Dear Tom....
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 1:41 PM CDT
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I don’t care if there’s other posts about this ….I want to make sure, if Ricketts reads BCB, he knows how I feel.
I’m sure gazillionaires don’t care what people think about them, but my love for you (Tom) has gone down a few notches.I am a 5-game-a-season fan at Wrigley, if I’m lucky. I wont be breaking your bank. I would never not go to a game because of signage. Nothing could stop me. My opinion is meaningless to you. I would boycott the advertisers however.
I also think some (not all) fans that go to games frequently may not appreciate the awesomeness of walking into the park and seeing the sheer beauty of the thing. I’m talking to you Tom. It’s like seeing the Grand Canyon, a Rembrandt, a ‘59 Cadillac Eldorado, flying over Chicago on a clear night, I don’t get to see those things very often but when I do I stare in wonder at them.
I’m throwing Blou into this cuz he generates comments; Blou thinks this signage is fine!….and now I’m apologizing to him for that. Sorry Blou And now I’m throwing in Milton Bradley for good measure; if clubhouse chemistry is so important why not ballpark chemistry? Was that too much of a reach?
The first time I got interested in baseball was when I saw Gehrig’s “luckiest man” speech years ago. I said to myself what the heck does baseball have that could make this guy feel lucky. I found out. I love every nuance of this sport. Nothing can ruin baseball/Cubs in my eyes, but parks can be ruined.
I’ve said it before, baseball brings tears to my eyes, happy and sad. This is bringing the latter. I’m begging on my (blogging) hands and knees not to put up that sign. Do something else.
Sincerely Yours, cooliogirl
p.s. please do not approve the Toyota sign
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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lol....oh god I'm so sorry everybody
I just tried to add to my post and deleted everything. I’m not all there today. sorry :(
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
I love your sentiments...
And I agree with them completely.
Unfortunately, I’ve also grown cynical enough over the years to realize that greed usually trumps idealism.
Prove me wrong, Tom.
So the Toyota sign would be at the park itself?
I thought it was going to be just in the highways, not at Wrigley. If Ricketts approves the billboard, where would it go?
by braziliancubsfan on Mar 21, 2010 2:37 PM CDT reply actions
there's pictures of it in some of the other posts about ads....
I dont know how to link you there, but you should be able to find them. ha, I might delete this whole site if I try!
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, I'm not going to post the pics again, but
If the Cubs could have the same payroll without ads, I’d gladly say no to ads. However, I don’t think that is the case.
Plus, ads at Wrigley Field aren’t new, and they were quite common in ballparks a couple of generations ago.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 2:59 PM CDT reply actions
Start rooting for the Cubs, and not Wrigley field
Jesus it is getting ridiculous. Why have you all fell in love with the cubs traditions? the Cubs have a losing tradition. I don’t give a shit what they do to Wrigley field as long as the Cubs win. For all I care the cubs could move to a new stadium called Toyota field and put advertising everywhere. Then give the players a quality clubhouse and add a ton of luxury boxes. Then they could stop playing on WGN and create their own network. I would love the Cubs to turn into the Yankees.
FIRE VDN
by gocubs526 on Mar 21, 2010 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
you know if you were an all powerful wizard....
and said “I will make the Cubs win a World Series but only if I move them to a new stadium and call it Toyota Field and I’m going to put advertising everywhere” I would say go ahead! I just dont think that guarantees a win. Plus I am all for ads.
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
I only care about winning a world series. Fans who get complain about keeping Wrigley “pristine” are worse than cardinal or sox fans. Sorry but peeing in a trough is not “pristine”. They should be allowed to put advertising on every inch of the ball park, and put up a damn video board somewhere so i can watch a replay for christ sakes. And if all that advertising and video boards, keeps you from going to the game, well dont worry because there are thousands of other people that will happily take your seat.
by TJ3117 on Mar 21, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If putting advertisements all over Wrigley would guarantee a WS...
..then I agree that I’d be all for it-problem is that we’ve seen time and time again that breaking the bank doesn’t necessarily insure post season success (or even get you to the post season at all).
by bluekoolaide on Mar 21, 2010 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
No, having more cash flow is obviously the answer to everything...
I just hope we don’t get too greedy with all of the WS rings we’re going to now start winning.
by bluekoolaide on Mar 21, 2010 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Understood & agree
But there IS something special about Wrigley.
"if clubhouse chemistry is so important why not ballpark chemistry?"
You might be right about that but for the opposite reason. Cub players have been complaining about the Wrigley amenities and the clubhouse for years, not to mention the fact that the cubs do not have the indoor batting facilities or training facilities that most modern ballparks have. Considering the Cubs play 81 games of their schedule at Wrigley might suggest that places them at a disadvantage amongst other teams in the league.
by troutfishin on Mar 21, 2010 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
ha! you got me there
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks! I appreciate that
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Same here!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 21, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
thanks VCF
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if I misunderstood your intent
You know I enjoy you here!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I know :)
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Even if you had your green beer 4 days late!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Green beer?
I don’t follow.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Different thread
She misunderstood something that I’d commented on and attributed it to beer and Hennessey (works for me).
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah, gotcha.
Thanks for explaining it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
S'alright
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Cooliogirl...
… you’re a valued member of this site. But really, isn’t this a little over the top? Begging? About an advertising sign?
I’m more concerned with winning. I love Wrigley Field and I want it to stay. If you want it to stay, you’re going to have to accept some changes.
In the grand scheme of things, I don’t care about this. Bring money to win. End of story.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on Mar 21, 2010 7:08 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Money doesn't guarantee winning though.
If it did the Yankees would win every year. Don’t get me wrong, it helps but it isn’t everything. Anyways, the Cubs are near the top of the payroll list anyways.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees when we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Mar 21, 2010 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Money gets you admission into the dance though.
If you don’t get into the dance, you can’t win the tournament.
It’s no coincidence that the Yankees and Red Sox have the highest payrolls in MLB and make the playoffs virtually every year.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Mar 21, 2010 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
While there can be reasonable discussion about this issue, I think the angst shown by some is too much. JMHO.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
are you comparing her feelings about the signage
to Doggie Stalkers passion about the tickets?
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
Not at all.
Different situations. Jessica’s passionate discussions about the tickets, are, IN MY OPINION, based on an incorrect reading of the facts.
Cooliogirl’s opinions are simply her feelings on the issue. There’s no right & wrong here. I have a different opinion and I suspect the Cubs are going to go more toward my feelings than hers — but she’s entitled to express hers, absolutely.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
me? over the top? never! :)
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That'll get a rec.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
What does adding signage have to do with Wrigley "staying"?
I imagine Wrigley generates more cash on its own than any stadium this side of New York City, with or without the Toyota sign. Moving to a stadium in the suburbs would be suicidal — Wrigley isn’t going anywhere.
