Cubs Go Nowhere In 1-1 Tie With Reds

Photo by Al Yellon
GOODYEAR, Arizona -- See the planes in the photo above? They're parked in what's known as the Goodyear Airport Boneyard, one of several places in the deserts of the Southwest where airlines store their unused airplanes. The dry desert climate helps them last longer.
Up until a few years ago, the boneyard at Goodyear was far from civilization. Now, it sits just behind the right-field wall at Goodyear Ballpark, spring home of the Reds and Indians, where I took the photo before this afternoon's 1-1 Cubs tie with the Reds, the first tie game of the spring. With rule changes creating suspended games in most situations during the regular season when you could have in the past wound up with a tie, the only time you can see a tie game is in spring training. Generally, it's agreed between the two managers when to call it a day; normally, it's when they run out of pitchers, although the Reds had someone warming up in the 10th, and Mike Parisi was standing rather forlornly by himself in the Cubs bullpen as the Reds batted in the bottom of that inning -- against Alex Maestri, who wasn't even a non-roster invitee to spring camp this year.
Such was this afternoon's languidly played game, which featured a Laynce Nix home run off Carlos Silva in the second inning -- after which Carlos said he had a strained quad and departed after having thrown well in the first inning, not so much in the second. Silva went and threw quite a number of pitches in the bullpen, then had a long discussion with Lester Strode before trudging across the field between innings toward the dugout with a member of the training staff.
The Cubs tied the game in the fourth when Tyler Colvin smacked a double to deep center and scored two outs later on a single by Micah Hoffpaiur. The Hoff had one of his better games of the spring, going 3-for-4; but his spring average is still only .235 and I suspect he's a longshot for making the team. Most of the "regulars" (only Mike Fontenot and Hoffpauir really qualified among today's starters) left the game in the late innings. Impressive in the field was Hak-Ju Lee, who took over for Fontenot at SS -- Lee has terrific range, but obviously needs quite a bit more minor league time as he has played only one professional season and won't turn 20 until November. Fontenot, for his part, played a competent SS and may have solidified his role as backup to both 2B and SS today.
Following the fourth inning, the teams combined for four doubles and a single and despite each team having RISP in the late innings, no one really came close to scoring, and the 7,252 in attendance (the Reds' second-largest home crowd of the year, about 60/40 Cubs fans) were sent home without witnessing a decision.
After the jump, my impressions of Goodyear Ballpark.
Goodyear Ballpark is a nice little park, reminiscent in some ways of the Brewers' park in Maryvale -- about 7,000 or so permanent seats and a berm area. The berm is one of the problems -- there's not very much room there and much of it has views obstructed by a fence above the wall and bullpens (the outfield walls are also pretty high, about 18-20 feet all the way around). As I noted above, there were 7,252 in attendance; there were a couple thousand empty seats down the foul lines, but the berms were pretty full. I had a berm ticket, but discovered some picnic tables near the LF foul pole, where I sat for the entire game with a reasonably clear view of the infield and about 90% of the outfield (partly obscured by a railing, and also by people who stood in front, but moved when asked politely). That's where I ran into BCB reader tharr, who I had given my cell number. He called and I told him where I was -- he said that's where he was. Turned out he was standing right behind me, which gave gales of laughter to his two friends. Nice to meet you!
The team store is about the best-equipped of any souvenir store in the Cactus League, and has plenty of merchandise for both the Indians and Reds. Note again to Cubs management: I don't know who's setting prices at HoHoKam Park, whether it's the Cubs or the HoHoKams, but souvenir prices there are essentially a giant ripoff. There's one particular spring cap that's on sale in Mesa for $31. The identical cap with an Indians logo at Goodyear is $22. That's just plain bad business, in my opinion, especially in a recession.
Food choices were pretty good, though a bit higher-priced than some other parks. I had been told that you could get Skyline chili, a Cincinnati favorite, there -- after searching around and settling for Philly cheesesteak, I finally found the one place they were selling the chili -- as a topping for a $4 hot dog at a portable stand. Looked OK, but not really a great presentation for a supposed signature food item. It didn't stop people from holding up their hot dog and chili while others were taking their photo. Strange, but to each his or her own, I guess.
