Wrigley 2010 Concerts To Feature Elton John, Billy Joel And Dave Matthews Band
by Al Yellon on Feb 10, 2010 9:06 AM CST
in Chicago Cubs News
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via upload.wikimedia.org; photo by David Iliff
Reported by Fran Spielman in today's Sun-Times:
Elton John and Billy Joel will reprise last year's wildly popular concerts on July 7 -- a Wednesday night.
The Dave Matthews Band -- whose bus driver notoriously unloaded 800 pounds of human waste on a tour boat passing under the Kinzie Street bridge in 2004 -- is expected to headline Friday and Saturday night concerts in September. The dates haven't been finalized. Matthews played Wrigley in 2007.
UPDATE: Sources say no deals have yet been signed for any bands nor any specific dates for concerts at Wrigley this summer. See this comment below for further updated information, including dates.
Well. First, this means no Paul McCartney show at Wrigley, as rumored last month. The most likely dates for the DMB shows would have to be 9/10 and 9/11 -- the Cubs are on a long road trip then and don't return until 9/21, so that would give them 10 days to get the field back in shape.
Spielman's article says Ald. Tom Tunney is going to introduce an ordinance today in the City Council to provide an "exception" to the current Wrigley ordinance to allow the DMB shows. He'll have to -- the current ordinance doesn't permit night events at Wrigley on Fridays and Saturdays.
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it'll be interesting to see how much tickets are for the DMB show.
if the price was right I’d be willing to check it out.
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
For a good granstand, that's typical DMB pricelevel
if you want up close, well that’s a whole other story
Start Sean Marshall!!
Must be different in different parts of the country?
60 got me a ticket into VA pavillion last year
Start Sean Marshall!!
Field level for Billy/Elton last year was, IIRC, $250.
Same for the Police in 2008.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Unless they've jacked their tickets prices up recently...
that sounds a bit high to me.
I’ve seen them all over the NW for between $45 and $70. Though since you can see them at the Gorge for $50, paying any more than that is silly since the concert experience couldn’t compare. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yabbut.............
…………DMB isn’t setting the pricing. The Cubs will be setting the bar and historically the least expensive ticket is $90 per seat.
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra
Bands do control pricing, actually.
If i want to host a band in my venue, i make an offer to them. That offer basically shows a ticket price, and expected expenses (marketing, venue rental, lights and sound, catering, security, all of that). In general, an act will take a percentage of what is made, after expenses are recouped.
In that offer, there will a break even point (x number of tickets at x number of dollars gets us to paying off our expenses) and a gross potential (total tickets available at x number of dollars equaling how much revenue we can expect). The band will keep a percentage of that gross potential.
The venue and the performer (or, their agent) must haggle over the ticket price, getting it to the point where the performer makes what they expect for a night of work while the venue or promoter keeps their patrons and their willingness to buy at any given level in mind.
An ungreedy performer (like Phish) can say “our tickets are $50, no matter what!” if they’d like. If the venue won’t agree to it, you don’t accept the offer to play there and you go to the next venue down the line.
Plus, the venue is only taking a small percentage of whatever revenue is generated from the tickets anyways, so its less important to the venue that the ticket prices be high than it is to the performer. The venue would rather sell a ton of beer, frankly.
This is why we often call our business, promoting concerts and live entertainment, a river of nickels.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Or another headline -
Wrigleyville To Become Squaresville!
Sad that they'd bring Joel/John back
Nothing against those guys, but that was last year’s event. I wish they’d bring new acts to this every year.
In the article it said that Matthews played Wrigley in 2007. Did I miss something?
Is it possible that they’d add a fourth show though? It seems strange that there is only one show in July. I know that the neighborhood groups would not like it, but how much of a hisssy fit can they really have if Paul McCartney is the added show? Nothing in the article explicitily said that a fourth show couldn’t be added.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 10, 2010 9:28 AM CST reply actions
Yeah, I don't seem to recall the DMB at Wrigley in 2007, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
There was talk of DMB at Wrigley,
but to the best of my knowledge they never played at Wrigley.
Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air...
If I remember right
He was going to play Wrigley, but then his wife had a baby and took a hiatus from touring.
"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth
Wrong
He played Giant Stadium for Live Aid during the time they were going to play Wrigley. But instead took a month off, and continued touring.