It’s just about money, for better or worse.
Disagree...
…on whether Wrigley generates as much cash as any stadium besides the Yanks.
First of all, Wrigley has limited suites, and those are a HUGE revenue stream for the more modern stadiums. When it comes to tickets sales, signage, suites, concessions etc., I’d bet a lot of stadiums are taking in more than Wrigley.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The rooftops do add in some, though.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
They only get a piece of that...
…and without the suites the new stadiums have, they are leaving millions of dollars on the table each year.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
No argument there.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs do have suites
and charge a ridiculous premium for them relative to other places. The fact they want more of them doesn’t mean anything, in a relative sense.
You can’t look at suites in a vacuum. Sure, you can move to the suburbs and have more suites, but then you don’t have a tourist attraction to drive the sky-high prices on regular tickets (and importantly, near-zero volatility in attendance from May→August). Without Wrigley, the Cubs are no different than the White Sox — a quasi medium market team that relies on winning to drive attendance.
Wrigley is going nowhere, with or without Toyota signs. Every team in our division would sign in blood to have it.
You really think that if the Cubs didnt have Wrigley they'd be a "quasi medium market team that relies on winning to drive attendance?""
Chicago is the 3rd largest metro area in the United States, in no way is it a “quasi medium market.” Beyond that, what seperated the Cubs and White Sox is the fact that the Cubs games were shown damn near nationally on WGN, making their draw so much bigger than just the city of Chicago.
Wrigley Field is an incredible place, but to say that is the only reason that the Cubs have fans coming in is ridiculous. Does that explain why we are setting records down in Arizona for ST, or during our away games the attendance increases dramatically for that home team during the series?
The Cubs themselves are the draw, Wrigley Field is simply a nice addition.
As is usually the case, the truth lies somewhere in between.
My grandfather had seen MLB games across the country, and due to the aforementioned WGN coverate (my family is from Iowa) was a cubs fan. Seeing the Cubs was a big deal, and he had done so several times in his life on various vacations to see cousins in Texas, friends in Cali, during a military ceremony in DC… but never at Wrigley.
If you think that first time at Wrigley wasn’t a big deal for him, you’d be wrong. That’s not to say he wouldn’t have gone to see the cubs if they’d been playing at Tampax Field out in Naperville that same day, but there was something of an extra REASON to do it, just to say he’d been to Wrigley.
The same can be said for Lambeau, Fenway, Madison Square Garden. These are places where the actual building carries some meaning beyond the team it houses. Tours of Wrigley are 250% more expensive than the ones at Miller park… There is a reason for that.
Venues like MSG, although primarily meant to house sports, go on to be famous for other events – epic concerts, hockey, even football could eventually add to the Wrigley mystique beyond what the Cubs have done, but location (proximity to mass transit and some of the more densly populated neighborhoods in the country) does have some affect on that. The building IS and will continue to be a draw above and beyond the team, and there is a great deal of value in it. Its a landmark for a reason.
I don’t believe more advertising, in and of itself, will devalue preception, and moving the place certainly isn’t an option. More advertising HAS been added, tastefully. In the case of THIS particular sign though, if its anything like the picture that’s run in the media, they are doing it all wrong. They aren’t choosing its position or size to fit in to the park, they are choosing it to block a competing ad from gaining TV exposure. That’s a fine strategy, competitively. And i’m totally behind the “up revenue, it’ll help us up payroll!” argument. But everything that changes a field that my grandfather’s generation and MY generation both hold dear as thing of beauty, a true ode to the past, and a relatively “pure” place, should be carefully considered.
There is a look and feel to Wrigley – the brick, the ivy, the greens and grays and beige that make up what we are familiar with there. This giant red logo, placed not due to any eye-pleasing design plan or aesthetic reason, isn’t in keeping with that look and feel. And some of us feel that is unfortunate.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 23, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, it looks like Deadspin said it better than i did.
Wrigley Field is one of the most beautiful places on earth, a landmark that Conan O’Brien sprinted through during “Surrender” to show he was in the Midwest, where Jim Belushi tackled Mark Grace in Taking Care of Business (before Grace joined the Village People), where Ferris Bueller took his day off. It stands for mid-America, and history, and baseball itself. Wrigley Field is immortal. The Cubs, and their stadium, are a national institution. Even if they’re thinking of putting up a hideous Toyota sign in left field.
http://deadspin.com/5498446/chicago-cubs-this-is-the-golden-age
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 23, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually , Andrew, I like yours better.
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 23, 2010 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
The Deadspin article was pretty funny.
Except for the fact that he got almost all the attendance stuff wrong.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Im not sure about the somewhere inbetween - we pretty much agree 100%
When you said your Grandfather would have gone to Tampax Field in Naperville, that’s entirely my point. He’s a Cubs fan, and if there were no Wrigley Field, he’d still be a Cubs fan.
Now, when I said Wrigley Field is a nice addition, obivously it finalizes the Cubs experience – it’s a beautiful park with a great feel. But it doesn’t make or break the team an individual chooses to follow.
WGN didn't sell the Cubs, they sold Wrigley!
You’re missing the point about the WGN factor. Generations of kids are growing up Cubs fans since the early 80s, not because they see the Cubs baseball team on TV and say ’I want that team to win" or “I sure like that Mark Grace” — but because they see Wrigley Field, and the rooftops, and the Ivy, and the scoreboard, and say “I WANT TO BE A PART OF THAT EXPERIENCE.”
TBS provides a perfect control group to prove the point. TBS had an even broader reach than WGN for 25 years, and created a lot of Braves fans, but attendance at Fulton County Stadium and now Turner Field has been terrible. The Cubs gate is all about Wrigley.
Wrigley...
…has drawing power, no question, but you are giving too much credit to the park as to why the Cubs have drawn like they have in the last 2 decades.
What was attendance like for the Cubs before 1984? I think the ballpark was still magical in the 1950’s, 1960’s and 1970’s (especially with all the cookie cutter ball parks that evolved in the 60’s), but the place was half empty many games even with WGN having years under their belts pumping them out accross the country. It wasn’t until the Cubs would have the periodic taste of success – 84, 89, 98, 03, 07 & 08 that the tickets started to increase in demand.
Their is nothing like winning to spur interest in any team, and if the Cubs went into an extended period where they were not competitive, the allure of Wrigley wouldn’t be able to save the gate.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Attendance, obviously, peaked in the late 60's...
… with the contending teams. They set an attendance record in 1969 — breaking the record that had been set 40 years earlier in 1929.
Attendance dropped in the mid 70’s, peaked again briefly with the pseudo contenders of 1977, 1978 and 1979, then dropped off again until 1984.
After that, with the reach of the team on WGN, it did better, although still dropped in non contending years. That all ended after 2003.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Although it threatened to start again after 2006
Had they not spent significant $.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 24, 2010 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally couldn't agree with you less.
