million in 2011.
Agreed.
His last truly healthy season was 2008. It’s clear that he can put up a 900+ OPS when healthy. If he could replicate that 2008 season, that’d be fine with me.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ramirez having a big year like 2008 and someone might be willing to trade for him
even with the option year.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
i think aram will have a big year...(contract year)
i think pena will have a pretty decent year also…
I just want to win...
my optimal lineups
anything where Soto isn’t hitting 3-5th is a travesty.
vs RHP
Fukudome
Castro
Soto
Pena
Ramirez
Soriano/Colvin
Byrd
Dewitt
P
vs. LHP
Baker
Castro
Soto
Ramirez
Pena
Soriano
Byrd
Colvin
P
I’m expecting more of a 3 man OF rotation at the corner spots between Kosuke, Soriano, and Colvin where they each get 400 AB’s or so. On days where Fukudome is off, the leadoff position becomes a disaster… I suppose I would actually consider leading off Soriano as opposed to Colvin or shifting Castro up and everyone else accordingly, but there are no great solutions there
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 31, 2010 10:10 AM CST reply actions
Re: Soto
He absolutely needs to be in the heart of the lineup if he is hitting near these projections.
According to those numbers he will be one of the top OPS guys in the lineup. Having that production in the 6,7,8 spot is a waste.
Byrd batting 7th?
I’d rather drop Soriano down there. But I agree with your assessment of Soto needing to be in the heart of the order with Ramirez and Pena. The leadoff situation this year is going to be tough, to say the least. Castro could get there eventually, but I’m not sure he’s ready for that yet. Of course, I didn’t think he would be ready for the big leagues when they rushed him up, so what the hell do I know?
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
FWIW
based on the projections Byrd is supposed to be the 6th/7th best hitter in the lineup
his projected .765 OPS is only stronger than Castro/DeWitt and in line with Colvin. If there’s consensus suggesting Castro is our future and should be hitting #2, then Byrd/Colvin/Soriano start to become obvious candidates for 6/7 slots
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 31, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
why I think if/when Fukudome is moved why Byrd becomes the platoon player with BJackson up
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
I think the Cubs are hoping to bring BJackson up as "the guy" in centerfield.
Maybe you were suggesting a Colvin/Byrd platoon, I’m not sure. But I don’t think we want the Cubs to bring Jackson up and platoon him.
by mic on Jan 2, 2011 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Byrd
Seemed to do well in the 2 hole last season. He took quite a few pitches and a made good contact. Castro seems to be the 2 hole hitter of the future. I guess is will all hinge on who Quade makes the leadoff hitter.
by cubsluver22 on Dec 31, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
pretty small sample size
just 50 PA’s out of the 2 hole last year
for his career he’s got a .707 OPS out of that spot, albeit again small samples (160 PA’s overall)
i’m also not a big believer that where a guy hits in the lineup changes his skillset very much. The only difference would be in the 8 hole in the NL where guys will get pitched around more
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 31, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
a truly optimal lineup would have your 'best overall hitter'
in the 2 hole; that’s soto. so i’d look something more like:
Dome
Soto
Castro
Ramirez
Pena
Soriano
Byrd
Dewitt
of course this will never happen
Castro batting 3rd
No way, he doesn’t have nearly enough power. I always thought the 3 hole was wear the best overall hitter typically bats not the 2 hole.
I’d flip Soto and Casto. I actually like DCFs lineup above
as it happens often in baseball, conventional wisdom is wrong
however, in the end it really doesn’t matter all that much. here’s the top three optimized lineups based on the OP’s projected numbers:
Runs per Game 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
4.921 dome soto soriano pena ramirez castro dewitt byrd
4.921 dome soto byrd pena ramirez castro dewitt soriano
4.920 dome soto ramirez pena soriano castro dewitt byrd
it seems like these projections are highly optimistic; 4.92 runs/game is a pretty big number …
that's accurate
although i’d argue the .15 runs/game you give up by having Castro hit 2nd are worth the extra 70-115 PA’s of development by hitting 2nd as opposed to 6th-8th
especially in a year where the 24 runs projected difference don’t amount to very much difference in standings
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 2, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Well, when it comes to developing young players ...
shouldn’t Colvin be getting some playing time?
thus the problem with Marlon Byrd....
because Fukudome is really the only legitimate leadoff option we have against RHP
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 2, 2011 8:08 PM CST up reply actions
and why my lineup
addresses this by giving Soto and Castro the most at bats (outside of the leadoff man)
huh?
your lineups have Castro hitting 6th
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on Jan 2, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
The “optimized lineup” is limited to calculating based on whatever numbers are entered. There are other factors that are involved in setting lineups. I’d say the conventional wisdom, that you can just use a lineup optimizer, is wrong.
i was specifically addressing the magicblue's
post saying you want your best overall hitter in the 3 hole. this has been proven to not be optimal in the long run; this is based on a lot of research with decades worth of batting data. there isn’t anything counterintuitive about the model btw: OBP is critical at the leadoff spot, you want your ‘best overall hitter’ to get as many ABs as possible, and your best power guys to hit with men on base
I can’t even imagine the debate on what the best overall hitter is, but I don’t buy the idea that it has been proven. If the research is guys like tango doing a mathematical analysis, I personally wouldn’t value it as it only deals with the crudest of data.
agreed
it would not take into account that there was a time where a ball bounced once and then over a fence it was a HR not a double (for example). Too many things like that to take into account to be able to do so accurately
Chronologically inept since 2060
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A: Ditka
not hard
best hitter = best OPS. read this and you’ll find there’s nothing ‘crude’ about the analysis: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/story/2006/2/12/133645/296
Even in that article, the “best” hitter is variable. I’d call the analysis crude in that it is limited and assumes identical performance by players regardless of position in the lineup.
as well they should...
unless you’ve found a correlation between OBP and SLG for the same players at different slots in the lineup over several hundred plate appearances.