Man, i hate those overgrown 8th grader look alike Brewer fans.
by CubbieBlue21 on Feb 11, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
The decision to bring Elton and Billy back has everythign to do with money.
When i saw Phish at Fenway, all tickets were $50, no matter how great or bad the seats. There are only so many acts that can sell Wrigley sized venues, and the country acts tend to not gouge their fans. The Face 2 Face tour can get $250 for Gold Circle seating, and in the hundreds for a whole lot of the rest of the stadium.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'd think they could have gotten that for McCartney, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh no doubt.
I was just trying to demonstrate why we’ve seen Elton and Billy repeatedly, instead of say… Rascall Flatts. Huge country generally goes to football stadiums, where they can fit an extra 10 or 20k to make up for the reasonable tickets they have to sell in the upper seats / lower price levels.
Any of the Super Bowl halftime acts since Janet’s wardrobe malfunction (McCartney, The Stones, Prince, Tom Petty, Springsteen, The Who) could probably charge similar prices to Elton / Billy. Those guys don’t all tour as prolifically though, and a lot of them prefer to stay inside. The major outdoor summer tour suspects (DMB, Warped Tour, Ozzfest, Phish, Random Pop Act Du Jour) often tend to be younger, and thus can’t charge upwards of $200 for a seat. Plus, the neighborhood probably wouldn’t be as happy to see the next Fall Out Boy / Blink 182 / T-Pain or No Doubt / Paramore tour.
Rule out the young guys (too obnoxious for Wrigleyville), the country guys (too cheap to make the Ricketts them mad ducats), and the fossils who don’t like to let their skin be exposed to outdoor air, and you haven’t got a lot left.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I get that
But like Al said, McCartney would have brought in that ticket price as well.
I thought I remember hearing a few years ago that the Cubs made about $4M per Buffet show. Those tix were under $100. I’m sure they would make at least 2x that amount with Joel/John or McCartney.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 10, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
It doesn't like you are thinking.
Big acts generally get paid on percentages. This is often why you see so many fees on your tickets – people blame Ticketmaster, but really most of that goes back to the venue or the promoter, but because its a ‘fee’, the act doesn’t have a claim to a percentage of it.
A $2.50 facility fee at 40,000 fans brings in another $100k. In general, i would estimate Ticketmaster takes somewhere $2 (a minimum) and 1/3rd of the “fees” you see on any given ticket. If fees are $15, expect the venue to pocket $10 of that. Selling out 40k fans, you’ve got $400,000!
Anyways, most big, arena level or larger acts get about 90% of the door, and often even more. U2 supposedly gets as much as 97%.
Lets say an act gets 40,000 tickets sold at $100 bucks and the Cubs get to keep 10%… cool, that’s $400,000. Lets say an act the next night sells the same numbers, but its tickets are $50…. Cubs get $200,000. If we were talking about Riot’s contract here, we’d be claiming the difference in those numbers was nothing.
When you look at it that way, the ticketing revenue is actually far less important than the fees, beer and concessions. A venue usually takes 10 – 20% of merch revenue as well, with the exception of recorded music (CDs or vinyl sold).
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Clarification...
… what i was trying to say is often the ticket price isn’t the most important deciding factor in if a venue will make money from an act, because an act that can get $250 a ticket likely commands 90 plus percent of ticket revenue anyways.
Now, it stands to reason that fans that can afford $250 tickets can afford $30 tees and $6 beers as well, but that isn’t always the case… parents forking over big bucks for Jonas Brothers tickets aren’t as valuable as parrot heads forking over big bucks for Buffett tickets, because the Buffett crowd will drink beer and buy munchies all night.
Additionally, landing an act in your venue on a Friday or Saturday night is worth far more than other evenings, as people will spend more and drink more on those evenings.
I worked both of the Billy / Elton shows last year, and had been involved in two others before that at different venues, and trust me, those cougars drink. I wouldn’t be surprised if $4 million was accurate as far as revenue from a concert for Wrigley, but ticket pricing has far less to do with it than you’d assume. Country acts have appeal to promoters, in spite of their low ticket prices and high guarantees, because their fans spend once they are in the venue.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
The Wrigleyville neighbors are NOT going to like this.
The DMB is going to be the highest Wrigley’s ever gotten.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
If thats the case...