Traffic and parking are easy -- there are three separate entrances and exits and traffic flow was good going both in and out, although that's partly due to the smaller size of the crowd and the fact that they had "Kids Run The Bases" after the game, which kept some families with small kids there. I'd definitely go back to this park, and recommend a visit there. From Scottsdale it took 45 minutes; it would probably take about the same time from the center of Mesa, presuming no traffic. Consider this: that's about a 40-45 mile jaunt, which will be about the longest in the Cactus League once the Diamondbacks and Rockies move to their new complex next year.
That would be equivalent to the closest spring park to Naples, Florida -- and that's only two teams, the Red Sox and Twins. All the rest of the Florida teams are at least a three-hour ride from Naples. That's one of the main reasons to stay in Mesa, among others. Back to Mesa tomorrow; Jeff Samardzija will start for the Cubs against Cleveland's Fausto Carmona.
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I just hope when I meet with you, Al,
That it isn’t quite as “oh my goodness, you’re right there!” as your meeting with tharr was. Can’t wait to see his version of events.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 21, 2010 7:51 PM CDT reply actions
One ball park I didn't get to
but I’m sure I will. Any more picts Al? Good to hear it’s better to get in and out of than Camelback. I hope the Cubs take some lessons on berm building as this is a very popular spot for families and many fans. Plus, it doesn’t cost must to grow some grass to sit on, just have a lot of it at a slope that makes seeing the action easy for all.
Spending a week in AZ is not like it used to be…. I used to be able to see most of the teams and now not even half. Good problem to have. I listened to the game back in Iowa wishing I was still in the sunshine in Mesa.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
I posted a couple of pics on Twitter today....
… via Twitpic. There are a lot of issues with many berms in the Cactus League. IMO, the best one is at Maryvale, where there’s a good steep angle so you can see and lots of room with no obstructions.
I too remember the days when, in the 8-team Cactus League, you’d see everyone 4 or 5 times. Now it’s twice, three times at most. More variety, I guess, is a good thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Aviation-related:
Click here to see some photos of planes parked at GYR along with their stories. Possibly only interesting to me, but I thought I’d share.
It is interesting.
I also put another link in the post itself to a similar site.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Very interesting!
That jet with the Scirocco logo on its side has one of the most interesting color schemes I have ever seen.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 21, 2010 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You know that's not true...
Possibly only interesting to me
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 21, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Al and I have proven that others are interested in that.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 21, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
PAt & Ron talked about it "forever" during the game
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Most definitely
But I was bound to be interested, and so is hip2bsquare if he sees it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Very cool, thanks for posting
…hard to imagine that United has a 747-4 that is only 12 years old parked there.
Why was Pat Hughes
ragging on Hak-Ju Lee’s name? Not cool. I enjoy listening to PH and all, but we plan to be sending numerous Koreans through the ranks. It’s his name, not like he selected it.
Nice to hear him play some good defense. I look forward to seeing him in Beloit next month.
I didn't think
he was in any way “ragging” on Lee. It sounded like he was ragging on Ron, really, because Ron has trouble pronouncing many unusual names.
IIRC, Pat basically just said “here’s an unusual name” (not a direct quote), spelled it out, and said his name.. Then Ron said “I’ll just call him Lee”.
And he also asked Ron if he considered the Pak Ju for his sons.
It didn’t strike me as being all too bad.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Typing fail: And he also asked Ron if he considered the Pak Ju name for his sons.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
And, no, he wasn't ragging on Lee
or his game, or his abilities, just his name.
I'm going on memory
after taking no notes and having a ‘stressful-ish’ night, but here goes.
‘The next batter has a (not remembering the word he used, but it wasn’t bad) name. His last name is Lee. His first name is spelled H-A-K J-U.’ (Not bad up to there) Then, he started egging Ronnie on about would he name his kids Hak-Ju.
He kept going on a bit longer than necessary. I’m somewhat sensitive about foreign sounding names, as my last name is ‘sehr Deutsch’ (very German).
If I would listen again, on the face of it, I would be proven hyper-sensitive. But I’ll stick to my stance. Here’s why. If Pat Hughes has fun with (and he did) Kevin Slowey’s name, will potential Cubs first round pick Austin Wilson say “I don’t want to sign with that team. Their announcer is a hack.” Probably not.
But if Pat funs with HJ Lee, Dae-Eun Rhee, and a few more Koreans, could that sideswipe Steve Wilson’s admirable efforts? Not sure. I don’t know how Koreans take to being razzed. (If HJ Lee’s buddy Logan Watkins would quote Pat Hughes verbatim, Lee would probably find it hilarious. But Lee isn’t who I’m worried about. I want us to have as good or better shot at any International Prospects as possible.) I’m probably being too critical, but I hope that our entire organization is respectful of all players, regardless of nationality.
Normally I’m not like this, I simply consider the Korean market very important to our success. Off soapbax.
The cramp in Silva's leg maybe what rattled him in the 2nd.
He pitched great in the first.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Yep.
Eight pitches in the first inning. 26 in the second.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I just hope it's not lasting.
Does he have any more spring training starts that you know of?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 21, 2010 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I assume...
… he’ll pitch next Friday, which would be his regular turn.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Terry, glad you finally got to meet Al
I recall how we failed to connect with him in Arizona that fateful year.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
After about 8 years
of reading and writing on Al’s blog, I began to have suspicions that there was no Al Yellon. Perhaps he had merely been photoshopped by Bartman to deceive us all these years. You know, he could have been anybody. I didn’t ask him for a valid ID. How can I be 4 feet from him and not hear his phone ring?
It all seems a little too suspicious.
Was wondering when you'd chime in.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions
"Photoshopped by Bartman"
… now that would be a horrible fate.
Nice to meet you, at last.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Good band name though.
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
My pleasure Al
The girls are still laughing their asses off about being 4 feet away and calling you. See you later today at HoHo. This time I’d rather not kiss my sister.
Loved Goodyear!
Nice park, friendly ushers, good food prices… I couldn’t wait to get out of the car an enjoy today’s game. Even low it was a low scoring affair, it was cool to see Colvin, Aducci, and Lee. Hope tomorrow’s game brings some of the big boys out to play! Hope to see/meet ya Al… We’re in Section 116!
by socalicubsfan on Mar 21, 2010 10:51 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I assume the regulars will play tomorrow...
… given that it’s a home game and they all got today off.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Hopefully Ramirez will start tomorrow.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Al, if you're going to keeep ripping on the FL travel time issue, can you at least be more accurate?
That would be equivalent to the closest spring park to Naples, Florida — and that’s only two teams, the Red Sox and Twins. All the rest of the Florida teams are at least a three-hour ride from Naples.
That last part is just not true. Now, I don’t know exactly where in (or around) Naples they were looking at a complex so my times might be off a bit, but just using Naples as a starting point in Google Maps, here are travel times to cities where some other camps are located:
Ft Myers (Red Sox, Twins) – Google says 39 but I’ll give you the 45 minutes
Port Charlotte (Rays) – 1:12
Sarasota (Orioles) – 2:01
Bradenton (Pirates) – 2:14
- – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
Tampa (Yankees) – 2:44
Jupiter (Cardinals, Marlins) – 2:49
Lakeland (Tigers) – 2:53
Clearwater (Phillies) – 2:55
Dunedin (Blue Jays) – 2:57
That’s 11 other teams within 3 hours of travel time, though common sense and fair play tells me that everything below the dotted line isn’t really helping my argument. Still, that leaves 5 other teams clocking in well under the 3 hour mark. You can certainly have a (grape)fruitful schedule with 5 other teams, and perhaps 1-2 longer trips.
No doubt Arizona has the advantage when it comes to travel times. But Florida isn’t as bad as you continue to make it sound. Keep it up and I may have change my username to fljazzman… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And I'll be vtjazzman... ;-)
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 22, 2010 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Can I be UmPahPahMan?
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
Fat sweaty bulldog, stood in the sun
Me and Harpua, we couldn’t care few-a
It happens all the time, we beat Okimo
Three hours is a lot longer than 45-50 minutes, wouldn't you say?
So is two hours (Sarasota and Bradenton).
I’ll give you Port Charlotte, although that’s still longer.
The Florida travel times are much longer. Your own post proves the point.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would and I did
But after mentioning the Twins and the Red Sox, you said
“All the rest of the Florida teams are at least a three-hour ride from Naples.”
