Ahem...so why does the Bullpen really stink so bad?
by kcjones on Apr 18, 2010 10:36 PM CDT
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OK....I don't think it particularly does.....BUT .... after all the love for the NL's 14th ranked offense....and a bit of encouragement from some recognized BCBers thought we'd try and figure out how to post a poll.
Is it Pinells's mismanagement? Jim's decisions about the roster? Scout's inability to evaluate pitching talent? Larry's coaching? Something else??
Personally.....an effective offense makes it all moot until October....and when you get that far.. mistakes and success in April are ancient history......
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no adam lind
"The roar from the crowd really fired me up," Burish said. "In warmups there were a lot of signs. One said 'Burish, my grandma is pregnant.' I don't know what that means. I skated by it and said, 'it's not mine.' "
by jesus christos on Apr 18, 2010 10:59 PM CDT reply actions
The "other" is my vote :)
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Oh...and Al......does this mean....
“Anyway, as Cubs fans we got two good things out of the game: a completely overtaxed Mets bullpen for next week’s series, and the Cardinals lost.”…..
If the Cubs don’t score a lot in NY……you’ll start laying some blame where I do?
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
OTHER
THE BULLPEN SUCKS
This is why the bullpen stinks. Because idiots like Jeff Samardzija are in the bullpen. That’s why. Because they suck.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
OTHER
Our seven man bullpen averages less than 2.5 years Major League experience.
It’s not a bullpen – it’s a daycare.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Oooooh, I like that!
Good job, Ken.
THE CHICAGO CUBS 2010 BULLPEN: KINDERGARTEN ROUND-UP!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yeah, and who are the ones who have blown the most saves?
Grabow and Marmol, the veterans.
The rookies aren’t the problem.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That logic works ...
when you conveniently put Shark into the veterans pool, and ignore Caridad.
Grabow, Shark and Cardiad have been bad, Marshall and Marmol have been serviceable (until yesterday). Berg and Russell have been fine.
My point exactly.
Berg & Russell have been fine — plenty of people said “too many rookies”.
Caridad, admittedly, has been bad.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Rookies
The problem is that you can get away with having 2 unproven youngsters in your bullpen, but not with having 4. When you 4 unproven pitchers you are left with regularly having to rely on unproven pitcher in a close game. Up until yesterday, Marshall and Marmol have basically been flawless, 2 of the three veterans in the penn.
Russell has been excellent to this point, but the others have not impressed me.
Berg has not pitched much, but I don’t think he has done enough to inspire confidence. Looked bad on opening day, had a couple decent outings and then looked mediocre against the Astros. Would you really trust him in the 8th inning in a close game at this point?
The other younger pitchers: Caridad, Gray, Smardzija have looked terrible. The real problem is that Grabow’s struggles (along with the injury to Guzman) have left the team with no reliable 7th and 8th inning pitchers. If Grabow were pitching well and Guzman were healthy then you would have 4 reliable veteran pitchers and 3 unproven middle relief guys, a ratio that is probably satisfactory.
by JSB on Apr 19, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brings to mind my favorite team nickname
For a few seasons with the youngest average age in the MLB , the Rockies were called " Todd and the Toddlers"
They got pretty good .
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on Apr 19, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
What was wrong with Rookies?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
It's a combination of a few things
1. Bad luck. This bullpen would be a lot better with Guzman in it. Also, the guys who have pitched are better than they’ve performed
2. Mediocre farm system. We’re seeing the results right now of what’s been a lackluster farm system for the past 2-3 years. Top farm systems have a large crop of above-average pitching prospects, and at least 1-2 of those guys turn into at least average relievers. Teams with good farm systems send down guys like Samardzija when they perform badly. but we don’t have that luxury because there aren’t many preferable options down in AAA.
