Bradley already a clubhouse cancer in Seattle
He wastes no time alienating his teammates.
almost 2 years ago
Wreckard
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I'm really hoping that you were being sarcastic.
With the Internet, you can never tell.
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
That you didn't even take the time to read the article?
Not really, no.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps, but he's right.
You didn’t read the article before commenting.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 19, 2010 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Props for admitting it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 20, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
The guy is human feces
He was run out of town in Montreal (for challenging the distinguised Felipe Alou), Cleveland (for going after manager Charlie Manuel), Los Angeles (for running up into the stands), San Diego (where the ump actually had the good sense to call him a fucking piece of shit and he reacted poorly), Texas (where he challenged the Kansas City radio announcers to a fight).
He will be dead or in prison by age 45.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
The way you talk
You’re really not the greatest person around either. If someone said “He will be dead or in prison by age 45”, I hope you’d be upset.
Frankly put, I hope to never meet you in person because you really come across as a horrible human being.
by ak123 on Mar 18, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i have a feeling he is about
5’1" kind gentleman in real life, who uses the internet to become a 6’6" monster
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
Why 45? That seems awfully precise.
Is that when the grim reality of being a washed up ex-athlete with no real hope for success in life set in for you?
by Wreckard on Mar 18, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
ouch... good one wreck.
I'm a truth teller, I'm a risk taker, I'm like Johnny Cash - I walk the line...
by Jimmyeatworld on Mar 18, 2010 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
BOOYAH!
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 19, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Zing!
I'm Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart. Not her wart. Not her wart! I'm... I'm the wart. She's my tumor. My... my growth. My... uh, my pimple. I'm Uncle Wart. Just old Buck "Wart" Russell. That's what they call me, or Melanoma Head. - Uncle Buck
by Andiamo Cuccioli on Mar 19, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Whammo!
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
heavens to mergatroid
i agree 100% with Wreckard on this
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
He wasn't run out of Texas.
They didn’t re-sign him. There were some comments about him being bad in the clubhouse and there was the incident with the Royals broadcaster — but this is the kind of exaggeration on a key point that gets you in trouble around here.
Please note, BLou, that I’m not a Kool-Aid type and that I argue with Al a lot. Hell, I think you bring a personality to this site that spurs a lot of discussion — which is a good thing. If everybody agreed, this site would be incredibly boring.
And please don’t think that I’m defending MB — though it’s worth noting that you and I both liked the signing a year ago. We were obviously very, very wrong.
Anyway, it’s flat offensive to say that MB’s a piece of human feces that he’ll be in jail by 45 (when he really hasn’t had that many problems with the law, compared with a lot of athletes). And saying that he was run out of Texas is just flat wrong.
by elgato on Mar 18, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Recd
simply for showing BLou what it means to take some GD responsibility for one’s statements and actions.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 19, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Green'ed.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
......Lol. Green'ed as well.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Saying Felipe Alou is distinguished might be a comment on his appearance.
And while I’m no MB fan, I have watched Alou manage for years I can honestly say – if you don’t have a problem with him you’re not paying attention. He’s downright Dustyesque. And no, Dustyesque is not the Russian who wrote Notes From Underground.
According to Dustyesque...
… counting pitches is a CRIME,
and career-ending surgery at 26 is your PUNISHMENT.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
it's funny
because you clearly didn’t read the article.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 18, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
but you guaranteed he would be a success in Chicago
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
Just like...
… Rob Dibble…
- who threw baseballs at fans.
- who brawled with other players.
- who threw a lot of tantrums.
- who tried to hit Doug Dascenzo with the ball as he ran down the line.
- who got into a fight with our very own Lou Pinella in the locker room.
- who is 46 years old and not in jail.
And, as mentioned by others, you didn’t really READ the article, did you? That’s a shame. It’s about the side of Bradley we were hoping to get last year.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
Your ignorance is showing.
OK I don't know shit about basketball.
by SoulEater7 on Nov. 5, 2009 9:51 PM CST
Crap, where?!
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
what the hell?
Dead or in Prison? Seriously? I may not like the guy, but that’s some mighty ridiculous posturing there Blou.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you read the article?
If anything, he seems to be having fun in the clubhouse.
Yeah, that's what I took from the article as well
Unless Griffey is sensitive about his age or something?
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko
must be sarcasm......