… they should be happy they avoided the rumored Phish dates.
I chuckled at the thought of dudes in shady vans trying to sell nitrous balloons on Waveland.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Have you ever seen Wrigley Field?
Have you ever seen Wrigley Field……. on weed?
Oh, there’s some crazy shit, man. There’s a dude in the bushes. Has he got a gun? I dunno! RED TEAM GO, RED TEAM GO.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
"The DMB is going to be the highest Wrigley’s ever gotten."
Obviously spoken by someone who was not in the bleachers in the 1970s.
Fran Spielman
“Matthews played Wrigley in 2007.” He did? That is news to me. If memory serves me correctly there were no concerts at Wrigley in 2007.
by cubssouvenirman on Feb 10, 2010 9:43 AM CST reply actions
and
I am very sure that, as of this date, the DMB has never played a concert at Wrigley Field.
by cubssouvenirman on Feb 10, 2010 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
They were supposed to play in 2007
But Dave Matthews had a kid on the way, and the dates they were supposed to play went along with when his wife was gonna have the kid. So they ended up shelving that show and played Giant Stadium for Live Aid instead.
Man, i hate those overgrown 8th grader look alike Brewer fans.
by CubbieBlue21 on Feb 10, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
The Police
Were the Police shows in 2008?
by cubssouvenirman on Feb 10, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Can't be Sept 10/11
DMB has concerts already scheduled for those dates…
09/10 WOODLANDS, TX
09/11 DALLAS, TX
The last Summer tour date is the 15th, so maybe Sept 17/18?
Why aren't The Who lined up for Wrigley?
kidding.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
I'm an old Who fan
but The Who are dead. An acoustic Townshend/Daltry concert might be interesting, but it’s not The Who, no matter what they say.
But the thing is, are Billy Joel and Elton John any less dead? And Billy Joel sucked when he was alive. Is Zombie Billy any better?
And I’ve never gotten the appeal of the Dave Matthews Band. But they certainly aren’t on the Billy Joel level of suckiness.
by Josh Timmers on Feb 10, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
Hit and miss.....
I am excited about DMB. Living close to the park, it should make for a great weekend of pre concert parties.
I don’t get Elton and Billy. I did not see them last year and will not see them this summer. With money being tight I would think the best option would be booking a band who has not just played the venue. This does not makes sense…….
by timeforachange2009 on Feb 10, 2010 10:38 AM CST reply actions
Gotta get Pearl Jam. Eddie sings so much better outta the press box. If only they were touring this summer.
by Dunston12 on Feb 10, 2010 10:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Just had them at the UC last August... and they did Lolla in 2007.
I’m not sure they can keep hitting a market like Elton and Billy can.
Speaking of Lolla… expect the Beastie Boys to make good on last years cancellation, a reunited Soundgarden, and The Flaming Lips (who for sure will be there, but i suspect will be a headliner and may be covering something epic like they are at Bonnaroo).
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Jay-Z.
I also believe Phoenix is for sure.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
this world!
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Note!
Have posted this as an update on the front page:
Sources say no deals have yet been signed for any bands nor any specific dates for concerts at Wrigley this summer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, neither of these acts turn my crank...
…but if the shows help the Cubs and don’t damage the playing field, by all means enjoy.
Phish
Phish at Wrigley Field would have been epic!
DMB and Joel/John, not so much……
Would have loved to have seen Phish there
They are so much better at outdoor venues
DMB will be good though
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
by Musicdude10 on Feb 10, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
"They are so much better at outdoor venues"
I completely disagree. The outdoor shows are a ton of fun, but it’s a different experience altogether. The indoor shows reach a different level of intensity.
Case and point
The New Years run and the 1st 3 shows they played last year.
Man, i hate those overgrown 8th grader look alike Brewer fans.
by CubbieBlue21 on Feb 11, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
NITPICKING ALERT
I’m pretty sure the picture is a few years old, they have a new sax player. LeRoi Moore is the man who is pictured on the right and he died in 2008. Their new album “Big Whiskey and the Groogrux King” is dedicated to him and I think GrooGrux King is a direct reference to him
"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher
The photo is from 2005, IIRC.
