Stop lumping Lee with Ramirez

by Doggie Stalker on May 17, 2010 4:13 PM CDT

I keep seeing over and over end that Lee and Ramirez are single handedly dragging the team down and poor Lou is helpless to stop it. Lee is definitely well below average but he is drawing walks. Lee's BA is 70 points higher than Ramirez and his OBP and slugging percentage 100 points higher then Ramirez. Lee gets on base a little more than one in every 3 at bats, Ramirez slightly less than one in four. This is a huge difference, in fact in many games it can be the difference between winning and losing.. Randy Wells , Ryan Dempter & Xavier Nady all have higher BA, OBP & slugging percentage than A-Ram. A-Ram is making Mario Mendoza of Mendoza line fame look like Pujols. LIke everyone else I really hope he breaks out of it but until he does he must play WAY down in the lineup and get some games OFF. Don't tell me the Cubs can't win without A-Ram being "himself" because right now they are losing by continuing to let him play everyday in a key lineup spot. One can certainly wonder if the Cubs would have won more games if Ramirez had taken a few games off and battted 7th or 8th for the last few weeks.

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Stop overreacting?

I think people realize that Ramirez is god awful terrible while Lee is just plain terrible. If given the choice, everyone would bat Ramirez 8th and Lee 6th or 7th. In terms of benching, Ramirez 2 or 3 times a week, Lee once a week or so.

There is nothing wrong with saying that both Lee and Ramirez are struggling though. You really are going to nitpick over Lee is struggling and Ramirez is REALLY struggling?

by IllinoisCubs on May 17, 2010 4:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

So the massive difference in BA & OBP is nothing?

Ramirez being almost historically bad for any player allowed to bat clean up IS significant as is basically starting him every day.
So basically it all meaningless. Just bat a guy who is hitting .200 at leadoff over one hitting .300 because it won’t make any difference? A spread of .70 to .100 points is HUGE in baseball,BA and OPB and slugging matter a great deal. Ignoring them and just hoping it will go away has undoubtedly contributed to the mess the Cubs are in.

I guess we were wrong and Neifi really was a great lead off hitter. We were just a bunch of silly nitpickers who failed to see the genius of Dusty.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on May 17, 2010 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions

+1

This is a meaningless argument. Both are hurting the team and while Lee seems to have merited being kept hitting 3rd for now, they both have been a big drag on the team. How much different a drag isn’t important as well as difficult to define.

"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."

by Sandberg's evil twin on May 17, 2010 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions

I won't lump together but not b/c one is struggling and one is really struggling

I feel that Lee is working his way out of dismal hole and I dont see ARam doing that right now.

"I cherish this dream I had as a little kid to play baseball,'' Ted Lilly

by Madison Cub Fan on May 17, 2010 4:42 PM CDT reply actions

To me the difference is the walks

Rami always had a great eye, the fact that he is now striking out 3 times as often as he walks is indicative that he is not yet breaking out despite all those supposedly hard luck , hard hit balls. Until he starts seeing the ball better, he won’t swing better.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on May 17, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions

DLee

Has been hitting .295 in May so far. I think we can relax a bit on his hitting. His .OBP for the month is .365. We’re probably not realizing this because he hasn’t hit a HR all month.

Aramis isn’t doing so well. He’s hitting .195 for the month. However he’s only gone 4 games in may without getting a hit. In April he had 11.

by ak123 on May 17, 2010 4:50 PM CDT reply actions

But in a way, Lee's #s have been meaningless.

He’s paid to be a run producer.

In 14 May games, Lee has 5 RBI, 8 R, & 0 HR.

And that includes just 2 RBI & 5 R in his last 12 games.

So, while he has been swinging better in May than in April, he is definitely NOT pulling his weight.

And yes, Jess, ARam is still MORE of a problem. He has produced just 4 RBI & 6 R in 12 May games (he did not play in two games).

by fsuapollo on May 17, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions

We can debate this

How often have men been on base for DLee to get RBI opportunities? With Theriot and Fukudome in front of him (sometimes Byrd) chances are often but I’d like to see the stats on that.

by ak123 on May 17, 2010 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Looks like

Lee is 10-36 (.278) w/14 RBI with RISP according to his situational stats. Not terrible, but certainly lower than you would want out of your #3 hitter.

ARam is 8-40 (.200) w/14 RBI with RISP. Of course, those numbers are far less than you would want out of your #4 hitter.

So as others have said… Lee has been disappointing, while ARam has been bad (until tonight!).

by fsuapollo on May 17, 2010 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Please clarify

Lee’s BA is 70 points higher than Ramirez and his OBP and slugging percentage 100 points higher then Ramirez. Lee gets on base a little more than one in every 3 at bats, Ramirez slightly less than one in four. This is a huge difference, in fact in many games it can be the difference between winning and losing.