….based on what we have heard about Bradley in the clubhouse, that was a 180 and a bold attempt to reach out (for him)
This post is a great experiment
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on Mar 18, 2010 5:14 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I was thinking the same thing
"You’re playing a baseball game. You’re not playing Tiddlywinks. There is competition, for God’s sake."— Lou Piniella
yeah
Does it seem like 50% read before commenting, or am I guessing high here?
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
Yep - Wreckard must have been Pavlov in a past life...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Did somebody just ring a bell?
I’m hungry.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
Well played.
People should remember that while they have the right to their opinion, they are not entitled to be taken seriously. -- Bruce Bartlett
Who cares?
Why do people keep talking about Milton Bradley so much?
by kanderber on Mar 18, 2010 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Because he might be available for cheap at the trading deadline to bolster our bench.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 18, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
+21
Come visit me inside Wrigley along the Addison side mezzanine fence straight up from 1st base.
by section229beer on Mar 18, 2010 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions
with power...
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
and bring fire this team so desperately needs
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 19, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Classic.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Best words in this post.
Rec’d.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 18, 2010 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The above comment, "Best words in this post," was my 10,000th SB Nation comment.
Still a ways to go before 10,000 comments at BCB … I’m currently at just over 8,000 comments here.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Mar 19, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
That looks painful.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
This, coming from you?
I’m surprised you’d say that even in a facetious way.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's because you like to mischaracterize my point of view.
Just because I believe statistics are a valuable way to look at the game and make evaluations doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the human aspect of it.
Oddly enough as much as some around here would claim the opposite, they don’t seem to like it when their players act like human beings. I am fine when my athletes make mistakes, get emotional, act egotistical, and act, well, human. I have no expectation that athletes will shiny, heroic, contrite quote machines in the clubhouse, always giving the perfect interview, always apologizing for their failings and saying the right thing. I think if everyone in baseball was like that, baseball would be devastatingly boring to watch.
While even by my standards the Bradley thing clearly went off the rails, the treatment of guys like Zambrano tell me that while a lot of people like to talk about the human element of the game, what they really want is dancing bears.
I'm not sure what you mean by "dancing bears".
However, while the link about Bradley is amusing — and yes, I did read it first — one friendly little prank on his part hardly balances out his performances in the clubhouse (and in public) over the rest of his career.
Let’s see how this plays out. Could he become a friendly, happy player who produces and stays healthy the whole season? Sure, but it’s very unlikely.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
See you're doing it again
one friendly little prank on his part hardly balances out his performances in the clubhouse (and in public) over the rest of his career.
In no way shape or form did I say that this was the case.
I didn't imply that you said that.
It’s my opinion.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
As in Grateful Dead Dancing Bears?
Z likes the Dead?
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 19, 2010 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe this will be the new "blue alt" jersey this year when he pitches
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm not going to admit to which of these i actually own...
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
well I hope it's not the middle one with SAMPLE across the front...
…unless your real first name is Junior. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
My workplace is blocking this image.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 19, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks for the update.
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Mar 19, 2010 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
I want dancing monkeys.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 19, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Damn
I meandered over here in September because of this post (where you slapped Al and C-Tim’s behinds and made them your Sallies) and the dude’s STILL going after you because you understand stats, its limitations, and its applications?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
Looking at it now I think this was a social experiment
To see if people actually read articles or just go off on their own rants blasting him.
If that was the case, then I think this worked.
This does not come close...
…to being a cancer in the clubhouse! In fact, it shows he is trying to have some fun with the guys – ala Kevin Millar.
With that said, give him time and we’ll see what happens. My guess is he will not have the difficulty he did in Chicago, but as I said many months ago, I’ll bet he spends considerable time on the DL this year.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I believe he must be a changed man!
Hostile, paranoid malcontents just don’t give out hair coloring as a gag. Brighter days ahead for Mr. Bradley!
Yay!
"There's more to life than profits...like, you know, slurpees and stuff." ~Randy Marsh
Texas view of M.B.
I am here, he was’nt a bad guy here, just misunderstood. When he was in San Diego the ump provoked him to that point……wait I can’t do it with a straight face…p.o.s., more like age 40.
ernie81
Bradley IS a pain in the ass...
… but as i said during his tenure with the cubs… its on BOTH sides to deal with those sort of issues – especially when you’ve made a multi-year, multi-million dollar commitment to have the guy around.
