Mesa Rallies To Keep Cubs, Then Cubs Rally Past Reds 8-1
by Al Yellon on Mar 29, 2010 7:00 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
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PrintMESA, Arizona -- Before this afternoon's 8-1 Cubs win over the Reds, a game that featured three Cub dingers, about 200 Cubs fans and various members of the media attended a "Keep The Cubs In Mesa" rally that was held outside the southwest gate at HoHoKam Park.
It was a love-fest, and rightfully so. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer spoke (before throwing out one of what seemed like 50 ceremonial first pitches -- I think it was five of them, really), as did Mesa Mayor Scott Smith, the mayor of Gilbert, Arizona (John Lewis), and Cubs owner Tom Ricketts.
More on this rally and the next steps in getting the Cubs a new spring complex built after the jump, but first, a few words about today's win.
Randy Wells looked sharp, very much as he did most of last season. He was removed with two out in the sixth, and had he not allowed the leadoff man to reach in that inning, he'd probably have finished the inning. Wells scattered seven hits, struck out five, and the only Reds run scored on a groundout. Wells will make one more start before the regular season begins, Saturday vs. the Diamondbacks at Chase Field.
The Reds started what is likely their Opening Day lineup today -- and though it looks impressive, as the saying goes, "on paper", the rest of that saying is -- "but they don't play the games on paper". I just don't see how this team is going to be a contending force. Dusty Baker decided to make this "bullpen day", starting Carlos Fisher, a relief pitcher. Fisher was supposed to go two innings, but failed; Dusty yanked him with two out in the second after he'd given up five hits and three runs, including a mammoth home run to Marlon Byrd.
When the Reds got to the end of their bullpen, Kip Wells (amazing that he's still around -- the Reds are his eighth team) and Matt Maloney, Cubs hitters teed off in the sunlight that was fading behind high clouds. Wells hit a batter, gave up two singles and a walk and was charged with two runs; Maloney gave up homers to Mike Fontenot (note: that's a HR for LBR off a LHP) and Jeff Baker, putting the game out of reach.
Tom Ricketts speaks to fans and media today. Mesa Mayor Scott Smith is to Ricketts' left. Photo by Al Yellon
Before I write anything about today's "Keep The Cubs" rally, I am going to ask every one of you for civility in discussing this issue. Discussion of this topic has occasionally become contentious; I thank people for keeping politics out (for the most part; this is a political issue, so I know that's hard), but unfortunately personal attacks have also been part of the discussion. I'm not singling anyone out. All I ask is that everyone keep it civil. Thanks.
It's clear to me after listening to Gov. Brewer, Mayor Smith, Mayor Lewis and Tom Ricketts, that a deal will be struck to finance a new Cubs spring training complex -- and that all the Cactus League teams will get a piece of the pie. The speakers today made it clear that this is a Cactus League-wide issue, not just a Cubs issue. I imagine some sort of deal will be struck that will be acceptable to all involved, and only then will a revised bill (or new one -- the existing one may be, for all intents and purposes, dead) be introduced in the Arizona Legislature.
Everyone appeared to be on the same page, and regardless of what you think politically of any of the politicians involved today, every one of them expressed support for the Cubs. In addition to the two mayors who spoke, several other Valley mayors attended the rally to show their support.
This is good news for those of us who know that Arizona -- and Mesa, where the Cubs trained from 1952-65 and again from 1979 through today -- is the right place for the Cubs to remain for spring training, and to build a complex that will be a year-round base for things like extended spring training, summer leagues, fall leagues, rehab, etc.
Around the seventh inning today, Tom Ricketts came out to the LF berm to say hello and he patiently signed autographs and took pictures with several dozen fans, all of whom seemed to be genuinely surprised and happy that the owner of the team was taking time out to talk to them. For Ricketts' part, he seemed just as happy to share. He's a genuinely good guy, and I think we will all be very happy with the direction of the team in the future.
Finally -- and back to the ending of this year's Cactus League schedule -- Tom Gorzelanny will make his final spring start against the Giants tomorrow at Scottsdale; he will be opposed by our old buddy Todd Wellemeyer, who is on target to be the Giants' #5 starter.
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Let's hope they start the regular season 15-9 like they started the Spring...
…or better
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
There's a pretty good chance of that....
… playing the Nationals, Diamondbacks and Pirates within the first 30 games. The Astros may not be that great this year, either.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
16-8 would be a great April
Very do-able with the schedule. The Cubs always play pretty well in Cincinnati and Milwaukee. And they can at least split the four game series against the Mets, right?