That’s your opinion, and that’s fine, but I personally believe you are way off base here.
The Cubs play in a major market divided by 2
If you take the Chicago media market and divide it in half, welcome to Cleveland.
This is one of the silliest things i've read here.
You really think the Cubs get “only half” of the media attention in Chicago? And isn’t this argument invalid based on the fact that every other major market has two teams as well? Do the Yankees play in “a major market divided by two” because of the Mets? The Dodgers because of the Angels? Heck no. In each case there is clearly a team with the upper hand in the local attention department.
This says nothing of the national attention the Cubs get due to WGN and an abundance of Fox / ESPN games that Cleveland doesn’t get.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 23, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You're using some circular logic there
You’re saying the Cubs don’t play in a market divided in half because the Cubs get more attention. But they get more attention because* of WGN and Wrigley Field and the larger fan base it has driven, which was the original point. Wrigley, infused with the promotional engine of WGN, drives outsized attention and dollars relative to the natural market size. Which is why Wrigley isn’t going anywhere, with or without Toyota signs.
This goes back to the original comment that the Cubs need signs to “stay in Wrigley” — which is not true. If the landmarks commission denied them more signs for the next 100 years, they’d still be playing in Wrigley.
No.
Sorry man, these sort of arguments betray that you either don’t live in chicago, or are ignorant to how it works.
I think we can all agree that the north side generally sides with the cubs, and the south side is for the sox. Other than that – this is NOT an equally divided city. Which “part” of the city do you think contains more people? Which set of fans do you think is generally more affluent? Which group would the average advertiser rather reach?
All other things being equal, your argument stands. But all other things are NOT equal. The cubs have a bigger pool to pull fans from on the North Side than the Sox do to the south. The Cubs have a fanbase with more expendable income, which allows the team many luxuries the Sox can’t afford. The cubs have NUMEROUS advantages over the Sox because the city is NOT equally divided between the two teams by anything other than some abstract North vs South rivalry.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 24, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Since I don't think I disagree with anything you've said in this entire thread...
… I obviously haven’t made my point very well — too theoretical for this format, I think. I’m having trouble following your argument too, and it’s obvious you know what you’re talking about.
For the record (if I must), I’m a life-long Cubs fan, lived in Lakeview for 6 years and have read more than a few geeky ass books on Chicago’s history and socioeconomics (because that’s how I roll), so trust me, the points you’re making are Chicago 101 and I get them.
This could not be more wrong. I mean, seriously?
by Ozzie Montana on Mar 23, 2010 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The metropolitan population of Chicago is 9.5 million, third-ranked in the USA. Take half of that — 4.75 million — and it would still rank tenth, just ahead of Boston. Cleveland’s metro area ranks 26th.
The media reach of half the Chicago market would still be far larger than Cleveland, or in fact, most of the top 20 markets.
Link to Wikipedia list of USA metro area populations
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Guys, media market size is not defined by population
Typically, you use TV households.
According to media info center, Chicago has 3.4M TV households (LA has 2/3 more, NYC more than twice as many).
If the Cubs and Sox split the market evenly (roughly speaking, the natural market size of each club before competition), the Cubs would own about the same number of households as the Cleveland Indians, or even closer, Detroit.
Now of course each city with two teams has a dominant team, but in New York and LA it’s defined only by first mover advantage — the Dodgers and Yankees were there first. Chicago has two teams that have been around roughly the same amount of time and had roughly equal success. The only difference is stadium and geography, both of which are lost if you remove Wrigley from the equation (again – this is back to the original point that the Cubs need signage to stay in Wrigley, which they don’t.)
Please don't lecture me on media market size.
I know all about it as someone who’s been in the media for 30 years.
In any case, your theory is wrong. No team in a two-team market “splits” the market. And even if they do, the Cubs are clearly the dominant team in Chicago both in fan support and media coverage.
Your note about Cleveland/Detroit isn’t right, either. Detroit is closer to half the Chicago market in HH — Cleveland has about 15% fewer, five notches down the list.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Just reacting to your population citation...
in the discussion of media market size. No lecture intended, and defer to your experience.
Are you really nitpicking my citation of Cleveland because it’s 15% off, though? Geez, tough audience! We’re still talking sports here, right? ;)
First, you weren't debating "media market size", you were debating "market size".
You can’t move the goalposts.
And if you really want to compare DMAs, you should probably read up a little more on how they work. First problem – there are 210 of them across the nation – far more than there are MLB teams. Only taking the “Chicago” DMA in to account as it compares to other markets is silly. The Cubs and Sox aren’t looking to rule the “Chicago” DMA, they are looking to rule multiple DMAs across the midwest.
Look man, we all get your point – Wrigley can be partially credited for the charm and popularity of the Cubs. We all agree. You are just overstating it, assuming the city is divided equally, that established fans would move on if Wrigley wasn’t the Cubs home park, that the whole thing would come crumbling down and we’d be the Brewers if the team moved to the burbs. It simply isn’t true. The cubs share a unique set of advantages that only a few other teams share – Wrigley’s allure is one, but not even one of the most important.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 24, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
This is pretty much spot on.
I hate to be rude, but it seems like Ryan D. just finished a marketing course and didn’t quite grasp all of the material.
I WAS talking about media market size
But again, don’t disagree with anything in this post
The Worst thing about this Sign is
I don’t think the Cubs really want to put up the sign. It obviously is a block to the Horseshoe Casino sign. If the Cubs could negotiate a deal with Horseshoe Casino, there would be no Toyota sign.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
Bravo Cooliogirl!
I appreciate your passion on this subject. One of the beauties of Wrigley Field over the years has been that it is ALL ABOUT BASEBALL. Yes, people drink beer and enjoy the scenery, but I see that as part of the game. Seeing a bunch of ads is not Wrigley.
To those telling her to stop or to get over it, until you can prove that putting up more advertisements will make us a better team, I’m not buying it. Let people be passionate about Wrigley. The Cubs and Wrigley go hand in hand and will until they no longer play there.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
Advertisements= Money
More money= better players
better players= more wins
more wins= more playoffs
more playoffs= more championships
Get it? If the Cubs need more money then they should take advantage of advertisements. It’s the right thing to do.
FIRE VDN
I agree.
There’s no one more passionate about Wrigley than I am. In addition to what gocubs526 says, keep this in mind: more revenue at Wrigley means a renovated Wrigley. That costs money, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
i am split on the topic
if making the park look like the yellow pages means a dynasty of championship runs that the Yankees are jealous of i am all for it
i wish that instead of making it look like a phone book, it is done with careful consideration, like how the lights were done to fit the park so that it will not take away from the experience
so there is my feelings, and yes i am split based on those two feelings about it
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
it's a $140 million dollar payroll.
What players are out there that we’re going to get with this sign? Who is available?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 21, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Right now? No one.
Do you think that they might have taken a flier on one of the FA second basemen available had there been room in the budget? Perhaps a reliever or two?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
or made a move for Granderson
Halliday, Cliff Lee, or others if there were more payroll available to do so
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
or
A_AM LIN_
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 21, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
there is always a way to make money for him
Harris Bank would be willing to give him namings rights to Adam Lind Bank while he is a Cub and he can have access to all monies in each bank with no need to return a dime
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
getitdonejim
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 21, 2010 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
getitdonejim
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 22, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
that did not work
lets try it again!
getitdonejim1
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 22, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
alas, i have been bested by sbnation
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 22, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
For whatever reason, text in the body does that
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
But not in the subject lin eOMG get itd one!1!1!!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
text
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 22, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
:)
I mean the “!”‘s and “1”’s.
111
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
And actually, I'm wrong by saying "no one"
Heath Bell might be available.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
his price skyrocketed the second nathan got hurt
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 21, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
If they come up with a lot more advertising and the Cubs are in 1st or
2nd place or near the top of the wild card standings at the trade deadline and the Cubs don’t spend the money to fill a need or make the team better for the stretch run, then you guys can scream all you want about the advertising because then you would be right that it is all about the Ricketts family bottom line instead of helping this team win win win!!
But until then, let’s just go with the flow and see what happens.
Um...
We’re all on board with ads. And that is one heck of a run-on sentence.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions
If you want someone to read what you wrote
It should be readable.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Je ne sais pas plus, moi-même.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I am sorry Grammar King
I didn’t know a run on sentence constitutes as a foreign language and unreadable.
Again, I apologize, and please forgive me your royal highness.
Grow a skin, dude.
You are making this out to be way more than it is.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey look! You did better that time!
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 22, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Mar 22, 2010 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I suppose I could have explained that I was just messing around the first time, but I didn’t think BOTH would have been taken serioiusly.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Womit du sicher nicht Unrecht hast.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
I had to read this twice.
It turns out I don’t speak that language, even though I can read it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I know.
Just wish I could have seen it the first time around. Ah well, my eyes aren’t what they used to be….
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
You're not even 30!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
And your proof for this is...?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 23, 2010 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Um...you told us?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
You can stay up past midnight?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions
The Cubs already have one of the biggest payrolls in baseball.
Money isn’t the problem. The problem is the Cubs have a fortune locked up with a few guys who aren’t all that great. Maybe if they’d had the Toyota sign a few years ago Hendry could have afforded to sign Soriano to a fifteen year contract, huh?
So more money is bad?
Being able to eat some of those contracts would be bad?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
More money = Better Players?
Hmmm so we should have more wins than anyone but Boston, NY, or the Mets, right?
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
by HoSs. on Mar 21, 2010 11:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Not necessarily
But no money = fewer good players
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
And...
since when do the Cubs have no money?
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
You are purposely being obtuse to suit your argument
See WMHG’s comment below.
Anyone who claims that a team is not more likely – not guaranteed – to have sucess by spending money is either being disingenuous or incredibly naive.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Doesn’t get any simpler for those who can’t grasp the concept.
If somehow the Ricketts decided not to increase advertising and such to increase revenue streams, they would have no other option but to increase tickets and concessions.
I am not saying that by adding this advertising, the price of tickets won’t go up, but they won’t go up as much.
I am sure it has been said a bunch of times, but this family has put in a lot of hard earned $$ into this team in very uncertain economic times, so we have to cut them some slack. The last thing we want is them to start losing $$ and have to sell, and if that happens, all the players would be sold off too.
For those who think a fire sale would be good as in look what it did for the Marlins, they sold off all their players and restocked their farm system with A+ talent and made a WS run a few years later. Personally I don’t think Jim Hendry and his scouts would be able to accomplish such a feat if necessary. ( though I must give him and his scouts credit, they seem to be doing much better as of late but we still don’t have a big star in the show producing day in and day out)
So increase ticket prices
Fans are clearly expressing that Wrigley is a premium experience, so they should have to pay a premium. It’s basic market economics.
There is a 100K waiting list, so obviously prices are too low.
That's what I was lead to believe
But have the Cubs been selling out every home game for the past couple of years?
I thought the Redsox are the only ones who sold out every home game last year.
Anyone have the breakdown?
Here is the percentage of capacity played to at Wrigley the last few years
2009: 96.3%
2008: 99.1%
2007: 97.7%
2006: 94.9%
2005: 98.0%
2004: 98.9%
2003: 93.6%
2002: 87.2%
Obviously, the long playoff run in 2003 and the anticipation of more drove attendance for a couple of years. The 2006 team’s fall cut that back a little, only to see it increase in 2007 and 2008, and drop off a little last year.
I think you could say that’s essentially selling out every game since 2004. Only the Red Sox have drawn a higher percentage of capacity every year since then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The Cubs could sell out evey game if they wanted to
They artificially limit the number of season tickets to create single game tickets, in order to keep more fans connected to the brand.
They could sell 10,000 more season tickets tomorrow.
And a lot of it
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll repeat what I said earlier
And I apologize if it insults anyone:
Anybody who doesn’t want advertisements/signs/etc at Wrigley Field clearly never took a single business class in college. Because if you did, you would obviously understand that Chicago Cubs are a BUSINESS and the goals of a business is to make the most money. Plus this money is going back to the team and not just the Ricketts pocket.
I'm for advertising at Wrigley that is more in keeping with the
architecture of the park – like the arcs of the light standards for example. The Toyota sign looks like something that was pulled off the Tri-State Tollway to be thrown up above the left field bleachers.
Businesses do try to make as much money as they can but not if it means alienating a large segment of their loyal customers. If the Cubs have a brand it’s that of an historically inept team that plays in a gorgeous old-school baseball park. The park is a huge attendance insurance policy that makes up for bad seasons brought on by incompetence in the front office, by players, managers etc… Maybe no one will care about the ugly sign. But once you’ve thrown up something that big and ugly, almost anything else is in play. The Toyota sign has lowered the bar to the ground.
Very true
But there are many people on here who want no advertising whatsoever and that’s ridiculous.
Who doesn't want ANY advertising?
I haven’t heard anyone say they don’t want ANY advertising.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 21, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I've certainly never said that
Plaster ads all over the front of the upper deck if you want to.
I just think the proposed sign is uniquely awful, and disrupts the beautiful lines of the park.
Although the yellow CBOE lettering is still pretty hideous, I must say. Could we not have sold that in white? Or blue?
This, i agree with wholeheartedly.
The ads are not the issue. They are a fact of modern stadium viewing. Its this particular one – and its odd look – that are the point of contention.
