Lou Piniella: This One's On You. Time For A Bold Move And A New Manager
by Al Yellon on May 9, 2010 3:06 PM CDT
in Chicago Cubs Recaps
Email
PrintLet me tell you a little story from recent Cubs managerial history. On June 27, 2002, with the Cubs floundering at 32-43, 9.5 games out of first place and calls for the dismissal of Don Baylor growing louder, Corey Patterson led off the bottom of the first inning at Wrigley Field -- coincidentally, against the Reds -- with a double.
Baylor ordered Chris Stynes, the next hitter, to lay down a bunt. (Which he did, successfully.)
A sacrifice bunt? With the leadoff man on second base in the first inning of a scoreless game? It was almost as if Baylor was saying to management, "Here. Fire me."
Which, a week later, they did -- and Andy MacPhail, the GM who fired Baylor, stepped down at the same time, promoting Jim Hendry to general manager.
It was this same feeling that came over me during today's 5-3 Cubs loss to the Reds, when Lou Piniella came out to get Ryan Dempster with two on and two out in the seventh inning and the Cubs clinging to a 3-2 lead. Dempster's thrown 112 pitches, Sean Marshall is all set to go to face Cub-killer Joey Votto. It's a no-brainer, right? Even if Dempster says, "I can get this guy", it's the manager's job to say, "Thanks -- but I'm going with Marshall."
Instead, Lou simply turned around and let Dempster throw a fat one to Votto, who hit a three-run homer on the first pitch, essentially ending the game. It's as if Lou wants to be fired, or maybe has just had enough.
I've never been an anti-Lou guy, although he wasn't my first choice as manager after 2006. He's done a pretty good job here, despite winning zero playoff games and looking sleepy through much of last year. But if Lou's going to do this kind of thing -- well then, maybe it's time for him to go.
And if that does happen, none of this "interim" stuff. The "obvious" thing to do would be to promote bench coach Alan Trammell, who would then be dismissed at the end of the season to move Ryne Sandberg, or someone else, into the manager's chair. Trammell's a good baseball man, smart, knowledgeable -- and from what I understand, far too nice a guy to manage. Bench coach? Great. Love it. He can help Starlin Castro understand what it's like to be a 20-year-old shortstop in the major leagues, because he was one himself.
There have been, as we have discussed here many times, several managerial changes in recent years that have resulted in floundering teams suddenly turning it on and making the playoffs -- you need only look back one year when Jim Tracy replaced Clint Hurdle in Colorado to see a dramatic example of that. The 2004 Astros did it too (Phil Garner for Jimy Williams, and mostly at the Cubs' expense). And then there's the 2003 Marlins, about whom nuff said.
So if Lou's going to be fired, or allowed to quit (more likely), don't do the obvious thing and just slot Trammell in the job. That would be dooming this season on May 9, and although the team looks awful now, there is too much talent on this team to keep playing this way indefinitely. Promote Ryne Sandberg, who's been talked about as the heir apparent for a couple of years now. Let him inject some new views, some new blood, into the manager's chair.
Or, think outside the box a little bit, and let Greg Maddux manage this team.
Why not? Maddux is already working for the club, already knows the players and the organization, and has one of the best baseball minds, if not the best, of his generation. If Maddux had been in the chair today, I can guarantee you Ryan Dempster would not have faced Joey Votto in the seventh inning -- and there'd be a lot more changes in the pitching staff, especially the bullpen, which for the last couple of years has been mismanaged by Lou. Managing relief pitchers has never been Lou's strong suit, and never is for a manager who wasn't a pitcher or catcher.
Only one current manager -- Bud Black -- is a former major league pitcher. He's actually done a pretty good job with the talent he's been given, particularly with a young pitching staff. I think Greg Maddux would be a terrific manager. If the Cubs are desperate enough to still try to pull a playoff season out of the current morass, some bold moves are necessary.
They've already made one, calling up Starlin Castro. Make another one. Name Greg Maddux manager. Keep Alan Trammell, who has managerial experience, around as a bench coach. (There's a poll on the right sidebar asking what you think about Lou's future as manager. Please vote.)
It can't be any worse than this and it just might be better. And one more thing: GO BLACKHAWKS!
941 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I was watching this while doing other things on the laptop
And simply couldn’t believe Lou let Dempster stay in there. It was almost like you could see Lou jumping off the bridge.
Witty .sig goes here.
Al, I guess you finally went to the dark side like all the rest of us.
I personally think you also have been having doubts about Lou, but unlike the rest of us you have had the constraint of being a public figure. That’s why you took so long :-)
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
Wow Al
now that you’re reached the level of public figure, I assume you’ll be posting your tax returns.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Clean up Lou
I have to agree with this comment. Lou looked like he just got out of bed in time for the game. Our manager should be clean shaven and mentally sharp. It is not a good way to lead. He didn’t make the proper move yesterday period. BB made his concern known before the first pitch to Votto.
If Lou had a beard or something maybe. What is with not shaving in his position ? That bothered me long before the Votto home run. Sorry but I am old school (in business too).
by If we only had Hubbs on May 10, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
If only being clean shaven would guarantee winning...
… I’m sure the entire Cubs team would have no facial hair.
Lou looks scruffy, but that has nothing to do with making the wrong move. This isn’t the military.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
lou needed to go . . .
when he pulled zambrano during the playoffs a couple of years ago . . .
Exactly. Clearly, they would have actually scored had they not changed pitchers.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2010 6:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Always thought it curious..
to manage for a game 5 that might never come..
Favre-enfreude
The thrill of seeing an epic Brett Favre fail. Derived from schadenfreude - satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.
I was sitting with my jaw dropped when Lou didn't take him out.
Brenly called it.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
I've been thinking for...
…two seasons that Brenly is the obvious choice. He has the experience, and a sharp eye for detail. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Two reasons why this will never happen.
1) Brenly likes his job and has said many times that he likes not having the pressure
2) The Cubs aren’t going to break up a successful broadcast team in midseason
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
2) Wasn't a problem for Lou Boudreau
If that’s what they REALLY thought the Cubs needed, it wouldn’t even be a consideration.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
That was fifty years ago.
And it was a dumb idea then.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You remember it well? ;-)
Kidding . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know with out looking - but the team was awful.
He was player/manager for the last Cleveland Indians’ championship in 1948.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Right.
The team was awful. It wouldn’t have mattered who managed that team, they were going to suck.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'm not a Brenly supporter (as manager) and I'm ready to try anything to light a friggin fire under these guys, but...
The Cubs aren’t going to break up a successful broadcast team in midseason
Al, if THIS is a major consideration and a serious reason why (from the Cubs’ standpoint) they wouldn’t make the change and ask Brenly to step in and try to make the final push for this edition of the roster to make the playoffs, then well as Mrs. Landingham put it in the West Wing: “Well God Jed, I don’t even want to know you.”
Meaning, if the Cubs put the interests of the BROADCAST team above the PLAYING team, then it IS time to clean house top to bottom.
I really hope this isn’t the case…
"Until we solve our bullpen problems and figure out how to score runs consistently, it's going to be a struggle. I'm just being honest. What are we going to do? Some of these kids are just going to have to get better. We thought (the bullpen) would be better than this. Boy, it gets out of hand in a hurry."
- Lou Pinella, May 8, 2010
Yeah, the Cubs should always put the welfare of the BROADCASTING team ahead of the BASEBALL team.
reason number 2 is stupid.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Although he did
say in an interview this spring on MLB-TV he would be interested in managing again if it was the right situation.
I agree that this wont happen this season.
However, I woulnd’t say that it would never happen. If Lou is not here next season, how could the Cubs not seriously consider someone with the credentials of Brenly.
He has won a world series. He has been around every cubs game for the last few years and therefore, knows are organization in and out. He has shown his baseball intelligence while broadcasting the coulpe of years.
And like Sue said, he has expressed interest in managing again. It would be foolish of the Cubs not to entertain the possibility of Brenly managing the Cubs.
Fire Lou? Name Maddux manager? Whoa....
Did you lose a bet with Doggie and the stakes were you had to write what she wants?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Not to worry Maddux would not take the job.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
if lou is to be fired
dont make ryno the manager
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
Por que?
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
he shouldnt be brought into this as the "savior"
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
...like the Cubs are doing with Starlin right now?
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
i said before he was called up that he shouldnt be brought up just to be the savior
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
OK I gotcha I gotcha...I like the consistency then lol...
I see your points….but I’d still like to see Ryno in there
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
That's Castro's job.
All kidding aside, this is obviously a transition year for the Cubs anyway. Why not just say “What the hell?” and do it? Lou hasn’t cared for a while now.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
i have a feeling
that the eternally pissed off section of cubs fans will want his head if the cubs dont turn into the 2009 rockies
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Sandberg (and Maddux) both have enough goodwill...
… that people would give them a pass if they didn’t.
And lots of cheers if they did. It’s almost a no-lose situation.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
cub fans surprise me every day
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
My thoughts exactly.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
The eternally pissed-off section of Cubs fans are insatiable.
And if it’s Ryno or Maddux, they might be willing to lay off of them a bit.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
I can't help but think that whoever succeeds Pinella as manager
will be seen as “a savior,” regardless of whether it’s Ryno, BB, or Jesus Christ himself. That’s just the nature of the position. Heavy lies the crown (of thorns?).
i guess youre right, but id still rather have ryno in minors this year
and no, i will not manage this team…
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Two Words
Denis Savard.
Steve Swisher - 1976 NL All-Star Catcher; DNP - Sparky Anderson's decision
by Dan Serafini on May 10, 2010 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
the season is most likely lost
anyway. If he doesnt save the season there is always next year
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Agree with you 100% Al.
As soon as he left Dempster in, I said to myself: ‘Votto is going to hit a HR here.’…then BOOM. Should have gone to Sean Marshall. He’s been using him as a LOOGY all year, and that was the perfect time to use him.
It’s Ryno time.
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
If not Ryno, then Maddux.
Like I said, think outside the box a little.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
At this point, I'd like to see Ryno...maybe move Maddux to pitching coach/teach bullpen guys how to pitch coach
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I can guarantee you Larry Rothschild isn't going anywhere as long as Hendry is GM.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Fair enough.
But seriously, Hendry won’t replace Rothschild. He just won’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know he won't...
maybe the next step is to get rid of Lou AND Hendry then
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Hendry isn't going anywhere at least till the end of the season.
Especially with two years left on his contract.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
agreed
if the team needs to ship off their veterans at the deadline, hendry is a pretty good guy to get the highest value out of them
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd probably give that more credence if he had any recent track record....
I mean, he got Grudz and Karros for Hundley. But that was in late 2002.
Since then, I recall him turning Kerry Wood and Mark DeRosa into a big pile of not much, and then paying millions to replace them with Kevin Gregg and Aaron Miles.
Fontenot in the deal for Sosa and cash?
I’m not willing to give him any credit for Carlos Silva JUST yet.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 9, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm going to go ahead and recommend this because you didn't mention Heilman this time.
I’m tweaking you a little bit, because I pretty much agree with you.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
no credit for Silva???
would you rather have Bradley right now? +1 for reducing the amount owed and getting rid of the nut case
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Hey, even if he never has another good start, we're ahead in the deal.
We’re pretty much playing with house money at this point, right?
But…. he’s been pretty bad his last 2 times out. If he’s going to stink, I’d rather that we just remember the good times we’ve had and get Z back in the rotation ASAP.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I give him no credit
He was dumb enough to believe that somehow Bradley had turned things around and signed him in the first place.
That's how I see it also.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
I mean, I don't envision any of this happening now for some reason...
I think Hendry will let Lou finish out his final year…
That’s not what I WANT, it’s just what I think will happen
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I wonder if that would be Hendry's choice at this point.
Maybe Tom Ricketts forces Hendry’s hand on this one.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I think that's the only way Lou leaves mid-season
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
I know the Ricketts don't want to have a bad year in their first year owning the team.
This might be a way to shake some of the complacency out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd also think that Ricketts wouldn't want to throw a Cub hero into an abyss...
…right off the bat. It’s one thing to make that kind of change in the offseason, quite another to do it in mid-stride.
I have no doubt that Ryno would accept the challenge – I just don’t think it would be a smart move by Ricketts at this point. You want to put your people in position where they have opportunities to succeed, not fail.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Point taken, but...
… at the same time, as noted, I think Sandberg (or Maddux) have enough goodwill that even if they failed this year, they’d be given a couple more years (at least) before being branded failures.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Ok, but why now?
Do you think Ryno/Maddux can turn this around and make something of this season? Or is it just to get a head start on the house-cleaning?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I actually think they could make something out of this season.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Basically this scenario
“He goes or you’re both gone.”
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I think if Lou leaves
Hendry leaves as well – Maddux as GM, Sandburg as Manager…
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Sounds good..
Can’t be a whole lot worse..
Favre-enfreude
The thrill of seeing an epic Brett Favre fail. Derived from schadenfreude - satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.
Ugh
Maybe Maddux as GM. Definitely not Ryno as manager.
DeRomanticism isn’t limited to DeRosa.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Well clearly Ryno wouldn't be thinking outside the box.
And I’m not sure Maddux would jump at the opportunity at this point. I was under the impression he was working in so many different aspects of the game because he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do in baseball.
Follow me on Twitter: @brandonrifkin
Maybe, but...
… you think he wouldn’t jump at the chance to be a major league manager? I’d think he would.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He's the cerebral type
Could he (figuratively) light a fire, if necessary? I don’t doubt Sandberg could.
But, yeah, having Maddux be in the dugout every game, no matter what the role, could make any team a lot better.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
No way
would Maddux take the job. He’s succeeded everywhere. And winning here will take time and control. As long as Hendry is GM he won’t be another Band Aide in his uber plan.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I think Maddux may have
higher ambitions…if he is as smart and as calculating as some of you have made it out to be he took his current position to be the GM waiting in the wings…the only way he takes the managers position is if the season is long gone…or he feels it can be turned around – i.e. around the trade deadline vs. by May 20.
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
Maddux does NOT want this job.
You have to give it to Trammell
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I would love to see either Bob Brenly or Alan Tremell as the new manager for the Cubs
by braziliancubsfan on May 9, 2010 3:12 PM CDT reply actions
Neither.
Brenly’s got a cushy job he doesn’t want or need to leave, and as I said, Trammell’s too nice a guy.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You think a nice guy manager would succeed with this team?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Wait...
so Bradley the cancer had to go because of his awful personality and all that, but now when talking about a person to run the team, they can’t be too nice?
That's not a fair comparison and you know it.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I don't usually agree with the poster, but why isn't it fair?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Because you're talking about the personality of a player...
… compared to the personality of a manager. Two very different things.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Right, but the team last year wasn't nice, this one supposedly is
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
That still doesn't mean it doesn't need a manager who can manage it properly.
Lou doesn’t seem the right guy for this group.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Maybe, maybe not
I’m not sure anyone is the right one. I do think they should be over .500 at this point, based on who they’ve played. I felt that this was a 78-84 win team going in, and they should be about 5 games over right now.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
*continued
But even though they are underacheiving, I’m not sure that the difference between 84 wins and an outside shot at a wc and 75 wins is worth a change at this point.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I think what Al is getting at
is that we need someone who is going to come in and throw chairs at the wall and get ejected to light a fire under their ass…
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
That's a terrible approach
Guys like Tom Kelly and Cito Gaston looked like corpses in the dugout, but their teams won.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, Lou looks like a corpse in the dugout...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And actually, that wasn't what I was getting at.
We need someone who has a better handle on bullpen use, on playing the right combination of players, and actually looking interested in motivating his team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
ok so I was wrong...
thats what I mean in terms of not having a nice guy as manager…for me it would be nice just to have a manager who didnt have a doghouse but rather looked at the scouting book and said, “Hey, Ramirez is sucking and Tracy hits well against XYZ pitcher” or, hey this guy has played 5 days in a row while that guy hasnt played, lets get guy 2 a start here…
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
i dont think the manager
makes one bit of difference with this team
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 9, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice guys finish last.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Brenly...
…would step down and take this job in a heartbeat. He can turn the team around. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
But if Brenly was intrested in the Brewer job, why wouldn't he be intrested in the Cub job?
by braziliancubsfan on May 9, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Brenly interviewed for that on a lark, not seriously.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So if he was given the job, would he take it? Would he be the Brewer mangager?
by braziliancubsfan on May 9, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess, but...
… I don’t think it ever got as far as an offer.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Yeah, I realize that, but if they did, he would take it, right?
by braziliancubsfan on May 9, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd say hire him too.
He obviously knows the team well enough.
by Kornchex on May 9, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was wondering when you'd come around, Al
It’s been long past time for Lou to go. While I hate to see the Cubs struggle, this would be the best move they can make right now.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I was waiting to see if they could turn it around.
Didn’t happen. Time for a change.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Speaking of the Marlins...
…is there a Jack McKeown (sp?) type out there on the sidelines? Some crusty baseball-savvy guy that doesn’t have long-term goals and would be perfectly willing to come here, kick some ass, shake things up, kick some more ass and see if we can make something of this season?
Re-evaluate at end of season and more likely than not, bring Ryno up then. Let him start with a clean slate.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Greg Maddux isn't "crusty"...
… but he’s pretty damn baseball-savvy.
I don’t know if there’s anyone who fits your description except maybe Davey Johnson.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
There are a few people chomping at the bit to get back in the game
Bobby Valentine is a good example. I wouldn’t necessarily suggest him, but the Cubs don’t have to look internally to replace Lou Piniella. That would be thinking outside the box.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Jim Leyland would be perfect but unfortunately he's busy with the Tigers now.
I’ll never forget the time he got in Barry Bonds’ face and let him have it but good…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Davey's not interested
in ever managing again. He likes to stay around the game, but his health (both physical and mental) won’t allow him to manage again.
But what would be the point of replacing a grouchy manager with a crusty manager? McKeon and Piniella are pretty much the same kind of manager.
What we need is to get someone that will make everyone relax. That might be Trammell and it’s probably Sandberg. Probably the guy we need is Joe Maddon, but he’s not available right now.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
It's funny you say that because as I was posting my original comment...
…I was thinking that the fiery Lou version would be a good choice as well.
As to why crusty would be good… I think for the most part, the Cubs are underachieving right now. And it makes it even more of a challenge when your two of your team leaders (DLee and ARam) are two of the biggest offenders.
I’m sure Lou has tried most every trick in his managing book to get this team back on track but what I haven’t seen yet is him kicking some ass, for lack of a better term. He does a pretty good of kicking the media’s ass in the post-game comments – I’d like to see him take that attitude over to the team as well.
I agree that going the “let everyone relax” route could work as well. My only concern there is I think that’s more along the lines of what Lou has been doing – and obviously with less than desirable results. Maybe it would have more impact coming from somebody else, I don’t know.
About all I do know is handing the reins over to Maddux is not the answer. No indication that he’d even want the job, and it sends quite the muddled message to Sandberg.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I agree
Maddux is a nutty idea of Al’s born out of frustration.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
Sort of like Z to the pen?
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on May 9, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
And no, I'm not going to stop talking about that.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on May 9, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think Lou is listening to Al
At least I hope he isn’t. But yeah—like that nutty idea.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
Why Maddux and not Sandberg?