Get 'em on, Get 'em over, Get 'em in!
Let's hope so.
But the Cubs never seemed to play well at Shea Stadium (see the 2004 Cubs) and lost 2 of 3 there last September, but ya never know.
Outside of that series, there’s no reason that the Cubs can’t win all the other series in April (wishful thinking, maybe, but I think it’s possible).
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Shea is gone.
Cubs lost 2 of 3 at Citi Field last year.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yes, I know I know that was a mistype on my part...
The “there” was referring to Citi Field in the post above. My mistake.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Write me down for an 16-8 April. That would be a great start.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
The Disastros
are gonna stink. I’m picking the Pirates to get out of the basement this year.
I actually kind of like the D-Backs, but ni that division, I can’t see them finishing better than third and probably fourth. The Rockies are my pick to win the West and I see the Dodgers getting the WC.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
by Josh Timmers on Mar 29, 2010 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You stole this prognostication
from Lindy’s Baseball Annual, which I happened to be reading at the moment
I've been thinking along some of the same lines...
… about the NL Central. I will post my picks on Sunday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Well, Lindy's has 'em
just the way Josh77 posted, both in Central and West, with Dodgers getting the WC.
Of course, they also have the Cubs finishing behind the Cards with the Brew Crew third. I assume that is where you will depart with Lindy’s.
Maybe I'm writing
for Lindy’s under a pseudonym. Did you ever think of that?
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
by Josh Timmers on Mar 29, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Naaawww, if you wanted to be anonymous,
you wouldn’t be dropping large hints here. But on the other hand, if you think we think this way, then you would. However if you know this and we know….
By the way, it’s going to be the Cubs in the Central, followed by the Cards and Brews.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze
by eths on Mar 30, 2010 1:09 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Season Projections
Have the BCB season projections been posted? For all the bemoaning of pitching spots and guys deserving to be in the rotation I’m just happy that there is a choice! Much better than looking to Chad Guadin or some other option as a 5th at this point in ST.
You mean the player projections?
I posted the starting 8 a couple weeks ago. I have the starting rotation numbers, will post them soon.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
This is where the Cubs need to be
Glad this is done. The other teams need to pipe down, they would do the same deal if offered in a minute.
Cubs starters have done a nice job this spring. I just hope this continues. If Lilly comes back in Lilly form, the rotation could be a solid one.
This team will be good as it bullpen will allow.
Not saying I was disagreeing with you...
just adding on the Soriano and Geo part
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I think it's great Tom Ricketts is such a down to earth guy.
That’s a rare thing to find in sports — an owner who actually cares about the fans enough to spend time in the stands with them and talk about the team, even if it is only at a meaningless spring training game. I think it’s very cool. Go Tom Ricketts.
Glad to see Fonty take one out on a left-hander. Maybe that’ll boost his confidence against facing LHP. Go out and smash Wellemeyer tomorrow guys!
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
The only thing I worry about...
Is that he’s too much of a fan to pull the trigger on some of the tough issues as the season progresses… like if he was offered a trade that would help the team win but had to give up a fan favorite and spend more money… hopefully he just puts on the happy face and let’s Hendry do the dirty work. Or fires the people responsible for not producing results.
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
I think that's exactly the case.
Ricketts isn’t making deals himself. He’s letting his baseball people do that. I believe him when he said that if people don’t produce they’ll be held accountable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If he's anything like his father
Then the axe will fall exactly where and when it needs too. That’s one thing that TD Ameritrade was always quite good at, executive management and accountability. Hopefully dad instilled those values in his kids.
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
According to what I've read...
… that’s exactly how Tom Ricketts has run Incapital, his own investment business.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I find it interesting
that according to this source that BCB has used before (http://tinyurl.com/y9vlw72), negotiations for funding a new Cubs Spring Training facility have badly stalled, and a renovation of Hohokam Park (and I assume Fitch) is back on the table.
As I have mentioned previously, for the near term, this may be the solution that makes the most sense.
The ticket surcharge idea is surely dead. Officials from Peoria and Maryvale have weighed in with the fact that the teams that train in those cities have clauses in their contracts that would allow them to leave if a ticket surcharge is forced upon them.
Leave? To go where?
