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Offense Disappears Entirely In 4-0 Cubs Loss To Mets

So let me get this straight.

The Cubs' offense vanished almost completely last night, producing only a single from Koyie Hill, a single by Mike Fontenot, an Alfonso Soriano double and a handful of walks, scoring no runs in a 4-0 shutout loss to the Mets, which was, believe it or not, the first shutout loss of the 2010 season.

And the response to this is to take a look at Braden Looper? The same Braden Looper who led the National League in earned runs allowed, in home runs allowed, and had the second-highest ERA of all NL qualifiers in 2009? And who won 14 games only because he had the second-highest run support of any NL starting pitcher last year?

Awful, awful idea. The only usefulness Looper might have is with his bat -- he's a .215 lifetime hitter who hit .254/.299/.333 in 2008 in 80 plate appearances with three doubles and a triple and a .632 OPS, which at this moment is 70 points higher than Aramis Ramirez's.

It would have been a really good idea to give A-Ram, who is clearly pressing, yesterday off and to give Chad Tracy a start -- Tracy has now spent 14 games without a single start, the only position player on the team who hasn't had one. No hitter can stay sharp getting two at-bats a week, but that's what Lou has given Tracy. And now, with lefthanders going tonight and tomorrow, you wouldn't give Tracy a start against them, either.

Lou Piniella's idea of shaking things up appears to be switching around his leadoff hitter, which produced three hits from Marlon Byrd on Monday and nothing from Kosuke Fukudome last night (save one walk).

Star-divide

Carlos Zambrano's solid six innings were wasted. Z lowered his ERA by more than two runs by allowing only a pair of tallies in those six innings -- and even that might have been avoided if he would have just thrown strikes to Mets pitcher Mike Pelfrey, who came into this season with a lifetime batting average of .085. That's the second time in the last week that a Cub pitcher has gotten himself into trouble by walking his opponent.

With two out, how can you not throw strikes to a hitter this bad? Obviously, Z then got angry with himself for walking Pelfrey and served up a meatball that Jose Reyes smashed into the gap in left-center for the only two runs the Mets would need. Adding the usual insult, Fernando Tatis later slammed a two-run, pinch-hit homer off John Grabow to put the game away in the eighth. Grabow's ERA now stands at 9.53 and his 2.29 WHIP is... well, apparently enough for the Cubs to look at Braden Looper, which is frightening.

This may sound clichéd, but no team is as bad as it looks during a losing streak. The Cubs are better than this, and they have to take advantage of solid starting pitching. They have nine quality starts in 14 games and if you throw out Z's awful outing on Opening Day, have generally been good in every game since then. Obviously, scoring zero runs is going to win you zero games, but every time a starter goes out there and gives you six or seven solid innings, you simply have to win those games.

And Braden Looper isn't the answer.

Finally, the last two days I've had a chance to listen to a bit of each game on WGN radio. Keith Moreland, subbing for Ron Santo in this series, does an excellent job -- I had not heard him before. When Santo retires, Moreland would be a worthy successor. In the meantime -- can he still hit?

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And feeling awful, Cubs Bad and Hawks Bad

I am in sports hell at the moment. If the Hawks don’t get it going I have this to look forward to? YUCK!!!

by niuhuskie224 on Apr 21, 2010 8:05 AM CDT reply actions  

Football is five months away…

The World Cup is less than two months away.

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am actually

very very excited for the world cup. In all seriousness. If the Hawks lose and the Cubs continue to look this bad, what do Chicago Sports fans have to look forward to.

Bulls – Praying for Lebron, Bosh, etc. If we dont get any of them, basketball is dead here for a long time.
Hawks – They are a playoff lock for the next 10 years making the regular season almost pointless so that season, much like this season was fun but it all was a build up to the playoffs.
Cubs – Bad now, bad contracts, can only hope for every prospect to come through.
Bears – Defense = Bad meaning Bears = Bad.

This could be a very tough next few years for all of us.

by niuhuskie224 on Apr 21, 2010 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

You can always look South to the Dan Ryan and 35th...

That was cruel. Sorry.

I am incredibly excited for the World Cup. I’m taking those weeks off work just to watch in peace and quiet. I may even go back home to watch it there so I can get a partisan call of the games and get drunk with my kind at 7 a.m.

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

For those of you who enjoy the World Cup, enjoy.

It really doesn’t interest me.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

When our soccer teams

are scoring more runs than our baseball team, it doesn’t bode well for the future.

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you mean these guys?

Sir Linkalot


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Apr 21, 2010 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not just that

but lockouts looming too in NFL.

So looking like an ugly Bears season followed by an even uglier LONG offseason.

There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons

by Allie on Apr 21, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

And the NFL has released its schedule.

2011 Chicago Bears schedule.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

They did, they did...

2011 Minnesota Vikings schedule.

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

you are correct

damn me and my copy and paste ways…

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

Actually, if you page down,

You see the 2011 Minnesota Vikings schedule.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um, no you don't.

This is still 2010.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Goodness,

Don’t mind me, I have clearly forgotten how to think.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Here you go,

Linky linky

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Checked out APC this morning?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

A little bit.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

many thanks

Shooting to be in NY for Pack/Jets and wear a Favre mask!! Haloween and all..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

My family might go to NE for Packers-Patriots next year.

Depends on how the tickets scenario works out.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

First time I ever clicked Flag

Didn’t realize you could flag a comment for being a Troll…. Guess ur not a troll if your a packer fan on a Cubs site :) And no I didn’t flag it.

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

And he was nice enough to provide the Bears schedule first and everything

No pleasing some folks, I guess.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Just giving grief for being a Packer fan.

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

My old sig line

Was a remark delivered on the Packers blog to a poster who couldn’t make that distinction.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Go Pack Go!!

That koolaide turned my tongue blue.

by BleedsbluinMI on Apr 21, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's usually pretty light-hearted, though

Most people can cast away baseball rivalries on a football blog pretty easily. It’s the trolls from DN (and those who always rise to the bait) that make APC unreadable at times.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

The Green Bay Press Gazzette blogs are even worse. Didnt know there were quite so many of us Cheesehead/Cub fans.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno

APC people troll all the time over at DN. Really, APC is sort of a collection of trolls anyway. The writers couldn’t care less if what they write is true and the worst kind of trash is tolerated.

by ol Pete on Apr 21, 2010 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Usually hit up..

Packerchatters or Packer froum for Packer chat..I never found APC to be very active..though its been a while since I’ve been there..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gameday is different

Other than that, yeah – it’s a lot of Brandon and Mitchell talking to each other.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Packer piece..

has been a lot easier. They have kept my sanity. The ’70’s and half of ’80’s were wicked for both clubs..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can attest to that.

Wasn’t it Rodgers_for_MVP who gave me all kinds of grief right after the Vikings-Saints playoff game?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Chicago Fire play during the summer too

I think I’m going to get more into their team. I think the World Cup will help get me excited for soccer.

This team might turn it around but until they do I need something sports related to take my mind of the Cubs.

by IllinoisCubs on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

i have

My Vikings to look forward to. Should be a fun season for the Purple.

SKOL VIKINGS 2010!!

by Mr.Cub22 on Apr 21, 2010 1:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Ironic email from the Cubs

This was in my in box this morning

“The Season is underway – don’t miss your chance to get rewarded!”

A sales pitch for a Cubs credit card. Thanks guys for giving me my demented morning laugh.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 8:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Yesterday's game was pathetic.

The bench’s body language said it all. There is a lack of spirit that permeates this team. It’s quite infuriating to watch. I posed a question in the game threads: is this team more annoying than last year’s? Those kind enough to answer said this year’s was worse.

Of course, Looper isn’t the answer. But if it leaked, there is certainly a high level of interest by the front office and the on-field management. God help us.

Santana tonight. God help us indeed.

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:07 AM CDT reply actions  

It is Perez tonight and Santana tomorrow

but I think CHASE Maddux ( who is around 14) could shut out the Cubs.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 8:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, right.

Pérez… Once full of promise, now a fifth starter—at best. And the Cubs will make him look like the Mexican Sandy Koufax.

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Bingo

Perez who can walk the ballpark, will baffle the Cub hitters for at least 6 innings.

by Grockcubs on Apr 21, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

IIRC he baffled the Cards in his last start only to have the bullpen give it away. The thing with guys like him, is you can get the wild one and do great or get the guy who is on and be overwhelmed. Jonathan Sanchez used to be like that.

by ol Pete on Apr 21, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Weren't we supposed to be feasting off the Astros and Mets?

The Cubs could easily be in last place very soon. They are doing nothing right. Z walking the pitcher may have not hurt his ‘quality start’, but it was awful

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 8:11 AM CDT reply actions  

once you walk a pitcher

you should automatically get the loss and a non-quality start

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I consider quality start to be an overrated statistic

To paraphrase Chris Rock

 YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO PITCH SIX INNINGS AND GIVE UP THREE RUNS! THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AVERAGE, NOT QUALITY!

I’m sure a bunch of people came up with the metric, and I am not pooping on stats in general. I just think the bar is way too low.

Either add an inning or subtract a run or factor in the fact that headcases like Zambrano usually take 108 pitches to throw six innings.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 21, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Adding an inning works for me

It’s a Quality Start, meaning you should save your whole team pain, bullpen included.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

ya..i agree

It’s kind of like evaluating the opposite sex..one man’s quality is another man’s junk..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right that a 4.50 ERA.....

.. which is what you get if you give up three runs in six innings, is not “quality”.

However, in most cases, it should be enough for your team to win.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

IMO, a quality start should be defined as any outing of 6 innings or longer in which the pitcher puts up an ERA of 4 or less

While a CG, 4-run outing doesn’t sound incredibly good, it at least seems more valuable to me than a 6 IP, 3 ER start.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you are going to say six innings....

… it should be 2 runs or less.