It was the best looking photo I could find on Wikimedia Commons, which provides royalty-free photos available to post.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Roi is blasting notes in heaven yes
i approve of the picture. Anything with roi
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
So pumped for DMB!!!!
Having gone to 33 shows and 8 coming up this summer before this make it 10!!!! I am going to have an awesome september with dmb @ the gorge followed by DMB @ Wrigley. Also seeing them at NAts park…So happy.
Good picture choice btw…. RIP Roi
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
The Gorge is the best venue...
I’ve ever been to (and the first place I ever saw a big concert). I wish I could go, but I’ll probably be back in DC at that point. :(
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that blizzard looks ridiculous.
I’ve been teasing all my friends back there about it, since it’s been sunny and 50 here. :) (here’s hoping Karma doesn’t kick in).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Are you going for reserved seats?
Or the lawn?
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Oftentimes yeah.
I was going to suggest the tiers (inside that walkway you see in the pic, behind the soundbooths). You’re cut off from a lot of riff-raff. They run a good length of the bowl and are only deep enough for a couple blankets, so it’s much more intimate and you don’t have people tripping over you. Plus each tier gives you an unobstructed view. It’s always a race to get there when the gates open, but it’s worth it.
At the Gorge, it’s great to move back and sit up high early in the concert though just to get the views. Hearing DMB with that vista and sky is fantastic.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
The Gorge Amphitheater outside of George, Washington.
It sits on the cliffs of the Columbia River Gorge in central Washington. (You can’t tell from this picture, but right behind the stage is a big cliff.). That’s the mighty Columbia you see in the pic. It’s about 3 hours east of Seattle (I think), 2 hours west of Spokane, and about 5 or 6+ hours from Portland. What’s fun about it is that it’s more or less in the middle of nowhere, so people camp out for the shows.
The place is a mecca for big concerts for most of the Northwest (It’s not uncommon for people to drive 13 hours up from Southern Oregon every summer for big shows, for example…not that I’m self-referencing here :)).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Forgive the pics...
As a proud Oregonian I’m legally required to mention that the Gorge gets even prettier as the river moves south and then west (eventually becoming the border between Washington/Oregon.
The Columbia River Gorge National Scenic Area is one of the prettiest (and fascinating) places you’ll find, with high waterfalls and bordered the Cascade volcanic peaks.
For other pics, see here:
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Beautiful!
I went to Vancouver last summer and loved it. I’d definitely go back to that part of the world again.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 10, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
I have family in Pendleton
and drive the Gorge every now and then when we fly into Portland. It’s spectacular.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Feb 10, 2010 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
wow!
That pic is sweet!
Never been to the Gorge only to Alpine, which over the years I’ve moved my way from lawn to pavilion.
Lots of vineyards around there, too.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on Feb 10, 2010 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
this is my first time @ gorge
first time missing alpine since 02… cant do alpine do to work… i love alpine to miss i on the 4th made me cry…
my summer consists of
.5 Blackhawks @ caps stanley cup
1. DMB SPAC 8*2
2. DMB Cmaden NJ 1
3. DMB West Palm * 2
4. DMB Nats Park
5. Cubs games @ Nats park. Will either have front row cubs side or luxury boxes… my parents are also coming up and we are doing all three (if anyone needs a hookup please let me know)
6. DMB @ Gorge *3
7. DMB @ Wrigley *2
gonna be a good summer. although i am upset that i cant do alpine on the 4th…
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
You on Antsmarching.org?
Man, i hate those overgrown 8th grader look alike Brewer fans.
by CubbieBlue21 on Feb 11, 2010 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
just a breathtaking view
I would want to be right where that picture was taken
baseball.........is Kool Aid the remedy, or the cause of my desire for it
by cooliogirl47 on Feb 11, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions
Sigh...
Do they really have to add the whole Chicago bridge incident when talking about DMB? It has no relevence.
It’s like the perpetual Cubs and Bartman/Goat/100 years link. Give it a rest…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Feb 10, 2010 12:16 PM CST reply actions
Agreed, to a certain extent.
I know a person who was on that fateful tour boat. The health repercussions are still felt. But yeah, it’s a bit pointless to bring it up every single time someone refers to that particular band.
Well, consider that...
… Spielman didn’t get other details right, and that sources tell me NOTHING is set in writing yet, the whole article was kind of a waste of time.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's what I think of
whenever I hear the DMB mentioned.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Feb 10, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking just that.
means nothing to the story whatsoever. Does the Trib still have an editor?