And that’s just flat out wrong. My point is you have strong case on this issue just citing the facts – you don’t have to distort them too.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
OK, so a couple of them are two hours...
… and the others are listed as nearly three hours.
In any case, the point stands. Travel would be far more difficult from Naples to virtually any other place in the Grapefruit League, than it is to ANY point in the Cactus League from Mesa (or anywhere else in the Phoenix area).
Satisfied now?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Travel Times
I think anything over 2 hours one way is a real pain. In college baseball, I know the University of Memphis doesn’t mind the annual midweek road trips to Arkansas State (Jonesboro) and Ole Miss (Oxford) because they are only about 80-90 minutes away. Going all the way to Murray State (Kentucky) or Mississippi State (Starkville) is more burdensome with those trips being about 2 hours, 50 minutes one way.
With so many ST places in Arizona 50 minutes or less away from Mesa, there’s no reason for the Cubs to leave Mesa.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
To make a proper evaluation
wouldn’t you actually have to double the travel time. ie. a 3 hour trip becomes 6 hours because you have to go there and then return. Essentially it becomes a 9 hour experience when you add in the game time. For myself, that’s an unreasonably time committment for a spring training game.
Aha... now see, you're looking at this from the fan's perspective, not the team's.
And there’s nothing wrong with that because, well, obviously you’re a fan, so that kind of time commitment matters to you when you’re planning out your days during a ST vacation trip.
But while the time committment is theoretically the same to the team, I think it’s an important distinction to make because a different set of circumstances come into play when you’re talking about travel time issues for a team vs for the fans. Not necessarily better (or worse) – just different. And I’m pretty sure that when making a decision of this magnitude, while fan considerations are important, team considerations have to take precedent.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think the point applies to fans and teams alike
After all, Spring Training is leaving Tucson because the teams don’t want to make the two hour drive back and forth to Phoenix.
"Now we can just call you Kishi Laptop, Esquire."
I'm pretty sure brand spanking new facilities
heavily subsidized by taxpayers and other non-team revenue sources had something to do with it as well.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's even worse for the team, because...
… they have to sit on a bus for up to three hours, then play baseball at (presumably) a high level, then take a three-hour bus ride back.
That likely means a 7:30 or 8 am departure, and a return at 7:30 or 8 pm. Who wants to do that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Every extra minute in a bus is time lost for training & practice.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
by eths on Mar 22, 2010 12:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think that is the real issue
When you can play 2/3rds of your games within 30 minutes of your home base (for the Cubs, next year that would include Angels, Giants, A’s, D’Backs and Rockies), you can get in morning workouts before you leave for the game that day. If you have a two hour or more drive to the game, you really can’t. Over the course of a month, that adds up to a lot of extra workouts.
Tougher Travel Than in the Minor Leagues
The Memphis Redbirds will take a 3-hour bus ride to Nashville to play the Sounds, but the Redbirds are going to stay there for a 4-game series. They are not going to get on a bus and come right back to Memphis after playing just one game.
BTW, the worst travel there is for any professional sport is minor league hockey. In the Central Hockey League, the Mississippi Riverkings once had a weekend playing on Friday in Bossier City, LA, Saturday in Southaven, MS, and Sunday in Wichita. That was all bus travel. Ouch!!!
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
Oh I dunno... rookies, prospects and players trying to earn a spot on the team?
And as I posted below, not all the players make the trips in Florida. For those who don’t go, they stay behind and have plenty of workout time in camp – batting practice, fielding drills, strength & conditioning workouts.
Then they clean up and go play golf…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Since the time committed
by the players is even greater that that for the fans, it seems appropriate to discuss. If the team has a 1:00 PM game, they would have to arrive at least an hour and a half before 1:00 PM. Add to that the reality that the bus would probably require more time on the road than a car. Add to that an allowance for heavy traffic.
Basically the players would require at least 10 hours of travel for a ball game in which many players wouldn’t even play. To me that’s a ton of wasted time. In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense other than Florida teams currently have leases which they must play out. In the end, I’d expect almost all teams will transfer to Arizona. At least that’s my conclusion.
by tharr on Mar 22, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
For East Coast based teams...