That would be Seattle and Milwaukee respectively, right? Are you (or the officials you reference) implying that their teams would actually leave the Cactus League and go to (I presume) Florida? Geographically speaking, I suppose Milwaukee training in Florida wouldn’t be that much of a stretch, but Seattle?
Or perhaps Las Vegas would then be halfway to their goal of four teams for the Casino League…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Actually
I wrote that poorly.
What transpired is that the mayor of Surprise (not Peoria) stated that she was advised that if a ticket surcharge were forced upon them, it could void the contract they have with the Royals and Rangers. Goodyear voiced similar concerns. And Peoria said they wanted to have an attorney look into it as well. Maryvale said that the Brewers felt so strongly about the surcharge, they might decide to leave, as their contract comes up soon anyway.
I don’t think it was so much that teams would leave the Cactus League en masse as it was a problem with violating terms of existing contracts. Doesn’t matter now anyway, the ticket surcharge idea has been 86’ed.
So what would a voided contract mean?
Would the Royals and Rangers not want to play at Surprise anymore? Or would the city of Surprise not let them? Both of those seem highly unlikely. Same for Goodyear and the Reds/Indians.
I guess I’m not seeing where the leverage is if somehow a ticket surcharge is “forced upon them”. With the exception of Milwaukee, I don’t see any of the other teams mentioned here being taken even halfway serious if they actually threatened to move. And if they don’t leave the Cactus League, they’d still have to deal with ticket surcharge.
Did these city officials (Surprise and Goodyear) explain what would happen in the event of a contract voiding? If not, why even voice the concern?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
There are all sorts of ramifications
of a voided contract. The potential to move elsewhere is just one of them. They could hold up the cities for better terms, improvements, all sorts of things.
If you think this is not a possibility, consider the fact that the deal the Dodgers and White Sox have with Glendale pretty much broke the mold in terms of ST contracts. You think the Rangers, Royals, Mariners, Brewers, etc have not looked at that and said, wow, would we like to have a deal like that?
It is no different than when the Cubs went to play at Camelback Ranch last year and went, wow, we want a facility like that, which is what got this whole thing started.
The arms race in the Cactus League is getting ridiculous as it is, which is definitely one of the reasons the Commissioner’s Office has gotten involved. The arms race would just accelerate exponentially if a bunch of teams could suddenly get out of their contracts early because of an imposed ticket surcharge.
but what are the "realities" of a voided contract?
Yes, moving elsewhere is one of them. But I’m hoping you’d agree that except for Milwaukee, moving elsewhere isn’t a likely option for the teams in question.
So what else is there? You said they could hold up the cities for better terms, improvements, all sorts of things. Could you expand on that? What’s the “or else” part of that scenario? What would these teams be willing to do if the cities balk at better terms, improvements, and all sorts of things.
Again, short of relocating, I don’t see much leverage here. If you do, please explain what other forms of leverage there are and the consequences of that leverage being ignored.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
the possibility of relocation is always implied
if not actually threatened. And it is not necessarily to Florida or Vegas, either. The White Sox proved that when they bolted Tucson and left Pima County with a nice stadium debt and no team.
Heck, if a ticket surcharge were imposed, a team could move to Indian land, as the Rockies and D’Backs are and avoid it that way. Or they could say they are moving to Hohokam and negotiate a deal that says Mesa has to pay the surcharge out of their coffers.
Whatever. The point is, if all these contracts get voided, it is a big disaster and suddenly all bets are off and everybody is scrambling for the best deal they can get.
BTW
this most recent go-round with the Cubs and Mesa shows that the possibility of relocation doesn’t even have to be very tangible to create a lot of consternation. This latest batch of information confirms something else I have been saying for awhile now…the Naples thing was never all that threatening.
The state of Arizona and individual cites have a lot of money invested and incurred a lot of debt to get these ST complexes built based on a future payoff in tourism and economic development. They have all seen what happened in Tucson.
All the movement of teams in the past 20 years has created an atmosphere that has resulted on cities insisting on long term contracts with teams, so they at least have a chance to realize the ultimate economic payback. If any of the contracts gets voided on a technicality, there will be political fallout like crazy.
Which is why...
… you’re likely to never see that happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
More to the point
it is why MLB and the Cactus League won’t allow any policies to be implemented that would potentially void any existing contracts.
So the contracts have "no ticket surcharges allowed" built into the existing language?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I have no idea
what the contract language is. I would seriously doubt that the language is “no ticket surcharge”, but more likely gives the teams protection from fees or surcharges being levied without their approval. Basic contract stuff.