I don’t believe he’s a man who’ll vastly change, but a better environment could undoubtedly foster him. If he goes elsewhere and flourishes, its on the Cubs for not being able to figure out how to balance his talent and his attitude in order to get the most out of their investment. He is who he is, but in my mind, dealing with his (and other players) mental ticks is no different than dealing with their physical idiosyncrasies. We hire trainers and specialists for their bodies, their diets, their swings… why wasn’t somebody hired to try to get MB’s mind right?
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 8:06 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
kind of agree
I can see why the Cubs struggled to deal with him after he signed. Making MB less tense isn’t exactly an exact science.
Frankly, signing him after the heartbreak of 2008 — and all the pressure inherent to the Cubs — was probably a mistake to begin with. I liked the deal last year, but I was clearly wrong.
Disagree.
It’s not up to the team. If he is better in a different environment, then maybe he just wasn’t suited to playing in Chicago.
Or Cleveland, or Los Angeles, or Oakland, or San Diego, or Texas.
The Cubs didn’t have to hire someone to “get the mind right” of the other 24 players on the team. Why should this player get special treatment?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
but it should be up to the team ...
to assess whether a player is a good fit in a particular environment. It’s also worth noting that Hendry has said that MB would have been better off had he started strong — but historically (IIRC) MB has always been better in the second half.
That's absolutely true.
Jim Hendry didn’t do his homework on whether MB would be a good fit in Chicago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
frankly ...
I have some sympathy for Hendry. He was being an optimist and trying to give MB a chance — rather than trusting to cynicism. It was totally the wrong call — and it can’t be fun when your faith in someone is shown to be so misplaced.
please, you could say that about all the other crappy contracts Hendry has handed out
And quite frankly, when dealing with Milton Bradley, being an optimist makes you look like someone living in denial.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
MB is a human being Al, not a futon
You can’t just take some measurements and project if a person will fit or not.
The idea that he didn’t do his “homework” before spending $30M is preposterous. Just how reckless and incompetent do you think he is?
The fact that...
… Bradley and Hendry had a nice dinner before MB signed, doesn’t imply a “fit”. Hendry didn’t do his homework on this one. I think that’s been pretty well proven.
Really, I wish we could just stop discussing this individual except for the games in which he plays against the Cubs.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
hmmm
That was my exact thought when i read the title of this post. However I do think that Hendry and the Front Office should (and hopefully did) spend a long time talking about the exact things being discussed here. Including all of Bradley’s negative comments. Perception = Reality far too often.
well, let's see ...
Explosive personality with history of wearing out his welcome + team with 100-year championship drought and six seasons of increased pressure after Bartman, 2004, 2007 and 2008.
Throw in the fact that MB really wasn’t the TYPE of player the Cubs needed (switch-hitter who’s better from the right side versus a lefty RBI guy), and this was a bad idea — though a sort of intriguing one.
I don’t know if I’d say that Hendry didn’t do his homework. But I would say his gut was way off on this one.
Can I chime in? I think he's damn incompetent
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Careful
Or we are doomed to hear some BS comment about “Genius Jim” and the need for a hanging or stoning or something like that from Genius BLou.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 19, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
then why hire someone
to translate for Dome? Why hire nutritionists? Mental health is no different from physical health.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 19, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
well, it IS different
Checking qualifications for translators or trainers is pretty easy. But how do you find someone qualified to help MB?
Other mental health concerns around the league?
Does anyone know if the Tigers hired someone to work with Dontrelle on his anxiety issues? Or was that something he had to cover on his own? What about Khalil Green and the Cards? Do the Rangers pay Josh Hamilton’s sponsor? What about Adam LaRoche or the various other players who are approved to take stimulants due to ADHD diagnoses?
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
Joey Votto, too
missed a bunch of games with depression issues.
RELEASE THE CENTIQUID!!!!
by Felonius_Monk on Mar 22, 2010 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
There's much more consciousness...
…about mental health issues around baseball recently.
I just don’t know if the player or the team is responsible for finding/covering the treatment. I’d guess mental health treatment would be funded by a player’s insurance (as it is for much of the American workforce), but I don’t know if that is actually the case.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
I don't know...
… maybe because they had $20,000,000 resting on his performance over three years? And considering that, some specialist or consultant contracted to come work with the guy every once in a while at $800 an hour or whatever seems like no big deal?
Look, i know we’ve all established that the team will be better off, both in an abstract way, and quite literally in its results on the field, without him. But we have to face the fact that in terms of pure talent, we took a bath on this deal. If teams from every major sports league will send players down to freaking Birmingham, Alabama to get their joints fixed, why not hook a mentally damaged guy up with some help as well?
Who knows? Maybe what Bradley suffers from is something some doctors might diagnose and treat… diseases and disorders present themselves in any multitude of ways. If your option, as a team, was to get Bradley on some mood stabilizers vs. dumping him for Silva, why not give the first option a try? What if he just required some therapy, some anger management?
Getting the man back in a good mental place should have been attempted. He was no less worthy of treatment and work as a pitcher with a sore elbow – in both cases, some work with people specializing in certain fields may have helped that player reach his full potential.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
How do you know some of those things weren't attempted?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
this is where the conversation will run off the rails ...
Talking about what-ifs and who-knows-if-they-dids is kind of pointless, isn’t it?
Because i've heard no indication that they were, and the teams actions seemingly spoke otherwise...
… but elgato is right, there is no point in playing a game of what-if with you. You can’t really prove me wrong, just introduce a little doubt. Fair enough: if they did do this, then extra double more shame on Bradley.
But my point still stands: if this wasn’t attempted, shame on the team. If putting the best guys on the field is the job, they didn’t do it, and it seems these sort of solutions may have helped.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
generally speaking ...
I’d say it’s a lot easier to make a difference with a nutritionist or a translator (who can do concrete things) than it is to find a psychologist or therapist who could have “fixed” MB. Therapy can take years to be effective, and the Cubs were reportedly looking to dump MB by midseason.
I’m not saying the Cubs shouldn’t have tried, necessarily. But making a player happier (that’s what we’re really talking about) is a lot harder than making a player healthier.
Generally speaking, yes.
But is it $20,000,000 difficult? Because that was what the investment was supposedly worth, right?
I’ve personally witnessed people who had a simple chances made to their lives – a couple of therapy sessions and a prescription for a once a day medication – that in a matter of weeks, have totally changed their outlook, concentration, attitude, productivity…
It isn’t guaranteed, but its possible, even REASONABLE to assume it could have happened.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
OK. I don't disagree with you.
I wonder if the Cubs tried. We’ll probably never know, I guess.
it wouldn't have been in Milton's or the team's best interests
to announce “Hey everyone, we’re bringing in a specialist to deal with Bradley because he’s far too big an a-hole to treat the same as the rest of the players”
So even if they did try that (and I’m still leaning towards they didn’t) you probably wouldn’t have heard about it.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Additionally, Al...
… i should point out that this is a depressingly predictable response. I appreciate your distaste for the guy – really, i get it – but it has been one of the things you’ve been most inflexible in trying to see from a different angle in my time here on BCB.
I know you tire of discussing him, but the fact is, interest remains amongst the Cubs fan base, and he isn’t going away. If these discussions are going to be had here on your site, and he’s gone and can’t really effect the team you love anymore, why not lighten up on the guy a little?
I frankly get bummed when i witness the level of disdain for this guy amongst many here. Its clear he is a guy who is often uncomfortable in his own skin, and was especially unhappy in the midst of the intense scrutiny here in Chicago. He put himself in that position, yes. But at the same time, his discomfort was no doubt something that was as dis-pleasurable to him as it was to all of us. Chances are he really does have some legitimate issues that need to be addressed. I’d hope anybody, no matter their pay, job, race, fame, whatever would be able to get the help they need when they feel as “fish out of water” as MB clearly did.
I really strongly feel that some sympathy for the guy and a little treatment could have gone a long way towards mending the deal for both us and the player. Strong handed tactics had no chance of working – everybody knew that. The team gave up on him as a sunk cost so quickly – reportedly by mid-season? – that i question the whole process that went in to getting him TO Chicago. At some point, you HAVE to assign some blame to the team as well.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
Great point here:
“I’d hope anybody, no matter their pay, job, race, fame, whatever would be able to get the help they need when they feel as "fish out of water" as MB clearly did.”
also ...
I think Al and many others are angriest at the comments MB made to Bruce Miles. Sorry, if I’m wrong about that, Al.