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Feb 10, 2010 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
I think both acts are tired.
As far as bringing up the bridge incident, they better get used to it everytime they go to Chicago.
Paul McCartney would have been a nice show to have.
Still could happen.
As I added later, I learned that none of what Spielman wrote in the Sun-Times is yet set in stone.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And FWIW....
… at the Cubs community meeting last night, they did announce the July 7 and September 17 and 18 dates, but did not announce any bands.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
More information from the Tribune this afternoon
Ald. Tom Tunney, who 44th ward includes the Wrigleyville neighborhood, introduced an ordinance at today’s City Council meeting to allow concerts on July 7 and Sept. 17-18 at the ballpark at the corner of Clark and Addison streets.
Though the ordinance does not mention bands, a source with knowledge of the situation said the July 7 date likely will be a return engagement by Elton John and Billy Joel, while the Dave Matthews Band, Paul McCartney and Phish are potential acts to play the two September dates. Just one of the acts will take the stage both nights in September, the source said.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So it seems that DMB isn't a confirmed act yet
I’m still keeping my fingers crossed for McCartney.
While I know there are lots of Phish fans, I find it doubful that they would be able to host 2 nights at Wrigley, especially not at the $100 ticket prices that they will like to charge.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 10, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Phish tickets are $50.
Almost always, almost everywhere.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
My guess is the Cubs want to charge more than that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well...
… i’m not privy to the deals Wrigley does (or if Live Nation still does their deals for them even), but as i explained above, in MOST venues, ticket price isn’t the best way to forecast revenue for the venue or promoter.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
Phish drew 85,000 to the middle of a Florida swamp.
They won’t have a problem with drawing the crowd, but the Cubs may jack up their prices. I believe Fenway was standard Phish prices for every seat ($49 and change)…hopefully the Cubs can agree to do the same. But I’m not holding my breath.
Fenway was indeed $50 per.
I didn’t actually have to buy my tickets, so i’m not sure how the fees were as compared to other venues. As i detailed above, those can pull in just as much as the actual ticketing revenue for a lot of acts that demand big % of gates to perform.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for the info.
I think Phish pride themselves on not charging more for better seating. I’d gladly pay more for field seats (especially if the money is going to the Cubs organization) as long as it’s a reasonable price.
Yeah, they are great about keeping everything equal.
Makes the scalpers real happy. Bigger markup on those front seats.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
Not really much you can do about that.
The scalpers will exist regardless, as long as someone is willing to pay above face. And these days plenty of people are. If it’s any consolation, I’m sure they lost lots of money on the Star Lake/Shoreline/Gorge/Miami shows.
There were piles of loose, unused tickets on the turnstiles on the way in to Alpine this summer.
I had two extra from a friend who couldn’t make it that i couldn’t even trade for a can of beer. Oh well.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Wow how'd I forget Alpine.
We gave ours away. Should’ve tried to find a beer to trade for.
The funny thing was...
… even though i had all the tickets, money, beer, and whatever else i could need to do so, i couldn’t trade for reserved seats at any cost.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Assuming Macca wants to play here and his asking price isn;t too high, it would be the logical choice. High tix prices=high revenue! DMB,phish,etc can’t charge that much $$ and fill the joint.
You have to take in to consideration the repeat factor.
The core McCartney audience wouldn’t go two nights in a row. Phish and DMB fans wear their # of shows like medals, and because they are improvisational bands, you won’t be seeing the same thing two nights straight.
You still can’t hit the prices as you could with McCartney, but you’d have no problems with two nights.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
My guess, though, is...
… McCartney is popular enough that he could sell out two nights, even if it were two different groups of people.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Oh no doubt.
Just like Billy / Elton can.
Don’t discount Phish or DMB being able to do the same though. There would be a lot of overlap in the crowds, but they’d sell both nights.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 10, 2010 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Yes but Phish fans aren't going to pay $250 a show for 2 shows.
I’m sure though that McCartney can get 2 people to each buy 1 $250 ticket.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
But again, you are missing the point of how concerts work.
The Cubs are probably going to keep 10% of that ticketing revenue, tops.