Cripes, Sandberg wanted to replace Dusty Baker and they told him he had no experience and if he wanted to manage, he needed to learn how in the minors. So now they’re going to say to Maddux “Hey, no problem that you haven’t managed or even coached before. You got the job!”
Even Sandberg has now admitted he wasn’t ready to manage the Cubs four year ago and that he had no idea how much he didn’t know.
Hiring Maddux as manager is too much like the Packers hiring Bart Starr as head coach. (And Starr was just as smart a player as Maddux was.) That didn’t turn out well.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
by Josh Timmers on May 9, 2010 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Lou is a veteran player's manager
Isn’t that what we have been howling about. If Sandberg can call out at the HOF, he can demand a sense of urgency from our under performing warriors. Bring him in and give him a 3 year contract.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Of course
It’d be a backloaded contract
"Whenever one finds himself in the majority, it is time to step back and reflect," Mark Twain.
by WindisBlowingOut! on May 9, 2010 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
And I just mentioned his name
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Mike Keenan
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
AAAAAAAHHHHHHH!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions
We'll also turn down Ken Macha.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
BTW, Al:
Dempster faced Joey Votto, not Sean Marshall.
If Maddux had been in the chair today, I can guarantee you Ryan Dempster would not have faced Sean Marshall in the seventh inning…
Whoops!
I’ll fix that. Sometimes when you get on a rant… it doesn’t quite come out right.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I have been on
this train for about a year. After the 08 collapse, it was time. It is even more apparent now. Lou is toast, toast as in running a major league team. This team for some reason hasn’t had a ounce of juice since day one.
How can you explain losing every series this year except against the Brewers and D-backs. Swept by the Pirates, losing 2 series to the Reds and losing 2 of 3 to the Astro’s
Players are to be held accountable, no question. However Lou has lost this team somehow, and they lack fire in the belly, and they lack heart.
Jimbo show some guts and ask Lou to step down, if not, then fire him.
I think...
… sometimes when a manager gets fired, players realize that it’s their poor play that resulted in the firing, and step it up a notch for the new guy.
Otherwise why would all these changes suddenly turn losing teams into winners?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I wouldnt say that it happens alot
then again most of the time a bad team gets the manager fired and there just isnt enough talent to make it up with the interm guy.
Going forward I would like to see either Ryno brought in. No sense in having a guy here for a 6 month training/audition for other teams when we have a seemingly compentant guy in the minors. I think most Cubs fans, even the eternal optimist that I am, have given up on this season. Had 09’ been a different season and the Cubs actually had done something of note I would feel differently and want Lou to stay, I didnt see the game last night so I am not leaning towards firing or keeping him anymore…I do hope that lou makes all of his decisions with all of his ability and knowledge and he hasnt actually given up.
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
And if most Cubs fans have given up on the season,
they’re idiots. Sorry, but sitting here on May 9, that’s a ridiculous notion.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that and I haven't given up.
But I think it’s time to shake things up beyond Starlin Castro.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
You wonder if any of the players have
I honestly don’t know myself, and I wouldn’t want any player to give in on Mother’s Day. And yet it wouldn’t surprise me to find out that at least one player has severe doubts the team can come out of it.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Bruce, you can't possibly think this team is going to contend in 2010?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Did you mean
“Not Bruce, you can’t not possibly not think this team is not going to contend in 2010?”
Wait, wha?….
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
Losing 5 of 6 to the Reds and Pirates....
Is not the mark of a good team…let alone a championship one….. it may be early… but this team is going nowhere fast … and as constructed…Cubs aren’t going to make up ground against good hitting teams like Philadelphia…..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
or a realistic expectation....
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 9, 2010 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Whatever, DCF
The test tube doesn’t give you all the answers.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions
C'mon, NBF. You're better than that.
As Dan said, attack the point – not the person.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I did attack the point, SB
If we’re playing out a baseball season by projections, then why play any real games?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
projections
dont equal what actually happens
they can however be a good guide for EXPECTATIONS
which is exactly what i’ve said all along. Expecting that this team is a non-contender is a VERY FAIR EXPECTATION
it has been since the offseason and it has been reinforced through the first 32 games
follow me on twitter for fantasy sports analysis @http://twitter.com/DrewDinkmeyer or get the full analysis at www.fantistics.com
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 9, 2010 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
And in the end
it doesn’t necessarily mean squat, except giving a bunch of stat geeks something to congratulate themselves on.
There’s a place for it in baseball, but some people put too much importance on it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions
It's far past time
I agree. I think it was time to cut ties after 2008, but the organization had to show patience in the middle of a sale. Now that things are pretty much set with ownership, this should be a no-brainer move. Lou, you’ve had a fine baseball career as a player and a manager. It’s time for him to become an analyst.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
After 2008?
I figured Lou deserved one last shot — especially since he was on the last year of a three-year deal. The extension into this year? Not so much.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lou Piniella is our quarterback.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Indeed.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
I was thinking more like Kordell Stewart or Bob Avelini
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
TMNT??
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Good movie,
Elias Koteas played KC (or was it casey) jones
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles...
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I'm old....
It’s from a song…..
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
I'm gonna have to (red challenge) flag that...
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
But shouldn't you...
… call time-out first to make sure you should?
by Steven Schweickert on May 9, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep.
Burn two timeouts to challenge one play.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Green Bay Sucks! Green Bay Sucks!!
If you’re not a Bears fan, you can’t talk shit on a Cubs message board about the Bears. Just a fact
by 300LevelBleacherBum on May 10, 2010 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
uh
as a bears fan, making fun of lovie’s horrendous challenges not exactly “talking shit”
full fledged fact. lovie. is. awful.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
I've never seen this guy before.
He must be new. I just checked, he’s only got 9 comments here and 65 in total.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Um,
I wasn’t talking shit about the Bears at all, just their coach. There’s a difference, but it seems to have been far too subtle for you to grasp.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
And if you want to talk crap about the Packers,
I suggest you head over to Windy City Gridiron or Acme Packing Company. When I am here, I am here to talk about the Cubs. There are other Packers/Cubs fans here.
End of discussion.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow. I look forward to more factual contributions from you.
Go Packers.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 10, 2010 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, what if Dempster gave up a ground ball there. Cubs get out of the inning and we eventually get the win
One pitch really changed your attitude toward Lou, Al?
This is the year...
Even if that had happened, it wouldn't have been a smart risk
A-well-a Byrd, Byrd, Byrd, well the Byrd is the word.
Well, I agree we need to change managers
but wait until after this season. I don’t see another viable option that would work. Unless Sandberg was promoted..
This is the year...
I saw that idea, and I think it would be a great one
but the chances of Hendry doing that is zero; and, I think the chances of Hendry canning Lou are at a minimal. I mean Dusty took this team to a 66-96 record in his final year of his contract, and Hendry did not fire him despite huge fan opposition. I could see Hendry doing the same here: Let a manager like Lou walk and save face to end his managing career
This is the year...
Oh to heck with that idea
If you aren’t doing your job, you get fired. I don’t care how established you are.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Oh, I have no doubt that Hendry would do something like that
That’s a place where an owner needs to step in and say, “That’s BS. We’re running a business here.”
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Well, maybe Ricketts would do that
the Tribune sure as Hell wouldn’t have done such a move. Plus, Ricketts has no alliegances to Lou considering he didn’t hire him to begin with.
This is the year...
That'd be unwise of Hendry
He’s fighting for his own job, too. Z to the pen, Castro up early…these are moves of desperation, and it won’t surprise me at all if Lou getting canned is the next one.
If Maddux worked out, good for us
I hate the idea of pinning all our hopes on Sandberg. If things don’t work out for Maddux as manager, he could always go back to the front office and make room for Sandberg. But if things get turned around, is that necessarily bad for us? I’m all for finding the best person to do the job and not stroking a former star player’s ego by saying, “This job is yours whenever you want it.”
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
This has been said so many times, I just had to.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Anytime, Al.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
I cannot take credit for this one.
For I merely googled it. However, I must say, it took a helluva lot of effort to Google it. ;)
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
ha
you have a great future in being a Google Searcher
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
i think its
the straw that broke the camels back
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It did with me...especially when you seen him laughing in the dugout...
like he was telling whomrver…“watch this”.
I was kind of
exicted when they hired Lou. But this is just getting very sad…this team should be performing much better. Maybe it is time for him to go.
Yup.
Lou has really made a lot of questionable decisions this year. Frankly, I think the season is lost at this point — the Cardinals are too good and there’s nothing about the Cubs so far that makes me think they’ll be able to hang in a wild card fight.
The nucleus of this team is just played out. Stick a fork in this season, trade anybody who doesn’t figure into 2011-2012 that you can and move on.
I hate to think
the season is lost. Looking at what the team has done at times…if they get thier heads on straight and play that way more often..could be a good year yet
you forgot the sarcasm font
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Might wait until Memorial Day
If we’re not at .500 and showing some improvement, it might be time for such a move. The season is just 20% gone, but not lookin good admittedly.
If I’m Ricketts seeing this and some attendance apathy, I order Hendry to shake things up and cut payroll and change the core for ‘11. Can’t stick with this core group for another disappointing year, clearly, they’re too old and flawed as currently constructed.
Theriot is best trade bait they have, really need a LH 2B for future but don’t know many who are upgrades
That's the problem. Lol.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Thanks for the math lesson.
What makes you think this team will improve? What positive signs do you see?
Pretty good starting pitching.
Clutch hitting — even today, they had some.
OK, I’m grasping at straws. Still…
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Don't worry, I'm still trying to be optimistic as well.
However, reality is setting in and I just can’t see this team doing anything special this year.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
we just went 1-5 against the Pirates and the Reds
I’m ready for a youth movement. I doubt Lou is. That’s why I think you’re right — fire him, bring in a new manager and see what Colvin/Castro/Soto can do. They’re the future, not the increasingly frustrating Ramirez-Lee nucleus.
and saying the Cubs have had clutch hitting this season ...
is the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever seen you make, Al.
by elgato on May 9, 2010 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, they had some today.
And if Lou makes the right move, they win the game (probably).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
giving this team props for clutch hitting ...
is like saluting the Titanic for avoiding ice bergs.
this team is going nowhere, Al
I was more optimistic than you were six weeks ago, but this group isn’t getting it done. Time to regroup in a major way.
The cubs are the antithessis of a clutch hitting team
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
After Dempster, the starting pitching isn't looking quite as hot lately.
And if Gorzo doesn’t keep this up (and he won’t)…. well…. look out below.
It’s quickly approaching time to get this team’s house in order. And I don’t really think “fire the field manager” is the kind of change this organization needs.
Jim Hendry gave Lou this BS hand to play, and yes, he’s playing it badly. But the blame rests with Jim Hendry.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 9, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Promoting Sandberg would be a mistake....
…look what happened to the Tigers when the beloved Tramell was mad manager. There will be too much pressure and too much expected of the beloved Sandberg. Every little mistake will be magnified. Better to bring in an outsider. Thoughts?
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
"mad manager" is exactly what we need. I like it. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'd sure as hell be scared of a mad Ryno.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Trammell
Knew the team was going to be bad. Illitich knew the team was going to be bad, Tram took one for the team that year, no question. Not saying I would hire him to be manager, but I do like him as the bench coach.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Watching the Godfather right now...
Similarities between old Don Corleone and Lou are striking. Oops – Vito just took out a row of tomato plants…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And now Tom just asked Hendry to come into his office...
“You have to answer for Bradley, Jim”
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
"He had good table manners!"
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
He ate fine with his left hand....
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Stand pat for another month
If things are not any better by then, Hendry and Ricketts should consider pulling the trigger.
I don’t really think Lou has done anything to deserve being fired. But you know Cubs fans.
That said, he made the wrong move today in the seventh. And the status quo cannot continue.
God help us if, at some point, Sandberg is named manager.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:32 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
what has Lou done (since 2008) that warrants keeping his job?
And what’s wrong with Sandberg?
It's no use arguing
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
I was willing to see what Lou could do this year ...
before making any decisions. But after the last 32 games …
I don't think Sandberg is very intelligent
Maddux, however, is someone I could get behind.
Let me turn around your question: What has he done since 2008 that warrants firing him? 83-77 or whatever their record was in 2009 is not a fireable offense.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The problem is not the record, but the number bling we have.
Obviously, it is not the best way to judge a manager’s tenure, but in this town, it may be the only way.
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Number=amount of
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
Well, you didn't answer my question.
But I’ll answer yours. The 2009 Cubs underachieved, but I was willing to give Lou some slack on that given injuries, MB and other crap.
But six weeks into 2010, and Lou’s decisions are baffling. He’s not the guy to turn this around. It’s time to start rebuilding, frankly.
What decisions are baffling?
Last year all I heard was that he waited too long to do this-that-the other thing. This year he’s been more proactive (Z to the bullpen, for example) and I still hear complaining.
Cubs fans have turned into a lynch mob. We all might have to settle for a neophyte like Sandberg or Maddux, because nobody with any experience would want to touch this job anymore. Too much of a meat-grinder.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions
No, but I'll bet he would relish the challenge.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I can't imagine he'd want the job
Too much time away from his family.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions
In the summer?
Maybe not. Eventually, I think he’ll want to. Why not start now?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Because he doesn't want it.
At least, I’d be pretty surprised if he did. Plus – let’s say you had managerial aspirations (with the qualifications to go along) – and you knew you’d probably have your choice of jobs if you declared those aspirations. Would you want to start with this team?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know if he does
But if your only two choices are Ryno and Maddux (and they shouldn’t be, IMHO), then I’d go with Maddux.
At the same time, I really don’t think Lou deserves the axe at this point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Who knows
He sounds very content where he’s at. I guess you never say never, but he certainly would be a good candidate, I’d think, if it ever came to that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Did you watch the game today?
Not pulling Dempster was baffling. Not putting Aramis lower in the order has been baffling. I could go on.
A lynch mob? Good lord, dude! The team is falling apart and you don’t want to change anything? Really?!
Where should Ramirez bat?
He’s batted as low as sixth recently, IMHO. Put him where? Eighth? Out of the lineup for extended periods entirely?
Why don’t you try putting the blame on Ramirez?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
he batted sixth for one game!
I blame Lou for not benching Ramirez or hitting him sixth or seventh.
blames on lou and ramirez
but ramirez should not still be hitting in the middle of the order
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And D. Lee
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
His ave. may be a bit bettre....
But it seems like he’s been up and failed a bunch of times lately and “key” junctures in the game….(Like when the bases were loaded last night b4 the floodgates opened)
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Sometimes I think you're over the top, but you're 100% correct here.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
that too
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry...
Needs to be there all year….I don’t care about a bunch of big numbers after it’s too late
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
Obviously you've spoken
with all the candidates. Please enlighten us with your results and be specific.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
And to directly answer your question,
two division titles, 83 wins when they probably shouldn’t have had that many, and three consecutive winning seasons. Yes, that’s enough reason for him to keep his job.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
no, it's not
We’re not going to agree on this.
Probably not
but that standard would be fine in any other city in MLB. Any other city.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions
The Bronx would like a word with you
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
There's the Yankees
and then there’s everybody else. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF, you could work for ESPN with that kind of thinking! :-D
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
+1
the only game I could watch yesterday was the Yankees/Red Sox – I HATE ESPN and their absolute love affair with the red sox and yankees
Official El-Presidente of the Unofficial Little Castro Blocker Fan Club
Currently 34,839 on the Season Ticket Wait List - Expected age of being #0: 119
The Eastern Seaboard Programming Network
isn’t called that for nothing. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Hence why they're called Excessive Self-Promoting Network
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Point taken, though
But you know what? Fans of every team think that their manager of the day is an idiot. Cardinals fans rip on LaRussa all the time.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
For reasons I don't understand
I despise TLR as a person, but his managerial record speaks for itself.
The key difference is I don’t think Cards fans ask for his head every time things go sour.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that's changed
since 2006. They used to hate TLR because he wasn’t Whitey, but after he won the WS, they’ve been easier on him.
I don’t think TLR ever will be beloved in St. Louis. But they no longer want his head on a stake, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
speak for yourself
i get pissed off at tony la russa, but i like him and i am glad he is managing the cardinals
"Moneyball: It's kind of like communism."
Perhaps not. I know one that does
But he’s not as baseball savvy as he thinks that he is.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean he's an average Cardinals fan?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey-O!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if it was underachieveing....
More injuries and age…..
This team may well not be underachieving…..Lee and Ramierez bettter snap out of it….b4 it’s way too late…..if they put up big stats at garbage time I give them no credit
hey need to be stepping all year…not just at garbage time
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
NBF, I know you've seen Sandberg in Peoria
and didn’t much care for all the ejections. But aside from that, was there any other evidence of a lack of intelligence? Is Ryno another matchup-obsessed, reflexive manager who makes a bunch of CYA moves?
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
I'd say that's accurate, EE
Out-of-the-box thinking isn’t Ryno’s forte.
I think he works well with younger players, which might lend well to managing the Pirates, for example. But not with this franchise, not with these expectations, not in this town, regardless of his history here.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Just a question
Ryno has been working in the lower minor leagues until this year. You say he works well with the younger players. What other kind is there in lower A, A and AA ball?
I have to admit, I have not seen him manage. But, what type of baseball acumen does he possess? Has he show the ability to get players to play to the level of their potential?
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
You're right
Sandberg is an orthodox manager. He’s mostly a by-the-book guy. His biggest strength is relating to young players and handling the media. He’s also good at team building stuff-the ejections play into that.
The problem is, managing a game at the minor league level is so different than managing a game at the major league level, it’s hard to judge. For one, you aren’t actually trying to win on the minor league level. (Well, it’s a secondary concern.) So it’s kind of hard to know what he’d do in the majors.
But his comments that Jim Frey was the best manager he ever played for does not give me confidence.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
how many managers has he played for??
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Dallas Green
briefly. Lee Elia, Charlie Fox (briefly), Jim Frey, John Vukovich (very briefly! Two games), Gene Michael, Frank Lucchesi (briefly). Don Zimmer, Joe Altobelli (one game), Jim Essian, Jim Lefebvre, Tom Trebelhorn and Jim Riggelman.
So the answer is—a lot. Now I’m not sure any of them were any good. Lefebvre is probably the best of the bunch
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
gotcha, thanks Josh for taking the time to do that, I tried, but failed
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
FWIW
Sandberg credits Frey with turning him into more of a power hitter. So maybe that influences his view of Frey as a manager.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Frey was the guy
who told Sandberg he could hit for more power, and that really should be a positive sign for Frey as a manager.
But as an in-game tactician and a manager of a bullpen, Frey was awful. The only person he was better than was his mentor, Don Zimmer, who he later hired to mismanage another great Cub team.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
Don
Zimmer was the best of this bunch in my opinion. If he were younger I wouldn’t mind having him right now !
by If we only had Hubbs on May 10, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Because it's not Piniella swinging and missing or botching easy catches or throwing meatballs down the middle.
But if the mob wants to lynch him, whatever.
However, one move made by the manager today...
… or, more correctly, NON move, likely cost the Cubs the game.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
No argument there.
All I was saying is that he’s not 100 percent at fault and that I’d like to know why Sandberg wouldn’t be his choice.
yeah, it's the mob
Lou’s done a great job this year, clearly.
Players not performing
Yes, Manager with no life yes. Maybe your not watching the same team then me. This team has no life no get up and go. His pitching decisions are horrendus.
Time to make a move.
What constitutes 'life' in a team?
If they went down swinging but were peppy about it, would that be OK?
I guess that’s what I’m trying to get at here. Don’t project your own feelings about the team on the team. Just because you feel lifeless after they do something wrong doesn’t mean they do.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't explain it
but when you play and are part of team that has it and doesn’t have it you can tell by the play on the field. This team is dead, it takes its cue from the manager.
Good Lord,
NBF is even moving towards cutting bait on this train wreck. This is going to be an ugly summer.
by Damen Jackson on May 9, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Four games under .500 after a month
isn’t a train wreck, Damen.
Frankly, I think Cubs fans are out of control, and their inabilities to handle the vagaries of a baseball season are putting even more pressure on a pressure-filled situation.
I’ve said this before, but I think the pressure of performing for this team might be too much for anybody to bear.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Its sort of fun.
After you get past how nasty everybody gets to each other, the angst can be amusing. Kind of like that Dashboard Confessional concert i went to in 2003.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
Man, a Dashboard Confessional concert?
That’s pathetic.
by mic on May 9, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I went with my friend from marching band! He was the 2nd chair tuba!
I think he went on to be a meth dealer later in life…
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
The original comment would have been good had you stopped after "concert."
But how can you admit you went??
I tell lies.
Like, all the time. I’m not on meth. I never played the tuba. I’ve seen Dashboard Confessional probably 5 times, but each of them as an employee of the venue or promoter.
I just say stuff. It doesn’t mean anything. And its hilarious when people latch on to it and use it to mock me, as if having gone to an emo concert in 2003 or having played tuba in high school would have actually mattered.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 9, 2010 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Four games under .500 after 6 weeks
Playing two of the worst teams in MLB – Houston and Pittsburgh, and going 1-5 against them.
2-4 against the Reds
1-3 against a struggling Atlanta team
Wait until the Phillies and Cardinals come knocking.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
*1-2 vs. ATL
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny thing.
Teams like these Cubs often do very well against the top teams in the league. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them win series vs. the Phillies & Cardinals, then struggle again vs. the Pirates.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Want to go double or nothing on that Big Gulp bet from 2009?
And I hope that I lose it if you do.
Between now and Memorial Day, the Cubs have 2 vs. COL, 2 vs. PHI and 3 vs. STL. I say they win no more than 3 of those.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Ok. Again, I REALLY hope you win this one.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Phillies have beat up on the Cubs...
The last couple years….I’ll bet the Cubs only beat PHL once or twice last year…
ONCE ….1-5 vs. Phils
And St. L won the season series as well
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
I would be surprised because this team is currently
10-9 against teams below 0.500 and 4-8 against teams above 0.500.
Sure, funny things happen in baseball all the time but until the Cubs get out of this rut they are in I don’t anticipate many victories against better teams this year.
Reminds me of the 2000 Green Bay Packers.
6-4 against teams over .500, 3-3 against teams under .500.
They actually led the league with the most wins against winning teams that year, and swept the Minnesota Vikings (who went to the NFC Championship Game that year).
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Bruce is just going to need more time,
that’s fine.
I’m going to guess that most fans haven’t actually seen much of the Pirates, Astros, and the like this season in person, or they’d probably be crapping in their pants about this team’s prospects. It’s six weeks into the season, and this team has been virtually uncompetitive against much of the dreck(sp?) of the league. That’s not the ebb and flow of a baseball season, that’s something is fundamentally wrong.
I’d like to think that the Cubs will eventually perform some significant triage, but I’m not seeing anything on the horizon. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong.
by Damen Jackson on May 9, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
All I've been saying since the beginning of the season
is that you can’t evaluate it on a few weeks. A couple of months? That’s a bit more fair.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Baseball is a funny game, SB
Witness the Padres in first place. Remember the awful Tigers team the White Sox couldn’t seem to beat a few years ago and which probably ended up costing them the division.
That’s why I say wait another month.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, I'll still watch - and hope tomorrow starts a 10-game winning streak
Really, I do hope that.
But I have no expectations that it will.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And I have no expectations
a 10-game losing streak will ensue.
We’ll see.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't, either. They aren't a 100-loss team.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Their overall body of work isn't good
How about the other two teams I mentioned?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Fans are upset because this team is clearly not that good.
Even Al has had it, but he thinks their is hope to turn it around.
I’m a little less hopeful. I hope I’m wrong.
But your tired crap of beating up people for daring to be down on this team is old. And blaming this teams failures on the fans high expectations is laughable.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You know nothing of Ryne Sandberg.
You’ve been banging the gong that he’s a dumb guy for going on 3 years now. He’s not. I don’t even know what you’re basing that on — the fact that you saw him manage in Peoria or something?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 9, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
What's your critieria, D?
Why do you think he’d be a good manager? Because he was a good former player? Your DeRomanticism would lend itself to that, I suppose.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't speak for D98 but Ryno had me at his HOF speech
Guilty as charged. :-p
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
It was a nice speech
but I’m basing my opinion on a number of factors, including what I’ve heard from people close to the team and the organization.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Because I've spoken to him, and because I've seen him talk extemporaneously on television many times..
I don’t know why you’d state, apparently with complete conviction, that he’s an idiot. I simply am not seeing that.
As for whether he’d be a good MLB manager, well, who knows? I do believe that he’d enforce a “Cub Way” of doing things, and I think this org could use a heaping helping of that.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
The Cub Way = Not Winning a World Series In a Really Long Time.
fuck that
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They need a cohesive organizational philosophy.
If there’s one thing that Ryne Sandberg can do for this org, it is to instill and enforce an overarching philosophy and “way of doing things”.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Oh for heaven's sake no. The organization could have done this at anytime in the past 60 something years....
they don’t need one special person to decide to implement policy. Your line of reasoning is from the kind of mindset that has put this organization at a disadvantage for so long. IF YOU WANT TO CHANGE SOMETHING, CHANGE IT. There’s no curse, no magic bullet and no “right guy” that will make everything start working right. If the Chicago Cubs had wanted an overarching philosophy enforced across the organization, they would have done it. Explain to me why they couldn’t.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Seriously. Rec'd.
If i hear this argument, or the just as abused “if we’d just lose 90 games and finish last in the division somebody at Wrigley would notice and they’d change stuff and everything would be fixed!” argument again, i’m going to go all TJ11 (2010 version) on you all.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 9, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Huh?
I’ll go out on a limb here and say that even if you didn’t like Ryno as a player (and maybe you did, I don’t know), you at least respected him and his approach to the game. So what’s wrong with trying to instill that same dedication and professionalism throughout the playing organization should he get the job?
I would imagine if Ryno gets hired, he’s going to want to make some changes. And if he wants to change something, he’s going to change it. That’s what you want, right? And if he changes something, chances are he’s going to change it to something that he is most familiar with, i.e. along the lines of how he played the game. And for the most part, I think that is what D98 wants. I certainly can’t see anything wrong with that.
So I have no idea why you took off his head.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
...
If there’s one thing that Ryne Sandberg can do for this org, it is to instill and enforce an overarching philosophy and "way of doing things".
Ryne Sandberg was my childhood HERO and IDOL. That doesn’t blind me to the facts I stated above.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact that the team doesn't need Ryne Sandberg to have a "cohesive organizational philosophy."
The fact that “the Cub Way” is a bullshit term.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 10, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions
But what if Ryno was hired and he got everyone to start doing things the "right" way.
Would you still be pissed off?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I'd prefer the GM dictating an organizational philosophy
He’s the guy picking the players, after all.
What if Bobby Valentine was hired and got everyone to start doing things the "right" way?
I’m not pissed off, I’m pointing out that if an organization cared about doing things a certain way it wouldn’t matter who the manager is.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 10, 2010 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I think you guys are way overreacting here.
D98’s original point was that Ryno brings a lot to the table in terms of doing things the “right” way. What’s so wrong with that?
I think it’s pretty clear that the Cubs have no history of having an overarching organizational philosophy, i.e. there is no “Cub way”.
But bringing somebody like Ryno on board could be a catalyst to bringing that kind of positive change to a franchise. And maybe the general foundation of such a philosophy already exists in the front office, whether that be from Ricketts, Hendry, Wilken, or whoever.
Point is, the manager of the team has the opportunity to be the most public face of an organization. Obviously having the skills to manage and being able to produce results are going to be the key criteria for hiring and evaluating a manager.
But just in terms of an overall approach to the game, dedication, professionalism, etc. etc. i.e. doing things the “right” way, I can’t think of too many other people that would be better positioned to pull that off for the Cubs right now than Ryno.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Frankly, I'm not sure
I want anybody who has any prior connection to the Cubs.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
well, I guess that rules out a certain ex-employee... ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
They certainly need different people in order to do so.
The current braintrust has utterly failed in that regard.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
The current braintrust is incapable or unwilling to make the necessary changes.
I don’t know if Ryne is the “right guy” to make the changes that I believe are required. I think there’s a decent chance that he is. I absolutely know that the new manager is going to need a GM who is also capable of internalizing this org-wide philosophy, and I also know that Jim Hendry is not that guy.
You say “Explain to me why (the Cubs) couldn’t” instill a overarching philosophy with the current braintrust – that’s the wrong question. For whatever reason, they didn’t do so. And for that reason among many, many others, they have to go, and quickly.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Well, I've done all that, too
and I didn’t call him an idiot. I just said he isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm all for firing Piniella at this point
But, I’m still not so sure about bringing in Sandberg or Maddux. Neither of those guys deserve to be thrown into what could potentially be a bad situation if they are planning on a longer managerial career.
I’d be up for promoting Trammel though. As Al said, he’s quite smart. In addition, he’s been watching this team for the last 3+ years and I’m sure he’s got some ideas on what to do with them. Yes, his first go around as manager wasn’t so great, but I’d be on board with giving him a chance for the rest of this year.
Question though … if he does very well, what would that do to Sandberg’s future?
by jerry morales rules on May 9, 2010 3:35 PM CDT reply actions
Even Casey Stengel had a bad start to his career
Good point.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
Surprised you're so anti-Sandberg.
He’s done a good job in the minor leagues, and from all accounts, has worked hard and worked his way up — much as he did as a player.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He gets thrown out of a lot of games
but I’m not sure he’s the guy you want if you want to win it all now. And that’s exactly what Cubs fans are going to want. This franchise is in no position to rebuild, nor should it have to.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd just like a guy who handles the bullpen better.
He couldn’t be worse than Lou.
In any case, I’d like to see them take a flyer on Maddux.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
If it came to that,
Maddux would be my choice over Ryno.
But I don’t think Lou deserves to be fired. He’s the best manager the Cubs have had since Durocher, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
And yet Durocher resigned during the '72 season
after which the Cubs went 37-23. Would be interesting if Lou did the same thing.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
He might just decide
he doesn’t need the aggravation. Couldn’t say I blame him.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Nitpick.
Durocher was forced to resign.
And it’s a very similar situation now. Lou was indeed the best Cubs manager since Leo. But his time, like Leo’s, has passed.
Now, we have to hope the next guy is better than Whitey Lockman.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I could live a long, happy life
if I never heard Whitey Lockman’s name again.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Whitey Lockman
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, at least
you didn’t SAY it …
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Didn't WL play for Leo's Giants
and furthermore get one of the hits preceding Bobby Thomson’s HR?
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Funny how fast PK changed his tune in a few months
First he puts out the infamous ad in the paper defending Leo in 1971 and telling the “Dump Durocher Clique” they’ll find happier homes in the offseason. Then, months later, Durocher is forced to resign midseason. Unless it was really John Holland’s call to get rid of Leo?
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
No, I'm pretty sure that came from PK.
Wrigley loved Durocher, but even he realized by mid 72 that Leo had to go.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Lockman
I don’t suppose he’s available? How about Jim Marshall. Too bad Herman Franks just died.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Lee Elia!
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
by Josh Timmers on May 9, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Al, excellent write up...
Bob Brenly sure called that one, and he really seemed to be grilling Piniella for the move (or lack thereof).
I was sitting there and disbelief as he left Dempster in at 112 pitches.
In high school, i played tuba in the marching band.
That is all.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
How about a College of Coaches?
Ryno, Trammel, Maddux, Brenly, and Yellon.
The day we lose our will to fight - Is the day we lose our Freedom.
Brenly can't manage this team...
Cause I enjoy him in the broadcast booth too much. :)
....
Everyone's thought process with this team is that the playoffs start now. Tomorrow is going to be Day One of our run to October.
-- Marlon Byrd
in 2006 ...
When the Cubs were awful, I enjoyed watching Rich Hill, Theriot and others play late in the season.
The Cubs have better young players now than they did then. Who wouldn’t rather see a youth movement than a bunch of aging players continue to suck?
I say maybe try Willie Randolph as the manager
"They say you don’t win a pennant in April, but you can sure lose one." - Ryan Dempster
"Stuttgart Kickers soccer player Sascha Bender once suffered a facial injury after being punched. The assailant, teammate Christian Okpala, said Bender "permanently provoked me by farting all the time." "
Good heavens, why?
I don’t see teams rushing out to hire him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
how many years would you like?
"They say you don’t win a pennant in April, but you can sure lose one." - Ryan Dempster
"Stuttgart Kickers soccer player Sascha Bender once suffered a facial injury after being punched. The assailant, teammate Christian Okpala, said Bender "permanently provoked me by farting all the time." "
Don't forget the NTC.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
How about giving this Chicago coaching legend another chance?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
God no
I remember his years with the Saints and I still have bad memories of those years. Ditka’s an idiot.
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
The trade on draft day for Ricky Williams didn't exactly work out
Maybe if Coach was puffing on a doobie instead of a cigar that day….
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
If we are willing to pull from the football world, this guy has some more recent suck-sess...
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
He took his team to the AFC championship?
And winning depends a lot more on coaching in the NFL.
by mic on May 9, 2010 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Playoffs without a ring are a failure and a waste of a season.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
You're smarter than this.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
At TMOTTBG?
I don’t think so.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Assuming Hendry sticks around the whole year
I think he talks Tom Ricketts into giving Lou the dignity of finishing the year, just like he did with Dusty. And I also think that at the end of this season, Hendry is given the same choice as MacPhail after 2006 – resign on your own or get fired. Maybe that’s the real value of the Toyota sign: covering the last year of Jimbo’s contract!
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
If the team continues on its current path
You might be right, EE. If the team continues on its current path.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree with most of what you're saying, Al
Admittedly, if I’m looking at the problems with this team the manager is pretty low on the list (I feel that way about all teams), but you can’t fire the players, so…
But yes, if the Cubs are gonna can Lou, then don’t promote Tram. If a new manager is going to make a difference, I don’t think having a guy who’s been around the whole time is going to change the culture. I also don’t think a new manager is going to change much, as this team simply doesn’t look good, but Hendry’s got his own rear to protect, so I expect him to throw Lou to the wolves pretty soon.
Not at all surprised that he left Dempster out there too long,
this is nothing new. Dempster rarely finishes strong in his starts, it usually goes like this: gives up some runs early, dominates through middle innings, gives up runs in the last inning of start. This happens often, often enough for a manager to notice, I would think. It happened against the Pirates earlier this week, the Astros a few weeks ago, and a number of times last season. I appreciate Dempster and the leadership he brings to the team, but there is no way he should have been allowed to stay in the game.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
"What do you want me to say?"
“With this team, its either feast or famine”
“Go talk to the players.”
“When Ramirez and DLee start hitting…”
" We’re gonna have some surprises for you."
Lou-speak.
Yeah, we'd miss those statements.
But I can do without them.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Do the Ramirez/DLee and suprises statments go together?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
I don't see the value in firing Piniella at this point
The roster was not well constructed going in. Yes, Piniella deserves some of the blame for that, but it is what it is.
Sandberg, Maddux, Don Zimmer or Miller Huggins’ body could all be tried, but it’s not going to make the bullpen competent, stop Silva from turning into a pumpkin (a process which has begun), make Ramirez hit, make Lee hit, etc.
Most GM’s only get 2 – MAYBE 3 shots at hiring managers. I think that Hendry and Piniella’s immediate futures are directly linked.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
True, but clearly the management is desperate
Will firing Piniella turn this team into a contender? Probably not. But Hendry’s gotta try, right?
I'm not sure. My point in mentioning Hendry was that it could be seen exactly as desperation
And not the move of an exec with a well-formed plan. Which is what it would be – because frankly, despite the modest successes, Hendry has yet to demonstrate any kind of well-formed plan.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree, which is why I see it happening.
Hendry’s fighting for his job. He doesn’t care about Castro’s super two status or anything that extends past this season. He needs to win NOW. This team, as currently constructed, doesn’t look like a winner. Things like moving Z to the pen really are desperation moves. The next one’s to cut ties with Lou, on the slim chance that it actually makes things significantly better. Otherwise, Jim’s just biding his time until his pink slip comes.
Ok, I see what you're getting at
If he does make the move, though, it’s probably his last chance.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Most likely
I know Ricketts said he won’t meddle in the baseball operations, but I really hope he tells Hendry he can’t trade away top prospects in an attempt to salvage the season.
I agree with what Damen says above about the slow moving train wreck. I gotta admit, it’s pretty fascinating to watch. As of now, the desperation moves (and I include a possible Piniella firing) don’t bother me that much, as I don’t think they do significant damage to the future of this organization. But if Hendry starts getting really desperate…that’s worrisome.
Yeah, I would hope you're right about the future of the team
Also, I hope that they retain Tim Wilken.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
re trading top talent
that is Maddux task to prevent. not managing.
On Bruce Levine's talkin
baseball show yesterday, Hendry was on to discuss Castro.
He said about the Ricketts: “Sometimes things don’t go the way you dream they will…”
He also said, that “We could have won another 5 or 6 games in the last couple weeks that we let slip away.”
He has got the company line big-time.
You have nailed it Al.
I asked this during the game thread...
What does everyone think of the Cubs signing Carlos Pena? Someone brought up Jason Werth too.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
How about waiting till the offseason?
Can’t sign them now.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know that.
I was just throwing it out there. I don’t want people to think I’m giving up on the team yet.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
A big no to Jason Werth.
"You've got to get your damn shirts rolled up and go out and kick somebody's ass. That's what you've got to do. Period." -- Lou Piniella
The Upcoming Offseason
If after this year we see a noticeable chunk of the everyday lineup gone – Fukudome, Lee, Theriot, Lilly – that will signal a youth movement. Consequently it also might signal Ryno coming in to manage and Maddux taking over as GM.
As NBF and Al have alluded to, starting to go younger would be a good situation for Sandberg and Maddux to come in fresh. There wouldn’t be the awkwardness of those two trying to tell a grizzled veteran how to pitch ahead in the count and hit behind the runner. They would be free to educate newbies on playing “the right way”.
That’s not to say the Cubs need to become Pittsburgh west and let go all the veteran talent at once. I’d give ARam an opportunity to rebound if he doesn’t opt out of his deal, and Soriano is staying put short of an improbable trade. Marlon Byrd seems to have the kind of presence you’d want younger players to be around too.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Fukudome?
Doesn’t he have another year left?
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
Yeah, but
it wouldn’t be surprising if management did what it could to get Colvin a regular spot in the lineup. Dome’s got that pesky NTC though.
They have to find a way to work around that.
I don’t know if Tyler Colvin is going to be a legit MLB starter, but I do know that Dome has essentially no place in the future of this team.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
All due respect, EE, I'd rather talk about
the upcoming offseason when it actually gets here, or closer. The current season just started, for heaven’s sake.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Fair enough
All that was in response to your observations on Sandberg, and comparing his intelligence to Maddux’s. I’d agree with you that Maddux seems the sharper and craftier of the two, which is why I’d want Maddux as the next Cubs GM.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
And I agree with your scenario
if today were August 9 or September 9 instead of May 9.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
What is with all the ex-Cub love?
Maddux as GM? Why? Do you have any idea whether he is a good evaluator of young talent? Does Maddux have any interest in negotiating contracts?
I’d prefer the Cubs get some new young blood. Who might be the next Theo Epstein?
See, I'm also trying to anticipate Ricketts' thinking
New owner, met his wife in the bleachers, keenly aware of Cubs history and the fan base while at the same time seeking newer ideas and blood…
So part of me is predicting what might happen as much as stating what I’d like to see happen. Would my feelings be hurt if Maddux doesn’t become GM? Absolutely not. Would I dig another Theo in charge? You bet!
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
I can't imagine Maddux wanting to sit in an office and negotiate contracts.
He’d want to be in the dugout in game action.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Just my opinion but I can't imagine Maddux settling for the banality of the dugout
when the opportunity to run an organization is available. And especially if the powers that be are well into the process of grooming Ryno to steer the ship. So what does that leave Maddux to do, assuming he likes the Cubs enough to say with the organization and assuming that Ricketts wants to take full advantage of Maddux’s proclivity for gamesmanship?
Seems like being the GM is the next best thing to being the field manager…if not better.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
"Banality"?
Being in the middle of game action? That’s what Maddux likes.
I cannot imagine him in an office, locked to a cellphone, negotiating contracts.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
But Al, you know that a GM does much more than negotiate contracts
The general manager is arguably the one position in a major-league front office that sets the entire tone of the organization. The head of scouting/development reports to him, as does the major-league field manager. The evaluation and procurement of talent – knowing what attributes to emphasize, which metrics to prioritize in assessing talent – all flows from that position.
By your reasoning, all a field manager does is write out lineups. And Maddux is too smart for doing just that.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Obviously, a field manager does more than that.
I just think Maddux is temperamentally better suited to field managing than being a GM.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And since Ricketts is a little bit in awe of Maddux
Coaxing a few more bucks to land a top-notch FA may be easier for him, too.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I don't think any grizzled veteran pitcher would turn down advice from Maddux
Well, maybe Moyer…
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I realize there are no
guarantees, BUT -
we paid over $16,000 for season tickets this year.
It would be ideal to see a better product than what I have been seeing during the last two years.
As Al has pointed out, this could spiral downwards to the point that the team can kiss the Division goodbye by June 1.
But its OK because I can pee in a brand new trough, I guess.
“YEAR ONE!”
by The E-Man on May 9, 2010 4:08 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Per Maddux
Has there been any announcement on who will take over for the Braves after Cox’s swansong tour is over this season? Is it possible for Maddux to take the Braves’ manager job next season or would his current contract stop that?
By making him manager of the Cubs he would be locked up – kinda “out of the box thinking”, but it may be a way to protect a potentially valuable Cubs’ asset.
What's a century to a tortoise?
Good point Spud - could be why Maddux was hired by the Cubs
to begin with: get him familiar with the organization and make him feel like part of the “Cub family” so he’d turn down a potential offer from Atlanta.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
As far as Maddux
It would be unfair and unjust to not promote Sandberg. He has gone about being manager all the right ways. He too has good baseball mind, and experience. Maddux should be, right now, the pitching coach. Fire Larry if you want to fire anyone.
No offense, but if jobs are going to be handed out based on who was here first,
Then the team isn’t getting better any time soon.
And again – would Rothschild’s departure make Ramirez and Lee start hitting? Would it make the bullpen comprised of more talented pitchers?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The main issue with the Cubs is pitching
not hitting. That comes and goes. Pitching is the constant. You can win consistently with out it.
What?
You can win consistently WITHOUT pitching? Did you really mean to say that?
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
OK
Their pitching isn’t the problem, that said.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
What?!?!
Have you been watching the games? The starting pitching has been EXCEPTIONAL. Are you going to give the pitching coach credit for that? Of course not. That’s on the pitchers. When they fail, that’s on the coach, right?
Did Rothschild decide to take a bullpen north with a bunch of unproven kids and a journeyman as the setup man? He probably had some influence on who they picked – but not on the pool that they had to pick from.
Larry Rothschild is not the problem. He is not a relative or an acquaintance, but I am just so tired of this thinking. It’s (again, no offense) lazy.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes i watch the games.
Yes we haven’t been scoring alot of runs. But are pitching has not kept games close. Are pitching stunk against the Dodgers in the playoffs. If you haven’t been watching our ace is in the bullpen. Our previous ace was moved to the BP. And the other ace fell off the face of the earth. How about a dominate closer. Can you think of one? The Astros with their anemic offense made it almost all the way with an outstanding BP and an ace pitcher. This team right now could be winning alot more if it could shut down teams offenses.
Wow...this is a jumbled mess that doesn't speak to your original premise
1) 2008 was 2 years ago. The offense did NOTHING. Regardless, what does that have to do with 2010?
2) The Cubs’ most consistent SPs in the last three years are, in order, Ted Lilly and Ryan Dempster. Regardless, the manager moved Zambrano to the bullpen – and how, exactly, does that speak to the overall state of pitching?
3) Marmol has done a credible job when actually handed save situations. There aren’t many “lights-out” closers in the game – and is it the pitching coach’s fault that they don’t have Mariano Rivera (who also blows an occassional save)?
4) What do the 2005 Astros have to do with the 2010 Cubs?
No. It’s not the pitching. The Cubs are at or near the top in quality starts, with an ERA well below 3 in those starts, but a losing record in those games.
Aramis Ramirez is hitting .150. Derrek Lee is hitting .200. But you want to blame Larry Rothschild.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Starting pitching has been mediocre for the last few weeks.
We had an awesome three weeks to start the year, and a pretty iffy 3 weeks to follow that up.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Are we watching the same games?
They’ve been blown out a few times the last few weeks, but there also have been a lot of 3-2, 4-3 games, too.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
20 Quality Starts in 32 games
Who wouldn’t like to see a 20-12 record?
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Take a look at the recent starting - particularly in the last 2 weeks.
It’s been poor more often than not. Al and I were discussing it in another thread.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Then why do you always focus on the offense
expecting them to score 7 runs a game. Yea a little more timely hitting would be nice, but it’s not like we are loaded with a ton of offensive players. So we need to win with defense, and pitching. The bullpen stinks.
The bullpen stinks.
No kidding. I’ve been saying that. THEY WENT IN WITH BAD PITCHERS. You are expecting the pitching coach to turn a shit burger into prime rib. It ain’t happening.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
4 runs / game would have won two in PGH
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
I gotta agree with Shanghai
I’m not asking for seven runs, but four would be nice. Does that win every game? Of course not. But it at least gives the team a chance. And yeah, the pen sucks. It’s a bunch of kids with no experience and a veteran reliever who wasn’t good to begin with. Either way, I don’t see why the pitching is held accountable for the offense’s failures. Not like the hitters aren’t raking in cash.
Sorry, I have to disagree
It’s the hitting. Jaramillo was brought in with the express instructions to get this team hitting consistently in the clutch. They have consistently FAILED to do that and are practically leading the league in men left on base.
Pitching and defense wins championships. Hitting is what gets you there in the first place.
"This chaos is killing me..." - David Bowie, 'Hallo Spaceboy'
I don't agree with the clutch statement
How do you practice/teach that?
He was brought in to coach the hitters. Nothing more specific.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Mr.Soriano
has learned to lay off the pickoff throw type of pitch. I would say Rudy has begun to earn his money. :)
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
The numbers say otherwise
2009 RISP sOPS+ 88
2010 RISP sOPS+ 100
The problem has been the terrible starts from Lee and Aram. Other than those two, the team has improved quite a bit over last year.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Maybe the Cubs can get Bobby Cox?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think he'd accept
His retirement home is probably right next to Lou’s in Florida.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
He's too old.
I like the idea of him and Lou sitting in the retirement home together. Bobby Cox’s best years as manager are long behind him.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
No
but I’d say Fredi Gonzalez is the favorite to replace Cox. He’s just got to get fired by Florida first.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
That's easy
He just has to chew out his idiot owner. Worked for Girardi
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not going to be a problem
Gonzalez will find a way to get canned. I think we should probably call that the “Joe Girardi plan” from now on.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
The rumor down here...
Is Gonzales may be about to get fired
The best defense is a good offense.....Lou Pinella...still hasn't managed the Cubs to a post season win. D. Lee still doesn't have a post seasson RBI for Cubs...ditto for Soriano
"It's so simple, it's unbelievable," manager Lou Piniella said. "When you score runs, you win."
can we get him before the Braves?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
The guy we want to get fired down there
is Maddon, not Gonzalez. Love to see him managing the Cubs.
But I think we’re stuck with Sandberg as our next manager, for good or bad.
I never travel far without a little Big Star. R.I.P Alex
Right Maddon would get fired?
Not unless he is caught sellling signs to Braden.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I would like to say for the record "Good on Al!"
I have been really tough on Al about sugar coating this teams failures but today I believe he’s speaking with conviction and a clear head.
Thank you to Al for not papering over this teams issues and really putting this team on notice. Your voice is just one but it is powerful. Who knows it might just help.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:21 PM CDT reply actions
It's not just the manager...
I’m a life-long die-hard since I was 5 years old. Grew up in Chicago, but moved out to Cincinnati last year with my wife. We went to the game today, and all I can say is I’m glad the tickets were a gift and I didn’t have to pay for them.
I’ve grown up seeing some incredibly bad Cub teams like the rest of you, but this team just looks like they don’t care. I know they do, of course, but there was absolutely no energy at the beginning of the game, let alone in the 7th when Colvin’s 3-run shot put them ahead 3-2.
On a related note, what bothers the most is that they are not hustling. To me, that’s inexcusable. I was taught that you run every pitch out no matter what. However, from top to bottom, the only people who are running pitches out are Theriot, Byrd, and Castro. Everyone else trots and jogs like they’re 10 games ahead of everyone else in first place.
"This chaos is killing me..." - David Bowie, 'Hallo Spaceboy'
What did Lou say after the game?
I’m curious about what he said about the hitting (or lack thereof) and his decision not to pull Demp to face Votto.
"This chaos is killing me..." - David Bowie, 'Hallo Spaceboy'
1-5 road trip and Lou's answer is "Go back home."
Yeah he’s already quit he just wants his last 4 million.
Now the Cubs get to go back to sucking. Happy day.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm the last one to blame the manager
and this certainly isn’t all his fault but it is time to really shake this team up. Sandberg as manager and either Trammel or Maddux as bench coach would be alright with me.
I don't see the point.
It’s a nice symbolic gesture, but this train wreck won’t stop with a new manager. Old players, old contracts, etc. Trade away the assets we have—hell, the only players I think are worthy of keeping on this crappy team are Colvin, Castro, Marmol, Caridad, and Wells. The rest? Get the hell rid of them. Even Soto is 27, he’s not gonna magically be awesome. Blow it all up.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
If they DO blow it up, I don't want Hendry near the detonator.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter!
2010 is over. We need to sell low on players if we can—get them off the books, start fresh, get some damn prospects in here. Baseball America just cited the Cubs as having 5 of the top 100 prospects—that’s damn good. 16, 70, 74, 95, 98. Castro, Vitters, Brett, Cashner, Josh. That’s good man. Why can’t we get some prospects and start semi-fresh?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm sorry Al.
I don’t know how you have an infinite supply of optimism, and I do not say that in a condescending tone. I just can’t, and I don’t. This team isn’t good.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Too early to completely give up.
But you go right ahead.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Cubs fans have a propensity to look down upon those that have anything but a "eternal optimism" perspective.
I do not consider myself better or worse than those fans, but I do know that I can’t hold a civilized baseball conversation with friends or family or bar patrons and honestly claim that this team has a chance in 2010.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Well then, don't talk to us when this team comes back.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Like I said:
Cubs fans have a propensity to look down upon those that have anything but a “eternal optimism” perspective.
Just because I don’t think the 2010 team is very good doesn’t make me less of a fan.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
This has nothing to do with "eternal optimism"
and I wish people would stop saying that, because it isn’t true.
It has to do with realism.
Try watching teams other than the Cubs play baseball occasionally. It might open your eyes to some things, folks.
If anything, i think Cubs fans have become eternal pessimists.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, fine.
I’m trying to be real, and Al is acting like I’ve burned my five Cubs jerseys.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Six... you have six Cubs jerseys...
you little sneak – you’re holding onto that Neifi jersey, aren’t you…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Willy Wilson, too
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Willie Greene
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
I see smoke rising from your house.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Dan's choosing a pope?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Not quite.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
so you have a fire escape, thats good
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
I live in a hovel
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I've got to agree with Dan's sentiment here, Al. You're being a bit harsh.
Just because some of us think contention is highly unlikely, it doesn’t mean that we’re Randy Quaid in ML2. If they climb into the thick of the race, I’ll be the first to acknowledge that I was wrong and I’ll be happy about it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
So Al are you saying if
A.) The Cubs come back into contention = Dtpolitt cannot talk to us
B.) Dtpolitt cannot talk to us = Dtpolitt is banned
THEN:
C.) The Cubs come back into contention = Dtpolitt is banned
Hmmm…one move reason to root for the the Cubs. :)
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just playing man.
and pointing out the harshness of Al’s comment.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Al's comment wasn't harsh, Dan
Although I think you were accurate in your assessment of BCPD.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it matters
My point is, I don’t trust him to get good prospects in return.
His best trades have involved teams in fire sales.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll agree with that last statement.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'm not sure Ramirez is, either . . . .
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
If you're gonna let someone blow it up
I’d prefer it be the guy who’s going to be rebuilding instead of the one who created the mess in the first place.
Exactly
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions
But we are stuck with
Fonzi: 5 years 19 mill a year.
Dome: 2 Years 12 mill a year.
Quickly aging Rami: 3 years 15 mill a year
Middle reliever A 3 years 3 million a year
Middle reliever B: Four years 19 million a year.
All of those contracts the cubs are stuck with so that means next season even if we blow up the team with have 71 million wrapped up in 5 (C-) players. I don’t see how blowing up the team does anything productive for the 2011 season.
I believe the cubs will we sellers but it won’t be a sell off. That will happen in 2011.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's waaaay too quickly to count Aramis in that group.
And I understand we have to keep some of the piss-poor valued guys. But I’d rather sell the guys that have SOME value right now than keep them and just all drown on the ship together.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
You might be right
How about Lee and Lilly to the Sox for Bard and two prospects.
They can have Z too if they take the whole contract?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
That's not enough.
I dunno what they’d do with Lee, considering they already have a plethora of 1B/DH guys, but they could use Lilly in their rotation to supplement Dice-K or Beckett’s horrible year.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
How about the Mets
They could use a first baseman and everyone needs pitching. Do they have any young talent in AA?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I feel like you're just leading me on.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
No...just brainstorming
Got nothing else to do
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Have you SEEN what Ike Davis has been doing?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
No...I know he's a Rookie being asked to carry that teams offense.
He is also more of a Mark Grace first baseman on a team needing better power numbers.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
He's hitting .316 and fielding great
And I think Jason Bay, David Wright and Jose Reyes are the ones that are being asked to carry the offense.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
True but Bay is not hittting and most GM want more power out of 1B but it's the Mets so logic is optional.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Met logic is the only thing that would make them trading for Lee plausible at this point.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Soto is having an All Star year
His sOPS+ is 188.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Very glad I decided to
spend the day running errands and hangin’ with my mom instead.
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Maybe being at home can help the Cubs.
These last two games can easily be forgotten with a couple of wining series at Wrigley.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
but but but...I dont want to just win at home
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
too bad.
the are going to go 8-0 and be 3 games back when its all said.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
They are going to undefeated on the road too!
AND WIN THE DIVISION!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
TJ11?
How did you get into Cubbiegoon’s account?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I went to Cubbiegoon's house and pistol whipped him.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
You want to hire a guy...
who has coached/managed exactly ZERO major league baseball games? I know he’s Maddux, and would bring an incredible amount of advice to the table. But to run the team? I’d prefer someone who knows how to manage.
Like Trammell?
I’ll take Maddux over a recycled manager any day.
Name an experienced manager who you’d take. The ONLY people who meet that description and are available would be Bobby Valentine and Davey Johnson. And I think both of them jumped the shark a long time ago.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
which is why you name an interim, and go after a decent manager next year
including Madden. You don’t HAVE to have the next permanent guy in place next week, you just want it that way
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Well, you see, if the batter hits the ball over the fence on a fly in fair territory
It’s uh . . . it’s uh . . . it’s gonna be a homerun.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Maddon
silly me I misspelled his name, clearly that invalidates the argument
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Oh, Joe Maddon.
What makes you think Tampa Bay would let him go? He’s done a great job there.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He probably wouldn't, He's simply my dream candidate
but my point was, by naming an interim it gives the team a chance not only to evaluate your interim, but to evaluate other options, such as, looking at someone who isn’t necessarily a retread from a losing team.
If you hire permanently, right now, your options are extremely limited. If you hire after the season, they’re endless.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Let's not forget
the team that was built from scratch. I want 32 year old Friedman in the GM chair if I have a choice to build an organization.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
see: McCarthy, Joe and Weaver, Earl
NOT saying that Maddux is going to win over 1,000 baseball games as a skipper. But let’s not dismiss him outright as a potentially good manager, either.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
I'm not dismissing him at all...
I’m just saying that I’d rather go with someone who knows what they’re doing, at least if we’re going to make a change in an effort to save the season.
I'll agree that you don't go with zero experience to save a season
My bad for misunderstanding…
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Okay, Al, thank god you've finally come around on Lou
But why in the name of god do you then advocate a guy who has never had COACHING experience, let alone managerial experience at ANY LEVEL as his replacement? Just to think outside the box?
Here’s where you and I differ. I want to fire Lou now because there is still enough of the season that there is a chance it could be salvaged if we had someone with a clue. You apparently want to see it turn into a freaking circus.
Never mind that naming a manager as an interim allows the team to take a breath and examine the possibilities for next season, instead of making some kneejerk reaction and behaving as if they have to have the future in place NOW. Jim Hendry has done enough of that already. Every move for the last two years has been a panic move, and has been plugging a hole in the dam in a finger.
There has to be some actual planning. Name Trammell the interim manager, and evaluate Ryne Sandberg for the rest of this season. For that matter evaluate Trammell for the rest of the season. I don’t get why you think Trammell would be no change at all. Tracy was on Hurdle’s staff, since we’ve already drawn that comparison.
This bringing in Greg Maddux as the manager is just…………well it’s ridiculous
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
and by the way, Let's have a complete repeat of 2002, and have Hendry step down as well
As incompetent as Lou is, this is not solely his fault
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
No, it's not.