Had MB not made those comments, I think more people would forgive him.
I agree with that.
I cannot remember any major league player ever doing that: throwing his teammates, team management, fans, and media, under the bus all at the same time.
The comments from his Cubs teammates at the time were revealing — I have never heard major league players make public pronouncements like that about a teammate. Usually they are supportive, at least in public. The Cubs were diplomatic, as much as they could be, but still pretty harsh.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Mar 19, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
As a Licensed Professional Counselor
The one thing that I can say for sure is that even the best therapist in the world must have a client that is willing to change.
One of the things necessary for wanting to change is admitting that something you are doing is not working or is “wrong.” This means that the client would have to have some level of personal responsibility for the situation.
I have not seen anything that indicates MB took any responsibility for his difficult year in Chicago or the things he did to make it more difficult for himself.
The Cubs could have had the team doc prescribe meds, mandated that he go to therapy and anger management, or anything else.
Unless MB bought in that he was part of the problem and actually did the work, took the meds, attended sessions, etc, then it would have been a case of spending good money after bad.
Bottom line is therapists are not miracle workers. Clients must want to be part of the change process for actual, real, long lasting change to happen.
by ScottT on Mar 19, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
So you've diagnosed MB as untreatable without ever meeting him?
Great.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions
No, the point he's making is...
that in order for a therapy patient to improve/recover/whatever term works, the patient must be willing to do the therapy. Example, you don’t get the benefits of pills by throwing them out the window.
by Steven Schweickert on Mar 19, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
And i find it hard to believe anybody can expect something like that to happen...
… simply by observing him from afar.
This is the same as everybody knowing what was wrong with Sorianos knee last season – wild guessing at a problem without ever actually examining the patient.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You've missed the point.
ANYONE who wants to improve via therapy has to be willing. Milton Bradley does not appear to be the sort of person who would be willing. Granted, that’s speculation, but I think not unreasonably so.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No more unreasonably so...
… than speculating that he WOULD be willing. I’m sure i could spend 20 minutes culling all sorts of quotes from him and those close to him implying what i wanted to hear as well – thats sort of my point.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 20, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Problem is, we aren't judged by our words.
We are the product of our choices and our actions. “Judging from afar” is perfectly legit, because we’ve all seen enough actions on Bradley’s part to form an opinion. I mean, I’m sure Charlie Sheen is probably a really nice, misunderstood dude, too, but his actions are what we all judge him on.
And I don’t think it’s unfair at all.
"There's more to life than profits...like, you know, slurpees and stuff." ~Randy Marsh
by Goodie1969 on Mar 20, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he's been through counseling, he's still a giant douchenozzle
so there are facts in evidence you’re simply ignoring
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
It much the same as
someone who has a Drug, Alcohol, Eating or Anger problem…
Until the person in question realizes that that certain behavior is a problem
and decides to do something to deal with and change the behavior, all the
interventions and sessions with a therapist or counselor are going to do
nothing but waste everyones time and money…
Once the person is question gets to the point that they recognize the
problem, be it Drugs, Alcohol, Food, Anger or whatever, is adversely
effecting their lives, then and only then will the counseling/therapy make
any head way to dealing with and changing them.
It’s like the old joke…
Q: How many therapists does it take to change a lightbulb…?
A: One, but the lightbulb has to want to change…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
How do you compare drug, alcohol, and eating with anger?
Completely different.
Doing drugs, drinking, and eating are all actions. Anger is a state of mind.
While I agree that the person in question has to want to change, they often have a different perception of reality which makes everything rational in their head.
Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.
- John Wayne
It seems to me that you two are agreeing.
The individual who needs help wants to change — meaning, in essence, that he/she thinks everything’s hunky-dory in their own mind.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
acting on that anger is.....an action
not being able to control yourself is an action.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
and people who are addicted to drugs, alcohol and eating
also have a different perception of reality
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Andrew, that's not at all what I wrote
And I think you know that, so please lower your defensiveness level.
I simply wrote that I have not seen anything that indicates that he took any responsibility. Have you?
I’ve seen him blame players, coaches, fans, the City of Chicago, the educational system, his landlord for charging him rent (joke) and that the team in general had expectations of him that were unrealistic. None of that leads me to believe that he was interested in changing anything.
The fact remains that he would have to be an active participant in any therapeutic modality, be that meds, therapy, anger management, etc. The Cubs couldn’t MAKE him better, he would have had to try on his end, too.