But, again this is nitpicking. One of the parties to the contract has gotten legal advice to this effect and it is what it is.
you mean, in your opinion, this is nitpicking.
in my opinion, this is interesting stuff that I am curious about and helps to explain all aspects of the overall picture – at least, as much as possible.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No it is not my opinion that it is nitpicking
It is nitpicking, period.
I did not offer this information as an authority on Cactus League contracts, it was simply to provide some further evidence as to why MLB came out so strongly against the ticket surcharge. Most people on here thought it was just an Anti-Cub sentiment when in reality it went much deeper than that.
It really isn’t even important whether the legal opinions stated were correct. The point is that it was enough, just the possibility, combined with other factors mentioned, to blow up the ticket surcharge idea completely.
I realize it is much easier to think about this as “Reinsdorf hates the Cubs” of “Selig is out to get the Cubs”, but that is juvenile. Nobody who knows anything about this believes that.
Well, let me clarify
I actually enjoy exchanging posts with Ballhawk more then just about anyone else on here. He makes intelligent points and the questions he asks require some thought to answer. And he possesses an attribute that is very appealing: a sense of humor.
But, I can see through him. He asks me where teams would go….I respond. He asks what a voided contract means, I respond. He asks with the realities are, I respond. He asks what the contract language is, I sort of respond. What is the next question, what phase was the moon in when the contract was signed?
I am always a sucker for people that truly want more information. I try to provide it if I can. But, this is about trying to bury the salient point by trivializing it.
It’s kind of ironic…RiskyBusiness doesn’t want to get bogged down in details and Ballhawk wants to do just that. Hmmmm.
Anyway, sometimes I think Ballhawk has taken one too many big flies off his noggin. :-)
and I'll clarify in return
The reason I went down this sub-path was to (hopefully) complete the circle to what I see are two different perspectives – looking at this from a local political/city official/contract/legislative/etc.etc. angle which azjazzman seems to have down pretty cold and then from a more chicago “gitterdone” nitty gritty physical angle.
And by “physical angle” I mean you can have all the back room deals and contract negotiations you want, but every spring, teams are going to be training somewhere. So it’s interesting to me to go down the what-if path because what I strongly dislike – beside most everything that Bud touches – are empty threats.
So when issues such as relocation are floated, whether its the Cubs and Naples or Brewers and wherever; or even Royals/Rangers and Reds/Indians (if it ever got that far)… I like to take them at their word and follow down the path that they would take if they did indeed go through with it.
btw – in a 20+ year career, only one big fly off the noggin. And that was down in Florida during Spring Training ironically enough. Dodgers at Indians in Winter Haven. Were it not for a strong pair of imitation Oakleys, I might be a one-eyed ballhawk today…
Avast ye matey! I be cheerin' for Pirates now. Arrgh... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'm glad to hear that
I took a golf ball (from about 150 yards) off my coconut one time, and it was not fun.
I think this stuff gets to be Pavlovian after a time. Teams see what other teams have done (especially the White Sox, which to me really jumped the shark in terms of sheer audacity and throwing good faith/integrity out the window) and they say, hey, if that is what works! It just ups the ante in terms of what teams will do/say to get the best deal they can.
But, it has the opposite effect, too. It makes politicians and the public in general very wary of trusting the commitments that teams make or what they say they will do.
That is what is a really important issue here. From what I have heard and read, the Cubs have been very straightforward in their dealings with Mesa (and Naples, for that matter). In return, I think Mesa has gone the extra mile. The MOU is an interesting experiment. So far, even though the MOU has no legal weight whatsoever, everyone has been circumspect in living up to it. It will be interesting to see if that remains the case as the issues get tougher and the terms harder to live up to.
I'd like to know why
you and Al have consistently dismissed the Naples option? Politically speaking this has always looked like the path of least resistence. When you factor-in the Esmark capital infusion and Ricketts’ & Crane’s ties to SW Florida it still looks like a serious option.
I’ve come full circle on this issue. Originally I slammed the Rickett’s family for even considering leaving Mesa. I now believe the opposite is true. Ask the average Mesa resident whether the Cub proposal is (1) an investment in a LT partnership that will more-than-pay-for-itself through tax revenue, support for existing businesses, and spurring new development, or (2) a transparent attempt by a greedy billionaire owner to extort a new stadium at the expense of teachers, police/firemen, and sick children. Don’t bother responding I already know the answer.
Well, I will respond.