But this team has more talent than the 2002 team.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
maybe, but it's still poorly constructed
and this will be the second time Hendry’s management decision has been a failure. At some point, if we’re going to admit there’s a problem with the way things are being done in Chicago, it’s time to recognize who the common denominator is.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Trammell.
The guy with three losing seasons to his credit. You think that guy is the guy to salvage this season?
Maddux doesn’t turn it into a “freaking circus”. The man has a great baseball mind and understands pitching, which the current manager does not.
Sometimes you need to make a bold move.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
He was handed HORRENDOUS teams in Detroit
And what exactly is it that you think Maddux is going to do that Trammell couldn’t in the span of three months?
At least Trammell knows the ins and outs of each player and has seen them up close in game action and behind the scenes.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Oh stop with that...
Trammell had awful baseball teams and you know it. The greatest manager in the world wouldn’t have won with that bunch.
There are bold moves, and there are reckless moves
a bold move at this point would be firing Lou. Because we all know it isn’t going to happen, at least for another few weeks. And I’m willing to bet it won’t happen at all. If Jim wouldn’t fire Dusty at any point during HIS last season, he isn’t going to fire Lou.
But let’s say he does fire him. Naming his PERMANENT replacement be someone who has never coached or managed at any level is flailing into the reckless category. Name him the interim if you want to be bold. Don’t sign him to a three year contract.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Yeah, I don't agree with all these people saying "Bob doesn't want it."
Last time I checked, when the Brewers position was open, he was a front-runner (or spoken of as such).
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
I'd certainly take Brenly as an interim guy
with the chance to get named to the permanent position if things go better.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Brenly
was incredulous when Lou left Dempster in. He said in no uncertain terms he should bring in Marshall.
by Clark Addison on May 9, 2010 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I disagree
Prior to two years ago Piniella was mentioned as being one of the best minds in baseball. This is a man that has been shell shocked by an awful bullpen. Yes, he should be let go considering he’s not coming back next year and there is still a slim chance to right the ship but I would disagree about Lou not understanding pitching.
Wow.
I doubt even Joe Torre could have done much with the 2003 Detroit Tigers.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
He was . . . but I hope you're kidding.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Time for a bold move?
A wake up call?
CARLOS ZAMBRANO AS MANAGER!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
How about a college of coaches made up of Starlin Castro, Z, and Aaron Miles?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Except play LF
That’s Marshall’s job
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
After what we've seen so far, nothing is off that table.
And to those of you who laugh at our “Z for manager” decision – can’t you wait until his first game as manager before you decide that the decision was a failure?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on May 10, 2010 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jim Riggleman
Another example of a managerial change injecting new life into a ballclub was the firing of Manny Acta and the hiring of Riggleman. It does work, and the Cubs organization need to Fire Piniella before it’s too late.
Dude sorry but
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Not to mention
that both Riggleman and Tracy were interim managers who earned the permanent position and have their teams playing pretty good baseball this year.
I really don’t get Al’s avoidance of an interim appointment
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Because by doing that you are quitting on the season.
It’s too early to do that, but NOT too early to shake things up.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
so if the Cubs go the Maddux route as you suggest...
…that means they (and he) are in it for the long haul, right? At least 2011, maybe more?
As for Ryno? Thanks for taking care of the kids these past few years. Pick up your rocking chair on the way out… Is that how it shakes out?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
I think the better solution is
making Maddux the General Manager. I think he would be great in that position.
Problem is
Whomever is hired to be GM is going to have his hands tied. Hendry has saddled us with a number of bad contracts.
Additionally, he has never shown the ability to get top $$$ for any player from the Cubs. He has plundered team when buying, e.g., Ramirez, Lee. But if you can name someone he took to the cleaners when he was selling, you’ve got me.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Hey! We got Aaron Heilman for Ronny Cedeno!
Look how……..oh
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
OT: Perfect Game
Dallas Braden has a perfect game for Oakland through 8 innings against Tampa Bay.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
yes, and while I'm no fan of AROID
I kind of want Braden to lose this no-hitter, because he seems like a whiny bitch
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Uh, A-Rod is a whiny bitch.
1 – Slapping the ball outta 1B glove
2 – Yelling during a routine pop-up and screwing up the 3B
3 – Running across the mound
A-Rod is a whiny little bitch.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
did you miss the part where I said I'm no fan of Aroid?
I just don’t like Dallas Braden either.
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
I was just elaborating upon your sentiment.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Exactly.
The incident happened, what, two weeks ago? I read a story on ESPN.com last week and the guy is still talking.
Shut up and move on already.
Please
Have you listened to ESPN interview anyone they can remotely connect to a “controversy”? They continue to badger them until they get a quote that they can isolate and manipulate.
Mainstream sports “journalism” is nearly an oxymoron these days.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
Off to the ninth
Remember, the Rays were the victim of the perfect game last year.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Soft liner to first
One out.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Hard liner to left
Two out.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
Groundout to SS
Perfect game.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- George Santayana (1863-1952)
2010 is not over
but the Division looks dimmer every day. Sorry, Al, I disagree totally with your comparisons to other teams that were out of it and came back against talented Division rivals. The number of times the Cubs have done it in my lifetime have I can count on maybe three fingers of one hand.
As a Wild Card, depending on how shitty the rest of the others are, they could have a shot once they get their act more together.
Be careful:
You’ll get flamed for not thinking we can win it all in 2010.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Nobody said that, Dan
I wish some of you would fall on your swords already and get it over with.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Missed Al's comments above?
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 9, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I didn't
And that’s not what he said. And you know it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay I'm done here.
I’m not freaking out, I’m not jumping ship, I’m not completely swayed by those that are saying “hold steady!” or “jump!”. I haven’t liked this team from the get-go, I’d like to think I’m critical of their moves, and I’m not too offended by claims taht I’m not a fan because I don’t see exactly as they do. I can get along wtih you and your opinions when they attack the issue, not the person, and I don’t see anything constructive coming from furthering this topic.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
by dtpollitt on May 9, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fine, Dan
I don’t see anything constructive from furthering it, either. You started it, so good for you to end it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
oh please you do it 47 times a day
the minute someone mentions the team has problems, you’re running in there with the “then get the eff out!” comments.
Or, you’re rooting against them!
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Huh?
This team does have problems. And I rooted against Milton Bradley. I don’t root against the team.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
which is why my response was to Bruce, and not you
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Jesus I need to stop interneting today.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Or stop snifing glue
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
FLAGGED!
Should not be telling people to kill themselves. You are just as offensive as Blou and suicide is not a joke.
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you might be over reacting here...
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
He certainly is overreacting
But it’s nothing new. Overreaction is par for the course for a lot of people around here.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Just so you understand...
Idiom Definitions for ‘Fall on your sword’
If someone falls on their sword, they resign or accept the consequences of some wrongdoing.
it is not attributed to suicide…
"Why people, who have not committed any punishable offense, listen to Country and Western music is absolutely beyond me" - John Cleese
I don't care lol
I speak my mind and can be a “Cub Fan” as much as people who think they will win the Series every single year.
by The E-Man on May 9, 2010 5:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Maddux does NOT want this job
He is working PART TIME. He talks often about wanting to do exactly that. He wants to watch his son play little league.
You don’t need to worry that he is going to take over the Braves next year either.
Logically the person to take over is Trammell. Changing a manager can make a difference and Lou’s moves have been inexplicable for some time .
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
2 outs...
1 more out live coverage on espn
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
I'm an A's fan
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
YEAHHHH
PERFECT GAME!!!!!!!!!!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
wow
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
PERFECT GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
wait, there was a perfect game?
who pitched it?
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Dallas Braden for the Oak. A's
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
PERFECT GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
So much for A-Roid ripping him as a guy who was like a flea on his ass.
I am THRILLED for Braden.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
HOLY CRAP WIKIPEDIA already updated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
awwwww.
Dallas Braden’s mommy died when he was in high school. good for him.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
WTF?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
He phrased it weird, but I don't think he meant it was good his mom died
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Good for him that he threw the PERFECT GAME!!!!!!!!!
not good for him that his mommy is dead.
"A dream you dream alone is only a dream. A dream you dream together is reality." John Lennon
that one flew right over your head
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
6 of the last 8 PERFECTS have been lefties.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
oh god, next Lou is going to advocate for an all lefthanded rotation
I guess I'm just a worrier, that's why my friends call me whiskers
Fun fact! Kevin Gregg got his 9th save today!
He has a WHIP of 0.81 and an ERA of 1.12.
No, I’m not saying that the Cubs should have kept him. Just a fun fact…
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
Just trying to keep it light, Jose!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I suppose so.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Which again makes me think
the pressure here might be too intense for just about any ballplayer. Just a thought.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Then they are in the wrong business, quite frankly.
The Red Sox were able to push through it. And what pressure did the Cubs really have on the road trip?
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Are all ballplayers in the wrong business?
At least the Red Sox had some company. Not anymore. The Cubs are alone in their futility.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, what are the options, then?
I doubt you’ll convince Cub fandom to lighten up collectively.
However, if you do get their ear, can you tell them to drop that dumbass “Let’s Go Cub-bies!” chant? I hate that frickin thing. Sounds like a bunch of pleading 7 year olds. “C’mon Cubbies! Please?”
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
You and me both
Can’t stand “Cubbies.”
What are the options? I don’t know. Or maybe I just don’t want to know. :-)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's go Cubs!
Let’s go Cubs!
Let’s go Cubs!
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
VCF has it above.
Staccato chant. Much more assertive.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
please dont use Cubs and futility in the same sentence anymore, it makes me sad
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
102 years, 62 years, 56 years
those are the droughts for the Cubs, Indians, and Giants.
Maybe it’s easy for me to say because I never played the game, but isn’t there some point where the past is the past? Where there’s no difference between 102 and 62 and 56? Don’t the precise numbers end up being a matter of semantics?
My point is that talent trumps all. Keep fielding a club who leads in runs scored and least runs allowed and the past will eventually be buried.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
That's true
My thinking is you have no right to cite the 102-year thing unless you were here for all 102 years. I’m sure subconsciously, however, everybody is cognizant of it at some point. Even Greek priests, sadly. ;)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF, I actually started to write about your famous line
of “unless you’ve lived 102 years”, asking why players should be allowed to bear the weight of history when fans are ridiculed for doing just that. But because it might have be misconstrued as a personal attack, I refrained.
Whether you’re a fan or a player for Cleveland or SanFran or Seattle or Texas, I think you can’t help agonizing over that kind of futility. But now I’ll invoke my famous line – Boston showed it could be done when you have overwhelming talent that makes the fewest mistakes in October.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
I like your famous line
better than my famous line.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Is there really much of a difference between 56 and 62 and 102?
Seems to me once you go past a couple generations, it all kinda blends together. So I’d say the Giants and the Indians are in the same futility neighborhood as the Cubs.
And even if they’re not, do you really think the pressure here is too intense for just about any ballplayer? Because if you really think that, then that would mean there’s no hope – ever, right? ‘Cause it’s only going to get worse the longer it goes, right?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Ok, I guess I should have read further down the thread
I see that EalyEagle raised the same point. But I’m confused now because you seem to agree with our point here. Yet earlier you said the pressure may be too intense. Which is it?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Disagree completely
the difference is that the fans of the Giants and Indians, at least the VAST majority of them, can remember seeing their team play in the World Series.
In fact, if you are in your 50s like I am, you can remember the Giants playing in the World Series three times.
But, there are fewer and fewer fans every year that can remember the Cubs playing in a World Series, let alone win one.
what's your bar here?
I thought the goal was to win the World Series. But you’re dismissing the Giants and Indians fans from the futility argument because they’ve played in the World Series. So just playing in the World Series is good enough?
If you’re willing to drop your expectations one notch, is it really a stretch to drop it one more? I’m sure a VAST majority of Cubs fans can remember seeing their team play in the NLCS.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
There is a HUGE difference
between playing in a World Series and playing in an LCS.
You won the league…the team is a pennant winner. No matter what happens in the World Series, you are league champion.
Playing in a LCS just isn’t in the same ball park. It’s just a play-in series for the big dance…sort of like the two teams that nobody ever heard of play to get into March Madness.
Is there not an equally HUGE difference between playing in a World Series...
… and winning a World Series?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Well, clearly that's your opinion
in ALLCAPS as well. Guess you win.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
And proof of this is in the fact
that most baseball fans can tell you who played in the World Series. Name the year and they can tell you without hesitation. Most times they will have to think about who the teams were that lost in the LCS, and a lot of the times they cannot remember.
there is some
validity to this i think. I mean that’s how I explain the total meltdown the last time we got to the psot season. I still think if they could just even get to the WS not even win it would exercise some demons
Al tipped the Z move to the bullpen right
hopefully he’s on the money with this one too.
"Keep pushin till it's understood,
And these badlands start treating us good."
Well, if most of you don't care for Lou, there is at least one ex-Cub who loves him.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
I love Lou, and would not like to see him go but
it is time.
I think you keep Alan as the Bench coach, promote Ryno as the Manager, and get Maddux in as the pitching coach. Enough of Rothschild, how they let this man ruin pitching careers is beyond me.
This team has enough talent to contend.
and LET’S GO HAWKS! Clinch a berth into the conference finals for the second year in a row.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 6:04 PM CDT reply actions
AUUUGH! Enough with the Rothschild blaming!
Who’s career, exactly, has he ruined?
Ryan Dempster? Ted Lilly? Carlos Marmol? Randy Wells? How about the starts that Silva and Gorzelanny are off to?
Did Sean Gallagher’s star soar after getting away from the big, bad Roth?
STOP IT ALREADY!
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
me thinks its just time for in with the new out with the old ;)
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Funny thing
Those outside Chicago seem to think Rothschild is one of the best pitching coaches in the business.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
why is that always the way things go?
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Really?
Mechanics? His job was to teach them. No one seems to adhere to any of his so called “teachings” If you seriously think he should stay you are nuts.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm going to ignore the argumentum ad hominem
And point out that you haven’t answered the question.
Really? The pitchers that I cited have bad mechanics and are pitching poorly?
Can you enlighten us more with your vast pitching knowledge? Oops . . . I guess I didn’t ignore it.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay here goes.
I don’t think he has helped Z one bit, as a matter of fact I believe he has hindered him. He is not nearly as dazzling as he was before. His mechanics are flawed at times.
Mark Prior, remember in 2004 when he may need Tommy John after spending a season with Larry as his coach? Hmm.
Wood, well Kerry never had good mechanics.
I do not trust him handling our future anymore, meaning Cashner, Jackson, etc.
If you do then I commend you, because I have no confidence in this guy.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Better than what you posted above
But you are granting Baker a free pass for putting Prior back in after a baseline collision, riding him into the ground during late 2003, etc.
Zambrano’s problems are more often than not self-inflicted.
And, you still haven’t addressed the guys that I mentioned who are doing well. Dempster and Lilly in particular have had their best years with the Cubs.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
True
Once Wells has consecutive seasons I will give you that one.
Dempster had ONE solid season. And before that he got a lot of what he knows from Rich Dubee when he was with the Marlins.
Carlos Marmol, unproven. Still.
Lilly, seemed to come into his own pitching under Gil Patterson in Toronto. He went 37-34 in the American League East. I’d say pitching in the NL (Halladay) has been why Lilly is dominant.
Rothschild has done nothing to honestly warrant him being around this long. I think that Maddux would be more useful but obviously that isn’t going to happen. Time to move on.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions
demp was great post-june last year
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying he didn't
but post-June does not constitute a full season.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
post june >> 2 months
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
you aren't getting the point of why
I’m saying get rid of Rothschild. One guy that had success with the Marlins.
Post-June to me means July, August, September. Post-May = June.
So 3 months out of 6 is good?
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
post may i mean
sorry
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
and i really dont care if larry stays
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
If Lou goes, he won't stay.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I just don't see him being
here anymore. Unless the other options are seriously that bad.
Time for them to move on is all.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
and in addition
that is one guy.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions
reading that, your 2nd sentence, in one simple statement gives me goose bumps
make it so Tom or Jim or who-the-hell-ever.
"Well-behaved women seldom make History"---Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Wishfull thinking I guess
haha.
"I don't know what the big deal about Crackerjack is"
by theGraceyslumpbuster on May 9, 2010 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
So Greg Maddux is how old?
44. Ok. Jamie Moyer pitched a complete game shutout. How old is he? 47. This will never happen obviously, why not I do not know, but the Cubs need someone who can pitch in relief. Would it not be the most awesome thing to have Greg Maddux reactivated? I honestly don’t think he would care about the whole hall of fame eligibility thing.
If he wanted to pitch, he'd pitch.
He doesn’t want to pitch.
I'm singing, "GO CUBS GO! GO CUBS GO!" -- DrCrawdad on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 AM CDT
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! -- Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on May 9, 2010 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Maddux activation
I like the idea, too, but Maddux wasn’t really his old self the last few years he played, and I doubt he’d want to come back as a sub-par pitcher.
I think Al’s suggestion of bringing Maddux in as manager is pretty interesting, but I think Sandberg, if anyone, deserves the job. Like other said, he’s put in his time, and Maddux hasn’t.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
Maddux does not want to work full time BUT
if he did the perfect solution would be Sandberg as manager and Maddux as bench coach. He said a few years back that he would like to be a bench coach and really it would be perfect. Maddux likes be the quiet guy, helping players and predicting the game like moves on a chess board. Sandberg can go out an argue, take pitchers out, give pep talks and Maddux just sits in the dugout whispering in his ear.
If only we could pay off Chase Maddux to loan us dad for a year or two, but I can’t see it happening.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
Heard Smoltz on the radio a few weeks back...
…he said Maddux would never want to be a ML manager, doesn’t want the headaches, nor does he need to prove anything to anyone.
bench coach or personal assistant
if pinella leaves, i would imagine sinatro would leave as well.
Enough is Enough ....
I was never if favor of Lou comming back this year . In my mind I had hoped things would work out . Lou is from the very old school . Nothing is going to change his mind once he sets it .
THe last week has been very hard to watch for the faithful fans . If things are to change for the better it has to be soon . No waiting for the All Star break . Now !! Lets hope Ricketts can see the future of this club and soon .
Craziest. Post. Ever.
For every example you can give of a managerial change turning a team around, there are 30 examples where changing managers did nothing.
But that isn’t the crazy part. I would be interested in hearing of an example in the last 50 years where a team turned their season around by changing managers and going with someone who has never managed a game.
Expos?
I thought Buck Rodgers managed that team. I sit corrected.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Dick Williams started in '81
but when the Expos got tired of his sarcasm, John McHale canned him and put Fanning in charge. Prior to that, Fanning was an Expos executive since the team’s inaugural year in 1969.
But my response to Azjazzman wasn’t entirely intellectually honest. Fanning was mocked behind the players’ backs for his lack of baseball acumen, and it’s been said that the Expos players held a clubhouse meeting in September 1981 and decided it would be up to them to win it instead of leaving it all in the hands of Fanning.
Too bad the players couldn’t have overruled him when he brought in Steve Rogers pitch to Rick Monday, eh?
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
'Blue Monday'
Still ugly words for any Expos fan to hear (well, those that are left, anyway).
