A Letter From Tom Ricketts.... About The Toyota Sign
by Al Yellon on May 3, 2010 1:30 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs News
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Earlier this afternoon I received an email from the Cubs, signed by chairman Tom Ricketts, regarding the proposed Toyota advertising sign.
Many of you may have received the same email. I'm posting it here because I know this has been a contentious topic of discussion among people I know both here and outside BCB.
My position is well known. I don't really care if a single sign is placed -- and no, I don't think it's a "slippery slope" which would result in Wrigley Field looking like Chase Field or Miller Park. It's bringing in money which can help the team in many different ways.
The only place where I disagree with Tom Ricketts' comments in the letter is where he says the opposition to the sign comes from "commercial interests of one particular building" -- obviously, you know the one he's talking about. Frankly, that's not quite true -- opposition as stated here by many of you has been for aesthetic and other reasons. For me, just as the rotating sign behind the plate, the Citibank sign that's now on the box seats near third base, and the Under Armour signs on the outfield doors -- I really don't care. They don't affect my focus and concentration on what's going on down on the field -- baseball. And if the money brought in by advertising helps the Cubs get better players so they can win the World Series -- I say go for it. About the only thing you can really criticize here is the choice of a company as an advertiser that is subject to quite a bit of controversy these days, none of it related to the Cubs.
After the jump, the complete text of the email.
A letter from Cubs Chairman Tom Ricketts
Dear Friends,
You've probably been hearing about the Toyota sign we've proposed for the back of the left field bleachers at Wrigley Field. As fans and neighbors, we want you to know why this is important to the team and how it can help preserve the Friendly Confines.
As you know, Major League ballparks have historically relied on in-park signage to generate revenue. Legendary Fenway Park, older than Wrigley Field, has added significant signage throughout its outfield - and two World Series championships - in the last six years. Most other MLB teams also receive substantial public subsidies; we do not. In our case, we have asked for one sign in the outfield.
When we became owners, my family and I anticipated the need to spend tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars over the years ahead to preserve Wrigley Field. This past off-season, before we saw a single game as owners, we invested $10 million to shore up the infrastructure of the aging ballpark, renovate and expand its bathrooms, preserve our beloved scoreboard and replace some of the less attractive features of the park, like the concrete panels on the Addison street façade. As long-time Cubs fans, we know Wrigley Field is a special place and our hope is for future generations to share the wonderful experience of visiting the Friendly Confines.
In addition to the dollars invested in the park, we have maintained one of the highest payrolls in baseball and increased our budget for scouting and development - the key to future success. Winning a championship requires significant financial resources and we are currently reinvesting all profits - from the Toyota sign and otherwise - to make this happen.
Beyond the economics, there is an important principle at stake here. Wrigley Field has thrived for years as a privately-owned facility, albeit one where public interest is keen. We believe the park continues to be well-served by this principle which has guided its operation for nearly a century.
We have also been very respectful of the City's landmark designation and the process we have undertaken to win approval has been thorough. We've worked with the City and made adjustments, including modifying the location and design of the sign at the request of preservationists and City zoning officials. We've also worked with the rooftop businesses and in fact chose the proposed location because it least impacts those rooftop partners with whom we have long-term agreements. The landmark designation was never intended to put Wrigley Field in a time capsule. It's intended to allow flexibility and growth, within reason, to help the ballpark stay alive for the decades to come.
Finally, much of the opposition is rooted in commercial interests of one particular building and is designed to protect advertising currently on a rooftop across the street from Wrigley Field. Protecting the interests of one rooftop advertisement does not help preserve Wrigley Field or put together a championship team.
We would welcome your help and support for this sign. If you would like to lend your voice in support, please e-mail us at cubsfanfeedback@cubs.com.
I hope this information is helpful. Efforts like this are important as we continue to invest in our team and our 96-year-old ballpark. Improvements to Wrigley Field and modest changes throughout the years have kept the Friendly Confines alive while other stadiums have come and gone. Working together as we have allows us to remain viable and continue to flourish.
Thank you again for your help. And Go Cubs!
Sincerely,
Tom Ricketts
Chairman
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My issue isn't with ANY sign.
It’s with this one. Its UGLY.
When the purpose of it’s placement has nothing to do with Wrigley and everything to do with something across the street, big warning bells go off. This isn’t being implemented in a way that best compliments the field, or best serves the fans, or best adds to the experience, or best fits with the building. Its being implemented to best line the pockets of the team.
I understand its a business and the team has to make money, but there is quite obviously a large contingent of this particular business’s customers who don’t agree with the decision as it is currently laid out.
The ads in Fenway are far better integrated to match the look of the field. The Toyota sign is placed to block something across the street. This is BAD.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
If you own a Toyota it's a beautiful sign
{sarcasm}
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on May 3, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Fenway's ads...
http://www.wsc.ma.edu/personalpages/draker/edcom/final/webprojects/sp09/lostboston/fenway2304.jpg
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I'd much prefer the one ugly ad at Wrigley than all of those...
I tend to completely disagree that they are better integrated to match the field, there are just so many more that they tend to take a part of the field – it’s not one sign that stands out.
As Al and many others say – if it brings revenue to the team, so be it. It is not ON the field, it does not distract the play, and it helps bring in resources to gaurantee more financial help in the future.
At Fenway, they are evenly spaced across the outfield...
… they are consistent in size (something that is unlikely to be the case if another sign is added to wrigley, considering the odd decision to make the Toyota sign the way it is), their support beams are the same color as the rest of the outfield structure, they more or less stick to a logo on a solid color (not busy / distracting to the eye), the colors they use are generally not distracting…
None of this is the sort of thing that is being considered with this Toyota sign. The only consideration is getting something up to block the neighboring rooftop ad from TV viewers. Its an asinine way to design a structure that is being attached to a building that so strongly represents just the opposite of this mentality to many people.
And for the record, i feel obligated to mention this every time i make this point: I’m all for the additional signs in Wrigley, and i’m fine with Toyota, as much as i would be with any other advertiser. I’m not opposed to selling the naming rights, i’m not opposed to a Jumbotron… i’m not one of Worf’s ‘traditionalists’ that values the history more than the reality. I just think this particular sign is ugly, and the $$$ they bring in from an additional sign wouldn’t necessarily have to be any less if they designed it in a way that looked like it BELONGED in Wrigley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
apples and oranges
what is behind the park is different…I think fenways looks fine, but that would be horrible at WF
by cozmotaylor123 on May 3, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
To each his own, i suppose...
… but at least you can tell they put up what they did at Fenway with the focus of integrating it in to the park, not playing games with the external world.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
what the hell does...
…playing games with the external world.
mean?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions
They aren't puting this sign up where they are in response to some internal factor...
… or based upon what works best in Wrigley. They are doing it based on an ad some jerk has across the street.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
So you're against it becuse you think it's ugly AND you feel sorry for the jerk across the street?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
No, i'm all for screwing Gramatis on this.
Just seems that should be left to the lawyers.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
you could also look at it from another perspective, as Ricketts explains in his letter
Cubs have an opportunity to put up a sign in the outfield, but they have a business relationship with rooftop owners that depend on decent sightlines into the park. So, where can the sign be placed that will have the least possible impact on those rooftops with which the Cubs have a business relationship? Right where they have it.
So in that respect, they are putting it where it works best in Wrigley.
If you think I’m being naive, ask yourself this – what if there was no advertising on that particular rooftop? I’d have to believe that the sign would still be placed exactly where it is now.
Although it pleases me to no end to see Gramatis getting screwed over on this, I have to believe the location of the sign has more to do with the other rooftops than with that particular one.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So make the ads 3 feet tall and run all the way along the top of the bleachers.
Or put them somewhere else all together – if the sight lines of the bleachers are spoken for contractually, why try to jam ads up there in the few feet that they’ll fit?
As i stated below, i’m guessing the sign is see-thru instead of a solid billboard because it would block the view of some rooftop patrons otherwise.
The fact is, the team is spending its time on THIS instead of something that’d make them some REAL money like a jumbotron or selling the naming rights, because Waveland and Sheffield have been part of a pissing match between property owners and the team for years now. Ricketts is coming in and setting a president – “this is my field, my product, my revenue, and if you want to play, you’ll play my way”. I’m all for that. And Gramatis is a dick who deserves everything he gets.
I just wish the statement didn’t have to come in the form of such an eyesore.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Are you really advocating a 3 foot tall marketing banner across the bleachers??
I’d love to see the idiot who buys those!
And you’re against this “ugly” Toyota sign but you’re all for a Jumbotron?? You think THAT wouldnt be obtrusive?? What would you say if Wrigley put in a Jumbotron that had that giant Toyota logo on top such as Fenway does with John Hancock?
Andrew would want to know how much $ it brings in first.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Ugh.
I’m advocating finding a less ugly way to advertise in Wrigley. And if one isn’t available, i’m advocating installing something (a Jumbotron) that’ll at least bring in the cash to pay for something meaningful.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
You wouldn't find a Jumbotron ugly?
I’m not against Jumbotrons, but I’d think you would be, based on your other comments.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I haven't seen a mockup for a jumbotron, so i can't have an opinion on it's ugliness.
I doubt it’d be 10x as ugly – i bet it’d bring in 10x the revenue. That is my point.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Understood.
Obviously, there really isn’t any place at Wrigley for a Jumbotron. If you’ve seen the newer Jumbotrons (Atlanta, San Francisco, Washington) they are at least four times the size of the Wrigley scoreboard (maybe even larger — I’m guesstimating). There simply isn’t anywhere they could put such a huge structure.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What about a jumbotron with the exact same dimensions as the
current scoreboard? Have the layout look the same as the current scoreboard except allow the screen to display information at times, but default back to the current layout. You would satisfy the purists with the current layout and allow information to be shown on the screen between innings and when the game isn’t in progress.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 4, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I've always assumed it would be across the street...
… or somewhere on the outfield brick area that is currently occupied by ivy (landmark status aside). I’m not really hot on either idea, but there aren’t a lot of logical options.
Get this: the screens hanging from at centercourt in basketball arenas are generally 8×11 feet, or 88 square feet. You could fit four of those inside the square footage of the Toyota sign.
It wouldn’t exactly be the talk of the digital imaging world, but it’d generate plenty of revenue as well as communicate a lot of information that currently isn’t available at Wrigley. And i bet Toyota would be amenable to their logo being displayed on it.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Is Obama aware of this and involved?
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say it's still a home run.
So will the umps, and everyone else that is involved with baseball. I’d say it’d be a nice shot though, thats for sure.
Integrating it into the park?
