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Question: available starting pitchers; any of them worthwhile?



Thanks again for your insights.

Star-divide

At the start of the season, Ted Lilly will still be recovering from surgery and there is a question as to whether we will need another starter.  This may end up being particularly important if the younger kids at the end of the rotation fail.

The remaining options include:

Jarrod Washburn

Braden Looper

Pedro Martinez

I don't think the current managment has any interest in any of them.  However, I wanted to know what you all thought.

Washburn put up excellent numbers last year.  Well, that is until he was traded to Detroit when he started tanking.  He seems like a solid lefty that could fill in for Lilly to start the year and perhaps compete for the end of the rotation.  The Indians frequently took chances on players like this, with much to prove, with one year contracts (Scott Elarton, Kevin Milwood, and Carl Pavano come to mind).  Do you think he would be worth a low-cost signing?  I want to emphasize that I do not know much about Washburn, so don't flame me for my lack of knowledge.  It's why I'm asking.  But his numbers do look good.

Braden Looper I would think could be had for cheap.  He wants to come to Chicago, and again would be a one year signing for a player with a lot to prove.  He's also worked in the bullpen so I would think he'd be comfortable if the Cubs wanted to use him for a pen arm.  That said, he had the worst year of the three last year.

Martinez looked great last year.  I personally am a bit shocked that nobody is taking a flyer on him for a one year deal.  He didn't pitch very far into games, but was very effective nonetheless.  For a one year low-cost signing, I would think he'd be a good choice as a crafty veteran with tons of experience. 

I would think that any of these guys would be willing to take just about any major league contract at this point especially when the alternative is essentially retirement.  I wanted your thoughts as to what you thought of these three.

Personally, I'd love to see us go after one of these guys than Chan Ho Park.  A failed starter with one good bullpen year?  Ugh.  (Living in Cleveland, I have come to realize that having one good bullpen year means precious little.  There was a time when we all thought that Rafael Betancourt, Rafael Perez, Jensen Lewis, and Joe Borowski consituted the best bullpen in baseball.  That was 2007.  Bullpen arms can change in an instant. I also lived thorough Mike MacDougal in KC.  Thus, I really hope we don't go after Park.)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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I almost forgot.

There was another guy who had a pretty decent year in the bullpen in 2008 that a team overpaid for and who then stunk it up in 2009. I think his name was Kevin Gregg.

Gosh, I really hope the Cubs don’t go after Park.

by nickler on Feb 20, 2010 11:45 PM CST reply actions  

hopefully

a few young arms (Jeff Gray being one of them) will surprise us from the start and have a good year

COOL BEANS!

by lexmarklover on Feb 21, 2010 12:53 AM CST reply actions  

Thoughts

Washburn – I believe he already has several low salary offers (including the Brewers). He may be waiting for more money so he wouldn’t be a low-cost signing.

Martinez – No. He won’t be cheap and he will get hurt.

Looper – Is he even healthy?

by rlpete on Feb 21, 2010 8:03 AM CST reply actions  

I don’t think the brewers made an offer to Washburn. I don’t believe Looper has any health problems.

by ol Pete on Feb 21, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions  

But he gives you heart attacks when he is on the mound.

Braden Looper is a NO.

Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.

by Ryno Runner on Feb 21, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

You are right on Looper

For some reason, I thought he was hurt. The Brewers have expressed some interest in Washburn but not sure if a contract was offered.

by rlpete on Feb 21, 2010 12:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I think it was Washburn expressed an interest in the Brewers, but no matter.

by ol Pete on Feb 21, 2010 3:13 PM CST up reply actions  

No thanks.

Really, I’m tired of going through everyone else’s retread starters to try to find one. The Cubs have some depth, and some young pitchers ready to step up. Enough of these types of pitchers.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 21, 2010 8:47 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

C'mon Al, just because they're not that good doesn't mean you need to call them names

oh wait….reTREAD. Ok, nevermind.

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)

by Fukudometer on Feb 21, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Retreads.

The new “R” word.

"There's more to life than profits...like, you know, slurpees and stuff." ~Randy Marsh

by Goodie1969 on Feb 21, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

LMAO

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 21, 2010 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm.

Just wondering— is Washburn a re-tread? Martinez I can understand.

SPLITS G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L P/GS WHIP BAA ERA
Season 28 28 1 1 176.0 160 77 74 23 49 100 9 9 97.3 1.19 .243 3.78
Career 312 300 9 4 1863.2 1855 900 848 240 569 1103 107 109 78.0 1.30 .259 4.10

Last year looked pretty good to me!

In fact, he was ace-like with a sub-3 ERA until he was sent to Detroit. Not sure why that happened.

I don’t know Washburn at all. Maybe he got lucky, maybe Seattle is a pitcher’s park? I don’t know. But just calling him a re-tread isn’t really giving me a reason as to why you wouldn’t pursue him at a low cost.

by nickler on Feb 21, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Safeco is a pitcher friendly park....

but, I believe Detroit’s park is rated pretty pitcher friendly itself. A difference might be I believe that Seatlle did rank out as one of the better defensive teams in baseball last year. Not a big follower of defensive rankings but, do believe I have read that in gearing up for fantasy baseball. But pitching in front of an above average or superior defense does make a pitcher better.

Overall I just don’t see throwing money, even if it’s “low, reasonable” amount in baseball terms, for a band aid fix early in the year. If Lilly won’t be back until June….then the issue is totaly different. What I keep reading is a ‘couple of weeks" and read one report said there was an outside chance he’d be ready for opening day.

by Rkfd Die Hard on Feb 21, 2010 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I would take a chance

with Washburn. As the days go by his money goes down, however so does days missed in camp. That is why I think if the Cubs were going to do something in the way of arms, it would of been done by now.

by Grockcubs on Feb 21, 2010 8:51 AM CST reply actions  

PEDRO!

Actually I am not sure if he has been keeping in shape in the off season, but pending a physical I would certainly make him a nice incentive laden offer.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Feb 21, 2010 8:53 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed

The guy still had it last year and in the playoffs. I’d do an incentive deal

"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck

by Musicdude10 on Feb 23, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

The options presented

I am reasonably close to the situation of one of the above options mentioned and unless he signs in two locations of his choosing, at the salary of his choosing, he will simply retire. The Cubs are not one of those two teams and as such, he’s not an option.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 21, 2010 9:27 AM CST reply actions  

I assume you're talking about Pedro.

That makes sense. I’m guessing the locations are Phillies and Mets.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 21, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Actually no

…it’s not Pedro. While I don’t want to say directly, I guess I’ve effectively narrowed down the list to two anyway.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Feb 21, 2010 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting.

Both of the others are 35, will be 36 later this year. I suppose either one could say, “Enough.” They’ve both made a lot of money playing baseball.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Feb 21, 2010 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

It is Washburn

There are stories that he’ll only play for a couple of teams.

by rlpete on Feb 21, 2010 8:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Not necessary, yet

At this point I’d much rather try and get through to Lilly then add an aging veteran with sore arm. We have some kids. Let them fight it out, see if anyone wants the job. Plus, we have some built in off days in the first two weeks of the season, we can get by missing a start or two from the fifth starter spot.

by Nibbles on Feb 21, 2010 10:33 AM CST reply actions  

I'm not confident in our bullpen

While I don’t think they will blow as many games as the Cubs did last year, I think there’s a lack of a experience in there. I’d love to have a veteran presence on the team in the bullpen.

That being said, I don’t want us to overpay or pay for someone who will blow games. Perhaps having unknowns pitch could be to our benefit at least early on. It will be a challenge for teams to fully be prepared for some of our guys.

by ak123 on Feb 21, 2010 10:41 AM CST reply actions  

Wait

You mean Silva won’t post a sub 3 ERA?

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 21, 2010 11:29 AM CST reply actions  

I actually don't believe Silva

will give up an earned run all year.

"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko

by DTJchris on Feb 21, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

True, he'd have to pitch to do that.