Yes, Phish tickets will be $50, and yes, McCartney tickets would be $250. That’s a huge difference. But in terms of what the team makes, its the difference between $5 and $25 per ticket lining the cubs pockets… if the average Phish fan buys 3 more $6.50 beers than a McCartney fan does, things have evened out because the venue (The Cubs, in this case) keeps that revenue.
I’m not sure how to explain it more clearly, other than to say this… ticket price is a BAD way to judge potential revenue for anybody other than the artist, who is guaranteed to keep 90% of it at the arena / stadium level and probably around 60 – 70% of it at the club and theater level.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
See my comment below
I’m sure the Cubs are taking that into consideration, but also keep in mind that the fees that can be charged for a ticket go up as the ticket itself goes up. If I remeber correctly, ticket prices for Joel/John were $210 plus $25 for fees. Could you imagine charging $25 for fees on a $50 ticket?
And even if what the Cubs receive from ticket sales is only 10% of the ticket prices, 10% of $50 is $5 and 10% of $250 is $25. That, by my math, means $20 per ticket more just in that and probably at least $10 more per ticket for the fees.
So, the Cubs do have a vested interest in making sure that the act they bring in will maximize the cost of the ticket.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like you just repeated what i said...
… and then tried to make exactly the opposite point out of it.
Not all McCartney tickets would be $250… probably just the best ones. There will still be lots of $100 tickets in the upper deck. Fees do increase with ticket prices, but not exponentially, and it is hardly a deal breaker. If the team pockets 2/3rds of ticketing fees on a 40,000 person show, for example, every extra $5 only nets them $132,000. The revenue differential in a $10 fee level and a $20 fee level isn’t giant.
Straight ticketing numbers, no fees:
Phish sells 40,000 tickets at an average price $50, the Cubs keep $200,000.
DMB sells 40,000 tickets at an average price of $100, and the Cubs keep $400,000.
McCartney sells 40,000 tickets at an average price of $150, and the cubs keep $600,000.
All these numbers are estimates, and i wouldn’t be surprised if McCartney took greater than 90% of ticketing revenue. None the less, if we were talking about game day revenue, either one of those is a drop in the bucket, and the difference between them all isn’t really that large. As i joked earlier, some perspective: the dollar differences we are debating here are less than what Theriot is going to arbitration over.
You also have to consider things like marketing. Selling to McCartney fans means full page ads in the Trib, lots of spots on network TV, on and on and on. Phish would sell out immediately, and nobody would have to spend a cent on marketing. McCartney may travel with a crew of hundreds of people, requiring tens or even hundreds of thousands of extra dollars in expenses for catering, security, setup of dressing and production rooms… Phish, in its current form, has backstage lists of about a dozen people.
When you consider all of this, and then remember that they sell hundreds of thousands of dollars of beer during a game or concert, the potential difference between a McCartney show and a Phish show isn’t really that big. What is important is having the events at all, because these three concerts are occasions where the team doesn’t have to give 1/3rd of what it makes back to MLB.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
First of all
I’m sure that we can both agree that we are greatly oversimplifying the revenue argument. While, yes, the Cubs would be giving 1/3 of the revenues back to MLB, they are probalby also privvy to more revenue streams from a Cubs game than a concert. For instance, there would be no TV revenues from a concert. 2/3rds of $300,000 is better than 100% of nothing.
I agree that having them is really the important thing, but I disagree that the Cubs aren’t very interested and dependent upon the average ticket price of the concert to make the decision to have the concert.
And, yes, I partially am using what you wrote and proving the other point because it’s real money. The difference of $400,000 is sizable.
But, I just don’t necessarily agree with all of your assumptions here. I find it specious at best to assume that a Phish fan would drink 3 more beers than a McCartney fan, but running through those numbers that would be $750,000 more than a McCartney show. (40,000 × 3 x $6.25). That’s the best case scenario.
You are, however, missing my point about the fees. I could easliy see at least $10 more per ticket just in fees. That’s another $400,000.
However, it still makes no sense to me to assume that the Cubs aren’t leveraging the fact that they can charge higher prices and bring more money to a performer by allowing them to play at Wrigley field than at another venue. If McCartney were to play anywhere else in the city of Chicago, he would make less money.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
The difference of $400,000 is sizable.
