Dukes and the Cubs?
by frustratedfan on Mar 17, 2010 11:20 AM CDT
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I see that the Washington Nationals suddenly, and without any real notice, released Elijah Dukes today. Should the Cubs give him a shot? He's a young player that was considered to have a lot of talent but has had a few off the field run ins. But maybe this is the splash of cold water in the face that he needs to put the talent back together. If the hitting coach is the genius that he is made out to be, with Dukes inherent talent, this could be a true difference maker... or it could be the second coming of Milton Bradley
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Projections indicate he...
…lacks hustle. We already have Fonzie, and don’t need another OF that mopes about the ivy.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
That said...
…I might consider a minor league deal. See how he does there, and maybe bring him up in mid-season if he can prove otherwise.
"With Chance on first, and Evers on third,
Great things from the Cubs will soon be heard."
No we already have too many outfielders.
I wonder if there’s more to this story coming. Like they released him before more information comes out about another incident.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
That's exactly what I think, too.
The Nats are not so awash in talent that they can afford to just cut a young, cheap player with high upside without a pretty good reason.
Just made a fan shot but promptly deleted it
I like the idea of Dukes much more than I like what he’s actually done. He seems to be Milton Bradley Jr. with more speed
Hehehe, MB Jr.
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
No.
No, no, no.
The Nationals wouldn’t have released a guy with this kind of talent if there weren’t other issues.
Did I mention no?
Well, let me do it again, anyway. No.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Mar 17, 2010 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't be wishy-washy here
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 17, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
How about NO?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the point?
We already have a ton of outfielders. Dukes clearly has issues. The Cubs don’t need issues.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But could Iowa use some issues?
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 17, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I read alittle more into him.
He has MORE personal problems than Milton does. So for that, I understand the reasoning behind not even wanting to give him a minor league invite.
I dunno, he’s a talent, but he obviously has plenty of anger issues outside of baseball.
2010 is OUR year.
Ya think?
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Well maybe then Peopris needs some issues...
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 17, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Damnit! Peoria
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 17, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Can Dukes play center?
Because we don’t have a ton of CFers in the system, otherwise we might have landed Granderson.
Brett Jackson would like to have a word with you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, he can play center
But we have enough RH outfielders.
If he was LH, I would say give him a shot
See my response below.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
What'd he say?
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 17, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
How about no, Scott?
Bob Brenly on Leo Nunez "Dan Uggla just saved Nunez’ life because Koyie would break him into a million pieces"
Scotty do?
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
Yes, no is the sensible answer, so NO!
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
by eths on Mar 17, 2010 12:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So Al,
You’re giving mixed signals… You’d be open to this idea?
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
que?
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 17, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
oh si, si
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 17, 2010 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions
MANUEL!
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 18, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Are we trying to win a World Series
Or are we shooting for the whole team to get a Roberto Clemente award?
Last time I checked the Cubs have a pathetic outfield, and their outfield “prospects” aren’t bringing much to the table.
We can either start over and build young, or continue bringing in older veteran players coming off of career years or past their prime. That plan hasn’t been working too well, so maybe it’s time to give the other one a shot, eh?
Dukes 2009 line
was .250 / .337 / .393. Fukudome beat all three of those. Do you realize the Nationals released him without a RF option? They would rather have nothing than Dukes. So why do the Cubs want him?
Ian Desmond
That is all.
Actually it isn’t, his 162-game average, given his age (25, not 32) and the fact that he was never really up for a full season is:
.242avg/21hr/83rbi/12sb
.771 OPS
Fukudome brings:
.258/11/61/10sb
.767 OPS
Thank you very much sir, good day.
what, exactly
are you arguing?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 17, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
My best GUESS
Is that zam is claiming the Nats released Dukes because they have a better option.
If that is, in fact, what zam is getting at, it fails to address why the Nats would outright release Dukes rather than trading him.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 17, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
As stated in the article
They had been asking around and nobody had shown any interest.
Dukes is also said to have been over his off-the-field issues as of late.
And so they dumped him for
Justin Maxwell, Roger Bernadina, Mike Morse and Willie Harris. Harris and Morse are retread veterans, Bernadia is a dime a dozen AAA OF’er and Maxwell is an ex-prospect who strikes out at a ridiculous rate.
None of these guys are close to Dukes talent-wise. Maybe he is over his off-the-field issues but apparently not the clubhouse issues.