For 3 runs or less, a 7 inning outing might be OK, but that would still be 3.86.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Right

I originally toyed with the idea of saying “6 IP and 2 ER, or 7 or more and 3 ER”. That would also be fine with me, although its really only different from my “6 or more and ERA < 4” in the case of the 9 IP, 4 ER start.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

But if a 4.50 ERA

is the CEILING? Than everything less than that is quality.

6+ innings pitched with 3 or fewer ERs.

Not awful. You should be able to win a game like that, if you have a non crap offense.

There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons

by Allie on Apr 21, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

would depend

on the bullpen…

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

It isn't with a below average offense....

The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."

by kcjones on Apr 21, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

And just to play Devil's Advocate

Even if you subtract a run from the stat, Z’s start last night would still qualify.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

That is true

And my major beef with Zambrano is innings.

Seven innings; 3 runs or less.

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 21, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

Most quality starts are better than that.

Follow me on Twitter here and catch my twice-weekly Cubs news updates here.

by daver on Apr 21, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then make the better ones quality starts

And call six innings and three runs average

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 21, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

But this goes to 11.

Follow me on Twitter here and catch my twice-weekly Cubs news updates here.

by daver on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

6 IP, 3ER

Is just a the minimum qualification and not THE definition of a quality start

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

In a perfect world...

What would be the definition of a quality start?

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, to me the word "quality" means something pretty darn special.

So I would set a pretty high bar – 6 IP, 2 ER for an ERA of 3.00.

It gnaws at me a bit that you’d only have to go 6 innings to get a QS, but sadly the game has changed to where starters aren’t really required/expected to go deep into the game. So be it. But the time that you are in there, I expect you to pitch well. An ERA of 4.5 is not well. 3.00 is.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think the stat is legit simply because:

We live in the age of baseball that we do. Gone are the days of many guys who can go the distance with regularity, as I’m sure you realize being a much more seasoned baseball fan than I am ;)

All I’m saying, it is still a hard thing to come by, regardless of what the era may be upon point of exit. If you have gone 6 innings, and have only given up 3 runs by that time, 9/10 your team is still in a position to win the game.

I play fantasy baseball, and we keep QS as a category. They are harder to come by than we think.

I do think we should have a system

7IP 3 ER Quality Start

6 IP 2 ER Oh Hey Now Start

6 IP ER You da’ Man Start

8 IP 12K’s 1H Holy Sh*t Start

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

being a much more seasoned baseball fan than I am

Next time someone calls me old, I’m just gonna tell ‘em I’m seasoned.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dont see age lol

But I needed to acknowledge someone with a few more baseball seasons in their memory

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've been seasoned with salt and pepper...

on top of my head. If they keep playing like this it’s going to be even more salty up there.

"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Apr 21, 2010 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good

call on Tracy yesterday. Ramirez is just not seeing the ball well at the moment, he could probably do with a day or two off. Zambrano did pitch well, although again his pitch count was entirely too high by the fifth inning, again. And walking the pitcher to bring up Reyes…dammit.

Braden Looper? No thanks.

by OmahaCub on Apr 21, 2010 8:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Rami

Anybody able to do a swing comparison of Rami from last year to this year? I watched a little bit of the Texas game last night and watching Nelson Cruz’s approach reminded me of Rami’s swing this year. Maybe the silent body swing doesn’t work for RAMI.

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry to say it but

The Cubs are closer to “rebuilding” than winning a championship. IMO – this won’t happen for a few years until after they can get rid of Sorriano, Z, Ramirez and D Lee’s roster spots.

I’d rather watch the farm teams right about now anyways…

by imknowdummy on Apr 21, 2010 8:12 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

what's wrong with Looper?

he’s been a better reliever throughout his career than Grabow

a 1 WAR reliever most of his years with STL and the NYM, he’s absolutely worth a look given he’s off the scrap heap

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=526&position=P#value

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:19 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

I doubt Looper will turn things around, but it’s worth LOOKING to see if he would be an improvement over what we have. The BCB aversion to scrap-heap guys — given our success with players like Edmonds and for the moment, Silva — baffles me. What’s the harm in LOOKING?

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because it's considered...

putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

The Cubs have MAJOR problems, including in their bullpen. You don’t fix that with Braden Looper. Even at his peak, you wouldn’t fix that level of problem with Looper.

I’ve no issue with reclamation projects, but the Cubs need a rock-solid, late-inning guy; period. Looper ain’t it.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

NOTHING will fix the '10 season

The Cubs roster simply isn’t good enough to contend

if its a low cost move that provides some depth it doesn’t matter

if you’re looking for an end-all be-all fix, you’re not going to find one. The roster is littered with holes

Fixes like Heath Bell that have been discussed require the Cubs sacrificing future pieces of the puzzle. Picking up Braden Looper sacrifices nothing but the major league minimum and a roster spot. It’s not a big deal

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know that's

probably the case, and you know that. It’s the Cubs that want to stay in this contention limbo. That said, if that’s the case – even if they won’t acknowledge it – then you don’t write checks that you don’t have to.

Either go get in this thing, and find some solid talent to help you do that, or start working on scaling back the budget, and working the roster for a long-term strategy. But don’t dabble in the garbage, looking to find some gold.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

its not writing a check you don't have to...

you’re sending a guy down and replacing his salary with Looper….

there’s no excess cost here

the long-term strategy is in play, its just not going to happen at the major league level until late in the year.

There’s absolutely nothing significant the Cubs can do to change the direction of this team or the future this year. Its a transition year. The offseason is where you’ll see if they make significant changes of direction (letting Lee, Lillly, potentially Ramirez walk or handing them extensions). Nothings going to be done until then

So why not make a move that makes the season slightly easier to get though and puts less stress on some of the young arms who might not be ready to be in the majors (or might not be qualified… see the WR masquerading as a RP)

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

What the hell you talking about?

Somehow Samardzija isn’t going to get paid if I send him to Iowa?

These guys are still assured of some portion of their ML salary, regardless of who you might send down. So the net effect in each each scenario is that yes, you’re taking on more salary simply to rearrange deck chairs on a certain infamous ship.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

well Shark has a ML contract so yes

him getting sent down doesn’t effect his pay

but any other relief option in the pen goes from making ML minimum to making minor league salary + 40 man pay

so its net zero effect

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

How does

a minimum 40-60k addition to payroll represent net zero?

Nevermind. This must be the new, new math. I won’t understand it.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

if you think the 40-60 k is making a difference

we have a significant difference of opinion in the Cubs cash flows

40-60K is worth an extra Win or two over the course of the season and the effects of preserving Marmol from being abused and starters from being asked to pitch deeper than they should into games because the bullpen is completely inept

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

we need a lock box

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Strategery.

Follow me on Twitter here and catch my twice-weekly Cubs news updates here.

by daver on Apr 21, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I totally, totally agree that the Cubs need a rock-solid, late-inning guy.

I said that repeatedly over the past two months. But the Cubs didn’t find that guy after Guzman went down, and seemed OK with the daycare that left Arizona — a strategy that many BCBers (including Al) endorsed or at least accepted.

I’m not really sure whether the Cubs can fix this season. My gut says no, but it is still early, and stranger things have happened — look what the Astros have done in a lot of second halves. But given the spot the Cubs are in, I want Hendry to be looking at every single option, including Braden Looper.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

sooooooo

who do we get then without raping our future?

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
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by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

At this point...

beats the hell out of me. This Grand Canyon-sized problem could be seen from miles away though, so to speak. I know the Cubs spent a great deal of time and effort trying to find the right guy (within their budget) this off-season, with no success. There were probably any number of a dozen guys just off the top of my head who could have stepped in then, and helped them avoid this.

Now? Who knows. You either severely overpay for quality, or dabble in the heap. Most GMs are going to have to be wowed to deal anyone, so it’s hard to say who is available, and who isn’t.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

exactly

at this point I say make do with what we have and/or Looper…..or trade idea of the century here…Shark to the Steelers for Mr. Sexual Assault…a QB cant be that bad of a reliever.

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Have you seen how long it takes Big Ben to throw the ball?

We’d be waiting for forever. It would be worse than having Lieber on the mound.

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by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait

Not Lieber…I can’t think of who this would be all of a sudden.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

not sure

hell he is out until the end of September in the NFL anyway so this would work out perfect

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

If you're talking QB relievers, you have to go old school...

Somebody like Earl Morrall, who subbed in after Griese broke his leg in Week 5. All Morrall did was win the rest of the regular season games (talk about your long man) and a playoff game before Griese came back to win the Super Bowl, resulting in a perfect 17-0 season.

Or how about Don Strock? 1981 Dolphins-Chargers playoff game, Fins down 24-0 after 1st quarter. Strock comes in and engineers an amazing comeback, finally taking the lead 38-35 late in 4th quarter. San Diego ties it with a late field goal, and then some guess-hitting DE hack named Winslow blocks what would have been the winning field goal on the last play. SD would eventually win it in OT. Strock passes for over 400 yards and 4 TDs.

But my favorite would have to be Steve DeBerg – gotta love that broken finger with the exposed metal pin in it, just flapping around as he took the snaps and threw the ball.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tom Brady would like a word

He was brought into a very high-leverage situation. Did pretty well, too.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

and that word would be....

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

please

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe we should ask the 30 GMs...

(Hendry included) who had the good sense not to take his calls last offseason.

The short answer is old, average (even at his peak), and of questionable state. Can you still send him out there on back-back days, and how long is it going to take to get him major-league ready again?

And for the record, I was no more a fan of the Grabow signing.

by Damen Jackson on Apr 21, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

ask the 30 GMs

right… cause they’re infallible right? The 30 GMs never make a mistake…. I mean some guy like Pedro Martinez wasn’t signed at all last year and he didn’t help the Phillies or anything

and guys NEVER get signed in the middle of the season to relief roles and work…

not saying Looper can have the impact Pedro had, but he’s a decent bullpen arm and he didn’t get work because he probably wanted to continue to start. If he’s now willing to accept a bullpen role why not take a look? The reason the other GMs haven’t taken a look is likely because: 1) They’re in rebuild mode and not looking to give innings to an older vet or 2) are in contender mode and Looper isn’t good enough to make a significant impact on a contender with a decent pen

Few teams are in the “we’re pretending we can contend right now and don’t have any viable bullpen arms mode”, which is where the Cubs are

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

But the Cubs are stuck with Grabow.