3. Lack of money. Because we’re kind of hamstrung in regards to payroll, we weren’t able to buy our way out of our bullpen issues this offseason. In years past we’ve signed guys like Hawkins, Remlinger, Howry, and Eyre to fill spots in our pen. Not having 1 or 2 guys like that means we have to rely on 4 unproven youngsters instead of 2-3. Even if you have an elite farm system, you can’t expect to just “fill” more than half your bullpen with prospects. Top teams get their first 5 pen spots filled with proven commodities in the offseason then let their young guys (and minor league contract vets) fight it out for the last couple spots. We, on the other hand, were only able to fill 4 spots with proven guys (Marshall, Marmol, Guzmanand Grabow) because we didn’t have the money to add another guy or 2.
Brad Miller is god.
Other: Injuries
to Guzman and Gray. I still think Gray will end up all right as a seventh inning guy, and Guzman would have pitched the eighth. Of course, you have to be ready for injuries. So far, the Cubs’ plan B isn’t working out. Trades aren’t feasible in April. If by May 1, they aren’t pleased with what they have in the pen, they do have additional depth to draw on, their starting pitching prospects: Cashner, Jackson, Coleman, Atkins. Personally, I think a few more good starts from Gorzelanny bring up his value enough you might be able to trade him for a guy like Gregerson (who’s had a poor start), maybe including a guy like Blake Parker in the deal.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Pinells's?
Other: Injuries, some bad luck and a very early small sample size. I’m not necessarily saying this bullpen will be lights out, but it could very well settle down to some modicum of effectiveness.
Problems in the Pen
That is a terrible explanation for why the Cubs bullpen is not very good. Angel Guzman would have made a difference, but it doesn’t account for the lack of depth in the pen. I was even more insulted to hear an announcer refer to John Grabow as an above average lefty in the pen…any guys not good enough for the Pirates should be out of the majors unless they get picked up by the AL’s version the Kansas City Royals. Samardzija is a joke and no surprise a domer. However, the Cubs played a large role in messing up his development. It still is not the reason Samardzija has only one fringe-above average pitch that he can’t locate. I really hope the Cubs go out and trade/sign for a decent reliever rather then interfere with the development of future studs Andrew Cashner and Jay Jackson.
by SilvaForCyYoung on Apr 19, 2010 10:55 AM CDT reply actions
The Pirates traded Grabow...
…because he was due to become a free agent. It had nothing to do with whether he was or wasn’t “good enough.” I’m not saying he’s a great pitcher, because he’s not. But he may well be an above-average lefty out of the pen, given how bad so many lefty relievers are.
Aramis Ramirez
was a Pittsburgh Pirate. Wanna rethink that comparison?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 19, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
so was Barry Bonds
not that it will have any effect on SilvaforCyYoung’s rant
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on Apr 19, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Xavier Nady, Jason Bay
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
By the way...
…you might want to check into that Fanpost you wrote and participate in the discussion. Many of us can’t tell whether you’re serious or not.
Injuries...........
Not having Angel Guzman as our 8th inning guy and missing Ted Lilly for the 1st part of the year has hurt. Think about it, if Ted and Angel are healthy, our bullpen is:
Marmol, Guzman, Marshall, Grabow, Gorz/Silva and 2 young guys (Russell/Berg). Even with someone like Spellcheck it’s still very strong.
Pitching and hitting stink
The Cubs are 20th in MLB for runs scored against (4.83) and 19th for runs scored (4.33). Either one of those is going to be hard to overcome and be successful. Combine them? We’re lucky to be within 2 games of .500!!!
Other: Combo of...
a couple bad outings by a couple relievers coupled with lack of offence in too many games.
Just think of what a couple extra runs would have done for the team on those 4 blown holds/saves already this season. Suddenly the relievers don’t look quite as bad and the offence would have been producing more.
Just win the next game...!
How about outside of Marmol and Marshall
we don’t have any experience out there. And to be honest, not really a hell of a lot of talent outside of those two (Marmol and Marshall) either.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." -- Alvin Dark
They're just a steaming pile of poo is all
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