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
What game was that?
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions
1981 playoffs
Monday homered off Rogers to give the Dodgers the victory in the series-clincher. The Dodgers went on to win the WS.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah,
I looked that up right after you mentioned it.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Montreal 1981
I have a good friend who grew up in Montreal and was 15 when that game occurred. It is still a sore subject for him. I can’t say the name “Rick Monday” in his presence.
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
I can imagine.
That game looked like it was bad for Montreal fans.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay, "sit corrected" made me LOL.
"The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money." --Ernie Banks
Not a valid example
Fanning took over a team that was 44-37 and their record after he took over was 16-11. No turnaround there.
Besides, Fanning had managed in the minors.
I'll concede Fanning managed in the minors
but “turnaround” can be measured in non-statistical terms. My readings about the Expos have me convinced their own version of 2004 (lotsa talent that foundered due to inner strife) would have occurred if Dick Williams remained in charge.
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
Here's an example.
Paul Owens with the 1983 Phillies. Yes, Owens had managed before — 11 years earlier, with a horrid Phillies team. He had basically been an executive. Owens the GM fired Pat Corrales and took over as manager with the team in first place, although barely over .500. Owens managed them to a 47-30 record and a division title, and they made the WS (though they lost).
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So, since neither
Fanning nor Owens fit the criteria, is it safe to say that it has not happened in the last 50 years of baseball?
Sounds like somebody needs validation
Sittin' on the ledge and sippin' Kool-Aid...
by EalyEagle on May 9, 2010 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOVE xkcd!
There is no infinity button for failing in sports. At some point, things turn. They always do. - Bill Simmons
Nope
I would be most interested to hear if this has ever happened. I remember it being discussed somewhat last year when the D’Backs promoted a guy who had never managed before. I’m sure it happened in the early years when it was commonplace to hire managers with no experience, but I’m still waiting for a recent example.
Craziest post ever?
Not on this blog. Heck I thought the Z to the pen one was pretty crazy but then….
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
college of coaches alone is good for about 30 changes
Unofficial Self Appointed President of the Player Formerly Known as Castro Blocker Fan Club
Bleed Castro Blue
Craziest?
Eric Hanna is disappointed someone else has stolen away his claim to fame.
"Keep pushin till it's understood,
And these badlands start treating us good."
MDBNIU is angry that the "Pornography thread" is being ignored.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions
That thread is my favourite!
"Keep pushin till it's understood,
And these badlands start treating us good."
Late to the party but do mean ever managed a game or at the MLB level?
In short do you mean Sandberg or Maddux? I simply can not see anyway Maddux would manage now. He seems to be very content working part time and learning different aspects of the game. He has been going around to Cubs minor league affiliates and while he still clearly “talks” to a number of players via cell or text, I don’t think he has spent a whole lot of time with the team since the season started. I did observe one interesting thing. There was a photo of Maddux in Daytona watching the team from the dugout wearing a Cubs hat & jacket. This is probably not the usual way scouts do it. I think someday he might like to coach or manage but not for a few years. He played in professional baseball from for 25 years, all but the first year, a full season meaning he was on the road a lot. He often mentions how much he likes being able to go to his son’s little league games. I am sure he would help Sandberg (or Trammell or whoever ) but I don’t see him wanting a full time gig right now.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 11:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Al seemed to be pushing Maddux
so that is what I was referring to. There is a heck of a lot more to managing than just understanding the workings of the game on the field. I just cannot see the logic is taking someone who is really just learning the ropes of working in an organization and putting them in charge of a Major League baseball team. The examples given of Paul Owens, Jim Fanning, and even A.J Hinsch with the D’Backs (a move that was widely questioned)…all of these guys had been with their respective organizations for years.
It's not time to fire Lou yet.
Not going with Marshall in that situation is peanuts compared to moving Z to the pen, which is indefensible. But all of Lou’s mistakes this year have been with the bullpen. I think if Jim Hendry can find a reasonable setup man – Juan Cruz or Kerry Wood or ANYONE – then a lot of the silliness will stop.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein
by Shawn Domagal-Goldman on May 9, 2010 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
Not all in the bullpen Sean
Plenty of issues with the position players where he had more good options. Letting Colvin rot on the bench most of the time is not helping. Batting Nady clean up in a game last week was nearly as crazy as leaving Dempster in today. Not giving Tracy, Fontenot or Baker more starts at third over A-Ram, pulling Soto for Hill in a key game situation etc.
His overall obsession with righty/lefty match ups is probably the worst thing over all and contributes to much of the above.
I think his hard ass my way or the highway style just does not work these days.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
OOPS sorry, SHAWN not Sean
I am thinking you are not a good Irish boy anyway.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Wood blew his first game back Saturday
No thanks.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You mean if the Cubs get a legitimately effective setup man for the bullpen...
Lou will stop batting the coldest hitter on the team in the direct middle of the lineup?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Why does Juan Cruz not have a job yet, if he's so good?
Plenty of teams are looking for bullpen help.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
so did Lou
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish he had gotten lost on his way to the ballpark
And the eighth and final rule: if this is your first time at Fight Club, you have to fight.
It's hard to drive from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe this team doesn't have the talent it's names suggest
To paraphrase Rick Pitino; the 2005 Derrek Lee isn’t walking through that door, the 2006-2008 Aramis Ramirez isn’t walking through that door, the 2005-2007 Alfonso Soriano isn’t walking through that door. They certainly don’t have the talent they once did, their best years are behind them. It could be this veteran team is slowly turning old.
Soriano's
been on one of his hot streaks, Byrd’s been tearing it up, Dome’s been tearing it up, Colvin’s been tearing it up….Riot was hitting good. Seems like Lee and Rami are the only two starters who have been stinking it up. Granted I haven’t seen as many games this year so far as is normal for me but balme that on WGN they broadcast so few anymore.
If Hendry had not given
“No trade clauses” to the assistant head groundskeeper, the top selling peanut vendor and HALF THE FRIGGEN TEAM, we would be able to jettison some players with value and start fresh. But Nooooo, Jimmy handed them out with a free car wash
If I were Tom Ricketts, I would give Lou 2 free months rent at Shady Oaks retirement home and the door. i would then, with Jim at his desk, standing behind him, call all the high price players in an ask them to waive their no trade clauses. I would trade Silva, while he is hot for Good prospects, trade Byrd, while he is hot for good prospects etc. Get a ton of prospects and a low payroll and start over. the team is probably stuck with Soriano and Big Z, but I would love to see a season with a Pirates -like payroll then start over with YOUNG free agents.
You know a lot of these guys
are now 10-and-5ers (Ramirez, Lee, Dempster … any others?), so NTCs really don’t matter at this point.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions
What a junk a55 team. We completely suck
We’ve been swept by the Pirates, and dropped series to Houston and Washington at home… We’re complete junk.
"You win because of the quarterback. We have to get that position stabilized. We're fixated on that." -- Jerry Angelo (12.30.2008)
Jerry Angelo trades for Jay Cutler! (4.2.2009)
.
Washington isn't that bad a team.
Houston, I’ll give you.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I'd also say
the Pirates aren’t as bad as they have been.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
This is what I've been saying.
About 12 of the NL teams are virtually equal to each other, all flawed, all look good at times and really bad at times.
The Cubs are one of those 12. They need a kickstart. You can’t fire all the players.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Quite right
Aside from the Padres, Cardinals, Astros and Phillies, there are a lot of similar teams in the NL right now.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Sometimes...I'd like to.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston is a 100 loss team
if I have ever seen one. I can’t ever remember seeing a team that is so clearly going thru the motions this early in the season. The only guys I saw who are competing are Michael Bourn and Roy Oswalt.
I see where Lance Berkman is saying he would give up his no trade clause. That is saying a lot, considering he grew up in Houston and played college ball there. I expect him to get moved for a couple of prospects.
Sandberg? Maddux? Oy
I’m not so much in favor of handing a top-5 payroll to someone who has never managed in the big leagues — or in Maddux’ case — on any level.
The Sandberg thing feels like it will not end well, as in Yogi Berra not speaking to the Yankees brass for 25 years not well.
I missed the game today — my wife, mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law would not have enjoyed me watching during the various festivities today.
It sounds like it was awful and for all we know, Lou has checked out.
But Exit Lou does not mean Enter Maddux or Sandberg is a better idea. Hell, MIKE Maddux might be better. At least he has coaching experience.
My choices? Brenly isn’t bad. You can do worse than Trammel to finish the year.
Here is what I’d really like to see happen. I’d like to see the Red Sox stage the mother of all comebacks in the AL East and take the Wild Card away from the Yankees. Then, Girardi is liable to be fired and we can hire him.
If we’re going to hire scrappy former Cubs, let’s make it a former catcher.
There is no such thing as an ugly female breast
Don't know about Girardi
But I do like the Brenly idea,
"They found a delivery in my flaw." - Dan Quisenberry
After the game I felt the same thing
I think if the Cubs drop 2 of 3 to Marlins we’re going to see Lou Piniella step down on our off-day.
And we’re not alone on this. I can tell you right now, my friend who is a PA at the MLB Network was asked to get footage for B-Roll of Lou managing the cubs. They don’t have any inside information but it’s just speculation and they want the material ready if they make that announcement.
Two things...
I am not going to get into whether Lou should or shouldn’t be fired. Those who think he should aren’t going to be convinced otherwise, and neither are those (myself included) who thinks that he should stay. Two points that I want to make…
- Hendry should absolutely go first. With the exception of landing Lee and Ramirez from teams looking to slash payroll, I cannot think of much redeeming that he’s done. The man has spent like a drunken sailor and mortgaged the 2007 and 2008 seasons on this past season through the near future. He cannot build a bullpen to save his life (see Remlinger, Grabow, Howry, Gregg, Heilman, Cotts, and Hawkins). He builds a great fantasy league team but at the end of the day, he doesn’t know how to put together a baseball team that can win when they aren’t able to hit the ball out of the ballpark. He finds his offseason target, blows them away with far too much money, and calls it a day. This team is in a very difficult situation over the coming few seasons and I personally want Jim Hendry nowhere near the decision making on how to deal with several overpaid, untradeable players.
- Regarding the “Maddux for manager” idea, I find it interesting that for year, Al, you bashed anyone who suggested Steve Stone for manager, pitching coach, etc, largely based on his lack of experience. I don’t want to turn this into the typical “bash Steve Stone” thread because I am NOT advocating Stone for manager, but the reason you advocate Maddux for manager is the reason that many advocated Stone for manager. I understand that you feel that Stone is egotistical and rubs people the wrong way, but your chief argument against this idea was entrusting the reigns to a guy with no experience. Sorry… but a few weeks of spring coaching doesn’t make him all that much more experienced than Stone.
Agree with you about Hendry.
We might be upset about Lou, but what you said about Hendry is correct. He finds a player he likes, and goes after that player as if there are no other options. So Lou may not be entirely at fault for this.
And you’re right about Hendry’s bullpen decisions. It seems he’s always going after players who have something to prove instead of proven players.
That being said, the decision today is partially on Lou for leaving Dempster in. Is it a fireable offense? That remains to be seen. But more decisions like the one today, I would seem to think it is time for him to go.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions
gaah... forgot to hit reply
Lou should have taken Dempster out of the game. I wonder, though, if this team had an average to above average bullpen, would Lou have made the same decision. A quick look at the box score from the Saturday game, paying particular attention to how the bullpen fared, makes you realize why Lou may have stuck with Dempster. I didn’t want to focus on Lou’s decision because I assume that its been picked apart throughout this thread… but if Lou takes out Dempster and Marshall gives up a three run HR, there are plenty of people criticizing him for lifting a starter who was having a nice game in favor of a bullpen that has been an utter abomination this season.
Yes.
You and I had an argument about this very subject not too long ago. It’s really a no-win scenario for Lou. If he leaves Dempster in and Demp gives up the HR, he gets blamed for not taking Demp out. If he takes Dempster out and goes to Marshall, and then Marshall gives up the home run, Lou gets blasted for going to the bullpen.
This is a very difficult no-win situation.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
yup...
… and I would have lifted Dempster… I was saying that as I was listening to the game on the radio. Gotta see if Marshall or Russell are able to pitch effectively in relief. IMO it was fairly cut and dry… however I can’t totally blame Piniella and I understand why he stuck with Dempster.
But that doesn't really address the issue
If Lou had brought in Marshall and say Marshall gets Votto and gives up a double to Rolen, scoring two and the Cubs lose 4-3. Al would be posting, why did they take Dempster out? He was pitching well only gave up 5 hits, etc etc.
And would you chime in with the fact that you wanted him to remove Dempster even though it didn’t work out?
I doubt it.
Leaving in Dempster was a bad move but not even on my top 10 of Lou's mismanagement this year
I have to say the real FU moment for me was batting Nady cleanup last week. While the impact was virtutally non-existant compared to Dempster giving up a 3 run jack, the move itself was about as stupid as I can imagine. You bat a guy hitting .175 who has mainly been sitting on the bench at CLEAN UP. A healthy Nady does not bad clean up. Now I grant you the batting order is a bit overrated but the thinking behind this move defies any logic. Not like there where no hitters with more power or better average available. LIke many of Lou’s moves such as putting in Marshall with a 6 run lead, pinch hitting Hill for Soto, letting Colvin mostly rot on the bench after promising to start him a couple of times a week, giving Tracy exactly two starts despite Ramirez being in an epic slump, it is not just bad strategy , it has the added bonus of telling a whole lot of players how little you trust them, what little faith you have in their abilities.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm simply not impressed
by complaints about managerial decisions after the fact. I just went back and checked the game thread and the only person who posted when Lou went to the mound said “Leave Demp in, Lou!”. There was nobody who posted that Lou should take him out.
But, I did learn something from the game day thread that I didn’t know. Lou brought in Marshall specifically to face Votto in last night’s game and Marshall walked him on 5 pitches.
Yet another argument for leaving Demp in.
Heck I was not even watching
but I can tell you I complained about the moves above as they were happening some on line and some muttering to myself at home.
One thing I learned from the thread is that Brenly freaked out when Lou let Demp stay in an pitch to Votto. I seem to recall your liking Brenly and he certainly was compaining BEFORE the HR.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Yup
and that is why I like him.
First guessing is much more impressive than second guessing. Second guessing is for losers. While I take you at your word that you complained before the home run, I feel compelled to point out that you are disqualified because you complain about ALL of Lou’s moves, whether they work out or not.
by azjazzman on May 10, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
No I did NOT complain, I was NOT watching
I complained about Nady batting clean up and the other moves mentioned above.
Not to mention two years worth ( yes it all started at that Phillies game in April of 08) of watching him not plan ahead, obsess over righty /lefty match ups and have no clue how to use a bullpen.
Thing is when I do "first " guess it almost always turns out to be true.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:35 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't get how people can say Lou never plans ahead
Then complain about how he doesn’t use his entire bullpen. Does he only not plan ahead concerning the offense?
DS is obsessed
with saving players in case a close game goes into extra innings.
I tend to favor the “let’s win this thing now, so it never gets to extra innings” approach, which I think is also Lou’s approach. Yeah, once in awhile you may get caught short of players if the thing does go overtime, but I prefer the more aggressive style of managing.
And dmlichte and I have exited stage right on this one.
I’ll leave this one for you and Doggie Stalker to argue over.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 10, 2010 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions
I never complained about his NOT using the bullpen
I complain that he overuses some pitchers and exiles others to Siberia. He overuses BOTH
the bullpen and the bench and runs out of options. When you run out of your entire bench in one game in 9 innings of one game and all but one position player in the other in 9 innings you are NOT planning. ( The Phillie game I obsess on and the Marmol one mentioned above).
Your damn right I am obsessed because he keeps doing the same stuff over and over and it is not exactly been working the last two seasons.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
FYI Shoemile & Jazzman
Do you starting Scales last September was a good move?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:00 AM CDT up reply actions
What were the other options?
Hoffpauir (triple A), Fox (told he had no future with this team by Hendry), Fuld (triple A…sorry), Colvin (Only up for emergencies, otherwise he wouldn’t have been replacing a 37 year old SO TAGUCHI).
Good move? Probably not. But irrelevant as well.
I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole
other than to say that the Cubs played themselves out of contention last August and what Lou did or didn’t do in September doesn’t mean a whole lot.
I’ve always suspected that there was a story behind the story re: Scales, but I have no idea what it is.
It mattered because the Cubs WERE OUT OF IT
and that is exactly when every other team plays YOUNG players , yes even the AAA kind. The point is to get younger players more time so you can evaluate them. You don’t play career minor leaguers who are not even outfielders.
FYI Shoemile Toguchi was gone, Colvin was his replacement.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:10 AM CDT up reply actions
It's not the first or last time
a team gave a career minor leaguer a shot in September when they were not in a pennant race. That is why I say, maybe there is a story behind the story.
Apparently
that lack of playing time in 2009 didn’t stunt Colvin’s development.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I assume.
Of all the retreads Lou could play, he decided to give the guy with the most service time the opportunity. As a favor, nothing more.
OK I give up
It was a great move to play Scales daily in September. It was genius to have Nady bat clean up and let Dempster stay in, pinch hit Hill for Soto.
I guess the only thing I am missing is how this brilliant guy has never one a single post season game for the Cubs ( unlike the much maligned Dusty) and why the team has done so poorly for the last two seasons. I mean a guy this smart should be able to get any group of players to win.
OFF TO BED.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not claiming he's made a bunch of good moves
Just that everything that doesn’t work out is not proof he’s an idiot. And also you’re strange refusal to pin any of the team’s problems on the general manager, other than his failure to exercise any of his power, which apparently is alright to you. That’s absolutely baffling to me, but hey, we all have our own opinions.
Hope you have a nice Monday, Doggie.
'So poorly'?
97 games one season and 83 in a season in which almost everything went wrong?
Talk about a lack of perspective, Jess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions
One note before hitting the hay
I meant last year and THIS year as the last “two” seasons.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, but this season
is only 20 percent finished.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Taguchi was gone after injury.
Which is exactly my point. If they wanted Colvin up for anything other than an emergency backup, then wouldn’t they have disregarded a 37 year old with no future with the club and initially brought up Colvin? Tyler was coming off a TJ surgery (if I recall). The club was being cautious. He wasn’t meant to play much, if at all.
At some point, some of your blame needs to go to the guy sailing the ship, aka Hendry. And not because he concedes too much to managers.
Weren't you the one
applauding Hendry for keeping a player on the roster, even though he was not going to play, so he could accrue enough roster time to qualify for the MLB pension? I may have the details wrong, but I think it was something like that.
Maybe the Scales thing was something along those lines. Who knows? What real difference does it make? So Colvin missed out on a few at bats…he has his future in front of him. Scales is what, early 30s? That may have been his one shot.
At least give me credit by not calling you the “S” word.
I have no problem rewarding a guy with a roster spot in September
That is a good thing to do for a reward. I have a HUGE problem playing him every day over younger players and OUT OF POSITION. It took about
4 balls over Scales’ head for Lou to finally stop putting him out there.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions
The fact that they got him into the lineup
even if it meant playing him out of position lends credence to the “back story” theory. He is normally a 3rd baseman, right? It’s not like they are going to sit Aramis.