The answer is (1).
The last thing you can call Tom Ricketts is “greedy”. Further, the argument that this is “at the expense” of teachers, fire/police and sick children is specious and untrue.
Naples won’t happen. Book it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Why the steadfast optimism?
Sure, I’ll concede the major parties want to keep the Cubs in Mesa however I see zero support at the citizen taxpayer level. Jazz’s assertion that “the Cubs should be seen and not heard” is kind compared to the attitudes I encountered during my recent ST trip. Unless Bud’s MLB proposal contains Esmark-esque private capital to offset the lack of public financing I’m definately not “booking it.”
I might own a house in Pima County but I’m a Cub fan first. If the initiative fails and the Cubs choose Florida you won’t read any complaints from me. I predict by early 2015 we’ll be reading how the Cubs’ virtual ATM machine has been a boon to SE Florida. Should that happen the folks in Mesa will have only themselves to blame. Perhaps then they’ll understand the distinction between an investment and an entitlement?
I'm gonna respond also
because you clearly DON’T know the answer. And my answer is significantly different from Al’s.
I originally thought the Naples thing was real. In fact, I got into debates with people who from Day One thought that it was just a ploy to extort a new facility out of Mesa. I never saw it that way, and in a lot of ways I still don’t.
What I do think now, and this is not just my opinion, it has now been confirmed by news stories and various reports, that the Naples idea never went very far. The people there never really got to the stage of having a real plan from a financing standpoint, land availability or apparently, zoning, which is an issue there. And the Cubs clearly did not pursue this option very seriously.
But, it did have the desired intent, which was to get the attention of Mesa officials and intensify the dialog between them and the Cubs. So, imo, no harm, no foul.
I do not buy into the greedy billionaire extortion theory, but I also do not agree with Al that the perception of a new stadium being at the expense of teachers, police/fireman, etc is specious, either. It is a common and very public perception. While it is true that money, at least in the proposals we have seen so far, would not come out of the general fund, you do have to deal with the public perception and it is what it is. If you don’t manage perceptions properly from a PR standpoint, your plan falls apart, as we have already seen with the ticket / rental car surcharge plan.
Let me clarify this a little
in the most recent financing plan, there was about $20+M that Mesa was going to have to kick in for the new stadium. It was never made clear where this money would come from, but most assumed the city coffers, which only fueled the debate over teachers/fireman, etc. It’s a real issue, as the paper is filled with stories of teachers getting laid off, fire stations being mothballed, etc, every day.
Obviously...
… funding police/fire, teachers, etc. is an important function of any city.
I seriously doubt any such money would be used for financing a ST stadium.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Don't know where that $20+M
would have come from other than the city’s general fund. It’s not like they have money set aside for ST parks.
BTW, Mesa just this last year paid off the bonds that were issued to build Hohokam. They paid them off early and the debt service payments far exceeded what their part of the ST take is, so money out of the general fund was ALREADY being spent on a ST stadium.
That's strange.
They paid them off early using funds other than the ST take? Why would they do that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Not strange at all
Because debt-service payments on Hohokam Stadium were soaring as the result of a back loaded 20-year financing agreement negotiated in 1996 (when times were good). Debt payments rose to more than $1.7 million in the 2008-2009 fiscal year and a peak of more than $2 million in the 2010-2011 fiscal year.
In 2007, after near record attendance, the Cubs hauled in $2,445,802; the city $973,140 and the Hohokams $890,890 from Spring Training.
This caused the city to terminate it’s contract with the Hohokams and renegoiate with them on a new contract that altered the splits. And this was after the Hohokams sprung for a new $600,000 scoreboard. They were already operating at a deficit.
Remember: Mesa has no property tax and is entirely dependent upon sales tax revenue.
This is why a significant item in the MOU is the fact that the Cubs would operate the new stadium. Anybody that thinks the City is getting rich on Spring Training is completely mistaken.
I like the look on Colvin's face there.
Hopefully, we see it many more times this season!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 29, 2010 9:46 PM CDT reply actions
Me either.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 29, 2010 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like its gonna be Christmas morning when I was a kid.....I'm so happy!!!!!
"Nady and his weak beard steps in"--Cubbie-Tim on Mar 12, 2010 9:53 PM CST reply actions
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 29, 2010 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
We all are.
I can tell you that Tom Ricketts is just as excited as all of us. He said, when he was out on the berm, that he couldn’t wait to get the season started.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ricketts came to the outfield...... wow
I wish he had done that when I was there. That’s something.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
he's a cool dude!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on Mar 30, 2010 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Nothing from nothing.....