… Florida does make sense, as it’s far closer to their fanbase. I might expect that they’d wind up in two “clusters”, or maybe eventually have all the FL teams in the Tampa/Sarasota region.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Of course
the cluster effect which Arizona experiences would change the model analysis. However, at the present time, it would require a considerable number of years to bring that to fruition. It could happen but it seems unlikely. The Eastern bloc would seem to include only 10 teams. Currently only 4 teams already have stadiums proximate to Tampa Bay. Advantage- Arizona.
Well, not all the players go on the road trips in Florida. It’s pretty well planned out ahead of time who’s going to play for both pitchers and position players. And the veterans usually find a way to get out of the longer trips, with management’s blessing. It’s almost a rite of passage in the spring to stick the rookies and prospects with the long road trips. And I’d suspect that any rookie or prospect would not mind a long bus ride in the least if it meant playing and increasing their chances of staying with the club.
Alsol, have you seen some of these buses? They’re pretty sweet rides. Plenty of leg room, all sorts of food & beverage options available (all nutritional of course), and players have plenty of personal entertainment media options, not to mention time for lots of team chemistry building.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That's all true
but all of it is just an attempt to mitigate something that basically sucks…a long bus ride. On the one hand, you say that the veterans try to get out of the longer trips (which is true) and then you talk about it being a sweet ride with entertainment options. Well, the former speaks louder than the latter.
And you also say that they try to stick the rookies and prospects with the longer trips, yet earlier you say they can leave the rookies and prospects back in camp to work out. Well, it can’t be both…SOMEBODY has to go play the games. And those that do miss out on a lot of workout time due to the long bus rides.
Did you happen to read Koyie Hill’s comments about Spring Training in Florida vs Arizona, since he has experienced both? He said it all…Arizona is WAY better.
I think you misread something somewhere
Nowhere did I say they leave the rookies and prospects back in camp to work out.
Al ended his post with
That likely means a 7:30 or 8 am departure, and a return at 7:30 or 8 pm. Who wants to do that?
and I started my response with
Oh I dunno… rookies, prospects and players trying to earn a spot on the team?
and then went on to say
And as I posted below, not all the players make the trips in Florida. For those who don’t go, they stay behind and have plenty of workout time in camp – batting practice, fielding drills, strength & conditioning workouts. Then they clean up and go play golf…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
well, one could argue
that the rookies and the prospects are the players who would most benefit from the extra workout time, especially the one on one instruction.
But, Koyie Hill says it best:
Chicago catcher Koyie Hill is unusual in that he started his career with the Dodgers, spent time with the Diamondbacks and now is with the Cubs. So he has experienced spring training in Florida, with a Tucson-based Cactus League team and, now, with the Cubs in the Valley.
“Some guys will tell you they don’t care one way or the other,” Hill said of a potential move to Florida. "Those are the guys who have never taken those bus rides in Florida.
“It’s 2 1/2 hours on average. Two hours on the bus is a good day. And then you start thinking about split-squad games and the minor league guys. They send the minor league guys all over the place.”
Also, Hill noted, there’s the sticky heat and potential for daily rain in Florida.
“I know I’d rather stay here,” he said.
And for a player, I would imagine that yes indeed, Arizona is way better.
Look, this whole sub-thread started because Al said all the other camps besides Red Sox and Twins would be at least a 3 hour bus ride trip away from Naples. That simply isn’t true and I produced the travel times to prove it.
You of all people, ought to appreciate someone clearing up the misconceptions about spring training. I find it hilarious that when something is proven to make Florida not look as bad as it had been previously described, you fall back on subjective arguments.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No, Ballhawk
Look I have never been to Florida for Spring Training.
But, it slays me how many people on here nit pick minor details (not you, specifically, but many) while ignoring the main point.
Whether a particular bus ride in Florida is 2 hours vs 2 1/2 hours or 1 1/2 hours vs 2 hours doesn’t mean jack when you get right down to it.
I do know how players bitch and try to get out of a 1 1/2 hour bus ride to Tucson, and that is all at 70 MPH on a interstate highway. I also know that many of the trips in Florida involve significant stretches that are not 70 MPH interstates and that the actual travel times can vary significantly depending on traffic, weather, etc.
The D’Backs and Rockies are moving their ST from Tucson to Scottsdale, because they feel that without at least three teams in Tucson to play each other, it just doesn’t work for them to have to make the 1 1/2 to 2 hour trip for a lot of their games.