I seem to remember that Scales also made an outstanding catch in one game.
"back story"
What he had pictures of Lou and Hendry in bed together?
Every stupid move of Lou’s has some back story us mere mortals are not privy too.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:29 AM CDT up reply actions
The only thing that strikes me as somewhat stupid
is carping over the managing in one game in a season where your team wins 97 games, or over giving a particular player 61 ABs in September when your team is going nowhere.
Those games were in 08
And the Cubs were lucky to win them with Lou’s bad calls but luck only takes you so far . Eventually the chickens come home to roost .
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
You do complain about Lou all the time, Jess
I guess the Cubs were just lucky they won the division in 2007 and ’08? And Lou was lucky to win 116 games with the Mariners one season and a WS with the Reds another season?
Only Cubs fans would want to crucify the most successful manager of most of their lifetimes.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't speak for the Mariner years
And while this maybe hard to believe I had no problem in 07. Yes it was the game in Philly that turned me around. I know I was a nut case complaining about a guy who won 97 games, but I was. He had a much better roster especially bullpen to work with which is fine but when he really needed to be a manager to use his resources to the best effect , he failed. He wins polls of players who don’t want to be on his team and freezes out players who in more than a few cases go on success with other teams.
I think Lou’s style of managing just does not work anymore. I hope he can take his World Series ring and enjoy his retirement in FLorida. I don’t expect that to happen , but it would improve the Cubs.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions
The one where he used the entire bench in 9 inning tied road game
Cubs won on an error in the 10th with Z pinch hitting but that is the game I always refer to because no competant manager who does think ahead uses EVERY position player in a 9 inning road game( or home for that matte). After that I watched how often Lou was overusing the bench and the bullpen.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh, now I remember
Mostly I remember it because of all your complaining about it. Only Cubs fans would complain after a victory like that.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd
No kidding
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Let's stop blaming the fans
for their perception. Last year the Cubs were 19 games over versus Milw, Pitt, Hou and Cinn. Against the rest of the teams they were 14 games under. This year they can’t even beat those sad sacks…Brewers excepted. Just as the fans were earlier to the dance on Baker and Baylor, so are they on Lou. All three managers were players managers who continued to overplay underperforming veterans while the team floundered. I love Lee and Rami, but it’s long past time that we see them sitting more often and certainly not dragging the middle of the order into a black hole,
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I don't disagree
Lou should have taken Dempster out of the game. I wonder, though, if this team had an average to above average bullpen, would Lou have made the same decision. A quick look at the box score from the Saturday game, paying particular attention to how the bullpen fared, makes you realize why Lou may have stuck with Dempster. I didn’t want to focus on Lou’s decision because I assume that its been picked apart throughout this thread… but if Lou takes out Dempster and Marshall gives up a three run HR, there are plenty of people criticizing him for lifting a starter who was having a nice game in favor of a bullpen that has been an utter abomination this season.
by dmlichte on May 9, 2010 9:46 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
If Grabow is brought in
then he’s subject to criticism. Marshall has a history of success…not so much.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
The thing that is getting missed
is that it was not that bad a pitch that Dempster threw to Votto. It was down and in, which is risky with some left handed hitters, but it’s not liked he grooved one down the middle. Al’s comment about that Lou “turned around and let Dempster throw a fat one” is hardly fair…or accurate.
down and in
has long been a hotspot for LH power hitters.
Look the thing that make me maddest about not making the switch is this is exactly why Z was moved to the pen. Marshall brought in to get one out the eight would be Z and then the 9th Marmol. That’s what makes this frustrating because its basically saying the other decisions before now well i don’t believe in them.
At that point
in the game, Dempster had held the Reds to 2 runs on 5 hits, 111 pitches. He got Votto out three times previously in the game, striking him out the last time. Marshall had pitched the previous two nights.
It really wasn’t that surprising Lou left Ryan in.
I can quite confidently say that Al wasn't the only one who felt this way...
It’s a no-brainer, right?
I was listening on the radio and felt the “Oh hell, this doesn’t end well…” in the pit of my stomach. You know the feeling. It was palpable in this instance. I think Pat remarked on his velocity being off. He was at 111 pitches – in his previous three starts he’d been gone before that, and when he HAS stayed that far in to a game thus far this season, it was around there that things fell apart.
Dempster should have gone. We knew it. Lou should have as well.
٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ Dum spiro spero... | Twitter: @andrewjstone.
by AndrewJStone on May 9, 2010 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Way too easy
to say that now.
There have been times when Al (and others) complained about Lou taking out starters who were pitching well. The bullpen has struggled all season. With Marshall having pitched the two previous nights, you would rather not use him. If you do, then it means he likely is unavailable tomorrow. And it was only the 7th inning, which means more stress on the overworked bullpen. Sometimes you have to manage with tomorrow’s game in mind, as well as today’s.
Marshall had thrown
only 20 pitches in those 2 games. And I question why he was brought into a game with us leading 10-4. Dempster’s worst inning is #7 where his tOPS+ is 188. Votto is .265 vs LHP and .342 vs RHP.
Look at the numbers and history and we know desperately need him out. Now, what is the appropriate decision? This isn’t about Monday morning quarterbacking. It’s about another terrible choice by Lou leading to a terrible result.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
20 pitches
+ warming up in 3 consecutive games. For a reliever, that is arm stress without the recovery time that a starter gets. Most teams do not like to use a reliever more than two consecutive games, no matter what number of pitches is thrown.
If you believe no sane manager would
use a reliever in 3 straight games, then you must believe no sane manager would warm up a reliever that 3rd day. The fact that Marshall was already warmed and ready to enter the game to face Votto makes your logic nonsense. Remember Hernandez had already doubled off the wall and the Cubs were lucky to get him at 3rd on a bunt attempt. Then Cabrera had singled sharply to right off Dempster. It’s not like Ryan was mowing them down.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I'm not calling you out
But you (and others) are claiming Lou should’ve used Marshall as a LOOGY. Hasn’t that been a huge beef with his management?
It has :D
By me, as well. But if you’re gonna do it anyway, that was the time for it.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
True, but Clutch
He hasn’t done it this year(sans a few days ago…i think). I dunno, I just don’t get fans expectations I suppose.
Marshall was used as a LOOWGY as long ago as yesterday. That was the first time he’s only faced one batter in 2010, although he has shown up to only get 1 out 3 other times this year.
Side note: Marshall’s appeared in 17 games already this year. When I call him Lou’s Binky, I’m not joking. He seems to have graduated from staff LOOGY, though.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
My claim was simply
bring in Marshall because he’s our best middle inning guy. The fact that Votto bats almost 100 points lower against LHP is a bonus, That at bat was the most critical on our trip since we were 1-4 at the time and had just taken the lead. Dempster was getting knocked around that inning.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
It IS monday morning QBing
I just gave the reasons that indicate it was a reasonable choice. If Dempster had gotten Votto, as he had the three previous at bats, nobody would be saying anything about it. It’s only because he didn’t that you now way it was a “terrible choice”, which it wasn’t.
Again, that's nonsense
Was Brenly quarterbacking when he made the call before the fact? The same goes for many Cub fans who were amazed Dempster was allowed to continue. Perhaps you feel most of the criticism leveled is done by an ignorant mob but that’s certainly not the truth in this case.
It was a horrible decision by Lou. Regrettably, he has made far too many of them im his pitching decisions.
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
I can tell you why
Marshall was brought into a game leading 10-4. My son and I were at the D’Backs game that night, and the score of Cubs 14 Reds 4 was on the out of town scoreboard, and the guy sitting next to us leaned over and said “Think the Cubs bullpen can blow it?”, and we both nodded yes. No sooner had that happened when the 4 changed to a 7 and we all chuckled.
Sorry but you do NOT bring up your best non closer with a six run lead.
Now if they put in Berg, Grabow Russell etc and they gave up a few runs then you have the option to put in Marshall but not to START an inning with a six run lead. He did this with Marmol in 08 and Marmol blew a six run lead in the 9th inning because Lou just left him in. Marmol was the closer at the time and never did pitch well in such situations. Oh and Marshall was fully warmed up by the last 3 batters. The Cubs did manage to win in the 10th so I guess it was OK to let Marmol give up the six runs.
Oh and you have an expination for batting Nady at clean up too?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
I *think* she is talking
about using a closer in a non-close situation.
Teams do it sometimes when they think a closer needs work.
I don’t know if that was the case here, but in any event, utilizing bullpens is not as cut and dried or as easy as people like to think it is. There are myriad stats that a manager has access to. Some pitchers do not pitch well in back to back games, even if they only throw a few pitches in the first one. Some do better when they start an inning than if they come in in the middle. Some do better with the bases empty, etc etc.
BTW, I don’t know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I found it REALLY interesting that Zambrano is pitching out of the stretch even with nobody on base.
I've never been a pitcher at a high level
But it seems kind of strange that some do worse in non save situations than save. The rest argument I get. The runners on vs. bases empty I get as well, and the stats also debunk Doggie’s previous claim that Marmol does better with runners on than without, but that doesn’t jive with her Piniella witch hunt, so she’ll ignore that.
I agree with you about the stats mention, and would also like to add injuries as well. In a game early on everyone freaked about Silva being taken out early and immediately called Lou an idiot, and then it came out postgame that Carlos was hurting. No one said much about that, though.
Hadn’t noticed Z and the stretch. Any theories?
Yes that is what I meant.
He was not in need of any work and in fact it was his last game before the All Star Game for which he had been selected. That was one of the most paiinful game I watched even thought the Cubs did win. Not only did Marshall pitch two scoreless innings for the win, he got a hit which lead to the winning run. Lou let him bat for himself since he had used the entire rest of the bullpen
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I think I was at that game
That was Harden’s debut, if I recall. Marmol made a brutal throwning error. Guess he used up his bullpen like you’ve pined for.
My point was
Why was Marmol in at all? He did NOT need the work and he was going to the All Star game. After he was in why in the world let him stay in when he was blowing big lead?
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Honestly, I don't know
Maybe there’s a good reason, maybe there’s not. I just wish we knew what Lou’s line of thinking was. I know you think that him being an idiot is why, but personally, I’d be interested in hearing his logic, whether it makes him a fool or not.
Wasn't Marmol having control problems around that time?
One thing I do know, Marmol’s pitching mechanics are MUCH different today than they were at the beginning of 2009. Maybe when he was having control problems, they worked to change his mechanics and they wanted to give him an opportunity to pitch in a game that was not close to see how the mechanics would work in a real game.
Did that ever occur to you?
Oh right that was the plan
Have him give up five runs (not six so obviously it was OK) throw 36 pitches and blow a large lead in the 9th despite another pitcher being fully warmed up and ready to go in. I am sure that game did wonders for his mechanics.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions
You can dismiss it if you want
but I think it is a very plausible explanation.
No, not to give up 5 runs, but to give him a chance to pitch to live batters AFTER they had worked on his mechanics. In a game that was non-save. Obviously they were hoping for better results, but at least they got him the work and it didn’t cost them a game.
As I recall, with the reworked mechanics, Marmol came out much stronger after the AS break last year, and his walk total decreased substantially, which lends even more credence.
I'm not the biggest Piniella fan
but I have a hard time believing he is an idiot, given the success that he has enjoyed as a manager.
Which is fair
Although, if I, personally, am to be fair (and I know you’re talking about Piniella’s career record, not just with the Cubs), I do criticize Hendry’s role in all of this (with a payroll that dwarfs any other NL Central team), so I must admit that Lou isn’t living up to expectations at this point either.
He is not an idiot
He is stubborn man who refuses to deal with anything except the way he has always done things because the book says righty must face lefty, then righty must face lefty and you don’t coddle those pitchers you just go out and tell them to throw strikes. Some people adjust but Lou just figures if he keeps doing the same thing eventually it will work.
I don’t doubt he knows more about baseball than all but a few hundred people on the planet, but that does not make him a good manger, especially for this team.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Actually he was still a problem after the AS break
He settled down in August but even with your theory that they wanted to work on his mechanics, why is he left in to throw 36 pitches and give up 5 runs.
Marshall was literally standing their in the bullpen waiting. He had already thrown all the warm up pitches he needed.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Not true
Marmol walked about half as many batters post AS game as he did pre All Star game in 2009. His lowest monthly walk total was in July. He also had his lowest WHIP in July.
The point is: you drastically change a guy’s mechanics and a live game is the laboratory where you find out if it is going to work. You expect him to struggle with release point, etc., and that you will need to do further tweaking. That is why you put him in a game where you have a nice lead AND probably leave him in a little longer than you might otherwise.
It makes perfect sense, and you are just being stubborn in not acknowledging that.
You said he was put in a game with 5 run lead
to improve his mechanics and that right after that his mechanics improved as if to justify keeping him in to throw the 36 pitches and give up 5 runs. In fact for rest of July ( that game was on the July 12) he walked 6 batters in 6 innings throwing over 30 pitches in two of the his 5 appearances and over twenty in two of the others. He most definitely did not have a sudden improvement in his mechanics after his disastrous appearance on the 12th.
You never leave a guy in to give up a five run lead and throw 36 pitches when you have a good & fully warmed up pitcher available.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions
That isn't what I said at all
In fact, I clarified what I said already for your benefit, since you seemed to be having difficulty understanding.
You don’t put somebody in the game to improve their mechanics. Marmol was struggling with his control in the first half of 2009. His mechanics were pretty bad, an observation I made after seeing him in ST. They obviously worked on it with him, improving his balance, getting him to have a more repeatable release point, etc.
The ultimate test is to put him in a game with a hitter, umpire, etc., see if he can be successful and repeatable with the new mechanics.
None of this happens overnight, it is a process. But, there is no question that after the All Star break in 2009, Marmol mechanics were much different (Brenly commented on it several times on TV) and his walks were reduced almost by half.
Those facts are indisputable. I have speculated that perhaps this might explain them using him in a seemingly odd manner in that one game just before the AS break that you cite over and over. Neither you are I can know for sure if that was the case, but it is a plausible explanation.
The fact that you are incapable of conceding that the one incident that has triggered rants from you about Lou for almost two years now might have an explanation only shows that you have made up your mind and are unwilling to listen to reason.
And just for the record…you have called Lou an idiot…more than once.
Um the game in question was in 2008 not 2009
If I harp often on the same disasterous games, you seem incapable of admitting that Lou could ever make a wrong decision. That great baseball wisdom went into his decisions to use every position player in 9 innings in Philly, to let Marmol give up 5 runs and throw 36 pitches, to use Marshall with a six run lead, to play Scales in Sept, to let Dempster stay in yesteday and I am sure you must know what was behind having Nady bat cleanup last week.
I go back to many of the same games because I am too tired & lazy to look up the dozens and dozens of other ones where he has done similar things. If it were just a few isolated instances than it would be no big deal but it is seeing him do the same thing over and over game that does not work but he won’t change it.
Neither of us will “win” because you will always see some
well thought out strategic move, which somehow never seems to work and I will see a stubborn man incapable of using and trusting players as he should. To me Lou just goes by a book
which is long out of date.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact that the game was in 2008
makes this whole discussion laughable. My suggested explanation is invalidated, because it was 2009 that Marmol changed his mechanics.
OTOH, I think we just come from different places. I assume that someone who has been in baseball as long as Lou has, knows what he is doing.
For some reason, you assume the opposite.
And apparently, the fact that Lou has the best winning percentage of any Cubs manager since Charlie Grimm in the 1930’s doesn’t sway you any.
So you think we should use our
best middle reliever whenever we have a 6 run lead in the 7th? Sorry, I don’t subscribe to that foolishness. And if you take a poll of fans, I doubt you would get much support. Just when do we use the rest of the staff?
If a quality pitching start is 3 runs and 6 innings, then a quality hitting day is 1 for 4.
Not on Lou; Not on Hendry
Blame them all you want, it’s the guys on the field that are to blame for this mess. Blame Dempster for throwing a cookie to Votto in a key situation, not Lou for failing to have the crystal ball out that the cookie was on its way.
Fact of the matter is, while it would be convenient to dismiss Piniella, Hendry…or both…by no means would that cure the incurable…the complete and utter apathy and lethargy that currently permeates that clubhouse. A new manager isn’t going to revive the once-feared bats of Lee and Ramirez. It’s time to admit reality, that many of these once-talented players quite simply are no longer that talented.
And the funniest thing of all? Not one thread of this colossal mess of a season can be blamed on Milton Bradley. But what a great clubhouse this club now has.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
It's the manager's SINGLE BIGGEST RESPONSIBLITY to use players effectively.
Lou hasn’t done that.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
this
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Green'ed.
I didn't believe it last August, but it turns out that love survives.
"To [Vermont Cubs Fan], good luck, stay strong!"
-Captain Richard Phillips-
by Vermont Cubs Fan on May 9, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
And also the GM's responsibility to give the manager effective players
Jim hasn’t done that either. They both need to go.
Laughable
Hindsight thinking of course. I’m sure you were first on the doorstep for replacing Lee and Ramirez with barely replacement level players like Fontenot, Tracy and Nady.
Makes no difference whether it’s Piniella or someone else, this team is doomed because its players are simply not good enough. End of story.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
We would have won AT LEAST 3 more games already THIS YEAR if Shark and Soto had been used properly.
Shark not at all, and Soto more often and higher in the lineup.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
this again
and lee and rami out of the middle of the order until they get back on track
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 9, 2010 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair...
Lou couldn’t really have moved Lee or Ramirez until after the first 3 weeks.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 9, 2010 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston and Baltimore have "colossal messes" so far
The Cubs don’t.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 9, 2010 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions
while there may be some hyperbole there
When you have the highest payroll in the NL and only two teams have better winning percentages, well, things aren’t looking too great.
Actually 9 teams have worse winning percentages
and unlike Baltimore and Houston a few of them were expected to be competative ( Angels, Braves, Mariners, White Sox). Let’s just misery needs and has company .
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 9, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Uhhh....
Well, unless of course you consider Baltimore’s minor league pitching pipeline to be a mess, which it cleary isn’t, then I’ll give you Houston. Categorize what is happening in Chicago however you want…this team is going nowhere. And it’s been in a freefall since 2008…but keep using the “it’s early” excuse if you wish. Ignorance is bliss.
"When the day comes with that last winning run and I'm crying and covered in beer. I'll look to the sky and know I was right to think someday we'll go all the way." - Vedder
If ignorance is bliss,
it appears you must be a pretty happy person.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions
What are Houston and Baltimore's pay rolls?
How long did either team win a playoff game?
(This story was produced by BCPDnewservice. Our motto: If you don’t like this story then suck it!)
by BrewCrew'sPrinceofDarkness on May 9, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Sleepwalking through last season
should’ve got him fired in the off-season. Not using Marshall today against Votto was indefensible.
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
I agree with you
He slept through most of last season, and yes, there were injuries but he really seemed to lose fire last year which has now seeped into this year.
A “sleepwalk through the game” malaise has descended onto this team.
The 2010 Randy Hundley Fantasy Camp ruled!!!!
This team
needs a young, motivated, energetic manager. Hmm….Girardi would’ve been nice!
''I'm really not a Facebook or Twitter guy. I'm a prime rib and baked potato guy.'' - Sweet Lou
I guess we can now stop blaming Milton Bradley
for the poor showing last year. Nothing has changed this year and the argument for clubhouse chemistry is pure crap. A good team needs good fundamental players.