Look, the Toyota thing isn’t being designed like it is to “look” good. Its the way it is to block that Horseshoe ad. Fair enough, Cubs. But its still ugly and detracts from the Wrigley experience in ways something more subtle and in line with Wrigley’s current look may not.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on Mar 23, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
What I find interesting is the position from where the "artist's rendering" was drawn
Seems like the viewpoint is from the seats behind 1st base somewhere.
Yes, the Toyota logo blocks a little of the Horseshoe ad, but it’s mostly off-center to the left. I think that angle was intentional in an attempt to deflect any suggestion that this effort is all about blocking the ad. Of course it’s a futile attempt and is fooling nobody, but sometimes you have to go through the motions when you’re in the public eye.
I suspect that if that same rendering were drawn from where the primary TV camera angle is behind home plate/1st base line, you’d see the logo and TOYOTA right smack dab in the middle of HORSESHOE.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I want to make this clear, I am not against advertising at Wrigley,
I just think it should be done with more taste, more integrity and more class than what’s done at other parks!
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
I'm on board with that, especially after I saw the rendering!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
We don't know if the rendering will be exactly what it looks like.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
True, but...
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
But it's ugly...and that was her point - not advertisement itself.
I didn’t realize that until she said so above.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
wouldn't you say that more often than not
the rendering ends up looking better than whatever was built?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm not really sure how one advertises with taste, integrity, and class
Those seem like totally subjective words to me. I could say I find the new Toyota ad very tasteful, and my opinion would be worth just as much as yours, wouldn’t it?
Wrigley isn’t going to be ruined by a single ad put up in left field. Not any more than it’s ruined by the now-obscured casino ad (are casinos tasteful and classy?) or the UnderArmor ads or the Chevy ads on the dugouts or the Pepsi ads that are flashed constantly across the scoreboard in center.
Wrigley is a beautiful park because of the ivy and the brick walls and the architecture and the old-fashioned scoreboard. As long as that all stays intact, the rest doesn’t really matter.
I need your discipline / I need your help / I need your discipline / You know once I start I cannot stop myself...
by mojowo11 on Mar 22, 2010 3:04 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
This also will get a rec.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
this is one of the biggest reasons
i dislike reading comments or fanposts on this site. i just don’t understand the logic behind not wanting the Cubs to earn every penny they can outta advertisers. And when does the whole “wrigley exprience” end? how about they just do whatever it takes to win a world series????
And when does the whole "wrigley exprience" end?
It doesn’t. That’s the point.
Money isn’t going to win a WS.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 21, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
um
didnt the yankees have have the highest payroll last year? and give me one reason why money would hurt the teams chances at winning a world series.
I dont want to speak for anyone here, but
Isn’t it true that the Cubs have the 3rd largest payroll, doesnt that count for something? And no one is saying that money would hurt the Cubs chances of winning the WS. That’s ridiculous. I think you also misunderstood (my fault) that I want no ads, that’s not true either.
sorry you didn’t like the post
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 21, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
They've had the highest payroll for decades
have they won EVERY World Series?
The Mets have the 2nd highest payroll. They have what, two rings?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 21, 2010 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
While it's true that spending money certainly won't guarantee winning a championship, it's
almost certain that not spending money will guarantee that you won’t win a championship.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Mar 22, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
As Daver might say, ↑This↑
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Did you get those arrows from Cupid?
How do you do that?
"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Mar 22, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Press and hold "ALT" and type 24 on the number pad
↑
☺
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
↑thanks↓
^_^
"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Mar 22, 2010 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I think shift-6 also works.
^
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I just copy-n-paste from the bottom of the page
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ah, yes
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions
well, of course.
but we’re spending money. Lots of it.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 22, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
it's funny
because I’ve said many times before that the fans have no direct impact.
Yes, TJ. I’m Tom Ricketts.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 22, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
The Yankees have 27 championships.... are we REALLY going to nitpick about NINE years difference?
Let’s face it, no, the highest payroll doesnt win you a WS every year, but it gives you a shot, and if I could win 27 out of the next 100 WS, I’d be a VERY happy camper.
Also a very old camper.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
LMAO
However, Ryan D has a point. Having the highest payroll from 2001-2008 got them entry into the playoffs in seven of those eight years. It did NOT guarantee them a World Series win, though.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, but I actually am more in bdlugz's "camp" on this
There are no guarantees to winning, certainly. But the better your team is, the better your shot at it is.
The Twins, the A’s of the early to mid 90’s are good stories because they aren’t common – small payroll and competitive. It’ll continue to happen, but the Yankees go into every season with a legitimate shot at winning the World Series. Their payroll is a significant part of that.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Not denying that.
Just the claim (not necessarily made by you nor anyone else here) that a huge payroll guarantees you a World Series.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Agreed on that point.
Just disagreeing with the counter (not necessarily made by you) that the Yankees didn’t win every year, e.g. a large payroll is meaningless.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
This is my point exactly.
Once you get to the playoffs, anything can happen – it’s a 5 game series, and if you’re lucky 2 more 7 game series. Those are pretty small sample sizes and the best team does not always win.
Over the course of 162 games, the best teams will typically make it to the top of the pack, at least do well enough to make the playoffs. As Al said, 7 out of 8 years would be a very nice number to look at moving forward.
Right.
And even though the lesser team can win more frequently in a shorter series, the better team still has a better CHANCE going in.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I'm not saying it's meaningless.
Obviously, it gives you a shot by getting you there most every year. That should be the Cubs’ goal, and I believe it is.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, I know you see it that way.
Not everyone does.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
not to nitpik but
how is it fair to voice your opinion and say that voicing opinions is why you dont like reading comments? isnt your comment nothing more than you voicing your opinoin as well. i guess if its ok for you to voice yours, it should be ok for others to voice theirs, even if you dont agree with them
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
It's a bit analagous to posting "This fanpost is a waste of my time"
Isn’t it?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I have mentioned this a time or two but...
WS or not I would give my eye teeth for the Cubs to have a NEW… ACCESSIBLE… CLEAN… MODERN… ballpark…
I love the Cubs… been a Cubs fan for as long as I can remember… Things like seeing Ernie hit 500 on TV in B&W…
The 84 team…
Woodies 20K game…
I hate Wrigley Field…
Public Transportation is not an option unless I wanna waste 3 hrs getting there…
It’s a PITA to get to from the burbs… I have to drive…
Parking for a wheelchair lift equipped van stinks on ice…
The seating locations are either a PITA to get to or are a great way to
study the backsides of the people in front of me as soon as anything
exciting happens on the field.
I won’t even get into how lousy the bathrooms are in a chair…
I would love to see them get a new stadium… One with the same playing field
dimensions as Wrigley with a new shell around it… Parking… access to public
transportation that everyone can use… REAL handicapped seating…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
It won't happen.
