Move Zambrano back to the starting rotation

by IllinoisCubs on May 14, 2010 4:17 PM CDT

It was a nice thought. It worked for a couple of weeks. Tom Gorzelanny has turned back into a pumpkin. He gave up 5 runs to the Pirates, the second worst offensive team in the league. Zambrano is currently getting shelled. The experiment is over. The dream is dead. Time to switch back to normal.

(more after the jump)

Who dares to argue with this? Anyone? It's foolish to keep this going. First there was a small sample size to back this up. Now there is nothing. Rational thought and stats don't back it up.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Deck chairs on the Titanic

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 14, 2010 4:19 PM CDT reply actions

We haven't hit the iceberg yet

by IllinoisCubs on May 14, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions

You sure after Z faced 8 batters and gave up 3 runs in a single inning

This is when you want to post this?

"I cherish this dream I had as a little kid to play baseball,'' Ted Lilly

by Madison Cub Fan on May 14, 2010 4:22 PM CDT reply actions

Yes

I’m sure we should have the pitcher who is one year removed from a no-hitter in the rotation.

I’m sure we should move the pitcher who’s highest ERA is in pitches 1-15 back into the rotation.

The Gorzelanny starter and Zambrano out of the pen setup gave up 8 runs to the Pirates today. The only reason it was implemented was because Gorzelanny had a couple of good starts and they thought Z could help out in the pen. It didn’t work. Throw it out.

by IllinoisCubs on May 14, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions

They both will pitch better if they switch places?

If this is your idea of rational thought … WOW.

I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren

by lookingdeadred on May 14, 2010 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

One year removed from a no-hitter? Big whoop.

That’s an individual game. It doesn’t really lend any credence to your premise.

I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on May 14, 2010 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed.

I love Z, but somethings not right with him this season so far.

"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry

by EJThunder on May 14, 2010 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions

No more references to the no-hitter

First, it was in 2008, going on 2 years now. Second, it was vs. a Houston team that had just lived through Hurricane Ike in their homes. Not exactly the Bronx Bombers. And third, Zambrano pitched poorly in starts before and after the no-no. he got shelled by STL in his next start and he had been shelled by STL the previous time he faced them.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on May 15, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions

i was told on another forum that after another bad gorzelanny start, i would switch the two that gorzelanny was “our best pitcher” right now. this place also has said al doesn’t know much about baseball after al first suggested moving zambrano to the pen.

i don’t care if it was the pirates (who are owning us right now), giving up 5 runs in 5 innings is NOT a good outing. granted z didn’t help his case for getting out of the pen with that 8th inning he had, but gorz right now is clearly the first candidate i would recommend being sent to the pen in exchange for zambrano.

ironically, i think zambrano’s bad inning bought gorzelanny another start. zambrano needs to have much better outings between now and before gorz’s start after his next to get back in the rotation (provided gorz has another bad start in between).

by jcarti01 on May 14, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions

Switching Places

I agree with I-Cubs. I think that both pitchers will pitch better if they switch. Its pretty clear that Big Z really doesn’t have the right mind set to be a relief pitcher. He’s a real good starter. And right now the Cubs are ruining his value and pissing away the season. Z in the bullpen is only part of it. (Its also using guys like Marshall for 2/3rds of an inning instead of an extended period forcing even more use of the Bullpen). Its not too late (yet) to save the season, but we are getting into that general territory.

by frustratedfan on May 14, 2010 4:58 PM CDT reply actions

Gorzelanny hasn't had any measure of success in a bullpen role...

Up until this start he’s done just fine… he’s just been a victim of the no run support.

I don’t know what Zambrano’s deal is but something’s up. Len and Bob even commented on how low his velocity was in the game today.

If I had a choice between the fired up, “immature Z” who had an ERA <4.00 and the Z that we have right now….. bring back the temper, please.

"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry

by EJThunder on May 14, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Let me get this straight....

You want to replace a guy who gave up 5 runs over 5 innings with a guy who gave up 3 runs along with 4 straight, scalded hits in only 1 inning? No thanks.

Here’s a suggestion… let’s make a call to the Pirates and see how much they want for Evan Meek and Hanrahan. That’s what our bullpen should look like.

"It's hard to win 97 games, it's hard to win the division. Our attitude is if you get in every year, you get in most of the time, sooner or later you are going to knock that door down." -- Jim Hendry

by EJThunder on May 14, 2010 4:59 PM CDT reply actions

Maybe Henry can dump Zambrano on Seattle

the only suckers bigger than he is

by holy mackeral on May 14, 2010 5:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

It wont happen cuz it makes tooooooo much sense

"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

by cooliogirl47 on May 14, 2010 5:35 PM CDT reply actions

I agree with this.