Why get another bad pitcher? Yes, Looper WAS a good reliever. His last good year in relief was 2004. No thanks.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

he was a good reliever in 2006 too

and then started since and was a competent starter in 07 and 08

why get him? because he’s better than everyone else (outside of Marmol and Marshall) that we have and he won’t cost anything

all your suggestions involve sacrificing prospects (bell) or taking on big contracts (wood) and getting the same result, a marginal improvement on this year.

Looper would cost the ML minimum and require no prospects

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

So because one scrap heap move worked...

… another one will? I don’t follow that logic.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wait. Wait. Wait.

This from the guy who’s been trying to calm the ledgejumpers by saying that the 2007 Cubs started off in a similarly poor fashion?

So because one slow-starting team ended up doing OK, another one will?

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

The 2008 Cubs started slowly, too.

Not THIS slowly, but they were 18-14 after 32 games and IIRC, there were some ledge-jumpers even then.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK ...

but there are other scrap-heap guys who have paid off for the Cubs — Reed Johnson and Carlos Silva. Granted, Silva was acquired in a different way and has only made a couple starts. And Dempster, as noted below.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

So because one scrap heap move worked...

…don’t try again? I don’t follow that logic.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

So because one scrap heap move worked....

… another one will? I don’t follow that logic.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, I know I repeated myself.

That’s still how I feel.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Silva isn't a scrap-heap move!!!

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

Three in six years.

Those three are all great moves. But that doesn’t mean every single player out there in the dumpster should be grabbed.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK, but why not take a look at Looper?

Especially now.

I can already predict your answer: You just don’t see the point.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

You're right.

How is he any better than what the Cubs already have?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only answer that really springs to mind is: He's experienced.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm in favor of Shark being demoted.

On that, I’m sure we agree.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's worth looking at Looper ...

to see if he can be better than Spellcheck.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, that does start the clock on their service time ...

and your faith in young relievers hasn’t exactly been rewarded so far this season.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about deported!

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've seen him throw baseballs during a game...

I have yet to ever see him pitch.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

historically

he’s been better than everyone sands Marmol

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought it was Mariano Rivera

Who warmed up to ‘Enter Sandman’

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

sans....

mind not working right

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

And I forgot to close that thing

/s

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

and actually --

it was three in four years. Dempster 2004, Reed and Edmonds in 2008.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.

That’s five seasons, not four.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

(sigh)

Well, you said six. So let’s call it even, huh?

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Absolutely!

:-)

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

what about Glendon Rusch, though?

He was released by Texas (right?) and was a good pickup.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

For a while.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

and I can think of another one ...

that paid some dividends: Glendon Rusch — who was quite good in 2004 and 2005.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Reed Johnsnon

But he is strictly a platoon player. Didn’t make the impact Dempster has or Edmonds in his short tenure. Great character guy but Hendy didn’t exactly spin straw into gold.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wasn't Reed platooning with Edmonds?

Of course, the left-handed side of the platoon is the one that has more value.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think he did.

In 2008, Jimbo pulled two guys off the scrap heap and turned them into a productive centerfield platoon. That’s the veritable definition of spinning straw into gold.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes....but we both agree. As a platoon player

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nothin' wrong with a platoon player...

…if you’ve got the right guy to partner him with.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

You mean like

Colvin and Soriano or Colvin and Byrd?

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Both have been hitting too well...

…to be put on the weak side of a platoon, but…yeah.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Byrd is

hitting .146 vs RHP. And Soriano has only a .294 OBP vs RHP.

If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL, cherry pick much?

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by daver on Apr 22, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Let me try another way...

Is this your position?

Just because one scrap heap move worked, we shouldn’t expect another one to, therefore we shouldn’t try any more scrap heap moves.

Because that’s how I (and I think others) are interpreting your comment.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

As noted above, the Cubs have three successes with dumpster dives over the last six years — Dempster, Reed Johnson, Edmonds.

Now, could another one come along? Sure. But does that mean every player in the dumpster should be acquired? No.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

But what's the harm in trying?

Dollars are minimal and shouldn’t be a factor.

Would giving Looper a tryout hinder the development of another pitcher? Doubtful, seeing as how if someone were ready to pitch in the bigs, the Cubs wouldn’t need to be giving tryouts to the Loopers of the world.

If his tryout sucks, the only thing I can see the Cubs losing out on is some time & effort by the scouts and I suppose Hendry as well. But that’s part of their jobs, right?

And if he does well enough in the tryout to merit a stint on the team, then keep him on a short leash, make sure he knows he’s the low man on the totem pole, and just see if he can help stop the bleeding while Hendry figures out the next move.

Again – what’s the harm?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes, but when you get shot in the crotch with a 12 guage.....

the paramedics aren’t worried about buying you a new pair of pants.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

so

you are saying we should pick up Dye to play RF?

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

and looper would not be the biggest solution

the Cubs are in triage right now – there are multiple injuries. Stop the bleeding, try to get the patient stable and send them to the nearest hospital.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

What if

the next hospital is Swedish Covenant? Wife went there once after a car accident (whiplash) and the doc came in and said, “So, how long have you had this cough?”

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

And if he does well enough in the tryout to merit a stint on the team, then keep him on a short leash, make sure he knows he’s the low man on the totem pole, and just see if he can help stop the bleeding while Hendry figures out the next move.

But you know the Cubs don’t operate that way. Bring Looper on in this way, and next thing you know, he’s the next Chad Fox.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry but a pre-determined outcome that exists only in your mind...

…is not reason enough to not give Looper a tryout.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily.

He could be the next Wade Miller.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or Joey Gathright.

Or Ryan Freel. Or Michael Restovich. Or Tony Womack. Or Craig Monroe. Or Scott Williamson. Or…

Need I go on?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Argh ...

My point was that if Looper’s bad, he won’t stick around forever like Fox. Anyway, Monroe came in a trade (I think), and Williamson wasn’t completely without value.

And wasn’t Restovich from Iowa? I could be wrong.

So with Dempster, Edmonds, Rusch and Johnson on one side and Womack, Miller, et. al on the other, you still think there’s no reason to LOOK at Looper?

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The point is...

…. all of those guys were “scrap heap” in one way or another, whether released or free agents or not. All of them failed as Cubs.

Yes, I think there’s no reason to look at Looper, just as I thought (correctly, as it turned out) there was no reason to look at Kiko Calero.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

but, but, but

… look how many of them succeeded with the Cubs?

You were right on Calero. But I’d contend that the situation there was different (just as you did with Silva). As far as we know, Looper has no potential medical problems.

But I’m done arguing this point with you. Have a nice day.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do they have one of those?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's a platoon player.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

On a

Serious note what is the status of the Cubs advance scouting? It seems like we are ALWAYS getting killed by the no name people on the other teams. Be it pitchers or hitters.

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Same with brewers. i’ve seen other teams’ fans say it as well. I think with pitching, the hitters need to see guys and get used to what they throw to have a decent chance.

by ol Pete on Apr 21, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Phil Nevin.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's a little different ...

the Cubs acquired Nevin in a trade. Looper wouldn’t (and Dempster, Rusch, Edmonds and Johnson didn’t) cost us any players in return. In other words, a trade for someone like Nevin, Monroe, etc. is a riskier venture than a FA signing.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand...

but Nevin was a scrap-heap player who we got in return for another scrap-heap player: Jerry Hairston Jr.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

and Ryan Dempster ...

was a scrap-heap player we got for nothing. This logic cuts both ways — so what’s the harm in a tryout for Looper?

It’s not like Hendry gave him a 3-year deal with an NTC.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Must be losing his touch...

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I also have no problem with giving Looper a shot...

there is nothing wrong with taking a look, almost no risk.

I was just pointing out a bad player.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

The latest on Looper from Carrie Muskat:
CarrieMuskat #Cubs scouts watched free agent Braden Looper throw but don’t expect a signing. They’re just searching for answers for ’pen

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

My stars!

It’s Chad Fox all over again!

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

it would seem

that one who had posted quite a bit of success in that role before, isn’t hurt, and only didn’t succeed when not in that role, would be a good type to attempt on

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Quietly muttering

Reed Johnson, too…

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

different route to Chicago ...

but Silva certainly was looking like scrap-heap material.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Carry it further..

Ryan Dempster was scrap heap..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'll give you Dempster.

One of Hendry’s best signings.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Silva doesn't count, because...

… he’s here for a known reason, not because the Cubs dumpster-dived on him.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

He definitely came via a different route ...

but he was AWFUL the last two seasons and has been really good so far. It’s worth checking to see if Looper can do something similar, especially now. And as for non-Silva scrap-heap success stories, there’s Dempster, Edmonds and Johnson.

Now, for every guy like that, there’s a Wade Miller or So Taguchi. But teams like the Cardinals pull guys off the scrap heap ALL the time, and have a lot of success with them. The Cubs have done it more sparingly, but have had repeated success.

The point is, the Cubs SHOULD look at Braden Looper. What’s the freaking harm?

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed..

I was not trying to agrue for Looper..and agree that signing old/hurt/bad pitchers is a crap shoot at best.

Just making conversation..I’m bored today

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

well ...

what if his bullpen session was great, and he’d accept a minor-league assignment to sharpen up? To dismiss such a situation out of hand — when we desperately need bullpen help — doesn’t make sense to me.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

can't hurt

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Looper reeks of panic, IMHO


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Apr 21, 2010 11:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

no, try taking a more realistic approach...

this team was counting on multiple things to go extremely well for them to have a real shot of contending…and there is still time for that to happen. However, what exactly would be the outcome if things DON’T improve dramatically in the next 2 months? I’ll tell you what will happen…some of this teams problems will actually have to be addressed in the short term and that would be a good thing. So relax, enjoy what little success they have and hope for more.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

your last line

sounds like the motto of a Cubs fan

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't go that far and panic driven decisions are often poor.