…but Ricketts needs to get out on a berm or the bleachers a bit more. He is one pasty white guy.
"When they signed Fukudome, I knew they were trying to get me fired". - Ron Santo, January, 2008
That picture is great
Of the guys at home plate… they all look like they are REALLY enjoying themselves… let’s hope that attitude continues to the regular season.
What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?
Got my first set of tickets from the single game sale.
Do they ship tickets in separate envelopes? I ordered 3 tickets to 2 games, received tickets to one of the games. I usually do print at home, but there’s really no reason to pay to do that anymore as far as I’m concerned.
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
Yes, they usually do ship separately if you made separate orders.
I think print-at-home is one of the biggest scams in ticketing. You have to pay them to use your paper and ink? Costs them zero. It’s 100% profit. Despicable.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Which is why I opted for my tickets to be shipped in the mail.
And, IIRC, the Brewers don’t have the pay-to-print scam. Or, they didn’t have it when I got tickets to the Cubs-Brewers game on June 6, 2007 at Miller Park.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
It's hardly a scam when they offer free shipping or will call.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Mar 30, 2010 8:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Indeed.
But that fee to print at home is the reason I selected the “free shipping” option when I get the tickets.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions
While you are correct...
… I still think it’s a scam for a company to charge for a product that costs them nothing, and costs YOU something.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I would guess the print at home feature...
…took some money to develop. So the idea that it didn’t cost any money probably isn’t true. Again if a person doesn’t like paying for that feature, they shouldn’t use it.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Mar 30, 2010 10:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
I suppose the software for creating the PDF’s did cost something to develop.
I’m guessing the ticketing companies have made that back and then some.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah I think they have definitely made their money back at this point.
I’m not sure if they are updated that software or not. I would guess they probably do to increase the security of the barcodes and whatnot.
Thanks for making me argue for the ticket companies, I feel dirty now.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
LMAO
I won’t ever use print-at-home unless it’s for an event that there’s no other way to get the ticket on time.
I like having an actual ticket, not a printout.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm the same way.
I’ve used it before, but only out of necesscity. I would say 25% of the time the bar code doesn’t scan properly and then you have to go back to the ticket window to get an actual ticket.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Is it just the Cubs that have the print-at-home fee?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
That's different than what I remember,
Because when I went to Miller Park in June 2007, it did not cost me anything to print the tickets there. Essentially, that pay-to-print ridiculousness didn’t happen to extend to Milwaukee Brewers games.
So, when I got the tickets to the loge section at Miller Park, I printed the tickets off a printer at my old college and only paid for the price of the ticket as well as the sales tax.
Of course, there is also the possibility that things have changed since March 2007, when I got those tickets.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That's ridiculous.
It’s not a scam when you have options to get the tickets for free. No one is forcing you to use your own ink and paper.
Would it be nice to have this option for free? Sure. But the cubs are in the business of making money and if you choose to use one of their “products” that costs an extra cost instead of using their free option, I don’t feel sorry for ya.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Mar 30, 2010 8:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I agree.
There’s no reason not to use will call for tickets if you don’t want to have them mailed.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Bud Selig phone interview with the AZ Republic today
I am not going to make another FanShot and subject myself to more abuse from the peanut gallery. But, those who questioned Bud Selig’s authority in the Cubs/Spring Training issue might want to check this out.
Turns out the commissioner’s office has complete authority over every aspect. The C.O. approves all contracts with municipalities for Spring Training sites. It approves whether or not a team is allowed to move it’s training location. And as the article states, SELIG WOULD HAVE TO GIVE HIS APPROVAL TO ANY FINANCING PLAN. (Caps mine).
Also, the interview/article makes clear, as I have been saying, that the Cactus League ticket surcharge plan is officially dead.
Also
Al, you took exception to my saying that Mesa was going back to square one, but apparently Mesa Mayor Scott Smith agrees with me.
In this article http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/152313 he is quoted as saying, “In many ways, we are starting from scratch.”
which would imply, of course
that in other ways, they’re NOT starting from scratch. Right?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 30, 2010 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I think the only way
that they are not starting from scratch is that they DO have an MOU in place and that gives them some time with exclusive negotiating rights with the Cubs.
In every other sense, particularly getting a financing plan together, getting it thru the legislature and voted on by Mesa, they are at square one.
