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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Continuing the parade of ex-Cubs to Baltimore, D-Lee will be the Orioles' 1B in 2011, pending a physical.

over 1 year ago Alyellontoppscard_tiny Al Yellon 64 comments 0 recs  | 

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I hope he does well. It will give me a chance to see him play a few times this year.

by Grockcubs on Dec 31, 2010 4:09 PM CST reply actions  

I hope he gets his mojo back and has a great year.

The best part of this is that it leaves Boras’ client LaRoche in a far weaker bargaining position. Good luck on a 3 year deal.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Dec 31, 2010 4:18 PM CST reply actions  

Carlos Pena

is the one that is represented by Scott Boras. LaRoche’s agent is Mike Milchin.

And FWIW, LaRoche already had an offer for 3 years from the Orioles and turned it down.

He currently is consider a 2 year deal for more $$ per year from the Nationals.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 5:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder why the Nationals are bothering with a two year offer.

Doesn’t seem like there is much demand for LaRoche apart from them.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 2, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

The offer was made

before the Orioles signed Lee. In fact, indications are the Orioles preferred LaRoche but got tired of waiting for him to make a decision, so they turned to Lee.

Besides, why not offer 2 years? He is 4+ years younger than Lee.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Because there's no competition for his services.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 2, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Or maybe

they feel honor bound to stand behind their previous offer?

Or perhaps they feel that LaRoche is capable of putting up some decent numbers and it would actually work to their advantage to have him under a cost controlled contract for more than 1 yr?

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

If so...

… why not make it an option year that vests with easily makeable incentives?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 2, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, I don't think low balling LaRoche

like that is a good approach. It really isn’t true that there are no other options. The Padres, Blue Jays and even the Diamondbacks are lacking proven 1st baseman at this point.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe not.

But he’s not likely to go back to Arizona and it doesn’t seem as if Toronto and San Diego are interested.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 2, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's a good summation from the Boston Globe

“Earlier today, the Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo speculated that the Nats may eventually cave into LaRoche’s demands, but what if GM Mike Rizzo and his staff decide to stand their ground? LaRoche could conceivably sign yet another one-year deal somewhere and hope to cash in on a strong season, or sign a two-year deal with a team more apt to contend in the near future. Let’s look at some possibilities:

Rays: Tampa Bay lost Carlos Pena to free agency, and is currently looking to the likes of Dan Johnson as an option for both first base and DH. The Rays may not be able to offer the salary LaRoche would prefer, but their pitching staff and young core offer a shot at contention.

Rangers: Mitch Moreland and Chris Davis are no sure things as first base options, and Texas offers one of the best environments for a slugger to build up some value on a short-term deal while also offering a chance to contend.

Padres: While the spacious confines of Petco Park represent the opposite situation of those in Texas, LaRoche is a native of southern California. The Pads added Brad Hawpe earlier this offseason, but he carries plenty of question marks as a first baseman. If LaRoche’s price drops enough, it’s not unthinkable to see a match.

Mariners, Braves: Both clubs have big-time prospects set to take over at first base in Justin Smoak and Freddie Freeman, respectively. If either club is hesitant about their young options though (Freeman is just 21 years old, Smoak is 24), LaRoche could represent a solid stopgap.

When it’s all said and done, none of these teams are an ideal match; the Nationals represent the best fit for the 31-year-old LaRoche. Still, he and his agents at SFX could potentially drum up enough competition to either force the Nationals into a three-year commitment or find work elsewhere should the Nats hold their ground."

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

bet of luck to one of the classiest players to wear a Cubs uniform

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 31, 2010 4:27 PM CST reply actions  

Glad to see him with an AL team

Now I can root for him to do well personally for 162 games instead of having to root against him a few times per year.

Harry Caray: Marshall is going back to LA to get cocaine for his injured foot.
Steve Stone: Harry, that’s Novocaine.

by Julio Zuleta's Voodoo on Dec 31, 2010 4:42 PM CST reply actions  

Ten bucks says ...

Kosuke is starting in right at Camden Yards on Opening Day 2012.

by elgato on Dec 31, 2010 4:42 PM CST reply actions  

along with Ramirez

to third…Soriano in 2015 and Chirinos after we get Roberts

by hansman1982 on Dec 31, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions  

According to their web site...