More details in my recap.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2010 5:46 PM CDT reply actions

Keep Gorzelanny in the rotation, move Silva to the pen

Any move other than that is beyond foolish.

Brad Miller is god.

by Poloplaya14 on May 14, 2010 6:39 PM CDT reply actions

Silva has been more consistent than Gorzelanny.

So why would you want to do that?

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Because you want someone consistant in the pen?

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on May 15, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

We making excuses for Big Z??

Maybe this has something to do with Z getting shelled? Link

I would sleep with Blou if it meant the Cubs would win a WS. by Doggie Stalker on Aug 22, 2009 4:11 PM EDT

by cubsluver22 on May 14, 2010 7:29 PM CDT reply actions

Possibly the right conclusion, but the wrong logic

I think Z needs to go back to the rotation. But I would deal Gorz, as he is the most tradeable starting pitcher we have.

That said, Gorz has not “turned into a pumpkin”. Look at his game log (note: as of this post, today’s line isn’t up yet). He has had 4 quality starts in 7 starts. Of the 3 starts that were not “quality”… he missed a quality start in one of those by 1/3 of an inning. Another start he left early with an injury. The last was today’s bomb… which was indeed a lousy effort.

So he’s had one “bad” start in 7. How exactly is that “turning into a pumpkin”??

by fsuapollo on May 14, 2010 9:22 PM CDT reply actions

If there's a deal to be made for Gorz...

… that would turn him into a decent setup man, sure, I’d do that.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 14, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

This is really a debate? I don't come to this site often, but I'm so frustrated I checked in.

There’s people here who still think Z should be in the pen??
It was a stupid idea at the time and still is.
I cued my thoughts at the time w/the barfing girl. Don’t make me bring her back!

Look, Zambrano is what he is, an above-average pitcher, but one who is a head-case. He’s emotionally fragile. Should a pro at his stage be like that? Shouldn’t he have matured by now? No to the first, absolutely to the 2nd. But anyone who thought this had a chance in Hell of working didn’t think it through.
He can’t handle this!

Besides, moving to the pen, after the season started, after how many years as a starter? Not many could handle that.

“Hey, Opening Day Starter of the last 5 years, how’z about you become our $15 million
setup man?”

Put him in the rotation. Give him about 5 starts. If he’s still pitching terribly, shut him down. Have him ‘looked at’ and claim ‘tired arm’ or whatever, put him on IR. Has he lost it physically? Maybe. Has he lost it mentally? Probably. But give him one more look in a situation he has a real chance in. Tell him he gets one more shot, and see how it goes. He wasn’t even pitching that badly when they moved him.

unimportant but maybe helpful, my “Realist” tag is for my the Cowboys site, where I post much more, not here. Being a Cubs fan since 1969 (great year to start) there’s no need for ‘realism’ with them!

Pessimists say the cup is half-empty, while optimists say it's half-full. Well, isn't it both? Realist Larry, 2009

by Realist Larry on May 15, 2010 12:35 AM CDT reply actions

I thought putting Z in the pen...

…was crazy at first, but then I sort of got the joke and understood. Now, I agree with those that say move him back to the rotation. This experiment has run its course, and with Z’s somewhat fragile mental state, you won’t get the value from him keeping him in the pen now.

The next 2-3 weeks will go a long way in determining the rest of this season. The Cubs failed to pile up wins during a weak part of their schedule and now they will be playing tougher teams in the coming weeks. This club is either going to have to find itself against tougher competition, or I think it will be the beginning of the end for this core group.

The three most interesting things I will be watching:

If the club is still doing poorly, will Ricketts decide to can Lou?
Will Ricketts instruct Hendry to unload all he can at the deadline to build for the future?
If they are in it at the deadline, how much dough will Ricketts allow Hendry to add?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 15, 2010 9:54 AM CDT reply actions

Answer to the three questions

1) It’s not up to Ricketts UNLESS he orders Hendry to do it. He has stayed out of baseball decisions up to now.

2) Depends on how the team is doing.

3) Good question, partly depends on what the team needs are.

"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra

by Al Yellon on May 15, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

#3

need and who is available.

Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue

by Cubbie-Tim on May 16, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions

I heard

a suggestion that the Cubs sent Z to the pen as a way to strong-arm him into waiving his no-trade clause and accepting a trade. Probably ridiculous, but interesting enough as a theory to mention it.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on May 15, 2010 4:09 PM CDT reply actions