Keith Law: "Early look at Harden was very discouraging."
by bdlugz on Mar 11, 2010 10:20 AM CST
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PrintI had not seen this posted yet, and as I assume there are quite a few people who are not ESPN Insiders, I didn't want to just link to the story either. Law seems to think that Harden has some pretty serious questions, even in March:
• Rich Harden was a shell of his old self. His first fastball was 83 mph, and he was 83-86 for the first few hitters before finally cracking 90 twice on the last hitter of the inning, finishing with a 91 mph heater for the strikeout. His arm used to be fairly free and loose, but his motion is severely restricted and he's visibly favoring his right shoulder, reducing his velocity and his command. After a smooth second inning, he was knocked around in the third and couldn't finish the frame. The best case scenario for Texas is that he builds up strength over the course of March so that he can at least work with an average fastball when the bell rings next month, but this early look was very discouraging.
If this is true, I for one am very happy that the Cubs didn't offer arb or extend a contract to Harden. For everyone out there who believed it was the worst idea in the world and that we now have a gaping hole in the 5 spot - I personally would rather have Marshall Gorzo and Spellcheck competing for that spot instead of having what is left of Harden for 7.5-10MM.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Well, that is certainly interesting.
I know that DGU speculated that the Cubs were SO hands-off with Harden b/c they knew about some injury issues. If that’s the case, well done Jim.
Of course, if it’s just Harden shaking off rust in the first week of March, then never mind.
I just don’t understand why he’d willingly go to Arlington. Pitchers get killed there, and it’s super-hot. It’s like the tailor-made worst place for Rich.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Yep, I agree that
it’s most likely rust. I liked Harden, but too mush of a risk. I also don’t recall him receiving any other offers….
You ARE freaking out MAN!
wait, I'm confused. When Silva pitches poorly in his first spring out
we’re supposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.
when Harden does the same thing, ‘a bullet is dodged’?
Lack of consistency is inconsistent
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 12, 2010 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Okay, first of all...
No one has EVER said that when Silva is good, he has the best stuff in the league. Silva does not rely on two pitches, and only two pitches to be effective. BCB did not debate the value of having Silva on the team – no one wanted him, we just wanted HWSNBN less.
With that said, Keith Law is very good at what he does and he saw problems with his mechanics and his motions that screamed much more than just “rust.”
When the discussion was offering arb, paying 10MM, tendering a contract, or letting him walk, a bullet was dodged that we chose the 3rd option. This is not inconsistant, it’s the truth.
except that you can't claim that a bullet was dodged, until Harden looks bad again
I distinctly remember concerns last year about Harden’s velocity being down, and then suddenly his velocity was fine. Law might be very good at what he does, but he doesn’t know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Harden is injured.
My point here really is that there is a group of people who are much more willing to give Cubs players the benefit of the doubt in these situations, simply because they are Cubs. That’s fine, except when they behave as though those of us who don’t are idiots.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 12, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Except we did dodge a bullet
We have a high-priced crappy pitcher instead of a high-priced crappy pitcher and a high-priced injured pitcher.
This gets rid of a pitcher who is injured a lot.
I would call that dodging a bullet.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 13, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
Argh
It pains me to say this but I have to agree with you. One start at the beginning of spring training is completely meaningless. There are plenty of reasons for the diminished velocity for one or two starts.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Mar 14, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Edited to put the quote from Keith Law in a quotebox.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This should be an interesting story to watch.
I like Rich Harden and enjoy watching him pitch. But it is really hard to envision him being successful pitching most of his games at Arlington. And if he is injured, well, Hendry is going to look even better.
Harden was a luxury the Cubs could no longer afford.
I think he signed with Texas for $7M plus incentives?
Good luck to Rich…he was fun to watch when he was hear.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
and he was fun to hear when I couldn't watch
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
Haha damnit. That's what I get for trying to post while at work.
Damn distractions!
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I'd have personally gone with "and he was fun to hear when I couldn't sea"
You may as well see how far we can go with it….
But their *our* dbags...
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
lord, tell me that was on purpose
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 12, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously? Of course it was.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Mar 14, 2010 10:52 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the Cubs were leery of Harden for this reason
A bad 2009 plus a history of injuries is not something you really want to spend a lot of money to acquire.
Since the topic is up...
I wish the team would have offered him arbitration and helped him pack. I can’t remember his Type-status, hence what his draft pick reward would have been. A second-round pick would have been nice. This isn’t Hendry’s MO, offering arbitration on the way out the door.
If Harden would have pushed the issue and stuck around, that would have been bad, possibly. But getting a sandwich pick would have been nice.
If Harden would have pushed the issue and stuck around, that would have been bad, possibly.
Tell him about the twinkie.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2010 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing it's a Ghostbusters reference.
"There's more to life than profits...like, you know, slurpees and stuff." ~Randy Marsh
sigh...
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 14, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it permitted to ask a pending free agent,
“If we offer arbitration, would you accept?”
Seems a reasonable question if permitted.
he could also say no
then accept anyway, and we are stuck with a potentially expensive pitcher who cannot pitch not named SIlva
Sunday Feb 28 at 7 PM CST free webcast of the live taping of The Austin Variety Show www.austinvarietyshow.com/
I'm sure it's allowed
it would be a less than intelligent way to go about doing things, since the player could lie through his teeth
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 12, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
And
It’s been done repeatedly over the years.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
by WayneCampbell08 on Mar 14, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe Harden had just slipped to Type-B, and in arb would likely have gotten 10M plus.
He would have accepted that, as it was more cash than he’d see elsewhere and he said that he loved playing for the Cubs. If we had offered, we’d have completely screwed ourselves over, letting him walk and not worrying about the draft pick was the only way to go.
by bdlugz on Mar 11, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree 100%
Way too much concern over trying to squeeze every possible draft pick from players the Cubs don’t want and in Harden’s case can’t afford.
Sounds like
a lot like the Harden from last year. Good thing the Rangers paid him and not the Cubs. I severely doubt it’s rust he’s shaking off, more like a ligament or two in his shoulder.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
Exactly. This confirms my belief that Harden wasn't brought back because of injury concerns.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
My thoughts, too
Harden’s last few starts as a Cub were very disturbing – no velocity and no movement at all. He was getting lit up and couldn’t do a thing about it.
When your only pitch is a fastball and you lose 10MPH off of it in one season, it’s not hard to guess that your best years are behind you.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Zing. Lol.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
when
harden is on top of his game he isunhittable. when he is not you get a 4 inning pitcher. was not worth 10 mill to keep.
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