Wait! I though Lou was the difference between winning and losing

by dmlichte on May 17, 2010 4:53 PM CDT reply actions

When LOU puts Ramirez at cleanup or near it day in and day out

THAT becomes a significant factor in winning and losing. It is not Lou’s fault A-Ram is hitting way below the Mendoza line, it is Lou’s fault that he is allowed to do it in a key spot in the rotation with almost no days off. Suprisingly other managers tend to rest struggling players and or put them way down in the lineup.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on May 17, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions

yup...

… like Joe Girardi has done with Mark Teixiera in NY. He’s struggled all year and has batted in the #3 hole each and every game that he’s played. That wouldn’t be THE Joe Girardi that many Cub fans are pining for, is it?

by dmlichte on May 17, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions

???

Teixeira was awful in April but he has been on fire in May. OPS over 1000 this month with 20 driven in already.

by kanderber on May 17, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah

I think dmlichte meant the guy with the OPS+ of 112 so far this year. Not so much like Lee or Ramirez at all.

by madcow256 on May 18, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions

the yankees have enough firepower to make that not matter

Watch out Jaws, here comes the UH-60s.
Self-Proclaimed President of the Castro Boobird Face Kicking Club

by jesus christos on May 17, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions

You mean the Yankees

who are just two games out of first and the leader of the wild card?

There is no such thing as an ugly female breast

by Worf on May 18, 2010 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions

WKOBBDYP

Watch out Jaws, here comes the UH-60s.
Self-Proclaimed President of the Castro Boobird Face Kicking Club

by jesus christos on May 17, 2010 5:13 PM CDT reply actions

This is a completely pointless post.

And no, Lee should and will be lumped with Ramirez. They are both underachieving players so far. End of story new paragraph.

I'm part of the Byrd Watchers!

by lexmarklover on May 17, 2010 5:14 PM CDT reply actions

So when asked why the offense is struggling to score runs...

We shouldn’t point to two of the players expected to be major offensive contributors…because they have a different batting average and OBP?

Well, since they have identical RBIs (17), I think we can still lump them together.

by Arbusto on May 17, 2010 5:54 PM CDT reply actions

Maybe A-Ram should listen..

To his Hitting Coach???

SKOL VIKINGS 2010!!

by Mr.Cub22 on May 17, 2010 6:30 PM CDT reply actions

I think this has been debunked

According to Al, it’s 100 percent false.

by Not Bruce Froemming on May 18, 2010 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions

Well Ramirez is the 2nd worst hitter in all of baseball

Ramirez obviously shoulders the most blame but Lee, Theriot and ultimately Lou are killing the team as well.

I am a traveler of both time and space to be where I have been. Robert Plant 1975

by cmpody on May 17, 2010 6:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions

Of things to worry about on the team, whether Lee is being blamed in part

for Rami’s bad hitting would have to be the lowest on my list. Why is this important at all? I want my two minutes back it took to read this post.

"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."

by Sandberg's evil twin on May 17, 2010 6:45 PM CDT reply actions

I guess it's a case of whose crap stinks worse

well…they both stink!

by troutfishin on May 17, 2010 9:14 PM CDT reply actions

Welcome back Aramis

by ak123 on May 17, 2010 10:27 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah, its really easy to discern the difference

between “sucks” and “really sucks”.

Damn! these posts are ridiculous.

They both don’t fucking produce; period! They know it, we know it, even the clown-reporters (is that redundant?) know it. They have to produce pure and simple. On to the next whiny post!

Just win the next game...!

by blackhawk24 on May 18, 2010 9:58 AM CDT reply actions

I agree

Picking up Derreck Lee and physically lumping Aramis Ramirez on the head with him is a drastic and uncalled for move. I do not think this will help Rudy as the hitting coach.

"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas

by RiskyBusiness on May 18, 2010 12:34 PM CDT reply actions

Tracy is tearing it up!!

In minors and can play 1st and 3rd…I see him as an eventual callup to spot Lee and Ramirez, even if they get "untracked.‘’ Last nite Lee looked bad AB I thought, Ramirez was the hero…If could get them to each get multiple hits in a game, we’d be in business.

by QuincyCub on May 18, 2010 2:08 PM CDT reply actions

The timing on this post is pure comedy gold.

I’m pretty sure it broke ARAM’s curse. +1 on your curse-breaking skillz.

by Cubinator on May 18, 2010 3:56 PM CDT reply actions

Hey whatever works

but the cynic in me is not convinced A-Ram is suddenly his old self. Let’s just say I have been let down a LOT this year so I won’t get my hopes up , at least not to far.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim

by Doggie Stalker on May 18, 2010 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions