Lou Says Z Will Close If Marmol Needs A Day Off
Excellent idea. Z should take very well to closing, I'd think.
about 2 years ago
Al Yellon
49 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
I still dont see how anyone can justify removing him from the rotation
This is just beyond ridiculous
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on May 2, 2010 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
ell
oh
ell.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 6:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh Please........
It was one game, and if you actually WATCHED the game, he pitched pretty well. Two of the HRs he gave up JUST made it into the basket, and one was on the outside corner and driven to right by Upton. Upton’s was a great piece of hitting. He was also getting squeezed by the home plate umpire. He still has more quality starts than bad ones this year.
"Two of the HRs he gave up JUST made it into the basket"
Well in April he gave up plenty of fly balls that died on the warning track. It works both ways. And where these comments when Zambrano was giving up bloop hits right and left.
Brad Miller is god.
Soriano's May BA: above .600 and counting....woo hoo! the first player since Ted Williams that will be over .400!
You make some good points on BCB, but I’m not going out on a limb here by saying that’s the most meaningless start and statement I’ve seen on BCB this year. Congrats…forgot the confetti.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions
If people are okay with Zambrano getting moved to the pen based on a miniscule sample size...
I’m gonna be just as obtuse and nag about Silva when he has one bad start.
Brad Miller is god.
well
here’s one piece of difference:
Silva may have the small sample size, but the team is also winning when he starts.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2010 5:53 AM CDT up reply actions
based on one game???
brilliant
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 4, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Green because he's stating a point that you have many times?
This has been debated endlessly since the move was made. I see nothing new here.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Until
Either Silva or Gorzelanny has an ERA (or comparable adjusted stat) above Zambrano’s expected ERA there is no argument that can be made that the Cubs have are losing in performance with their decision. If either of these starters starts pitching horribily consistently, and their ERA goes significantly above what you’d expect from Zambrano, then we can talk. But it’s a moot point, because if that happens, the Cubs will make a move. I can’t see, for example, Silva making 3 horrendous starts in a row and the Cubs doing nothing. At most, the Cubs will have 20 innings of worse performance than expected, if that happens.
All this talk about the Zambrano move has been way overblown.
by Luis on May 3, 2010 3:16 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
I'm definitely
starting to agree with this.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions
This.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Come on
Its utterly ridiculous, so b/c Gorzelanny and Silva havent shit the bed yet, that justifies removing the best starter we’ve had in the past decade into a middle reliever?
How does that make sense? Wouldnt it be better to have kept Z in the rotation and maximized Gorzelanny’s trading potential before he falls on his face?
There is no rational justification for taking a pitcher of Zambrano’s caliber and using him in this role, its a complete mis-allocation of resources. Hes performance didnt warrant it and if your justification is b/c we have two career mediocre pitchers having a good April, then perhaps Jimbo could use an assistant
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Well, by the rules, every team gets to have one.
Even the Pirates.
"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.
Sanchez was their original
Gorz was, correct me if I’m wrong, voted as an all-star, and then got hurt and replaced by Chris Young. It could have been vice-versa, I’m not sure.
AC0000000
Next Year
Gorzellany wasn't actually ever an all-star...
He was a nominee for the “last player in” vote in 2007 thanks to a very good start. Chris Young won the fan vote that year.
Regardless, making an all-star team (or coming close even) doesn’t invalidate the idea that a pitcher is mediocre. I’m sure you can find many mediocre pitchers who made an all-star team.
I’m not saying that Gorzelanny is still a mediocre pitcher. But we are talking about a guy who’s ERA in the last two years was 6.66 and 5.55, and who’s career ERA is 4.71 with a WHIP of 1.464. So it’s not THAT unreasonable a statement.
Gorzelanny was injured in 2008.
He was better last year after the trade. He has had major league success. Why is it such a difficult concept that he might replicate that success?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It's not a difficult concept...
Hence my quote “I’m not saying that Gorzelanny is still a mediocre pitcher.”
I will however quibble with the argument that he was injured in 2008. He made 28 starts between AAA and the majors (21 of them in MLB). He went to the DL only once since 2006, and that was in late-September 2008 with a middle finger injury. He was back pitching in AAA the following March, bouncing in and out of the majors that year. So he didn’t miss any significant time due to injury. He’s results were due to poor performance, not injury.
I’ll also quibble with the statement that he was better last year after the trade. He was actually worse after the trade (5.63 ERA, 1.36 WHIP) than he was before the trade (5.19 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, all out of the bullpen).