This is your beef here? How are Fenway’s signs any more integrated into the park than the current and future (Toyota) signs at Wrigley?
There are 6 signs above the outfield seats, each larger in size than the proposed Toyota sign… and none of them are “integrated” into the park. They’re merely slapped onto support beams.
And this doesn’t count the John Hancock sign on the scoreboard, or the Citgo sign from the neighborhood.
Then… you have more ads plastered onto the outfield wall in CF and RF. Is that “integrated?” I’d say the Under Armour ads on the Wrigley doors were integrated much better to their environment… and are whimsical with the doors being metal and the “Under Amour” of the ballpark.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
I've been over this.
At Fenway, they are evenly spaced across the outfield they are consistent in size (something that is unlikely to be the case if another sign is added to wrigley, considering the odd decision to make the Toyota sign the way it is), their support beams are the same color as the rest of the outfield structure, they more or less stick to a logo on a solid color (not busy / distracting to the eye), the colors they use are generally not distracting…
None of this is the sort of thing that is being considered with this Toyota sign. The only consideration is getting something up to block the neighboring rooftop ad from TV viewers. Its an asinine way to design a structure that is being attached to a building that so strongly represents just the opposite of this mentality to many people.
Look, i’m something of a design nerd so i’ll be the first to admit my eye is drawn to things others shrug and ignore. But the fact remains – THIS AD IS DESIGNED AND PLACED TO BLOCK SOMETHING ACROSS THE STREET, NOT TO LOOK GOOD IN WRIGLEY.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
This is just me...
…but I’m more concerned about the product on the field, and the boys at Fenway have done quite well the last litle while in that department.
I’m much less a stadium fan, than I am of the team.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
those coke bottles aren't exactly consistent in size are they?
and the Citgo sign for that matter, although I think that one is across the street
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I can't possibly see how the Toyota sign at Wrigley is much different than the Ford sign at Fenway
Except for the fact that it’s a solid board at fenway. You say it’s different with the Toyota sign, but your reasons just don’t fit what you’re saying. That sign is no more obtrusive than any one of the signs at Fenway.
The fact that its a standard billboard shape helps.
The fact that it is a solid piece and not a blow-through outline helps.
The fact that it is placed to match the existing lines of Fenway (as opposed to block something across the street) helps.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
Is that really how it will look?
Held up by some criss-crossed 2X4’s? Is this a bad joke? What’s happening?
by 100yearitch on May 3, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm trying to envision Phil Wrigley ever putting something like this in the newspapers back in the day...
Nope. I can’t see him doing it.
As for Mr. Ricketts, give him credit for communication as to the ‘why’ and soliciting input. If asked, I’d say I don’t like it, but it’s your ballpark sir and you can do this if you wish. I’d prefer NO ads of any kind inside Wrigley, but that ship has already sailed.
"Look, what do you want me to do?"
Correction
“Finally, much of the opposition is rooted in commercial interests of one particular building”
That’s the exact quote. That is much different from your quote Al :
the opposition to the sign comes from “commercial interests of one particular building”
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
you left out "much of"
that does make a difference
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
So misleading...
We’ve also worked with the rooftop businesses and in fact chose the proposed location because it least impacts those rooftop partners with whom we have long-term agreements.
How about…
… in fact chose the proposed location to block the one guy who makes the biggest stink.
Anybody with half a grain of design sense knows you place elements in order to best accentuate what you’ve got, not to toy with some external factor you’ve got no control over. What if dude knocks down his building and builds one 2 stories taller? Do we get a bigger Toyota sign?
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Two birds with one stone is all it is.
I think this sign was going up whether or not the horseshoe building was an issue – it’s just nice to take care of that ad and generate revenue from the Toyota sign all at once.
Take care of the Horseshoe ad with some lawyers...
… and don’t stick something UGLY up in Wrigley. The revenue wouldn’t have to be any less if the team put up something that was aesthetically pleasing.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Horseshoe ad good as gone w/rooftop ...
I heard the house with the Horseshoe ad was bought and that it was going to be turned into a rooftop venue. If that’s the case, this sign might be in the sight line. Mind you, this is hearsay.
Very hearsay.
The guy that bought the building already owns several rooftops. See the answers to DTP’s question here for more explanation.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
thanks ... but is there the possibility
that the Cubs put this sign up to try to ‘muscle’ Gramatis to selling the property to them so they can generate revenue with advertising and/or Jumbotron there? I know the idea of a Jumbotron has been kicked around and maybe there’s a fit for it there …
If that is their masterplan, than i'll take back what i've said in this thread.
If the Toyota sign is just a temp deal to make way for the real thing (which presumably wouldn’t be so haphazardly ugly, and may bring in some difference-making revenue), i’ll bow before Ricketts and noever question his judgment in these issues again.
I’ve seen no indication that there is a plan beyond the Toyota sign, though.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
And that's the sad thing in all of this
If ever there was a textbook definition of a win-win scenario, it would have been this one.
- New owners of the team wanting to make a splash.
- Relatively new owner of the Budweiser building, rumored to be wanting to tear it down and build a new rooftop seating building but hasn’t done it yet so should still be open to other options.
- Assuming Cubs want to go the Jumbotron route but no real feasible spot for it within Wrigley Field
Add it all up and there’s no reason that two reasonable businessmen could not have come to a solution that would leave them both swimming in money.
But apparently Gramatis has been an ass almost from day one of his involvement with this rooftop business stuff and certainly made no friends with TribCo the last few years. And apparently has no desire to make friends with the Ricketts. Personally, I think he’s in for a rude awakening.
The part I can’t figure out is why the other rooftop owners put up with him. I understand they may have no choice, but you’d think they’d find a way to convince him that it really doesn’t help their overall business if one of them continues to act like a jerk. Then again, maybe he’s their fearless leader.
Hmm…. all of a sudden, I have this urge to watch all the Godfather movies – yes, even III.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Aside from being obscured for the people in the left field bleachers...
… it WOULD be a pretty kick ass spot for a Jumbotron. And i image it could be used by those outside the stadium as well then – a cool benefit.
I have a feeling the city / neighborhood / alderman would REALLY seethe over a jumbotron that wasn’t in the field, though.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a "sign" of the times
I can see what the Ricketts family is up against. They want a team but have this facility that needs all this work that detracts from the goal of getting the best players with expanded payroll. It is what it is, a chance to recoup some money spent on an aging but beautiful ballpark.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
actually,
it’s the “time” of the “signs”
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This is only the start...
…of Ricketts going after additional revenues with his families $$$ on the line.
If I was him, I would do the samething.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Gonna have to bite the bullet
on this one and say, this is the best of all the bad solutions out there. wrigley Field needs to be renovated, and this is the least painful way to bring in much needed revenue for this. We all knew this day was coming.
"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will
Avatar provided courtesy of AndrewJStone.
Why not make it like the Volvo sign at Fenway?
It would actually fit into the stadium, not be a sore thumb
This is the year...
by Chanman25 on May 3, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
What's any differnet between the Volvo sign and the Toyota sign?
Other than the Volvo sign taking up an even larger square footage, because it’s on a billboard? And the Volvo sign is slapped up there where it never once belonged befere, just like the Toyota sign.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
no the look of it, I could care less what it adverstises
it just doesn’t look good. A billboard would fit, and it would actually seem to cover up the view of that casino building.
This is the year...
THIS. REC'D.
I can’t expect everybody to see what i see – beauty is in the eye of the beholder – but this Toyota sign isn’t designed in an attractive way. And that is because being attractive wasn’t its goal – blocking an ad across the street was.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
If blocking the ad across the street was the goal, they did a pretty piss poor job, don't you think?
If they wanted to block the ad across the street, why isn’t it a solid billboard-type sign? Why isn’t it wider?
Most likely because a solid billboard-type wider ad would never have made it this far in the approval process. You can already tell by Tunney’s quotes that he’d give his blessing (if that matters) to the current see-thru design if it were a little more “modest”.
The Cubs, Toyota, and whatever ad/design agency types they brought in on this effort brainstormed on this and came up with the design they felt would be the most eye-catching (and thus command a higher fee) within the constraints of what Wrigley Field represents AND would get approved. Oh, and not cause conflict with the existing rooftop business relationship. It’s a tricky balancing act. Remains to be seen if they hit the convergence of all those factors or not.
I thinking generating revenue was the goal – partial obscuring of the pain-in-the-ad across the street is just a fringe benefit.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
...
If they wanted to block the ad across the street, why isn’t it a solid billboard-type sign? Why isn’t it wider?
Probably because much of this area is already spoken for in the contracts with the rooftop owners. Which leads back to the question – if you only have a few feet of unintuitive space to place an ad, why not angle for an area that is better suited to the purpose?
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
What they're working with now is not "a few feet" - it's pretty substantive
as evidenced by the size of the ad used in the mockups. So why isn’t it solid instead of see-thru?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Bottom line is that, like it or not, they've made up their mind
…and there’s basically nothing we can do about it.
Do I like the sign? No, I hate it. But I don’t have a lot of energy to fight battles that are already lost.
Just make sure you put the money back into the product, Tom-there won’t be a lot of people complaining if it’s supporting a winning baseball team.
agreed....that's why I'm not saying a thing more on it
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I think it's okay
as long as it only blocks the horshoe casino roof (that is basically all it blocks right?). I mean people that look in that direction would have been looking at an add anyway so we might as well get money from it.
One is harmless, attached to some building i don't care about across the street.
The other directly affects the look of a building i care very deeply about. And while i certainly won’t pretend that “no ads” is at all reasonable, i’d hope the ads they do put in are placed where they’d look best IN WRIGLEY, not where they’d best block some other ad the team’s ownership doesn’t make money off of.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
why do you care so much for a building?
wouldn’t you care for the Cubs just as much if they played at a field as ugly as US Cellular?
Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08 Coffee Table Debut: 7/17/08 (http://www.wearecubsfans.com)
not me
The cubs and Wrigley are one in the same to me.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know
but I also don’t care to find out.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
If you don't get it, you don't get it.
There are some places in the world that are unique, beautiful, and should be changed only with great care. I believe Wrigley is one of them. The people that agree with me are not small in number.
There are a few places i’ve been in my life (the Parthenon, The Guggenheim Bilbao Museum, Red Rocks Amphitheater, the Pantheon, Wrigley Field, Fenway, Westminster Abbey) that had an effect on me upon entering. Places that have that sort of power (even if you don’t experience it) should be protected.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 3, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
I agree with Andrew.
However, in this case, as Ricketts notes, Wrigley isn’t a museum (as many of the others you mention are). This can be done respectfully.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
It can be done respectfully.
This Toyota sign isn’t the answer.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Toyota is very disrepectful to baseball!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't tell if you are joking or not.
Its the design and placement of the sign, not the brand. I’ve been pretty clear about that.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I guess you'll have to get over it then.
If it won’t make the team better, then it’ won’t make the team worse.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't even have anything to do with my point.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Your point about it being disrepectful doesn't hold water.
I’m trying to match you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Al used the word respectful, not me.
I used UGLY, and it has nothing to do with the Toyota logo, it had to do with the sign’s design.
I suspect you get all that and are just being adverse to entertain yourself though.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
To me...
…the cubs going 102 years without a championship is a hell of a lot uglier.
If your so bothered by the sign, you must be in serious distress about the Cub’s inability to win a championship.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 3, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
SWL = Blou
Neither make sense and both try to antagonize
by KyCubsFan on May 3, 2010 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think thats an inaccurate statement
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah... BLou can be a bully...
… i consider SWL more of the “class clown”.
Enjoys stirring up trouble (not always a bad thing), and likes to try to make the kids in the lunchroom shoot chocolate milk out of their noses with funny photos.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions
And SWL makes sense. Big distinction.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
you couldn't be more wrong
"I mean, if we can’t take Colvin after the spring he’s had, something is wrong," -- Lou
GREEN!
This is so awesome I hope it gets a thousand recommendations.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Dan, I want you to be the maraschino cherry on the top of my tire fire.
Kansas Basketball is overrated.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't bring up the huge JHawk in the middle of their court.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Completely wrong.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Uh, what?
Not a good comparison. That’s like saying x = y when x is 4 and y is 5.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
ok
but if x= angry, disillusioned and trying to stir up controversy and y= smart alleck, thread hijacking, and occasionally posting just to be annoying its pretty close.
So... you're saying you're Y, right?
I think I get it now….
something not see-through
and not glowing would be a good start, for me.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you really a guy?
Wait, you’re talking about the sign…never mind.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
derp derp
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Well...
Information is easier consumed on a solid background – i don’t like the sign just being a red frame, and it doesn’t even really serve the purpose of “blocking” the horseshoe ad.
It’s placement isn’t done to match its surroundings, its done to obstruct the view from a TV camera behind the plate – and thus, the lines of the sign don’t match up with the existing lines of the bleachers (like the signs in Fenway do).
And it isn’t a standard billboard size (as the signs in Fenway are), so when the next sign goes up, it’s likely to be just as haphazardly shaped.
Frankly, i’d be much happier if Ricketts told us we were getting four or six signs, but that they’d be uniformly sized and distributed across the top of the bleachers, they’d all be a solid color in the background and feature a company’s logo ONLY. Kind of like… woah… scratch that… JUST LIKE FENWAY.
The fact that he’d drop Fenway’s name in the letter and not grasp the difference between what they did (integrate tasteful signage to increase revenue) and what this is (drop our approved logo to in the perfect spot to block some other asshole’s logo) worries me.
And i bet Fenway makes a lot more money off their strategy, all while not upsetting a bunch of their traditionalist fans.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 3, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
100% agree
for the record, I dont oppose advertising, and IMHO Toyota, in the position they’re in right now probably would have agreed to ANY kind of signage at Wrigley
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I've been to Wrigley like most of you, and I didn't sit in the stands in awe
looking at the field, stands, and all of that stuff. I sit there and watched the game!!! Who cares. I bet you said the same thing when they came out with internet and you thought that it would take the place of the old fashioned newspaper.
by alabamacubbie on May 3, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Ummm, I hope the newspaper thing is a joke??
You realize they’re all going under pretty badly, correct?
He should have said cassette tapes taking the place of radio.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
cassette tapes?
I’m listening to my 8-track now and it sounds great!
Who is they?
I was just talking about the newspaper in general, everywhere. It’s not to bad in the south.
by alabamacubbie on May 3, 2010 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Cant speak for Bama
But I work in the SW for an internet company owned by 5 of the biggest media companies in the nation… I can tell you that they’ve all seen better days.
That's what I'm saying...
Why does all these people complain? Are you guys the one that sits up top on the horse shoe casino. Everyone is worried about that one guy that can’t see the game. Who cares? It’s not you? That one guy is rich and can afford a lawyer or adding another story to his building. Why do you care for that one guy?
by alabamacubbie on May 3, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
this has nothing to do
with the people on top of that building. I don’t even know if people CAN sit on top of that building.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Well I was just referring to a post that said something about screwing over
that one guy that is watching the game from there, but if you can’t see anything from over there, then oh well.
by alabamacubbie on May 3, 2010 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions
We are not the Red Sox, and Wrigley is NOT Fenway.
I hate that Ricketts is turning Wrigley into Fenway Midwest, but I am more annoyed by the cynical reaction by the so-called ‘neighborhood.’
The Toyota sign is not going to have ANY effect on the property values of the neighborhood, and those astroturf activists are solely working for that one building.
Baseball fans may wring their hands, but the City and the neighborhood have no beef here.
For me, if it will keep my season ticket price, I will make the tradeoff.
Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher; DNP - Sparky Anderson's decision
Is it realistic...
…to expect an owner that had to come up with almost a billion dollars to not explore every avenue to increase revenue?
It is very easy to be idealistic about these things when it isn’t you that has come up with the dough to buy the team, don’t ya think?
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Especially with all the debt service they have.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Don't care, at all.
Signs
=
Money
=
Players
=
Winning
=
Championship
=
I can die happy
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 3, 2010 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 12 recs
How is that
working out for you?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
The dying?
Or the happiness?
Or what?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Agreed....
for the most part. We just can’t be blowing that money on stupid contracts. I couldn’t care at all about the sign. Still feel Hendry is not the guy who can bring us a championship
www.twentytoeighty.com
The Cubs are third in payroll now.
Is the Toyota sign really the missing link? Me thinks not. If Hendry’s minor league system had produced even a trickle of every day players since he’s been in charge, he wouldn’t have to overpay at practically every position on the field.
Money
+
Good GM
=
Championship
THIS.
If the rumored revenue for this sign holds true, it’ll be worth less than the yearly salary for guys like Grabow. Hell, it’ll only bring in about one tenth of what we pay guys like Zambrano and Soriano his year.
Alternately, in a year it’ll bring in only about one FIFTH of what the Ricketts claim they spent on Wrigley’s infrastructure this off season, so this won’t be paying to rebuild the grandstand.
Everybody acting like this is OK simply because it’ll bring us a Championship is seriously overvaluing what it’ll bring to the team. If that is the case, than instead of trying to justify this sign that really won’t pay out much, you should be emailing cubsfanfeedback@cubs.com and telling them to sell the naming rights and put up a Jumbotron.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 3, 2010 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Right on target
The added revenue is not worth what it detracts from the ballpark ambience. Wrigley is a special place. Now, I haven’t seen it in person, so I will reserve final judgment until I go to the park, but judging from the pictures posted here, I don’t like it.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The idea of generating revenue for new construction or for team improvements is not:
Oh, this wont pay for the WHOLE thing in one year – it isn’t worth it! The idea is that in the long run, the revenue generated from this sign (or signs in the future) will add up to a VERY large amount of money.
3M this year is 30M in 10 years.
OK...
… but i wasn’t arguing that. I was saying the amount brought in isn’t worth the uglifying of Wrigley, and if they really feel the need to stick something there to block the Horseshoe ad, they may as well put up a Jumbotron and pull in $30 million instead. At least with that, we’d see some benefit to the team’s bottom line that would be felt in the lineup or at Wrigley. This will barely get us a replacement level reliever. Why go to all the trouble for that?
3M this year is 30M in 10 years.
Neat math. But that has nothing to do with the rumored deal between the Cubs and Toyota, which is for less money and a shorter period.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
You're being a drama queen.
No one said this lone sign will “bring us a championship”. It’s a symbolic action of things to come more than anything, Andrew.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
symbolicaly name the damn building
Walgreen’s Wrigley Field get the 30 million per year and stop adding semi tacky signs. The major point is “this sign is ugly” secondary point this sign won’t pay for Grabow.
What's dramatic about that?
It brings in X money, and in my mind, that amount isn’t worth the effect on Wrigley.
Its a personal opinion, and not one you are required to share, but calling me a drama queen for daring to hold an opinion that isn’t in line with yours seems an odd way to deal with it.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Best Way to Save Money
I’d like to know how much money the Ricketts are putting into player development. If you’ve got a lot of homegrown talent on your ballclub, you don’t have to overpay for free agents. Give me a club with good player development and an $85 million payroll any day over a club that has poor player development and a $170 million payroll.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
and I show you a team that loses it's best star players year after year....
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Overpriced Free Agents Taking Up Payroll
For big payroll teams with poor farm systems, how much of their payroll is locked up in just four players or fewer? Sure, I’d rather have the big payroll with the good farm system. If I had to choose, I’ll take the middling payroll and the good farm system over the high payroll and bad farm system. I would never want to have a piddling payroll that was $50 million or under.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
That's because a great deal of value was dealt away last season...
Going into 2009, Baseball America rated the Cardinals system #8 and Keith law rated it #6.
The Cardinals also have a significant number of homegrown players on the ML roster.
Ah yahbut they had to deal their good prospects last season
In large part because they didn’t have or didn’t want to spend money instead.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not following...
They dealt their top prospect for Matt Holliday, who promptly signed a $120 million contract.
And how exactly does dealing your top prospects prevent you from spending money in the first place?
Especially mid-season?
Oh I see...
You’re saying because they didn’t blow a bunch of money in the FA market prior to this offseason, they were forced to deal prospects for ML talent.
Because that has clearly worked so well in Chicago.
I thought the whole point of the discussion was that the Cubs need to develop more talent that is cheap, serves as valuable trade bait, and prevents perpetual overspending in the FA market.
That’s exactly what the Cardinals did.
Now many of those guys are in St. Louis, and some were traded away, and the system is ranked towards the bottom again.
My entire point is even with the best teams it goes both ways.
It’s absolutely impossible to have a great parent club and a very strong farm system for an extended period of time.
The fact that the Cubs DO have the payroll to facilitate their team makes a huge difference.
I don't disagree...
I thought you were making the argument that the Cardinals have been successful without a productive minor league system.
Not at all
My point is that to look at a snapshot won’t tell the whole story.
Probably not...
…but if it helps buy out the rest of Hendry’s deal – go for it!!!
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
We would welcome your help and support for this sign. If you would like to lend your voice in support, please e-mail us at cubsfanfeedback@cubs.com.
Who do we email to lend our voice against this particular implementation?
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
Email to
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
HA HA!!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Your alderman, if you live in the city.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2010 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Gramatis is an ass...
I say do anything it takes to infuriate him. Plus, at the end of the day, the revenue generated by the Toyota sign probably makes up the difference in what Wrigley should be receiving in the revenue-share agreement for advertising on that building that went out the window when Tom signed his own contract with Horseshoe.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
Can somebody fill me n on "one organization" that's pissed off about this?
I don’t live in Chicago so I don’t know all the drama.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
From what I can tell
It is the people who own the former “Budwiser House” across the street from the ballpark.
Tom Gramatis
bought the Horseshoe building early last year I think, and right before the start of the season he canceled the Budweiser contract stating that they were behind in payments or something close. He abruptly terminated for cause that contract and had Horseshoe conveniently waiting in the wings to sign a new contract with him which I thing was not approved by the Cubs – just in time for opening day. That move has upset Cubs management from the start, and I think there may be revenue-share funds that are not going back to the Cubs due to language in the contract.
I’m probably not 100% correct in some of these statements, but this is overall gist of the situation I believe.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
I don't live in Chicago either...
but this makes sense. Too much sense. Even if this ends up not being completely right, I’m going to make believe it is right.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
correction...
…these events took place before the start of the playoffs in 2008.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
Honestly,
For a fanbase that has not seen a World Series Championship in 102 years, I think the least of our worries is bitching and moaning about a freaken sign.
I swear, I think some people are so worried about WRIGLEY WRIGLEY WRIGLEY!!! so much, that they lose track of the notion that, at the end of the season it doesnt matter if your stadium has 10,000 ads, a 500 foot tall HD jumbotron or green beautiful ivy on the outfield walls, The ONLY thing that matters is Winning a Championship. PERIOD
The Toyota sign isnt going to help Aramis’ struggles at the plate or the fact that Ted Lilly was hit hard against the D-backs the other day. But what It could..and i use that term loosely, is help the Cubs by freeing up extra money that could go towards Winning in October.
by Galvan316 on May 3, 2010 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You forget about all the time moaning about the Wave.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Hah. Seriously.
The same people mocking me for being upset that the team is affixing some ugly to their historical field are the ones practically tweaking out because some fans stood and raised their arms in a well planned and uniform non-permanent formation.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Your argument makes little sense to me. If the sign isn't going to affect the team winning
A WS, and I agree it isn’t, what difference does it make that fans worry about the historical and aesthetic aspects of Wrigley Field? I disagree with you that the only thing that matters about watching the Cubs or any other team is winning a championship, and others do as well…or Mark McGwire would be in the HOF right now. But that’s beside the point. The sign isn’t going to generate enough revenue to make a significant difference for payroll, so if you want that to happen, a genuine solution should be offered rather than a sign put up to piss off the building owner Ricketts is pissed at.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Must. Get. A. Toyota.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
I've got 4 of them
I have one with $3000 damage from an accident on the ice I could sell you cheap.
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
How about $1?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
As long as the keep the troughs, I really dont care what they do.
I’m just impressed at the Rickett’s commitment to preserving the troughs at Wrigley.
Just looking at that sign
makes me want to go out, buy a Toyota, and then drive down to Horseshoe Casino in Indiana and start gambling!
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
As long as you drink a case of Bud Light on the way...
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
If you call Shotgun
Let’s go! I mean, what bad thing could happen?
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on May 3, 2010 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
OT: Just can't help it....
The Mariners released Eric Byrnes today. He “Stormed” out of the locker room yesterday on a bicycle.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
One of the reasons they cut him is that he pulled his bat back on an
attempted squeeze with Ichiro barreling down from third. That guy has always been kind of strange, but he certainly is interesting. He probably has seen his last days in baseball.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I just hope someone (like Fox)
doesn’t hire him in a broadcasting capacity. I really find him annoying.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard he's gonna write a regular column for the sun-times. :-)
His other offer was to do color for White Sox broadcasts.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Bravo Ricketts !
Wrigley Field isn’t a museum, but rather a baseball stadium that is part of a business enterprise. So long as improvements to Wrigley are done in a smart manner, 9 out of 10 Cub fans will solidly support the Cubs in adding signage, naming rights etc.
Mayor Daley can stuff it up his ass. He has forever been an obstructionist to the best interests of the Chicago Cubs baseball operation.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
by BLou on May 3, 2010 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
One thing you and I agree on completely
Keep the Ivy, keep the park, but the museum will be in the triangle building where it belongs. Wrigley is where baseball is played, and you play baseball to win. If this helps that cause in any way it is a good thing.
+1
Too much time has been taken up with this frivilous stuff. Good for you, Tom.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the naming rights are still in the hands of the Wrigley family,
and if they don’t want to part with them, tough titties (as my English mother would say).
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
by eths on May 3, 2010 4:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You had me at
Mayor Daley can stuff it up his ass.
"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.
I agree with you about Daley, but I won't ever green anything
from that idiot troll above. He just swoops in to stir up shit and I haven’t missed him. Ever.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn't make sense
So you’ll blindly agree or disagree with someone based on who they are, not what they are saying?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2010 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Green'd
I don’t really see how this kills the sight of Wrigley Field. It’s not as if we’re gunna be looking straight at the sign anyway, we’ll be looking at the field, where the Cubs play. Even the Under Armour signs, which are directly inside the playing field, aren’t noticeable. Makes me think that many times we won’t even notice the sign either.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Finally, you and I agree on something.
Everything you say is right.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions
9 out of 10 you say?
You must be terrible at math, because it seems this entire thread is complaining about it. I, for the life of me, can;t figure out what the heck they’re complaining about.
What? They don’t want a giant red sign in background of LF? Newsflash: we’ve had a giant red sign in the background for the last 20 years or so: it was a Budweiser rooftop.
Honestly, these are the same people that complained about the Under Armour doors… and I’m sure they could care less about the doors now.
If Lou Piniella grew a mustache, would they freak out about that too?
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
look
the Budweiser sign was not PART of Wrigley. It was the rooftop of the building across the street. This sign will be attached to the structure of the ballpark, rising about the sightline of the bleachers. That hasn’t happened before.
In addition, I, at least, have been led to believe that the Toyota sign will be light from within — it will glow red. The only other thing in the stadium that does that is the actual Cubs sign on the back of the bleacher tower.
It will change the way the stadium looks from the outside. It will change the way the sightlines look from the inside.
And the underarmor advertisements on the doors never really bothered me, although I thought it looked kinda dorky.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2010 5:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like the Under Armour doors.
That is a perfectly sensible place to stick a well designed marketing message.
The same can’t be said for the area directly between the backstop and the Horseshoe ad. Its an unintuitive place for a sign, and the sign is ugly.
And i’m all for Lou growing a killer ’stache.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
The Ricketts are not the Tribune Co.
I trust them. If it helps the organization, I refute nothing.
When in Rome we shall do as the Romans, when in Hell we do shots at the bar.
by HolyBlackhawksBatman on May 3, 2010 2:43 PM CDT reply actions
Let's stop the team from getting free $ from advertising....
and while we’re at it…let’s also punch ourselves in the nuts. Both make about the same amount of sense.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions
But puching youself in the nuts is so much more fun. Just think how good it feels
when the pain stops.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I punched a Cashew, and I didn't enjoy it.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
by eths on May 3, 2010 4:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
You first SWL. Make sure you get video of it. Then you can make money off of ads on You Tube.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally it's not a slippery slope- it's a line and it has already been crossed
Wrigley used to be the one ball park that didn’t have ad’s plastered across every visible surface.
It is not so much a distraction issue as an aesthetic and tradition issue.
I think that an unadorned Wrigley is a better place than the nascar logo’d one that we will have in a few years. I miss the bricks without the scrolling sign- I miss the outfield walls and that new citi logo is tacky as all hell.
It is not always about the dough.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
Tradition? TRADITION?
How about our awesome TRADITION of not making the playoffs or getting trounced out in the first round like little bitches? I swear sometimes BLou is right when it comes to the attitude of winning around here.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I want to win
it doesn’t mean I’d sell my soul.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I see....
you want to win “the right way”…..whatever the hell that is. Yes, I just put words in your mouth.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes- get creative, win the right way
Don’t tell me you can’t find creative ways to make the couple mil this sign and all the other little flecks of feces scattered around the field is going to bring in.
seriously- raise every ticket $1 or charge .50c more for beer- people will pay that
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, keep doing that...
beer and tickets are way too cheap. Let’s say you were the owner and decided to actually do this. How many times would you be willing to go back to your customers for more $? And I don’t get the “creative way” thing…there is a ballpark with a ballgame happening inside of it, what creative thing are you gonna do to generate $ outside of tickets/concessions/mechandise/TV-Radio contracts/advertising ? The Cubs Network would be the biggest revenue stream, after some serious investment was done….other than that?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
post a BCB comment stream on a rooftop sign
charge $5 everytime an offensive image is posted= profit
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
oh yeah
and people pay scalpers well above face still- freekin economics
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
because the scaplers HAVE THE TICKETS AND FANS CAN'T GET THEM FROM THE TEAM.
I get that the current price of tickets is below what the market could bear….well, maybe not right now in the current economy, but I get that. Anyway, I guess we just disagree about this sign. I don’t really care if it’s there or not, and If you’re really against it simply because you don’t like the way it looks, then OK…your opinion.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah well
this is not the place for reasonable opinions or arguments- this is a semi-anonymous message board on a fan site! From now on I expect you to act that way. I really expected more from you and I am hella disappointed
/sarcasm
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
they're not related.
it IS possible for people to want to win and to want to keep Wrigley preserved. BLOU is wrong — it IS a museum, in part. that’s what being designated a historical building MEANS.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Can you not SEE that in the year 2010...
keeping Wrigley Field SANITIZED and putting together a Championship team may not be COMPATIBLE? I’m not arguing the stupid “is Wrigley a museum or not” point. Any revenue stream the team can tap that doesn’t come out of the fan’s pockets is a GOOD THING. No?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
The thing is
You can’t really say “anything is a good thing”, it is just not an argument because there is obviously something that would probably cross your personal line.
I love the park and going to the park- even though I know the Cubs are only going to win about 50% of the time if I am lucky. It is BASEBALL, it’s a fun game to attend and I like the park without all the crap.
I am as big a fan as anyone so to all you ‘winning is everything’ knuckleheads I say you have lost perspective. Winning would be nice and it will be awesome when it happens. But this sign and all the other signs honestly are not going to change anything except how I feel a little sadder each year that a new desecration has hit the field.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
We've lost perspective? What color is the sky in your world? Wrigley is not
here to make you feel good about the experience of going to the game. It’s here to house a baseball team. This is a competitive sport. The object is to win. Enjoying the ivy and the scoreboard are byproducts, but enjoying that experience should not come at the expense of fielding a winning baseball team. If money can be generated by adding a little advertising, then so be it. If that additional revenue can go to fielding a better baseball team, then great. My experience of watcing the game at Wrigley won’t be reduced by one iota by that sign. Every time I see it I will remember that more money is going to building a better team. That’s a great experience for me.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
The color of the sky in my world is Purple
Your strange yellow sun gives me the power to become a Cubs Fan Super Hero and I will swoop down and remove all said advertising at Wrigley during this road trip.
I think if you analyze baseball there is only action for like 10 minutes out of a 3 hour game. Plenty of time for me to enjoy the surroundings. Just because you don’t care about it doesn’t mean I don’t or shouldn’t.
I like the atmosphere are Wrigley and around the park. So when someone wants to change it I like to mention that I don’t appreciate it.
The reason why they shouldn’t add ‘a little advertising’ is because it slowly deteriorates part of the park that I like- the part where you get to spend some time not being assaulted by ads ads ads.
Just raise ticket prices or charge more for parking or tack a .25c tax on beer for historic preservation or charge for internet access or something….
I have not purchased any under armour, nor played with the CBOE and I have stopped using my citibank card.
I am not making a big deal here or trying to start a boycott, I am just saying that I personally think it is annoying an I don’t support those companies that piss on my stadium with their ads.
Love-
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
The reason why they shouldn’t add ‘a little advertising’ is because it slowly deteriorates part of the park that I like- the part where you get to spend some time not being assaulted by ads ads ads.
The part that falls down on your head?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
no the parts without the ads
ads are usually ugly and distracting- it is kind of the point of an ad to distract you.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 4, 2010 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions
What I disagree with is the premise that lack of revenue sources
is why the Cubs haven’t won. The Tribune Co made buckets of money over the term of their ownership.
Now, because the Trib only did the required maintenance to keep Wrigley going, the facility is in need of an overhaul. If it didn’t generate revenue, like the bleacher expansion, the Trib didn’t do it.
The team is now in need of new revenue sources to pay for the Wrigley renovation.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on May 3, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
...
Any revenue stream the team can tap that doesn’t come out of the fan’s pockets is a GOOD THING. No?
No. Seriously. NO.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
who is asking to keep Wrigley "sanitized"?
This “discussion” is the same as every other discussion with you. There’s never any middle ground.
Like AJS, I am not against signs at Wrigley. I do not like THIS sign.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll make a note of that.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Prove they aren't
I really do not think that foregoing the $5-10 million in annual revenue from signage is what is holding us back from winning a world series. Our payroll is not going to pass the Yankees if we get this signage. The idea that we have to make a choice between preserving Wrigley and winning a world series is just plain dumb.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter. That's not why people don't like it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
People aren't doing a cost/benefit analysis?
I don’t like the sign, but if you told me it would generate an extra $10 million in revenue I would be ok with it. $2 million and I don’t think its worth it.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing a majority of people aren't crunching numbers over this and are just basing opinion on the visual aspects.
Most of the objections here have been over the appearance of the sign.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, that's silly
Any change to the ballpark should be evaluated by relative to the amount of revenue that it brings in. Ugly + significant source of revenue, ok in my book. Ugly with no signficiant revenue increase, not ok. I think this is ugly and until I hear how much revenue it brings in I can’t fully evaluate whether or not it is worth it. For $2 million annually, I say its not worth it.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
1 problem with this...
just because you think it’s ugly doesn’t necessarily make it so.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Um...isn't this whole thread about opinion
We are giving our opinion on whether we like the sign. My position is that it depends on how much revenue it brings in as compared to how ugly the sign is. So, yes in my personal calculation if I think the sign is ugly, it is.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions
So do you care to re-approach your quarrel with my view then?
My objection is over the appearance of the sign – but i could be bought off.
I did the cost/benefit, and in my mind, Grabow level money isn’t solving our problems on the field, so the on the field justification is pointless.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions
No, I still think you're being a big baby about this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 4, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, it's a museum, but there is still a baseball team playing there. It's not just by
accident that ball games are played there 81 times a year. The interest of the team winning has to come first. As long as it’s not cutting down the ivy and putting up “Heavenly Bodies!” signs on the walls, what’s the big deal. Whether the sign is ugly or not is a matter of opinion. It certainly won’t transform Wrigley into a raging eyesore.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
of course.
It certainly won’t transform Wrigley into a raging eyesore.
That is also a matter of opinion.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
whups. meant that to be
It certainly won’t transform Wrigley into a raging eyesore.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You are right. It's a matter of opinion and opinions vary.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a ballpark... and tradition went out the flippin' window
on August 8th 1988 when the lights got put in and turned on.
The ONLY reason it didn’t happen before that was cause PKW donated the steel for the supports for the war effort during WWII…
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I can see points on both sides of this issue for sure
Except when you start off with I swear sometimes…ugh can’t even type what follows. I just got sick in my mouth.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, unadorned is gone.
Change is inevitable. So far the ads now seen at Wrigley have been done very tastefully in my opinion. I actually think the Under Armour signs look good in the outfield. I was at Wrigley last week and enjoyed the “minimalist” feel to the ads.
I’m ok with how it’s been handled so far and feel good about the Rickett’s leadership. Bottom line, I want a winner on that darn field, my feelings for Wrigley are very secondary to that.
That koolaide turned my tongue blue.
by BleedsbluinMI on May 3, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
How about a giant Old Style can sign?
Please?
"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."
Harry Caray 1920-1998
"How could Jorge Orta lose the ball in the sun, he's from Mexico."
HE'S IN!!!!!!
by Ron Trauma on May 3, 2010 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Yes!
I love non-game days after a win
"They come to see me strike out, hit a home run, or run into a fence. I try to accommodate them at least one way every game." - Gorman Thomas
by RiskyBusiness on May 3, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd
Now THIS is an idea I can get completely behind in boosting payroll.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions
rec'd
Less money but it’s Old Style
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
I was one who was against the sign...
…but Mr. Rickett’s letter changed my mind a little. As long as we win a WS I don’t care if we have a picture of HWSNBN in left field.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
um...there is a line here...
and that crosses it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
ha
How uncomfotable would Al be out there in left. Everytime Pujols puts one on the street and have to turn around and see a big blown up picture of his boy.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
What if everytime he was hit with a homerun
He’d yell that the ball was racist?
How about something like the apple for Mets games?
Every time a Cub homers, a larger than life HWSNBN pops up in the LF bleachers and over the PA, we hear, “Homer! WOO! Homer! WOO!”
(Note to the Ricketts’ and Crane Kenney – if you are reading this, it is a joke. Ronnie Woo is extremely annoying and no marketing should be developed around him.)
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2010 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Big fuss/Small amount of money
$3 M over 2 years I read from Toyota. that won’t buy a decent reliever in today’s market.
The Cubs are about max’ed out until they start their own TV network and they’re stymied by long-term deals Tribune made with Comcast, WGN, etc. They could do Jumbotron for all I care but let’s do big deals, not small potatos. Wrigley needs massive improvements in upper deck and all over, really; there a ton of bad/obstructed view seats and unless you’re lucky to be able to afford the good, overpriced seats, it’s no bargain these days. They’ve about tapped out on ticket prices unless they keep making playoffs.
Someone wrote something wise somewhere a while back: Trib should have bought up a lot of the neighboring buildings long ago to give control over the surrounding "neighborhood.’’ To try to do so now would cost a lot more than when Trib took over in early ’80s. But they were not in the real estate business, per se.
"
So, adding 50 cents
to the price of every ticket would offset the the unpleasantness of the Toyata sign? I would gladly pay the increase.
"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - #14
yep agreed
probably less than 50c for most tickets
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
How many games do you go to?
$40 more for a season? On top of this year’s silent 12% increase for amusement tax?How far do you go with the pocketbook?
Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher; DNP - Sparky Anderson's decision
well I hit about
35 games a year
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
oh yeah
and the ‘increase’ was not taxes- they just separated out their costs and the taxes for the first time.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Um the 12% amusement tax was NOT an increase
The Cubs just made a really, really bad decision to separate it from the ticket price which it had previously been included in to point out how high it was. This totally backfired and made people believe initially that ticket prices had gone DOWN or to those first timers less than they appeared to be. Prices were raised on the boxes, bleachers , terrace and upper deck remained the same with the 12% put in a separate column. Prices for most seats did in fact increase but not because of the tax, but because the Cubs moved a dozen or more games from the gold level to the platinum.
Worth noting that I went on a bit of rage on the tax thing when it first came up and Al & Ballhawk told me I was crazy.
Trust me people are livid and confused over it. Next year they need to fix it by putting the WHOLE PRICE first and THEN having a column showing how much of it goes to the city in tax.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 3, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for recapping that sweetheart.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
That was nice, wasn't it sugar?
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions
To clarify
Prices were raisded across the board on Box seats. Bleacher, Terrace Seats, & most of the upper deck were not raised on the price but the cost went up because more games were moved to the highest priced level.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 3, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
6 of one half dozen of another
However they want to ‘present it’ as a tax increase or a pricing level increase- it still amounts to me paying more for my tickets. They removed the taxes pretty much as administrative sleight of hand.
Bottom line: ticket prices went up 18-20% this year.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 4, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
This is much to do about NOTHING
I will support the Ricketts 1000% on this issue. So too will the vast majority of Cub fans. It’s about the winning. It is NOT about Wrigley Field, at least among those of us who aren’t card carrying members of the Luvable Loser Society. You want ivy an purity and all that other babble, then go to the Chicago Botanical Gardens. But even there you will find advertisement and sponsorship plaques every 3 feet.
Those who want to think of Wrigley as some sort of museum shall be permitted to bring their guitars to the street corner of Clark & Addison and strike up a chord of Save the Whales adjusted to Wrigley Field.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
this might be more of a vendetta then anything...
between two grown men who are having a difference of opinion and who both carry big sticks.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
My thoughts exactly.
And his opinion above is nothing more than his usual troll message.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
My question is when someone hits the Toyota logo will smoke come out of it?
will they get a car too?
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 3, 2010 3:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Hit logo win car.
Hit Toyota win Mt. Fuji.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
As long as Ricketts is willing to drive said car.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Recall...
Will they recall the sign if too many homeruns are hit at a faster rate toward the Toyota sign?
A Cub fan in Cardinal territory.
by FSArkCubsFan on May 3, 2010 5:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I obviously don't care one way or the other but...