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Apr 21, 2010 11:39 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

At that price? Nothing....

Looper has a decent arm. Pitching out of the bullpen is much easier than pitching as a starter for most pitchers. He had a bad year last year, but lets not forget how awful Silva was last year, and so far he hasn’t been that bad. But, other than last year, Looper has definitely been serviceable over his career. I’ll take Looper’s history over Silva’s history any day of the week. I think its worth a shot considering that it costs almost nothing. Assuming that he is healthy and his arm isn’t shot, I would much rather see him than the crap that we are running out there right now.

by JSB on Apr 21, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Horrible times we are going thru right now

and a really poor display of hitting right now too.

A lot of the blame has to go to Lou for not getting Tracy in there for Rami and getting Nady in there a little more often. I think part of the problem is that maybe the hitters are thinking a little too much about their hitting (based on input form Rudy) and may have gotten away from their normal approaches at the plate. I see it Theroit, Rami and even Fukudome.

Bullpen is horrible for sure, but the lack of a consistent offense is what will kill this team down the road.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Apr 21, 2010 8:19 AM CDT reply actions  

No, I didn't say that, did I?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Got it.

No worries.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is a bad team

Old.. sloppy defense.. questionable bullpen.. can’t manufacture a run..has to wait for someone to hit a home run.. resembles too many Cubs teams of my youth.

Where is Mick Kelleher when we need him?

by 3744nsheffield on Apr 21, 2010 8:23 AM CDT reply actions  

Hitting right now

is absolutely crucial, and they just can’t seem to do it.

I’ve been saying it for a while now—if they start hitting, the bullpen is going to look better. With all the young arm we have, they can’t get settled or find a rhythm because they have to be absolutely flawless every single time they take the mound.

The starts are there, if the Cubs could just have a two or three run lead when we go to the pen, I think they’d be able to find a comfort zone, and possibly build some confidence for when they do find themselves in this situation.

This is, indeed, an average team, who’s not playing to average right now. Like Al said, they’re not as bad as they look right now, and they won’t be as good as they look when (if) they hit a long win streak.

I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal Graves

Writer at windycitygridiron.com -/-I http://www.twitter.com/kdoggers

by Kev H on Apr 21, 2010 8:24 AM CDT reply actions  

The bullpen had that 2-run lead..........

……….as recently as Sunday and was unable to hold it.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Apr 21, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

bullpen

Agreed BUT wouldn’t it be nice if we were able to have some of these young guys pitch in a game or two with a 4 or 5 run lead and get settled into a role. The bullpen is kind of the obvious punching bag with the underlying problem being HIT THE DAMN BALL when people are on base. Most of these games should have had larger spreads with different levels of stress on the bullpen.

Yes guys are young yes they haven’t held two run leads, neither have other established relievers elsewhere. Madson, Papelbon, K-Rod.

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Walking Pelfrey

was horrible, but I wouldn’t characterize the pitch to Reyes as a meatball. It looked down, and on the corner- Reyes just went w/ it. I thought Z pitched very well w/ out his best stuff. His fast ball topped out at 90, and he rarely used the splitter. The off speed slider was his most effective pitch, and he once again kept his composure.

What I really don’t understand is Lou’s hesitance to put runners in motion. Granted, last night there were very few runners, but in the one opportunity to do so with Baker at the plate, Dome sat on first and was promptly doubled up. Then, Lou decides to have Z bunt, and Fonte gets picked off second.

Our hitters just might start making more contact if they know they just have to put the ball in play, rather than hit a gapper or homer to produce runs.

Finally, the strike zones of umps this season has my baffled. I can’t believe how much variance there has been game to game. That zone last night reminded me of the zones Maddox and Glavine got w/ the Braves.

Hope the Cubs win a game by Saturday. Glad to hear I’ll get to see Lilly in Milwaukee.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Apr 21, 2010 8:29 AM CDT reply actions  

your answer to the in motion thing

is below — with a wildly variable strike zone, it’s hard to pull that trigger.

Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.

by drewishdrewid on Apr 21, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you can't hit and run.........

………when the umps are inconsistent with balls and strikes?

Not sure I follow that logic.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Apr 21, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm fairly certain there were questions like this every year Lou has been here

It just wasn’t that big a problem when the offense was clicking. Lou does not play small ball, and he doesn’t have his team do the little things like hit and run. He’s not a good manager

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Apr 21, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

My impression

is that the Cubs hit and run quite a bit. Small ball is useful for some teams because of their rosters, but generally small ball is bad decision making. It means scoring fewer runs in exchange for more certain runs. There is a lot that can’t be known from the outside about the jobs managers do, but Lou seems pretty good to me.

by ol Pete on Apr 21, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Is this a Cardinals fan.............

……..denouncing the so-called genius of Whitey Herzog?

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Apr 21, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too:

Finally, the strike zones of umps this season has [me] baffled. I can’t believe how much variance there has been game to game.

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:34 AM CDT reply actions  

It's not just the variance game to game.

It’s the variance WITHIN games. Umpires can’t seem to keep a consistent zone even in the same game.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Any ideas on why this has occurred a lot more this year?

New rules? New umps? Double-secret order so the games move quicker?

by chilango2 on Apr 21, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes

several times you will see the same pitch twice – nearly identical location and the ump calls one a ball and one a strike – then again we have a better angle that the ump

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Todd Tichenor

Has had trouble with the strike zone before.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

Dome’s at bat stands out. That strike 3 pitch was low and outside. It looks to me like the book on Cubs hitters right now is pitch them away. We have a pull happy team, thus the Ks and Dp’s. Fontenot and Dome have shown a willingness to go with the pitch; everyone else look to be up there without a plan… or clue.

Lou’s plan to play Colvin 3 times/ week seems to have fizzled by week 3.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Apr 21, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

Fontenot

looked like he had no plan or clue in the 9th. He took 2 fastballs right down the middle for two quick strikes. Then he fouled off a slider low and struck out swinging at a slider in the dirt. When facing K-Rod, who goes up there looking to swing at his slider? That was just foolish, especially considering he’s lost some zip on his fastball. Fontenot may have been looking to walk, but his approach was terrible.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

I couldn't believe he took those two pitches

He was lucky to get one and should have expected the first pitch to be right down the middle after the previous guy walked.

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pull hitters

arise when a player tries to carry make up for a lousy streak. We did the same thing last year. When Lee and Ramirez are in the zone, both are driving balls to the right field gap. Neither of them is doing that now.

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I liked what Joe Morgan said about this the other night

Morgan said he doesn’t buy the “just be consistent” argument with umpires. “I don’t want an umpire who consistently calls pitches out of the strike zone a strike. I want umpires to call a strike a strike and a ball a ball, the way the strike zone is defined in the rule book. An umpire who consistently makes bad calls is a bad umpire to me.”

by azjazzman on Apr 21, 2010 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec'd

I’m not sure what is freaking me out me out more, the fact that Joe Morgan said something I agree with, or this bird?

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bob Brenly rails against this every so often as well.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it is an excellent point

If an umpire calls a pitch 3 inches off the plate a strike, okay, he missed the call. Don’t compound it by making it the new strike zone and repeatedly calling that pitch a strike. It distorts the way the game is played.

But then, if it weren’t for the “be consistent” theory (and Doggie Stalker won’t like this), Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux would have had to pitch much differently.

by azjazzman on Apr 21, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed, but.........

……….if the strike zone can’t be handled accurately, consistency is a pretty good fall-back position.

"I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day." ~ Frank Sinatra

by tville on Apr 21, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bring back

the SW Airlines Plane view camera! And stoney to constantly complain about the calls every Atlanta Brave starter would get.

I used to enjoy flipping back and forth between TBS and WGN to hear how the two would describe the exact same pitch!

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what else I can say about Grabow that

I haven’t been saying on the board since day one of Spring Training – the guy is a train wreck and his contract right now looks terrible. It is good to see Ramirez acknowledge that a) he is healthy and b) not seeing the ball well at all. I’m not sure batting Dome leadoff makes sense anymore. He’s like 1 for his last 16 with 7 or 8 k’s.

What I expect, as this was the team’s MO last year, is that sometime in the next couple games the offense will get it together, score 7-10 runs in a game and win easily. Cub fans will proclaim the offensive woes solved, but then the Cubs will spend the next 3 games losing close, lose scoring affairs, then another high scoring game…

by BeltwayCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

Trying Looper is better than doing nothing.

And GM’s are not always right. I think Albert Pujos was drafted in the 13th round.

by Rick B on Apr 21, 2010 8:44 AM CDT reply actions  

A couple of disturbing things

are emerging this season.

To win, we have to have our stars play like stars and that isn’t happening right now. The guys who are getting paid the big bucks have to step up and carry the team.

Maybe we need a Bullpen coach in addition to a pitching coach. I feel like maybe Rothschild may not have the necessary time to spend with the BP guys like he does with the starters. Maybe he is better at getting thru to starting pitchers than bullpen pitchers.

anyway, what could it hurt?

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Apr 21, 2010 8:45 AM CDT reply actions  

Sounds a lot like last year.... there's a trend forming.

The trend is: our stars… aren’t really stars.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Apr 21, 2010 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maddux?

I’d love to see Maddux with the team for a week or two and work with the bullpen. Maybe even call some of the pitches from the dug out. It might loosen some of them up and take the pressure off.

Or even trot him out as the set-up man and hope nobody notices.

by iowacityCUB on Apr 21, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

$900,000 well spent on our new hitting coach....