I'm confused
Ian Desmond is a SS. From the Washington Post article today, the candidates to replace Dukes in right field are Justin Maxwell of Olney, Maryland, Roger Bernadina, Mike Morse and Willie Harris. That isn’t much potential but they still don’t want Dukes.
There were also two comments from the Nationals GM Mike Rizzo. Rizzo said the Nationals “will be a more cohesive, united group” without Dukes. “The clubhouse will be more united,” Rizzo said. “We’ll have a better feel around the ballclub. We’ll gain just by that alone.”
Rizzo said. “We found there was no interest in a trade for Elijah.” The Nationals could have also optioned Dukes to the minor leagues, but they felt he had peaked in his development, Rizzo said."
I’ll ask again, why do the Cubs want him?
Because he's better than
Fuld
Nady
Colvin
Hoffpauir
As someone said before. If it really didn’t work out, just let him go, he isn’t expensive.
Or, you could let a guy with great talent go because he had off-the-field issues more than 3 years ago.
Nady
whatchu talking bout, zam?
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 17, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Ha........
You just lost all credibility with that statement…….better than Nady.
in 240 career games over 3 MLB seasons, Dukes has posted .242/.349/.421
Nady is .280/.335/.458, with much better stats in ’07 and ’08, his last 2 full seasons.
Fuld, in 79 games, has posted .282/.403/.388, which is also better than Dukes, although a smaller sample size.
Colvin doesn’t have enough time in the bigs yet…….
AVG, OBP and OPS
Are the only numbers that determine how good a hitter is now?
How old is Nady? How many surgeries has he had?
Don’t get me wrong, I love having a bunch of 30+ guys on our team with almost no top prospects (save 1-2, both being 19 year-old shortstops), while other MLB teams are calling up 20-22 year olds that contribute right away.
I love being one of the teams with the highest payrolls and not winning, because we like ‘veteran’ talent with ‘experience’.
Last time I checked, veteran-ness and experience don’t win ballgames, talent does.
Are the only numbers that determine how good a hitter is now?
What numbers would you prefer we use?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 18, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
please be specific.
what numbers do you think are being missed?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 18, 2010 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions
number of distractions perhaps?
"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher
by BelieveinBlue2314 on Mar 18, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't this the guy that got benched because
he was late from being at a charity event?
2010 is OUR year.
He also got suspended for texting a girlfriend a picture of his gun as a threat!
I’d stay pretty far away.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Actually I was wrong here
It was his wife that he sent the picture of the gun. I don’t remember if that was before or after the restraining order.
The 17 year old foster child that he reportedly impregnated and then threatened was another story.
Hell, no. Haven't we had enough dealing with head cases on this team. The clubhouse
is just starting to get some harmony and you want to drop that land mine in it? No thank you, please!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 11:39 AM CDT reply actions
He is another headcase
Do you really want another Milton Bradley on the team?
[insert headcase remark here]
[Insert Milton Bradley comparison here]
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Hmmm....
He was projected to be the starting right fielder and was dropped for Justin Maxwell and Roger Bernadina? There is something more behind this. I see no reason why the Cubs should waste time here. He has a ton of talent but could be even more troubled than Bradley.
This story caught my eye this morning, too.
Dukes put up really good numbers in limited time in ‘08. And even in a down season last year, he put up an OBP around league average. But there’s obviously something afoot here. If the Cubs were desperate for an outfielder, I’d say maybe. Fortunately, we’ve got plenty to work with.
As a DC-area Cubs fan I can tell you
Whispers here are of clubhouse cancer so no need for MB II. On a separate and painful note the last two days of Washington Post Sports section cover stories have been a) yesterday’s story about how Kerry Wood failed to live up to his hype (connecting it to the hype around Strasburg) and b) today’s story about how Soriano has been a financial albatross to the Cubs franchise. What’s tomorrow? A where are they now feature on Steve Bartman?
by BeltwayCubsFan on Mar 17, 2010 11:58 AM CDT reply actions
I'm sure they will follow that up with an insightful piece about a curse and a billy goat. Fascinating stuff.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I missed yesterday's article
but unfortunately I did see today’s. Basically it was a “phew, glad the Nationals didn’t sign him” article.
Both of those articles are garbage.