The Ricketts have committed to rebuilding Wrigley so it can last several more generations.
I believe there will be improvements in the areas you mention, except for the transportation. There’s only one way to fix that, and that’s to build a suburban stadium. I doubt most people would be in favor of that.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Good luck with that...
You do know that Wrigley is actually easy to access via public transportation compared to most parks?
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
by HoSs. on Mar 21, 2010 11:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would say, in Endrick's defense...
… the CTA isn’t exactly known for handicap-friendly bus and train access. That’s his issue.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly...
last I checked it would take 2 trains and 2 bus rides to get within 4 blocks of Wrigley…
Metra to Downtown…
Then one of the RTA lines to the Northside,
Then cause the closest station to Wrigley is not accessable you take 2 different buses…
I’d rather have my spleen removed with a spoon…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I thought the Addison station was made accessible with the recent renovation.
It does now have an elevator.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not sure...
I checked a couple years ago…
I’ve been too broke to go…
Unemployed sucks… LOL…
I will say one thing… I love the Italian ice they sell…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I am fairly certain that the Addison red line stop has a elevator
Of course the 5000 people pouring out of the train at once are a whole other accessibility issue
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
*chuckles*
Only for them if they get in my way…
The chair and I weight 400+ lbs…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
depends on where you're coming from.
I can get a bus at the Yorktown plaza that pulls up in front of Wrigley.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 22, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Help Me Understand
So you’re upset at Wrigley because they have a lack of public transportation from Elgin, IL? 36.4 miles and 54 minutes of normal drive time and we’re pissed off that you have to take a couple of buses and trains?
Your frustrations with your handicap are not lost and I give you all of the credit in the world because this world is not very accommodating, however, you have a lot more options to get to Wrigley than most people have to get anywhere.
And furthermore, to hear a Cub fan say that they hate Wrigley makes me want to puke…nothing personal.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
Tell ya what...
Go rent yourself a wheelchair, electric or manual cause it really doesn’t matter, and try and get around Wrigley and see a game…
Then tell me hating a park that was built just 10 years after the Wright Brothers took their first flight is bad…
Have fun with the ramp down to the lift up to the seating behind first base. It’s very very steep… I’ve wanted to bring a sherpa with me to use the ramp. same with the ramps up or down to the seating behind first and third. Or you can have fun watching the LEVI logos on the backsides of the other fans…
I’m all for the Ivy and the manual score board and all the things that make Wrigley unique in an age of cookie cutter staduims… but the amenities and accessibility are not even close to being in even the late 20th Century…
If the Ricketts came out and said we are going to preserve the wall surrounding the field, the score board, the Ivy and all the things, other than the surrounding building…
New Club house with 21st century facilities for our players, the visitors, and fans…
you would hear a cheer from Elgin like you have never heard…
and My displeasure is not the drive… I love to drive…
it’s the lack of handicapped parking… it’s the 3 hours last I checked to take public transportation, that if the route was direct rather than waiting to keep changing modes of transportation, would be more like an hour and a half, it’s the jury rigged handicapped stalls…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I won't begin to think I understand the logistical challenges you face getting to Wrigley...
…but assuming at some point you do get to Wrigley again, are you aware there is wheelchair seating in the bleachers? In center field, right above the batter’s eye area (where all the juniper bushes used to be), there is a covered area where several wheelchairs can be accommodated.
Of course, being out in center field, you are kinda far away from the action (the on-the-field action that is) but on the bright side, you wouldn’t have to worry about any LEVI logos getting in the way. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
My guess is...
… that in a renovated Wrigley, there will be better wheelchair seating. Obviously, the current seating area was built long before the ADA.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Actually no...
Now Bleacher seats… I am so there…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Since the bleachers seem to appeal to you, here's another option to consider
I’m less certain about this one, but I’m pretty sure there are also several wheelchair spots over in right field, behind what’s commonly referred to as the “bleacher boxes”. These spots are right on the concourse walkway so they’re not as separated away from fan traffic as the covered area in center field, but depending on what kind of bleacher experience you’re looking for, this might be a good thing. ;-)
Not sure, but I don’t think Levi logos will be an issue either. If memory serves, the top row of the bleacher boxes is a step down from the concourse, so folks sitting there would not be in your way (unless it’s someone with Marge Simpson hair…)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ballhawk is correct.
There are two separate wheelchair areas in the bleachers, right where he says.
In addition, there’s now an elevator in the bleachers, so you can easily get to the seating area from the entrance.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And that's all valid
But you have to remember that you are the extreme minority. I’m not looking past your circumstances because I feel for you. But at the same time, not every place is going to be the best place for wheelchairs to access.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
I know... and I'm not offended or anything...
But I also know I am not the only wheelchair user fan…
I know it sound like I am only talking about Me, but there are a couple million
fans with needs like mine…
I hate to make comparisons cause someone will jump my a** for it, but
I’ve been to the Cell a few years ago if the Cubs built something like it…
Not a carbon copy…
but something modern and new…
I would be so happy… not just for myself but for all the folks who also
have issues with seeing what is on the field and getting around…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Have you ever heard of the Park and Ride from Woodfield Mall?
Best way to get to/from Wrigley Field. You just need to go to Woodfield, and find the shuttle to Wrigley. You don’t even have to worry about parking in Wrigleyville.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions
yes, but...
I’m in an electric wheelchair and to steal a quite from someone a few days ago…
I Hate public transportation with the fury of 1000 suns…
I have a van and a license so I don’t have to ride PT…
if I lived in the city it would be easier but from Elgin… not so much…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Yeah, I realized that after I posted that.
It would be hard, I wish there was some way you could make it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Well working on the assumption...
That I am working soon I would love to come out and meet some of my fellow Cubs fans…
I still love the Cubs… I’ll still come to Wrigley… I still live and die a little each time they get this close (holds fingers barely apart) to the promised land of the WS…
I’m just not a fan of early 20th century architecture…
Well… except Frank Lloyd Wright…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
boy, that sounds extremely frustrating...
and I can see your point. You know I think I read somewhere, probably here, I searched but couldn’t find it, that part of the fan experience directors job will be to make the trips to Wrigley from different parts of the city. It would be nice to know they were including handicap accessablility in their studies. I wonder if there is a way to find that out or to even to suggest it?
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 22, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
I wish I knew...
I would love to talk to someone about it…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
This isn't one I feel passionately about.
An advertisement in the outfield (essentially) blocking an advertisement across the street? Toyota instead of a casino? Meh.
I think the point here is that there are lines that are completely subjective/personal about things like this. I’d be upset if the Cubs instituted PSLs or put logos on players’ uniforms, and selling naming rights to the park would kinda sting … but I bet there would be others who think that such steps are OK — if they help the Cubs win.