…the Orioles currently have only 36 players on their 40-man roster, yet as of 6:24 ET, they still have not yet added Lee. What’s up with that? I don’t believe this “pending physical” stuff one minute. There must be something more to it than that. Al, Josh, hansman1982?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 31, 2010 5:28 PM CST reply actions  

Roster Gate Part 2 day 1

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 31, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

You know...

…. using the current definition of the 40-man roster, which clearly can accomodate at least 41 players, the Orioles should be able to add Lee and at least four more players.

I am going to see if I can get an Orioles media relations person to vouch for this, including a vial of blood to be posted on the sidebar of this site for Jessica’s approval. But then, it’s a holiday weekend, so who knows if I’ll hear back from them.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 31, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

if you dont hear back

you know for sure there is some tomfoolery going on

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Dec 31, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Tom Foolery.

I think he played for the Orioles, too.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Dec 31, 2010 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hope Lee wins AL MVP!

"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
"My favorite food is Macaroni and Cheese, from the blue box." Geovany Soto
"They played like son of a guns......lord have mercy." Mike Quade

by Cubbiegoon on Dec 31, 2010 5:34 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed.

Who’s “Hope Lee”?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 3, 2011 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

im surprised

we gave up on d lee. im sure he has some good baseball left in him. what was better than lee/ramirez?

by NOMAR on Dec 31, 2010 7:36 PM CST reply actions  

"what was better than lee/ramirez"?

Plenty in 2010.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Jan 1, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Not Wiggington/Atkins for the O's

Last year they combined to hit 11 HR with a .625 OPS at 1B for Baltimore. Lee should surpass this with a fairly lousy season.

"I'd rather hit home runs you don't have to run as hard." -- Dave Kingman

by BucknerKongCardenal on Jan 1, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Are we going 1st/3rd combos?

Banks/Santo? Cavaretta/Hack? Steinfeldt/Chance? Stairs/Mueller? Choi/Bellhorn?

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Jan 1, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Finally

Finally Derek gets to share a half the infield with Brian ROberts!

Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.

by puckishcubsfan on Jan 1, 2011 1:01 AM CST reply actions  

Good grief...

Almost 10 Million for Derek Lee? These contracts are getting worse and worse.

by cubsluver22 on Jan 1, 2011 4:46 AM CST reply actions  

What would you do?

If you HAD to pick? Pena for one year at $10M or Lee for one year at $8-10M?

"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008

by BeerCub on Jan 1, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

None of the above?

"It's important in life to not give a shit. It can help you a lot." - George Carlin

by bluemagic9 on Jan 2, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

well, if the Cubs were going to go with DLee

and had not traded him, they would have had to resign him for more than $10m

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

I forgot who posted it, but they corrected me that you cannot

resign your own player to a big pay cut, and since DLee made $13+M last season, he would have been more than $10M to resign (of course this would have been without being traded). I got to run, i will search the link when i get home in a bit

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Because

if you want a player to take a big pay cut, he can always refuse and force you to go to arbitration…and arbitration never results in a big pay cut.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

still cannot find the comment

i think it was D98 who corrected me on it before as well, when i was suggesting the Cubs could have offered and resigned Lilly (at the time of discussion) for less than he was making currently.

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions  

However the rules have changed a bit

You can refuse to offer a player arbitration but re-sign him as an FA at whatever price the two parties agree to. Up until a few years ago, a player who was not offered arb could not re-sign with his team until I think May or June which made it worthless. This is actually why Maddux became an FA after 2003 season. He had made 14 1/2 million the previous year when he accepted the Braves offer or arb ( he did not actually go to arb, they worked the figure out)
The Braves did not want to risk arb again or pay him 11 million. My guess is that if the current rule had been in effect, Maddux would have ended his career as a Brave. He did not want to leave.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 2, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

kinda

teams can negotiate with their own FA’s up to Jan 7 and then again after May 1st

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

But, that is exactly point

if you try to get a veteran player like Lee to accept a contract with a big pay cut, there is no incentive for him to agree to it. He can just wait you out and go to arbitration. The presumption in this case is that it is a player that you do want to bring back.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The rule was changed for situations like Maddux

or others where the player was simply making far too much over their value, but a team might be willing to keep them and the player might want to stay if there was an option of a real negotiation. It was pretty clear the Cubs were moving on from Lee, but again I think it likely Maddux would have stayed with the Braves if it had been an option, especially one which gave him a chance to test the FA market. The Red Sox just re-signed Okajima under somewhat similar circumstances and I believe there have been other players who were not offered arb, but re-signed with their team. It was a bad rule, but I am glad it was in effect in 2003 because I doubt Maddux would have been a Cub again otherwise.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 2, 2011 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