I simply wrote that I have not seen anything that indicates that he took any responsibility. Have you?
I have seen quotes by him where he recognizes he has problems and that he struggles with them. I can’t give you a citation directly related to the 2009 season, but if you’ve read enough interviews with him over the past 2 or 3 years, you should remember them.
I do remember one point in the season when he said he was going to turn everything around, “starting today”. He was referring to his hitting, but it’s possible the whole attitude/approach was wrapped up in that too. Trouble was, almost immediately after that he threw the ball in the stands, and everybody hated him with renewed vigor.
I think you're wrong on the timing.
IIRC, MB threw the ball in the stands against the Twins in June, and he made the comments about turning things around after the All-Star break.
struggling with a problem
and wanting to change the behavior are two totally different things.
If you don’t believe me, ask any recovering alcoholic/addict.
i don't disagree
Like you said
One of the things necessary for wanting to change is admitting that something you are doing is not working or is "wrong."
I think if you admit something, you are at least taking ownership. Obviously, there’s another huge step that comes next.
...
I’ve seen him blame players, coaches, fans, the City of Chicago, the educational system, his landlord for charging him rent (joke) and that the team in general had expectations of him that were unrealistic.
These seem like symptoms of his problem. As a therapist, would you simply refuse to treat somebody who’s symptoms included blaming others? Does that make him untreatable?
I get your point – he’s gotta be willing to change – but it doesn’t change the fact that you know nothing of his willingness to do so, and nothing of the problems he actually faces. Everything you are saying BEYOND “he’d have to want to change” is purely conjecture based on your impressions of the guy via the media.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
...
and everything you’re saying beyond “These seem like symptoms of his problem.” are too.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 19, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not pretending to know if or how is problems could be solved.
I’m saying i certainly hope – but doubt – that the cubs had experts explore that route before dumping him for pennies on the dollar.
There is a big difference between what i’m claiming and what ScottT is… but i suspect you knew that and are just participating in some good old fashioned rabble-rousing at this point.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
No one is saying MB's untreatable.
But change takes time and dedication. There are Stages of Change in mental health, which is a long involved process and something that is better understood through research than being explained on a blog.
Observing MB’s comments to this point regarding blame is not a diagnosis. It’s acknowledging a witnessed pattern of behavior. That pattern of observed behavior (behavior exhibited by MB himself) points towards an earlier Stage of Change. It’s an observation from someone with knowledge of the mental health field, not a professional diagnosis or recommendation for type or level of treatment. Please do not treat it as such.
You have no additional information on MB’s inner-workings either. Therefore, your notion that “a little treatment could have gone a long way” as well as MB “being uncomfortable in his own skin” is conjecture as well. And that doesn’t even begin to address your assumption that ScottT believe MB is untreatable. He never stated that.
Again, please don’t mistake observations for diagnoses or recommendations. ScottT was using MB’s observed behavior as to explain a step in the theraputic process. Given MB’s exhibited behavior, it is likely that the process may be a long one. But in no way was ScottT stating that his observation was the final clinical word on the matter.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
Ugh.
I’m not claiming anything as FACT. My speculation that treatment COULD have helped MB is just as valid as anybody else’s that it wouldn’t have. In fact there is far more reason to believe it would have helped than to believe it wouldn’t. What, he’s difficult so treatment isn’t a viable option? Do mental health professionals just write off all pain in the butt patients?
As far as him not being comfortable… well, if you call that conjecture, i don’t know what you were looking at. The Trib seemed to agree. He said as much many times. It was pretty plainly obvious he didn’t feel right in Chicago. Granted, he’s felt that way before – many times. That doesn’t mean the Cubs are off the hook for not making THEIR $20,000,000 investment comfortable.
I don’t deflect Bradley from blame. He’s obviously at fault for what took place. He was also a known entity, and the cubs apparent shock at his behavior and need to dump him only 1/3rd of the way through what they signed up for is inexcusable. It was a poor use of resources. And it annoys me that everyone gives the team a pass for this relationship gone sour as if they played no part in how things went down.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay...
… thank you for citing the source and stating your opinion on MB’s comfort in his skin. That resolves that particular issue. My mistake.