We all thought the trade of Bradley
was addition by subtraction, maybe that same rule applies to Piniella. Bradley was a punk and needed to go, but I’m sure until this year they were glad to have a scapegoat for their dismal play last year.
by troutfishin on May 10, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions
By the looks of him
he probably just needs a doughnut
by troutfishin on May 10, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
The "Hendry/doughnut" crap is old and not funny.
Let’s stop, OK? There are plenty of problems with this team that can be reasonably discussed without resorting to middle-school insults.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
by Al Yellon on May 10, 2010 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Give me a break
that’s a lot tamer compared to the insults that people level against each other on this very site.
I suppose.
I’ve called people out on those, too. You can criticize without insulting, I think.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
I know I'm talking to myself but I'm on a late night roll
Ricketts is a business man, correct? What matters more to a smart business man, money or customer satisfaction? Both matter because they go hand in hand, but what if you were in a business that you didn’t have to worry about customer satisfaction in direct relation to the product? What if the satisfaction was simply derived from from the three hour visits an Iowa hayseed paid to his or her favorite museum at 1060 w Addison.
To me, until Ricketts stops worrying about expanding ballpark advertisements, and at least waiting until the Cubs ACTUALLY WIN SOMETHING BEFORE RAISING TICKET PRICES TO MLB RECORD LEVELS than he is doing nothing more than paying lip service to the fans when he says he is as much of a fan of the Cubs as any of us.
Ricketts or anyone else with the cash to buy this team knew they would be getting a cash cow, all because of some damn bricks and ivy. I say fire Piniella, build a new stadium, demolish Wrigley and then lets see if the wannabees still show up. Until then Ricketts is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank.
by troutfishin on May 10, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions
That's my point
that would be the challenge. Is customer satisfaction at Wrigley derived from the museum like ambiance or the product on the field. Considering the way this team has played seven out of the last ten years I would choose the former rather than the latter. I don’t give a damn about the tourists satisfaction of a demolished Wrigley, I just want ownership to be in a position that the only way they make money is determined by how many games they win and I don’t see that happening as long as Wrigley exists. It’s just easy money, It’s like taking candy from a baby.
by troutfishin on May 10, 2010 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
What's the point of making it harder for them to profit?
I want them to make gads of money so they can spend it on payroll, scouting, drafts, etc. I think your idea handicaps the team. If things go sour for whatever reason, how are they to get better if the money’s not coming in? I have faith that Tom and his family were being honest when they claimed profits will be put back into the team, and the largest profits will come from Wrigley.
Money is an intoxicating drug
especially if it can be earned so easily. Ricketts knows he doesn’t have to do anything with this team other than spend a few dollars here and there, but make know mistake, the revenue he’s trying to raise through advertisements and ticket increases is to pay for the albatross contracts that still exist.
by troutfishin on May 10, 2010 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree
But can’t they also be a way to keep the payroll at its current level in the future?
It seems revenge is a big motive
for some Cubs fans.
They want to see the team finish in last place and they want Wrigley demolished, just so that will “force” them to do something. As if they aren’t trying to do anything already.
Sometimes I wonder what 2003 wrought among the Cubs fan base. I think the higher expectations are a good thing, but sometimes I wonder if it’s gotten out of hand.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, but NBF
It’s not as though the expectations came from out of nowhere. The ownership is throwing much, much more money into the payroll. Their expectations are higher based on their increasing advantage due to higher investment, and thus we the fans follow suit.
Oh, no doubt,
but money doesn’t guarantee you anything in baseball. Look how long the Yankees went without a WS despite throwing tons of cash at the team. And look at how Minnesota always seems to be right there despite a low payroll.
A lot of the same fans that now are bitching about Soriano’s contract or Z’s deal or Ramirez were praising the Cubs to the skies when they were signed.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I can't speak for other fans, obviously
But you’re talking aberrations. The teams who spend money are normally the most successful.
And it’s true about the fans, but what’s it matter? Neither you nor I are getting paid a million bones annually to make baseball decisions.
Would be nice if we did
even if our decisions sucked. :)
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:38 AM CDT up reply actions
Ramirez is the exception to that rule.
No one has ever complained about his deal. None that I know of. He has been the most solid hitting 3B in the NL for years. He will rise again before the All-Star break, but by then who knows where will be.
With Z and Soriano, Hendy outbid himself, and yes, people complained the whole way.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on May 10, 2010 1:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Those were necessary evils
in Soriano’s case, based on what the team did in 2006. He was the premier guy out there that season, and the Cubs got him. I’m not sure Hendry outbid himself on either of those. Are you saying nobody else wanted to sign those guys?
And if he let them walk, then what? People would be screaming bloody murder, that’s what.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Soriano as "Premier guy"
In what way was he superior to JD Drew?
Going into 2007, Soriano was coming off a career year that was essentially equal to JD Drew’s average year.
Plus, Drew is lefthanded and capable of playing CF.
Both players had somewhat negative reputations clubhouse-wise, but in both cases, there aren’t really any known incidents – more like media-driven animosity.
Obviously, Soriano got way more in terms of years and $$. I just have no idea why.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Cause Drew had a long history of injuries
and was a noted asshole who had clashed with the front office people every where he had been. You can disagree with the Soriano signing but Drew was not even in his league numbers wise. Drew averaged 200 fewer at bats per season than Soriano in their previous six seasons. I woult think that would be reason #1
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
Me either Jim
by Doggie Stalker on May 10, 2010 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
NBF,
I personally don’t have anything against Wrigley except for the face that ownership hasn’t had to do much since 1984 except count the cash. They haven’t had to work for it because of Wrigley being elevated to a shrine. Look at the first thing Ricketts did, ballpark renovations and didn’t do a damn thing with this team.
sue369...you missed the point
Without “tourists” or “Iowa Hayseeds”(as I called them) seeking some sort of puritan baseball experience, Ricketts or any other Cubs owner would have to EARN their money the hard way, like figuring out how to put a quality product on the field.
Dude it's the
Iowa hayseed reference I resent. Couldn’t you have made your point without using Iowa hayseed?
Uncalled for and Ridiculous
- Lou has turned 3 – 2 games over to the bullpen all year and watched them fall apart. I am certain that the idea of using Z in back to back games, after he threw so many pitches last night, was an issue. So, therefore Marshall was going to need to be used sparingly in the 8th. Berg was sacrificed last night for 35+ pitches, Caridad cannot be trusted yet, and Russell is still unproven in big game situations. Dempster had already struck out Votto twice in this game, and he was 2 – 9 lifetime.
- No one on this site, no one in the Cubs organization, no one in Chicago thought that Ramirez and Lee, the backbone of this team, would suck so much this year. Lou has been far more flexible with the lineup than I thought he would be, moving Ramirez down to 5 and even 6 in the lineup. If you take a look at each and every competitive team in this division and our league, every one of them has powerful 3 – 4 to rely on when that top of the order comes back around. Lou has not been able to rely on any scoring from anyone other than Byrd. A-Ram and Lee had a collective 1 RBI this entire road trip, and that includes a 14 – 7 romp on Friday night.
- Firing Lou, for having making the most of a team with no leadoff man, no heavy hitting middle of the order, and aging veteran corp that is falling off the edge of the wrong side of their careers, and a bullpen who took a month, and 19 million dollars to figure out, is BS. If they fire Lou, Alan Tramell, Bob Brenly, or god forbid, Ryne Sandburg will not make Ramirez see the ball better, will not help Fuke perform after April, will not make a silk purse out of a mediocre bullpen, and he will certainly not provide any on the field vocal leadership that this team is lacking.
Now, all that said, Soto is wasted in the 7th spot, Lefty/Righty matchups are over rated, and Colvin needs to play more. But, none of these things are any different than gripes other fans have from every other city.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on May 10, 2010 1:15 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Lots of good stuff, LLC
I think Dempster should have come out, but I can see the other side of it.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Lost in the shuffle here
But brought up in the Game Threads – why do you pitch to Votto at all in that situation? There’s debate about what it means when a player does better than average against a particular team, but the fact is that before Votto’s moonshot today, he had 59 major league home runs, and 13 of them were against the Cubs. With him playing against 5 other opponents as often as he plays us, he still had hit 22% of his career dingers against Cubs pitching. Add in playing at home in a bandbox and the fact that there was a base open, why are you tempted to throw even one in a decent spot for him to drive it?
Pitch around the Cub-Killer. Let Scott “2-11 in the series” Rolen try to be the one who beats you, instead.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Votto struggled all day.
Dempster was owning him. Maybe they were going to be careful with him, who knows. But, I don’t think that Demp put the ball where he wanted anyways. That pitch may have been meant to be up and in or high and outside, but certainly not down and in to a LH power hitter.
Plus, do you put the lead runner in scoring position purposefully?
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on May 10, 2010 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I think this nails it
I think Dempster wanted that pitch just a bit further inside, but it caught a little too much of the plate. I think the fact that Votto had gone 0-3 against Demp to that point was a big factor, along with Demp saying he wasn’t tired.
Non-factor in the game, yes
Non-factor in the series? To the extent that Rolen had been? Hardly. Yesterday, when everyone was teeing off on Cubs pitching, Rolen went 0-4. He was as close to an automatic out as we were getting all series long. And today? 0-4 again.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
But purposefully put the lead runner in scoring position by walking Votto
A bleeder, a (sorry Hawk) duck snort, a groundball with eyes, and the Reds lead. Pitch to Votto. He is not Pujols. He is a guy who had already stuggled against Ryan all day. Ryan could have thrown that ball about 1 million other places, but he put it the one place you just can’t.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on May 10, 2010 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Good point
I don’t think you want to put the lead run in scoring position intentionally in that situation.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions
And I wasn't advocating an IBB
I was advocating not giving him anything to drive.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
Got it
But Rolen ain’t exactly chopped liver, either.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:46 AM CDT up reply actions
He was sucking wind in this series
I thanked him early in the game for being the only guy we could get out on a consistent basis.
"Who ever heard of the Cubs losing a game they had to have?" -Frank Chance
"If [Ruth] had [called his shot], I would have knocked him down with the next pitch." -Charlie Root
I hear you
It’s a good point, too. But too many bad things can happen with the bases loaded.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 10, 2010 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions
This 1-5 roadtrip was the grenade in Lou's tent...
…a Mother’s Day present from a team that likely is tired of playing for a legendary hardass. Although he likely softened his approach last year after the Bradley dugout incident, preserving a winning season and his job in the process, the new Lou apparently has lost Lee, Ramirez and Zambrano in the process. When a tough boss lightens up, the change eventually is perceived as weakness.
Brenly may seem the most qualified replacement, but if he gets the job, local and national sports media will have a great time resurrecting the 50-year-old Phil Wrigley idiocy of Boudreau taking over from the broadcast booth. What may be the most intelligent move would instantly be treated as a joke by fans, media, and players alike. Also, Bob carries some of Lou’s baggage as a high pressure guy from an older generation.
Ryno also appears to be another hard-driving presence from a previous era, who likely has intimidated or offended some of the more sensitive players now on the big club. On paper, he’s earned the job, but I assume we’re trying to win something this year.
Consequently, I agree that Maddux is worth a gamble, although I’m surprised to hear he wants the job. Right away, we know he can succeed in the three most important areas for any manager: handling the pitching staff; releasing pressure on the veteran stars; and avoiding major strategic errors.
Lou’s been a great manager here and elsewhere, and I hoped he’d be the new version of Casey ‘58. Unfortunately, he’s doing a good impression of Durocher ’72.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
Agree
Agree it’s time to get rid of Lou.
But not for Maddux. I love Greg don’t get me wrong but he hasn’t even managed a girl scout troop let alone any level of baseball.
Also I don’t think from what I read Greg is interested in a full time baseball job right now. If he was he’d be doing something FT with the Cubs now.
Either it’s time for Ryno or give Trammel the rest of the season to possibly reestablish himself a a managerial candidate not here but elsewjere.
Hendry goes to a business here where the assistant to the owners and kind of managger (it’s a long story) is named Ryne. Maybe he can be inspired by this to do this now! (yes the young man is named after Sandberg).
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
Not sure
why so many want to blow this team up. Only a couple are not producing at all. Obviously none of us know what the “real” problem is but that won’t fix it. I’m not convinced canning Lou will, but I think the season is still salvageable if something is done soon. Oh and ernaga please don’t remind me of the ‘72 season, that’s when I contracted this addiction to the Cubs.
Once Ronnie and the Renegades ushered Leo out, a solid second-pace finish was assured...
Fergie could fashion his 6th consecutive 20, while old #26 could aim for the Triple Crown. Even the recently-retired #14 had fleeting thoughts of a comeback, as evidenced by his mid-season pinch hitting appearance against 20-year-old Rich Gossage in the annual crosstown game for charity. Three 98 MPH fastballs from the Gosling sent Ernie back to permanent coaching status.
"Elder White! Look at the talent on those Cubs!" Harry Caray, KMOX Radio, 4/22/62
"And you have to wonder – What's the matter with Broglio?" Harry, KMOX, 5/24/64
The Maddux idea is just dumb
Just because he is a smart HOF pitcher doesn’t mean he can manage or GM. HOF pitcher does not equal good manager or GM.
Are the Braves lining up Tom Glavine next year to take over for Bobby Cox? I doubt it because they aren’t hung up on ex-Braves the way the Cubs fans are on ex-Cubs.
I don't think the idea is dumb at all.
It’s well known that, when he wasn’t pitching, Maddux would sit in the dugout and analyze the game in progress and make strategic suggestions. He’s not just an ex-Cub, he’s a brilliant baseball mind. If he’s open to being a manager right now, why not?
Having said that, if the Cubs were to fire Lou or Lou were to suddenly retire, I think I’d prefer to see Alan Trammell take over as manager with Sandberg as his bench coach. The “interim” thing doesn’t bother me that much. This season is already starting to feel like a transitional one. Being bench coach would be a great opportunity for Ryno to get some big league experience. Ultimately, I’d like to see Sandberg as manager with Maddux as the bench coach.
Wow
Chaos sets in early this season, with even Al advocating minor demolition now. The Z bullpen fix had a very limited lifetime. The Starlin call-up fix was only good for three games, apparently.
I missed the part of the game yesterday that is under discussion, because I had to go pick up my daughter. It seems that Lou does not trust the bullpen right now. It is not hard to understand why — as someone pointed out, the 5-pitch walk that Marshall surrendered the day before was probably fresh in his mind. I can hardly wait for my annual trip back to Springfield (hometown) this year, to hear the Cardinal fans cackling about all of our great quick fixes. Maybe by then we will have made major league history by getting a rotisserie-league manager to replace Lou.
"Wait, are you saying I'm a sunshine-pumping, koolaid-drinking, Soriano-loving, rainbow-rising, unicorn-riding, double-clutching, Sweet Lou-backing, Hendry-supporting, hey hey whaddya saying, Cubs are going all the waying, glass is overflowing, Rothschild is all-knowing, Cubs fan? - ballhawk
Recent Cubs managerial history suggests Lou will be around for a while
unless the Cubs reach new levels of underachievement.
2010
Lou Pinella: 32 games 14-18 0.438
2006
Dusty Baker: 162 games 66-96 0.407 Contract not renewed
2002
Don Baylor: 83 games 34-49 0.410 Fired during season
1999
Jim Riggleman: 162 games 67-95 0.414 Fired at end of season
There are more examples but the points I want to make are:
1. Management will give the manager wide latitude to right a sinking ship. I don’t think Lou has Durocher-like personality traits that irritate management like Leo did, which led to Durocher’s dismisal.
2. Lou is not in danger unless the Cubs go close to or below 0.400.
3. Pinella, Baker & Riggleman brought the team to the postseason. Baylor did not and was fired after 83 games.
4. Pinella has 3 winning seasons out of 4 as manager, Baker 2 out of 4, Riggleman had 2 out of 5, and Baylor 1 of 3 years as manager. Why fire a manager with previous proven success?
5. The Cubs finished first in their division 2 out 4 years under Pinella and once under Baker, never under Baylor or Riggleman.
Yesterday’s game may have pissed a lot of people off but don’t expect Pinella to go away anytime soon because of it.
Just Don't Renew Lou's Contract
I say that Lou stays until the end of the season and doesn’t have his contract renewed. Then, Sandberg gets the job for 2011. I don’t believe the Ricketts are going to re-sign D-Lee or Lilly because the Ricketts are strapped for cash. The new owners aren’t interested in eating a lot of money on contracts.
"The big possums walk late." - Harry Caray
i agree something has to be done. but the way i see it going is. Sandberg becomes manager maddux takes over jim hendry’s job. We fire all coaches but trammel andrudy then fill in with whatever is avalible. because as much as the lossing is lou’s fault the bad pitching is larry’s . I mean isnt his job to make sure that zambrno figures it out again not just sit back and watch has he gets sent to the pen.
by Adam Tarasievich on May 10, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
I love Maddux but just because he’s smart at baseball doesn’t mean he’d make a good GM.
Also I dont think hes interested in a FT baseball job right now. If he was he’d have more of a role with the Cubs already.
From everything I heard about him he wants to enjoy this time as a husband and father as well as keep his nose in the game. His current job is great for that.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on May 10, 2010 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I like runoff as manager
Maddux as pitching coach, and go really outside the box and hire grace as hitting or bench coach!
by Notsnud on May 10, 2010 12:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well the drunken escapades of our team would go up with Grace involved.
Why don’t we just hire former Sandberg teammates for everything regardless of their abilities or history in the game since retring.
How about Doug Dascenzo for bench coach who has managed in the minors?
Shawon Dunston for a role who has worked for the Giants.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on May 10, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
When I think of Maddux...
I think of LaRussa. Ever since he was put on the payroll, it has been on my mind. Not sure he would take it, but I think it would be a great move (cannot be worse than where we are). But, Hendry needs to go too. What this club needs is plate discipline and better defense (including pitching). We must lead the league in one pitch at bats.
Steve Stone please
The man’s ego rubs me the wrong way, but the man’s a baseball genius. Why he only announces ball games is beyond me.
The answer is...
… he’s really good at announcing baseball games. I have said this over and over and over and over, but I will repeat it again:
The fact that someone is good at announcing baseball games, does not necessarily translate into the skill to manage 25 men in a clubhouse, or negotiate contracts in an office. They are different skillsets.
Steve Stone is 63 years old. If he had any ability to be a field manager or general manager, he’d have been offered such a position long ago. It ain’t happening, and shouldn’t.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And
And he’s wanted to be a GM since retiring from being a player. Not one team wanted him to be in 30 years.
Why should the Cubs do it?
I also think he wanted to be GM right away not work his way up.
Formerly known as cubstoseriesby100. Thanks Al for letting me change my outdated screenname.
by puckishcubsfan on May 10, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
hahahhah
I love Marian Hossa and Patrick Kane in totally manly ways. Kinda.
"I’m happy. Whoo!"~ Starlin Castro on being called up to the Bigs.
by jesus christos on May 10, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bleed Cubbie Blue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Recent Stories in Chicago Cubs Game Threads
Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges
Baseball Nation Recent Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
- Keeping good company: Albert Pujols becomes fourth-youngest player to hit 450 home runs