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Apr 21, 2010 8:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Exactly

What has he done or rather what can he realistically do to get these guys out of their slump? If he can’t do it get someone who can. This is ridiculous.

by JFCubFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

ridiculous is looking at this through i a microscope

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

**through a

To eliminate exclusion, we cut out the differences to feel like we belong.

by heine41 on Apr 21, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

I really hate it when people say this but....

It’s been 14games. I don’t think we should go through the steps of rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic just yet. We fired our hitting coach last year, and our offense was still anemic.

I’m not convinced Jaramillo is the second coming, I think the fact that the Rangers’ park is a launching pad has more to do with his hitters doing well than anything else, but firing the hitting coach 14 games into his career here is just silly.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Apr 21, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jamarillo is going nowhere

he has a 3 year deal and is the highest paid coach in MLB.

by azjazzman on Apr 21, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Neither of those facts surprise me with Hendry at the helm

he sure does love giving out 3 year contracts.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Apr 21, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs aren't this bad

but they aren’t a whole lot better either.

WOXY.com - The Future of Rock and Roll

by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 21, 2010 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

Yes, first shutout loss.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Braves got shut out more recently, too

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sadly... the only roster move we can really make

to bring in a bat… is Castro. And that just creates a cluster.

We have no catching prospect who hits… and our OF prospect is already here.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Apr 21, 2010 8:50 AM CDT reply actions  

we have a C who hits

why do we need C prospects who hit?

Soto’s posted an .888 OPS this year. He’s been our 2nd best hitter

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Because we're using a platoon basically.

And Hill will never be known for his bat. With the way our high salaried veteran roster is constructed, there is no room for an addition anywhere else, unless you’re making a big subtraction.

"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)

Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.

by SackMan on Apr 21, 2010 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

the problem isnt a lack of a prospect hitting catcher then

its the lack of a competent manager

there’s no circumstance that hill/soto should be a platoon

there’s also no circumstance Soto should be hitting 8th on this team

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where would you bat him?

7th? 6th? No higher than that…the guy has turned into a singles hitter.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

well...

he has a .460 OBP so if you don’t believe he’s anything more than a singles hitter (which i don’t) than he should hit 2nd

I’d prefer him hitting in the middle of the lineup

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

well...

we’ve all seen enough of Soto to know that the .460 OBP is not going to last. If you’re advocating for him to bat in the middle of the lineup now while we’re struggling, maybe. But not for the long run.

He has two extra-base hits this season. The one thing he’s improved on is drawing walks.

I could see him batting second, sometimes, but he will probably remain in the bottom 1/3 of the lineup.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

it's 28 AB's....

i think he can hit for power, he showed it in ’08 and even last year he had a 9.3% XBH Rate. not bad at all

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

If he continues his current approach of taking pitches and high OBP it would be good to have him in the two hole … he might also see more fastballs. Is that the obligatory statement you have to make when putting a hitter in the 2 spot?

by KyCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

why would you want to see him in the middle of the order?

I mean, maybe he shouldn’t be batting eighth but he certainly has provided very little pop

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Apr 21, 2010 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

because he's shown pop in the past

and he’s projected to have better Slugging %’s than everyone on the team not named Ramirez/Lee

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Slight quibble with the caption above:

If Zambrano had merely executed his sac bunt instead of bunting through a strike leading to the pickoff, he would have had a great chance at helping plate a run. But I bet he doesn’t waste time practicing that sort of stuff when he can muscle up in the cage.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Apr 21, 2010 8:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Yes but the pickoff didn't matter much

Z was hit into what would have been a double play anyways…

by ak123 on Apr 21, 2010 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zambrano is too good for bunts

He’s a home-run hitter, dontchaknow?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

We have a few guys who can bunt

Big Z has never proven to be one of them

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

And I agree

the manager should know this as well.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Apr 21, 2010 8:54 AM CDT reply actions  

Bottom line

if we get men on base, I would just like to see us attempt to hit and run on occasion.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Apr 21, 2010 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

I mentioned this in another discussion but ask again

This team is not very different from the 2008 team in terms of offense. So why is it they can’t score as many runs?

And on that note, even in 2009 the Cubs were hitting better when Soriano played in the leadoff spot. I’m not advocating this at all but why was the team better when he played at the #1?

by ak123 on Apr 21, 2010 8:56 AM CDT reply actions  

everyone is 2 years older

no one is in their prime

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

+1

This is why I’m leaning more and more toward letting Lee, Lilly, ARam, etc walk after this year, or come mid-season. This team’s window is almost shut (I try to remain optimistic, but jeez). I think we’re better off reloading with younger talent, whether by signing free agents in the coming years or (and preferably) by realizing some of our homegrown talent. I just don’t want to see us stuck with Lee at age 37 or ARam as his skills fade ala Sori. We need to get younger, and it’s looking like the sooner the better.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

A-Ram

has a player option after this season, in this market there’s a good chance he picks it up. If this team really falls apart, Lee and Lilly are certainly guys you could trade to a contender mid-season. I think the Cubs should be looking to deal Gorz and Theriot soon.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed on A-Ram.

I can’t see him opting out in these economic conditions, when he has a sure thing for two more years.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

But he could be a trade option at the deadline this year, no?

BTW, I’m not saying I want this to happen, just thinking here.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

A-ram has "no trade" rights

as do Lee and Soriano.

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by Gibbon Jockey on Apr 21, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

And they'd likely

waive them to go to a contender mid-season. No trade rights mean little when winning a championship is at hand.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

then again, he could just retire

maybe his shoulder is hurting more than he lets on. I’m guessing he’s more than set for life, financially speaking. Plus, he does not like to fly at all, so leaving the constant travel grind behind wouldn’t bother him a bit.

Now I don’t think he will, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

And, hey, there's the cockfighting thing.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's kind of ridiculous

you think he wouldn’t get more than a 2 year deal?

basically for Ramirez the option should be exercised as long as he thinks he can get more than a 2 year deal covering the total cost of what he’s owed

it’s unlikely he’ll be perceived as worth more on an AAV two years from now then now, so he should cash in and get as many years as he can now

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Adrian Beltre...

got a one year deal as the top third baseman on the market this past offseason. And maybe Rami could get more than a 2 year deal, but the question is for how much $$$. Say he has a terrible year (which I don’t really think he will, but could) you really think he’ll command a 3 year deal at over $12M per season? There is no guarantee he will.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Chone Figgins did get a 4-year deal though...

But the only team willing to pay him as much as they did was Seattle. Also, he has a completely different skill set than Rami.

"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella

by tripdenten on Apr 21, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

beltre

has been about 60% the player aramis has been the last few years and that’s factoring in defense, so i don’t think he’s the best comparison

Of course there’s no guarantee he won’t get 4 years, but I’d be surprised if someone didn’t come a calling. The Angels were interested before and Brandon Wood doesn’t seem to be filling that role. I could see the White Sox getting interested with some of their financial flexibility improving next year.

I think there will be suitors

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so

I also think he’s been a prime beneficiary of excellent first base play.

by ol Pete on Apr 21, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

generally, that might be true ...

but Lee was better in 2009 than he was in 2008.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Including Lou

I would have loved him to get tossed after the strike 3 call to Dome. Anything to light a fire, but he seems sleepy and muttery again this season.

"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue." - George F. Will

by Slakkr on Apr 21, 2010 8:59 AM CDT reply actions  

Not quite what Jessica had in mind, but close

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:03 AM CDT reply actions  

Not sure what that one has to do with me

Is Lou in Kool Aid

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think you asked for a ledge made of Kool-Aid

I do what I can, though.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

A ledge made of Kool-Aid?

Soooo…like a tidal wave?

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

That was my thought

But that’s a lot tougher to create than my meager skills allow.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Apr 21, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

...


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Apr 21, 2010 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously the one on the left is a strict grader.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Russian judge

"Look, what do you want me to do?"

by Zeke on Apr 21, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's also this one.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of these days we'll learn


"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
@Twitter as @brommmietze

by eths on Apr 21, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

Late bloomer, huh?

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

LOL

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Apr 21, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Um Al in order for something to disappear or vanish

it has to have existed in the first place and I don’t think the Cubs offense does.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 9:06 AM CDT reply actions  

I love how all the Sori haters disappear when he's doing well.

Granted the power isn’t there like it should be, but he’s doing a good job getting on base.

I’m really starting to Lou is going to step down before the end of the year and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. Not that I hate lou by the way.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:14 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

If Lou is gone

I think, Lee, Ramirez and Theriot are gone as well…possibly even Dempster and/or Lilly

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

This

isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I like these guys, but I’d like fielding a winning ballclub more.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely Theriot.

I think the Cubs eventually resign Lilly, depending on how he comes back of course. I don’t think there is any way Dempster is gone. His contract is worth it when he’s pitching at the level he’s at now.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

true

but also a good time to trade him if you have a couple pitching prospects coming up that you can throw in here…sell high?

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

The Cubs aren't that kind of organization.

They don’t need to do firesales with the funds they have. Dempster is a good/great starting pitcher and there’s no reason to dump a guy like that for the sake of getting prospects. Of course no one on this 25 man roster is off the table, but to get Dempster a team would have to offer something too good to refuse.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

true

but I wouldnt put it past Ricketts to push Hendry to clear house so they can build the House that Tom Built…

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think if he goes to a team

that is contending he might not have a prob

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

possibly ...

but one of my pet-peeves is assuming things like this.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

its fair to assume

everyone on our team has a no-trade clause

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Like I said, I love Demp and I’ll miss our core group. But selling high would be a nice change, wouldn’t it?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

trade

Demp, Aram and a prospect for as good of a 1b prospect we can get

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I’m not one for making theoretical trades. I just see us as an old team that needs to get younger and find some real talent that is in its mid-20s or so at several positions. I hate the idea of throwing seasons away at “rebuilding”, but meanwhile we hobble along as a mediocre club, never the worst, never the best. Who knows, maybe we’d be surprised at what a younger bunch of kids, prospects and signing, could do. Look at the Rays and Marlins of the past, etc.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

true

I was basing the return on our prospects – this would give us prospects at all 4 infield positions

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

That'd be nice

wouldn’t it?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

ohhhh yeah

being old and expensive hasnt worked for the Cubs

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Blowing up the team

IMHO, these threads that theorize blowing up the team to get younger, faster, etc., can pretty quickly get more delusional than the threads that want to believe in the current team. Blowing up the team might have some cathartic value, but the shards that are left might not be pretty to watch for years to come.

A wealthy organization like the Cubs should be able to keep a core of veterans in place while they rebuild, and that should be the preferred approach. The thing to avoid is excessive sentimentality when a player’s skills are on the decline.

"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk

by vonde6 on Apr 21, 2010 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree.

"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Apr 21, 2010 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree...

"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese

by Endrick on Apr 21, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Precisely.

Turn this green.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

But that's

pretty much what I was espousing previously. I’m not saying we need to get rid of everyone. To the contrary, I see us getting old and several positions, that’s all. And it seems that we need to consider how to fil those spots in the near future with younger talent, whether from the system or through free agency (ie getting a proven vet, albeit hopefully 30 or younger). I’m making no “visionary” claims or oversimplifying anything, I hope. Just stating the obvious: we can still be competitive, but we’re aging and need to address it without, as was noted above, being overly sentimental towards players we admire (Lee, ARam, etc).

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wasn't necessarily referring to you...

…but precious few free agents are 30 or younger. And I’m sure the Cubs are considering how to fill those spots.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Understood

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

people mix the concept with the practicality

the concept is right, the practicality is wrong

We need to get younger, we need to aim for a window in 2012 and beyond when the team has more financial flexibility and hopefully some great young pieces to build around (Castro, Cashner, Jackson (2), Vitters, etc)

But that doesn’t mean hosting a fire-sale for a couple reasons: 1) as stated above its not necessary, nor realistc 2) we’re not going to be able to trade anyone because they all have no-trade clauses 3) the comp we’d get in a trade is probably only equivalent to what we’d get in compensation picks if we offered arb

In reality, the Cubs should be looking to the future and tactically looking at positions where elite players will be hitting FA in groups (like 1B after 2011) and reserve funds to target a player from those groups. They should be stock-piling resources to advantageously take advantage of younger players that are getting expensive for cost-cutting teams, and they should be keeping a few pieces in place to bridge the gap to the next generation (on short-term higher AAV contracts)

this is the appropriate way to rebuild

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

well put

totally agree

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sounds like you're saying get rid of Dempster for the sake of change?

Which is silly, if you ask me. Getting rid of a guy we know is solid for prospects that may never pan out. Don’t take for granted how hard it is to get good starting pitching.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

but at the same token

if we can’t clear out some salary we arent going to get anything useful out of a solid Dempster then we need to release him – my premise is that with this team if we cant win this year its not like this team has much room to get better

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

look at the context of what I have been saying

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

So you're saying release Dempster to clear salary space?

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

no

my previous comment was trading him – I simply used the wrong word…

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

Okay, that makes some more sense.

Releasing him would save us, what, $400k/year? Which is why I was confused.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

No

We’d need to get something in return. Trade, sure. Release, yikes.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

But getting rid of Dempster does not make this team better.

Not this year certainly, but not next year either. He’s a guy you can build a starting rotation around and considering his contract isn’t terrible, he stays.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

stays for what reason?

So we can have an ace on a crappy team and by the time this team is good we have nothing from him? With Maddux as a Special Assistant he can be our prospect rotation’s mentor.

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Get rid of him

Or keep him. Either way, he’s not getting any younger. How many more seasons does he have in him? This is his age 33 season. I can see him being solid for another 2-3 years. So what do we do? Keep him and let him be the best pitcher on a stuggling ballclub? Or maybe trade him while we can get something for him and work with a younger crew that may or may not pan out but at least gives us a future to consider?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

Am I missing something here?

He has a 3.29 ERA in 67 starts with the Cubs. Why do we need to get rid him again? I understand clearing payroll, but who do you expect to fill our rotation if we get rid of players like Dempster?

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

We don't need

to do anything, which has been part of our problem. I’m simply looking ahead at the forseeable future and thinking if we don’t begin to really focus on the future we’re sunk. So Demp has been great for us. Indeed, he has, and I love him for it. But that would make him a prime candidate to trade for quality prospects, no? In this way we can actually be a PROACTIVE club that makes moves that better its future odds of contending instead of a golem that hordes its treasures until they destroy us.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Keeping a veteran or two around to mentor the young guys makes sense

If we’re trading away one of our older starters, I’d prefer for that to be Zambrano.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

what about

Ol’ Doc Maddux?

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Me, too

Circa 2008. What could we reasonably expect from a Z trade now?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

trade Marmol

and move Z to closer

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

That would basically guarantee that we're on the hook for the rest of his big contract

I don’t think any other team is going to trade for a relief pitcher making $18m/year, even if he finds a way to channel his inner Mariano Rivera.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hard to say because of that contract

At this point I’m rooting for him to have a strong first half and for a rich contender to need some starting pitching come deadline time.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm on board with that sentiment

As long as we’re clearly sellers. Like I’ve mentioned, I’m still trying hard to remain optimistic here.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

This team still has time to make the year interesting

But I certainly don’t see anything so far to convince me that this year could be the year we break the streak. And if that isn’t the case, I’d rather we didn’t mortgage our future once again by trading away prospects and future financial flexibility for one more band aid.

Back to the original topic though, I am fine with a Braden Looper signing if it means we don’t trade away a top-5 prospect for a bullpen band-aid.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Clearly,

I agree. Double +.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

This is what I'm saying.

People take for granted how good the Cubs starting rotation has been the last couple years. This isn’t an easy thing to do and you don’t break that up to take a risk prospects that may never pan out.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

And what I'm saying

is that we’ve had a great rotation and yet have nothing to show for it. We will continue to have nothing to show for it, too.

A great rotation is very difficult to come by, for sure. But I’d rather have a good all-around club rather than a great rotation, weak pen, and inconsistent (or no, as the case may be) hitting.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

correct

management has done an outstanding job building a rotation – that is one thing you cant badmouth Hendry about but if we can get someone who might be as successful who is several years younger I say take the chance…odds are we arent going to get anything out of Dempster’s good performance over the next two years…now watch, Demp gets traded and is an effective pitcher until he is 40

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess that's where we differ.

I don’t think it’s worth risking on some prospects bc I’m not sold on the idea that this team is done being a contender. The Cubs have a lot of $$$ and can turn things around quickly.

Let’s say for instance the Cubs get AGon, wouldn’t you want a guy like Dempster still in your rotation then?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sure

I’m not really disagreeing with you. It’s just that I’ve seen this Cubbie approach for years. We’re always an older team with a questionable farm system (ie lack of prospects) and hoping for or counting on a signing like you suggest to be the key that opens up our chances at a great year. The truth is that rarely works. What does work, year in/year out, is a great farm system and a few vets. If Demp could be one of those vets, then great. I’d love to have him. If not, and his talent could be used to really build our system, then that’d be great, too.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Having heard the rest of your argument, I agree with you

I’d rather we suffered through a season or two of painful transformation if it turned our team into something where we could reasonably expect our roster to get better as the years go on rather than getting worse as age takes its toll. The band aid approach of FAs to keep things interesting has severely limited our ability to grow our farm system and give younger guys chances to grow to be the cost-controlled producers every team needs (yes, even the Yankees).

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yes

And who’s to say that the transition years would be painful? We may be pleasantly surprised by the play of the younger guys. Eg see the Rays and other, younger clubs that’ve had success recently.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well

This season seems somewhat destined to be one of those painful years, given that bringing up the young guys now probably only serves to start their service clocks too soon.

As un-fun as it would be, I’d like to see the team make only low-risk moves (like trying to find a gem in the castoff heap – Looper – or trading away guys that are likely not in our future plans) unless the guys we currently have prove that they’re capable of pulling themselves out of this hole and somewhere near contention.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still here

And he’s still bad at baseball

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's a fair point.

I just think that everytime Soriano does something bad everyone is quick to jump on him. But he can do well for two weeks and no one gives him credit for that.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

There have been fewer complaints

Except for “shoulda been a triple” of course. In the minds of many, he is beyond any sort of redemption, however. He can play perfect ball for the rest of the season, and the moment he loses a ball in the late-September afternoon sun, the grousing will begin again. Expecting anyone to give him credit for anything worse than batting .400 and stealing 40 bases is probably way too optimistic.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I just want him to be able to catch a fly ball

that hits him right in the middle of his glove

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

He's been doing that with shocking regularity

For the past 3 or 4 games. He’s even (sort of) given up the hop – didn’t do it once last night, but he relapsed a couple of times on Monday.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it's unacceptable that he's not given a night off

But that’s because it means that Colvin’s just rotting on the bench. We could have had a win/win a week ago, when Sori’s brain and glove were in different ZIP codes – Lou could have started Colvin and punished Sori at the same time. But no – had to trot him out there again the next day, all the better to get back on the horse again, I guess.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rec'd.

And like I always say, he brings a lot of it on himself. Mostly because of his contract, but also things like not hustling out of the box, the “you can’t see me” thing, etc…

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Apr 21, 2010 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

that's utter nonsense

if Soriano plays well the rest of the season, then plenty of people will give him credit. The reason people don’t give him credit when he has six good games, is because we expect him to absolutely implode at some point. And even when he’s hitting well, he finds a way to screw up in other aspects. Baserunning, defense, and yes, watching a double he should be legging out, whether he was able to reach third or not.

I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers

by Nunyabidness on Apr 21, 2010 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

What is your definition of "doing well"?

For what we are paying Soriano, that means more than hitting a few singles every night.

With big money comes big expectations!

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Apr 21, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's been hitting doubles, actually.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

actually he's been hitting triples

and turning them into 2b’s

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by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know about you guys ...

but I could sure go for another Soriano debate!

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

but hes not bad at baseball – just not as good as his contract

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree

I’m not sure how many other teams who think they can contend, would have him in their outfield. I truly want him to succeed, and applaud him when he does, but he’s getting worse.

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

he could still (regardless of contract) could start on a few MLB teams…not bad

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well then

I don’t hate No. 12 as a person but there is absolutely no question I hate how he plays the game. In fact, if there was a blueprint for a guy that plays the game the wrong way, other than perhaps Fred McGriff, it is No. 12.

I said yesterday that he hits a few balls hard per week. Last night’s tally…a routine groundout, an absolute terrible AB where he jammed hismelf on a 3-1 pitch and a hanging curveball that he hit hard into the corner. Ho-hum.

If you think he doesn’t deserve even more criticism than he’s getting, perhaps you belong in the Cubs clubhouse. Otheriwse, there isn’t one team in baseball that would want him and the complete disregard for playing hard that he brings to the table. According to him and others, he “works hard”….but that somehow disappears when it’s time to play.

Unless of course its just a case of “hard to break bad habits” as Piniella has asininely suggested.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Apr 21, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Who is this No. 12 you speak of?

What is his name?

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

No. 12

I don’t refer to him by name. His play speaks for itself.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then I don't know who you're talking about,

Because the player’s name is something that is, or should be, a help to finding out who the player is.

I don’t know people based upon numbers. Run No. 12 by me, and I think “Aaron Rodgers.”

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

She has a weaker beard

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

::by cracky::

Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...

by EalyEagle on Apr 21, 2010 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm still here as well...

…and I hereby appoint Mapmaker as my official “Why Soriano Aggravates The Hell Out Of Me” spokesperson.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope still here...

Yes he is hitting better… for now…
Yes he seems to be getting the clue in the field… for now…

give it a week or two and we’ll have Soriano back to old form… screwing up in the field and swinging at shadows as they cross in the left hand batters box…

His main problem seems to be he never really LEARNS from his mistakes…

"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese

by Endrick on Apr 21, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

Perhaps you can enlighten me

Is it his stellar fielding abilities that validates him. Or maybe his speed from home to 2nd rather than 3rd? How about his willingness to save himself from injury by pulling up on anything near a wall? And his grooved swing at anything down and away always brings a smile to my face. I’d suggest we all go and vote for him as starting OF in the upcoming All Star game.

Beware his .353 BAbip.

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

K count for Ramirez through 14 games and 55 appearances

19…

I know some people think it’s physical, and someone, I can’t remember who, pointed out that he just looks lost at the plate, and I’ve suspected that something mental is going on here. He can take all the batting practice he wants, but it looks like he needs to get his head straight.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't think it's physical

The few pitches he’s made contact with have been hit hard. He’s been pressing for at least the last week, though. As a manager, you’ve got to be able to see that and figure out what to do. While true that you don’t break out of slump on the bench, a day or two off is moving from “Maybe” to “OMFG DO IT!”

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

And they've got players to back him up

So yeah, sit him for a bit. Give him a shiny quarter or a teddy bear or a Nintendo or something to make him happy.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Al, if the Cubs continue this slide, and are way out of it by mid-season

Would Hendry ever fire Lou? And if not, after last year, what would it take?

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:30 AM CDT reply actions  

I think

he wouldnt fire Lou because (if I am correct) he is in the last year of his contract so if the season is lost anyway and you arent sure if you want to bring up Ryno mid-season then Hendry hangs on to him

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just wonder if this really goes bad and ticket sales drop what the Ricketts will advocate

If it’s nothing but empty seats and boos in a couple months I doubt they’d do nothing.

by Mapmaker on Apr 21, 2010 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

which is why I see

a firesale coming and prospects being the core of this team and Hendry finds a way to get rid of Soriano…

I saw you in that coffee shop, breaking the fifth commandment. Congress passes these things for a reason, Lois.
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119

by hansman1982 on Apr 21, 2010 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

I've been wanting Lou to get fired for awhile now

as I don’t think he’s all that effective of a manager anymore. He doesn’t have the same fire and creativity he displayed in the 2007 and 2008 seasons, and I think he’s spent. The team needs a manager who is going to light a fire under their collective asses, and who will be an active part of the game, not someone who maws on sunflower seeds for 3 hours as he ignores issues with his players.

Will they fire him though? Probably not. I think because it’s Lou, there’s this sense that you’re commiting a crime by firing this legendary manager.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I expect they'll just let his contract run out

If the season continues in the direction it has gone thus far, 2011 will feature a new coaching staff, probably a new GM, and I’m guessing a number of different players, hopefully some of them our exciting young prospects.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

We can only hope

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Apr 21, 2010 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

you know what bums me out about that?

The three veterans who probably wouldn’t be back (Lee, Lilly and maybe Aramis) are three I would be in favor of keeping (assuming Aramis bounces back) to play with Castro, Colvin, Cashner, etc.

Instead, we could have Fukudome/Soriano/Byrd as the veterans around a bunch of rookies! That’s really not good — even if the pitching situation is better.

We won’t have serious payroll flexibility until after 2011, when Kosuke and Silva come off the books.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

What’s the over/under on trading Fukudome, too?

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

If we're in rebuilding mode ...

we should try to trade him. I know Kosuke’s relative value is always a hot topic around here. But he’s in his 30s, he’s expensive AND he is only half of a platoon. I know he brings some value to the table with defense and OBP. But he’s someone whom the Cubs might actually be able to trade, as opposed to Soriano.

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Personally, I expect that we'd find a way to re-sign one of Lee and Aramis

Lee in particular strikes me as a guy that won’t be out to squeeze every last dollar out of a team, especially as he hits his declining years. If we could sign either one to a reasonable contract (basically, one that is based off of expected future production rather than past accomplishments) that isn’t too long, I’m in favor of it.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be against that either

I’m just concerned that we hang on to too many of our aging vets at the expense of a brighter future.

"We are not equations with hats." -Dean Young

by Kegler on Apr 21, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Vitters looks like the only guy who a team with a potential $150m payroll should have starting at an infield corner

Barring some unexpected development from a prospect. We’re obviously set up well at most other positions, but I think if the team is going to need a veteran or FA to fill at least whichever position Vitters isn’t playing. Given the relatively low cost for offensive production at 1B (compared to other positions), I am okay with this.

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'd prefer to target a 2011 FA

Pujols
Adrian Gonzalez
Prince Fielder

and i think there’s one other guy i’m forgetting…. all 1B FA’s after 2011

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

We'll scatter 'em around the diamond like jacks!

I’m gonna love seeing Fielder in LF.

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

going to see sandberg today, tomorrow, and friday in memphis

he talked around the question of replacing lou on ESPN memphis yesterday w/ gary parish, but you could tell that he thought he was ready for the job…he said ANY MLB job, but you know he’s waiting for one in particular to open up

by 12to23to17 on Apr 21, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

This has been my beef for the last two years

I wanted Girardi in the first place, not that I didn’t think Lou was a good manager. However he has reached the point that he must be replaced. Lou appears to have no juice and the team is listless.The whole approach of this team looks dead. Sure bad bullpen and hitting .197 will help that. But even in there wins this team looks like it is having as much fun as going to the dentist.
 But were stuck with this bunch. The players we would like to be moved “Z”, Soriano and Dome, the contracts are brutal. And the contracts that run out next year Lilly, Lee are two of the most productive Cubs, and could be shown the door.
 Ledge jumping, call it like you want, this team has some serious issues that will be tough to correct.
 Funny thing is I liked this team out of spring training. Now, this team can’t beat the Mets or the Astro’s, that is freaking ugly.

by Grockcubs on Apr 21, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

On the triple to Reyes:

It wasn’t really that bad a pitch, off the corner. The problem is that Reyes crowds the plate and throwing it there puts it right in his wheelhouse. Zambrano recognized this one batter too late when he threw the brushback to Castillo on the next pitch. I’ll bet Z doesn’t make the same mistake again to Reyes.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Apr 21, 2010 9:49 AM CDT reply actions  

Regarding the S/B calls last night

so I’m not crazy for thinking that a lot of pitches that were too high or too inside were called strikes, and other pitches in the strike zone were called balls? That’s what it felt like. Game 1 felt like that too.

www.facebook.com/craighudak

by Craig in South Bend on Apr 21, 2010 9:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Chad Tracy is NOT the answer to their offensive woes

It’s time for one of these coaches to kick some life into these guys and bring in a “slumpbuster”

"Any player who gets the opportunity to play at Wrigley should welcome it"

by Itchy on Apr 21, 2010 9:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed

Ramirez might be due for a rest, but Chad Tracy isn’t the answer. Chad Tracy isn’t seeing much playing time because he isn’t very good. I get the feeling that Lou feels the same way.

Truth is the best player on the team isn’t hitting and the offense is struggling as a result. It’s not a coincidence.

by Northside Matt on Apr 21, 2010 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

But how do you know he isn't very good...

…when he hasn’t gotten more than 10 PAs yet?

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Correct

Ramy needs a day off or two. Goodness we are looking at a 4 game sweep by the Mets. Cubs will not touch Santana.

by Grockcubs on Apr 21, 2010 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's why they've got to win tonight.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Every time I read something like....
Cubs will not touch Santana.

… or something similar, a struggling team going against an ace, they wind up pounding the crap out of him.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

not every time Al....

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2010 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

OK, not EVERY time.

But enough times. It’d be nice if one of those times happened tomorrow.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't hold your breath

The key to the Mets is to get to the bullpen

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

There bullpen

has been good, they can’t hit a lick.

by Grockcubs on Apr 21, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Johan had some rough outings with the Mets last season.

And the Nats got to him a couple starts ago. But I’d still rather get the win tonight to prevent a sweep.

Follow me on Twitter here and catch my twice-weekly Cubs news updates here.

by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's called confirmation bias

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

A few reasons

First, he was on a minor league contract and was a week away from getting beat out by Kevin Millar, who is out of baseball.