In other words, they are moving because they are not happy with a travel scenario that is nowhere near as demanding as what it would be if they trained in Naples.
Even I can see, never having to been to Florida for Spring Training, why this would be a major issue for a team, and that is not subjective, that is objective.
Whether a particular trip is 2 hours or 2 1/2 hours is neither subjective nor objective, it is trivia.
Well then, let's look at the main point - and the main point ain't travel time.
Travel time is only an issue when you’re comparing travel times. And I’m pretty sure I’ve agreed from the beginning that travel times are shorter in Arizona so you can’t accuse me of moving the goalposts here. All I’ve tried to point out is that the road trips in Florida aren’t these big bad nightmare odysseys that others continue to portray them as.
But if you want to talk about what means jack, then let me put this to you:
Do you think Cleveland, Cincinnati, LA, Texas, and Kansas City would have left Florida if the teams had to pay for their new facilities in Arizona out of their own pockets? Shorter travel times were just the icing on the cake in each of those migrations. Without the cake of heavily-subsidized infrastructure, the icing of shorter road trips wouldn’t matter.
I don’t purport to know enough about the Tucson situation to speak intelligently there so I’ll leave it to you to tell me if the White Sox, DBacks and Rockies would have made their move to Phoenix area if somebody else’s funds weren’t available to build nice new facilities for them.
Here’s another more pertinent scenario: Let’s just say the proposed legislation in Arizona collapses, the people of Mesa reject whatever gets put on the ballot and all other attempts at identifying public (or at least non-Cub) monies fail. Obviously not very likely but it’s possible.
Furthermore, let’s say the state of Florida puts together their version of ASTA (sp?) and pass the legislation needed to fund such an entity. And the local citizens approve whatever ballot measure is needed to provide enough public funding to ensure the Cubs get whatever they’re asking for. Again, not very likely given Florida’s actions (or lack thereof) to date, but it’s possible.
Do you think the Ricketts will stay in Arizona, either making do at HoHoKam or continue with their plans for East Mesa, except they’ll just pay for everything themselves? I don’t. The shortest bus rides in the world don’t make up for “free”.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I can only relate
what the D’Backs and Rockies officials have said publicly, and it was all about travel. The D’Backs in particular have made a big point of the fact that their first preference was to stay in Tucson, but it just didn’t work with only two teams.
As far as the other scenario is concerned, as I have already stated, as I have followed this progress of this fairly closely, I have changed my mind and I don’t think the Cubs had any intention of moving to FL under any circumstances.
Well
as I said below, the Cubs can play 2/3rds of their games with a 30 minute of less travel time. In Florida, nearly half of their games would require them to leave early enough in the day that it would impact their ability to get in full morning workouts on game days. I think that is what matters. All those hours on buses going to and from games could be used doing weight training, agility drills, and other things that get you ready for the regular season.
GET OVER IT ALREADY
SERIOUSLY! You have like what, one post on your own team’s site in the past week? Your profile tells that very tale.
Are they that boring that you feel the need to post here about Spring Training numbers every day? When Spring Traing goes away, do you do the same?
Nothing personal, however, you’re obsessed.
"...but you the living, you're stuck here with the Cubs. So it is ME who feels sorry for you." - Steve Goodman, "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
Maestri
I was wondering whatever happened to Maestri. It kind of look like he fell of the earth, he was putting up decent numbers a year ago. Did he sustain some kind of injury?
Not that I know of
Most pitchers in the minors don’t get NRI status. It costs enough per diem to limit NRI’s to a select few. Jay Jackson, and Chris(topher) Carpenter didn’t even get invited. Maestri is in the mix with Brian Schlitter, Jeremy Pappelbon, and many others who have decent credentials, but didn’t rate an early Spring start.
I’m glad to see he got to play with the ‘big kids’ on Sunday.
Ahh Fausto Carmona...
The second greatest magician name in all of baseball… second only to TONY (the amazing) RANDAZZO!
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
I picked the right game to skip in AZ
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 22, 2010 11:47 AM CDT reply actions
Like I said I picked the right game to skip
Maybe Lou will play him today.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 22, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Mar 22, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

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