As you know, Major League ballparks have historically relied on in-park signage to generate revenue
Then what do those ticket sales count as?
"I'm always insistent, Wodehouse. But I'm not to be trusted, am I?"
It just seems to me that, when the Cubs sell a bit over 3.1 million tickets last season at an average price in the neighborhood of $50 a ticket, it seems silly to talk about how they have to rely on a few million dollars over the next few years to generate revenue.
"I'm always insistent, Wodehouse. But I'm not to be trusted, am I?"
Other than the fact that the new owners have a metric assload of debt to service...
and a payroll north of 140 million dollars in player contracts alone…yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
And?
That doesn’t really change anything to do with revenue. Now, if you’re talking profit, okay, but they rely on ticket sales and concessions to make far more than advertising ever is likely to.
"I'm always insistent, Wodehouse. But I'm not to be trusted, am I?"
GREED!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
The team had $239 million in revenue last year.
If it can bring them $2 million a year as rumored, that’s just under a 1% increase in revenue – which may seem small, but is something no business of any size would ignore.
FWIW, The team’s value is around $700 million, of which about $150 million is Wrigley Field itself.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I'm sure it's been discussed before,
but I wonder what percentage of that goes into the revenue sharing pool?
also would be curious to see what the EBIT numbers were last year. That would probably tell the story on what kind of financial shape the organization is in.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
THIS.
I direct your attention to any vintage photo from the 1950s or earlier. The norm at most ballparks was advertising covering most of the outfield fences, the scoreboard, rooftops across the street visible from the stands, and just about any other practical location. Maybe if today’s ads were as quaint as those from a couple generations ago, people would mind less.
Yankees suck.
by Steaming Pile on May 3, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
NOT Wrigley
who cares about other parks- this is about Wrigley Field
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
What is Wrigley …
charming, quaint, nostalgic, a shrine, the way baseball should be viewed.
What Wrigley is not: state of the art, comfortable, convenient, a revenue generator.
I love Wrigley, but I love the Cubs more, and would sacrifice the sanctity of the park for a WS. That said, the more revenue generating ads, and more bolt-on gimmicks that are added to the park, the less charming, quaint, and shrine-like it becomes. So, if Wrigley can’t be kept Wrigley-like than why stay at Clark and Addison?
If we can’t compete any other way (and I don’t believe that to be true), then I would rather move to suburbs with a brand new state of the art, big revenue generating, stadium, then turn Wrigley into a circus by adding gaudy signs, having the neighbors build skyscrapers to see games, adding triangle buildings and and Captain Morgan bolt-ons -- all make Wrigley just another ballpark.
"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - #14
i disagree on the revenue generator
Wrigley is the biggest tourist attraction in the midwest
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions
stats?
Wrigley’s +AWESOMENESSSTAT = +100000000
Wrigley’s FunOverReplacementPark = +10000000000000000
how about allegories instead?
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 3, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Obviously, the owner
thinks that is not enough and needs to have it generate more revenue. What he doesn’t understand is the more he makes it generate more revenue, the less attractive he make it.
"The Cubs are due in sixty-two." - #14
Navy Pier.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I won't argue the money
because I don’t know the figures, but when I lived in New York and Ohio, I had no idea there was such a place as Navy Pier. But I’ve know about Wrigley field since I was five years old.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure the link was attendance number (from 2005) with navy pier at 8 million and the cubs at around 4.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
didn't even click it.
that wasn’t my point. :D
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Dammit. My sense are slow.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Use the Force young Jedi Knight.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Wrigley > Navy Pier > Arch
Seriously the 3M number is just Cubs attendance. What about tours and people who don’t go into the park. I’m sure Navy Pier counts everyone who drives by on LSD or takes the bike path as visiting.
I would also not be upset if Navy Pier or the Arch suddenly disappeared.
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 4, 2010 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Note
I have added a poll on this topic to the right sidebar. Please vote.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Or die?
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
by Schwa on May 3, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
With Toyota putting up the sign at Wrigley
and BP getting involved with the stupid crosstown trophy, one has to wonder why Massey Energy (the coal mining folks) hasn’t gotten involved with our favorite team. The Cubs seem to be the go-to destination for screw-up companies with unimaginable PR nightmares.
I understand that the Arizona Tourist Board is trying to contact the Cubs as we speak.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 3, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I consider myself a traditionalist, but I have no problem witht the sign
I think it is ugly and I wish they would design a better one but if it covers the cost of a middle reliever or just Maddux’s greens fees when he is on the road for the Cubs fine with me.
I actually wish they could design something to totally obstruct the Horseshoe Casino sign without running into landmark issues.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
I sort of suspect anything that would TOTALLY obstruct the Horseshoe sign...
… would also block enough of the view for some rooftop viewers that it’d be breaking the Cubs contract with them.
At least, i HOPE that is the reason they are designing it as a outline of the logo and not a billboard. If they are choosing to do so when they have the option of doing otherwise, i’m not sure why Toyota is going along with it.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
Middle reliever
So to pay for a John Grabow, or someone equivalent, it’s worth the further defling of Wrigley? Not to me.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Um hopefully someone better
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 3, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Got that right.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
So much ado about a dinky sign.
"I mean, if we can’t take Colvin after the spring he’s had, something is wrong," -- Lou
why are people making such a big deal out of this?
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
How long have you been around BCB?
We’re good at three things….
1. Overreacting
2. Making Big Deals out of Things
3. I forget number 3….but it’s not really that big of a deal.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
no, that's not it.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
You guise are both WRONG.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
{bitch}{bitch}{bitch}{complain}{complain}{complain}
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
by eths on May 3, 2010 5:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
DFA the sign!
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"dinky sign"
The ado about this “dinky” sign is that it’s much more obtrusive than the signs already at the ballpark. In fact, it ranks right up there with the old Budweiser and Bud Light signs that the Tribune put under the scoreboard in the mid-80s. Both this sign and those detract from the Wrigley experience in a crucial way asthetically, in that no matter where you sit (excepting the bleachers), the sign is a part of the scenery.
Many people don’t appreciate asthetics, and that’s why they’re here arguing that the sign is no big deal. But to those who do, and who agree with Al that stepping into Wrigley Field and looking out at the ivy-covered walls and scoreboard is a memorable, unique experience, this sign is a problem.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Obtrusive? It doesn't block anyone's view (from inside the park).
Now we’re upset because the sign will ruin the postcard worthy picture we want to take?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Now we’re upset because the sign will ruin the postcard worthy picture we want to take?
FIRE RICKETTS MY PICTURES RUINED
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes.
Now we are upset because they are affixing ugly to something that is widely perceived as beautiful.
Scarlett Johansson could probably make a lot of money by tattooing TOYOTA across her upper chest, but that doesn’t mean she should.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
i doubt 1 ad will turn the rainbow that is wrigley into a giant turd
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
And i don't think anybody has claimed that.
There are shades of gray.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
She should tattoo it on her forehead
to cover up that giant boulder of a zit or whatever that is. I’m sorry, but I demand absolute perfection from my unattainable Hollywood pin-ups.
"One of the things I like about baseball is that between innings you can go to the restroom.'' ~Manny Acta.
Exactly
Yes – because it will ruin the picture postcard. Not because it blocks anyone’s view. It doesn’t.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Good comparison, Andrew
I was trying to think of a similar one, but with a building. I mean, you’d never see people in Paris put a big ad right above the Arc de Triomphe (although long ago they did put an ad on the Eiffel Tower).
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
The good thing is
Even if the Ricketts uglify the park (and don’t think this Toyota sign is the end of it, it’s only the beginning), at least what theyr’e doing can be undone, just as the Tribune eventually removed the Bud and Bud Light signs.
I’ll say this for the Trib – most of what they did at Wrigley (especially the lights and the upper deck pressbox) was done in a manner that was asthetically appropriate for the ballpark. I hope the Ricketts family will follow suit, though this strikes me as a bad sign (no pun intended).
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
The Eiffel Tower is UGLY.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone watch F1?
How about utilizing modern technology and superimposing ads around the park for TV like they do in F1 and other European sporting events? That way those of us at the ballpark wouldn’t have to stare at the ugly advertisements, but those watching on the tube would see them.
Jack
derv
@themightycub
You don't have to stare at the ugly advertisements that are in Wrigley now.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, but they could put up as many as they wanted...
…I bet it is written somewhere that virtual signs will not be allowed in MLB
Jack
derv
@themightycub
virtual signs
Are blacked out in a majority of US states and Guam. No one in Iowa would ever see these signs.
Then tell you what
How about you cut the Ricketts’ family a $2.5 million check each year for however long the Toyota sign is in existence. EIther that or send the check directly to the banks across the world that they used to finance the heavy debt load they took on.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
how pretty are the checks?
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Got a big pic of Toyota embossed on them.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont know
not pretty enough to be cashed imo
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Here goes the arguing thing.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Number 3 is a huge damned deal!
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
its a sign
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Is this design finalized?
I would think that the final ones they put up would be mounted different when they finally do it. Also aren’t the contracts they have with the rooftops all on the right field side.
I dont have a bit of problen with the sign, but i do think it would look better if they just put up a billboard. Plus, the contract is only for 2 years right?, well it will eventually be someone else buying that space.
None of it bothers me, call me when they name the park Toyota field.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
That would make our city the Toyota Town
Since we already have Toyota Park…(which apart from the parking lot is pretty state-of-the-art and comfortable, and doesnt distract from the game…)
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The parking lot is comfortable as long as you don't try to stop in it.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I probably should keep mouth shut,
seeing as how I haven’t been to Wrigley for more than 30 years.
Firstly, I don’t like this sign from an aesthtic point of view.
Secondly, I wonder which aspect of the sign is most interesting for Toyota? Is the people in the park or the TV viewers. If it is the TV audience, then a virtual sign (or signs) might be worth looking into. With tracking heads on the cameras, and zoom and focus sensors, a system such as VizRT should be able to do decent job of inserting virtual signage. We have done similar things at work, in the past.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
by eths on May 3, 2010 4:57 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
TV
It will always be visible from the 1B camera.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 3, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep, and a lot of home runs on highlight reels.
I am pretty dang sure part of the reason the Horseshoe Casion ad angers Ricketts so much is that it is a spot many viewers will see during the season, during the games and a lot of highlight reels.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
If it means anything at all....(small sample size warning)...
as of the time of this post the poll on the front page shows about a 3:1 ratio in favor or not caring about the sign. So you 33.3333% of naysayers need to get your “PUT THE BREAKS ON THE TOYOTA SIGN” campaign fundraisers going post haste.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 5:06 PM CDT reply actions
I suspect a lot of those people voting don't understand just how little money this will bring in.
Everybody in the pro camp keeps framing this as if it’ll renovate Wrigley and bring us a world series – just like the Red Sox!
In that light, it all sounds good. And as i’ve stated, repeatedly, i’m not against more ads or any other form of modernizing Wrigley. It’s just, this particular one is done for the wrong reasons, in the wrong place, with too little an effect on the bottom line to justify it.
If you are going to put something up, put up a Jumbotron that’ll bring in many times the revenue. At least it’s ugly will buy something above replacement level on the field, or something more than one fifth of a basic cleanup to Wrigley.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
I suspect a lot of those people voting aren't basing their vote on $.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
What other reasons would there be in favor of it then?
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it partially blocks the dillweed's rooftop casino sign and believe it or not....
some people my even LIKE the way the sign looks. Also roughly 1/3rd of voters simply don’t care, so they don’t even have a reason for voting.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that if Toyota was to put the sign up for free...
the vast majority would be against it though. If it weren’t for the Cubs getting money (little as it is) I’d be against it.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
It has nothing to do with the way the casino sign looks,
baseball does not want any association with gambling. I may be wrong, but I would guess no MLB team, or any professional team for that matter, has a casino sponsor.
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Well I'm wrong.. apparently over just the last couple years,
casino sponsorships are becoming the next big thing.
You can't win in the postseason unless you can manufacture runs. - Hall of Fame 2B Joe Morgan
Milwaukee Brewers...
… Pottawatomie Bingo Casino ads inside the stadium.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
You're just looking to disagree with any viewpoint here.
And I hate it when you make me laugh or put up facts to support that. Life ain’t fair. Grumble.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a ballpark, not a museum
And I will repeat myself in infamous Blou fashion….the mamby pambys who bitch most about the metamorphisis happening at Wrigley are very often peoople who rarely if ever get to a ballgame at the park AND who populate the same crowd that insist winning isn’t everything.
I’ve been going to Wrigley since 1977. I love Wrigley, but I’m also man enough to admit the ballpark is vastly overrated AND woefully inadequate in many respects compared to state-of-the-art parks I have been at across the country. I support the Ricketts 1000% in their endeavor to wring more money out of the ballpark and to methodically renovating the joint. If Ricketts wants to sell the naming rights to the Kotex people, then I don’t give a rat’s ass. If he wants to put up a Jumbotron, then I would be happy has hell. This isn’t 1910 folks.
And yes, I’ve plunked thousands of my dollars down on Cubs tickets over the years to have an opinion that I shall defend. So count this as a preemptive pounding of sand to all you mamby pamby naysayers. You are in the extreme minority.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
I agree with you in just about everything you just said except
saying Wrigley is overrated and woefully inadequate. Absolutely not. Wrigley I only get to see games there a couple times a year and get the same feeling every time I walk into the park. I don’t get that at PNC, a “state-of-the-art” park. Don’t take things for granted just because you get to see more games there.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Vastly overrated?
Wrigley is far from overrated. Ask any visiting team fan or for that matter anyone across the country who has been to Wrigley and they will tell you that it is one of the few places that lives up to the hype. There is a shortlist of places in sports that are as wonderful as Wrigley. I heard a national commentator say the other day that his list was: Fenway, Wrigley, and the Masters. That’s it. This one sign is not the worst thing in the world, but it’s crossing a line, and once you cross that line its hard to go back. I know that is a slippery slope argument, but here the argument is fair.
by JSB on May 3, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
...ask any visiting team about the clubhouse.
Let’s see if they’re so enthusiatic about Wrigley Field.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
the team lockers*
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
who cares what visiting teams think.?
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions
What about the Cubs?
Are they too happy about the clubhouse THEY have?
The point is, the cubs will need money to have better amenities for the players, the fans and even opposing teams. Yes, we want this to be a shrine, but it’s 2010, and I have to believe that it’s time we made it state-of-the-art and up to date like other ballparks. That would TRULY make our park the best in the world.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
it's already
being taken care of.
Once again, most of us aren’t simply blindly opposed to signs. THIS sign is different. It crosses a line that has not been crossed before, and it will significantly change the look of the bleachers.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Wait, so there's a "Sign Line?"
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
derp derp derp
this is the first sign that changes the sight-line of the bleachers. It’s silly to think there won’t be more. A ribbon board doesn’t do that. Advertisements on the outfield doors don’t do that.
I recognize that some people don’t care. That’s fine, I suppose. But I do care, and I think I have valid reasons to do so.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 8:25 PM CDT up reply actions
i think this sign is ugly
signs are ok maybe just not this design
ribbon boards are evil annoying and i would rather have a hundred ugly signs than a ribbon board.
stopped reading
at the incorrect “fact” in the subject line…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with BLou
What is wrong with extra revenue? They won’t turn Wrigley into a Chase Field, you know. Apart from the fact that most of the beloved parts of the stadium have landmark status, I can imagine most people will raise hell if they try to implement more obnoxious advertising. Not to mention Tom Ricketts is still an actual FAN, and understands the importance of Wrigley and its traditions. He’s not gunna let it happen to it, so, yeah, no need to be afraid in that respect.
A LO PROFUNDOOO...NOO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NOO...DIGALE QUE NO A ESA PELOTA!! GANAN LOS CACHORROS DE CHICAGO!!
by Azul Cachorro on May 3, 2010 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I really like this new "mamby pambys". Please stick with it!
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Great, I'm surprised you don't wrap yourself in the flag as a way to justify another troll post.
Blah blah blah insult blah blah blah wimps blah blah blah you other fans are (insert insult here)blah blah blah. I hate feeding attention hogs.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
But you’re so good at it.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I practiced in the offseason.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I Naysayer Say Nay to the chief Naysayer
A note to everyone: if BLOU is on your side then you are probably in the wrong…. Just a general observation
Definitive Answers to Impossible Questions What baseball team did A. Lincoln support?
by Andre Fonseca on May 4, 2010 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
My, what a broad brush you have.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
So much
mishegass over a sign. The Cubs are winning. I respect the opinions, but too much angst going on here about this topic. It’s just a sign. (Sigh.)
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 3, 2010 5:45 PM CDT reply actions
For everyone livid about the sign
I find the various rooftop clubs far more disturbing than the sign. I grew up when PEOPLE stood on the roofs and watched the games. People WHO LIVED in the buildings and their friends. Now you have a bunch of ugly metal stadium seating on the roofs all over except for the one wonderful landlord who does not do it. For some reason people often think this is part of Wrigley tradition and it is not. The Cubs negotiated to get their cut years ago, but I would have been much happier if they put up something to block the views of any built up seating on the roofs.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 3, 2010 5:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I think those rooftop bleachers are awesome...
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 3, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
There were rooftop grandstands in 1908, on the Taylor Street buildings beyond right field.
Cubs owner Charles “Chubby” Murphy didn’t like all those “bugs,” as fans were sometimes called back then, watching his games for free, or whatever they paid the owners of the buildings across the alley. So he built huge “spite” billboards above the existing lower billboard and made right field really ugly, IMO. But he was successful in blocking those views!
One of Lee Elia's 15%
Wish the Trib had done that.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 3, 2010 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions
The post about fans doing the wave at Wrigley
That action is way more offensive to me than any ad placed in the ballpark.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 3, 2010 5:55 PM CDT reply actions
Personally I think think Wrigley is beautiful and historic
but also a monument to bad baseball. So for that, I have no serious attachment. I don’t really care what they have to do to help build a winning organization as long as they do it responsibly. If they can do so by keeping some of the features that make Wrigley special then all the better. I would doubt that the people of Boston would trade their championships to get the ads off the outfield walls.
by Mapmaker on May 3, 2010 5:57 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
No but to be the devil's advocate...
..in doing so they would have already known they won a WS. This Toyota sign doesn’t guarantee a banner.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
not that I'm against it.
United we stand and united we'll fall......down on our knees the day we win it all!
by Bricks and Ivy on May 3, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
And it doesn't make Ernie Banks cry either.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Make this green !!!
Wrigley IS INDEED a monument to bad baseball. I would personally drive a bulldozer through the ivy if it means ONE World Series Championship. And like you said, go ask Red Sox fans what they love most - there two World Series Championships or Fenway Park.
Baseball is a sport. And baseball is a bottom line business, where the focus is to turn a profit while hopefully becoming a consistent World Series contender. If you want a museum, then Chicago is blessed with some of the finest in the world.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
Baseball is a sport?
Wow…we’re learning so much from these troll posts.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
In my experience,
Red Sox fans like lording their World Series titles over people who aren’t Red Sox fans. Is this an option?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno
Cubs fans lording a World Series title over people who aren’t Red Sox fans seems somewhat inappropriate…
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
And it's something I can't do when we win.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
This from Tom Ricketts' letter
In our case, we have asked for one sign in the outfield.
Now, I like Ricketts and I’m inclined to believe his sincerity when he talks about ways to improve the team and bring home a championship. However I’m reluctant to believe that the Toyota sign will be the only sign in the outfield. I think this one will be a test case, and once all the results are in and the bugs are worked out then more outfield signage across the top of the bleachers will follow.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
If the Cubs win the World Series
Will anyone even notice that sign? Or for that matter in 6 months win or lose, will anyone notice the sign?
what sign?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 3, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I wont, but I certainly wont credit the SIGN for the win either!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 3, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
$2.5 million as a percent of their revenue is too low to make all the effort they're going through worth it.
This being Chicago, there’s more to this than just one sign bringing in a few bucks. Their lawyers could make enough arguing this to erase the income.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
plus like I said before,
I think Toyota is in a predicament that they would agree to any kind of advertisement in the park that Ricketts wanted.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Which goes back to why would the Cubs want to give such a prominent, unique ad position
to a company whose public image is in the toilet?
One of Lee Elia's 15%
Exactly....
Nobody cares about your fantasy baseball team
by carmen_fanzone on May 4, 2010 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions
What do you mean,
“If the Cubs win the World Series”
Don’t you mean “When the Cubs win the World Series”?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions
There wasnt such a thing as blogs in 88
but could you imagine the responses if there was when the lights were going up. I dont care if we play in the sun or dark or if there are no ads or littered with them. Just want to see baseball, preferably winning baseball.
"Baseball is ninety percent mental. The other half is physical." -Yogi Berra
I think the majority of people opposed to lights lived in the area
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I was opposed to the lights and didn't live in the area
because, admittedly, I was, and am, a traditionalist when it comes to Wrigley Field. The difference here is that the lights were done well. Way better than I expected and so I was won over by a design success story. The Toyota sign is nowhere close to a design success. It’s a political game and the only success in this will be a political success.
One of Lee Elia's 15%
by waiting4cubs on May 3, 2010 6:32 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Politcal game?
Horsecrap. It’s about maximizing revenue opportunities. It’s a business, period. If you don’t like it, then find a way to send a $2.5 million check to the Ricketts’ family each year to compensate for the lost revenue of the sign. Toyota is willing to pay $2.5 million a year to have PROMINENT signage. There is ZERO wrong with the sign as proposed. It will not diminish my experience at Wrigley one friggin iota. And I’m at the ballpark 15 to 20 times a year.
The Blackhawks and the Stanley Cup in 2010.
TURN THIS GREEN
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Well said.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
We should start a group on Facebook...
“I will NOT buy a Toyota because they defaced my favorite ballpark” and see how many fans we get. Is that the kind of publicity Toyota wants?
yeah!
thatll show em!
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I MSO ANGRY!
IM GONNA GO PLAY SOME FARMVILLE
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
by jesus christos on May 3, 2010 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions
OK !!!!! MAkE SURE YOU gET ADAM LiND 2!
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
Personally, I wish balance to be brought to the Force
I appreciate the Ricketts family decision to do what they feel they need to do to protect their interests and make some money as well, although I personally think they should have stiffed Toyota for a whole lot more than the trifling 2.5 million. Heck how much salary is that really going to help the club payroll with? Really?
However, if they’re going to allow a soulless, ethically suspect corporate collective to advertise for peanuts at one of the most televised and viewed venues of professional sport, then they ought to allow a true hometown business we all know some special rates to bring advertising balance to the mammon raising:
I’m deadly serious. Look at where the sign is. It ain’t going to bother no one .. and it sets off the lopsided signage symmetry.
Otherwise, look what could happen in the future, a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away ..
Don’t let this happen, Mr. Ricketts! PUT THIS WALL UP!
Blue mountains high .. Blue valleys low
I don't know which way we shall go ..
One summer dream .. one summer dream ..
coda
ELO, 1975
by cubnational on May 3, 2010 8:29 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I wonder if the Ricketts placed that sign
so that the roof deliberately reads “Arseshoe”
"I mean, if we can’t take Colvin after the spring he’s had, something is wrong," -- Lou
lol
I didn’t notice that.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 3, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I was gonna post that having seen it earlier in the thread.
I would not be surpised, in fact I don’t believe it’s an accident at all.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
HAHAHAHA!!!!!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions
YES! REC'D.
I don’t know where you found the Jewel Osco ad, but i was seriously considering mocking something like it up.
So much less disruptive. I wish it was left or right a bit more to line up with the stairs (yes, alignment of elements means something to me – i get that not everybody cares), but the fact that it is a solid element in a standard billboard size makes it MUCH less distracting.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Things I don't like about Wrigley Field:
the lights
under armor ads
toyota sign
the extra retired numbers (should be just Banks and Williams)
… so that makes basically everything that has been added on since I started going. I view every one of these as a chink in the armor, or things that dilute the Wrigley experience. I am a native Wisconsinite who has adopted the team only because of the idyllic palace of yesteryear that they play in. I only care about the Cubs someday winning the pennant so I can attend a WS game in this environment. I used to pray they could hold off on the lights to force a WS day game but that is now water under the bridge.
Things about Wrigley I could give a rat's ass about:
urinal troughs
lack of replays
long lines
falling concrete
(alleged) rats
… none of these things hurt the experience. They are all just targets of the Cub haters who want to see Wrigley Field torn down simply because it is a great and unique aspect of the team, and quite frankly a source of jealously to fans of other teams. The Cubs have been my #1 favorite sports team my entire life but if they moved to US Cellular or into a modern stadium of any kind I would probably stop caring about them entirely.
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 3, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I am a native Wisconsinite who has adopted the team only because of the idyllic palace of yesteryear that they play in. I only care about the Cubs someday winning the pennant so I can attend a WS game in this environment.
The Cubs have been my #1 favorite sports team my entire life but if they moved to US Cellular or into a modern stadium of any kind I would probably stop caring about them entirely.
So you’re saying you aren’t really a fan of the Cubs but of Wrigley Field? Or rather the Cubs in Wrigley Field?
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Thought the same thing about the post.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Umm...
How about…I pull for the team because I want to see them rock the stadium? I follow them home or away as part of the pursuit of a world series run? Is that disingenuous? I also like the uniforms if that helps.
by Jerry Mumphrey on May 3, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
They weren’t my words.
You said you only care about the Cubs and the Cubs winning because of Wrigley. Then you said if they moved into a modern stadium you would probably stop caring about them.
If the Cubs for some reason had to play all their games in a high school stadium I would still care about them.
I love Wrigley and I love its tradition but as far as my liking the Cubs it’s the place where the Cubs play and not the sole thing that defines the team.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
Also I want to comment on what a joke it is to notion that an extra few million in revenue will buy a better team.
If you haven’t noticed, this team gets worse with the more money they spend.
No fair bringing up valid points.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you have a blog I could subscribe to?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Yep, because a 2% increase in revenue is absolutely a waste of time to acquire.
You people need to take a business course before you claim things like 2% “wont make a difference”
It'll make a difference.
I said in another comment its something no business owner should ignore.
But to be fair, that isn’t what the cubs are getting… its much closer to 1%. $2.5 million added to $240 million in revenue in 2009.
And IMHO, that 1% won’t buy anything worth THIS particular ugly sign.
Dum spiro spero... | Follow me on twitter or else: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 4, 2010 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
without reading 400 comments
those who want to say that the Ricketts need to open their pockets, without raising ticket prices a lot, need to relax and let it be. this is not the first ad to come to Wrigley, and wont be the last
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Castro Blocker Fan Club
Interesting and bizarre call on a double play in the Cards game tonight.
Even the Card’s broadcaster said they caught a break on the interference call…and Hrabowsky is such a homer I have to believe it’s true. The runner was not away much from the line.
"Everything has an end, except a sausage, which has two."
by Sandberg's evil twin on May 3, 2010 10:03 PM CDT reply actions
If Ricketts is indeed sending a message to the roof advertisers
then may I suggest a different ad campaign:
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
by EalyEagle on May 3, 2010 10:10 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
turn that Green people!
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
by cooliogirl47 on May 3, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I looks like that sign is giving use the...
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
If it was just about the Horseshoe sign
They could always put up one of those PSA signs…
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
by Endrick on May 3, 2010 10:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
LSA?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 3, 2010 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
or maybe get Budweiser back in there...
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I can see the pictures of the frat boys posing with giant mugs under the neck now
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
yeah... but how is this any different than
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
Damned posting fail...
How is this any different than the bleachers are now? lol
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
And I can see many a drunken co-ed straddling the bottle
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
And I can see Ballhawk below waiting to catch them should they happen to fall. Or atleast that’s where I would be.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
But he would have to be renamed Chickhawk
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
You're gonna need a bigger glove.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 4, 2010 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
do you like soup?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 4, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions
While I don't think the Toyota sign is "very pretty," it could be much, much worse.
Now just imagine something like one of these going up in Wrigley Field.
I’d rather see the Toyota sign.
"A waist is a terrible thing to mind." - Terry 'Fat Tub of Goo' Forster
I don't see how the Toyota sign
is any different from this sign (going back to the whole Fenway thing). When I took the tour in 2008, this sign was ridiculously big and only fit in because underneath it is a party area that they built.
"You just don't know understand how frustrating this is"- Kevin Borseth
What's the big deal?
While part of the experience of being a Cubs fan is Wrigley Field, the real enjoyment comes from the club itself. How many on this board root for the Cubs from outside the Chicago area? Are they any less fans because they do not experience Wrigley Field multiple times during the season? I don’t think so.
A number of my friends are Sox fans (I try to be open-minded and accepting of everyone) and they are constantly telling me people who go to Cubs games just go to see the ballpark and drink – they really don’t care about the game. This whole debate reminds me of those conversations.
So they want to put up a sign. What’s the big deal?
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living. ~Alvin Dark
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
I'm somewhat amused
because part of my love for the Cubs was built as a kid watching games on WGN, and seeing Wrigley field on my television.
Forget all that other stuff. I gotta believe.
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
How about the wave – what’s the big deal about doing the wave? Doesn’t impact the players on the field. Shouldn’t lessen the enjoyment of anyone watching the game, unless you’re going to bitch about the 2 seconds when the people in front of you stand up. Views get momentarily blocked all the time at games (unless you’re in the front row). At least this is predictable – you can tell when the person in front of you is going to stand, and if it’s at a crucial point in the game, well, you can stand too.
And how about those blue jerseys – what’s the big deal about them? Again, no impact on the players on the field and shouldn’t lessen the enjoyment of anyone watching the game.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ballhawk's true identity:
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2010 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Because the wave is stupid.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living. ~Alvin Dark
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
How could I possibly top an argument like that? I concede, Mr. Mason...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Thank you.
Now if I can just convince my kids that “because I’m the Dad and I said so” is valid, my life would be complete.
Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living. ~Alvin Dark
The other sports are just sports. Baseball is a love. ~Bryant Gumbel, 1981
Actually, the wave DOES block the game and distract from the action.
Sorry — you’re wrong about this one.
The blue jersey thing — OK, I’ll give you that. I still don’t like ’em.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You mean besides the two seconds it takes when the wave passes in front of you?
Like I said, if those two seconds are that important to you, you ought to be able to tell when it’s gonna happen – and when it does, all you have to do is stand up at the same time everyone else does, and then sit back down when they do.
Of course, it will look like you’re doing the wave like everyone else, but in your heart you’ll know that you’re just watching the game… ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
No more so then someone walking past you to get to their seat.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
than
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
In many ballparks...
… they hold you at the top of the aisle to wait between innings to come back to your seat.
Maybe they should do this at Wrigley, too.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
They should
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 4, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be a solution, but what about people leaving their seats? My point is there are many distractions at a ballpark, what is it about the wave that brings it so much hate. The primary response I got was that it was people not watching the game as evidenced by their ability to stand and raise their hands for 2-3 seconds and that it was distraction.
They gone have to stop sleeping on me one day.. I gotta be one of the best
About 3 hours ago by Eric Wright Cleveland Browns – Cornerback
I have the answer
My first time here, awesome site Al, no Volvo or Toyota sign how about a sign that either says Viagra or Cialis and just hang it on some wood. lmao hang it on some wood i crack myself up.
by QCcubfan on May 4, 2010 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
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