Especially the one on Soriano. Yes, his contract is steep to say the least. But if someone would look at the payroll it’s a variety of different contracts that prevent us from signing big name free agents (Fukudome, Dempster, Zambrano, Ramirez, Lee)
2010 is OUR year.
Here's the Washington Post article on Soriano.
It is pretty harshly worded – I’m guessing it’ll make the BLous of the world happy. But it ends on a relatively hopeful, somewhat realistic note.
With regards to the future with Soriano
He’s going to be with the Cubs for a long time barring a serious injury, so Cub fans can continue to boo him relentlessly to make themselves feel better because he isn’t a 40-40 guy anymore or adjust to, as dat cubfan daver says, the ‘new reality’ of a #6 hitter who will probably hit about .260-.270, 25 HR – in line with what most NL #6 hitters produce and just forget about the salary.
by BeltwayCubsFan on Mar 17, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
As a bit of karmic payback
Jason Marquis got lit up for 8 runs in 3 1/3 innings today.
It's a simple question, Doctor: would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs??
by Invalid User on Mar 17, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe Silva will turn out to be another Marquis after all... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If Silva can be a .500 pitcher
that would be fine for your #5 guy.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Mar 17, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
the article does hit on that
mentioning Dome, Zambrano and Silva/Bradley’s contract but yeah, I think the articles tried to intertwine some vague connections between Cubs and Nats deemed ‘timely.’ (Riggleman handling both Wood and Strasburg and Soriano as a former Nat).
by BeltwayCubsFan on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
That dream turned into a nightmare in pretty short order.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 17, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Elijah Dukes = Milton Bradley's satan spawn
"The more i practice, the luckier i seem to get" -Yogi Berra
Dukes is talented
but we’ve got lots of outfielders and the Cubs are really not the team for a guy with his history and record of violence against women. Even if he’s a changed man, if Milton Bradley taught us anything, Wrigley Field is not the place to try to rehabilitate your image.
And no, Iowa doesn’t need him either.
the fact that he was released and not traded is quite a statement
given his minimal salary, WASH should have gotten something for him, so he obviously is not in demand at all. Since he will only get a minor league contract, Dukes will choose a team that doesnt already have 3 high priced outfielders
NO NO NO
Soriano, Byrd, Fukudome, Fuld, Nady, Colvin are enough to discuss and think about, let alone the up and comers like Jackson, etc.
Don’t need a guy who played a full season’s worth of games over two seasons, is a headcase, and would actually produce LESS than Gameboard.
You really think
Fuld, Nady and Colvin are going to be legitimate options as an OF?
What games have you been watching? There are good players, then there are average players. These three are never going to be anything more than average players.
What you need to win ballgames are good players.
I think that is overly simplistic
Tyler Colvin just might be the real deal. The guy has worked hard, improved his approach at the plate, and muscled up a bit.
With what he has shown so far this spring, I think he deserves a bit more scrutiny by the coaching staff and management. These things do happen periodically in MLB, and it just may be our turn for this sort of thing.
If there is a low pressure way to include Colvin, I think he has proven himself to be worth the risk. And if his upside continues to bloom, he could be some help in one way or another.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
Colvin's got potential.
Nady’s was hired as a sub; no one’s suggesting he’s anything but. Same for Fuld.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 17, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think they're all legit options in their respective roles, yes.
Look, Dukes put up some respectable numbers in 2008 (2007 and 2009, not so much). He clearly has some skills and, yes, he’s of a fine potential-filled baseball age. But this is the second major league team to essentially give up on him. And, I mean, if a guy can’t stick as a young, cost-controlled player with the Washington freakin’ Nationals, I think the Cubs have every right to be very wary. You’re grossly oversimplifying the situation by implying this is a slamdunk no-brainer.
What posts have you been reading.......
Soriano, Byrd and Fukudome are our starters, Fuld/Nady/Colvin are more than competent backups. Nady, in fact, COULD start if he heals properly and outperform Soriano and/or Fukudome.
And what games have you been watching that indicate Nady is average?
Have you ever actually watched Dukes?
He was once a top prospect, but from what he has shown in his major league time is he’s pretty average…. with issues…no thanks…
"God watches over drunks and third baseman."- Leo Durocher
by BelieveinBlue2314 on Mar 18, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Woo Hoo!!!