I’m not poo-pooing it, it IS sizable. But some perspective is also important. Its also, like… four games pay for Soriano. Seriously.
I find it specious at best to assume that a Phish fan would drink 3 more beers than a McCartney fan.
You obviously haven’t been to a Phish show.
You are, however, missing my point about the fees.
I promise you i’m not. I work with these numbers every single day. I can assure you that the difference in the ability to charge $15 for ticketing fees and $25 for ticketing fees isn’t what is pushing promoters to book one way or the other. As i said, the cubs would probably see an extra $6 due to that $10 increase in “fees”. Book a band where the crowd drinks an average of 1 more beer per person, and you’ve done the same damage.
If McCartney were to play anywhere else in the city of Chicago, he would make less money.
Wrong. Prices for a McCartney concert my company did in freaking OKLAHOMA at the end of last year: $253, $198, $98 and $60
He could pull those prices anywhere. People here overestimate the value of Wrigley’s mystique. Its a great place to see a baseball game… not so with a concert. He’d do just as well at Soldier Field (who already have Bon Jovi and U2 on the books in July) or at the United Center.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Correct about hearing a concert at Wrigley.
The sound is… not so great. Same for most outdoor venues (U2 @ Soldier Field did NOT sound as good as U2 at the United Center).
But I’d be first in line for a McCartney show at Wrigley. That would be beyond cool, just to say I was there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Then why are tickets for John/Joel
going for less than $200 right now in the venues they are playing in California? Tix in San Jose and Oakland are going for $177. That’s not to mention that they can only sell some 20,000 total tix at all prices and the Cubs could sell 20,000 alone at the highest level. I don’t see the evidence that they could pull the ticket price charged at Wrigley at other venues. Like Al wrote, “It would be beyond cool.” I’ve seen McCartney a couple of times and I’ll tell you that I won’t pay $250 to see him at Soldier FIeld or The UC. I will pay that to see him at Wrigley.
You have a lot more experience in this field than I do, but I sense a cache around playing Wrigley that’s not there with other venues. You just can’t have the entire evening experience in at the UC or Soldier Field. I’m not privvy to the deals, but that sounds like a negotiating chip to me. If the Cubs leave that on the table, that’s up to them but as an outsider, that sounds like a dumb move, because the evidence that I see is that the experience of playing at Wrigley is beneficial to acts like McCartney et al.
The sound at a Wrigley show is irrelevant. Who is going there for a great music experience? It’s about the whole novelty of the experience.
I’m sure that Phish fans drink more than McCartney fans, but 3 beers per person across 40,000 is a high hurdle.
But, I just don’t buy that the Cubs don’t have a vested interest in trying to maximize the ticket price and they do care about who the performer is. I’m sure they also got some royalities from the Buffett video that was shot at Wrigley. That’s another stream of revenue that may be availible to the Cubs if McCartney were to play there rather than Phish.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 12, 2010 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
You are confusing two different acts.
McCartney can get $250 about anywhere. Its pretty standard. He’d get it at Wrigley, at Soldier Field, or at any other arena or stadium across the country.
The Face 2 Face tour does about $175, $95 and $55 everywhere. That’s what they did at Wrigley last summer, and what they are doing now in markets in CA and MO, except in the cases they are doing $177, $97 and $51.50.
In fact, go to Ticketmaster.com and look at the prices for ALL of the Billy Joel / Elton John concerts. Every single one is at that price level, just like Wrigley was last summer.
The prices are what they are (likely set by the act, not the venue or promoter), and the tiny percentages that the promoters keep are likely the same no matter where he plays.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 12, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
The cost for Joel/John last summer at Wrigley was $210 not $175
The evidence I see is that bands are charging a premium to play at Wrigley Field. Also, empirically, it seems that Wrigley can draw more people to the event.
If the Cubs aren’t getting a piece of that, that is not a wise move on their part.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 12, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
You are wrong.
Their 2009 concerts were priced at $175 for the best tickets, and their next will be priced at $175, $95, $55, just like everywhere else across the country.
2009 Proof from DeRo
As i said, the act, not the promoter, sets the prices. And Wrigley does NOT get a premium.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 12, 2010 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Did some digging around.