Sheesh, you guys sure like to nitpick, don’t you? Why not put some of that energy into your 2010 projections and season predictions? The ones from last year were pretty awful. Most everyone was picking the Mets to win the East. Al not only had the Mets, but he also had the Cubs and Indians in the World Series! Both the Mets and Indians lost more than 90 games…
Yeah, those predictions weren't so good, were they?
You’ll see mine here on Sunday.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
about as likely as Dunn winning a Gold Glove
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Mar 30, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I think drew was just trying to be accurate.
and is not being accurate an important thing here?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Accuracy and parsing of words
ala Bill Clinton are not the same thing.
Anyone with half a brain knew Clinton was bogus when he said, “it depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is”, and anyone with a lick of common sense knows what Mayor Smith was saying here.
No, I knew all of that.
Nothing you’ve posted here surprises me. I’m not sure what Mayor Smith means by “in many ways”, but OK.
A deal will get done.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
When was the LAST time the commissioners office stopped
anyone from moving a spring training site?
I know, NEVER. If the Cubs don’t get a good deal, they will move to Naples.
azjazzman thinks the CO will stop them? Nonsense.
When was the last time
the Commissioner’s Office came out against a financing plan to pay for a ST facility, particularly one that had already passed thru a state House?
You guys are so blinded on this issue, you are completely incapable of interpreting simple information. It is not that Selig is going to stop anybody, it is that he has the power to totally control the process from this point forward. Several posters jumped me the other day when I said that if Selig did indeed have this power, and now it has been confirmed hat he does.
Everything about this is unprecedented. I cannot recall the CO ever stepping in to take over a ST negotiation. But, clearly the CO has the power to do so, and nothing will happen from this point forward without their input and blessing. That is the real point of this.
And if you read the article at all, yes, Selig pretty much said the Cubs are not moving to Naples.
I think you mis-read that
Here’s the quote:
Therefore, Selig would have to give his blessing to any financing deal or any plan to move the Cubs elsewhere.
Selig obviously has no authority over the AZ legislature. And he’ll work to get the Cubs the best deal possible, with the least impact to other teams.
Do you somehow think that the Cubs WANT a ticket tax? I don’t understand your point here.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 30, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
As I said previously
Selig doesn’t want or NEED power over the Arizona Legislature. He has power over MLB.
I think you misunderstand the whole issue. The sponsor of the bill has now mothballed the bill and it won’t even get voted on. You think Selig’s opposition had nothing to do with that? Wake up and smell the coffee. The AZ State legislature is not going to get into a legal battle with MLB over Spring Training. It is too important to the state.
Another thing you are mistaken about it Selig’s role. It is not to get the Cubs the best deal possible. It is to broker a deal that works for everyone, including MLB. And, as has been already demonstrated, to veto any ideas that are not in the best interest of baseball.
I don’t think the Cubs care much how they get a new ST complex, or who pays for it.
That's the best summary I have read.
There will be a deal brokered. If that includes action needed by the AZ legislature, a bill will be crafted that will pass.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That's a reach
The best interest of baseball Clause and Spring Training sites? No, Selig does not go that far. If somehow, someway, the AZ legislature completely balked at a new Cubs ST site, Selig would not oppose a Cubs move to Florida. He doesn’t waste that ultimate power on a spring training location.
What you don’t seem to understand is that Cubs fans don’t appear to care about the ticket tax. We’d pay it if AZ passed it. But if other funding mechanisms are found, great. I know other owners and fan bases hate the ticket tax and we understand that.
You seem to be very interested in the AZ/local politics of this. Cubs fans look at this and say, “get it done”. I think most Cubs fans are more concerned about the last roster spot and is the bullpen too young.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 30, 2010 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I give up
I have already addressed everything you have said here (and you are mostly wrong) so I won’t do it again.
The only thing I will say is that Al has posted a whole host of front page articles on this issue, there have been many, many FanPosts and FanShots about it, and several of his recent game previews and game recaps have had portions dedicated to it.
Cubs fans may be more interested in the last roster spot (as they should be), but the amount of posts about the new Spring Training facility indicates that there is significant interest, and the content of many of those posts make it clear there is a lot of bad information out there. I happen to think the “get it done” attitude is a large part of the problem. It doesn’t work that way, there are complex, multi-layered issues here, and your posts this morning are a case in point as to how a lot of folks on here are simply unwilling to try to understand even the basics about this.