Money doesn’t guarantee success, but low payroll teams have a harder time reaching the postseason and the WS (will anyone really argue that?). And, the argument that the Cubs already have the third-highest payroll doesn’t really wash, because the other high payroll teams are constantly looking for new revenue, too.
If I thought a stupid sign...
…would reduce the Cubs chances of winning a championship, I would be against it.
Since that is clearly not the case, I could not only care less about addings signs (or selling naming rights, etc. etc.), I hope Ricketts can find as much dough as he can to both strengthen the organization, and to get an adequate return on the money his family put on the table.
Something tells me, if it was your family that put up about $400 million cash, and also took on $500 million in debt, you would probably feel a little differently about this.
I love Wrigely Field as much as the next guy, but I would love a long term consistent winner (with some championships tossed in there) even more.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Amen brother
Wrigley Field is a ballpark, not a God-damned museum. It is home ballpark to a franchise that should have as its primary strategic purpose to win a World Series championship and to be routinenly competitive.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
As long as we got Tom on the line...
I’d like to add that I like the idea of handheld devices rather than a jumbotron. The thought of a distracting jumbotron bothers me a lot more than this sign. It sounds like an ideal solution.
Also can we ditch the blue softball jerseys?…at least at home games?
Thanks.
"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Mar 22, 2010 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Same here
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
IDK...
I kinda like the tye dye uni’s someone posted…
They could wear them as a Woodstock tribute and have Phish do a concert
after a 1:20 start time game…
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
let's see... so that would mean the Phish concert starts at 4:20?
yeah, that sounds about right…. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Or...
Just allow Iphones and other devices to function properly while there.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
They don't work there?
That stinks. I don’t have an iphone so idk.
Also, I’m one of those people that roll their eyes behind the backs of people that are playing with their phones and and wondering why they don’t just watch the game. Not that I care what they do. It doesn’t bother me. I just think it’s funny. That’s kind of why I like the handheld idea because it would seem a great way for people that want the information to get it, but not distract the people that don’t.
"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes
by katie casey on Mar 22, 2010 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
They need to give the stadium a wi-fi so all the
damn iPhones (mine included) aren’t using what little AT&T 3G bandwidth is in the area.
may addition by subtraction be real
The reason given during "Ask Cubs Business Management"
Was that there was an issue with rodents eating through the AT&T antenna.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Who's going to tell Z to stop wearing those blue jerseys???
Not me.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees when we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on Mar 22, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
And Z banished him to the Blackhawks!
But in all honesty, McDonough is the 2nd best thing that happened to that organization (Hawks) next to Rocky taking over.
OK, maybe I'm trying to walk the fence again...
but I’ll make the same point I always make when this debate comes up. And I always make this point because I think the majority of REASONABLE fans agree with this. More than anything, I want the Cubs to win the World Series. The sooner the better, and once we do win it all, I want to win it all again, many times over. That must be the number one priority. However, I also love Wrigley Field. I love the history, I love it’s beauty, and as a afficianado of baseball history, I wish it still looked identical to the way it did in 1938. However, as a realist, I recognize that in 21st century pro sports, this is simply impossible. And you know what, look at photos of the interior and exterior of Wrigley from 1937 on….it’s still perfectly recognizable today, and looks pretty darn close to the way it always has.
The lights, the bleacher renovations, the signage, and the theme park neighborhood have not changed the fun and excitement of going there for me, and neither will anything else. I don’t like new signage. New signage does not guarantee a world championship. However, sitting on our hands and not trying new things and not being open-minded virtually guarantees we will not win a world championship. I wish it didn’t have to be that way, but that’s the truth and reality of being a baseball fan in 2010, as opposed to 1950. The economics of the game are what they are. We’re a major market, and we have to act like one.
However, having said that, now a simple message to the “winning is the only thing that matters” side: if you’ve read this entire post, you know I agree with you. However, I hope we all appreciate the fact that we have one of two remaining ballparks left in all of baseball that is a true treasure, and a true time capsule that represents all that is good about the great game of baseball. The same ballpark where our parents, and grandparents, and in some cases, great-grandparents rooted for the Cubs. No doubt, I want the Cubs to win it all. But if it were just desserts, and in a perfect world, I want them to win one while they still are playing in Wrigley Field.
All I ask of the owners is that they respect the ballpark, and from what I have seen so far, I honestly believe they do. Keep renovating, keep re-modeling. Just keep the ballpark in its current location, and please try to keep the name of park “Wrigley Field”. But above all, try to win. Sorry to sound like Henry Clay, folks, but this arguing is getting ridiculous. We all want the Cubs to win, and we all love Wrigley Field. It’s possible to love both. Sorry to have taken up so much of your time. Carry on, have a nice day, and Go Cubs!
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Mar 22, 2010 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I love this....and I rec'd it...Go Cubs
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 22, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Pass the vomit bag
Oh how I am sick and tired the sanctimonious mamby pambys and their sickening affection for “the ballpark.” Screw winning, screw focus on what is truly important. Fortunately, this crowd is in the extreme minority.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Here you go.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Well to be honest...
We still don’t yet know how free the Ricketts are going to be with their purse strings. We’re all still operating under a Tribune mindset and remember it’s only in the last decade or so that the payroll has ballooned to over 120mm when the Trib was trying to inflate the value of the team. When you don’t have a corporation’s billions (bankrupt or not) you have a much more solid budgetary limit to keep in view. The Ricketts are “only” worth 1.8 billion or so, total. They invested almost half of their family net worth on the Cubs. While I of course feel nostalgic for Wrigley tradition as much as any 28 year old can, I am all for generating cash flow in an intelligent way to ensure the sustainability of a healthy payroll and ensure that this family owns the team for a long time.
Additionally the Ricketts have stated that 100% of the revenue is going to be reinvested in the team. That by itself is awesome and really should show dividends in the next decade when we’re able to sign the Strasburgs and Aroldis Chapman’s to high signing bonuses as well as offer competitive free agent signings for a long time to come. I want them to build a hundreds of millions deep reservoir of cash because for every alabtross contract, there may be a brilliant long-term contract a la Todd Helton (147 mm for 9 years).
That includes creating revenue everywhere. New spring training digs with, yes Al, expensive clothing and food, the new triangle facility, smart and well thought out advertising, and other ideas not yet thought of. It is for a cause and that cause is for people like our parents and grandparents to see a world series in their lifetimes, not to mention our own.
I should iterate
That I realize the Ricketts probably won’t reinvest 100% of the revenue into the team permanently. But if they do that for the next few years or maybe the next decade, that will build a real nice budget surplus eventually.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 22, 2010 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
my problem with THIS sign
is that it changes the line of the stadium. It will look markedly different than what it looked like before. That’s what I think should be avoided. I’d much prefer the Cubs come to an agreement with the roof-owner than change the line of the stadium. Putting an ad on a previously-existing flat space is not the same as this.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
(I'm running out of steam)
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 22, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
You and Me Both...