"There's more to life than profits...like, you know, slurpees and stuff." ~Randy Marsh

by Goodie1969 on Feb 21, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Ted Lily looked at him

And he though if he did bad he would best him up.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 21, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

**beat him up**

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 21, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

He'll have an ERA of zero

Because he isn’t pitching for this team

"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck

by Musicdude10 on Feb 23, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Rather see what the young arms can do...

of those 3 I would say that Pedro is not an option at all as I don’t think he would consider the Cubs at all.

Never been impressed with Looper at all. I wouldn’t consider him an acceptable arm for the rotation, even short term, or bullpen. The Cubs already have an arm (Silva) in the pen that will have trouble keeping his ERA below 5.

Washburn….maybe as teams get deeper into spring training his price will come down. And then what does he do after Lilly comes back? Would he willingly go to the pen….or if he has experience relieving, handle pitching in relief.

But, I don’t see a reason to try and find a repacement for Lilly in the rotation unless his new knee issue is more serious than reported. If Lilly is really on a time table to miss a couple of weeks at most, another starter isn’t a pressing issue. With days off, rain/snow outs a 5th starter is not always a pressing problem. I really don’t even see a problem with using a different pitcher every time (kind of a match up situation depending on the team they are facing) the Cubs need a 5th starter until Lilly is ready to pitch.

by Rkfd Die Hard on Feb 21, 2010 12:09 PM CST reply actions  

Ugh.

Do not want. I’m with Al, lets see what we have in house

"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will

by eswan9 on Feb 21, 2010 1:26 PM CST reply actions  

Z, Demp, Wells, Lilley

Is a solid first 4. We have plenty of in-house candidates for number 5 – Gorzellany, Shark, Marshall, Silva. None of the names you mention excite me more than those guys. And that doesn’t even include Andy Cashner, who I think Lou was just quoted as saying will get a good look as a starter.

Stick with what we have.

by Orval Overall on Feb 21, 2010 1:40 PM CST reply actions  

I would love to add Pedro...

That being said, I don’t know if he can hold up for a full season. And I’m not sure that he wants to pitch the full season. Same goes for Smoltz, who I’d also be in favor of signing.

I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it again here; say no to Chan Ho Park. He’s just not a good pitcher. We’ve got guys internally that can do the exact same thing for much cheaper.

by kanderber on Feb 21, 2010 1:57 PM CST reply actions  

I don't see much quality being added for under two mil.

I’d rather save money for the draft than grab an older guy that has more questions than answers. At least until we sense a need. Perhaps Park (or someone else) if on the cheap.

by tim815 on Feb 21, 2010 2:03 PM CST reply actions  

I just think

Washburn is a better option than Gorzo, Shark and Silva. This is why I would offer him a fair deal 3-4M range.

by Grockcubs on Feb 21, 2010 2:06 PM CST reply actions  

Jay Jackson might be

a better option than Silva. I don’t want Jackson anywhere near coming north.

Shark is….. well… I’m not sold on him.

Gorzo would be the comp. If our scouts are good on him, I’d go just south of 3M for Washburn.

by tim815 on Feb 21, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Pedro/Smoltz

both might be a decent pick up late in the season, but I do not believe that they have what it takes for a full season anymore. Both are better off waiting til ASG and seeing who could use a pitcher

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by Cubbie-Tim on Feb 21, 2010 2:45 PM CST reply actions  

So let it be said, so let it be written...

The Cubs do not have enough quality pitching in 2010. They simply don’t. That being the case I certainly would have interest in taking a flyer on people like Chan Ho Park, Pedro Martinez and Jarrod Washburn….all pitchers who would come at a bargain rate at this stage. None will be miracle workers, but there is no question they would be a boost to a inexcusably thin starting rotation and bullpen situation.

The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.

by BLou on Feb 21, 2010 4:54 PM CST reply actions  

If we would burn 4 million on any of the above,

would you say that Hendry made a good move? And hold to that opinion? If the pitcher we signed was terrible on the mound? Just wondering?

by tim815 on Feb 21, 2010 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

nor would I...

but if BLou would sign onto it, maybe he wouldn’t jump hendry later

if he admitted beforehand

he’d be fine with it.

by tim815 on Feb 21, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions  

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