Just trying not to get bogged down in the details
I said "get it done" because it is such a common phrase here, usually referring the free agent or trade decisions. But I have no expectations of an immediate or specific deal here. I’m confident that a deal will be consummated that will benefit the Cubs.
I’m sure this onion has more layers than I could peel. But why should I worry about a complex, multi-layered issues that A) I will have absolutely no input on, and B) should have minimal to no personal or economic impact on me? For in depth research, I am better served by researching a new company to invest in. Or projecting future Cubs ticket prices and the possibilities on PSLs at Wrigley Field.
I can see why you reference “more abuse from the peanut gallery”. But I think you get that because many of your post are uncivil to begin with. I’ve been polite here; you have not been.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 30, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
They will if there is no deal for a new stadium and the
development they want to do around the facility.
No, they won't.
Trust me on this one. The chances of the Cubs moving the spring camp to Naples are about equal to the chances of me being elected governor of Arizona.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
AZ will get done- IMO
It will just take time. Even though the MOU has been signed, signaling the Cubs and Mesa to hold direction discussions and leaving Naples out of the party, Florida does not have a qualifiable offer to match that they could even hypothetically discuss in public. Florida is in the middle of legislative session right now, and the intent to find $15mm from state funds to match local incentives was quickly squashed, let alone the inability of the private group to ever specifically confirm their $75mm in capital.
The Cubs want to be in Mesa, Mesa wants them to be in Mesa, Selig wants them in Mesa, contrary to the posturing of other owners the other Cactus teams want them to be in Mesa. This will get done, everything else right now is just politics.
"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"...Jimmy Buffett
by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 30, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with all of this
butI do think there is a real possibility that all of the timetables will get pushed back until the state economy improves significantly. The MOU contains timelines that may have to be re-negotiated and there may be an interim plan to do some upgrades at Hohokam/Fitch in the meantime.
This may very well be true.
And if that happens, the Cubs will likely be fine with an interim step, and get their new place in 2015 instead of 2013.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Exactly
it’s a matter of good faith. Mesa has demonstrated that they will go to the wall for the benefit of the Cubs. Heck, the Mayor was even willing to take on the rest of the Cactus League (an ill-conceived move on his part, but you gotta like his moxie). The State Legislature and the Governor have demonstrated their commitment. The state as a whole has more than stepped up to the plate on Spring Training issues in the past 15 years.
I think the Cubs are (or should be) satisfied that this will get done. It is just the timing that is bad, and that is mostly because of the economy. It is a tough sell to allocate the money for a new ST stadium when literally thousands of teachers are losing their jobs. My gf just got her position as a middle school librarian eliminated for next year, and she has been doing that at the same school for 24 years.
Agreed again.
When all is said and done, this will wind up with something that benefits the entire Cactus League, which I am sure you will agree is a good thing.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Sorry to hear about the job loss
Librarian are much more important to a child’s education than people realize.
"On offense, your most precious possessions are your 27 outs" - Earl Weaver
by RiskyBusiness on Mar 30, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah
thanks for that. The whole thing is frustrating, but it does serve to show how bad things are. Arizona always takes hits for being near or at the bottom in terms of funding for schools, but even with that, the budget shortfalls are staggering. It really is heart-rending to see career educators, who never made that much of begin with, suddenly get pink slipped.
You don't even have to get elected Governor, Al
Just get in as Secretary of State and wait for whoever is Gov. to get indicted or booted out of office (or leave, like Janet Napolitano),
I shouldn’t say that. I’m sure Jan Brewer is a nice lady. I do give her kudos for being out in front on the Cubs issue and showing up at the game in a Cubs jersey. I didn’t notice in the pictures…it wasn’t a Kerry Wood jersery like the bozos in FL were wearing was it??
No, it was a plain Cubs jersey with no name on the back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Richard Nixon would like to have a word with you.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
Who cares if he's a Cubs fan? This is a football forum! He is a PACKER fan as well. So, from now until March, I’m sure he’ll dedicate a lot of his time here. In late March, then we can be enemies during the baseball season. Besides, the Cubs have perhaps the most loyal baseball fanbase in the country. You have to respect that.
Go Pack!
by Jabooty on Jan 25, 2010 2:58 PM EST
by Vermont Cubs Fan on Mar 30, 2010 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
And now, let's end this part of the discussion.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
The "reply" link is your friend.
Anyway, correct. See above. The Cubs are not moving to Naples. Ever.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
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