It’s that time of year. Anybody that gets released/DFA’d merits a Fanpost or a Fanshot. Glorious!
by timh815 on Mar 17, 2010 4:35 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd say no ...
but I think it’s a good question to ask. We might have some better position players in the system than we did three years ago — but Dukes IS talented.
As I said, I’d lean toward no on Dukes. But I think that the BCB folks, including Al and many regular posters, gave become way too gunshy when it comes to ANY questionable players outside the organization. I blame this on how badly almost every new Cub performed last year (MB, Miles, Gregg, Heilman).
But I’m amazed at how many BCBers seem content with our current bullpen — even though our primary RH setup guy has fewer than 20 innings in the bigs! And, no, I don’t think the Caridad-to-Marmol comparisons are relevant, because Marmol had more service time and was buttressed in 2007 by the very good Bob Howry (note — in 2007).
I realize that scrap-heap guys are different than prime free agents. But the Cubs got Reed Johnson and Jim Edmonds off the heap. Sure, that’s ALSO where they got Cory Koskie and scores of others.
I agree that he's kinda-maybe worth considering on paper...
…but here’s another problem:
If the Cubs did sign Dukes, he’d probably go to Triple A, right? And if Tyler Colvin doesn’t make the 25-man, he’ll probably go to Triple A.
Which means Dukes would end up taking playing time away from Colvin, no?
makes sense
My point was that the Cubs (and the team’s fans) shouldn’t be opposed to kicking these ideas around. I don’t think Dukes is a good gamble, but anybody who’s not with the organization is viewed more skeptically these days.
Just so we are all clear
Dukes is a completely different type of crazy then Milton. This is a guy who took a cell phone pic of his gun and sent it to his gf to keep her in check…
Having said that I would love him. He was fun to watch with the Nats last year and his at bat music is young jeezys “my president is black”
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
picture of a gun "to keep her in check" ? that sounds worse than Bradley.
that’s scary…not funny.
"Nady and his weak beard steps in" --Cubbie-Tim on Mar 12, 2010 9:53 PM
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 17, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
yea no kidding
dude is straight nuts… i had really good seats for a lot of nats gfames last year right behind the dugout and he was the only person i wouldnt heckle and keep in mind i was always drunk… he scared me that much… like ron artest on steroids
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42
i think that if the cubs did sign dukes, and cub fans really are a bunch of racists
several fans would be taken out of wrigley every inning on a stretcher
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
Good Lord
BCB has been reduced to the resident doorknobs and drool monkeys debating the wondrous virtues of Elijah Dukes in a Cub uniform. This a player who couldn’t make the cut on the worst baseball team in the big leagues and who actually makes Milton Bradley look like a member of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on Mar 17, 2010 8:05 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So since you're debating.........
Does that mean you’re a doorknob or a drool monkey?
and does BLou say yes or no to the idea?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
who cares...?
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Let's see...
Tons of unrealized potential…
Played for worst team is baseball…
several team suspensions…
Trouble with the law…
Said worst team in baseball releases him, despite potential, as a clubhouse cancer…
from the sounds of it… crazy as an outhouse rat…
Hmmm… geez… how do I phrase this…
Not just no, but HELL NO… Why is the hell would we want MB 2.0?
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
For the last word on this Dukes story...
…I recommend reading this blogpost by former Nats beat reporter Mark Zuckerman. It’s a really interesting, telling commentary on the often subtle effects of a given player’s clubhouse presence.
That's a really good post.
Worth posting as a Fanshot, I’d say.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Do we want Milton Bradley Part 2?
Details might differ a bit but, it would be the same old story.
If he was open to a “splash of cold water” wouldn’t that have been being sent to the Nationals? Sorry but, I don’t see people making character changes to their personalities unless they are willing to admit they have a problem. When I see a story from Dukes, Bradley or anyone else with issues admit what their problems are, do something to change their character (I am not sure a person can change certain aspects of their character/beliefs) then show over a period of time that they have changed I wouldn’t pay a wooden penny to have them on my favorite team.
Maybe it's just me, but whenever I see this fanpost on the righthand navbar...
…I have to stop and think for a moment on what it’s really about, because whenever I just see the title “Dukes and the Cubs”, my first reaction is the Ricketts family is just a front – and these guys are the real owners…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Hey Randy, hey Morty!!!!!!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 19, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
NO
nothing but trouble here in tampa. stories of abusing girlfriends,not paying child support.not hustling on the diamond. even carl crawford ripped into him.
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