I’d say that Gorzelanny is a talented pitcher who has had very inconsistent results. He had a great year with Pittsburgh, and then he had a terrible year with Pittsburgh. Then last year he was just mediocre. There is no reason to assume he can’t replicate his 2007 season. But there was also no reason for him to follow up his 2007 season with his 2008 season, either.
Fair enough.
It’s conceivable that injury might have been bothering him before he went on the DL in 2008.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Get a grip
To say: “There is no rational justification for taking a pitcher of Zambrano’s caliber and using him in this role …” is just BS. Just because you can’t see it does not mean it is not there.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 4, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, you can rationalize your way into anything
Doesnt make it logical, its just a stupid, stupid move. Im sure Zambrano will be a lock down middle reliever for us when we’re staring up at the Cardinals in September, with Gorzelanny and Silva’s ERA hover somewhere around 5…yeah this was a great move
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
There is no evidence this will last till September if the other things you mention happen.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
still can't find a grip I see
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 5, 2010 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Just because you cannot see the logic of it
does not mean there is no logic to it
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 4, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
I can see Z becoming the closer and Marmol the set up
It will take some time, possibly a transition over the next 60 days, Z has the stuff and probably the mindset while Marmol seems better suited for the set up role.
If Silva breaks down I could see Cashner or Jackson emerging in the summer months
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
What?
Based on 0 games closed for Z and how well Marmol is pitching this year (0 blown saves so far)? What makes you say this other than the opinion that Z “has the stuff and the mindset” and Marmol seems “better suited” for a set up role?
Marmol has 1 blown save...
Obviously not going to change the fact that you bring to the table, but just so you know! I also laughed out loud when Marmol blew his first save (after 16 successful in a row) and people were calling for a demotion. Ahhhh to be a Cubs fan.
April 22: Z moves into the pen to stabilize and anchor the 7th & 8th inning chaos. Cubs record: 6-10
May 3: Cubs record 13-13 (7-3 .700 winning percentage since the move).
Obviously there are a lot of factors that play into a team winning 7 of 10, but is it just POSSIBLE that the move is working to the benefit of the WHOLE team?
Just maybe?
"Look, what do you want me to do?"
I'd say the offense scoring a ton of runs is the reason for the 7-3 run...
In the time frame of the move, the team has scored 65 runs in those 10 games (6.5 runs per game). In the first 16 games, they’d scored 64 runs (4 runs per game). In the last 10 games, we’ve scored more than 5 runs in 5 games.
When we’ve scored more than 5 runs, we’re 9-1. When we’ve scored less than 5 runs, we’re 3-10. So unless you argue that moving Zambrano to the pen led to the offense, I’d say the move has had little if any effect on outcomes.
You could certainly argue that the decision hasn’t hurt the team to this point (and I’d agree with that), but I think it’s a stretch to say that it’s had much of a benefit the team. It’s possible, but I’d say it’s unlikely.
One thing that people seem to forget to me is that moving Z to the pen
has probably had a large part in two victories because he isn’t in the starting rotation. I know you can’t extend that a long way and be sure he wouldn’t turn it around…but he has been relatively successful in relief and definitely wasn’t as a starter this season.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions
I like Big Z's swagger when he comes in from the bullpen.
Talk about a dominant ‘end of the pen’ guy.
"Look, what do you want me to do?"
Thats a pretty myopic view
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
see bren's post,
apparently what you claim is impossible
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 4, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, whats your defense of this?
How is this beneficial to the long term health of the team? Gozrelanny and Silva are bums, so why jerk Z around b/c those two are off to a good April and will surely falter?
Why not take D.Lee and make him a bench player to add power there?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Gozrelanny and Silva are bums, so why jerk Z around b/c those two are off to a good April and will surely falter?
Where is your proof of this?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
years of statistical evidence
and common sense
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Who said it was a long term move?
Try debating what was actually posted instead of making stuff up. Get a grip.
I always turn to the sports section first. The sports page records people's accomplishments; the front page has nothing but man's failures.
~Earl Warren
by lookingdeadred on May 5, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I didnt say it was a long term move
I said this move will impact the team long term. Get a grip on the syntax
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think Lou is showing he has zero confidence in the bullpen beyond Marshall and Marmol.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:51 AM CDT reply actions
Well, yes. So?
The others need to either do the job or enjoy the cornfields of Iowa and long bus rides.
"Look, what do you want me to do?"
I think Lou is showing he wants to win ballgames and go out for Prime Rib and Baked Potato.
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
you think he's
an umbrella type guy?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