The cubs don’t promote the concerts at all – LiveNation does. LiveNation rents the venue (Wrigley) and i guarantee you the ticket price doesn’t influence the rental fees. In fact, how it works is LN puts a “hold” on the field for the dates they want the concert, get a price from the team, and include that rental price in the offer sheet to the act that details expenses and revenue so the act can get an idea of what they’ll make off the date.
Chances are the cubs put the date on hold and tell LN what it will cost before they ever even know what the act is.
The Cubs likely have a flat rate for a concert rental, and keep most of what is made off of concessions, as well as a small percentage (10 – 20%) of merch sold.
FWIW, the two Billy / Elton shows last summer at Wrigley Field grossed $11.1 million for LiveNation with 77,000-plus in attendance. Since they buy tours worldwide, i would expect they ARE far more interested in ticket price than the Cubs would have been, as their global buying power likely nets them a larger % of ticketing revenue than the Cubs could have got.
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 12, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
2009 Touring Grosses
PAUL MCCARTNEY
Total Gross: $33,650,567 Number of Shows: 10
Total Attendance: 275,256 Number of Sell-Outs: 7
RASCAL FLATTS
Total Gross: $42,298,302 Number of Shows: 55
Total Attendance: 768,152 Number of Sell-Outs: 40
DAVE MATTHEWS BAND
Total Gross: $52,338,154 Number of Shows: 58
Total Attendance: 997,158 Number of Sell-Outs: 23
BILLY JOEL & ELTON JOHN
Total Gross: $90,218,314 Number of Shows: 32
Total Attendance: 719,423 Number of Sell-Outs: 31
Both McCartney and Billy / Elton averaged about $125 per head in 2009… McCartney was actually about $4 less at $121.
For last year’s top 50 tours, with gross, number of shows, sell outs, average ticket price and more, hit this pdf: http://www.pollstarpro.com/files/Pollstar2009Top50.pdf
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by AndrewJStone on Feb 12, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting stuff.
Rascal Flatts and DMB had a much lower percentage of sellout shows than either Billy/Elton or McCartney. McCartney’s gross per show is the highest of all of these.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldn't take the DMB non-sellouts too seriously.
Dudes tend to play mostly massive amphitheaters and venues, and they did an extended European tour last year… they aren’t huge over there like they are here.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 12, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Oh,
I have no doubt that, in general, ticket prices are ususally the domain of the act and not of the venue, but I would hazzard to guess that part of the reason why the Joel/John tickets were so high was precisely because it was at Wrigley. If they were to have the same exact show at the United Center, tickets wouldn’t go for the same price.
I’m sure that the Wrigley people know this and structure the deal with the band accordingly.
by jerry morales rules on Feb 11, 2010 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
you are insane dmb will sell out quicker than anyone
i will personqlly be burning the good stuff on home plate or second base…
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
Worlds Collide!
BCB and Warehouse! Where does one start and the other end?
Phish would be great at Wrigley, but there is no way the Ricketeseseseses would allow that group of stoners into Wrigley.
DMB’s group of stoners, yes. Phish, not so much. Either way, i will be there!
Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher
Eh...
Phish would be great at Wrigley, but there is no way the Ricketeseseseses would allow that group of stoners into Wrigley.
Untrue. They played Fenway last year, and are by most accounts one of three options for Wrigley in 2010. The “Ricketeseseseses” are ALREADY CONSIDERING bringing “that group of stoners” to Wrigley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Probably wishful thinking
But why not give it to some Chicago-based acts instead of repeat performances? Kaye and Common one weekend, Wilco and Umphreys McGee the other. Also I cant stand Dave so thats part of the reasson Im posting this.
None of those acts could sell out a 40,000-seat stadium.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Kanye played two nights at the United Center in 2008.
I don’t know exactly how each date sold, but capacity is 23,500.
Since then, he also headlined Lollapalooza the first time it ever sold out.
There has been a lot of Kanye backlash since then, but i wouldn’t doubt that he could sell pretty close to Wrigley’s capacity.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Feb 11, 2010 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I would imagine
that Kanye wouldnt have to much trouble selling out Wrigley. And Wilco sold out three straight shows at the UIC Pavillion in a matter of hours when they were in town recently. So they could probably do it. But yeah definitely wishful thinking. Im just not into any of these acts. Even my fellow Evanstonian Eddy Vedder and Pearl Jam would be a better alternative.
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