it can also work against a team

example Wood and the Yankees

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions  

It did not work against the Yankees

Wood just did not want to sign with them and took less money.
Yankees could have kept Wood by offering him arb but they would have had to pay him almost 8 million based on the 20% cut rule. It gave the Yankees a chance to keep him, but again through no fault of the Yankees, he just was not interested.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 2, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Generally speaking, I believe the max pay cut a club can offer in arbitration is 20%

so assuming a $13M 2010 salary for DLee, that means the lowest the Cubs could have gone in arbitration is $10.4M.

caveat: I’m not a Doctor of Arbitration, so there may be some exceptions to that rule where in extenuating circumstances, the club could offer lower, but something tells me the MLBPA would not have allowed such fine print to ever see the light of day.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 2, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

thanks

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

ok found it
D. Maximum Salary Reduction

A Club may not tender, sign or renew a Player under reserve to the Club pursuant to Article XX(A) of this Agreement and paragraph 10(a) of the Uniform Player’s Contract to a Uniform Player’s Contract that provides a salary for Major League service that constitutes a reduction in excess of 20% of his previous year’s salary or in excess of 30% of his salary two years previous

source

so Dlee was $13,250,000 the last three years, so the least he could be offered was $10,600,000 (based on $13.250*.8)

if I am wrong feel free to correct me

Chronologically inept since 2060
Q: Why did Chuck Norris cross the road?
A: Ditka

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 2, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

But that is the starting point

the Cubs offer Lee 10.6, Lee’s agent counters with 14.5 and they go to arb and he gets 13.

by azjazzman on Jan 2, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

not quite

If they actually go to arbitration, the arbitrator picks one figure or the other – he/she doesn’t get to ‘settle’ on some middle figure.

now the two parties involved can certainly negotiate/counter/bluff all they want beforehand and even strike a deal in the hallway outside the arbitration room, but once the arbitration process begins, it’s one or the other.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 2, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

However I think the max 20% rule is in effect.

I don’t think the Cubs can offer less than 10.4 million so there is the problem.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either

by Doggie Stalker on Jan 2, 2011 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

of course it is - I never said otherwise, did I?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 2, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd pick Pena.

The Cubs finally have a left handed thumper in the lineup, Pena’s known as a good clubhouse guy and bringing back (essentially) the same lineup from 2010’s first few months would have been a mistake.

If Lee had been re-signed, the only meaningful offensive change from the team that was 51-74 under Lou would have been DeWitt at second instead of Theriot.

by elgato on Jan 2, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Pena

Easy.

I think Derrek Lee is a great guy, but he’s not a guy you’d want as a leader of a team, unless you want the team to be happy with a .500 record. The Cubs had to move on.

by jerry morales rules on Jan 3, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Best wishes to Derrek.

I hope he has a great year.

Contributing Editor, SB Nation Chicago. Please follow us on Twitter!

by daver on Jan 1, 2011 11:38 AM CST reply actions  

He'll bounce back.

Tore a ligament in his thumb on Opening Day, and drove in 80 runs and hit 19 HR’s at far less than 100%, and never complained.

He’ll hit .295 to .305, hit 25-30 HR’s, and drive in 95-110. Bank it.

Scott Bora$ is satan.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Jan 1, 2011 11:56 AM CST reply actions  

Pena was not healthy all season also

so this could be interesting to see which one has a better season

Chronologically inept since 2060
"I could be writing this crap!" -- Crow T. Robot
Me: Q: I can run but not walk. Wherever I go, thought follows close behind. What am I?
Wrigster A: Theriot

by Cubbie-Tim on Jan 1, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I've always like Derrek

and I wish him the best.

A lovely story:

One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who didn't whine, nag or bitch. That would be me....

But that was a long time ago and it was just that one day.

The end

by sue369 on Jan 1, 2011 3:25 PM CST reply actions  

Ten bucks says ...

Lee is traded in July or August again in 2011. He’ll play well enough that a contender with an infield injury will be willing to take him on as a rental.

by elgato on Jan 2, 2011 12:07 PM CST reply actions  

and by virtue of being with a new team, he's lost his 5-10 rights

so unless the O’s gave him a NTC, he’ll have to go if traded, right? Or retire, I guess.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Jan 2, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Correct.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Jan 2, 2011 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

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