Based on those numbers
we would have the top offense in the NL.
by californiachicagoan on Jan 3, 2011 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
Based on his second half, Byrd 7th seems about right
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Jan 1, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
I like the idea of Baker in the leadoff spot against LHP.
Assuming Dome doesn’t play much against lefties, we really don’t have a lot of options at the leadoff spot. Well, not a lot of good ones.
Obviously Baker is not your prototypical leadoff guy, but I’m pretty sure he knows what it means to be a leadoff hitter. I think he’d be able to adjust his approach at the plate accordingly. Now whether or not he’ll actually produce is a whole ‘nother issue, but I’d be willing to give him a chance to show me.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Middle of order could be solid
I like the middle of the line up if you healthy years from Ramirez, Pena, and Soto. Also Soriano can still be a threat batting 6th. Heres hoping for a healthy team.
Full disclosure
Not to be a shill for Shandler or anything but as a long-time Shandler reader, I should point out that Shandler himself is not a big proponent of these types of projections. He is much more intersted in the skill sets that might allow certain players to put up certain numbers while realizing projections like these have little value when you’re dealing with the unpredictable nature of the game. Shandler’s analysis of individual players and their respective skills are far more predictive than the raw numbers he offers.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
by krummy12 on Jan 1, 2011 11:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
this lineup is faulty
Where is powerhouse Koyie Hill? That guy…man…he carried the lineup in 2010 under Quade. His sheer presence in the batter’s box…his power, his hitting…your lineup doesn’t make sense!
please note the sarcasm font
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
The four-man outfield rotation seems pretty likely, at this point.
Quade will probably make a lot of decisions based on matchups and outfield defense. For instance, I doubt we’ll see a Soriano-Colvin-Kosuke outfield in San Francisco or Denver.
Levine said yesterday that the Cubs are actually looking to add a lefty bat on the bench. This is a big piece of news, if accurate, and it tells me that Colvin will get the majority of starts in right versus lefties. So, here’s that probable lineup:
Baker, Castro, Ramirez, Byrd, Soto, Pena, Soriano, Colvin
Certainly not ideal, but workable, and changeable if, say, Soriano has a bounceback year and Byrd struggles or if Colvin needs to hit higher in the order.
There won’t be one versus-righties lineup. Byrd’s defense is valuable in center, Kosuke is the best leadoff option on the team (amazingly), Soriano will get playing time because of his contract and Colvin needs to get experience at-bats against righties.
Lineup A (Soriano-Byrd-Kosuke outifield):
Kosuke, Castro, Pena, Ramirez, Soto, Soriano, Byrd, DeWitt
Pluses: OBP at the top of the order, but less balance in the middle. Decent defense.
Lineup B (Soriano-Byrd-Colvin outfield):
Castro, DeWitt, Ramirez, Pena, Soto, Colvin, Soriano, Byrd
Pluses: Good lefty-righty balance, but a lot of questions. Can Castro lead off? Can DeWitt hit second? Should Colvin hit above Soriano and Byrd?
Lineup C (Soriano-Colvin-Kosuke):
Kosuke, Castro, Pena, Ramirez, Colvin, Soto, Soriano, DeWitt
Pluses: Good balance in the lineup. But the outfield defense will be a mess.
Lineup D (Colvin-Byrd-Kosuke)
Kosuke, Castro, Pena, Ramirez, Colvin, Soto, Byrd, DeWitt
This is the lineup I’d actually prefer. Good balance AND good defense. It also puts $18 million on the bench, so it won’t actually happen very often.
There are a few other factors — Baker or Fuld getting an occasional outfield start, Barney outplaying DeWitt and/or Baker, the lefty-hitting bench player Levine mentioned, Hill getting starts, etc. Quade will also probably play hot hands in terms of lineup construction.
This makes a lot of sense matchup-wise.
I think Quade has studied this sort of thing enough to actually do it, whereas Lou said he was going to do it (outfield rotation) last year, and that lasted about two games.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As you and I have discussed off site, Al ...
I think many of Colvin’s starts against right handers will coincide with Koyie Hill (or backup catcher starts). That way, the Cubs replace Soto’s bat in the middle of the lineup with Colvin.
So, Soto-Kosuke or Hill-Colvin, with DeWitt or Castro leading off on Hill-Colvin games.
Lineup against lefties stands.
seems logical, well done
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"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot
my lineup
castro
byrd
soto
a-ram
pena
soriano
colvin
dewitt

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