Second, I’ve seen some of his ABs during spring training and the season, and I haven’t been impressed. Maybe he’s not good off the bench? Or he just might not be that good, period.

by Northside Matt on Apr 21, 2010 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess we'll find out the truth when and if Lou ever plays him.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Options?

There is a perfectly legitimate option to jumpstarting this offense currently hitting .380 in AA with an OPS of 1.016 and just happens to play a premium position which would help improve the middle infield defense.

Nevermind, he’s “not ready”…..

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

I'll defer to j_c on this one

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2010/4/20/1432247/overflow-thread-2-cubs-vs-mets#35312263

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pirate logic

For a large market team to worry about the arbitration clock, you may as well come out and admit you’re not playing to win.

Tampa Bay worries about the arbitration clock, Milwaukee worries about the arbitration clock….you know who doesn’t? Boston, New York, the Mets and every other large market team with a sack that actually wants to win.

The Cubs can choose which they fall under but by keeping a guy in AA that should have broken with the club as its starting SS speaks volumes.

"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder

by krummy12 on Apr 21, 2010 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

And to be fair

The Rays did have a decade of top five picks to work with. Pretty easy to build a great farm system when you are getting can’t miss prospects every year.

by williamzabka42 on Apr 21, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

a lot of their high-end prospects

were mid rd picks….

its a mix of both. they have had great opportunities to get high ceiling players, they also haven’t missed very often and when they have (Delmon Young) they’ve traded them before anyone else realized it

they have a tremendous scouting and development group

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tell it like it is

I live near the Card’s spring training home and a lot of neighbors are Cardinal fans. I use to hate the birds but I have come to admire the fact that with a smaller market they just keep winning and returning to the playoffs. AND the Marlins well 2 world series in
20 years….. Hendry Sucks… Bradley ? Sori owed 90 mil for 5 years.

by nimblenikelfoos on Apr 21, 2010 10:03 AM CDT reply actions  

The Cards

attendance is greater than the Cubs.

by tharr on Apr 21, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

What are the odds..

of a Johan no hitter tonight?

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:04 AM CDT reply actions  

0%?

He’s not pitching….

by IllinoisCubs on Apr 21, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zero.

Because he’s pitching tomorrow.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Ha, figures

I suppose if I’m not (likely) going to see the Cubs win at the game tomorrow, at least I’ll get to see Johan in person!

by madcow256 on Apr 21, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Zero, he's pitching tomorrow.

I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.

"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-

by Vermont Cubs Fan on Apr 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

i'll take that bet...

i think santana is tomorrow night….

perez tonight, i think

by 12to23to17 on Apr 21, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

haha..

wow..at least I should know the rotation..

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on Apr 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

yeah...too bad DeRo wasn't left handed...

it’d be nothing but rainbows and unicorns here at BCB had we kept that ’08 team together…

i say this tongue in cheek, but that ridiculous LRLRLRLR dilemma of lou may have doomed our chances of ever getting back to the chemistry that team had

by 12to23to17 on Apr 21, 2010 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

how 'bout this tho?

what are the odds lily returns saturday?

by 12to23to17 on Apr 21, 2010 10:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, they're looking pretty good.

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by daver on Apr 21, 2010 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lou said he was leaning towards Saturday start for Lilly

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on Apr 21, 2010 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

good...we need a spark

i’m sure the cubs could care less about this forum, but what about the chicago papers and talk radio in town…surely they hear that stuff…not that they necessarily care about those talking heads either, but the negativity around this team right now is disheartening and maybe lily gives us a shot in the arm

by 12to23to17 on Apr 21, 2010 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Where's TJ?

I’d like to thank him for the humor yesterday. Kinda doubt it will help me feel better today though. Hope he doesn’t have too big of a hangover from whatever he was on.

"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Apr 21, 2010 10:51 AM CDT reply actions  

Here you go

Atlanta Humane Society Puppy Cam

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Aw :)

"Chicago Cubs baseball is on the air."-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Apr 21, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I know I have sounded like a ledge jumper

in the game threads the last few games, but it’s just so damned frustrating…

If and only if this season goes in the crapper I think there needs to be a shake-up
but you don’t trade the 4 best guys you have here…

Dempster, Lilly, ARAM and Lee stay…

Start with Jim Hendry… help him pack his office and say bye bye…

Then you eval what you have…

"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese

by Endrick on Apr 21, 2010 11:13 AM CDT reply actions  

Love Demp, Lilly, Aram, and Lee

But the problem is if you are going to rebuild, which certainly the Cubs need to do no matter how this season plays out, you need to trade players that other teams WANT. Nobody wants Dome or Sori with their declining numbers and albatross contracts. Nobody wants Fontenot or Theriot because frankly they arent any good.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

u are certainly right as far as limited tradeable assets

Derek Lee and Fontenot probably most marketable this year based on contracts and potential buyer needs, Sean Marshall certainly would be of major interest to a number of clubs given he makes like 1/30000 of Soriano’s salary. That’s about it really IMO.

by BeltwayCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only way

we are getting rid of Sori is outright release or we get a GM who can
work some voodoo to trade him…

Dome… I still think he can be useful, but his window is closing… fast…

with Demp and Lilly you don’t move cause they ARE you best pitchers…
no matter how bad the hitters are you still need pitching and those two
are the Cubs best guys…

Lee I can see moving only cause he does have value…

Rami is one you wanna keep cause when he is on he can and has
carried this team…

Blowing the team up is insane…

If you blow this team up you get Pittsburg not a contender

"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese

by Endrick on Apr 21, 2010 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

We may be in violent agreement

Somehow though this team, mostly because of advancing age of their “stars” needs to be retooled. I think the pressure to sign Soriano came from the Tribune. They saw some fall off in attendance and decided to get another Sammy Sosa to put fannies in the seats. I don’t advocate blowing up the team but getting some solid prospects for a few of the aging veterans seems like a good long term strategy for the Cubs. They are a major market team with a very large payroll. It may mean the Cubs suck for a couple of years but I’m all about building a long term winner with young talented players.

"All of us are in the gutter...some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

by Tingham on Apr 21, 2010 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

14 games is roughly 8.6% of the season...

and we’re on pace to win 61 games….and we haven’t even played the good teams yet. GO CUBS!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 21, 2010 11:29 AM CDT reply actions  

It's all Shark's fault -- and Lou's -- for eating up all of our leads....

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Apr 21, 2010 11:36 AM CDT reply actions  

Wow this is worse than I thought

Cubs have not scored an earned run in 25 innings per the Sun Times.

Forget the bullpen woes, this is the problem.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 1:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Kind of like what the headline on this post says.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I knew it was bad , just not THAT bad

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 21, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Exactamundo.

Follow me on Twitter here and catch my twice-weekly Cubs news updates here.

by daver on Apr 21, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like Moreland's commentary too

Complements Pat’s PBP very well I think. Wonder why WGN didn’t sub him back in Chicago when Santo went sick during the Houston series?

by JFCubFan on Apr 21, 2010 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I enjoyed listening to Moreland also.

Much better than Otto.

Also, has anyone noticed that Pat seems like he’s trying to be a little more optimistic sounding? I can’t think of any specific comments off the top of my head. Just an impression that he was trying to calm everyone down, even without Ronnie there.

"And away we go..."-Pat Hughes

by katie casey on Apr 21, 2010 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zonk

I haven’t heard Moreland yet, so I’ll have to give it a try tonight. I have heard Moreland a few times recently on the air when he came to do the 7th inning stretch and stayed around to talk for an inning or two. Great guy. He was the kind of personality I wish the Cubs had on the team now – hard working but didn’t take himself too seriously, and knew how to have fun on the field and inspire the same in his teammates.

Except for that one year when they asked him to play 3rd base. Which didn’t work out so well.

"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry

by danimal15 on Apr 21, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Addendum

Also, he didn’t have a $50 million contract that the Cubs had to eat when he got old and didn’t play well anymore. (He probably made $1 mln a year at peak, and that seemed like a lot at the time).

I can’t understand why MLB GMs keep hurting themselves with these ridiculous long-term contracts to players like Fukodome, who are just not that talented in the first place. I can kind of see taking a gamble on a guy with superstar potential like Soriano, but when you have people like Carlos Silva signing $25 million deals, it doesn’t make sense to me.

"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry

by danimal15 on Apr 21, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is what could kill the Cubs

Oversized contracts and mediocre production.

If guys like Z, Dome, Sori and Rami get paid like stars, then they better perform like stars!

Otherwise the Cubs will be hamstrung for a couple of years.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Apr 21, 2010 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

From Twittermeyer...
Z to pen. No joke. Lou just announced it.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 3:36 PM CDT reply actions  

And somewhere in Chicago,

Al Yellon is smiling.

Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin

by Schwa on Apr 21, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

See the front page.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on Apr 21, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

ridiculous....

un-f-ing real

follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com

by DartmouthCubsFan on Apr 21, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

And for confirmation, I give you...
PWSullivan: Zambrano to bullpen starting Friday. “Because of his stuff” Lou sez. Z is cool with move.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Apr 21, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

it's kinda funny that Z's fate was possibly settled ...

by a weak bullpen session by Braden Looper.

Ladies and gentlemen — your 2010 Chicago Cubs!

by elgato on Apr 21, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

makes no sense to me

He’s had several starts – has pitched terribly in a couple, decent in a couple others. Still plenty of chance for him to improve and contribute as a starter. And now Lou is going to put him in middle relief (or as an 8th inning guy?)

The problem seems to me to be the offense. Z isn’t pitching at the level he once did. But he is not the problem.

"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry

by danimal15 on Apr 21, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Front-pager here

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2010/4/21/1435385/cubs-send-zambrano-to-bullpen

"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root

by Clutch16 on Apr 21, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

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Marvin_the_martian_small Shawn Domagal-Goldman

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Dsc_0139_small David Sameshima

Toonmike_small Mike Bojanowski