However, (and, ScottT, correct me if I’m wrong) ScottT’s point was that the LENGTH OF TIME required for progress from treatment appeared to be longer than an off-season. We don’t know with 100% certainty how much progress would have been made over the off-season. However, given what MB has said, it seems likely (in the opinion of someone who is licensed in the field of mental health) that the issue of MB accepting his role in the situation (as part of the issue as opposed to a total victim) would have to be addressed before the larger issues could be dealt with (this would be the part about MB’s willingness to change). That would slow down progress in terms of making MB comfortable, in the opinion of a mental health professional.
My point was that ScottT was NOT claiming that MB was “untreatable,” to use your phrase. Everyone agrees that treatment can help. It just might take a while to see significant progress due to the behaviors MB has exhibited so far. Nobody in this conversation believes that MB wouldn’t benefit from therapy.
In fact, you reached your conclusion on MB’s discomfort in his skin based on your personal observations in the same manner that ScottT reached his conclusion that progress might be slow. So I don’t see why you took such offense to the observation or believed that ScottT was saying MB was “untreatable.” I really can’t see how you reached that conclusion.
As far as protecting their investment, we actually don’t know what the Cubs did. It’s likely that they didn’t do a ton for MB, but we don’t have inside info on that.
Could it be considered “protecting your investment” if trading Bradley eliminated the risk of alienating a number of other Cubs as well as a large percentage of the fan base/revenue? Wouldn’t that protection add up to greater than one player and $20M? And if so, would that not be a better way to protect your investments? The Cubs did not ban MB from playing baseball. He is still able to work and he’s still being paid at the same rate.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
...
It just might take a while to see significant progress due to the behaviors MB has exhibited so far.
And it might not have. We don’t know. Chances are, because they didn’t try, the Cubs don’t know.
I’m not sure what exactly the point you are trying to make here is. I’m speaking in pretty hypothetical terms … i don’t think anything i’ve said is that controversial: I hope and wish, but do not believe, the Cubs did everything they could for MB in the mental health arena. If they didn’t do so (and we have no evidence that they did), shame on them – not only for not protecting their investment and trying to recoup some of what they spent on the guy, but for putting him in that position (yes, he put himself there too – but he didn’t offer himself a contract) and for not doing the right thing for an employee clearly in a bad spot mentally.
Zack Greinke, Dontrelle Willis, Khalil Greene and Joey Votto have all been placed on the DL for various mental disorders, ranging from depression to anxiety. Its fairly obvious MB has some mental ticks. I don’t know if the DL and some time with a doctor would have been appropriate for MB – i can’t know that, nor can anybody else here – but i do know it probably had about as great a chance of working in the teams favor as calling him a “piece of shit” and sending him home.
I understand that by the end of it, both sides just wanted to be done with each other. It shouldn’t have gotten to that point. It was a staggering misuse of $20,000,000, and everybody is to blame… not JUST Bradley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't blame Bradley for ANYTHING. (Find me a quote where I did.)
In fact, I didn’t blame anyone.
As I stated in my previous posts, my point was in defense of ScottT. You called into question his professionalism by asserting that he said Bradley was “untreatable.” That is not what he said. Stating that ScottT said that is unfair to him as it misrepresents what he actually did say.
Regarding your above statement: “I’m not sure what exactly the point you are trying to make here is.” – AndrewJStone (above)
Allow me to answer you with quotes from earlier in our discussion:
“My point was that ScottT was NOT claiming that MB was ‘untreatable,’ to use your phrase.” – Phubbies
“No one is saying MB’s untreatable.” – Phubbies
The first of those quotes directly states my point and the second is the header of one of my comments, summarizing my point. I hope this clarifies my point.
"It's Spring Training. You know how many home runs Barry Bonds hit off me? One - in Spring Training." - Big Z
They are symptoms of a problem
as he is engaging in blaming behavior rather than looking at his own actions and taking personal responsibility for his part of his year with the Cubs. This, as a counselor, tells me that he is not invested in the process of change because he is not taking any personal responsibility for what is happening. He’s being acted upon, rather than being a person that acts and whose actions have direct consequences.
You seem to be wanting to attribute things to me that I never wrote, such as he’s untreatable or counselors should refuse to see him.