Those that think the Cubs and Wrigley are two separate entities and are okay with changing Wrigley are entitled to their opinion. I just don’t agree with that. Wrigley has always been the home of the Chicago Cubs since any of us have been watching baseball. (It was also home to the Bears at one point but that’s not important for this discussion).
I can’t believe that I’m reading from people that would suggest tearing down Wrigley. Again, WRIGLEY IS NOT THE PROBLEM. A LACK OF ADVERTISING IS NOT THE PROBLEM. IT IS ALSO NOT THE SOLUTION. Could we benefit from more revenue? Absolutely…but it doesn’t guarantee anything nor does it even guarantee that we’ll do any better than we have been doing. I’m sure that the Ricketts family could find other sources of advertising or revenue producers than putting up advertisements. They just need to think outside of the box.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
It's a ballpark, not a museum
And I shall say this again…the minority that bitches the most about proposed modernization and changes at Wrigley are typically those who go to games at the ballpark the least (if at all).
The Toyota sign is just fine. When I’m sitting down the 3rd base line it’s presence won’t do a damned thing to “ruin” the Wrigley experience I’ve been having since 1977. Nor will an appropriately scaled Jumbotron or ribbon signs or a change in the name of the damned ballpark.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I have 30 seconds to waste so what the heck...
Tell me, BLou, do you have any empirical data to back up your claim that the Wrigley-huggers are the ones that go to Wrigley the least (if at all)?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Hey now.
I would not consider myself a Wrigley-hugger, and I barely make it to the ballpark. This coming July will only be my fourth, fifth, and sixth games at Wrigley ever.
My feeling is that if indeed change comes in the form of a sign or something else along those lines, the people who go there the most will probably be the ones you hear the most complaints from, because they are the ones to whom Wrigley Field means more.
Now they don’t have to plaster Wrigley Field with advertising or turn it into the inside of a Superstore like Meijer. Just one sign above the outfield bleachers is fine. After all, hasn’t that casino across the street been advertising (indirectly) at Wrigley Field all this time?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Pound syrup
;-)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably not too far away from what he will say.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Please don't
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
the casino sign
is not physically part of Wrigley.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 23, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand that.
Hence, “the casino across the street.”
Did you catch that part?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 23, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
of course I did
but when you say “why complain about the toyota ad, after all the horseshoe building has been across the street forever”, my response is, "yes, but the horseshoe building is not PART OF WRIGLEY.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 25, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not against signs, I'm against THIS sign
I get that we’re headed towards “Fenway West” in Wrigleyville. Is what it is. I’m ok with it, generally.
But for all the signage added to Fenway Park, none is as hideous and obtrusive as this one. It’s just so out of place.
The Cubs seem to make changes really quickly and without much design input, and things always seem to end up sort of minor league compared to other organizations. Like building the new backstop and premium seats just days before the start of a season, and using brand new bricks instead of the same ones (or other reclaimed bricks) so that the aesthetic is ruined and it looks like any other park. (Heck, we used old bricks for our new patio — this is not a revolutionary idea). Like that awful restaurant — could it look for ramshackle?
To be fair, the new bleachers were nearly perfect. But I just don’t have that much faith in the Cubs’ design choices.
Very interesting link:
Illustrates some of the current business statistics for the Cubs. It’s about a year old so I consider it relatively current.
Revenue4 $239 mil
Operating Inc.5 $29.7 mil
Player Expenses6 $140 mil
Gate Receipts7 $128 mil
by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 22, 2010 10:45 PM CDT reply actions
A little bit of analysis
Consider that they only make $128 million per season in gate receipts. This means that they rely heavily on alternate revenue streams to support their expenses of approximately $170 million per year. That revenue comes from clothing, brand management, advertising, and soon income from property at the spring training facility and Triangle building.
If these numbers continue, they have about $70 million surplus per year. According to the Ricketts, they’re going to reinvest all of that into the team for a few years. That’s awfully nice but it can be better.
This was an amazing long term investment for the Ricketts. I honestly believe that they have the ability to both put a competitive team on the field every year AND make their money back within 20-30 years depending on the interest on the (approximately) 50% of financing that they secured.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Mar 22, 2010 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Remember that the Ricketts have $30 million a year in debt service.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Quite right...
…and not a small detail that most folks forget.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Dear Tom...
There’s alot of opinions on this thread! The only one that tilted mine was Endrick’s. I think all Cubs fans should have equal ease of access, use of facilities and the same comfort level. I would look at 10 ugly red signs for that. Also, the comment about doing what’s best for your family…yes, the only thing that comes before Cubs/baseball is family and friends. One day after we win the World Series I hope I have the opportunity to shake your hand and say “thanks, job well done” then give you a big fat hug and a kiss.
Sincerely Yours, cooliogirl
btw; thanks to my fellow bloggers for keeping this thread “nice”
Nady's beard looks fine to me!
Ha!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I always thougt Nice was in Canada across from Soda Bay, near Clear Water
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Thanks...
Slips you that $20
I owe you a beer
LOL
"Why people who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
lol....you never know who's lurking ;)
"Nady and his weak beard steps in"--Cubbie-Tim on Mar 12, 2010 9:53 PM CST reply actions
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 24, 2010 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Put up as many temporary signs as you need to service debt and be competitive...
..but keep in mind that the most distinctive and “precious” aspects of Wrigley are the outfield vista, the marquee, and the sacred turf where “even the Babe” played. Everything else can and should be torn down and rebuilt with modern amenities for fans and players alike.
Before you put up that Triangle Building, consider replacing the entire grandstand and getting the city to condemn properties on Addison and re-route the street 50 feet to the south, so that the new grandstand can be built not only with 5-10K additional seats, no posts, wide ailes and amenities, but also on a new axis that provides decent room for bullpens, foul territory, and a playing field that turns those 350 foot home runs in the power alleys into easy outs.
So where do you play while all the changes are made? Hey, the Dodgers won a World Series in the LA Coliseum in ’59, with an average game attendance of more than 90K. A couple of productive years for the Cubs at Soldier Field and you could be back at the new Wrigley with championship hardware and enough cash to take down those temporary signs and restore the beauty of that view toward the lake.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Very good points
They’ve already gone on record saying that they won’t play elsewhere, but I’d be in favor of it for a year or two if it meant a modern Wrigley Field viable for another 90 years.
Oh, the turf . . . that’s gone. During the resodding project a couple of years ago.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 23, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
i been waiting for SWL or someone else
to reply like this is a Dear Abby
Dear Cooliogirl……………….
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
why dont you just do it?
"Nady and his weak beard steps in"--Cubbie-Tim on Mar 12, 2010 9:53 PM CST reply actions
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 25, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
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