I merely stated that he would have to want to change and take responsibility for his part for his difficult year in Chicago. I pointed out several documented instances of his blaming behavior (documented means that its not conjecture) and asked you if you had seen where he has taken that personal responsibility. If you can show me, I’m happy to be proven wrong. And yes, the Cubs need to take responsibility for their part, too. As you stated, we don’t know what the Cubs might have done.
That being said, if someone were to come to me for counseling, sat on the couch and did not want to participate, did not say anything and did not believe there was anything to change about themselves, then yes, I would refuse to continue working with them. Because it’s against our ethical code:
A licensee shall terminate a professional
counseling relationship when it is reasonably clear that the
client is not benefiting from the relationship. When
professional counseling is still indicated, the licensee shall
take reasonable steps to facilitate the transfer to an
appropriate referral or source.
As a counselor, there is no magic wand that I can wave to “fix” someone. The therapeutic process can be a long road even with the most willing participant. I got into this business because I believe that people can and do change. I want to be a tool people can use for part of that change process, so I think it would be obvious that I think therapy would assist MB, if he was willing to be an active participant.
I’ve felt this way for a while. In fact, I actually made a comment outlining a possible way MB could have stayed in Chicago after he was suspended. It was not well received, but it shows my belief that counseling COULD help MB
the fact that Milton has gone through anger management counseling
and is still the way he is, seems to prove your point as well
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
by Nunyabidness on Mar 26, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
They hire certain players translators...
… maybe that’s what the clubhouse needed… an MB translator.
But in all seriousness… some players have their own clubhouse attendants, some have their own trainers, some have their own drivers, others have specific doctors brought in to work with them. Teams do what they must to make their investments comfortable and productive. I never got the impression these attempts were made for Bradley.
Just because his unique needs were any more annoying or whatever doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have been prodded to get his mind right as to earn his contract. Nobody thought suspensions or calling him a “piece of shit” would accomplish that. Silva may yet turn out to be a nice surprise, but barring that bit of luck, the team may as well have just set a giant pile of $100 dollar bills on fire.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 19, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the point is
even he’s not insane enough to piss off Junior.
[...]when Giants coach Steve Owen, a certified defensive genius, was asked how he planned to stop Nagurski, he said: "With a shotgun, as he’s leaving the dressing room."
You really cant piss off Jr.
How about this guy?
Griff is just a really good egg. He is just out there havin a good time. A true class act (even with the jock strap story).
I'm Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart. Not her wart. Not her wart! I'm... I'm the wart. She's my tumor. My... my growth. My... uh, my pimple. I'm Uncle Wart. Just old Buck "Wart" Russell. That's what they call me, or Melanoma Head. - Uncle Buck
by Andiamo Cuccioli on Mar 19, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart. Not her wart. Not her wart! I'm... I'm the wart. She's my tumor. My... my growth. My... uh, my pimple. I'm Uncle Wart. Just old Buck "Wart" Russell. That's what they call me, or Melanoma Head. - Uncle Buck
by Andiamo Cuccioli on Mar 19, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
for some reason
I am hesitant to follow a jock strap link
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -- Yogi Berra
LOL
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on Mar 19, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Lmao. Very funny stuff.
Some men learn through what they read. Some men learn through what they're told. Some men have to piss on the railroad tracks. And some men keep on pissin'.
Well, at least most of us can count to three...
Because Milton Bradley still can’t
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
meh
Of all the controversies with MB last year, the incident in the Minnesota game was the most overplayed.
It was also posted two days ago in a FanShot.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sorry Al
Missed that one…been caught up in the NCAA Tournament action…I figured it had already been discussed though which is why I didn’t start a new FanShot for it…….which would have been embarrassing
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
The Bradley Pavlov Connection Lives ON
Well played sir
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we will go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
The Visceral Bradley Reaction
It’s amazing how even a nice story about Bradley can ignite a firestorm here.
If this Bradley story sets you off, you might as well see Ichiro in these pants
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
Japanese fashion statement?
There’s cycling shorts and then there’s obnoxious cycling shorts
Or is that being redundant?
"Baseball is almost the only orderly thing in a very unorderly world. If you get three strikes, even the best lawyer in the world can't get you off." ~ Bill Veeck
by Musicdude10 on Mar 23, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess if you're spared the crotch shot, it's OK
And it helps to have an MLB .333 BA in 9 seasons too.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 23, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
That's more fun
than he had the entire year with the Cubs. I guess him fading into the obscure, Seattle night is what’s best for him.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
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